Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Hardware => Topic started by: Steamtyme on March 15, 2019, 01:44:29 PM



Title: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on March 15, 2019, 01:44:29 PM
I was checking out Pangolin to see when more M10's would be available and to my surprise they had the M20 listed. This miner is only listed on Pangolinminer.com, nothing on the manufacturer website either. Most notably these miners are using 12nm chip size and are available for pre-order Shipping before May 20,2019.

The specs has 2 models:

48TH/S (+-5%) @ 2300W (+-10%)   for $1450 USD             Or                     58TH/S (+-5%)   @ 3300W (+- 10%)   for 1500 USD

I must say the numbers look great especially the 48TH model. I am kind of surprised they aren't mentioned on any other sites.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 15, 2019, 01:54:26 PM
Pretty sure it is real and they are taking preorders.

I may be getting both models to do YouTube videos.

I have been taking with them about it.

It is 12nm not 7nm which means they may  have 1 more upgrade in say six-seven months.

Note these will be subject to the trump tax if USA based.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on March 15, 2019, 03:10:59 PM
This is cool news.

As I mentioned in the M10 thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=4737927.msg50168038#msg50168038),
I might be able to get a demo and write a review for the M20.

I will keep you guys posted!


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fanatic26_ on March 15, 2019, 03:15:36 PM
I am a bit surprised at how much of an incremental upgrade this is.

M10S = 55TH  @ 3400w
M20   = 58TH  @ 3300w

Considering its a new chip the upgrade seems rather marginal


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 15, 2019, 03:25:06 PM
I am a bit surprised at how much of an incremental upgrade this is.

M10S = 55TH  @ 3400w
M20   = 58TH  @ 3300w

Considering its a new chip the upgrade seems rather marginal

the m10 to m20 is huge

m10  31th  2300watts
m20  48th  2300watts

but the

m10s  55th 3400watts
m20?  58th 3300watts

is not much


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: NotFuzzyWarm on March 15, 2019, 03:25:55 PM
To me @ the 58THs mark it rather depends on how many chips are used in it vs the M10S.
Compared to the M10-31 or 33 the M20-48 is a substantial improvement in speed/power.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fanatic26_ on March 15, 2019, 03:31:42 PM
That's why I mentioned the S model, which doesnt have a low power mode to compare.

Personally I think they shouldnt even sell the higher speed version with the last 10TH costing 1000w.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 15, 2019, 03:32:39 PM
I asked for both models to compare.

I think we will be going with 10-30 m20 48th short term

and maybe 50-100 m20's long term.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on March 15, 2019, 04:46:49 PM
Nice well I look forward to seeing reviews and videos of the gear. I only mentioned that it was only on the Pangolin site, so people knew where to look, I'll have to link it later not sure why I didn't. I definitely believe in the gear and will probably break my rule of ordering first batch gear.

The other bonus that I forgot to mention is there PSU is still rated up to 264 V.  I probably would have been crushed if they had gone to 240 V max.

It's funny that comment about a jump to 7nm has me wondering what they can do next considering how they're killing it with these older chips. I wonder if they skip 10 and go right to 7nm.

Personally I think they shouldnt even sell the higher speed version with the last 10TH costing 1000w.

I agree I kept thinking I was reading it wrong or that maybe it was a typo in the fresh numbers they posted.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: NotFuzzyWarm on March 15, 2019, 05:04:05 PM
It's funny that comment about a jump to 7nm has me wondering what they can do next considering how they're killing it with these older chips. I wonder if they skip 10 and go right to 7nm.

I would not call them 'older chips', it is just that the 16/14nm node process is fully mature and well characterized which means fully developed design rules leading to more predictable specs and much better & repeatable yields. The 12/10nm node has been in use long enough with enough chip production under its belt to be called a nearly-mature process. On top of that, the work being done on the 7nm node also pays huge dividends to advance the higher node production methods.

The 7nm node is still very much a work-in-progress for all Foundries. Even Intel has (again) pushed back on marketing the 7nm node.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 15, 2019, 05:19:51 PM
yeah  they are rocking the 12nm at 48th and 2300 watts  which will be full speed

if they can do efficiency setting on the m20 like the m10

21th 1265 watts
31th 2300 watts

21/31 =  .677  x 48th = 32.5th

32.5th at 1265 watts = 39 watts a th on efficient speed
48th   at 2300 watts =  48 watts a th

on the 12nm

what this means is very good for the 48th model

who know what the 58th model will do on lower setting

and still the 7nm in 6-8 months

I am liking these builders.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on March 15, 2019, 05:30:21 PM
Exciting but interesting. I think I'm in fanactic's camp with the model numbering and spec seems like a m10s. Odd to have a 10th difference for 50USD. Maybe they don't want to pay my consulting fee for marketing, then they can get here free along with some import/export advice. Then I still hope the 48th unit has a efficiency mode nice though to have some product coming and put pressure on for competition. I'll probably always favor the bold.

Edit: looking at pricing it'll still be far under Innosilicon T3 with duties/tariffs.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 15, 2019, 05:38:54 PM
on paper the m20 at 48th looks very good for those with higher power cost.

the m20 58th is a question mark?  as to whom it fits.

I guess the bull miner.  If it costs 50 usd more and coins go up in price  it is a lot of hash for 50 usd.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on March 15, 2019, 05:53:30 PM
Yea, then hoping for efficiency modes then the 58T is probably the stronger buy, though both look good.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: OgNasty on March 15, 2019, 07:30:04 PM
Note these will be subject to the trump tax if USA based.

The tax is based on the import date, not the purchase date.  So perhaps this could be a gamble that the trade issues will be resolved by then.  ;)


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 15, 2019, 08:43:28 PM
I'll have more details posted online soon.
But I'm sure someone will delete my posts.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 15, 2019, 09:18:51 PM
The tax is based on the import date, not the purchase date.  So perhaps this could be a gamble that the trade issues will be resolved by then.  ;)

I have heard some rumors it may end  April 1 who knows.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on March 15, 2019, 10:49:06 PM
The expiry for current talks with China will end this month I believe. So it will either have resolution, current 10% tariff rates don't increase to 25%, or 25% added tariff on all Chinese imports.

Regardless this batch is priced well. The only issue buyers might face would be MicroBT wanting pull move like they did with the D1 late last year. I wouldn't gamble on COGs and prep for the worst. We're hoping for a good bulk pricing then if tariffs drop that only enhances our buyers positions and savings. Still the skeptic in me doesn't think much will come out of current political powers.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 16, 2019, 01:44:56 AM
So, the M20 miner that is listed on the pango website is a pre-order, but the MicroBT factory has not even set a price yet, nor have they officially announced the product. I highly doubt the miner will be available for mass production until end of May or beginning of June. People will receive "demo" or "review" miners, sure, but any company right now pre-selling the M20 is doing so outside of MicroBT's knowledge or approval.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on March 16, 2019, 05:31:59 AM
Well if that's the case than pangolin is sacrificing their reputation. It's where we source, no matter who we email or wechat with on mircobt's end. So far.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 16, 2019, 06:32:19 AM
Curious if the same promo code works on these as well?  Maybe save us $50 a miner or something.  If we have to pay the tariff on these, all depending when ship date is.. anything helps


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: qctechno_isback on March 16, 2019, 01:59:24 PM
Dissipate 3.3KW in a single tube is insane.
This miner will be loud beyond reason.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 16, 2019, 02:31:56 PM
Dissipate 3.3KW in a single tube is insane.
This miner will be loud beyond reason.

It has been done with the m10s  fanatic_26  has used one of them for months maybe 4 months.

It is not a home miner and if I remember  he said it was a true screamer.

Most of us think the m20  48th is the better way to go.

I can give 10 reasons for it over the m20 58th

I have only  thought of one reason for the m20 58th  a big spike in coin price the day I fire it up.

If we went to 8k vs 4k a coin and the bigger unit was doing 10th that would be 100 usd  a month extra  and at 10 cent power it would be 72 usd for the power.

And if you have 5 cent power  1000 extra watts = 36 usd a month  so you would earn  100-36= 64 more each month.

I will test both demos  but most likely I will endup with a lot more of the 48th model then the 58th model


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on March 16, 2019, 03:42:30 PM
Curious if the same promo code works on these as well? 

The $51 Coupon doesn't work on this preorder. The March March one does that they give you in chat as soon as you open the website is able to be applied. I didn't order anything but that was my first thought as well.

Yeah I remember Fanatic confirming it's specs and talking about it being loud enough to hear over the other miners I think. Either way that model is beyond running at home, or near neighbors. That's how I feel about the 58 TH model, barring an amazing efficiency setting. I am still super keen on the 48 TH model, that includes running it in the basement next winter.

I guess for you Phil it would come down to what type of warehouse your next build is in. If there is limited occupancy the noise levels aren't bad, and it wouldn't take many of them to really bump up that power consumption for your proof of load tests.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 16, 2019, 04:08:38 PM
I'm just trying to find out before I order anything the shipping dates.  Is it better to order one at a time in separate orders or all at once?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 16, 2019, 04:11:57 PM
Personally, I would recommend not ordering until there is an official announcement made by MicroBT (the manufacturer of WhatsMiner).


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 16, 2019, 04:13:54 PM
I mean Pangolinminer has always been good in past and never had any issues.  I just hope they make a announcement soon


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on March 16, 2019, 04:28:01 PM
They did have an issue once last year with the D1 miner. They took preorders then before delivery told eveyone the price went up, you could either pay more or get a refund. Not sure if it was a similar issue or if MicroBT upped the price.

Minefarmbuy mentioned it above.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 16, 2019, 04:48:00 PM
Ah I do remember that.  I'm not a fan of preorders but ill try to wait a bit till it gets closer.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 16, 2019, 04:54:41 PM
I have had a good relationship with them. 7 m10 machines 1 with an issue gave me a fast fix for it. The 8th m10 comes on monday.
They have promised a 48th demo and a 58th demo to me  mid to late april.

My thoughts on preorders of this gear it is risky.
One prices could tank like mad. Making it pretty much a bust when it comes May 15th.
Two prices could rise like mad making a possible price rise in the gear.
I do not like to preorder gear.
I know there is FOMO with the  m20 48th but if you are USA based and you preorder a few at 1450  you are in for 2900 usd.

In my case the solar array projects are going well and we may do another expansion the investor/partners are eager to expand  our 300kwatt and add at least  a 600kwatt maybe 2 megawatt array  so 2000 + 300 = 2300/7 or 325kwatts  that is about 100 to 115 m20's

at 1450 a unit  it is over 145,000 worth of miners add in tump tax and shipping it is pushing 2000 a unit or 200,000 if we want 100-110.

The worst case is expansion does not happen and I only need 10 to 20 of them.

It is not my money so I am going to be safe with my purchases.  I.e. I won't preorder I will test demos show them on youtube videos  and most likely  order then.
I also will not order 20 at a time more likely 5 at a time to lower risk of delivery. I look at mining as a long process 10-20 year window.
So I never rush into anything. As there is no need to rush much if the mining game is to last longterm. I play it to last a long time.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 17, 2019, 01:18:28 AM
I honestly plan to upgrade some 841's I have sitting in 1 location since I won't need heat as much when summer comes to these.  I technically need a solid double digit number to order, but I may just preorder a couple to swap some out so I know in the meantime it's doing something at least where as my 841's would be doing nothing.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on March 17, 2019, 01:38:47 AM
So this is MicroBT's next generation Asic, 12nm chips? How would they compare against Bitmain's S17/T17?

I don't particularly like how they named two different products the same, Why isn't one the M20 and the other M21, or say. M20X vs M20?

It is clear that the 48T one is more efficient. You pay 50 USD more to spend more energy per hash?

Or could this be the exact same hardware with slightly different firmware tweaks? I don't understand this marketing, but i welcome the saner model, competition is good for everyone.

Now whats next for MicroBT: 10nm? 7nm?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 17, 2019, 01:45:54 AM
So this is MicroBT's next generation Asic, 12nm chips? How would they compare against Bitmain's S17/T17?

I don't particularly like how they named two different products the same, Why isn't one the M20 and the other M21, or say. M20X vs M20?

It is clear that the 48T one is more efficient. You pay 50 USD more to spend more energy per hash?

Or could this be the exact same hardware with slightly different firmware tweaks? I don't understand this marketing, but i welcome the saner model, competition is good for everyone.

Now whats next for MicroBT: 10nm? 7nm?

the m20 48th is way better then the s17  edit s15 my bad I was thinking s15 as I do not have any info on the s17

the m20? 58th is only good with ultra cheap power or a bull run or maybe on low clock setting.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: elokk on March 17, 2019, 03:35:47 PM
I'll have more details posted online soon.
But I'm sure someone will delete my posts.

If your posts are being deleted, please start to screenshot your post prior to deletion and then share along with forum notification of deletion. Not saying you are lying but would be interesting to know if this is actually happening.

Being that Scott works for a MicroBT reseller and seeing a few other forum members are continually recieving free hardware from Pango (a different reseller) leads me to speculate a forum moderator is also taking free gear from this reseller to promote their business exclusively.

My post is being screenshot and looking forward to seeing what happens. ;D


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: mgoz on March 17, 2019, 04:02:11 PM
the m20 48th is way better then the s17

Unofficial specs I saw for the S17 were 34TH/s @ 1200W and put it at 35W/Th. The M20 48Th is 48W/Th.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 17, 2019, 04:12:08 PM
If your posts are being deleted, please start to screenshot your post prior to deletion and then share along with forum notification of deletion. Not saying you are lying but would be interesting to know if this is actually happening.

Being that Scott works for a MicroBT reseller and seeing a few other forum members are continually recieving free hardware from Pango (a different reseller) leads me to speculate a forum moderator is also taking free gear from this reseller to promote their business exclusively.

My post is being screenshot and looking forward to seeing what happens. ;D

I pay for my demo products from pangolin I have not received any for free.
I get small discounts  of 10 to 20% ----- edit maybe 5% to 20%

On the m3 I got 50 dollars off
on the first m10 I got 50 dollars off. Later on I was also able to secure 51 dollar coupons for pangolin m10's which multiple people on the forum have used.
I have been offered the m20 at a small discount 2 weeks early (late april)

I do get the demos faster then other people.

