Bitcoin Forum

While I do agree there are flaws in the current DefaultTrust system, and that improvements need to be made, I don't think the changes to the logic as to who is on DT1 are a step in the right direction. Below are my concerns:

Using Merit for a metric:
I am generally against the merit system, for a number of reasons such as I think it creates groupthink, suppresses descent/unpopular opinions,  many who have sMerit tend to receive a lot of merit, and the overwhelming majority of forum users do not participate in the merit system do to having no merit. I think a good alternative to the merit system would be adding a financial component to achieve each rank (exceptional users could rank up for free).

I would note that I am one of the most merited users on the forum, and as such, I have shown that I can "earn" merit as I wish, and if I wanted, I could create a new account and earn a lot of merit on that account. As such, I am a benefactor of the merit system.

If the merit system is here to stay, requiring a small number of merit to be eligible for DT1 is probably not all that bad, as long as the requirement is low. The 10 merit requirement is probably low enough.

The DefaultTrust system is something intended to gauge one's ability to be trusted in the marketplace, however the merit system is intended to gauge one's ability to make "good" posts. I don't think making a lot of "good" posts should give someone the right to have influence on the trust system via who is on their trust lists. Granted, one person with nefarious intentions will have difficulty personally get someone untrustworthy added to DT1, however a group of nefarious people (acting in concert or otherwise) may be able to get less desirable people added to DT1.  

Lack of Accountability of those on DT1:
This is an ongoing problem with the DefaultTrust system, however I believe the new DT1 logic makes this worse.

As it stands nowyesterday, if someone on DT1 has one (or more) people on their trust list who have no business being in the DefaultTrust network, they are more or less not held accountable, and will remain on DT1. Today, if someone is in DT who should not be, other DT1 members will need to be lobbied to get this person excluded (on a technical level, the DT1 member that added this person can also remove this inappropriate person, however this rarely happens in practice).

If there were major concerns with a DT1 member's trust list (and/or ratings), these concerns could be escalated to theymos, and theymos can remove them as he deems appropriate.

The above is still possible under the new system, however I suspect in many cases the response will be he meets the criteria and there is no manipulation to meet the criteria, so he will stay. Once someone "meets the criteria" it will be difficult to get this to not be the case, as those on DT1 tend to receive additional trust inclusions over time, and over time, people will become inactive, and as such will not respond to (or see) requests to remove controversial people from their trust lists. theymos would have the power to blacklist certain people, however I suspect there will be a high threshold for this.

Trust inclusions and trust ratings are entirely separate:
One stated goal of this new system is:

Previously, there were a group of people on DT2 who rarely traded, but would frequently give trust ratings to others (frequently negative, and frequently controversial). Many of these people are now on DT1. Many of these people earn incomes on the forum via signature campaigns that will not necessarily be sensitive to a rating that says "this person gave a controversial rating but did not [try to, nor plan on] steal money". Some do not try to earn any money on the forum. It is also not terribly difficult to explain to a trading partner that you are standing your ground on a controversial rating verses having to explain a rating that explicitly says they are a scammer. If someone gives a retaliatory negative rating that is a frivolous scam accusation (as often happens), they will not maintain credibility for very long, nor will they remain on many trust lists (and rightfully so).

As a result of the above, I don't think there is any real consequences to giving out controversial ratings for many who previously have given out these types of ratings.

Conversely, if someone who is solidly on DT1 (or in some cases DT2) will be well protected against being called out on scammy behavior that is not "vanilla" scamming. There are people on DT1 today who have ignored calls to explain six figure (USD) discrepancies in money they held in escrow, who have been involved in explicit illegal behavior, including extortion without any serious pushback.

There are a number of people who are now excluded from DT2 who previously gave ratings to powerful scammers

the new DT1 contains much overlap and many "communities" are unrepresented
Roughly a third of new DT1 members are in the same "clique" / "trading circle" and another 15% closely associate with this group. This group just so happens to collectively give out many controversial ratings, reducing accountability for such ratings when they support eachother (the support is not necessarily universal among the group).  
Most local communities do not appear to be represented in DT1.

