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Other => Meta => Topic started by: Veleor on January 09, 2019, 12:47:39 AM



Title: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: Veleor on January 09, 2019, 12:47:39 AM
The topic about company "Worldcore" in the Russian section was renamed by OP and then it was deleted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5090847.0) by Russian moderator with all evidence that were there.

In my mind, moderators have no right to remove topics about scam projects even with the reason "Deleted at the author's request", since OP is not an owner of the comments which were posted in the topic and they shouldn't be deleted at his will.

However, after that I have started a new topic about "Worldcore" in the Russian locale that was closed by the moderator Xal0lex (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1068464).
Xal0lex said (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5090914.msg48952174#msg48952174) that there is no subsection for scams in the Russian locale and all suspicious projects should be discussed only in the thread "SCAMS of our bitcointalk" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4687372.0).

Personally, I disagree to follow this guidance because I think when all scams are discussing in the one place then it would be extremly inconvenient for users and forum guests to find the information about certain projects and this will prevent a complete discussion.

Also, I consider is unacceptable for moderators deleting or closing topics about scam projects whenever they want. Isn't it a violation of the forum rules?

19. Possible (or real) scams and Trust ratings are not moderated (to prevent moderation abuse).



I ask Forum Administration to restore the Russian topic about Worldcore (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2251768.0) and create a subsection about scams in the Russian locale.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: suchmoon on January 09, 2019, 01:10:25 AM
So they deleted the ANN thread? While I can see how a scam thread would be off-topic in an ANN section, what if you create a new ANN thread with minimal content in the OP, not calling it a scam, and then let the discussion flow wherever it may... Or create a thread in the Russian "other" board.

Or petition theymos for a Russian scam board and apply to be its moderator :). It sounds quite silly that this huge local section with so many scams doesn't have a proper place to discuss all of them. One thread seems inadequate.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: jackg on January 09, 2019, 01:31:25 AM
Just post it in the topic and not the discussion board.

The rules are unofficial... Itís not ironclad and moderators make mostakes and thereís no undo with smf.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: The Pharmacist on January 09, 2019, 01:36:55 AM
Or petition theymos for a Russian scam board and apply to be its moderator :).
Not a bad idea at all.  I don't have any data, nor a prejudice against Russians--but don't a lot of scammers originate from there?  Seems like I've come across a lot of threads about Russian scammers, but as I have no interest in ICOs and don't understand Russian, they fly under my radar.

Whatever the case is, there are a lot of Russian bitcoiners and I think that board ought to have a Scam Accusation subsection of its own.  What would be the downside of that, having to get a moderator?


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: marlboroza on January 09, 2019, 01:47:32 AM
Wait, this http://archive.is/OI4dN was trashed? As far as I know moderator can remove threads on request but I don't think this works with scam accusations, or at least this is last info I got from someone.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: Veleor on January 09, 2019, 01:55:03 AM
Wait, this http://archive.is/OI4dN was trashed?
Yes, this one.

As far as I know moderator can remove threads on request but I don't think this works with scam accusations, or at least this is last info I got from someone.
Are local moderators allowed to delete threads about scam projects (or possible scams) with more than thousands of posts by the OP's request?


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: suchmoon on January 09, 2019, 01:56:41 AM
Wait, this http://archive.is/OI4dN was trashed?
Yes, this one.

So it was a scam accusation (not ANN) thread that existed for 150 pages, got deleted, and then a new one can't be created because scam threads are not allowed? That doesn't sound right.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: marlboroza on January 09, 2019, 02:17:47 AM
Are local moderators allowed to delete threads about scam projects (or possible scams) with more than thousands of posts by the OP's request?
Technically yes. According to forum rules:
Quote
19. Possible (or real) scams and Trust ratings are not moderated (to prevent moderation abuse).
No one said anything about scam accusation threads.

But, as I said, I got info that scam accusation threads can't be removed. It shouldn't be different with this one. Speaking of scam accusation, can someone move this edited scam accusation https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2236259.0 from games and rounds back to scam accusations?


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: Veleor on January 09, 2019, 02:18:35 AM
~

I asked (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5091009.msg48959801#msg48959801) moderator Xal0lex to restore the thread about Worldcore (which most likely a scam) on the 30th of December 2018 and he agreed with condition that this topic would be closed and I will not create other topics about Worldcore. But yesterday Russian moderators deleted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2251768.0) this topic again. And now I'm not even allowed to start a new topic.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: YOSHIE on January 09, 2019, 05:51:13 AM

In my mind, moderators have no right to remove topics about scam projects even with the reason "Deleted at the author's request", since OP is not an owner of the comments which were posted in the topic and they shouldn't be deleted at his will.

The task of a moderator is to lead, organize, and guide discussion, ICO, project/ topic activities. Leading means that a moderator is the person who is most powerful in ICO activities or the discussion he leads in a local or international forum. The moderator has the right to choose who is given the opportunity to run.

I will release this little gap, for good purposes, wrong perceptions, bad solutions, talk about better problems, ok. There he is.

What needs to be understood is the Tasks and Responsibilities Moderator:
Xal0lex (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1068464) can be said by the local Russian monderator, he has the right to guard and supervise the discussion and fraudulent ICO or scammer, which is his responsibility to run according to the topic and the security of the Forum.