Of the 8 m10's I paid for each and every one of them.
7 from pangolin and 1 from hagssfin as I often take them from him since the noisy ones are too loud for him to use.
I got 1 s15 and 1 m10 from him

I  also paid for the 1 m3 demo back in dec or nov 2017
I will also pay for the big and small demo m20's.

I have had more then 100 posts deleted by frodocooper so offordscott is not the only person getting posts deleted.

@mgoz  if the s17 does 34th at 1200 watts it will be better I am going to correct my post as for some reason I thought that I was working with  s15 numbers not s17
I changed my post  BTW  do you have a link for those 35 watt a th numbers  as  34th at 1200 watts is very good.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 18, 2019, 04:58:43 AM
Yea if that's true that's very good, but if the price is a usual ripoff bitmain price or they come with reliability issues some people have been reporting for the s15... then the m20 would be a better buy.  All depends on when these are launching and price.  I would say the m20 would be coming in 2 months.

Now says out of stock for both?  No way people bought something this early as preorder without knowing anything about the product?  Or did they just halt it until it's announced?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Huxley23 on March 18, 2019, 06:20:52 AM
Well, thats super weird. I was waiting for them to reveal more info and maybe photos to order some of the 58 TH. Does anybody know whats the reason?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 18, 2019, 12:13:47 PM
Well, thats super weird. I was waiting for them to reveal more info and maybe photos to order some of the 58 TH. Does anybody know whats the reason?

Not sure  but there does seem to be an issue going on behind the scenes.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 18, 2019, 01:15:19 PM
The only issue that’s going on is that Pango decided to launch a pre-order sale too early and without any verified specs. They did so on their own and without the knowledge or blessing of MicroBT.

Pango need $ in order to survive. They most likely only launched the preorder to test the market and to collect some interest and some funds this quarter.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: mgoz on March 18, 2019, 03:05:08 PM
@mgoz  if the s17 does 34th at 1200 watts it will be better I am going to correct my post as for some reason I thought that I was working with  s15 numbers not s17
I changed my post  BTW  do you have a link for those 35 watt a th numbers  as  34th at 1200 watts is very good.

I was only able to find specs on apanel.com and it looks like what I referenced was an old page. Not sure what their source is as I haven't seen anything announced and thought you may have been talking about S15. Specs on their main list are even more efficient than what I posted and put it at 30W/TH. Two different specs listed. One for 34 TH/s @ 1020W and another for 45 TH/s @ 1350W. One is probably T17.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 18, 2019, 03:19:45 PM
The only issue that’s going on is that Pango decided to launch a pre-order sale too early and without any verified specs. They did so on their own and without the knowledge or blessing of MicroBT.

Pango need $ in order to survive. They most likely only launched the preorder to test the market and to collect some interest and some funds this quarter.

There is more then this but it is about the deletions of posts.
It appears someone other then frodocooper or ck has been deleting posts.

I had some deleted last night and an entire thread on Avalon done by hagssFin was deleted last night.

Maybe it was maxwell as he is a mod for this section. So basically anything we write may be altered.

And as for Pangolinminer if they are not authorized why and how are they getting gear from MicroBT?

They have sold m3 m3x and m10


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 18, 2019, 03:24:34 PM
All I was saying is that they were not authorized by MicroBT to do the M20 pre-sale. I'm only talking about the M20 presale that pango launched on their own accord, not about their previous deals. They are an authorized distributor of MicroBT products, sure... but it doesn't mean they launched the pre-sale of the M20 with permission from MicroBT.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 18, 2019, 03:41:05 PM
My posts got deleted last night here too lol.  Also, yes when I spoke to pango on telegram and facebook they kept giving me weird damn answers.  I was told the preorder that just happened basically was for "April sample units" and very few were available.  Then I was told the preorder isn't shipping to July.. which is WAYY far from March.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: mikeywith on March 18, 2019, 04:00:17 PM
these numbers are good, but i sure as hell won't pre-order anything.

i think you should also be considering that fact that S17 could hit the market any time soon, with the alleged 30j/TH we could be looking at 45TH at 1500w.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 18, 2019, 04:12:37 PM
@ Offordscott
Thank you my bad.

@ mikeywith
As for the s17

I have heard  34th 1200 watts tossed around.

If it is truly 30 per chip   at best it does 20 % higher = 36 per chip  or 36 watts a th   which is 1224 watts for 34th

I suspect the s17 will do:

low speed 34th at 1225 watts
high speed 40th at 1600 watts  which is very competitive against the m10 48th

it may be this for the m20

32 th at 1265 watts = 40 watts  a th
48 th at 2300 watts = 48 watts  a th

if the numbers are true above then  m20 vs s17  would be interesting.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 18, 2019, 04:17:59 PM
these numbers are good, but i sure as hell won't pre-order anything.

i think you should also be considering that fact that S17 could hit the market any time soon, with the alleged 30j/TH we could be looking at 45TH at 1500w.

Same here, I was interested when I thought the shipment was April but now that I am hearing June/July no way.  That's like a lifetime in crypto your btc would be tied up.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 18, 2019, 04:25:38 PM
My m10 comes today  it will be number 8

pretty amazing 8 units can do 248th you need 18.4 kwatts of juice.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on March 18, 2019, 04:27:27 PM
Nothing wrong with a pre order, I think we're all used to it here but considering the s15 was already more efficient than the m10 I would expect the same with the cadence of the whatsminer vs. bitmain releases for their new models.

Chances are if you're looking to add hash steadily I imagine the m20 and the "s17" will end up in your farm pending it's size.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: mikeywith on March 18, 2019, 04:37:55 PM
if the numbers are true above then  m20 vs s17  would be interesting

I doubt that it would be that interesting, it's safe to assume "regardless of how much i dislike bitmain" that they will always have better gears in terms of efficiency.

i also like the fact that they keep the number of chips kind low, less total power consumption per miner is a plus in terms of noise and temperature control.

also if it's true the whatsminer will start shipping at june/july then chances are the S17 will hit the market first.

I also personally feel like doing business with bitmain is a lot more smoother. but that's just my own opinion.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fanatic26_ on March 18, 2019, 06:03:03 PM
Dissipate 3.3KW in a single tube is insane.
This miner will be loud beyond reason.

Yes with the 140mm fans it is very loud....but again this is an industrial miner and sound really doesnt matter if they are in the proper settings.

My current M10S test mule has a 118 day uptime right now and has not really had any issues to speak of. Whether the ambient temp is 3f or 60f, it seems to regulate heat well so far with all cards sitting between 74-77c at all times.

I think my favorite part of this unit is the error and event log.

https://pasteboard.co/I61tOWd.png

You can even see in the log the machine does basic troubleshooting on its own, aka restarting cgminer as needed.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Biffa on March 18, 2019, 10:39:06 PM
3 different pre-orders for the M20 at whatsminer.net

M20S – ~72.x Th/s @ 3124W (33124W on the web site, typo?) - $2160
M20V1 – ~48.x Th/s @ 2200W - $1390
M20V2 – ~58.x Th/s @ 3364W - $1485


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on March 18, 2019, 10:55:58 PM
Nice, doesn't seem like the Pangolin numbers were very far off. Unless Whatsminer threw caution to the wind, in the same way that it was said Pangolin had jumped the gun. They may have even over estimated, as they were generally the less expensive of the two. Either way now it looks like a more stable rumour that this is going to be available in ~6 weeks time.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 19, 2019, 12:59:53 AM
3 different pre-orders for the M20 at whatsminer.net

M20S – ~72.x Th/s @ 3124W (33124W on the web site, typo?) - $2160
M20V1 – ~48.x Th/s @ 2200W - $1390
M20V2 – ~58.x Th/s @ 3364W - $1485

wtf m20s is 72th?  and does 3124 watts?   only 43 watts a th!

holy shit "I want it all and I want it now!"   note a line from a song by queen.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 19, 2019, 01:17:42 AM
The 72th version I would def. order a lot of...  It does say **Whatsminer M20S** Batch 1 – Starts shipping July 20-30, 2019.  This is a summer miner, meaning don't expect to get any of these miners until Mid summer.  A way far preorder for this.  I am curious to now know what bitmain has up their sleeves and the price.  72th @ 3300w is damn impressive.  Essentially same as the 48th model but savings in cost.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on March 19, 2019, 01:30:01 AM
Do you think this M20S is like the M10S enlarged 140mm size?

At least Whatsminer has proper unit naming, unlike Pangolin's "everything is an M20".


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: mikeywith on March 19, 2019, 01:49:52 AM
The 72th version I would def. order a lot of...  It does say **Whatsminer M20S** Batch 1 – Starts shipping July 20-30, 2019

it also says this "Please Note: Delivery to Customer will be upto 1-2 weeks after China factory release date"

i think these gears will hit the Chinese market by mid July , which is normal , Bitmain does the same thing,it's a chines thing that they always have to give their Chinese clients a lead, so most likely shipping to non-Chinese would be End of July - beginning of Aug - so these miners would be delivered some where around mid Aug.

these numbers are really temping, but 5 months from now till the gear sits on  my rack is a bit discouraging.

Do you think this M20S is like the M10S enlarged 140mm size?

they say "M20S has a slightly larger footprint then the M20v1 and m20v2 but still maintains its cool in the harshest environments"

https://whatsminer.net/product/m20s-batch1/


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 19, 2019, 02:17:55 AM
Well I am glad I ordered that 8th m10  it will make this wait shorter ;D


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 19, 2019, 04:50:28 AM
I just can't justify doing a preorder in March for a product we won't get until likely beginning of August lol.  That $2000 in btc currently could be worth $1000 or $8000 by august..


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Apprentice on March 19, 2019, 06:10:45 PM
Whatsminer M20 with PSU (72Th/s)!!!

WTF!!


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Apprentice on March 19, 2019, 06:14:54 PM
is this for real?
pic shows it is the same size format, yet pushing 72T and at 3312W.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 20, 2019, 01:00:57 PM
No one knows  but if it is it will be a monster.
In theory I will get multiple  demos  do multiple videos on youtube.
I pay for the demos and have done this for the M3 and the M10.

So you have 2 options

1) wait for the demos so you have an idea what they do.    to do this you must not let FOMO rule you
2) gamble and preorder now. just say fuck it and obey FOMO

Based on the last years from 2013 to now 2019

there were a few godlike preorders:

the first avalon was a great preorder.
the first knc was a great preorder.

I think there must have been 40 bad preorders.
So many bad ones it is hard to count them all.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 20, 2019, 02:33:46 PM
And, of course, my previous post got deleted.

So, batch 1 for July delivery is sold out.

Now it’s batch 2, for August delivery.

It appears that if I mention the *.net website or any price, my replies get deleted by a moderator.

I won't include the pricing for the M20 series miners here, but I'll at least show you that I can offer discounts on bulk orders through the distributor that you all know I represent.

50+ units: $___ off per unit
75+ units: $___ off per unit
100+ units: $___ off per unit
500+ units: $___ off per unit
1000 units: $___ off per unit

You know where to find me. If I mention anything else, I fear this post will also get deleted.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 20, 2019, 02:39:45 PM
Yea this preorder shit is getting ridiculous.  August?  Seriously.  At this point might as well wait to see what the s17 pro is from bitmain.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: NotFuzzyWarm on March 20, 2019, 02:55:47 PM
@offordscott, of course it gets deleted/moved. Being marketing information for your business that info belongs in <drum roll please> the Marketplace...

As for the drawn-out pre-order: No way am I doing that! While I have faith that the M20 will come in on-spec or at least close to it, after Canaan's A9xx flub I'd rather wait to see what the M20 actually does.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 20, 2019, 03:13:48 PM
Alright. Since this thread is located in the mining speculation forum now, the rumors are that pango might be in trouble financially or legally. Sorry, I can not substantiate the claim at this time. Just hearsay at this time.

On a different note, I'm guessing someone like F2Pool bought up the July Batch 1 of the M20 series miners. It wasn't Pango and it wasn't DJ Technologies, that's for sure.

What other rumors are you guys hearing?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on March 20, 2019, 04:11:05 PM
Scott,
Please put some reputable source for that claim.

Because you are also a reseller,
and you are kind of a challengeable in this case,
because such rumours mean more money for you.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 20, 2019, 04:12:28 PM
@offordscott, of course it gets deleted/moved. Being marketing information for your business that info belongs in <drum roll please> the Marketplace...

As for the drawn-out pre-order: No way am I doing that! While I have faith that the M20 will come in on-spec or at least close to it, after Canaan's A9xx flub I'd rather wait to see what the M20 actually does.

Yeah  waiting game is the way to go.



And, of course, my previous post got deleted.

So, batch 1 for July delivery is sold out.

Now it’s batch 2, for August delivery.

It appears that if I mention the *.net website or any price, my replies get deleted by a moderator.

I won't include the pricing for the M20 series miners here, but I'll at least show you that I can offer discounts on bulk orders through the distributor that you all know I represent.

50+ units: $___ off per unit
75+ units: $___ off per unit
100+ units: $___ off per unit
500+ units: $___ off per unit
1000 units: $___ off per unit

You know where to find me. If I mention anything else, I fear this post will also get deleted.

Alright. Since this thread is located in the mining speculation forum now, the rumors are that pango might be in trouble financially or legally. Sorry, I can not substantiate the claim at this time. Just hearsay at this time.

On a different note, I'm guessing someone like F2Pool bought up the July Batch 1 of the M20 series miners. It wasn't Pango and it wasn't DJ Technologies, that's for sure.

What other rumors are you guys hearing?

There is no question that offordscott of whatsminer is a rival to pangolinminer.

Fuzzy brings up that offord is listing his prices so it is a marketplace post which is why posts are getting deleted.
no one working for pangolinminer brings up the prices on the pangolin thread so they are staying.

If a mod can confirm this is what is happening either here or in pm's maybe we can get it sorted out.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on March 20, 2019, 05:56:43 PM
I can confirm as our posts get deleted as well pending sale content.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: NotFuzzyWarm on March 20, 2019, 06:06:33 PM
Fuzzy brings up that offord is listing his prices so it is a marketplace post which is why posts are getting deleted.
no one working for pangolinminer brings up the prices on the pangolin thread so they are staying.

