Bitcoin Forum

https://youtu.be/pSbSKGDypPY

The above video shows that by buying Bitcoin one is selling ownership of something and buying ownership of nothing. This is because Bitcoin is just a fancy name for changed digits, and the fact is that something cannot appear or disappear by changing digits. Since Bitcoin is the first time in human history that people voluntarily and massively give up something to become the owners of absolutely and literally nothing, this makes Bitcoin the most ridiculous invention ever made.

In short:
Fiat is based on debt, Bitcoin is based on trust.
I know what I prefer!

Ponzi is also based on trust. So?

That wall of text could work against all of those that do not really understand bitcoin or why it exist, but you are not going to convince anyone in the forum with that logic, if you do not feel comfortable investing in bitcoin because to you it has no value then you do not have to do it, invest in all of those things that you think are real and in 20 years we will see who was right.

You get something extremely important out of your rant, which literally everything costs nothing, we usually give price to the things we want, for example, why certain airplane tickets cost more in season than out of season?, so it is with other events and other temporary items, things have the value that we give them

All value is based on that which people attribute to it, there is no such thing as intrinsic value. If you're dying of thirst then suddenly a bottle of water at $100 looks like a great deal, otherwise you might think paying $5 for it is a rip off. Perception is everything.

And what happens when someone pays for your goods with a card? A third party payment processor logs the transaction on their servers and messages your bank that it took place. You don't get any physical item, you don't get money. Only thing that changes are some digits on a privately own mainframe. How is that different from the blockchain? Let's start by saying that blockchain cannot be changed or erased, but the mainframe can. Blockchain can't go bankrupt, but both the payment processor and your bank can. Even your country that issues cash (that you aren't getting for that transaction because it was digital) can go bankrupt.
I'll take my coins, thank you.

First of all, all your long essay proves you don't know the main reason for the existence of Bitcoin. I think you should read the Bitcoin Whitepaper and then watch the movie "Dope" and then read the article about the woman who paid her workers with Bitcoin and then read the tweets of Craig wright (not his supporter bit he's got sound arguments about the use case of Bitcoin).
All your argument is based on trading (and that's not the absolute Bitcoin purpose).

Bitcoin is based neither on debt nor on trust, What are you noobs talking about? :D

Bitcoin is based on work, the only source of value. Right now the only fair trade in the globe is trading goods and services for bitcoin, trading a product of work with another product of work, pretty much like old good days when gold and silver were being used as medium of exchange.

I didn't bother reading your op, just the few first lines, you have no clue, instead of wasting your time typing nonsense in gibberish, try catching-up with literature and science related to monetary systems and economics.

^ FAIL
when you sell a car for FIAT. you dont own FIAT. you hold FIAT. but the FIAT is not yours.
its under licence by a government. they can take it from you without notice. they can freeze accounts they can tax it. they can do what they like, because its theirs.

with bitcoin you own the private key that secures that you have full ownership control of the bitcoin linked to the private key

i dare you to have a bitcoin private key and a bank account. and truly ask yourself. who controls what
go on try to move your fiat out of an ATM for more than $500 amount.

try spending a substantial amount ($10k) fiat via a bank account without the bank asking questions.
you do not own FIAT. they are just letting you handle it under their licence terms

try crossing a state/country border with $10k see how much FIAT you get to own without question

---

as for saying bitcoin is a nothing value.

bitcoin has a cost value.
im not talking about speculative price of the volatile market. im talking about the underlying value. the cost of its creation.

PoS coins for instance have no underlying value. as the underlying cost is zero. but bitcoin does have a underlying value.
you might wanna research that.

FIAT (not talking about market rate of loaves it would buy or rate compared to other currencies on forex) fiats underlying value is of the cost in its creation too. which is things like yes the debt (mortgage/credit agreement) that created the promissory note. but also the minimum wage laws that value a $7.50 as being an hours worth of sweat labour

.. one thing i do find funny.
a patent /copyright is just an idea. yet you argue people do have ownership of something. even if its just an idea.. but then try to say bitcoin idea is not real........ pick a hypocrisy and stick with it. you cant be right on both sides of a table especialy if a patent/copyright may not even come with any creation cost

I was watching a series about debt collectors in the UK the other day, and they knocked on the door of one lady asking that she cleared the debt right away or they'd start removing goods. She asked them to wait and went to the bank. Came back minutes later saying that her withdrawal attempt triggered some scam alerts in the bank. She had to call the police to her home, to confirm the paperwork the bailiffs had, go with her back to the bank and vouch that it's not a scam. Even when she did all of it they didn't allow her to withdraw the full amount! And the best part is that she was only asking for £10k of her own money, deposited on a personal account.

"cant pay we will take it away"
shows how much she "owns" if people can just come in and take thing from her(bailiffs)
show how much she "owns" if people can refuse to give her it(banks)

id love to see a bailiff try to acquire someones bitcoins. or a bank try to freeze a persons private key.. oh wait they cant. because THEY dont own it.. only you do

I'm guessing that's what the 0x team had in mind - having a tokenized "representation" of clear ownership of those valuable possessions, pared with decentralized exchanges to cost near-nothing to exchange them.

I think OP has some misunderstanding or lack of understanding about bitcoin in general or the cryptocurrency. There has been numerous references in the net about the argument why btc or other p2p is much better than Fiat.

