Bitcoin Forum

At least for the summer.

I run a small farm of ASIC A9 Zmasters and they were heating my shop and giving me a decent profit over the winter but even at $0.06 a KW it will cost me too much to run them through the hot weather. So I'm drinking Bushmill's, smoking a Cuban cigar, and crying a little.

Thank you

First, A9 is not a rig.

Second, and more important, if you are turning A9s off with 0.06c power then you need to stop smoking whatever you are smoking...

RE:
A9 is ASIC, not RIG.
RIG mean multi-GPU mining, not ASIC.
Asic standart : New Shipping, Never ROI!

with this difficulty, ROI will be 1 year

Posted by: yrk1957

All GPUs are ASICs FYI

Sometimes this forum is hard to take.

Instead of saying something worthwhile you argue about whether the A9's are "rigs" or not.

Actually I call them "critters". Ergo, critter 1, 2, etc....

Go ahead and argue about the semantics of that.

They argue because every time someone shuts down those unprofitable machines be ASIC or GPUs, one of those who are trully believers, that a paying from their pockets the electricity bill seeing no profit at all thinking that in the future they will recover their money, this conversation actually makes them think how dumb they are for keeping their machines on.

So no worry. You've done the best you can do. You should have done it way before IMO. I switched mines off at least 6 months ago. Never have regreted doing it.  

It used to be that if you dropped a decent amount (like a few k $) you could buy gear that would pay you back at least double that in a year or so (really it was even better than that in the early days).  Now though you can't even break even it seems.  People are willing to dive in with new gear with the shittiest margins, or maybe they don't even calculate it any more.  ASIC's go for much more than they are really worth now in my opinion so that I don't even want to buy the brand new ones even though I used to buy anything from a reputable company as soon as it was available.  I have a pile of old ASIC's and GPU's that really aren't worth anything now and those are just the ones I didn't resale when I upgraded.  I don't know who is making money on mining anymore.  I have a few things still running but I haven't bought anything new in like 18 months and the few things I still have going are going to be shut down before too much longer.  I have been mining continuously for just over 6 years but the day when I am doing no mining at all is fast approaching.

I said like a thousand times in this forum, that mining was dead. a huge amount of trolls just came to say that mining with GPUs would never die. Well, we have to be honest here. They thought gpu mining would always survive the ASIC tsunami. What it will not survive, is the shittiest market ever created by the man in the hole history.

Today, you have to be really, like really really dumb and blind to not see the reality of a market that is collapsing day after day with no options but to believe highly paid guys that tell you what they want you to believe, because they need stupid people to continue burning money in this hell.

Just stop mining mate, there is no point. Probably you are losing money right now. It makes no sense.

Funny how other people always tell me that I am not making money.  I'm a pretty good size PRIVATE miner and pull about a 1MW power personally in my building.  It's my full time job, if you are not a tard you recover all your expenses in tax credits, and various other LEGAL means as well as about a 15-25% profit.  I do ok in the bear ass market, not great but pretty damn ok.  I report every penny and pay my taxes.  It's all about not being greedy, not extending yourself beyond your means and costs of power.  I buy used equipment and no joke over 2018 i doubled my equipment because the cost was very low to do so.  I'm 75/80% GPU of that 1/2 AMD/NVIDIA and 20/25 ASICs.  ALL are paid for and all make me $ every month.  My building, my upgrades to power the whole smash was paid for by crypto profits.  On top of that guess what, asset depreciation on taxes = continual write off.  Before you all speak do your homework.  Just because you can't make $ don't mean others can't.  


Also check out this quote because damn I think I found a new hero. He is on vosks discord.  Damn I like his positivity.

CryptoToreToday at 7:11 AM
Thanks
Doing fine! Chemo aint nothing compared to a bear market :P

Any tax tips @dagarair for those who have not yet had to declare or will do soon due to changes to the system?

Look i'm not a tax dude and they very state to state but I have a bad ass CPA.  That being said easy stuff is you can instant depreciate your rig/asic this year, expense electric bill etc.  REPORT your income and if its a loss and you sold it then it's a negative cap gains hit that go right in your taxes as a loss.  Stuff like that.

Nonsense.

So, just because you were running your farm with no profit, this autmatically mean that all the others are dumb in keeping their machines on and you are the smart one that was not able to get profit and so it turned his farm off??
I can safely tell you that I know about several cases that keep having profit on the bear season (using GPU, no example with ASIC)... it envolves mainly a good mining strategy, good investment plan (including energy), and sometimes renwable energy sources...
Besides, and how about all the miners that are still supporting the main crypto networks (networks are still growing)?? all the world is loosing money because they just like it........