Ja. Best thing for Scott to do regarding sales is just use the sig space to provide links to his site like minefarmbuy does. As long as the post itself is on-topic and useful his post should be safe.

Something that would be interesting to find out is the exact relationships between microBT, Whatsminer, and Pangolinminer. Who actually owns the design? Who backs the production of the miners? Something miner owners who bought through Pango have to have noticed is that the sides of our miners have 2 large sticky areas where labels used to be - were those Whatsminer labels?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: OgNasty on March 20, 2019, 06:12:38 PM
1)wait for the demos so you have an idea what they do.    to do this you must not let FOMO rule you
2)gamble and preorder now. just say fuck it and obey FOMO

I think the choice depends on what you're spending to purchase.  If you're spending USD, any order seems like a smart move.  If you're spending BTC, I think you'll likely be sad when you see what they're reselling for once they've been released.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 20, 2019, 06:19:44 PM
MicroBT, Whatsminer, and Pangolinminer.

As I've stated many times before.... MicroBT is the Manufacturer.

• Pango is a distributor of MicroBT WhatsMiner products.
• DJ Technologies is a distributor of MicroBT WhatsMiner products.
• WhatsMiner.net is an authorized agent of DJ Technologies.

Ja. Best thing for Scott to do regarding sales is just use the sig space to provide links to his site like minefarmbuy does. As long as the post itself is on-topic and useful his post should be safe.

I only have 149 posts in BTC TALK forum. I am not allowed to have a signature space yet.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on March 20, 2019, 07:05:08 PM
Multiposting will not help your problem. If you plan on continuing to use this forum as a platform for sales you may want to review some of the guidelines. While also informing yourself on what your rank can do and what options you have.

Unofficial list of (official) Bitcointalk.org rules, guidelines, FAQ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0)
Forum ranks/positions/badges (What do those shiny coins under my name mean?) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178608.0) See signature resrtictions. You as a jr. member can have one.
You may also want to look into copper membership (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=credit;promote)

I honestly have no issue with you or any other sales reps here, but complaining about moderation when you do the same thing over and over isn't going to help. Neither is trying to spread information about the competition in this way; conveniently done around pre-order time. Here are threads for Whatsminer.net (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122880.new#new) and Pangolinminer.com (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122885.new#new). I would suggest any further discussion not centered around the miners themselves be moved to these service discussion threads. Feel free to let me know if I have any errors in the basic information I put there.



I think the choice depends on what you're spending to purchase.  If you're spending USD, any order seems like a smart move.  If you're spending BTC, I think you'll likely be sad when you see what they're reselling for once they've been released.

I didn't feel great depleting my reserves for hardware but I'm also an advocate for spending BTC as often as the opportunity presents itself. I'm not sold on the long preorder using BTC, but for me it will be cheaper to buy some coin and then order than it would be to use a wire transfer. As long as I continue to accumulate in between, I won't be sad in a few months if the price has risen and it seems I've over-payed for my gear.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 20, 2019, 07:55:30 PM
Ja. Best thing for Scott to do regarding sales is just use the sig space to provide links to his site like minefarmbuy does. As long as the post itself is on-topic and useful his post should be safe.

Something that would be interesting to find out is the exact relationships between microBT, Whatsminer, and Pangolinminer. Who actually owns the design? Who backs the production of the miners? Something miner owners who bought through Pango have to have noticed is that the sides of our miners have 2 large sticky areas where labels used to be - were those Whatsminer labels?

some of mine have labels
some of mine have sticky sides labels removed.

If I was to preorder and I will not preorder I would want to use btc purchased with cash via my bank account.
Or use PayPal with a six month to pay option 0 interest if paid in six months.

My current setup in Clifton costs me no money for mining. Is costs me gear.
I have it filled with a mix of new and old gear.
A lot of m10's I have zero need to preorder m20's for July delivery.
I am better off using old s9's.
If I end up with a lot more  old s9's okay.
If I buy no gear for 6 months okay.

I am at
 546 th in Clifton
   41 th on west coast.
   50 th in my garage
   23 th t15 on the way

By next week the Clifton setup will have  596th maybe 620th  and maybe 8.5 gh for ltc.

˝ that for the power deal

I have 310th and 4.2gh for free power.

A preorder of any  big size is dumb.
I will wait to see what pangolin tells me about the M20 demos I  hope I get them. If Offordscott is right I may not.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on March 21, 2019, 06:11:39 PM
is this for real?
pic shows it is the same size format, yet pushing 72T and at 3312W.

This is probably the M20S which is larger, just like the M10S (55T) is: 140mm vs 120mm fans/tunnel.

Given the asics are now 12nm vs 16nm, it sounds quite logical, considering the regular unit (M20) is 48T.

Will they go 10nm and 7nm nodes down the line? I'll be expecting the M30 and M40 then!


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: NotFuzzyWarm on March 21, 2019, 06:44:09 PM
... Will they go 10nm and 7nm nodes down the line? I'll be expecting the M30 and M40 then!

10nm is a no go as that is just Samsung's version of TSMC's 12nm process (just as 14nm is Samsung's version of TSMC's 16nm). There would simply be no significant gain to justify the process R&D needed.

7nm? Eventually by the end of the year -- maybe.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 21, 2019, 06:53:33 PM
10nm is a no go as that is just Samsung's version of TSMC's 12nm process (just as 14nm is Samsung's version of TSMC's 16nm). There would simply be no significant gain to justify the process R&D needed.

7nm? Eventually by the end of the year -- maybe.

well  a 7nm doing 100th and 3100 watts by Jan 1 2020

maybe more like preorder by that date and a working model by April 2 2020  which would be in time for the next ˝ ing .

I spoke with pangolin via telegram and they will have a 72th model for me to test as an engineer model

maybe by may 15th.  I will be paying for it but get a discount maybe 5-10% off and of course may shipping.

I will post more info on this soon.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on March 22, 2019, 04:53:41 AM
well  a 7nm doing 100th and 3100 watts by Jan 1 2020

maybe more like preorder by that date and a working model by April 2 2020  which would be in time for the next ˝ ing .

I spoke with pangolin via telegram and they will have a 72th model for me to test as an engineer model

maybe by may 15th.  I will be paying for it but get a discount maybe 5-10% off and of course may shipping.

I will post more info on this soon.

Yea seriously, to the 100th model lol.  I can see that happening for next year.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on March 22, 2019, 05:02:13 AM
Yea seriously, to the 100th model lol.  I can see that happening for next year

For years people have said it will be all industrial miners. Looks like it will happen with these monster 3100 watt models.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on March 22, 2019, 10:41:59 AM
For years people have said it will be all industrial miners. Looks like it will happen with these monster 3100 watt models.

480v PSU when? Oh wait, Canaan did release a product with such PSU attached to several units didn't they?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on March 22, 2019, 10:45:35 AM
@Artemis3
OT, but if you mean the Moose,
It has a 3-phase electrical power input, yes,
but it is furtherbdivided to single phase circuits (one line, one neutral, one ground).

It has regular Sorcerer PSUs installed as far as I know?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on March 22, 2019, 04:16:37 PM
I just can't wait till more people run their own servers at home. More than a year off for that though.

Though my hobby mine is only 48th, one newer model will replace all those. One model potentially could double that next year. A 72th unit at the price Pango had is a steal.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on March 26, 2019, 06:46:03 PM
Thanks. I've added more details to the WhatsMiner-specific service discussion thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122880.0).

Here are threads for Whatsminer.net (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122880.new#new) and Pangolinminer.com (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5122885.new#new).

I would suggest any further discussion not centered around the miners themselves be moved to these service discussion threads.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: sarcheer on March 26, 2019, 07:29:54 PM
Scott just provided an estimated shipping date of end of August for batch 2:

Batch 2 for end of August delivery, bulk pricing for the M20 series miners is as follows:

Model TH/sPower W/TH USD Price Cost Per TH
M20v148TH/s2200W46W/TH$1,390~$28.95/TH
M20v258TH/s3364W58W/TH$1,485~$25.60/TH
M20S72TH/s3312W46W/TH$2,160~$30.00/TH


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: rifleman74 on March 27, 2019, 03:58:24 AM
August? Kiss that one goodbye.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on April 13, 2019, 01:05:36 PM
Good news.
First look at the M20S 68 Th/s model is now available,
as a video was posted recently by Pangolinminer.

68 Th/s and a 3300 W power consumption.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5131412.0

Hi Everyone,

First M20S demo unit have been launched yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk0Xhyb4Fs

Specification are below:

Hashrate :68TH/s ~ 74TH/s (still tuning,final version will be at least 68TH/S)
Power Consumption : 3300W~3500W

Chips : TSMC 12nm FINFET

Weight Around 12.7KG

Lead time of first batch will be 2019/8/5 ~ 2019/8/25



Preorder will be available today with below link:

https://pangolinminer.com/product/whatsminer-m20-series/



For the client who order 72TH/s version,

We will compensate you the USD or BTC for the difference of hashrate,

Or it can be turned into more miners.

Compensate will be made after final version of the M20s is released. (During 2019/5/10~5/20).


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: offordscott on April 13, 2019, 01:07:50 PM
Prototypes of the new generation of WhatsMiner mining machines.

These specs will be further refined and improved in the coming weeks.

Video of M20S: https://t.me/WhatsMiner/815

M20S: 68.4T @ 48.45W/T

Video of M21: https://t.me/WhatsMiner/813

M21: 30.5T @ 58.75W/T


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on April 13, 2019, 01:16:41 PM
I will need to look at videos


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on April 13, 2019, 09:40:56 PM
Just replying to you offordscott.

This will be deleted too as it's off - topic.

Pretty sure if you just add to your last post - which was quoted in the deleted post a link to the other site or even that small extra bit of info about 80% down 20% before shipping.

The problem is it looks spammy when you are  cross posting between the 2 threads with just quoting from one to the other.

It's also because you are a sales rep, so it is a bit different than the average user posting links.



I watched the videos and couldn't get a good idea of the noise level. Has anyone seen tested db readings?

I know it will be loud just wanting to get an idea based on what i've dealt with previously.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on April 14, 2019, 06:14:04 PM
Probably in 70+ db range I imagine. Going to be loud for us home miners.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on April 14, 2019, 10:35:25 PM
Back for sale on pango I see.  The 72th version.  Too bad it isn't till essentially end of Aug to receive.  Price is comparable to bitmain s17pro so I'm not sure how I feel about that.

S17 Pro - Max 62th $2300 essentially, ships.. very soon

vs

M20S - Max 72th (Assuming) $2300, ships.. in a rather long time away.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on April 14, 2019, 10:51:16 PM
We'll we don't know when the next of s17's will ship but I hope not a wait till august. So you'd have to buy form a reseller probably for more than $2.3k.

m20s though might be worth the wait for some.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on April 14, 2019, 11:16:11 PM
Back for sale on pango I see.  The 72th version.  Too bad it isn't till essentially end of Aug to receive.  Price is comparable to bitmain s17pro so I'm not sure how I feel about that.

S17 Pro - Max 62th $2300 essentially, ships.. very soon

vs

M20S - Max 72th (Assuming) $2300, ships.. in a rather long time away.

Not soon not for sale any more.

But  I do agree that waiting til August for an m20 is not easy to do.

I have a 45 day rule on a preorder.

My demo  was paid for on march 31  and due may 20  which break the 45 day rule.

They may send it by May 10 which would be a 41-43 day wait.  Still a long wait.

I missed on the s17  which  costs more then you wrote.  It was  2300 + 150 = 2450  while the m20 is   2190 after coupon

So 2450  or 2190     April 25 or August 10   The s17  looks okay if it sells again.

BTW  all this gear sucks  for roi in USA

s17  2450 +  500 = 2950
m20  2190 + 500  = 2690  maybe tax is less in august maybe not

s17  62th  and 2750 watts = 2950     5 s9's  used = 1000 save 1950 USD

set 4 to 13.5 and 1 to 9.5 th = about 63th and 6000 watts

so you save 3050 watts an hour = 2196 kwatts a month at 5 cent power = 109.80 usd a month  takes 17.75 months  to get back the price in power savings

m20 68th and 3300 watts   vs 5 s9s  at full power  say 5 x 13.5 = 68th at 6500 watts that is 3200 watts saved = 3.2 x 720 = 2304 kwatts a month

that is 115.20 a month in savings  and 6th more in hash

you spend 1690    so at 5 cents 14.67 months

So doing the math  the m20 is actually  oct 2020  breakeven against the s9's
the s17  assuming  april delivery  is actually  sept 2020 breakeven  against the s9's

the front loading  of the 62th  say april 20 to aug 20 is tough for the m20 to overcome.

but that is not on batch 3  since there is not batch 3.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on April 15, 2019, 12:51:16 AM
Yea true, both are tough calls right now.  I personally would prefer a m20s due to being a fan of whatsminer lately.  I am not willing to preorder a miner 4 months away though either.  So I got a few s17 pros solely based off the fact of upgrading my current gear.  This months in advance preorder stuff for miners needs to stop.  Getting pretty ridiculous I feel like lately.  Inno is doing it, obelisk, whatsminer, that new strongu miner is also, like common now.. lol


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on April 15, 2019, 01:16:01 AM
Yea true, both are tough calls right now.  I personally would prefer a m20s due to being a fan of whatsminer lately.  I am not willing to preorder a miner 4 months away though either.  So I got a few s17 pros solely based off the fact of upgrading my current gear.  This months in advance preorder stuff for miners needs to stop.  Getting pretty ridiculous I feel like lately.  Inno is doing it, obelisk, whatsminer, that new strongu miner is also, like common now.. lol

I still have a lot of older gear.  It makes money still my power deal is split the coins.

so 30 s9s = 15 s9's for free

my m10's are the workhorse gear.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on April 16, 2019, 10:31:36 AM
Probably in 70+ db range I imagine. Going to be loud for us home miners.

Yeah I figured something along those lines. Guess I'll have to wait and see myself here in May. I might have to build out something at my garage exhaust to deflect the sound a little to avoid unwanted attention; that or LPM if available.