Pessimistic person sees a glass half filled with water as "half empty" and optimistic sees it as "half filled. The choice is ours on which side we want to be. While I respect your views as an individual, I don't share your pessimism at the same time.

pessimistic person sees a half empty glass.........
optimistic person sees its half filled glass......
realist person sees its not empty, and even if it was. atleast they have a glass
:D

What you are saying is like not until other assets are liquidated to Fiat all of them have zero value in your point of view. Stocks, Gold, Silver, and Gas for you does not have any value not until those owner of the assets have sold it to Fiat. Well of course your next possible argument will be they are different as their value is determined by other people pricing them and it is called "demand". Well to tell you the truth cryptocurrencies also work that way their are people who are determining prices in the buy side always no matter if this cryptos only exist in 1s and 0s these people are putting a value into it.

While you are entitled to your opinion, there is much sense in it to the investors promoters and programmers in the bitcoin business and crypto currency at large. I don't need to understand what happens when the bank I use tell me that I have just received an alert that my bank account has been credited. I don't see how the money moves but that's what actually happens. Believe what you choose to believe. Cheers fella!

Whole your reasoning is flawed. If you buying gold, you trade goods, services or fiat currencies for it. You actually bought nothing, couple atoms dig up from dirt without value except people agreed to gold is valuable. Nothing else.
In Bitcoin you are owner of digital asset with limited availability (12 000 000). Gold has infinite amount out there so it inflate.

We can share arguments on and on but in the end, if you really understand invention and revolution, what bitcoin trully is, you wouldn't write things like that.

Well, now it is. The inception of derivatives and other financial products built on cryptocurrencies took away one thing the value of BTC was based on - its limited supply. Look at Cryptocompare BTC market data. About 1/3 of the trading volume comes from BitMex exchange, which is actually trading a derivative called a "perpetual contract", instead of actual BTC. Not one spot trading exchange can come even remotely close with their volumes to BitMex. With the 200x leverage what BitMex offers for trading, it virtually expands BTC supply to 200 times. Plus CBOE and CME futures, and such. The more of these financial products based upon cryptocurrencies are being created, the less scarce blockchain based coins will become. The whole cryptomarket works now exactly like the fractional reserve banking, where the real money (reserves) created by the central banks, make only a fraction (about 5%) of the total money supply, the rest of 95% is just private banking sector created IOU contracts called credit, built upon the reserves.

It looks like a troll post. If you come to a Bitcoin forum to say that Bitcoin is worthless you won't be taken seriously. That's how it is. You could argue with us that it's not the best solution or that it has its flaws but saying that it's worth nothing and that it doesn't exist is plain stupid. Do you do that with all the things you don't like? Look for a thematic forum full of people that like it and tell them they're stupid to do so?

Very short answer to your whole theory:
1. Even those paper/debt certificate that you are claiming to own can be worthless as in case of Zimbabwe.
2. Bitcoin can be redeemed any day for those paper/debt certificate.


And Bitcoin is one of the advance technological product and you need to read below to understand this.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5066766.msg

haha it's true this is amazing they believe something that is not visible and I also believe it. but I think this is not unreasonable this is technology not an object so I think it's normal if a lot of people invest

It seems that the reasoning and the futility and insecurity of cryptocurrency will always go. The author of this topic is largely right if you look at cryptocurrency from the point of view of classical economics. Yes, the cryptocurrency from the point of view of this worldview, this is a financial bubble and this, in principle, is true. Cryptocurrency is not supported by anything and is based on trust. However, as long as such trust exists, it brings substantial benefits to its owners. Therefore, when using cryptocurrency, it is necessary to take into account possible risks and always be prepared for the fact that after a certain short time, individual coins and tokens, and with a big panic, the whole cryptocurrency may disappear. Although this is unlikely, this possibility cannot be completely excluded. In cryptocurrency, you can make good money, but you need to be watchful.  For our solutions in cryptocurrency, we alone are financially responsible.

Cryptocurrency is not devoid of meaning. This is technology and it works. Until. While many believe in it, because this technology is based on trust. Any business must operate with a certain degree of trust. Without trust it is impossible to enter into agreements and have a profit. However, any other business is material. Cryptocurrency is almost entirely a virtual world, and we only commit transactions using material methods. All this is possible, because in the cryptocurrency economy, finance, technology are implicated on trust and logic. Cryptocurrency for those who can and knows how to take risks.

Get your f#$% facts in order, when you make false statements like this!

Bitcoin is definately not the first instance where people pay fiat currencies for something that are written in code. People have been buying virtual property in online games and also skins and add-ons for in-game items for years.

You can even buy in-game tokens or virtual currencies for online games and all of this is just some entry on a digital ledger or a piece of code. <Software>

Do not Cherry pick a specific incident to suite your hidden agenda.  >:(

No body is begging you to stay in bitcoin investment. if you claim is the most insane invention then you should not worry making this public and save your self the trouble of being in this forum. You can leave this very minute and nobody would coax you to come back. The funny thing is that you will be running back here when the bull run begins hahahah...Such people always do lol

In some aspects you can right but I would disagree that Bitcoin is really nothing well for as long as there will be people who believe in its value then it is valuable and this is the case with anything that can be traded even with gold...if people one day will decide that they don't want to get involved with gold anymore then it can be worthless and I think this can be the same thing with fiat money. This is the same principle with the law of supply and demand and we witnessed this in action with so many failed projects. Now, if you can convinced majority of the Bitcoin hodlers to shift to your conviction then soon Bitcoin might be back to ground zero. And starting on this forum can be a good practice.

The discovery of bitcoin is the most impressive thing, with a belief system that all trades can be smooth. Online by researching all kinds of things that waste time, this is not effective. In the case of crypto trading, it has many features that are able to provide investors with interest. Trust is expensive and this is highly valued.

