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Alternate cryptocurrencies => Altcoin Discussion => Topic started by: Cryptorwellian on March 20, 2019, 06:52:27 PM



Title: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Cryptorwellian on March 20, 2019, 06:52:27 PM
It's happening more often than usual lately.

A few days after a coin shows exceptional growth, it's being taken over by groups who use bots to throw up massive sell walls.

These sell walls are different than before.

Until lately, a sell wall would look like one or 2 massive amounts of sell orders you "can't pass".

The new form is less visible for the untrained eye.

As soon as medium to big  buy orders are placed, there are numerous midsize sell orders placed to counteract any possible growth.

Good examples of  this week are Enjin (ENJ), which started to show these traits last week.

From yesterday Stellar (XLM) got the same treatment. Thou shall not pass.

The only thing these groups (of whales and bots) want, is to make it impossible for anyone holding the coin to sell it for more than their set pricelimit.

This way, people who hold the coin, will either hold, or (in most cases), sell it for a way lower price than it's currently worth, to "get out".

The group throwing up the wall immediately buys up that dumped coin, adding it to the wall, increasing the main problem even more.

Only way to break through this problem, is to get a few big whale HODLERS in, but especially :

DON'T UNDERSELL YOUR COIN, just hold, cause when the wall resolves, prices jump massively. Just hold!

This practice in its new form is seriously hurting progress of prices for everyone.

It looks outright ugly.





Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: peter0425 on March 20, 2019, 06:57:56 PM
But what can we do? It's a free market and everyone has some dirty tricks up their sleeves. As fraudulent as it can be, we can't do anything to stop it. I also been suspecting that bots are really triggering this some kind of "pulling" of the price of most crypto, specially bitcoin. See how it's been struggling to even touch $4k? and now that we touch it, no movement what so ever, maybe they are waiting for something like to go to $4200 before triggering their bots again.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Baofeng on March 20, 2019, 07:01:48 PM
But what can we do? It's a free market and everyone has some dirty tricks up their sleeves. As fraudulent as it can be, we can't do anything to stop it. I also been suspecting that bots are really triggering this some kind of "pulling" of the price of most crypto, specially bitcoin. See how it's been struggling to even touch $4k? and now that we touch it, no movement what so ever, maybe they are waiting for something like to go to $4200 before triggering their bots again.

Exactly, this is just sad. However the best way to fight this off is just HODL on our coins and not go with the flow because for sure those manipulators will just eat you alive specially if you are new in this business. And that is why bots are not really recommend for beginners, well its supposedly automatic, but you still need to see the correct parameters But do you know what parameters to set, the answer is that if you have experience trading before, not using any bots but the old fashion way of trading.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: chocopapaya on March 20, 2019, 07:04:59 PM
I've seen this before.
It's pretty crazy to see because the bots are automatic.
So you literally see all these buy/sell orders pop up instantly.
(on a side note, another annoying bot is the one that will undercut every sell order the moment it gets placed)

The good news is, I think this tactic is only working now because the market is so bearish.
This would never work if the market was like it was in 2017 or even the first three months into 2018.
The sheer trading volume going on would crash right past it.

For now, you basically have 2 choices: hodl your coin or go for smaller set percentage sells.
For example, selling your coin at a smaller volume (spread over different exchanges if needed) when it hits your specific percentage growth.
Like 5 - 7% growth for example.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Cryptorwellian on March 20, 2019, 07:08:39 PM
I've seen this before.
It's pretty crazy to see because the bots are automatic.
So you literally see all these buy/sell orders pop up instantly.
(on a side note, another annoying bot is the one that will undercut every sell order the moment it gets placed)

The good news is, I think this tactic is only working now because the market is so bearish.
This would never work if the market was like it was in 2017 or even the first three months into 2018.
The sheer trading volume going on would crash right past it.

For now, you basically have 2 choices: hodl your coin or go for smaller set percentage sells.
For example, selling your coin at a smaller volume (spread over different exchanges if needed) when it hits your specific percentage growth.
Like 5 - 7% growth for example.
I admire your positivism. Thanks for that, because you're right in some ways.

We need more bull and less bots ;)


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: jmiller4180 on March 20, 2019, 07:10:43 PM
The only way to get past this just like in stock markets is volume. If there isn't volume it is easily manipulated by these bots.

With volume, bots have a hard time keeping up and adjusting to all of the action which sometimes ends up with the person controlling the bots to actually lose money/value because the bots are not fast enough.

You can sometimes fight the bots by doing small transactions.