During this depressing market situation its better to buy the coins that you want to mine, it proves to be more cheaper and viable options than mining them.

Atleast I have some fun on reading up some comments and arguing about A9 is asic or Rig.  ;D

You do have the full control on your decisions, if you do see that you aren't making profits then why proceed? Just continue to smoke Cuban cigar and cry a little.

Are you not taking advantage of the equipment deductions on your taxes?. If you want to expand into a farm treat it like a business and do your accounting correct. Otherwise you will always be a small timer

I still mine and my electric bills are high.  I pretty much break even but I've thought a few times about shutting down.  Have them setup and mostly dread the work and hastle of working with it.  Used to be a little fun and actually... I do find some of it enjoyable.  idk... hard to say if it's worth it in times like this.  But there's just so much going on to keep it interesting so... can't stop.

After market crash mining become something that makes losses instead of gains for btc, eth and etc. So i can understand your decision.

Same here ,my rigs are gathering dusts for now and I regret setting them up in the first place but who knows? The profitable days may return in the future

The market is grim, the market is sluggish, and the mining industry needs to consider costs when the market is bullish. Provide opportunities for those who are ready. prepare in advance.

it's pretty funny how a lot of you all cry even when making 5-8% profit.  Let me let you in on a little secret, IT'S STILL PROFIT.  Those of you that are not making profit, I get your grief.  Anything in the green is STILL PROFIT, be it 5 cents or 100$.

ETH @ 230 hash and 1050 watts (8 x 470 rigs) @
power at 10 cents is 11% profit
power at 9 cents is 23% profit
power at 8 cents is 39% profit
power at 7 cents is 59% profit

Just like dagarair said. Your best option is a Certified Public Accountant (CPA). But ... Not all CPA familiar with how to handle mining related incomes, coins, exchanged coins to cash, coins what you still have in your wallet :) So what you really need is a bad ass CPA ;)

Exactly :)
But the  main problem is, for lot of ppl, the main reason they got into mining is " get rich fast, make 100's of dollars with nothing "
and most of them jumped into mining when a single rx480/580 GPU was between 600-800$ or more :)
All this folks coming back now and crying :-)
There is my topic, with a example, what i created 6 months ago about ETH mining profitable (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5044586), just updated today, because i saw this post :)

A lot of the big farms are willing to mine at near zero profit just to make everyone else shut down.   Then once difficulty drops they rake in the real profits.  This is a common tactic in business, it isn't always about making maximum profit but killing off your competition first.

Your missing out on some awesome tax harvesting for the 2018 tax season.  Most miners reported losses on mining due to the rapid drop in value and your able to use those losses to offset any income gains they made.  Plus miners are able to deduct your equipment and electricity expenses and allow you to buy more equipment and expand.

Plus you have piece of mind that you are compliant with your mining taxes.  Most people worry about the tax man when they get an irs audit in the mail.  I wouldn't wait for that to happen b/c then it would be too late.

And the vast majority of Americans and Europeans are paying US>10c/kWh.  Even up here in the Great White North, you'll only find rates substantially below that in Manitoba and Quebec (and maybe still in some parts of Labrador).  In the big American cities, electricity is over US 20c/kWh.

And when I checked your numbers, it looks like you're only factoring the electricity costs, and nothing for depreciation.

I suspect you're in somewhere like Washington state, which has some of the lowest electricity costs in North America.  So if you're in Grant County, sure mining ETH is clearly profitable, but for the other 99.9% of the population, it ain't so easy to make money mining.

http://www.hydroquebec.com/data/documents-donnees/pdf/comparison-electricity-prices.pdf

ya im up in Canada too, and had to refactor my whole farm the last few months
im in Sask, cheapest power i can get is like 0.15 CDN :/
i mined out of pocket on about 15% of my bill for a few months, just for the sake of collecting some coins
only works out if one can hodl for the pumps tho (i.e rvn)

tbh most people should send their stuff to hosting, theres alot of GPU hosters now a days that are trustworthy

I think that now you need to continue mining. If you can accumulate a lot of cryptocurrency now, then in the future you can make a profit. I think that in the future it can bring a good profit.