Wow do you get paid to post this on the forum? Sorry friend its not going to work on anyone on here ,bitcoin have gain ground and trust of almost all humans on eath ,posting that now its too late ,this is something you should have posted in 2010 maybe it would have work on some ? Cmon even western union is looking forward to making use of cryptocurrency in their system, sorry pal

Of course that "all trades can be smooth" since you are trading the ownership of nothing. 

They get something out of it though, they can buy back when price dips after this post. The most nonsensical invention is worth more than $3000, anyone in the right mind would think its nonsensical is obviously talking shit. You don't even need to be technical here with the economic terms. Bitcoin will be worth more than $20k later on but these guys will remain thinking its not useful.  :D

Well, given $64.8 billion in the accounts of Madoff's 4,800 clients it follows that Bernie Madoff's ponzi invention was "worth" more than $13 million per client, and that's way more than $3000. So, anyone who think Madoff's invention is "nonsensical" is talking shit. Right?

I was thinking the same or that maybe this thread was created to open discussion
and draw in the people who can argue bitcoins existence and who truly have an
understanding of crypto and economics and by that way the OP is showing the non
believers or doubters the viability of bitcoin through other members posts.......

But then the OP's last post discounts my idea, they really dont get it.



You cannot compare bitcoin to a ponzi scheme, how many times has this been
explained, can you not really understand this? Because 99% of people on this
forum can make the difference.

You need to go and read Franky1's first post!

Why not? Ponzi is ownership of nothing the same as Bitcoin. So they are completely the same in that sense.

In fact, in our world there are no useless things as the creation of one technology leads to the creation of another and bitcoin is an example. Bitcoin start chain industry which is developing rapidly. I do not believe that bitcoin is useless.

Bitcoin in itself is useless as it represents the ownership of nothing. On the other hand, Bitcoin industry is not useless since it generates enormous profits for the exchanges, miners,  developers, ICO teams, wallet providers, etc. All of them benefit greatly from the game where greater fools transfer the ownership of nothing from one address to another. But this game will ultimately end as you can fool some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can not fool all of the people all of the time.

Gold isn't infinite. Nothing is truly infinite except maybe the universe. Gold is actually relatively finite compared to most things. It takes time for more gold to be produced over millions of years.

He chooses the posts that he finds easy to argue with and only answers those. Of course he doesn't get it, he wants you to keep playing his game where you say it's not a ponzi, he ignores your arguments and says it is a ponzi. He made this thread to blow off steam and you're helping him do it.

http://weeklystyles.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Arguing-with-an-Idiot-is-Like-Playing-chess-with-a-Pigeon-Best-Motivational-Quotes.jpg

A) The government has monopoly on force so it can use coercion to take your life, freedom and property from you. In the same way, it can take your dollars from you. So? What that has to do with the fact that dollars represent the ownership of certificates of borrowers' debt while bitcoin represents the ownership of nothing?

B) Value is a subjective concept that also has nothing to do with the fact menioned under A). Further, you cannot derive value from cost.  Cost is the amount or equivalent paid or charged. If you paid 5,000 dollars to buy Bitcoin or spent a large amount of electricity to mine one, Bitcoin is still the ownership of nothing. IOWs, there is nothing outside the blockchain that you become the owner of. You simply gave your dollars for free or waste your electricity. If you see "value" in something like that, that's your subjective thing. In reality, this is irrational behaviour.

C) Patent is not an idea, but right of the owner to exclude others from making, using, selling, and importing an invention for a limited period of time.

fxsurfer,
Ever heard of fractional reserve banking?

It is strange to call bitcoin a fraud. You will see how many people were able to get rich with the help of bitcoin. That's one. Secondly, we cant say that bitcoin is an empty space, because in the world there are already several places where you can pay bitcoin. This suggests that bitcoin is developing. If he was a fraud, he wouldn't have existed for so long.

Can you please make an argument?

You want a free lesson in economics on a bitcoin chat board?
Your points simplified:
Banks don’t keep your money, they only have to keep a fraction of it, then they lend out the rest.
No problem, right? Because in the US our deposits are insured by the government.
-A government that is trillions of dollars in debt and our deposits are backed for a reason: because there were actual times historically when people couldn’t get their money out of banks.

And fiat is a medium of exchange with the US dollar being backed by nothing but “the full faith and credit of the US government” since it was taken off the gold standard in 1971---never mind how much less you can buy with that dollar every year since its inception.

Everything’s market value is worth what a willing and able buyer believes it to be and at this moment bitcoin is worth about $3753. Per coin whether you agree or not.


If you don’t understand the concept of intangible assets AND you are posting your assertion on a chat board, on the internet (just worthless strings of code): what can anyone tell you?

You seem to have the desire to know about banking, economics ect.
Do some reading: depressions/recessions, Adam Smith, Keynes, Milton Friedman, hell… read Karl Marx or Google.

Ok, so what that has to do with topic at hand?

What do some historical or present-day problems with dollar debt certificates have to do with the fact that they represent the ownership of borrowers' loan debt - i.e. something, while bitcoin represents the ownership of nothing?

Did you even read the opening post?

Yes I did, apparently you don't see the correlations so we're done. Good luck.