This quote:
This should be fairly self explanatory, and is only asking for problems.

---

I have some other concerns, and I think I might have some possible solutions, however it is very late now.

The clique part is a lie (albeit the "trading circle" may be true, but that is rather a positive thing - it shows that there is still a high volume trading section); there are many extensive disagreements between the members of the current DT list on my issues/individual users. That's all I had to say on this (expected) thread.

Just because you think something is a controversial rating, that doesn't mean that it actually is that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

---

I'm grabbing some popcorn for this thread.

Agreed. But I don't think the Merit requirement is meant to include users in DT, it's meant exclude users (such as spammers). Making good posts doesn't mean someone should be on DT, but making bad posts sure as hell means he shouldn't!

Inactive users won't stay on DT1:

I too have some concerns, theymos responded to one of them saying this:
(I've removed the context from the quote, I don't want to give people any ideas)

That's now. I can imagine other communities will make their own DT1 "clique": for example a group of Russians, a group of Indonesians and a group of bounty hunters. As long as they stay out of each other's hair, they can co-exist. The moment they touch, it feels like a black hole collision competing for exclusions.
The old DT-system felt like it meant something, the new system changes every few hours.

It all sounds too complex to me. I'll continue to avoid using it, and I'll make my own judgements from my perception of activities in the forum.

I agree with the OP with the merit system of letting a user to pay a fee to rank up. Then the accounts should be distinguish from ranking up due to merit and ranking up due to a paid fee.

My opinion about the forum now is not a user-friendly. Newcomers will just tend to have a couple of post then leave the forum. This because they need to get merit before ranking up. Ranking up is one of the motivation for a user to continue on learning about bitcoin and later on will invest. Base on my experience I do not really believe in bitcoin but later on I started to learn and invested a little bit on it. That was the time when a user can rank up to jr. member even without getting merit.

However, it will be hard now to get more bitcoiners here in the forum. The forum has set to be for the good and elite users that could easily get merit on their posting skills. Again it is not a user friendly anymore. I know that the merit system was to eradicate shit posting but this problem is not about the forum. The real problem is the bounty campaign and signatures so what to regulate here is not the user to rank up but the bounty signature campaign through the bounty managers. A set of guidelines will do I guess.

-edited.

Wrong, not everyone is here to be a bounty hunter. I took 2-3 years more than needed to get to Legendary, I didnt wear a paid signature for the first 4 years on the forum.

Just because you feel a certain way it does not mean everyone else is in the same situation.

I can attest to this, was in the same boat. Lurker since 2013, member since 2014, never wore a sig until very recently.

At some point people stopped joining this forum as a hobby and started joining it as a potential profession, which I still find to be quite weird. It's pretty easy to tell which newcomers are actually a fan of crypto and which are here for the shit tokens just by the content of their posts.

Furthermore QT I don't see why you care what the DT is like because your reputation has been blown to shit regardless how you rejigger your trust settings. Frankly I don't understand why you continue to post under that account.

Hmmmm this is a nice attitude ... or are you saying that people should act purely selfishly and not wish for a better fairer system for all because they themselves will not essentially benefit from it??

Explain

I think the point he was making is that regular users will go inactive and not maintain their trust lists. If you have 10 users all including someone in their trust list, and all these users become inactive and therefore do not respond to request to remove said person, then the only way to remove this DT1 member will be through other DT1 exclusions.

As I said in the other thread, it seems a bit strange that you could have 100 or more people excluding someone, but if 10 people include them then they become DT1 (unless the other DT1s remove them).



Ranking up does not increase your ability to learn or contribute to the forum, apart from decreasing some wait times, which are only a problem in the first place if you are a spammer. The only real benefit of ranking up is that you can then earn more money from bounty campaigns. If ranking up is your only motivation to continue to learn about bitcoin, then you are here for the wrong reasons.