I think mining today is not a good idea and if your in a country that has a expensive electricity its better to forget about mining ;)

It`s the right way calculation. All my equipment costs had been calculated until revenues exceeded costs. Now there is now depreciation, it was calculated before.
Even if GPU-ASIC - break down - it doesn`t make a problem. it worked hard and paid off itself.

My rigs are slightly profitable also at the moment but they are still powered off. Basically making a nickel a day per GPU is just not worth the headache of keeping an eye on these rigs and having to do proper maintainance from time to time.

The main reason however is that I don't want the headache of running my GPUs and having a fan fail and then having to go thru the RMA process or buying some second hand replacement fans and having the GPU lose value.

I only have a few GPUs , if I had hundreds then I would obviously keep them running but at the moment just leaving them powered off.

I have my rigs turned on all the time but I also turned on the rigs I manage for some friends at my worm with their request.

With this price of bitcoin they are making about 250 dollars profit monthly with 6 rigs that each of them has.

I say now is the time to turn on the rigs.

It would only be the right way if the cards were worth nothing.   However I suspect they are worth something, and the more you use them and the longer you wait, they are worth less and less.

If you are planning to sell GPUs sometime - it may be so. But your equipment had a fixed price. At one moment, you get profit exceeding all your spending. In this moment, equipment costs nothing for you. Depreciation may be useful just for taxes. In this way you may count it. But also depreciation with such type of equipment is about 3-5 years as usial and really small percent in the calculation.

Go outside and enjoy the summer lol. I think most miners are going to turn their rigs off because of the heat and it's not that profitable nowadays. How about try mining using GPU and maybe you'll have some luck in there. Enjoy your cigar and cry a little more.

Given the bearish market, it will be very hard for small scale miners to compete and break even, even with a low cost electricity.
Better leave the mining for now to industrial miners, small scale miners may be able to join again once the market shifts to bull territory.

I see second hand adds about gpu's, sellers state that they truned their rigs down. I don't understand why because I have a rig with 4 1070ti and 1 1070's getting me 1 USD a day. I don't turn it down because 1 USD a day is better than 0 USD a day. My guess about the people turned their rigs down;

* They have really crappy psu's, their rig is in an office so their electricity costs are high
* They are rich and they don't care about 0.50 -1 USD a day

I do understand if people want to sell their gear, it's very reasonable. But I don't understand turning the existing rig down.

I also stopped the extraction of coins because in my case it almost brings no income and now I think to sell my graphics cards while they can still work.

Maybe you are right that now mining is not much profitable because of bearish market. But some experts miner said still it’s profitable.

Nowadays mining have proven not be profitable anymore owing to the unfavorable market. You pay more for energy while the payout tends to be little. Maybe there will be a turnaround but for now, not profitable.

Correct, it's not favorable for miners to mine as this point since the rewards is not profitable, you'll wasting you time and your rigs conditions only to expect nothing in returned, if you are aiming for long term holding chances if doing this for the sake of habitually activities but if it's not better to close it for a while.

At 0.06$ /KWhr and you will still mine at a loss? Seem the good days are gone with the bears for ASIC dedicated mining. My problem with ASIC mining is that you have to keep up with the Pace, as soon as a new batch of miners are released,boom..the difficulty spikes.If you miss the first deliveries (which are way too expensive anyway),you have missed out on it.

A way around it would have been to mine and accumulate your coins,holding till the markets are much more bullish- mining at a loss, only sustainable if you have small farm and anticipate the market to return bullish soon enough. For large farm, the only stay afloat with the highest level of optimization, only the most efficient miners are turned-on.The dynamics are very sensitive and are best left to the most sophisticated hands. Andrea Antonopolous made a case for this in his lecture on mining btc.

I`ve got x4 from my electicity bill this month with $0.06 for KWt. The worst profit ever was about x2.5 from electricity. Last part of the mining equipment was bought about an a year before. I dont know what you are doing to see that "mining not profitable".

He probably tried as long as he could to mine at a 'doable' loss.  It is always a struggle in bearish high diff miner times.

I already commented in a couple of the other threads touting the new Z11's which are a total waste of money IMO. They suck a lot of power, generate a lot of heat, and drive up difficulty in a declining market cap with un upcoming fork ahead.

Whats not to love love about Zcash?

Some are very strong on their argument that mining is still profitable, others argue on the opposite, but mining largely depend on your location or should say country of residence, either you have free electricity or you generate power alternatively, you could mining at loss,
This is problem faced by a mining project (name withheld) who was suppose to lunch but couldn't because of difficulties in mining and the low market condition.

at this time indeed to do mining must really pay attention to exchange price and consider electricity cost and repair of existing equipment when condition of cryptocurrency price which is already very cheap and electricity and maintenance cost goes up hence it is no longer profitable and makes many miners use the rig goes out of business.