Sorry but there is no correlation between certificates of loan debt and numerical marks in the blockchain that represent nothing. I cannot see something that does not exist.

yes, because the one who created bitcoin doesn't know what he created he created for his needs he doesn't know the benefits so humans don't know what bitcoin is before it has become soaring in the world

Bitcoin was created because the founder satoshi wants to make peer to peer payment system.
He would use bitcoin as the peer to peer currency, so it is not a 'nonsense invention', it is make sense for me.
But i still wonder about the value of btc, why it's value is so expensive.

Never new that nothing could at one point cost 20k$ . We are living in a digital age my friend , all of our time is spent on the internet and most of our daily life matters are run through it.  A car for example is given that value because of the prices of its parts with the commision of the company , same goes for for bitcoin , many computing power goes into mining a bitcoin thus give it a price of the electricity and the time of the miner , yes it might be overpriced but atleast it's something .

Well said. I honestly did not have the patience to read through the wall of text, but understood the gist of it and you provided the perfect response. I watched the movie that you mentioned recently and had a blast.

So many vendors are already using Bitcoin on a regular basis, but they never advertise their dealings which is the reason so many people like op think that Bitcoin is useless while the reverse is actually true.

Bitcoin is leading a new generation of payment methods whether anyone likes it or not even though its value will continue fluctuating on a regular basis.

Payment is the transfer of something from one party to another for goods or services. Payment is not the transfer of nothing(the ownership of nothing - bitcoin).  And transferring nothing, is indeed a 'nonsense invention'. Regarding value, it's a subjective concept. Throughout history, people saw "value" in many investment scams and thus wasted a lot of money for their subjective concepts. Eight years ago, a programmer saw value of two Papa John’s pizzas in 10,000 bitcoins. A year ago, people saw value of a brand new car in 1 bitcoin. So, this thing is entirely subjective. But, it cannot change the objective fact of bitcoin being the ownership of nothing and hence a 'nonsense invention'.

Well, if you give someone your 20K$ car for free  - as a gift,  and then mark this event with a numerical symbol in some database, that doesn't mean this numerical symbol costs 20k$. Same goes for bitcoin.

I think bitcoin is not a discovery, but someone's creation, so that they know that someone's creation can develop. but indeed the fact that bitcoin is able to grow rapidly, because the longer the bitcoin enthusiasts are already quite a lot, to the point that sometimes we cannot count them.

Exactly, Bitcoin was not discovered but invented and with a purpose. But some didn't bother to get informed first before they start to write nonsense.
So far I have learned that in periods when price is low many users are so frustrated and angry that such posts with not much sense appear. First of all they show how they don't know anything about Bitcoin, how it's functioning or any other basics so there is no point in explaining.

 ??? You people really live in a fantasy world. Bitcoin is neither discovery nor creation. Bitcoin is a fancy name for process of increasing or decreasing values in a database. You cannot call this trivial process a creation or discovery, it's nonsensical.

Value of a service or an asset is only determined by people. People tend to give more value the things that are useful, benefitable or promising. I think that cryptocurrencies have a potential to make our life easier and they offer many opportunities. I don't say cryptocurrencies are perfect and there are many things to criticize. Since cryptocurrencies are not a part of traditional market or economies, people like you may think that they have right to look down cryptocurrencies. But you don't have this right.

Regardless of the invention or not, Bitcoin has changed the financial system now to be more transparent, maybe it will still need a long process to be perfect.

its still called a creation and invention because the computer and internet were both invented by genius investors and eventually satoshi also created a new payment system called cryptocurrency  .  we cant call it nonsense because both technology are verry helpful to humans   .  whats nonsense is the hater and bashers that keeps on creating nonsensical thread in order to spread lies and fuds   .   well thanks to them because crypto can make more noise and can be easily recognize by the netizens   . 

I don't think the existence of bitcoin is meaningless. The main thing for what it is created-to change the existing financial system and to secure it. If the whole world accepts digital currency it will be very useful for all of us.

And I believe that bitcoin is one of the most useful inventions of the 21st century. The main thing now is to start using it correctly, not just as an investment tool. If you use it for its intended purpose, it will become clear all the benefits and uniqueness of bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general.

By what logic is altering and storing digits into the database the most useful inventions of the 21st century? Are you kidding?

How is manipulating digits related to financial system? How is trading goods, services or fiat currencies for nothing useful?

Bitcoin cannot be a payment system in principle, since a payment is the transfer of SOMETHING from one party to another, and not a process of changing digits. Something cannot appear or disappear by changing digits.

I think there is no invention will not came out in the future like Bitcoin because we are getting huge income from this invention and lots of people will be a millionaire by using this method so I appreciate accept Bitcoin is the toughest invention that made in this world.

Except that's precisely how the money in your bank account works.  The entire global economy is built on something appearing from nothing.  Try again.

Wrong. The money in bank account is created out of loan contract and collateral. Watch the video.

No, you are getting huge income from other people's investments. Bitcoin is just a fancy name for digits - i.e. mathematical abstractions. Abstractions cannot generate income.

The interest of majority is to gain some profit. Most of the people even do not care what bitcoin is, the only thing that they care is a possibility to be richer tomorrow than they are today. In theory it can sound ridiculous but I believe that there are people that gain lots of fortune and for them, investing in something called bitcoin turn to be the best investment of their life.

You don't need collateral to have an overdraft.  New fiat digits are always on hand to appear out of nowhere if they're needed.  Any excuse will do.  And it has become wholly reckless.