I'm curious to see what shows up closer to 68TH or 72TH, and the power draw. I'm not at all disappointing about the shifting numbers as it seems like they are working to the end to get a solid product out. I just wish that we could hammer down some models by having them listed on the distributor sights permanently to keep track of them. (M20v1, M20v2, M20S, M21) Even if they aren't available ATM, or are sold out.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on April 17, 2019, 03:58:57 PM
From what i have seen the M20S at 70th (3360W) is the reasonable thing to expect, assuming 48w/t. The M21 didn't look good, looks more like the M10 to me, not sure what its purpose is at 60w/t maybe its just an M10+.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on April 19, 2019, 01:22:36 PM
The 21 and the 20 add up to 1800+3300 = 5100 watts. That is a safe load for a 30 amp 240 volt circuit.

Since I have 2+3+18= 23x 30amp circuits pre wired it could come in handy.

Also at 850 USD IT could be lowered under the trump tax 799 is the number needed.

So I may blend the m20s and m21s.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on April 19, 2019, 06:55:53 PM
Yea, it's close to de minimis. I had about 5.2k on one 30a line no issues till LPM's started showing up.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on April 19, 2019, 09:11:39 PM
Yea, it's close to de minimis. I had about 5.2k on one 30a line no issues till LPM's started showing up.

the lessor model  may be a very good home miner.

I was talking with pangolin and they will have a special low power model.  all info to come out in may around the 18th.

I can only offer a tease it will do under 800 watts and under 42 watts a th on low power

all told 4 models  the one above is tied as the most efficient one on low  all 4 models will be under 42 watts a th on low

they vary efficiency on high setting

they all vary hash

highest hash one is 68-70th  which  we know as the m20  I have that coming out to me around may 10-20

we had heard about the m21s  which is  coming out

and there will be 2 others.

I like that each and every one on low is under 42 watts a th


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on April 20, 2019, 03:53:13 AM
Since they are making a "home miner" are they making it quiet too? 19T @ 800W is still better than the R4's 8.5T @ 845W. Sell them under 800$ ftw :)


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on April 20, 2019, 03:56:19 AM
Since they are making a "home miner" are they making it quiet too? 19T @ 800W is still better than the R4's 8.5T @ 845W. Sell them under 800$ ftw :)

Under 800 means under  ;D

I would say well under 800 on low.

On high it will use more then 1500. And use more then 55 watts a th.

I will see when they will release full specs.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: elokk on May 06, 2019, 11:53:15 PM
I watched the videos and couldn't get a good idea of the noise level. Has anyone seen tested db readings?

I know it will be loud just wanting to get an idea based on what i've dealt with previously.

I attended a live demo this past weekend in Boston. Did not have a way to meter db but honestly sounded a bit more quiet than the Antminer s9 (not as high pitch). The fans are larger than the typical 120?mm used on the Antminers. The demo video posted by Pango sounds much louder than the demo unit I saw in person.

Seemed to run at 68T, maybe a bit higher at times, pulling 16.5 amps.

I have a video but too lazy to post on here. Pretty sexy rig to say the least.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 07, 2019, 03:19:56 AM
I attended a live demo this past weekend in Boston. Did not have a way to meter db but honestly sounded a bit more quiet than the Antminer s9 (not as high pitch). The fans are larger than the typical 120?mm used on the Antminers. The demo video posted by Pango sounds much louder than the demo unit I saw in person.

Seemed to run at 68T, maybe a bit higher at times, pulling 16.5 amps.

I have a video but too lazy to post on here. Pretty sexy rig to say the least.

I did not enough time to go to it. I am hoping to get my demo May 10 to May 20.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on May 07, 2019, 03:47:42 PM
I attended a live demo this past weekend in Boston. Did not have a way to meter db but honestly sounded a bit more quiet than the Antminer s9 (not as high pitch). The fans are larger than the typical 120?mm used on the Antminers. The demo video posted by Pango sounds much louder than the demo unit I saw in person.

Seemed to run at 68T, maybe a bit higher at times, pulling 16.5 amps.

I have a video but too lazy to post on here. Pretty sexy rig to say the least.

Please post the vid! ;D


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 07, 2019, 03:56:20 PM
I know it's killing me. On that note I wish there were more Demo/Trade show opportunities north of the border.

It's funny I just started checking the specs out again so I can be prepped for when I get mine, for some reason I thought they moved to the vertical style, but it makes my life easier that they stayed horizontal. I'm happy to hear they went with a larger fan, any reduction of noise is helpful for the home miner. The "major route" traffic only drowns them out so much.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: TheYankeesWin! on May 07, 2019, 05:49:03 PM
I know it's killing me. On that note I wish there were more Demo/Trade show opportunities north of the border.

It's funny I just started checking the specs out again so I can be prepped for when I get mine, for some reason I thought they moved to the vertical style, but it makes my life easier that they stayed horizontal. I'm happy to hear they went with a larger fan, any reduction of noise is helpful for the home miner. The "major route" traffic only drowns them out so much.

Yeah a 140mm  will be lower pitched.

I wonder if the psu fan is bigger.  This psu will be a freaking beast.

In the meantime  coins are testing 6k barrier  right now coinbase is at $5894.00.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: elokk on May 07, 2019, 10:41:00 PM
Please post the vid!  ;D

Here is my lazy way of posting video minus sound because I don't have a youtube account or imgur app on my phone (don't hate on me): https://imgur.com/a/90rkvjU

Video with sound is posted on Telegram if you want to re-post Hagss.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 07, 2019, 11:32:53 PM
Here is my lazy way of posting video minus sound because I don't have a youtube account or imgur app on my phone (don't hate on me): https://imgur.com/a/90rkvjU

Video with sound is posted on Telegram if you want to re-post Hagss.

a shot at 59 second of up time  showed 70th which is  a good number.

when I get mine I will do longer shots and videos.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on May 08, 2019, 04:45:10 AM
Here is my lazy way of posting video minus sound because I don't have a youtube account or imgur app on my phone (don't hate on me): https://imgur.com/a/90rkvjU

Video with sound is posted on Telegram if you want to re-post Hagss.

OK Where on telegram did you post this? Do you use any particular channel group?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: elokk on May 09, 2019, 01:02:33 AM
OK Where on telegram did you post this? Do you use any particular channel group?

Pretty sure you are in the channel already: bitcoinMINING.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: WhyFhy on May 15, 2019, 03:43:44 PM
70TH @ 3300w is a beastly machine. -nvm sweet machine


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 15, 2019, 04:02:57 PM
My demo should be shipping in about 3-5 days


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 16, 2019, 01:16:10 PM
That's good to hear. They didn't sound sure the miners would ship by the 20th when I was chatting with them. Kinda wiped wasted 2 hours troubleshooting the limpy m10 last night, via telegram it was pretty much pointless.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on May 19, 2019, 10:39:03 PM
My demo should be shipping in about 3-5 days

Good, you have a demo coming. I hope for your good fortune and it was 'free' and clear of the below fees.

It is out of reach for most of us in the USA though, even if we THINK 9k BTC plus pricing. With the 25% Tariff and the 2.6% import fee and when you tell us whatever shipping is on a unit.

Not good. I can't even play my USUAL game on equipment 'guessing' of 'at least' I can mine the BTC for purchase back out of the unit via electric... some day. At worse (break even). Not with the above fees. That duck doesn't fly!

(I don't suppose there is ANY equivalent ASIC miner of any flavor, besides (Sia-Tech..yech) that gets around USA tariff?)

Damn, I need a 'cousin' in China that I can trust with a BTC address and a hook to this summer's overabundance of hydropower...in China..as long as I'm making impossible wishes. Instead, all I have as an 'angle' in the USA on crypto-mining of any flavor and such is Philipma1957...sigh....you works with what you have :)


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 19, 2019, 11:15:22 PM
Well the m10s legally avoided the trump tax.  Price of 799 order one a week and you were good.

The m20s are a different animal I am not sure they will avoid the trump tax.

I have 8 m10s

Six = perfect
One has a dead,board,out of warranty.
One is hit or miss when it shuts off. It may or may not restart.

So to say 22 of 24 boards works is close that is about 8% bad. You could argue the 22.5 or 23 boards work as the down time on the one that is hard to restart is under one hour a day.   That would make %5 bad gear a better estimate on my m10s.

My one t15 drops out often.
My one s15 is gold.
My one s17 pro is too new to rate.

Frankly I am happier with the old cheapo s9s and l3s.

At least they are cheap.

I have to check on the m20 as I thought it would ship today.  It is 715 am Monday in China so may ship in 8 or 9 hours.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on May 20, 2019, 12:16:42 AM
So if I am following...$850 there is NO 25% tariff and such on their M21 now? I doubt I'd get one at that price with shipping call it (if lucky) $950 w/o tariff and just the shipping and fees. But, if you think $9k or $9.5k BTC or more is on the way..you probably could at least break even (optimistically speaking)...again, not sure I'd buy..but at least I'd be watching w/o the tariff stuff.

Anyway, clarify, please. Perhaps you mean $799 did not kick the tariff into play. Unsure.

With Bitmain tossing in 88 million dollars into Bitcoin Equipment they have left and the 50/50 split with hydro operators in China, with excess electric this summer, the whole thing is likely moot. That easily could be a 33% difficulty rise. Thus even $9k to $9.5k BTC would not make sense (especially if still tariffs) in any case.

Well, hell, stuff to watch from the sidelines I guess.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 20, 2019, 12:31:02 AM
I think it was any of the units under 800$ were tariff free. I know there were coupons out when they went over 799, that brought them low enough. Iirc it is only the purchase price that matters not the shipping.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 20, 2019, 02:20:22 PM
799 price one at a time the m10's are tariff free.

I got 8 like that. All about 10 to 20 days apart.

Back to the m20's .  May be a delay on my demo  I will post back when I get a full explanation.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 20, 2019, 02:53:22 PM
Yeah I figured there was going to be a delay, when I checked with them last week and they were very low on details. Who do you chat with about it, I'm having a hard time figuring out the best ways to communicate with them. Seems to be telegram, but I'm not sure what Shaun's (might have spelled it wrong) role is there. I'm going to see if I had a name from my communication from when I ordered the demo.

I'm looking to try and have them package a PSU and bridge board to send out with my demo so I can see what part is lame on my M10. It's tough working through the language barrier at times when you throw them a non standard situation.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on May 20, 2019, 03:18:57 PM
And here are some pretty pics:

https://qiniu.microbt.com/uploading/13_dbe4abf9993eb524836302a7a537bc49.jpg
https://qiniu.microbt.com/uploading/13_0271d3bf5d23ddb6ffdcb02597dd737c.jpg
https://qiniu.microbt.com/uploading/13_dcb9e657ef1b7e715df21f6ca61ce570.jpg
https://qiniu.microbt.com/uploading/13_a6a5d659c5adc150875fc37a45c60a3b.jpg

At least now i know what the things are supposed to look like. The M21 is suspiciously looking like the M3, but that efficiency looks like the M10. i wonder why... 16nm chips? The M20 seems to match the 12nm efficiency rate.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 20, 2019, 07:30:57 PM
Yeah I usually talk with Laurent on pangolin telegram channel.

So far no reply but it is midnight in China so maybe a reply in about 9 -10 hours.

Oh my wimpy m10 is not restarting I will try later today.



I pulled the hottest board from the m10  the one with highest hash numbers and set unit to low it did fire up and is doing about 13.00 th on low with 2 boards.  It does sip power under 720 watts.

and laurent got back to me I may get gear shipped very soon


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on May 21, 2019, 02:20:26 PM
Status update:
I'll receive a M20S unit for review in the beginning of June.

I will get on to it as soon as I receive it
and I will keep you guys updated.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 21, 2019, 02:28:36 PM
I have been contacted and told mine will Ship May 31 or June 1.

I will do a youtube on it and attach it to your review.
As always if you want to sell it off after your review I will buy it from you.
I will take it and put it in Clifton Buildout.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 21, 2019, 02:28:58 PM
Thanks Phil that's who responded to my email this time around. I'm waiting on an update for the shipdate as well, not to disappointed though. This way I can get my spare parts for the M10 shipped out at the same time. Just wondering did any of us grab anything besides the M20S, might not be a lot of diversity in these reviews :).



I have been contacted and told mine will Ship May 31 or June 1.

I will do a youtube on it and attach it to your review.
As always if you want to sell it off after your review I will buy it from you.
I will take it and put it in Clifton Buildout.

Pretty sweet deal, to be able to get in on that now. Looking forward to your review as well Hagss.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Biffa on May 24, 2019, 08:10:38 AM
Pangolin have the M20 and M21S on their site now as well as the M20S and M21 they had before.

I think that's the whole range now from MicroBT.

M20S 70Th/s (+-5%). Power consumption is 3360W (+-10%). 48W/TH - $2025
M20 45Th/s (+-5%). Power consumption is 2160W (+-10%). 48W/TH - $1699
M21S 56Th/s (+-5%). Power consumption is 3360W (+-10%). 60W/TH - $1650
M21 31Th/s (+-5%). Power consumption is 1860W (+-10%). 60W/TH - $850

Not up on Whatsminer.net yet but soon no doubt.

But they have been up on the MicroBT site for a while now priced in Yuan https://www.microbt.com/mall/BTmall.html

Everything is Aug/Sep delivery now.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 28, 2019, 01:26:08 PM
Hey, they have 2 distributors you can order from. MicroBT is the manufacturer. It's not that bad once you get your head wrapped around that. See here under MicroBT (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5045732.0).
Pangolinminer.com and Whatsminer.net are the distributors. Hope that helps; unfortunately it's a bit of a long pre-order.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: NotFuzzyWarm on May 28, 2019, 01:52:00 PM
thanks for the reply... do you think microbt.com is a trusted website for the manufacturer?
Yes. The exact address is https://www.microbt.com/


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on May 28, 2019, 02:31:05 PM
M21s has a batch shipping Late July.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 28, 2019, 03:17:56 PM
Yeah it looks like a decent unit.