Right, actually mining is depends on what source and condition in that user itself. So debating about pros and contras actually is non sense because they only argue something that happen in themself.

If you are a mine and sell type of miners then you are surely mining at loss and wasting your time mining for nothing.

Its best to mine and hold and wait for the right time to sell, As for the electricity it should be covered from the pocket of the miners from the time being. This is the best and a little expensive to do during bear market

only in the hope of global market changes everyone should mine. It is better to work for the future, not for the current time - if you immediately sell what ur mined, you will not be able to catch more +% with the subsequent increase in value

as a miner you must have prepared enough equipment to deal with what will happen like summer weather, market conditions are indeed bad but using mining properly will not close the door sufficient profit so all must choose and be consistent

And they are still mining even they are all in the loss because they are waiting for the price to go up again and it just like when you are betting on something that can't be determined. But if you don't sell some and then how do you cover all of your costs and bill? Remember electricity is always increase.

Do not make your decision too quickly. Experts say that this time is the best time to start with crypto mining because mining HWs are very cheap now.

I don't have a rig, but I have a family that has a rig and uses some industrial electricity (ice factory) for mining, but according to him now the rig is not profitable at all and only enough to get $ 100 per month even though the price hasn't fallen, he can get $ 500 up and now he stops and sells the rig

Get cheap electricity from the ice factory's corporate rate and then run the rigs inside the ice storage room!
Cheap power, free cooling, win-win! ;D

when the surrounding conditions or your environment are very hot and the cost of electricity is very expensive it will make many miners turn off the engine because they already know that it will only make a loss, they are waiting for the right moment to activate the miner again.

I guess you should have continue instead of turning it off and smoking cigar to cry a little. You said you are making little decent money, and your electricity seems to be cheap if I get your electricity submission conversion. Maybe except for the heat generated which can be moved to a better location with a coolant.

if in his country can get cheap electricity and have very cold weather temperatures or at least not too hot then he can relax a little and enjoy the benefits of mining results.

Want to sell them?

One of the most painful is the electric bills. And also the internet. You must have big capital inorder to sustain that kind of living. In summer was the most hard time for a miner we all know that computers has high temperature when it is mining. It is a great solution to just pause your mining at summer and reoperate it when winter comes. I think it really depends on you. If you got money try to invest in cooling systems specialized for that type of job. Im sure you will have your ROI soon. Good luck buddy. Cheers!

Miners are dumping them like crazy on ebay for a thousand bucks. Go for it!

That's right, when the hot season comes, it makes sense to suspend rigs until better times. Natural cooling from nature in the winter for free and it helps the miners to get a good profit with their Asics. In a winning position in this case, residents of the northern regions.

Having an asic farm is an achievement in itself. I'd just reduce the number of machines running and run it next to the window. You can even pipe the heat our using a fan and ducting pipe

Soon the summer and the problems of heat dissipation for miners will become very relevant. My friends who are engaged in mining farm with horror await the onset of the summer heat. This is just a misfortune for miners.

Ah well, that's what I call adjustment to situational demands. You have to restructure your plans when conditions become unfavorable. So i second your options. Mining is a "job" in a way and hence you should slow down when you're not making profits. Even large mining farms do that lol. You're not alone but do well to come back after the summer. Crypto needs you :)

i am tired of the rapid upgrade of professional mining machines. i have always been a strong supporter of GPU mining machines. it is ideal for home mining. i like the flexibility of it.

Not always. If you have efficient miners, there's no benefit to shutting down the miners for the summer. Basically you have an asset (GPU's) that depreciate over time. If you can mine profitably, even at a margin, then there's no question if one should let the GPU's sit on the shelf doing nothing or have them do work for you. I took my time to sell all my older gen GPU's for the summer, since spending tends to trend up toward the summer season as the summer break starts. I could be a player and sell them when the next GPU shortages start, but it's hard to predict if it will ever happen.

During winter I just use the rigs to warm up the house. No need to run an expensive heater when I got one that also makes me money. =)

Arrrr bushmill's my favourite  whisky.  Good choice

good solution. I've been shutting down my equipment for a long time. There is almost no income, and I do not need to heat the house because it's so good for me and so is central heating. I decided to just trade for myself.
now I think a few people are already dropping popular coins because they are already very difficult to dig and buy new equipment I think it is not profitable

Sure, trading can be ok, but be aware that if you trade at small exchanges there is a risk they can be hacked or exitscamed, like what happened to Cryptopia. Users are stuck there for months on end and those with ETH got wiped out completely.