You can claim it's all based on the ownership of "debt certificates", but in the grand scheme of things, the system can't cope with the entire debt being paid back.  If that happened, there wouldn't be enough "money" (read: debt) left in the economy for it to function.  What's the sense in having ownership of a debt that can never be repaid without destroying the economy?  Hence the need to create ever-increasing quantities of "money" (debt) from nothing.  You can describe it a loan contract to make it appear as something rational, but it's still ridiculous in practice.  If the average person had even the slightest idea about how the banking system really worked, they'd be far more skeptical of it.

Bitcoin solves this insanity.  It proves beyond doubt that you don't need debt for an economy to function.  Debt may have some advantages, but it has enough disadvantages that people would naturally want an alternative.  And that's precisely what Bitcoin gives them, along with numerous other benefits like privacy and freedom.  Call it "nothing" all you like.  It's everything to some people.

In fact, there are different opinions about what bitcoin can be attributed to. Someone considers it a currency, someone considers it investment instrument and someone equates it with gold. But to call bitcoin an empty place is wrong, I believe. If he has any value, it means something.

Digital currency isn't a joke and it have a market value just like of bitcoin.  I know many were still doubts about these and exactly they don't know anything about it.
We are using digital form of payment before bitcoin's creation just like ATM and we are integrated into it.
Bitcoin doesn't have value for those people who only think nega but for us,  it is over valued.

You have two groups of people - those willing to borrow goods and services and those willing to lend goods and services. Fiat currencies are instruments that connect these two groups. Plain and simple. Eventual problems with these instruments have nothing to do with Bitcoin. Bitcoin is not lending your goods or services to miners  - Bitcoin is giving your goods and services for digit alteration. So, given your logic, the solution for the problems that occur with instruments that enable borrowing and lending goods and services, is to give your goods and services for free. Are you serious or are you joking?

Definitely yes! It is the most useful and valuable invention of millenials. We just do not know its real use because we made it for profits. But I assure that later on, all of us will give thanks to Satoshi Nakamoto because our life becomes good and easy. All of things can be bought all around the world without any interference specially, the legal one. And lastly, for the world to become one. It is because of cryptocurrency which made by satoshi.

I diagree with you that bitcoin is the most ridiculous invention ever made in recent times.
When we talk about bitcoin, we are talking about the blockchain technology.
Besides, you can't judge the invention of bitcoin using the prevailing market conditions, as a matter of fact , bitcoin is still at it's early developmental stahlge and so there are still much rooms for improvement.
Blockchain technology has been adjudged the biggest technology invented in recent times.

If you're certain that's the logic, why not take this user up on their generous offer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096377.msg49196769#msg49196769)?  You're getting something for nothing then, right?

your whole problem which is obvious from your posts here is that you are too caught up in only one way (government printing limitless money as they please and fully control everything) that you are having a very hard time accepting the fact that it is not the only way to have a "currency". in fact it is not even the first method of creating a currency. it was introduced recently and was widely accepted everywhere because a group could take the whole power in their hands.

If I had Bitcoin('nothing'), why would I sell it for $1 if there are 'greater fools' who will pay $3.5K USD for 'nothing'? The fact that Bitcoin is ownership of nothing doesn't mean I am stupid.

Your post is "is the most nonsensical invention in human history"... after the finantial crisis of 2008, there is no doubt that social order needed a change urgently. We shouldt depend that much on banks and goverments.. that was pretty clear in the last decade! thanks God we got BTC today!

The same goes with fiat currencies bud! You are giving up ownership of some thing to get ownership of bits of paper.
The value of money is the same, the thing is that cash is here replaced by cryptocurrency.
If this makes the invention of bitcoin ridiculous then I wonder how ridiculous would it be to use fiat currency. We can't
I believe I have made the point and comparison clear.

yes nothing is ridiculous, bitcoin is the greatest invention in my opinion and best in currency records, bitcoin is able to change people's lives quickly, yes even though it's a lot of obstacles about falling prices and bad market conditions. but it is normal and a risk that we must accept.

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I believed that Bitcoin helped a lot of community many years ago, and many companies too also accepted it as ode of payment to their business as well. So the topic in the above was just a kind of FUD only. I am very sure also that a lot of people who are bitcoin fanatic was also thankful to Mr. Satoshi Nakamoto for inventing this virtual currendcy which is Bitcoin including myself too.

I think I saw some other threads of this OP get locked by a mod.
It's not difficult to notice he's trolling anc calling it nothing in your face to make you try to persuade him and then he'll come and shove it back at you with a grin.
Let this thread die in peace!

Bitcoin is an asset backing up a technology at the end, even if not in the technical way but it is in the practical one.

In the future will be evident, that Bitcoin and especially the technology behind it are one of the greatest inventions of our generation. It just take a bit of imagination and the right people to make it happen.

The revolution started my friend.

This video was posted here like a week ago in another post. In the video everything has sense and looks logically ingldeed. But the point is that actually nobody sell their something per bitcoin. The most of people just buy bitcoin per fiat and earn money on trading. Bitcoin's price is so unstable that for the most of users it became a tool of money making. So if everyone will look a wide picture they will see that the video is another haters work.

Well that is your opinion and you can keep it to yourself. More to the point if you don't believe in bitcoin I am sure nobody has asked you to invest into it. Don't forget it is out of bitcoin that the blockchain technology has come to solve so many issues in the financial industry. At least you can be greatful for such an invention other than just slamming it down in such a manner. >:(

So, you think that you can change the social order by changing digits in a database and by giving your possessions for free? Interesting.

Watch the video. Fiat currencies are ownership of something. They are ownership of debt certificates that grant their holders the right to goods, services or collateral of private individuals and companies that were granted loans. Bitcoin on the other hand is ownership of nothing, since it is just a fancy name for changed digits.

you call Bitcoin "Ridiculous" and you advertise Bitcoin Mixing Service at your footer! - hypocrite!