Gladly. This is exactly what Theymos et. al. are trying to do -- make a fairer system. I trust his judgment on how to do such far more than I trust Quickseller's. That about sums it up.

BTW you can change your sig if you want -- the website it points to is no longer online. I mean I'm sure Bruno appreciated your help but the ICO was a bigtime bust and needs to be reincarnated to go any further.

I don't use my sig generally anway

You can't be serious about trusting lauda?  he is a proven scam enabler and protector and can I hear why you dismiss the other shady looking shit it has been claimed it pulled ie extortion scheme with owlcatz and tman and also moving escrow funds to personally gain from the bch? have you investigated these claims?

Also is certainly an proven abuser of the trust system who will not answer when questioned on it.

What has quickseller done which is worse?

shall we just all agree that Me, Laura, Owlcuntz, quickie etc etc etc are all baddies and you are the best, most trusted and most sane person on the forum? we are all wrong, you are right and to top it off you are richer than us all as well

would that make you happy? do you want to be Theymos's Number 2?

I want a full analysis of your post histories for collusion and wrong doing.

I want to hear a fact based reply from lauda with evidence of why I got red trust.

I want you to remove at once your red trust or give factual reason why that is not abuse and obvious collusion to add that just moments after I start that lauda thread.

I have no opinion of quickseller so I have no idea where you got this from please explain.

Do you fear the facts and analysis because I do not.

I don't want to be anything and have never applied for any positions at all.

Well being richer is irrelevant to any discussion other than my lack of need of trust of merit. Always nice to jam it into the face of corrupt and scamming sig spammers at every chance I get though. Since it's just another thing to upset them whilst they spam for btc dust.

You want to be wealthy like me too? then follow my tips for the next wave so you don't have to have your nose in laudas corrupt ass forever or do some research yourself into real projects here not just shilling and escrowing for shitty scams.

If you, lauda or owlcatz think this will die down over time think again. Get my red trust off at once or never post freely here again without having these facts near everything you go near.

Facts..

Fact 1 - you are mentally deranged
Fact 2 - I think you need help/drugs/counselling/medical help
Fact 3 - there may be 3 people on this whole forum who give 1 single fuck about what you think
Fact 4 - Any one of the people listed have actually a grand total of 0 fucks to give about you
Fact 5 - Its highly probable you have a mental issue
Fact 6 - I aint removing the neg as I do not and never will trust you
Fact 7 - maybe you should try Tinder/grinder or something as you sound sexually frustrated to me
Fact 8 - I personally think you should live in a padded room
Fact 9 - its snowing here today
Fact 10 - I really do believe you have issues
Fact 11 - I could keep going on if you want more facts..

XXX

So no facts then LOL

Ha I said facts not your made up crap.

Highlight some things that I have said that are incorrect whilst you are about it you moronic ass kissing little bitch

Also making one statement and repeating in 11 different ways is not 11 different things you dumb piece of shit.

No I will not go grinder so don't get your hopes up you filthy little skank

the above are all facts - are you that much of a specialist that you are unable to read? only try to insult with stupid childish insults?

get creative ffs, insult me in a way that has some meaning...

next you will be telling me that your dad is coming to beat me up and you are telling the teacher.

get real pajeet, you have no standing, no credibility and a tiny tiny IQ.

xxx  much love

Moron please take time to present some facts.

Insult you? I am stating facts about you eastern eurotrash sig spamming div

LOL please feel free to list your achievements on this forum hahah I await .... I mean apart from attempting to extort people and licking laudas ass you dirty dog.

Please feel free to present facts of my scamming asap.

I'm glad the low functioning scum like you who are on DT make it easy for me to demonstrate why they must be removed.

Look at you with your sig spamming for btc dust you are laughable and have achieved nothing at all since being here. Low life.

The fact is you are unable to read and digest my facts, maybe they are too difficult for you to understand - perhaps I should get some crayons and draw it out?

They are not facts you dumb shit. Calling you an ass licking slathering fool who colludes and gives me red trust moments after I open a lauda investigation thread  (observable fact), and relating facts about others here that are observable and verifiable does not make me crazy. Do you understand you low functioning imbecile.