55 th and 3300 watts but July delivery  price is 2070

vs

70th and 3300 watts but aug/sept delivery price is 2454

We were maxed at Clifton but owner decided to add 65-70kwatts  to the 65-70kwatts we had.

So I am looking hard for more gear.
with coins at 8700+  gear supply has dried up a lot.

I have 1 m20s
supposed to ship the 20th of may
now should ship the 1st of June

I would order one or 2 of these m21s models for July  but not til I get my already late m20s.

I am running 536th at Clifton
and 83th In other locations.   total of 619th

I am due 1 m20s 70th
and 1 or 2 A1041's about 30-60 th

I estimate I need 40kwatts of gear  to fill clifton. If I had the overdue m20s it would be easy to order more from pangolin.
At this point in time I would say they are good to me as a customer but I have seen too much shit happen from 2012 to 2019 to blindly order 10 of these.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on May 28, 2019, 03:54:45 PM
Fast and loose is never a good way to play. Seems all whatsminer demo's are delayed and pricing is going up. I think I mentioned what I'm looking at personally in our dm's phil but hardware is pretty scarce even for resellers making it a little harder to thoughtfully plan upgrades or additions.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 28, 2019, 06:19:03 PM
Fast and loose is never a good way to play. Seems all whatsminer demo's are delayed and pricing is going up. I think I mentioned what I'm looking at personally in our dm's phil but hardware is pretty scarce even for resellers making it a little harder to thoughtfully plan upgrades or additions.

Yeah I may just have to wait for a bit.

Only good news is BTC = 8700+



Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 28, 2019, 09:01:13 PM
I'm still eagerly awaiting confirmed shipping, I spoke to them a few nights ago it's supposed to be shipped this week. I should also be seeing a PSU and bridge board to see if I can get my gimpy M10 to perform like the others. Overall they are not bad, but this delay is bothering me a bit, if June had been the ship or receive date I know I wouldn't have pre-ordered. I'm sure I'll be all smiles once I get that monster in the garage, but until then it's annoying.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Apprentice on May 29, 2019, 07:20:36 AM
Fast and loose is never a good way to play. Seems all whatsminer demo's are delayed and pricing is going up. I think I mentioned what I'm looking at personally in our dm's phil but hardware is pretty scarce even for resellers making it a little harder to thoughtfully plan upgrades or additions.

yeah, thought they are better than Bitm@in but yet they are bumping the prices, and for a 3 month delivery!


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on May 29, 2019, 04:30:09 PM
Demand is up and so is market. Unfortunately units will only trend to higher pricing most likely. 


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: WhyFhy on May 29, 2019, 04:42:05 PM
Sadly, and even if we correct 20-30% prices will remain delayed :(   I sold a s4 for $500 in 2017  s9's where like 3k iirc.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 29, 2019, 04:59:58 PM
yep  I delayed purchasing s17's and t17's  while waiting for the demo model here.

First date was:      May 10 for the demo to ship
Second date was:  May 20 for the demo to ship
Third date is:        May 31 for the demo to ship

I have 1 s17 it runs great. I would have purchased more, but the m20 demo was due to ship may 10 so I waited.
I did this because I was treated fairly well with my m10 gear.

So my choice  means I have less gear for the next 3 to 4 months.

Oh well  shit happens.

Hoping for  gear somewhere as we added 60-70kwatts of power.

I have 10 or 12 kwatts I can do   which means I am short  50-60kwatts of gear.

if summer heat is factored in I am still short 40-50kwatts of gear.

Price took off sooner than I preferred. Happens.

the demo is a 3.3kwatt
maybe some avalons  come and are 3.6 kwatts

that is 7 kwatts  drops me to 33-43 kwatts short.

that is 10 m20's or 13 s17's  would love to have them on the way.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on May 29, 2019, 05:19:46 PM
We were setting up for a demo but DJminer never sent an invoice or payment details. So we'll sit this one out at this point with all the delays.

I imagine manufacturers are going to mine units longer with price up. Bitmain already looking at Oct for next batch release since Sept was last available. T3's are pushed to aug/sept as well. I have my new fan coming and will be ordering another pdu, and probably a couple of T2T's since they ship in two weeks.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 29, 2019, 06:03:46 PM
We were setting up for a demo but DJminer never sent an invoice or payment details. So we'll sit this one out at this point with all the delays.

I imagine manufacturers are going to mine units longer with price up. Bitmain already looking at Oct for next batch release since Sept was last available. T3's are pushed to aug/sept as well. I have my new fan coming and will be ordering another pdu, and probably a couple of T2T's since they ship in two weeks.

It is annoying as I supported them when coin prices sucked.
Buying multiple m10s.

But it is what happens when $$$ get big fast.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Apprentice on May 30, 2019, 03:54:46 PM
did anyone place order from whatsminer.net?
are they legit? they price is cheaper than pangolin


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 30, 2019, 04:28:55 PM
did anyone place order from whatsminer.net?
are they legit? they price is cheaper than pangolin

let me check the link  as one link is good and one is bad.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: elokk on May 30, 2019, 11:24:51 PM
did anyone place order from whatsminer.net?
are they legit? they price is cheaper than pangolin

Whatsminer.net is LEGIT

Scott Offord can assist you if you wish to order from them


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 30, 2019, 11:40:26 PM
Whatsminer.net is LEGIT

Scott Offord can assist you if you wish to order from them

Thank you, I have done a few buys from Scott with no issues.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on May 31, 2019, 02:12:02 PM
I'm surprised we still have issues confirming whatsminer.net they have a thread in service discussion and I've properly linked them in the Competitive hardware thread. Have to find a better way to get the word out I guess.
On the note of these Demo's they had my interest peaked when I got the email asking if my customs form looked good, but no shipping yet that was 2 days ago I guess and they'll be done for the week now. They did update that they have received one at Pangolin on Telegram


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Raymond_B on May 31, 2019, 06:06:11 PM
I wonder what the relationship of the two resellers is? On the Pangolin site if you hover over the Facebook icon the link is https://www.facebook.com/whatsminer/  :) and the Pangolin tag on the FB page is @whatsminer.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on May 31, 2019, 07:50:03 PM
I'm surprised we still have issues confirming whatsminer.net they have a thread in service discussion and I've properly linked them in the Competitive hardware thread. Have to find a better way to get the word out I guess.
On the note of these Demo's they had my interest peaked when I got the email asking if my customs form looked good, but no shipping yet that was 2 days ago I guess and they'll be done for the week now. They did update that they have received one at Pangolin on Telegram

Yeah.

they missed april 25 date  but that was quickly altered via dm before I ever paid coin in.

They missed may 10-may 20  set of dates.

They missed before June 1st date.

MY hope is  any date next week or June 3 to June 7.

In the meantime I got a hold of one t17 to ship next week for a premium price offordscott is doing that deal.

I also ordered 1 t3t39th from innosilicon due to ship in July.

So the wait is on.  A lot of gear to review I hope

Avalon a1041
bitmain t17
whatsminer m20s
Innosilicon t3t 39th

So far of all new gear

the bitmain s17pro 53th = mint gear would like more of them.  but short runtime maybe 2 weeks so far.

all the gear above and the m10 bury the s9.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Huxley23 on June 01, 2019, 11:34:06 AM
I am thinking of ordering multiple M20S from pangolinminer.com. Anyone has any experience ordering from the website? It says that the shipout is late August and beginning of September but I am worried  about the actual delivery date, since each day of delay means a huge loss on my side.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 01, 2019, 03:14:37 PM
I am thinking of ordering multiple M20S from pangolinminer.com. Anyone has any experience ordering from the website? It says that the shipout is late August and beginning of September but I am worried  about the actual delivery date, since each day of delay means a huge loss on my side.

That is really hard to answer.
But here goes I have order from them multiple times.
I would rate them as a B+ would have been an A-

But  they have been slow with  my m20s demo.
They were fast with 7 m10 orders.

Here is the deal asic sellers  that are not crooked  give better service when margins are tight for miners.  The give worse service when times are really good for miners.

The reason is pretty simple  selling gear when btc is 3200 back in dec of 2018 is really hard, but selling gear now in June of 2019 is pretty easy when coins are 8500 and the gear is more efficient then ever.

When I purchased my m20s coins were 4200 and I paid 0.50 btc  coins are hot that same coin now is worth 8500.  So buy and Hold  I would have 2x my value while I wait for the gear.

So if you buy 4 machines right now it is 10201 usd or 1.20 btc

you need to be able to analyze your risks.

First off pay with a bank transfer or newly purchased coins. There is a sound reason for this.  It will allow for hedging your risk.

So lets say you order the 4  with coins purchased today at 8500 price point. 1.20 btc for the 4  units.

first risk is  they never send the gear.  they have an okay track record so maybe it is not that high of a risk.
second risk they are slow.  Aug to Sept means a 60 day window. This allows them to have a 60 free hedge zone. this is not to your advantage.

if coins shoot up to 10k or 11k or 12k  they will not rush to ship and hit the late date sept 28 or so
if coins tank to 5k they will send a bit early  say aug 10  so you like them and may still buy more gear because you have a killer power deal.

You as a miner  have some defenses  against all of the above.
can you do the move below

a spend the 1.2 btc you purchased and get the 4 units.
b buy 1.2 btc hodl it
c put 10200 usd and hold it use it to buy coins if they drop down to 7500 6500 5500 4500  spend 25% at the 7500 level and so on.

if you can do all 3 above  it cost 30,600 usd. and you have leveled the price risk out via  a proper hedge technique.

It is  not that costly to lower the risk somewhat.

But all of the above assumes  you have cheap power and can deal with heat and noise of the gear.

Most of us don't hedge and get burned by guessing wrong.

I do not hedge like I just described above.
But I have 650 th online with 260th in future orders  my hedge is to buy from multiple companies and also use some brokers paying paypal.

My way I never make a perfect score but I never get crushed by 1 bad deal.

I have :

1 t15 due next week  used a broker paid paypal. Most people do not get to do paypal as they are not trusted
1 m20s demo due next week it is about 25 days late I paid in 0.50 in purchased  btc for it.
2 or 3 a1041's coming

1 inno t3t 39 due in july I paid .20 in purchased btc for it

I used coins valued at 8700 there was a price drop in coins to 8200 right after I paid for it I purchased .216 coins  for the same amount.

so  I am 0.016 btc ahead already on the inno deal

you may consider that move if you buy the m20s at 8500 and coins drop to 8000


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: ZimbaCardi on June 01, 2019, 03:39:21 PM
I am thinking of ordering multiple M20S from pangolinminer.com. Anyone has any experience ordering from the website? It says that the shipout is late August and beginning of September but I am worried  about the actual delivery date, since each day of delay means a huge loss on my side.

I bought from them multiple machines with no issues.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 01, 2019, 06:03:15 PM
July batch is the soonest for m21s I believe and also remember manufacturers don't care about selling one or two units as much. Even some resellers for that matter. Maybe it's best to layer your buildout with multiple readiness in releases. You hashing some now will benefit you at market atm. Adding more later will as well. If your power rate is nice you'll be ok to good, if not your still hedging that BTC is trending up. Best to see what you can get now, pre order sparingly when opportunity is right as gear will only get more expensive and harder to get as market gains.

I would assume your power rate is high enough market volatility will play more of a factor. So if you're set on mining ease into it, more you absorb the better off you'll be. Sweet spot for gear recently has been Mar/Apr and a piece of May. Looks like Q3/Q4 will have more units out but again you risk higher pricing. Essentially control you FOMO, think what risks your willing to take and which you aren't.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 01, 2019, 10:33:32 PM
I have been told the demo m20 will ship June 4 or June 5.I got a telegram from laurent today.
I could get it by Friday the 7th but I think it comes on Monday the 10th of June.
Exactly 1 month later then the may 10 date given.

As I said I plan for these delays accordingly. I source from multiple companies and sources.
I use PayPal when a seller allows it.

So  I should have the m20s soon and won't order any gear until then.
I have 2250 + 1880 + 1670 =  5800usd in undelivered gear
plus 3200usd in promised gear =  9000 usd which may cost me 2484usd in trump tax.
I can only take this much risk due to all the gear I already have mining.
Once some of this comes in I can access more moves.

but for now there is nothing for me to do but wait for the m20s.

I delayed getting a lot of them as I fear the power cord it appears that it may be very close to its rated numbers.
This may be a problem.

tripplite makes this cord

https://www.tripplite.com/power-cord-heavy-duty-20a-12awg-12-feet~P040012P30/

https://assets.tripplite.com/medium-image/p040012p30-front-m.jpg (https://assets.tripplite.com/medium-image/p040012p30-front-m.jpg)

image is from their website

Thumbnail (50px, JPEG)View
https://assets.tripplite.com/thumbnail-image/p040012p30-front-t.jpg

Small (100px, JPEG)View
https://assets.tripplite.com/small-image/p040012p30-front-s.jpg

Medium (220px, JPEG)View
https://assets.tripplite.com/medium-image/p040012p30-front-m.jpg

Large (500px, JPEG)View
https://assets.tripplite.com/large-image/p040012p30-front-l.jpg

Extra-large (1200px, JPEG)View
https://assets.tripplite.com/extra-large-image/p040012p30-front-xl.jpg

I think this cord will do the job barely.

If I had better access for testing this unit with this cord making an order of 5 or 10 units would have been easier to do.
the m20s does 3300 watts a 20 amp cord can do 16amps 24/7/365
so 16 x 230 = 3680 watts using the derated safe number. The cord should be good as 3680 is bigger then 3300,
but if volts drop to 220  then 220 x 16 = 3520 watts and if 3300 watts jumps 5% to 3465  it would be very close.

To me  having 10 m20s would be great if:

I know they are good gear
If I know the tripplite cables don't over heat.
If I get them in June
If I pay under 2500 usd each for them

none of that is certain for me..  So I have 1 coming not 5 or 10.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 02, 2019, 12:25:25 AM
Another option but better suited for most pdu's.

https://www.tripplite.com/computer-server-power-extension-cord-iec-320-c19-to-iec-320-c20-6-ft~P036006


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 02, 2019, 12:44:02 AM
Another option but better suited for most pdu's.

https://www.tripplite.com/computer-server-power-extension-cord-iec-320-c19-to-iec-320-c20-6-ft~P036006

My pdus are mostly hp 4 receptacles each one of the four are 15amp.