This isn't really the case. The whole point is that you do own something and because people see it as having value that's what gives it its price, in other words people see it as worth x number of dollars. Just because it is in digital form does not mean you don't own it. You don't need to physically have something to own it.

I think you really don't know what is bitcoin and how it is very beneficial to the people.If bitcoin was just a none value investment,then i think it would not survived all its struggles for 10 long years.It may have died earlier when only few people have known it before.But what you say today is your own point of view and so we don't have the right to change your mindset.Atleast you know that not all of here have the same thoughts like yours.

Its very funny for people to think this way. If you don't  understand why bitcoin and blockchain was development, please don't make and share any ridiculous comments about this technology. People need to learn how to appreciate new ideas and technologies  than spreading anything due to their ignorance .

I completely disagree. It's a digital innovation and people accepted all forms of digital products. Movies and games does not have physical copy anymore. We also accepted commercial payment services. And also gamers even buy items or just to boost their characters. They don't physically own it but it proved that it has value because it is working just like btc.

Digital innovation?  ??? Changing and storing digits into a database is innovation? Distributed storing of digits maybe, but what that has to do with the fact that digits themselves are ownership of nothing and that trading your possessions for nothing is ridiculous?

If I am the owner of Western Union or Moneygram I would really say that its ridiculous, its killing the remittance business. Imagine if I am going to send $280 USD worth of BTC, it will cost me less than $0.50 but if I use Western Union, a $280 USD money transfer will cost $11. Imagine $11 versus $0.50. that's a difference of 2,100%

or ridiculously amazing because banks right now were threaten by the invention of the bitcoin, with this, transfer of money from any place has become so easy and cheap, unemployed people were getting and earning a right amount of money that involves blockchain technology.

If you send a selfie to your friend, via e-mail system for e.g.  this is also cheap. Point? Sending Bitcoin is cheap because Bitcoin is just a series digits. Digits are mathematical abstraction, i.e. ownership of nothing and why would such transfer be expensive. But when you have to transfer the ownership of something, i.e. dollars - which are certificates of debt that have loans contracts, collaterals and banks behind them, then of course that transferring something like that is costly. It's pretty simple. You cannot compare sending digits and sending money.

Well it depends when bitcoin was hitting the all time high transaction fees were very high.  People were paying $20 or higher to send a transaction.  I do hate the central banking system but transfers were always very cheap for me or free if I did an ACH transfer.  It is more about decentralization than low transaction fees in my opinion.

Your opinion is highly appreciated and I really doubt your intelligence regarding bitcoin and the blockchain. When email was introduced they never thought that this will revolutionize the way they do business all over the world. The internet is still at a young age compared to the technologies invented in the first centuries. Anyway nice to read your opinion and I think I will do more research on bitcoin and the blockchain as what it will become in the next decade.

Unfortunately, you think very shallowly.Imagine that in your country where you live there was a default and the national currency completely ceased to have any value?If you want to buy a product or service with a resident of another country, offering to pay in your own currency.Do you think such a deal will happen?The obvious answer is no.Bitcoin is a completely different currency that has no inflation and its value grows every day.And a bitcoin transaction will always happen.

I won't use the word ridiculous but It is the most revolutionary invention in the world and of course it is a radical invention but no one can say buying bitcoin will end with nothing because even bitcoin's are not tangible unlike fiat currencies still there is a higher value for a bitcoin than a dollar or any other major currency in the world which was created by people due to its high potentiality and rareness so it can be considered as a unique invention in both technological and financial fields 

Bitcoin is not a currency, but a series of digits or mathematical symbols in a database. Inflation is a sustained increase in the general price level of goods and services in an economy over a period of time. Price is the quantity of payment or compensation given by one party to another in return for one unit of goods or services. A payment is the trade of something from one party to another for goods, or services, or to fulfill a legal obligation. By changing digits you cannot create something. Thus, Bitcoin has nothing to do with payment, price or inflation, and you live in a fantasy world.

I already asked this question, but nobody answered. So, I'm gonna ask it again: what is revolutionary and innovative in the process of changing and storing digits? Bitcoin is just a fancy name for changed digits. How is this the most revolutionary invention in the world? What that has to do with finance?

They comment on unknown things. Or have experienced disappointment because of failure and losing a lot when investing in bitcoin. Thinking is more realistic, because bitcoin is digital money that can really be used as a means of payment, investment or trade.

This already happen in IRAN where their currencies went too low in values due to US sections, due to which value of bitcoin sky rocketed there. People rushed to convert their dying currencies into bitcoins.
Also when the world will face Economic crisis, everyone will buy bitcoins and that is the real currency for the future time.

Bitcoin is not just worthless because is exist in digit because it a mathematical computer coding and at that it will have it worth at the end because the bitcoin network have it own worth and even if it dollars rate reduced to nothing the real quantity still remains the same and once the worth rise again it will bounce back to it ever rising rate.

for me bitcoin is not a ridiculous discovery, if indeed bitcoin is ridiculous, why do you follow bitcoin. the current decline is very far from the increase first, but that doesn't mean you can arbitrarily think that bitcoin is a ridiculous invention. because bitcoin has so far developed and helped us. only now is there just an accident.

Yes its cheap . using online or the internet to send and recieve stuffs are more convinient and cheap  compare to the traditional systems  .  in the case of bitcoin , not all times we can send a transaction with a cheap cost because the fees are also dependent on its current value .