I am not surprised you have crayons at the ready you broke ass sig spamming loser haha

Also I think it is time to dig up the extortion scheme facts and have them analysed in public again.

I think you need to bring some evidence to substantiate your claims? where is this evidence bring it now.

I don't think a sig spamming scammers word is enough to demonstrate something is a fact.

Now try to understand your claims are not facts until you bring evidence. Now hurry up you scab.

edit ages later... tick tock moron surely you expected to be called on the evidence for your "facts"

I said hurry you lazy skank or are you off scamming somewhere? what are you doing fool wasting my precious time?

Fact 1 - you are mentally deranged
Fact 2 - I think you need help/drugs/counselling/medical help
Fact 3 - there may be 3 people on this whole forum who give 1 single fuck about what you think
Fact 4 - Any one of the people listed have actually a grand total of 0 fucks to give about you
Fact 5 - Its highly probable you have a mental issue
Fact 6 - I aint removing the neg as I do not and never will trust you
Fact 7 - maybe you should try Tinder/grinder or something as you sound sexually frustrated to me
Fact 8 - I personally think you should live in a padded room
Fact 9 - its snowing here today
Fact 10 - I really do believe you have issues
Fact 11 - I could keep going on if you want more facts..


those are facts till you prove otherwise.

ok sweetcheeks
xxx

LOL you dumb sig spamming wretch you can not make claims and then ask people to disprove them or they then become facts you stupid dumb fool. Bring evidence for your claims that is how it works. Or corroborating events. DT is for tagging scammers or those likely to scam people imbecile. So tag lauda, owlcatz and yourself because there is EVIDENCE and CORROBORATING EVENTS that you are far more likely to scam people.


I want you to present facts for your claims you dumb shit or else what prevents and DT red trusting anyone on the board with the onus on that person to prove other wise. Fuck you are dumb.

Fact 1 - you can not provide any evidence for your claims.
Fact 2 - you are laudas ass clown little bitch
Fact 3 - you abuse the trust system
Fact 4 - you are implicated in an extortion scheme with lauda and owlcatz and will not even dare provide the threads here for analysis.
Fact 5 - You can not bring evidence here of one dishonest thing I have done.


Now dip shit fuck off back under your rock and remove my red trust or bring evidence that I should have red trust for being untrustworthy.

Hurry up clown

Ohh - bigman with the big words - you are aware that you are a keyboard warrior right?

1) I WILL NOT REMOVE MY NEG
2) I do not give a single fuck - not 1 single fuck about what you think
3) I do not give a single fuck - not 1 single fuck about what you demand

my evidence is your posting habit, that backs up my neg to you.

now little flower please realise that you cannot earn here - you will not win this battle/war or whatever it is in your tiny little sub human IQ mind - so leave this place, maybe take up goat fucking, or I hear that people like you enjoy sticking fruit and vegetables up their rectums - whatever it is, I am sure you will be much happier being yourself and running naked in fields with a massive carrot teasing your sphincter

xxxx love you my little ass clown

Lol look at this fool.... hahah

so NO YOU WONT BRING FACTS AND EVIDENCE

you will just repeat your blathering nonsense with nothing to back it up.

Haha your homo erotic fantasies are amusing and i guess lauda has broken your feeble mind so that you can think of nothing else keep telling me more I enjoy them actually....you guys are really into this stuff then???

I ask only out of kindness and compassion. Are you okay??

Have I probed you too hard and you have broken down into this mess or sexual rantings of animals and vegtibles?  carrots you say?

I am sorry if I have upset you by asking for you to provide some facts and evidence :( :(

But again I ask

Present some facts now or just run and hide back behind lauda and get munching away.

You are a scammer protector and ass licker, you are implicated in an extortion, You have abused DT and will give no factual specific examples of why you believe I am a scammer.