The main breaker on the pdu is for 30 amp

You can run about 25 amps on the four receptacles but 22 amps never trips while 25 sometimes trips..

Since the individual receptacles are 15 amp max they will not work with the m20s

This is another reason I ordered only one. Not 5 or 10.

I suspect many of us will not be using pdus with this gear.
I suspect we will go right from the wall receptacles to the units.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 02, 2019, 01:34:34 AM
I see, pdu's i'm looking at for my 30A 240 line will have 3-4 20A outlets pending model. Thinking that should run them. But yes my current pdu only has 16A outlets.

Pango also have a youtube demo of the m20s though I can't find the tweet right now with the link.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: ZimbaCardi on June 02, 2019, 02:24:54 AM
You mean this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAARvRZ4-p0


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 02, 2019, 05:15:06 AM
Yeah about 19 hours in 69500gh and 3417 watts.

Power cable looks like a c19 12awg

So it is going to be touch and go to power this gear.

As 3417 watts is very close to max spare load. For that cable.

I may have to run these at lower then top speed.

We have had our volts drop to 216 in Clifton and go as high as 239 volts.

We mostly run at 227.

3417/216 = 15.819 amps. My cables are rated 20/16 amps. Ie 16 amps running 24/7/365

So that is really close for me 16 max 15.819 actual.

If you do less then 210 volts say 208. With my cables you are at

3417/208 = 16.427 amps  and that is over the rating of the cable.

I’m being diplomatic since I have not tested this gear, but I do not like what they did.
I prefer bitmain’s Two power cord solution on the s17 which I have tested.

I do have a source for an audio cable that can do better then the tripplite cables but they are not cheap.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 02, 2019, 03:54:08 PM
You mean this?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAARvRZ4-p0

We'd still be streaming if they sent us a unit. ;)

I do have a source for an audio cable that can do better then the tripplite cables but they are not cheap.

https://www.tripplite.com/heavy-duty-power-extension-cord-nema-l5-30p-nema-l5-30r-locking-connectors~P046006LL30A

https://www.tripplite.com/heavy-duty-power-extension-cord-30a-10awg-nema-l6-30p-to-nema-l6-30r-1-ft~P041008

Might work but close to $40 a cable.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 02, 2019, 04:03:32 PM
the problem is the c19 end as it rates at 20/16 amps  this is borderline if you have  3 phase 208 voltage. fairly common or 210 volts single phase which is not common.

the 20 amp is short term and the 16 amp is constant.

3417/208 =  16.4278 amps    which exceeds  the  16amp 24/7/365 constant duty number.

clifton nj has never been under 217 volts  so we are at 3417/217 = 15.7465 amps  which is good.

the local solar array in howell  is 237 to 242 volts   so 3417/237 = 14.41 amps  that is pretty good.

So anyone getting a large order of these needs to watch for this  issue.

There are a few ways to make sure you stay close to the current amps.

https://www.larsonelectronics.com/product/222271/1-phase-buck-boost-step-down-transformer-240v-primary-229v-secondary-87-34-amps-50-60hz

the transformer above can be wired to boost  11 volts rather then drop 11 volts.

It is single phase.  it can do 83 amps at 240 volts.

But all of this is pretty much a mute point until we start testing them  out in various conditions.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 02, 2019, 04:12:06 PM
https://www.tripplite.com/14.4kw-3-phase-metered-pdu-208v-outlets-36-c13-6-c19-3-l6-30r-hubbell-50a-cs8365c-6ft-cord-0u-vertical-taa~PDU3MV6H50A

might work if 208V, 24A per L6-30 outlet.

Probably be best to get the wire and plugs you need and make your own power cables.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 02, 2019, 04:24:05 PM
Yeah this will be a bit harder to hook up than I thought.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 03, 2019, 07:35:46 PM
M21 July batch listed.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 03, 2019, 09:57:16 PM
M21 July batch listed.

tempting will you be selling them.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 04, 2019, 01:05:52 AM
tempting will you be selling them.

Yea, we should have pre orders open. Still sourced through Pango.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: dogjunior on June 09, 2019, 04:21:11 PM
Will you be able to underclock the M20S? My PUD is 16A for the C20 connection.  So at 208V @16A I get 3328W. This is maxing the circuit. If you underclock the M20S that should give it more headroom.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on June 09, 2019, 04:26:35 PM
I can't say for sure. If it's anything like the m10 then there would be a Low Power mode. I should have mine in the next 3 days- I'll update once it's hooked up.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: elokk on June 09, 2019, 06:17:05 PM
Low power mode is available on M20S, not exactly sure what it drops power consumption to thou


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 09, 2019, 06:35:01 PM
I am sure it will drop low enough to be a non-issue , but mine will come on tuesday and we will check it out.

I can provide a dedicated 30 amp circuit with this cable

https://www.tripplite.com/power-cord-heavy-duty-20a-12awg-12-feet~P040012P30

https://assets.tripplite.com/product-pdfs/en/p040012p30.pdf

this will do the trick for speed testing.

I do suspect  I may run it at  low speed and use this cable

https://www.amazon.com/C20-C19-Power-Cord-IBX-1804-02/dp/B00CFQJ3WI/

with this pdu

https://www.ebay.com/itm/252635-001-HP-24A-200-240-Modular-PDU-Control-Unit-228481-002-Pulled/323472256173?



I ordered  this meter today

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GMZRXE8/

I will get it same day and should get a good reading on the power this beast will use.

I will use it with this cable

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEMA-L6-30P-to-C19-Power-Cord-8-ft-20A-250V-12-AWG-Iron-Box-IBX-4943-08M/223394324234?

which I will splice the meter into it.

It will allow me to properly test higher power gear.

like this.

Down the road I will change test bed  to have 2 plugs  and test as much as 2 x 24 = 48  amps at 240 volts.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Raymond_B on June 10, 2019, 04:04:25 PM
Did you see this on eBay? Might save a few bucks if it's a good meter.

https://ebay.to/2wVsX7n


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 10, 2019, 05:02:03 PM
P3 Killa watt ez works on my 240V 30A line just fine. We can source them and the cable your want for a package if needed.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Raymond_B on June 10, 2019, 05:15:35 PM
P3 Killa watt ez works on my 240V 30A line just fine. We can source them and the cable your want for a package if needed.

Interesting, everything you read says only up to 125VAC???

http://www.p3international.com/products/p4460.html


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 10, 2019, 05:36:39 PM
I have lots of low end kwatt meters that do about 1800-2000 watts.  kill-a-watt will measure to 1800 watts for an hour or two but not 24/7/365

I saw that meter on ebay but I want a meter today and the one I purchased will come today.

It also has a good kit which I will buy later to house it in its own case.

I actually plan to   use the meter

to this panel

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71nBVoD0LNL._AC_UL115_.jpg (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71nBVoD0LNL._AC_UL115_.jpg)

to 2 l30r

and measure up to 48-50 amps.

that is a later project


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on June 10, 2019, 06:11:20 PM
Do you have a better image or link to the above picture? I assume it is some kinda box that is combo meter and shut off valve?

That would be kinda handy to have, in that I have fewer basement miner units, I may put up, (for giggles) and if so running them thru this box may be prudent...

as not to be mining at 'too much' of a loss (before I can use such to heat this winter) for the dreaded 'summer rates' don't ya know.

Besides, it would look kinda cool next to the basement panel. :)

later

brad


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957laptop on June 10, 2019, 07:19:47 PM
just made account this as i am not at my pc.

it is a subpanel it has 2x  30amp 240 volt circuits.  my main panel  is 150 amps it was full no room.  so I pulled 1 30amp 240 volt breaker from the big panel put in a 60 amp breaker ran it to the new sub panel with space for 2 breakers.

So I gain 1 circuit it lets me properly run in the garage for the summer.

i used a 6 gauge cable  from the main breaker to  the sub panel.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/GE-PowerMark-Gold-70-Amp-2-Space-4-Circuit-Indoor-Single-Phase-Main-Lug-Circuit-Breaker-Panel-TL270SCUP/100177812


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 10, 2019, 08:51:43 PM
I am back  and still waiting for the gear.

I can confirm philipma1957laptop is an alt I made today.

that meter has a kit

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31cLlmceRkL._AC_UL115_.jpg


I will build my own case for it down the road.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on June 10, 2019, 09:06:49 PM
Just use a metal Junction box, with a flip lid, mount it inside on the flip lid so the meter part shows...done and done.

https://www.surplussales.com/Cab-RacksHardware/encl_2.html

http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Cabinets-Racks/Enclosures/enc-mg_2_lg.jpg (http://www.surplussales.com/Images/Cabinets-Racks/Enclosures/enc-mg_2_lg.jpg)

At $15 each. This may work. Just grab'd if off google. Did not check the size. But something like that, I'd just spend the $$ and use by the panel

Would be a way to keep track of whatsminer or other miners in the basement for probably more fun than profit at these prices though :(


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 10, 2019, 09:13:53 PM
it will allow me to do testing in house before I bring to clifton nj

and i will be able to go well over 3000 watts with no issues.

The m20 is in the house doing its tuning

and it is up doing 69 th

https://i.imgur.com/eCIlM3M.png (https://i.imgur.com/eCIlM3M.png)

Multiple issues abound.
I could not find it on my d-link router. Address of that router is 192.168.0.1  I have 20 pieces of gear on it.

Must be a conflict I moved it to my trendnet router

Address 192.168.10.1

Put a pc on it and found the gear.

other issue is  it has a firmware error for low speed  only runs high speed.

low speed generates error 201 p20 not found in cgminer.

@ frodo can you merge my thread into this one.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5126286.0

i just locked it.

so this gear is loud 80-84 db

not super high pitched but loud.

it only runs full speed.

I had an issue with my router d-link router 192.168.0.1

but my trend net router 192.168.10.1  was fine  as  i only have 1 pc 1 miner 1 router on it  so no conflicts.

seems to run at 68.8 th temps are 72 c

will give a power readout.

very soon.

2.02   kwatts
3.17   kwatts
1.15    kwatts in 20 minutes test  x 3 = 3.45  kwatt or 3,450 watts   so 3450/68900 = 50.07 watts a th.

tired will be shut this off due to noise will do a movie or 2 on it.

This is complex call  to say it is better then the s17 or worse since I don't have working slow speed firmware.

my new  meter does kwatts

I am doing a 1 hour test.

I was at 6.06 kwatts
after 1 hour I am at  9.43 kwatts

that is 3.370  or 3370/68.6 = 49.12 watts a gh  which is close to last nights test of 50.007  watts a th

here is a gui screenshot  68.6th

https://i.imgur.com/KIqH6fF.png (https://i.imgur.com/KIqH6fF.png)

this is too long of a post

here is a youtube link for unboxing

your video can be found at https://youtu.be/wpyIHm9Z6BE

here it is up and running it is set into a sound proof setup so you do not get to see a good view of it in this video

Your video will be live at: https://youtu.be/jnkELiOSYu4


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on June 11, 2019, 09:44:08 PM
Nice info so far Phil. I was definitely expecting it to be a little quieter, but without the high pitch it might be more inline with what i was thinking overall.

If mine ever shows i can get readings on the power draw real time. I am still amazed that the LP mode wasn't working as a standard feature - mind you these are demo/engineered units.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 11, 2019, 11:37:06 PM
the psu is pushed too hard  so its fan whines very loud.

below is a simple way to exhaust the heat

Your video will be live at: https://youtu.be/Kt7ud68dmSM

it keeps the unit cool and the s9 along side it is cool and the m10  to the far left is dead.  working on some kind of an rma for it.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on June 12, 2019, 02:06:44 AM
Right makes sense the PSU is going hard, I think I remember seeing these are using larger fans to cool the miner. Well I may be a while on those numbers, I have been put on delay again with no ship date in sight due to the ongoing issues in HK. In the meantime I will just continue to tweak my planned sound dampening for when this arrives, maybe move the M10's in there early to see how it handles them.

I imagine if you had 3 machines on that door setup you might be in trouble, seems a tight fit to prevent to prevent the backpressure off the door. Is that M10 the PSU issue?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 12, 2019, 03:12:44 AM
yes it is. that opening can do 1x 30 amp 240 volt circuit.

the box fan tosses a lot of cool air at it.

there is no way it can do more then 4800-5000 watts.

right now there is 3400 + 1300 = 4700

I just took a six hour read 5:13 to 11:13

52.56 kwatts
32.39 kwatts
20.17kwatts  in six hours

or

3.36167 kwatts

or

3361.67 watts  which is a little better then  I hoped.           3361.67/68.678 th or     about 48.948 watts a th

that is not as good as my s17  which does 41.98 watts  at 2225/53   but I paid more for the s17

and my power deal is 50-50

so I get 34.349 th vs 26.5 th   at no power cost.  so for me  either one is good

I paid 2048 for this m20  purchased with coins under 5000
I paid 2225 for the s17 purchased with coins at 5300

the prices I paid the m20 was a little better but I got the s17 30 days sooner. So I earned 30 x 26.5 x 0.00003800 = 0.03021 btc at 8000 =

241 usd   so with that adjustment

m20 2048
s17  1984    s17 is 64 dollars better and loses about 8th in hash or 2.20 a day  so in 30 days the m20 is better

but that is with my 50-50 power deal.

Either one now costs more

If you shipped me one today  I would pay close to 3k for 1

this is assuming import duty cost in all examples above

right now the gear is way higher and you have to wait for it.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Raymond_B on June 12, 2019, 03:51:51 PM
The model numbers and specs you are posting have me super confused, are you testing an M20 or M20S? The Microbt site shows M20 is 45TH and M20S is 68TH.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 12, 2019, 04:00:25 PM
The model numbers and specs you are posting have me super confused, are you testing an M20 or M20S? The Microbt site shows M20 is 45TH and M20S is 68TH.

the name of the model was changed

as I ordered a demo model

named m20 72th
then named m20s 70th
now named m20s  68th

I have the 68.0 th model prototype/demo

or this one

Whatsminer M20S demo units shipment could be delayed due to Hongkong Labor Strike, we will update once restore.

and you would order it here

https://pangolinminer.com/product/whatsminer-m20-series/      note it reads m20  old name but when you open it you see m20s

DESCRIPTION     ADDITIONAL INFORMATION     REVIEWS (0)      FAQ (6)
Weight   12.5 kg
Hashrate   
68 Th/s (+-5%)
Power Consumption   
3260W (+-10%) @ 68 Th/s
Dimensions   
390mm(L) x 155mm(W) x 240mm(H)
Algorithm   
SHA-256
Working Temperature   
-5℃ ~ 40℃
Warranty

so far  I appear to do 3360 watts and 68.6th

on high setting.

low setting generates an error

Code:
]201  p20 not found in cgminer conf

I suspect that is a bad line of code to be fixed later.