@nydiacaskey01 , if you are th owner local money remitance then you dont need to worry on crypto payments because many peeps will prefer your service as it is more easy and faster .  crypto are also hard to use to some peeps especially if they are older enough and not into the techy stuffs .

But trust is better than debt!
If you reason like this, then you can do nothing at all and trust nothing. It makes no sense.
I believe that Bitcoin is not just a fundamentally new cryptocurrency. I believe that this is the currency of the future, which will allow you to avoid inflation and many other problems of fiat currency!

Why do you know it is a technology that can change the financial sector, you have proof to prove this or what you say is just news, information that you read on different forums, it has nothing to authenticate. I don't know your answer to my question but I feel that you only have confidence in bitcoin, you believe in what's great about bitcoin that others say, bitcoin is the most ridiculous invention or a good technology that can change finance, no one knows about this, and this is not so important, we don't need to argue, as long as we know we can make money with it, that's enough

Still better than fiat.
Bitcoin allows you to control your Private keys, fiat doesn't. Digital fiats are way worse. They are centralized and in digital form too.
You have zero option with Fiat because it is always controlled by your banks.

Paper gold are the king of nothingness and the crooked bank continue to sell it.
My point is nothing wrong by turning money into paper gold, it is perfectly legit.

Bitcoin is not technology, but a fancy name for digits in the blockchain.The only purpose of technology behind it, is to change, store and secure these digits. Hence, this is just a database management system, and has nothing to do with finance.

And Charles Ponzi shares the same fame as Satoshi Nakamoto? Hmm! I think thst the OP sees Bitcoin as ridiculous is a misconstrued perception, though I admit he's entitled to his opinion. Cryptocurrency is the greatest invention of this century.

It is not Bitcoin what made a lot of people get rich, as Bitcoin is just means to get other people's possessions without giving anything in return. All investment scams have one thing in common: one gets rich by getting other people's possessions and giving NOTHING in return. And this is how a lot of people got rich in the case of Bitcoin. Denying that means that SOMETHING can appear by changing digits in a database(blockchain), and that is of course impossible.

That would mean that I first have to give SOMETHING(money, goods or services) for NOTHING (Bitcoin - which is the name given to changed digits in a database/blockchain). And I would never do something like that.

Both, Charles Ponzi and Satoshi Nakamoto created a system for getting other people's ownership of SOMETHING and giving ownership of NOTHING in return. In that sense, they share the same fame, it is just that people are ignorant of the above fact, because of the false public narrative and language manipulation where digit alterations in a database is called money or asset, which is nonsense of a high order.

this is a very surprising discovery from this field we can learn and look for a golden opportunity to get points of happiness in the future as long as we do it carefully and focus and be patient to hold it because besides that I also keep paying attention to the rising market situation down we can only be patient and try.

Well it depends on how you viewed it, how you see it.. maybe to some yes it is, but for some it is not, because no matter how ridiculous it is there are still people who believe on it, accept it and invest in it because they see in the past how people profit from it, and how bitcoin affect the ones' economy, people and community. It was made with a purpose and those who believe on it benefit from it as well.

You talk about Bitcoin like it is something, like it is an actual thing or even a person: "see it", "believe in it", "invest in it", "profit from it", "benefit from it". Unfortunately Bitcoin is just a fancy name for changed digits in a distributed spreadsheet, it is just a mathematical abstraction, and not an actual thing. Actual things don't appear or disappear by changing digits. People profited or benefited from other people's actual things like dollars, goods or services, not from changed spreadsheet digits. No one can benefit from that. No one can benefit from Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is coding in a computer network that is interrelated between users, so that data released or entered into the network are all known to each other, so there is no leakage or manipulation.
So from that the price created is not related to other fiat currencies such as the dollar, but on the basis of agreement on the results of buying and selling in the market that is in the network.
This is not something ridiculous, but a discovery that revolutionized the financial system that has been carried out for tens or hundreds of years.

Yes. Bitcoin is the most ridiculous invention ever.

But we must have to take it in a positive way, not in negative.

Actually, it has no value but just because of its characteristic to transact and trade online against fiat take itself much higher. Along with this feature, Bitcoin is based on a blockchain platform, this also takes bitcoin to uniqueness and transparency. But what about actual usage.

When comparing bitcoin with real world assets like real estates, Gold, Company shares and fiat currencies yes it seems like a ridiculous invention mainly because we are not use to it in the past and it is not tangible like other assets but it holds a similar or more value like any other commodity because investors and traders has given a value for it so doesn't matter it seems like ridiculous from the out side bitcoin have every feature to become a trading asset in a market

fiat is also based on trust,

bitcoin is based on attention,

if bitcoin loses attention it also loses value.

I think bitcoin is not a silly discovery, but a recent discovery for the future. Like a paper currency that is only a piece of paper but you believe it has value, isn't that still a paper.

Bitcoin is not a currency note it's a digital currency that's means it's based on technology.
If you know more about bitcoin you would know that it can be converted into other currency through exchanges

There is a difference between Ponzi trust and Bitcoin trust. People don't trust Ponzi, they just want to earn quick money so they take a risk, But bitcoin is different here, bitcoin was nothing, but by the all support and trust, bitcoin is the base of the crypto market and you know how big is bitcoin market! A good reader never feard to invest in crypto, rather they trust on it and they believe ina bright future with it.

This needs to be read out loud carefully. Truest statement on this forum in a while .... Glad someone else has a brain, isn't just a cheerleader for our destruction...