Your's are there in black and white and everyone knows about them. Mine do not exist because I am not a dirty broke ass sig spamming scammer like you who has to lick laudas ass in public to the extent he looks pathetic and deserving of pitty.

Calm down you seem upset you dumb fool

https://i.imgur.com/5dcYcxw.png

all the evidence I need - how many merits you got from your crazy ramblings against me?

I do not need to answer to you - the people have spoken.

cryptohunter isn't the messiah he is a very naughty boy.

No! Let go of my leash! Don't drag me into this anilingual orgy! Last time I was with Lauda I was coughing up furballs for weeks!

I cant help it that the cat doesn't shave... you know me baby waxing is king!

LOL thanks for that laugh. I said evidence to support your claims....not support my argument by posting a bunch of colluders names on giving meaningless points.

Evidence and facts in response to my questions regarding your claims. Do you not understand you dumb fool.

Now try again.

I have stated multiple times that you are mental and my proof is these long rambling nonsense posts where you go on 99 tangents and bring in 12 other people as supporting evidence.

now I will state yet again..

YOU HAVE A MENTAL ILLNESS - I DO NOT TRUST MENTAL PEOPLE - MENTAL PEOPLE ARE NOT STABLE.

get it - I don't trust you, I also don't give a flying fuck what you think about me..

now peace out my little confused pickle - go get some meds.

xxxx

Bring the evidence  - surely even a dumb fuck like your can understand I want the evidence ....specific examples.... bring the examples where I seem anything like as unstable or sexual deviant as you do in this thread?  bring it now I demand it you stupid non achieving scum bag.

I mean are you saying you sound totally stable right now?  and not like a real sexual depraved maniac (my type actually whats your number?)  

Bring evidence and stop avoiding it you chick shit dumb euro trash skank

Also if you do not bring me that thread about your extortion scheme or I will bring it to meta and have it analysed again over and over.

Also you are a scammer according to such moon do you understand that?

What dont you get about re reading your own posts from the last 12/18 hours or however long it has been that you have been consuming/not consuming enough drugs? tell ya what my little lovely, do you need a cuddle? I guess that was it, it wasn't your uncle touching you inappropriately it was the fact that your mum left your daddy.

now please understand this - no one will trust you whilst you act in such an unstable manner, if you do not believe that you have been acting a little crazy then you really are fucked up.

XX much love and im sure ill catch ya in the next 20 mins treacle.

PS - Qs I do apologise for this derailment, but this is proof that we need a system like Theymos has implemented so mentally unstable fuck sticks like this cytptowanker have actually 0 sway on the forum

Anyone got a "well that escalated quickly" meme or something?

QS has some points, but I'd rather we all just wait to see how this all works out, because I don't think the DT1 list we have now is going to stay static for long, so a month or a few down the road you never know who might be on it. 

Most of that 'clique' are people who tag scammers and so forth, and I agree that just because you sold or bought an account doesn't make you evil.  It's just very damaging to the forum because of the potential for using the account's reputation in order to scam or the rank in order to spam to earn more money, or for merit abuse.  I'd much prefer that account sales were banned here so I wouldn't feel the need to tag them. 

For some reason, that stirred something deep inside me.  Also made me laugh.  I'm conflicted about these feelings now, so thanks for that.

So no evidence then LOL - as I suspected. You fear the truth like the rest.

So no thread for me to analyse your extortion with lauda and owlcatz? I mean if it is apparent you were all just undercover trying to weed out bad guys ....show me it and provide your side. I mean obviously it will be hilarious. Bring it.

Just more attempts to sexy talk. Get lost, evidence first. Then perhaps a cuddle if you're really good later on.

What don't you get about re reading your own posts from the last 12/18 hours as EVIDENCE OF WHY I DON'T FUCKING TRUST YOU

Why dont you read your sexual deviant ramblings that have no point on this thread an others in the last couple of hourse that cant be backed with facts or evidence.

Then provide examples of mine you claim are there??? trust abusing scum bag.

Then we can see who needs red trust and kicked off DT

Let me see these examples NOW or you are a DT abuser.