I think the problem with alt-coins is that there are just way to many. Like everyone and their grandma has created an alt-coin. It really gives the crypto currency a bad name, and it takes attention away from real game changers, real alt-coins looking to revolutionize currency and transactions. Exchanges/Markets need to stop accepting everything and maybe have some sort of qualifications to get listed. Qualifications like proof of concept and real world application of the coin, etc.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Cryptorwellian on March 20, 2019, 07:17:38 PM
The only way to get past this just like in stock markets is volume. If there isn't volume it is easily manipulated by these bots.

With volume, bots have a hard time keeping up and adjusting to all of the action which sometimes ends up with the person controlling the bots to actually lose money/value because the bots are not fast enough.

You can sometimes fight the bots by doing small transactions.

I think the problem with alt-coins is that there are just way to many. Like everyone and their grandma has created an alt-coin. It really gives the crypto currency a bad name, and it takes attention away from real game changers, real alt-coins looking to revolutionize currency and transactions. Exchanges/Markets need to stop accepting everything and maybe have some sort of qualifications to get listed. Qualifications like proof of concept and real world application of the coin, etc.

Good Point.

How about a coin that is (more) resilient to manipulation?

For example, put in a delay factor.

The bigger the transaction, the more delay.

A whale's nightmare.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Cryptorwellian on March 20, 2019, 07:22:04 PM
STELLAR price is glued / fixed at $0.1097 right now, it looks ridiculous

https://www.binance.com/nl/trade/pro/XLM_ETH


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: jmiller4180 on March 20, 2019, 07:22:49 PM
The only way to get past this just like in stock markets is volume. If there isn't volume it is easily manipulated by these bots.

With volume, bots have a hard time keeping up and adjusting to all of the action which sometimes ends up with the person controlling the bots to actually lose money/value because the bots are not fast enough.

You can sometimes fight the bots by doing small transactions.

I think the problem with alt-coins is that there are just way to many. Like everyone and their grandma has created an alt-coin. It really gives the crypto currency a bad name, and it takes attention away from real game changers, real alt-coins looking to revolutionize currency and transactions. Exchanges/Markets need to stop accepting everything and maybe have some sort of qualifications to get listed. Qualifications like proof of concept and real world application of the coin, etc.

Good Point.

How about a coin that is (more) resilient to manipulation?

For example, put in a delay factor.

The bigger the transaction, the more delay.

A whale's nightmare.

I think that is a decent idea. It may be hard to implement though, and I am sure there are tons of things that would need to be factored if doing it that way. Exchanges may be able to put in some sort of monitoring to check for pattern behavior and maybe log out bots so they have to log back in or something. I doubt anything will ever be done as it would just cost to much and it doesn't hurt the exchanges really so why would they care.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: jumiapaul on March 20, 2019, 07:37:22 PM
It's unfortunate that all we can do is watch as the prices are influenced with bots and whales taking advantage of their resources to manipulate the prices. It's indeed a free market and everything is possible.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: LUCKMCFLY on March 20, 2019, 07:37:53 PM
Those behaviors are very common to see, not only in Stellar but in many Altcoins more, those walls are very large, many times the operators do it to protect their established positions and that somehow manipulates the price to absorb the massive purchases, this is for them to buy cheap.

But when observing for a long period of time, many times those walls are removed, and they begin to segment, when they detect that a whale comes in and they react by removing it and putting it in several sale prices, it is very common to see them, that's what it is the market, everyone has their strategy.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: ePesoInitiative on March 20, 2019, 07:46:18 PM
But what can we do? It's a free market and everyone has some dirty tricks up their sleeves. As fraudulent as it can be, we can't do anything to stop it. I also been suspecting that bots are really triggering this some kind of "pulling" of the price of most crypto, specially bitcoin. See how it's been struggling to even touch $4k? and now that we touch it, no movement what so ever, maybe they are waiting for something like to go to $4200 before triggering their bots again.

The bots have their masters. And the masters have their technical analysis on what price to buy and what price to sell. It is still humans buying or selling however they manipulate the markets. It just goes to illustrate one cannot simply trade without some training.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Cryptorwellian on March 20, 2019, 10:03:12 PM
Those behaviors are very common to see, not only in Stellar but in many Altcoins more, those walls are very large, many times the operators do it to protect their established positions and that somehow manipulates the price to absorb the massive purchases, this is for them to buy cheap.

But when observing for a long period of time, many times those walls are removed, and they begin to segment, when they detect that a whale comes in and they react by removing it and putting it in several sale prices, it is very common to see them, that's what it is the market, everyone has their strategy.
In Forex you see this seldomly.