If I were the coder in charge I would offer top speed at 65th and low speed at 50th

as I think my unit pushes psu just a bit too hard.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Raymond_B on June 12, 2019, 04:05:21 PM
OK, perfect, thank you. I noticed on Microbt's site they list all the LPM firmware as "coming soon"


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 12, 2019, 05:06:42 PM
yeah I could tell by the error I got that the code for it{low power mode) was left out or botched.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Apprentice on June 13, 2019, 12:38:46 PM
still don't know why they have 2 models with almost the same W but diff THs.

Whatsminer M21S
56Th/s @ 3360W


Whatsminer M20S
68Th/s @ 3260W


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 13, 2019, 04:02:53 PM
the 21s is like the bitmain t17  cheaper to buy but not as good as the  s17

the m20s is like the bitmain s17 more costly to buy  but better then the t15

Having run the m20s using close to 3360watts and getting 68.6 th

it is a beast  it reminds me of this scene in the movie " fast and furious "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtnTZSJndPc

it is an industrial machine  as it sounds worse then any s-9


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Artemis3 on June 13, 2019, 04:13:23 PM
the 21s is like the bitmain t17  cheaper to buy but not as good as the  s17
the m20s is like the bitmain s17 more costly to buy  but better then the t15

Having run the m20s using close to 3360watts and getting 68.6 th
it is a beast  it reminds me of this scene in the movie " fast and furious "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtnTZSJndPc

Well thats disappointing, i expected to see your video of the M20S not a clip from fast and furious...

But you could do a chrome paint job to the case if that makes you feel better.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 13, 2019, 04:16:49 PM
Yeah  I can only run it until about 11pm as I don't want my neighbors to kill me.

I can run the s-9    24/7/365  and it is not as noisy.

We are waiting for  some power work in Clifton I will bring it up to the bigger farm on monday .


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on June 13, 2019, 05:35:10 PM
It is a loud beast indeed! (the M20S 68Ths)

I've mined with all kinds of devices but this one was the first one
which made me startle a little during the startup. :D

Here is a video:
https://mega.nz/#!UgcBhAoY!tXsJnCTid1zHgLzsrEzIoKBQR1u3gPuBGElo-gwaZ8Q (https://mega.nz/#!UgcBhAoY!tXsJnCTid1zHgLzsrEzIoKBQR1u3gPuBGElo-gwaZ8Q)

The numbers are looking great,
about 68Ths, 3.4kW

A further review will soon follow..


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 13, 2019, 06:09:23 PM
It is a loud beast indeed! (the M20S 68Ths)

I've mined with all kinds of devices but this one was the first one
which made me startle a little during the startup. :D

Here is a video:
https://mega.nz/#!UgcBhAoY!tXsJnCTid1zHgLzsrEzIoKBQR1u3gPuBGElo-gwaZ8Q (https://mega.nz/#!UgcBhAoY!tXsJnCTid1zHgLzsrEzIoKBQR1u3gPuBGElo-gwaZ8Q)

The numbers are looking great,
about 68Ths, 3.4kW

A further review will soon follow..

Nice.

Does your low power option work or do you get error 201?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on June 13, 2019, 07:12:30 PM
Doesnt work


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Ambros on June 13, 2019, 09:12:57 PM
Do you know what's the maximum power that can be drawn from the included PSU?  (I was that this is rated for 3350W, looking for the real number)
Is there any room for overclocking? Given the extremely high efficiency it could be worth it


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on June 13, 2019, 10:03:39 PM
3350 W is the max. power capacity at the low DC voltage rail.

It is a server grade psu so it can handle the nominal max. power 24/7/365.


I would not necessarily recommend overclocking this.
It is already pretty damn well optimized for max. performance.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 14, 2019, 12:33:53 AM
My opinion for what it is worth is that it pushes the psu too hard  and should be tweaked 5% lower to 65th vs the 68.6 th I am getting> I think the psu would work better doing 3200 or 3100 watts  vs the 3375 I am doing on mine.

I realize that  ac 3375 x .94 =  3173 dc  so it is not maxed .

Oh it is running here you can log in and see it's hash

m20s

http://ckpool.org/users/16yLHLoeyuCLPMXkVpC3gyrRYvwRGwjKJr

I am running the gear in cool spots  right now I moved it out of garage which was 80f  to the small solar array in howell

that is about 60f  so it does not struggle much as temps are easy on it.

I would think that in a 95f room it will struggle and pull more watts.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 16, 2019, 06:35:48 PM
Looks like 100 unit pricing from pango is displayed. We added a group for july batch with customs support for buyers.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on June 16, 2019, 06:55:50 PM
Looks like 100 unit pricing from pango is displayed. We added a group for july batch with customs support for buyers.

can't find it can you pm link please


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on June 17, 2019, 07:01:58 AM
Can't really call it a PM here so I DM'd ya. ;)

Can't say duties help this but will may help 100 or more get some better pricing and worry free customs support on our tax id.



Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on July 05, 2019, 09:37:28 PM
Well I finally received some tracking info and see it as confirmed shipped. Just over a month late but should have it in hand Tuesday, and online that night if I'm lucky. Almost would prefer Wednesday so I'm home but I've found making any changes to my DHL deliveries is to confusing for the local people; at least it's not -30C outside this time around.  ;D

So I finally got my machine in been busy and couldn't do much more than get it hooked up and hashing yesterday. So far so good, I should have my power meter on it this weekend to get some results but the sound was easily dealt with, i'll take readings of that as well.

Things that aren't so good and need to be discussed with Pangolin, it appears they sent me a 65 TH model - little over 10% below advertised spec when i ordered (72) and 3 TH lower than the model I should have received.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 06, 2019, 04:32:11 PM
Do you have a low power option that works?

Does the 65th use 3100 watts vs 3350 watts?

I for one would prefer a unit using 3100 watts with a bit less hash.

3100/208 = 14.9 amps
3350/208 = 16.1 amps

All the cables I have found rate 20/16 amps

Now our power does not drop to 208 it drops to 216

But

3100/ 216= 14.35 amps

3350/ 216 = 15.50 amps. So my unit is here at the moment close to the 16 amp max for 24/7/365 duty.

My second unit was lost at JFK airport I have a postal trace on it but I have very little hope of recovery.

This will represent the most expensive piece of gear ever lost during shipping for me.

Sucks big time.  But shit happens.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on July 06, 2019, 05:01:23 PM
I'll check that LP mode tonight and see if it takes. I'll let you know how the power draw is as well, just have to convert the plug ends over. So far I've only hooked it up and let it run to confirm the hashrate, had to go out of town so no time to test anything yet.

Quick update: I have no working LP mode. Same as you noted you can select it but it doesn't work.

Code:
Power detect error, can not find power P20 in config

Power meter is hooked up this morning so far looks like 65 TH at 3180W. I'm going to give it a 24 hour run and I'll do a review write-up like I originally planned - considering it is a different spec machine.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 08, 2019, 01:54:26 PM
yours is better than mine

68 th with 3360 watts = 49.4 watts

65 th with 3180 watts = 48.9 watts

3180/208 = 15.288 amps         safe
3360/208 =  16.153 amps     not safe

I use this wire

https://www.ebay.com/itm/L6-30P-to-C19-Molded-Power-Cord-10ft-220V-250V-30A-Ships-Free/202648792458?

it rates to 16 amps continuous duty.

my Clifton NY mine drops to  217 volts

so

3180/217 = 14.654    amps which is well under 16 amp derated
3360/217 = 15.483    amps which is very close to 16 amp derated number

If I had the 30 units I need to max out I would want yours not mine.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on July 08, 2019, 03:08:58 PM
Seems another demo unit rated at 66Ths had a psu fail at stock. Seems MircoBT is working to update the issues with the psu's.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 08, 2019, 03:24:00 PM
Seems another demo unit rated at 66Ths had a psu fail at stock. Seems MircoBT is working to update the issues with the psu's.

Yeah mine is still working.
The other was lost at JFK AIRPORT.

my conclusion on this design is it needs to be backed off.

3000 watts to 3200 would be better. Then the 3360 mine uses.

The c19 plug rates 16 amps for continuous duty.

My experience is 15 amps in a hot room with a ton of gear is safer then 16 amps.

So 15 x 208 = 3120 watts.

Since many have three phase and 208 is common low number for volts.

So pulling  3120 watts is better then the 3360 mine pulls.

I suspect there is a lot of heat at the c19 to c20  connection.

I mentioned my concerns on this unit pulling too much juice. A few times.

Btw the s17 2 plug design pulling under 2800 watts is smarter.

Our mod frodocopper had concerns about these beast psu’s being safe.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on July 09, 2019, 08:03:38 AM
yours is better than mine~snip~
If I had the 30 units I need to max out I would want yours not mine.

I forgot my phone so I can't upload all the screenshots and photos, I'll have all that tomorrow. So far I'm happy enough with the unit as it's almost the perfect machine to fit what I have available. I've noticed the power draw from 3180 - 3260. I did a grab at 12 hours, which will have an average temperature of 25C throughout the day. It was doing 65 TH based on the status page. The noise came in between 66-74 db depending on where I held the meter. It was a phone app so nothing crazy. I don't have a link to the cables I'm using at the moment the site is down; I do tend to go with something overrated to avoid issues.

Mine      3220W @ 243V (avg) = 13.25 amps 13.4 if 240V
            3220W @ 208V         = 15.96 amps      Still okay rated at 16 amps but barely and with potential spikes on warm days.
Clifton   3220W @ 217           = 14.83 amps      Fine with room to spare

In regards to the PSU's. I think they are going with something beefier as opposed to detuning the machines. I was talking with Laurent about the machine to sort out my missing hashrate, and they mentioned sometime in the future being rated to 277V. 


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 09, 2019, 11:30:16 AM
thats better a slightly better psu hopefully with the 2 plug design used by  the s17

and wonders never cease  my  missing m20s has been found in JFK airport!  it may arrive on thursday.

I will be adding

2x a1041's   = 63
1x t17          = 39
1x inno t39   = 35
1x m20s       = 68

total of 205  to my 675 = 880 in clifton

and 46 in  washington  or 926th


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: TheYankeesWin! on July 10, 2019, 04:18:39 PM
Phil I read the post office lost the second m20s at JFK airport has it shown up yet?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 10, 2019, 04:22:23 PM
yes I have it now.  Testing it as it arrived with a broken fan.  Here are 2 screen shots

https://i.imgur.com/8k6Q3KL.png (https://i.imgur.com/8k6Q3KL.png) https://i.imgur.com/5LI9Jzk.png (https://i.imgur.com/5LI9Jzk.png)

I used an m10 120mm fan
I used a 120mm metal fan plate from an old s7ln
I taped the 120mm mount plate to the stock bent  140mm plate that came with unit.

I attached the 120mm fan to the 120 metal plate
I attached the stock 140mm plate to the m20s

and boom  a high volume high rpm fan  with same 5 pin power cord replaced the broken
140mm fan.

now about 26 mins in

and

FanSpeedIn   = 5,370
FanSpeedOut = 5,760

temps
Temperature
SM0  73.50
SM1  71.00
SM2  72.50

firmware keeps board under 75 if it can.
both fans can do 7200 rpm

So it has head room  until they send me the custom 140mm 5 pin fans.

I had 4 of these on hand

https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-fan-set-m10/

HAGGSFINN thinks this one below is the 140mm

https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-fan-set-m10s/

and that it will work for the m20s gear.

an m20s 140mm 5 pin on left  an m10 120mm on right

https://i.imgur.com/bPKn0Qk.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/bPKn0Qk.jpg)

bad stock fan on left good one still intact on right note the s7 ln in background

https://i.imgur.com/Bau2sR6.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/Bau2sR6.jpg)

repair with m10 replacing m20s fan note the yellow tape it joins the 120 mm mount plate to the 140mm mountplate

https://i.imgur.com/SFaBgZS.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/SFaBgZS.jpg)

so a custom 5 pin 140mm fan  is a shitty idea on some levels

as a 2000 usd machine would have been offline until a replacement was shipped.

I was lucky to have the m10 fans on hand as I own 8 m10 units and have purchased about 400-500 in parts for them just in case.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on July 10, 2019, 08:45:45 PM
Wonder if you can use a shorter fan screw on broken edge?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 11, 2019, 10:42:04 AM
side of the frame is cracked

the fan does not spin true.

I have confirmed this  set of fans works

https://pangolinminer.com/product/miner-fan-set-m10s/

it is a pair I will have 1 extra

BTW  usps  says I never got the package!

https://tools.usps.com/go/TrackConfirmAction?tRef=fullpage&tLc=2&text28777=&tLabels=CE902010504FI%2C

a-holes!

At Haggs I will send coin  later today please send me your BTC addy.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: HagssFIN on July 11, 2019, 02:33:45 PM
Yeah,
it was a real mess with the USPS...

I sent it to Phil via Finnish postal service Posti and it arrived at JFK airport in June 24.
Then there was a long pause in the status update and I was affraid that it is lost or stolen at the JFK airport for good.

I'm so happy that Phil received it after all,
but I'm sad that one fan broke during the shipping.

Thankfully Phil found a temporary solution to start the mining,
and I will supply him with a spare fan set.

@Phil, sent you a PM.

I don't know if this is a bit too much offtopic,
but I just want to say that sometimes the logistics can be a huge pain in the ass in bitcoin mining! :D


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 11, 2019, 09:27:03 PM
Back to the m20s

I am now running 2 and they are pretty amazing units.