There is certainly a difference between Ponzi and Bitcoin

But it is not in the matters of trust. Ultimately, it all comes down to trust (or faith if you please), and it is the same with Ponzi as well as Bitcoin (and fiat, for that matter). People buy whatever they are buying in a Ponzi scheme believing that they will be able to profit even if they know beforehand that many will lose all. It is not particularly different with Bitcoin (if we discard the losing all part, of course). So the difference is necessarily elsewhere

But the process of buying and selling were continuing in the past, that made bitcoin valuable.
Peoples were buying with lower price, and selling with higher price in the market of exchange.
Therefore, the price of bitcoin was continuing to rise and sometimes get corrected back if too high.

although the most ridiculous discovery. but I was very impressed. with the bitcoin digital world. because the presence of Bitcoin is very helpful for my economic growth, bro. without bitcoin I certainly can't have a good enough economy like now.

Talk about the rationality of Bitcoin:

1. In terms of technical structure, it is a more advanced currency than currencies or precious metals that can play a monetary role. 0 loss, anonymous payment, and high unforgeability

2. To build a Bitcoin system, the fundamental reason lies in the social distrust of the government. The existence of Bitcoin is in fact a disguised deprivation of the government's Seigniorage and tax rights, making inflation technically impossible.



So bitcoin is the best tool and means for anarchists to realize. If we really want to discuss how to treat bitcoin, we need to solve the problem of how to treat the government first. It's a matter of buttocks deciding the head. Triggered from the perspective of government management of society, Bitcoin is just a Ponzi scheme; but from the perspective of free anarchists, Bitcoin is an epoch-making emergence.

It relied with people who can take the risk of buying it and holds waiting for the new price to earned, bitcoin gained the attentions and trust of people
who loves finding new ways of keeping an assets, for many people who didn't bothered to know invest they can easily say bad things as they don't
have any the ideas regarding to blockchain technology, they based bitcoin with how current movement happens but not the technology.

this is only a matter of different viewpoints, bitcoin varies in each person's view, some call it gold and some call it silliness like you. But when you think of old developments, you might think bitcoin is ridiculous but when you think of future developments, everything you think is ridiculous becomes real

I can't say that I disagree with this claim, conceptually

But to actually get there we need true, run-away acceptance of Bitcoin everywhere by virtually everyone and almost entire abandonment of fiat currencies by wide masses of population. It looks unlikely in the foreseeable future. So while Bitcoin may in fact be a challenge to governments and an epoch-making emergence from anarchists' point of view, the governments couldn't care less until and unless common people en masse start using it. In simple terms, what anarchists think and do is irrelevant simply because they are inconsequential

Do you actually buy into this idea? If yes, then you sound entirely ridiculous as well. How then do you classify fiat which was created out of nothing (mostly papers) yet human beings decided to give it value? If you can answer this, then you are right with your concept.

if you have no trust in Crypto or BTC, why are you using a crypto ad in your footer, mr. hypocrite?

And yet, here we are. Most of us as we writing here, believes that the idea of bitcoin is somewhat beneficial.
Fact is that most of the world's economy today is built on the premise of changing digits. Without a doubt such mechanism is beneficial but one question remains, for whom? Ordinary citizen that will try to "change the digits" in his favour will certainly end up in a cell block.
This phenomenon that one can become his own bank and accountant, must be worth something and thankfully it is.
Now, if anyone is given this chance to operate on same level as the "house" is than truly equal outcome can be achieved. It is not guaranteed of course, because moving "digits" alone is not enough any more. Once again process of financial operations was humanized, influence and economic power ratios were readjusted, this alone simply must be beneficial to us all.

It's a free world and so people have the right to air their opinions.
Those who are of the opinion that bitcoin is the most ridiculous invention ever say that based on their own peculiar experiences and researched.
And that right is respected here.
Personally, I think bitcoin invention is the most ever powerful invention in recent times.
The blockchain technology is said to be one of the biggest technologies of our time.

I definitely support this stance

What's more, if we start to think about it, we will inevitably arrive at a conclusion that "changing digits" is not in fact the worst form of a "mathematical abstraction and not an actual thing", even without taking into account that the best part of the modern economy is like that exactly. The worst thing is that decisions we make, life preferences we have, and choices we pick are coming from what may be even more abstract than digits in an obscure server somewhere "out there". So it doesn't really matter because the very idea of profits and benefits as such is no less abstract

The value of it is $3650 approximate and you think it is worth nothing ?
then how about the corrupt system where they print 0.15 dollars of paper turning it into money and lending it out to the kinds of people like you and putting interest in it. That's how ridiculous the fiat system is.

There have been divided opinions about Bitcoin and tend to question its potential and credibility. However, for those who are well-aware and educated about this invention, they know how beneficial and profitable Bitcoin is. It is a total breakthrough, an invention, a technology that brings quality of life. It may not be widely-accepted for now, but I believe that its demand will continue to increase.

This is one of the best explanation i have ever read. i totally agree with you man, with fiat, you don't own it, you just hold it because the Government lets you to, while with bitcoin, you are the only person that has control over your funds directly.

So you are back at it

I haven't heard you talk about Bitcoin mining costs for some time, I mean, after you and people who supported the idea that Bitcoin couldn't possibly crash below 6k because "so were the mining costs" back in the day were proved flat-out wrong. Now, when the dust has settled a little, you are back to your element and started to preach the same bullshit about production costs determining value of something again

Somehow I thought that people can learn at least the hard way but I was obviously wrong (well, actually I think that most people can't learn at all, either way)