Must be the combination of huge volumes and regulation.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: starblocks on March 25, 2019, 12:11:52 AM
Price manipulation isn't an entirely new thing and since cryptocurrency is still largely unregulated its running rampant across the entire market so unless you're equipped with your own professional tool set for day trading and ample capital you're basically unable to compete, but that doesn't mean there's a lack of opportunities if your patient in accumulating early enough and then taking profits once an asset becomes sufficiently over bought because you'll likely come off winning


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: justdimin on March 26, 2019, 08:37:04 AM
It is one hell of a reason why we need to also learn to really play along with theses whales, because they are very smart and already been an experts in this manipulation of a thing, best option really for now is to pause selling on those coin we earn or bought by holding onto them for so long, like you said, by doing so, the sell wall manipulation will become useless to them.

I leaned that another way one can use to play along with this whales is also to learn how to make use of chart analysis, I was told one will be able to know when they will pump or dump a particular coin through this, I havenít tried t though, still thoroughly learning more on chart analysis but for now, I am seriously holding my coins.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: cytpoway121 on March 26, 2019, 09:37:45 AM
STELLAR price is glued / fixed at $0.1097 right now, it looks ridiculous

https://www.binance.com/nl/trade/pro/XLM_ETH

Just as you have rightly said, no matter how ridiculous the price is
It is a free market, people get to decide when they sell or buy their tokens

We can only be smart with our own portfolios


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Red-Apple on March 26, 2019, 09:45:22 AM
A few days after a coin shows exceptional growth,

here is your answer in your own comment :D

what you are calling "exceptional growth" has been a fake pump and it is the characteristics of the pumps to be followed by a dump and what you call "sell walls" are simply traders who know the pump is already over and are trying to cash out so some of them start placing sell orders instead of selling at market value because they are greedy.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Collinberg on March 26, 2019, 10:23:27 AM
There has been several.conspiracy theories floating about in recent times especially ones that concerns unknown whales manipulating the market but to be honest, I have noticed this same thing you just pointed out and it I am beginning to think that the conspiracy theories are actually true facts.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Danda23 on March 26, 2019, 10:25:02 AM
This is very insightful. Trading is not just buy the lows and sell the highs, there is more to it, that is why before anyone starts trading, you should have learnt enough about trading and what it entails,else you get yourself burnt up or trapped. Know when to hold your coin and not to sell at a dumping price. It is not worth it.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: christian07 on March 26, 2019, 11:43:22 AM
Market here in crypto is base worldwide so that's a lot of users like many different trading site,gambling site,ICO and more that really use this like a lot of different investment then add also the whales and of course FUD also can drops the price of this still better to think the positive like risk if you know what to do like grab the chance to earn if you can another thing you can't control everything here,Moreover all are possible here in crypto so some of that are bad like scam ICO and more


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: futile-resistance on March 27, 2019, 05:26:59 PM
Price manipulation isn't an entirely new thing and since cryptocurrency is still largely unregulated its running rampant across the entire market so unless you're equipped with your own professional tool set for day trading and ample capital you're basically unable to compete, but that doesn't mean there's a lack of opportunities if your patient in accumulating early enough and then taking profits once an asset becomes sufficiently over bought because you'll likely come off winning
You are right, with these high manipulation in price, one need to be well equipped with some trading tools provided we are trading, otherwise,best is to be an HOLDELER of the coin till any form of price manipulation becomes impossible again.

Because, I still believe there will be a time in the future that all these whales activities will become less when a particular coin become far higher in price and has already become stable and less volatile, then we can think of conveniently selling our coin off them without it having any major effect negatively on the market,  because the market volatility is what the whales are taking advantage of now.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Correlll on March 27, 2019, 05:29:30 PM
For sure big whales are killing the market or maybe team members themselves. I have mentioned huge sell walls on pretty new tokens and I hardly believe that any investor could have afford 100 ETH of noname token.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: hummer113 on March 27, 2019, 05:31:25 PM
Speculators do their best to make money, they have various tools to achieve their goals.


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: Julunguul on March 27, 2019, 05:43:41 PM
In many cases today, what is done by whale more often damages the price of the coin itself, they try to suppress the growth of the coin, at this time other traders will also think that the coin / token will be difficult to rise then they sell it and also of course some whale must also sell compared to raising prices again


Title: Re: Nasty Sell Walls are killing the free cryptomarket
Post by: neonshium on March 31, 2019, 08:28:31 PM
Yes, it is so true that nasty sell orders have been a contribution in bringing down the market to some extent but I don't think there is possibly any way to control the way users place sell orders in the market because as you said, this is a free market and anyone can actually do what they want to do in a free market since it is not being controlled by any government body or individual.

I believe strongly that when we have a lot of volume in the market cap of the coin, this problem would be solved.