Your red trust link points to a FACT BASED post regarding your master lauda. This is abuse and proof of collusion. You can not red trust for fact based posts.

Can, have and will.

if you don't like it I suggest you petition all other DT-1 members to exclude me or if they feel that my tagging of you is not needed or accurate they will reach out to me like adults and have actual fluid conversations

so - Like it or fuck off back to your hole.


xxxx laters sexy pants

I don't wish to engage you in your sexual fantasies or hear about your fluids.

I want you to bring forth an example of something I have said that makes me untrustworthy. Provide the specific example now or you are an abuser of the trust system as well as a scammer protector and ass licker.

It is very simple do it now your moronic miscreant

YOU ARE MENTAL - YOUR POSTS ARE PROOF OF THAT - I DO NOT TRUST MENTAL PEOPLE.

it ain't hard to understand cuntsmouth

Why dont you read your sexual deviant ramblings that have no point on this thread an others in the last couple of hourse that cant be backed with facts or evidence.

Then provide examples of mine you claim are there??? trust abusing scum bag.

Then we can see who needs red trust and kicked off DT

Let me see these examples NOW or you are a DT abuser.

Your red trust link points to a FACT BASED post regarding your master lauda. This is abuse and proof of collusion. You can not red trust for fact based posts.

I'd be much more interested to hear thoughts about how its working from the viewpoint of genuine non sockpuppet newish users. To be fair, the majority of the people who have been voicing their opinions for or about the new DT system changes don't actually need DT in the first place. Almost everyone that has posted in this thread so far have been here for quite a while, and have already established their own good trading, risk mitigation practices. I'd be curious to see if any new users have thoughts on how the changes have either increased risk visibility, made them trust the DT lists more or less, or inspire more or less confidence that they'll at least get a basis for available feedback information.

I find it hard to have an opinion one way or another, because I don't personally use DT feedback. I lean on the side of helping people that need it out, but its rare that they voice their concerns, so most DT related meta threads end up as a political discussion among legendary members.

Yeah, has anybody here a deathwish and ask the two to get a room?  ;D ;D ;D
.
.
.
.
PS: camera anybody?


I really don't get how people really think they have a way to design this trust system perfectly so it mirrors the user behind the account. People might turn bad in a matter of seconds, people might act like angels making one small pace at a time towards their goal of grabbing and running away. There is no way in hell you can predict this a lot of "trustable" persons here have shown through the years there is no way you can guarantee 100% for somebody.

This is the best we have right now, let it work for a month or two and let's see the consequences, if any.
It's the whole merit saga once again but now flavored with mentally abused dildos.

Look it is simple I presented facts about a scam pumper and protector

mention facts that there are thread accusing lauda of shady escrow practices and that senior senior members agree that he is shady and the fact that lauda is also implicated in an extortion scheme.

I get red trust for this???

NO WAY.

Lauda is scared to come and debate with me this red trust because it knows I will destroy it like in every other encounter we had and it spouts shit that I tell lies then runs away when I say PRESENT THESE LIES.

Now get this shit red trust off of my account or every DT who allows it is an abuser and a scam pumper protector

These are FACTS and clearly observable to anyone.

Lauda is hiding away and sends this sexually depraved moronic slathering dog TMAN here to first red trust me for presenting facts about himself (lauda) .this guy TMAN is obviously a low functioning sub species lauda formed from merging the dna from tp and owlcatz and and jabbed it full of testosterone by direct methods. It's sexual depravity is off putting when I am trying to present sensible evidence relating to scams. How can resist such directness and excitement and brand them as the scammers they are at the same time. It is unfair and underhanded. Facts about your scamming and DT abuse only please.

Lauda you skanky scam promoter come here now and tell me why I got red trust for presenting facts about you??

Stop hiding up.

There is no logic in getting Lauda in the DT list. It looks too stupid to see a scammer having many numbers of green trusts. ???

I think you're confused. You don't have "many numbers of green trusts", you're quite red.