Please note that Cryptopia was not the most unknown or weak exchange. It was a mid-level solid exchange. Therefore, the most reliable trade on decentralized exchanges.

Happy to hear it. The more people shut down their rigs, the less difficulty would be, the more profit i`d get.

If someone compares profit with some business in real life? If you are getting even 3 year ROI - it`s nice profit. Bank give you about 5-10% in a year. Stop cry, sell  your equipment and go to bank.

Now mining on graphics cards to me does not bring virtually anything.I'm talking about home mining which consists of several graphics cards.Competition from ASIC-devices is growing stronger,so I will just keep an eye on the situation on the market and if it starts to improve-I think mining will again begin to generate income.

Everyone thought they could make easy money at home with no work so the the network got flooded with miners causing the profits to shrink to nearly nothing.  If something is easy to do and gives profit it will get crowded real quickly.

Well same thing happen to me I'm mining using application from folding@home my computer really heats up and my computer keeps lagging, you cannot use your computer and at the same time mining with GPU it will generate a lot of heat and could make your computer breakdown.

It`s the same as to say working at home does not give me profit. Competition with the plants is growing stronger. Etc.
Mining is a work! If you want to get money for doing nothing - panhandle is your choice.

Mining isn't really considered getting money for doing nothing. You need to invest in the hardware and maintain it, doing nothing would not involve any investment what-so-ever time and money wise.

The issue with mining is however that with the crypto boom in 2017, many people discovered mining and the competition became fierce. Many gamers actually started to mine since they already owned the rigs.

So like with most businesses that are too profitable, competition hits them fast and the profits start to dwindle, its like this in most industries. My advice is to just sit and wait and ProgPOW might be launched and we might hit new ATH with a few alt coins and the days of $1/day/gpu might be back again.

I think it is very dangerous because when your computer is always hot it will make your computer's life short and the benefits you get from mining are not too much so my advice is mining better using very cool air conditioners like server space and the cost is not as cheap you imagine.

I partially agree with you. We invest money. But when you invest - you are working to understand what are you doing and why. The same way must be here. You have money, you make your research, you buy equipment.
But your work doesnt stops at this moment. You are studying all over the time. And i dont see such threads from such men. But men that think like "i spent my money. ok, the job is done, now i`m siting and getting profit" - they create thread by thread like this "way of loser".

Too much HYPE in mining last 2017 and even those people that don't have clue what cryptocurrency is, Started mining and the only thing matters to them was $$$.

Most of these newbie first time miners are nicehash users and when nicehash was hack all those newbies was saving their hard earned mining profits in nicehash thinking it was secure enough to store their BTC.

It's okay to turned your rigs off, for now. Hodl the coin that you have mined and buckle up for the next bull run. Maybe in next bull run you can turned your rigs on again and make profit like before, but in the mean time just take a set back first.

Noooo!! Keep the dream alive keep mining! Do it as a hobby to support the network and stay involved!

I'm pretty much at breakeven point, but am still mining a few different projects to accumulate.

That's a very bad comparison.  If you break even in 3 years Roi yes that's somewhat okay for a business AND you never have to buy equipment for the next 10-15 years.  HOWEVER mining your required to buy new equipment every 3 years just to break even in 3 years. .  All that time and energy and your making very little profit in this current era and phase of mining.


Yes the smart ones will sell of their gears and buy coins or move on with their life.  The hardcore miners are the stubborn ones will be racing to the bottom chasing scraps with the rest of the bottom feeding miners.  Sorry bud there is no free lunch. The mining market has changed and its way over saturated.

You need to upgrade equipment every few years or so however your old equipment you can sell and use some of that money to buy new equipment.

Computer hardware suprisingly holds their value very well. Even an 8 year old Intel processor still can fetch a pretty penny on eBay and same with the old AMD Radeon 7970/280X GPUs, you can still get close to $50 for those and they are about 7 years old or so.

Most people who bought GPUs probably didn't expect the ROI to be 3 years, they probably bought when it was 90 days ROI and then the markets crashed and they might of overpaid for some of their GPUs like people paying over $1100 for the GTX 1080Ti last year.