Basically 10 s9s in the space of 2. Use about 6700 watts combined doing 139 th at the pool.

What would I do with these if a designed them?

Two things either clock them to do 64th and pull 3125 watts.
Much safer load for the psu to do.

Barring that idea. Beef up the psu's make them use 2 c19 plugs.and make them able to do 4000 watts

You could squeeze out maybe 71th that way with no danger of overload to the c19 to c20

Connection.

They are the loudest miners I have owned about 85db


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: TheYankeesWin! on July 13, 2019, 12:59:16 PM
Looks like they listened to you phil ;D

It now comes it 3 different top speeds

https://pangolinminer.com/product/whatsminer-m20-series/

68th = 2835 for 1 to 20  Nov delivery

65th = 2710 for 1 to 20  Nov delivery

62th = 2589 for 1 to 20  Nov delivery


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 13, 2019, 01:08:35 PM
https://pangolinminer.com/product/whatsminer-m20-series/

yeah  and if you buy 20  they discount.

62th 1-19 = 2589   but  20+ = 2354

I would buy this if it came by sept 15 but nov 15 shipout  is  123 days from now that is a long time.

My 2 m20s should mine   .35 to .46 btc in that time frame.

as 138 x 123 x 0.0000276 = 0.46848    and with diff it may be as low as 0.35


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on July 13, 2019, 01:17:21 PM
Must be early for some reason I thought you were posting Power consumption.  ;)
I'm pretty sure this has been in the pipeline going back to when they changed the specs from 72TH to 68 TH. I know the Demo unit I received should have been a 68 but wound up being a 65. When I was doing up my review I came across the various models they would have - I still think the 65TH model is probably the sweet spot for now. Time will tell if it's just to much for the one power connector or not.

Yeah the November wait times is just to much. Especially considering for me that's the time of year I start to run less efficient models for home heating, so I'd be better off sourcing another M10 in the meantime. I do feel like I have a hole to fill looking at the my 1 PDU supporting 1 machine.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 13, 2019, 06:05:44 PM
Does your mineral wool make dust in your sound proof tunnel?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: fccs on July 14, 2019, 11:01:03 PM
The funny thing is, now I'm sort of more interested in this.  62th @ 2976watts essentially makes this a pdu capable unit.  That's basically right around 12amps which is the safe zone for plugging into a 240v pdu that has 15amps each side.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on July 14, 2019, 11:10:23 PM
Yeah I have more l6-30r receptacles and can run a l6-30p to c19 cable but I do have other gear.

My four panels can do

225 amps  9 receptacles

225 amps  9 receptacles

250 amps 11 receptacles

250 amps 11 receptacles

Have to check the two new ones. I know running 20s direct seems wasteful but if they do 3000 watts

They would be good for me.  I may get a third unit the m21s. Which is a bit of a power hog like the T17 is compared t9 the s17.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Biffa on August 10, 2019, 12:25:54 PM
All new batches on web sites are now pushed out to December


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 10, 2019, 12:54:15 PM
All new batches on web sites are now pushed out to December

great  things get worse not better.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on August 10, 2019, 05:36:25 PM
great  things get worse not better.

This is why we never can have 'nice' things anymore! :(


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on August 10, 2019, 10:50:10 PM
Planning is getting harder not easier and all the surplus MicroBT had from their latest release is gone as well.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 10, 2019, 11:55:54 PM
Planning is getting harder not easier and all the surplus MicroBT had from their latest release is gone as well.

I have to simply do nothing.  I have sat and checked all prices on all units.

from bitmain innosilicon whatsminer and avalon.

the best item to buy is the s9k for 310 new from bitmain  buy 2 you are under de minimus at 798 with the shipping.

something is wrong here with every company as they are pricing  the 'good' gear far too high and far too long of a wait.

So much so that a 5 cent power guy should buy the s9k direct from bitmain in sets of 2 to legally beat the trump tax.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on August 11, 2019, 12:46:57 AM
The question I have is why are they driving the price up so high, I mean all the mnfg's are frigging doing it!

Do they see FOMO as their salvation?

Is it the fact that IF you are not in the USA and/or not in a VAT country, you can clean up on ASIC miners with these prices...in addition to saying these same countries are in the 4c to 6c kWh electric range? Could the demand from NON-EU VAT countries and the USA etc have such a demand on prices to make up for the fact the USA and a lot of EU buyers are not out, and the countries above are in full FOMO and such, allowing the mnfg's to drive up prices?

I just don't get it, been bothering me on wtf is going on for weeks now.

So anyway, perhaps is a hole of mining FOMO that needs to be filled, and is being filled by countries without VAT and/or tariffs like the USA. The current manufacturer's of ANY ASIC miner flavor, have all seen this, and are jumping full boat on this FOMO and assumption of price pump, just by seeing the numbers, indeed I'd guess they are NOT seeing their sales slow down, thus raising prices, thus where we find ourselves now.

I just wish I had a handle on an 'honest broker' in a far east country with decent hosting and electric prices.  Took me years to find such in the USA, doubt I'd pull such an overseas trick.

But again, somebody either knows or is assuming a lot of stuff that I am not, or some of my meanderings above are in play, but yeah, I just don't get it.

Sorry about off-topic this will likely get deleted..but this is a concern on ANY miner purchase anywhere.

You add the frigging 36.7% tariff with import fees and I am (on top of the above) beyond flabergasted

whatever...end of rant

brad


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: ZimbaCardi on August 11, 2019, 08:30:47 PM
the best item to buy is the s9k for 310 new from bitmain  buy 2 you are under de minimus at 798 with the shipping.

Is that with the PSU of $85?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 11, 2019, 09:29:55 PM
Is that with the PSU of $85?

Good question I have twenty psu’s on hand.

So if you want  psu’s buy them on eBay for 65 bucks or amazon for 65

That won’t affect de minimus. So to be fair you may need to add some cash in for a psu.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: minefarmbuy on August 12, 2019, 05:30:30 PM
Since the PSU ship later you can create the order as you'll get units then psu's and will be under de minimis both shipments. Though you won't be mining till the latter arrives.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: xxxABJxxx on August 15, 2019, 07:45:19 AM
Has anybody tested the M20-45 with 8NM Samsung chips? I am very interested in this gear.

Seams is the best choice at the moment. But price is very high and delivery is in December. Maybe I become 0.5 BTC in December for 2000 USD. I have this time the same feeling as in November 2017. Bitmain sells the s9 for high price with delivery in late February.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 15, 2019, 11:59:18 PM
Has anybody tested the M20-45 with 8NM Samsung chips? I am very interested in this gear.

Seams is the best choice at the moment. But price is very high and delivery is in December. Maybe I become 0.5 BTC in December for 2000 USD. I have this time the same feeling as in November 2017. Bitmain sells the s9 for high price with delivery in late February.

Well if buying the m20 for 1890 usd in dec turns out to be bad

Buying the s17 pro for 2875 usd in dec would be worse.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: xxxABJxxx on August 18, 2019, 07:51:00 AM
Seems OK.

If BTC price rise, it is good to have one of the best gear.
If BTC price drop, hashrate drop and you can earn more BTC.

I order two M20S-68 and one M20-45 on pangolin, plus become a small coupon.

December is so far away 😭.



Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: favebook on August 18, 2019, 11:21:28 AM
How did you acquire the coupon?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 18, 2019, 12:07:25 PM
it shows up on website of pangolinminer.com

NAKAZAWA   in the amount of $15


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: favebook on August 18, 2019, 01:47:10 PM
Oh, that small one. I noticed it, but I thought there was bigger ones. Thank you!


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Steamtyme on August 19, 2019, 01:31:57 PM
The bigger coupons only came out when sales were slow. I think the last one I used was at the end of January, maybe February. It's nice to see they still have the little one on the site full-time. I don't think we'll see any deep discounts until next year at least considering the pre-sale market we're in now.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 20, 2019, 03:06:12 PM
The bigger coupons only came out when sales were slow. I think the last one I used was at the end of January, maybe February. It's nice to see they still have the little one on the site full-time. I don't think we'll see any deep discounts until next year at least considering the pre-sale market we're in now.

Have to agree with this.  The question for me is  do I order the m20  and wait for 120 days.  A long wait.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: favebook on August 20, 2019, 03:42:50 PM
That is the same question that has been bugging me for quite some time... In my opinion it looks like summer is the worst time for ordering and end of winter and beginning of spring is the best. So I am going to wait for at least January.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on August 20, 2019, 04:15:41 PM
Well, my Xcel utility went nuts. My summer residential rates are 17.59c kWh now, I mean a 6c increase in 2 years? sheesh.

Home mining for me is deader than dead! :( Data Hall is 9.5c-10c kWh. That boat doesn't float too well. And of course, as you state the 120 days wait on a Whatsminer M20 indeed. In case your pre-order is longer than 120 days. (That never happens right?)

Then with the Whatsminer M20 may be late on the pre-order. When you add the USA tariff to this at 27.6% it gets very ugly. If you take into account that maybe after December 15th, 2019 the tariff could go up another 10% if again, your pre-order is a bit late. Well ugly indeed.

Then lastly, of course, is the price, which for the value of Bitcoin and the pre-order 120 days is more than a bit too high for this Whatsminer M20, well that is quite a list above. I should re-phrase that WAY, WAY, too high, IMHO!

So assuming (guessing) philipma1957 can not justify any of this at (again I think his electric cost is this) 8c kWh or so? I'm so out of the running on this, I'm in the grandstands watching this ASIC blood sport and way, way out of this arena! So I am reduced to following Philpma1957's actions like an ASIC fanboy, just to at least have something to do.

I'm sure not getting anything this year, the way it looks like at the moment.

Brad


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 20, 2019, 05:33:30 PM
I am 50-50 coin spilt   So my gear always earns  but  lets do some math.

45th /2 = 22.5th for free  current earning rate is 0.0000241 a th

so 22.5 x 0.0000241 = 0.00054225 btc a day  x 10,700 = $5.80 a day.  so a 1850 usd unit + 150 =  2000 + 500 trump tax = 2500/5.80 = 431 days.  I will pretend price increases slowly as diff equals (who knows what happens for sure).

So I am looking at 431 days of mining and 120 days of waiting. or 551 days.  The gear price is too high as is the waiting time for it.

I was sold a 21s for 2500 got it aug 1st     it is 56th  and it mines now  it will take  333 days to break even.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: favebook on August 25, 2019, 07:58:22 PM
I was looking forward to your answer(even though I wasn't checking the forums this week)....

I totally agree with you and I liked your calculation, it saves me a lot of time, so thank you for that!


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: Searing on August 25, 2019, 10:19:31 PM
I am 50-50 coin spilt   So my gear always earns  but  lets do some math...

How does this 50/50 work? Just for my education, I doubt it works now.

You buy the equipment and the data hall provides the power?

I assume you take the most risk on this because the Equipment has to ROI for this to make any sense to the data hall guy.

If the equipment you get doesn't float the boat he is not gonna pay electric at a loss.

I assume also, as partners you get his 'real' rates he pays himself for accounting purposes, etc.

Anyway, not like this is gonna work in the near future IMHO.

But is this something like the above or are their other 'catches'?

thanks, interesting take, assuming anything I said above has any merit on my guesses

Brad


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 25, 2019, 10:38:04 PM
It works great for me if I do all s9s.
It works like shit for him if I do all s9s.

It works great for him if I do all s17 pro gear.
It works meh for me if I do all s17 pro gear.

He has zero risk on gear purchases. I have zero risk on power.

The trick is to blend new and old gear to make it good for me and good for him.

Our mix is 700th newer gear and 216 th s9s.

This blend is okay for him and good for me.  Mostly because I can’t fill to 150kwatts we are at 105-110 kwatts.

I need a decent deal to fill out the remaining 35-45 kwatts.

I have 5 kwatts to add.  So I need maybe 40.

It could be the m20 say 15 to 20 of them. But not for the current price and wait til December.

For that deal to Be okay I need the gear sooner then December.


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: wndsnb on August 26, 2019, 12:58:10 AM
50/50 split deal seems dangerous. Would your power guy take a loss to uphold his end of the deal? Or would he just shut it down and send you your gear back? Seems overly stressful since you need to make decisions about what gear to buy and what's good for you is not good for him. Gives me a headache just thinking about it.

I assume you know his operating cost and are making decisions based on that to keep it profitable for both of you?


Title: Re: Whatsminer M20 is announced and available for pre-order
Post by: philipma1957 on August 26, 2019, 01:36:22 AM
What has happened is the newer gear has gone so far up in price  I can't justify buying any new gear.

We are okay for now his profit margin is still plus.  and at this point I will have all 900th paid off. sept 1st.

I could afford to shift deal  if he goes red. ie  60-40  for him.
He is 3 cents.

The power bill is about 2268  he earns about  0.01 btc a day or .30 btc a month  about 3100

he also earns 0.1 ltc a day or 3 ltc a month or  215   usd   so his net is about   3315-2268 = 1047 a month

me and buy solar's net is 3315.  we have almost fully paid off  all gear.  payoff for all gear on hand will be sept 1st.

people don't realize how hard mining is .  the hoster is at 3 cent cost.  and makes 1000 a month or 12,000 on the year.  we will earn about  12,000  from sept to dec.

and at years end have  a lot of gear.  that will need shutting down.  the s9's and the L3+  will all get turned off by jan 31.

so  25 l3+ and 22 s9's  will be shut off.  about 11gh and about 220th  using around  18 + 23 = 41 kwatts  giving us  only 65kwatts burning out of a possible 150.  But I can't justify buying newer gear at stupid high prices.



forget trump tax. forget my deal

the s20 is 45 th at 48 watts a th or 2160 watts.  it earns  45 x 0.0000242 = 0.001089 btc a day or 11-12 bucks

2.16 x 24 = 52 kwatts a day is  2.08  usd so 12-2.08 is 10 bucks a day 1830+120 = 1950 /10 = 195 days  and wait 110 days till you get it   so 305 days to roi  with 4 cent power and no trump tax.  is okay.  but if you are in the USA good luck getting that deal.  most people simply can't get in the game.