Let us presume that your argument that "Lauda is a scammer" is correct. When I view the trust comments Lauda makes, it would be clear that Lauda is a "rat" and has no qualms giving valid negative ratings to other scammers, if (s)he is indeed a scammer. Just like investigators in a police force use informants to get leads, I think it is still perfectly valid to add Lauda to my trust list and even be a member on the default trust list. Quite frankly, if someone is going to trade with someone, they should do more than just viewing the color of the number on the trust rating. They should do their own due diligence and actually view the comments themselves and make a judgement for themselves on whether the comments are valid and even apply to the current transaction they wish to engage in.

Everyone knows that Lauda is a cat, which is pretty much the opposite of a rat.

---

Seriously though, THOUSANDS of users have a vote now, even some bright red scammers. So all these DT complaints... meh.

ATM, only 147 members have the 250 merit required to be one of the supervotes, according to BPIP. Not thousands. Guess we merit sources better get to work.

I meant the 10-merit requirement. But even the 147 can add many more users to their trust lists so it's not like there's a lack of opportunity.

Take out the top 200's own cycled merits and see how many have 250 earned merits.

About ... not many.

Earned merits only is like saying all posts legends made before merit system were worth zero .... that sounds very strange.

centralised the trust system and injects huge swathes of subjectivity and variance. Variance you eliminate from a trust system if possible I would say.  

trying to use subjective (and meaningless by suchmoons definition) scores as building blocks for trust seems quite a strange idea. I would like to have seen a debate on it by some real game theory egg heads to see what they say.

I still am yet to understand why creating some merit analysis stats makes you more trusted than a legend that has held 10000's of dollars or millions of dollars of coins for years and never took even one for themselves.

If anyone can explain it.

If Bob has a lot of merit and also has Alice in his trust list, assuming many others have Alice in their trust lists, Alice would be on DT1. Later Bob may become inactive for whatever reason, but even when Bob is inactive, Alice will remain on DT1, even if everyone who has Alice on their trust list is inactive.



The new system is scheduled to update once per month, but the number of people on DT1 will likely increase, as IMO it is easier for someone to get added to a person's trust list than it is to get removed (practically speaking), and more people will get merit that makes them eligible to "vote" on who is on DT1.

I am an advocate for a fair system, and I care about the integrity of the marketplace (and of the community). My trust rating is shit, but that does not stop me from being entrusted with large amounts of money when I do engage in trades (which has become less frequent, but this is due to my own choosing).

Right. There should be some mechanism for someone to not be on DT1, both having their ratings not count, and not having their trust list count, beyond manual intervention by theymos. This should be beyond affirmatively needing people to remove an account from DT1 to get them removed, as over time people with a lot of merit will become inactive, get locked out of their accounts, etc., and will not update their trust lists.


If you want to do business on the forum, ranking up is very beneficial because of limits (both in delays, and total allowed per day) to the number of PMs of lower ranking accounts, making negotiating and working through details difficult if done via the forum.

One could also argue the posting limits for very low level accounts is excessive.

Most of the clique I am speaking of is a group of people who trade amongst themselves in the collectables section (and those closely associated with these people). They generally have high trust ratings, but much of this is from trading within the group, and in general a person is much less likely to scam their friend than they are to scam a stranger. A few of these people have a somewhat shady history (I am not referring to those who have explicitly scammed) by doing things such as backing out of auctions, and making some questionable escrow decisions (I am not referring to situations that I view as clearly wrong), all of which would likely earn most people a decent amount of negative trust.

For me, DT serves as somewhat of a reference point. I would generally give ratings from DT a little more weight, especially successful trades, and successful trades with those who have decent trust ratings from the perspective of DT (this is one negative of not displaying the trust ratings of those who gave trust on a person's trust page). When deciding to give a no collateral loan, I will also consider (among other things), the value of their reputation when viewed from DT.

The new system makes it more difficult to gauge the value of one's reputation that someone has to lose if they were to (try to) pull off a scam in a trade.