For that, the moderator who is his full responsibility is:

1. Take action so that the discussion, ICO, project can be more focused and conducive to forum members.

2. Give a warning to members who are considered to violate the regulations and or are considered to interfere with the Forum.

3. Give a warning to participants if there is unnecessary noise towards the forum.

4. Escort the discussion process / ico to run according to the desired forum, not including spamming, fraud etc.

5. Carry out its duties and responsibilities in accordance with forum regulations.

6. Ensure that the discussion or ico does not deviate from the topic in question and is safe for forum participants.

7. Creating a comfortable and conducive atmosphere to interact and deliver papers in the forum.

The following is a mistake that moderators must avoid, but that is for the good of the forum and other members.

First: Cut, delete, suddenly without warning, the moderator must dare to cut and delete. However there are good ways to cut or delete so that the members are not offended.

second: these procedures and rules are expressed in the beginning of moderation in the official forum so that everyone understands.

I hope this can be better for the future, there is no gap between members and moderators, talking well is better than crashing and cursing.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: VyachikO on January 09, 2019, 09:00:01 AM
...

One topic for discussion of all SCAM projects is clearly not enough!

If the Staff really want close the topic at the request of the OP - no problem! But let the first will transfer all posts from the closed topic in new topic, or at least in the only topic "SCAMS of our bitcointalk" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4687372.0).

Staff can move posts from one topic to another (they have not once done this).

Irrevocably remove topics with thousands posts - it's completely wrong!


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: Veleor on January 09, 2019, 10:06:21 AM
Irrevocably remove topics with thousands posts - it's completely wrong!

Moreover, scam accusation threads shouldn't be removing by local moderators even at the request of the author, especially when topic contain more than 200 pages of comments of hundreds users: http://archive.li/UXA2F#selection-7439.5-7443.3


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: theymos on January 09, 2019, 12:07:31 PM
What happened yesterday was that Marina Uni renamed the topic to something English, moved it to an English board, and then reported it. A moderator in that board, not being aware of any of this context, then trashed it for being off-topic.

I restored it and temporarily banned Marina Uni for moving the topic to where it would be off-topic. OPs do not own the replies to their topics, and unless it is self-moderated, they have no right to have the replies deleted.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: KingScorpio on January 09, 2019, 12:14:58 PM
The topic about company "Worldcore" in the Russian section was renamed by OP and then it was deleted (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5090847.0) by Russian moderator with all evidence that were there.

In my mind, moderators have no right to remove topics about scam projects even with the reason "Deleted at the author's request", since OP is not an owner of the comments which were posted in the topic and they shouldn't be deleted at his will.

However, after that I have started a new topic about "Worldcore" in the Russian locale that was closed by the moderator Xal0lex (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1068464).
Xal0lex said (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5090914.msg48952174#msg48952174) that there is no subsection for scams in the Russian locale and all suspicious projects should be discussed only in the thread "SCAMS of our bitcointalk" (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4687372.0).

Personally, I disagree to follow this guidance because I think when all scams are discussing in the one place then it would be extremly inconvenient for users and forum guests to find the information about certain projects and this will prevent a complete discussion.

Also, I consider is unacceptable for moderators deleting or closing topics about scam projects whenever they want. Isn't it a violation of the forum rules?

19. Possible (or real) scams and Trust ratings are not moderated (to prevent moderation abuse).



I ask Forum Administration to restore the Russian topic about Worldcore (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2251768.0) and create a subsection about scams in the Russian locale.

what the hell is worldcore, and why do you want to spam russian bitcointalk with it?


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: jackg on January 09, 2019, 12:42:28 PM
What happened yesterday was that Marina Uni renamed the topic to something English, moved it to an English board, and then reported it. A moderator in that board, not being aware of any of this context, then trashed it for being off-topic.

I restored it and temporarily banned Marina Uni for moving the topic to where it would be off-topic. OPs do not own the replies to their topics, and unless it is self-moderated, they have no right to have the replies deleted.

That means the discussion here is resolved since it wasn't the mod at all but a jr member wanting to delete the thread... Unless his intention was to move it to scam accusations but didn't know where it was.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: suchmoon on January 09, 2019, 01:17:19 PM
That means the discussion here is resolved since it wasn't the mod at all but a jr member wanting to delete the thread... Unless his intention was to move it to scam accusations but didn't know where it was.

It's a Russian thread so it doesn't belong in Scam Accusations.

Good to see it restored. Still a proper Russian scam board would be nice too. Now this thread is buried in a bounty (?) board and locked so if someone wants to add to the scam accusation there aren't any good options.


Title: Re: Russian staff are moderating scams against the rules
Post by: Findingnemo on January 09, 2019, 01:56:37 PM
That means the discussion here is resolved since it wasn't the mod at all but a jr member wanting to delete the thread... Unless his intention was to move it to scam accusations but didn't know where it was.

It's a Russian thread so it doesn't belong in Scam Accusations.

Good to see it restored. Still a proper Russian scam board would be nice too. Now this thread is buried in a bounty (?) board and locked so if someone wants to add to the scam accusation there aren't any good options.
Russian board has more number of topics and posts after the main section so why we don't have proper child board for scam accusation.Sending PM to theymos about adding a child board on that section will help?