Sorry bud, but looks like you have seen only old-school plants if they dont buy equipment for 10-15 years. In my company, for example, we change about 70% of all equipment and repaired about 40% of all our buildings at last 5 years.

I dont know what you decided about "free lunch" and what problems with food do you have but mining gives me about 50-70% of my total income even nowadays. It`s not so much as in 2017-18 but enough not to cry as thread starter.

Sure you might be able to catch some resale value of a 3 year video card but guess what. You pay taxes on that income you got from selling that video card and doing all that leg work. I personally would rather run them down to the ground.

From a small business line of work mining is not that great. Pretty pathetic actually. I've made lots more with less invested as a teenager fabricating car parts.

I guess mining is for those comfortable with small returns and a lot of them have too much hopeium for better days instead of facing things objectively like you would if you ran a business

Now that makes no sense.
Assuming you bought the video cards for a company account, you would certainly not pay income tax from selling these cards several years later at a lower value.
Video cards in that role are assets that depreciate. Selling them does not generate income, nor profit.
The income is the value of the coins they mine for you.
The profit is what's left when you deduct costs.

indeed, now the profits you get from mining using a graphics card like that cannot generate very much profit anymore because of the influence of falling coin prices on the exchange, so there are now many who have not activated the rig as long as the price falls.

What bank gives 5-10% year? As far as i know most banks only offers 0.25 upto 1% per year interest on our regular deposit account. Maybe your talking about time deposit account., And you cannot compare banking investment and mining, they are 2 different thing from 2 different industry.

In reality Mining is really more profitable than leaving your money sleeping in the bank,.

It may not make any sense to you b/c you don't know your tax laws that well.  But anyone that runs a small business, small line of work, self employed  would know this.

It actually makes total sense.
When you took the equipment deduction on your taxes for buying video card what stops someone from selling it the following year and pocketing that money and gaming the system. The IRS recaptures some of that free equipment deduction you got on your taxes.

"Tax rules let the IRS recapture some of the depreciation deductions you have taken since you owned the asset. The recapture rules differ for real estate and equipment."

"If you sell depreciable equipment at a gain, you must recapture either the depreciation and expensing deductions claimed on the asset, or the total gain, whichever is less. This recapture amount is then taxed as ordinary income, not as Section 1231 gain. "

Resource Link below for proof.
https://turbotax.intuit.com/tax-tips/small-business-taxes/managing-assets/L18WqppFX

In my country nowadays 1 year deposit gives about 6-8%, depends on different banks and conditions. With investments you can get some more, i cant say really how much, but i dont think it will be more then 10%

You do good as in Summer specially in hot areas it is very difficult to mine as miner (Rigs)need extra cooling/ventilation and if you arrange cooling system then is will cost too much. Living in cold areas are lucky as they never need self cooling system all is done naturally.

It is clear that the summer makes its own adjustments to the cryptocurrency mining process. Mining costs are increasing due to the increase in cooling costs. Plus, equipment wear increases. Many nuances.

Note that it says (from your quote) "If you sell depreciable equipment at a gain". No gain, no tax. Simples. Even if you do not pay tax/vat on the purchase of the cards, I doubt you'll be able to sell the GPUs with a higher value three years later (from your original post).

So no, what you wrote still made no sense. ;)

Yes, ZEC price dumped and downtren market. You got nothing if you still mining with your asic.
My set-up rig for 10xRX570 only got about $3 per day with $2.5 electricity fees. Bad day in mining history

The usual thing in the mining market. Only the strongest and most persistent will be able to hold their positions.
Why do you have such expensive electricity?

Better question is, why are you still crying with a profit?  Try and get 50 cents in a bank a day intrest on 2.50.

Tell this to someone who is not educated in cryptocurrency or in computer technolgoy, he will laugh.
But yes, it is real, thats why some mining companies are planning to migrate to Alps for example.  :)

FALSE!! That only applies if you never took a equipment deduction. Like you bought a painting on eBay for $100 and sold for $100. No tax.

If you took the equipment deduction on turbo tax and sold it the following year it will be recaptured as income. This is a big red audit flag bc anyone can game the system and keep doing this and IRS won't let you get away with all that tax benefits.

"Recapture involves taking the prior depreciation deductions back into income, and it occurs at the sale of a property. You're right in saying that, back then, you had to recapture the excess of the accelerated depreciation over straight-line as ordinary income"

You need to get a CPA so you don't get yourself in trouble. I see a lot of bitcointalkers are clueless on taxes and spread false information. Or a lot of them are just tax cheats that will risk getting audited. IRS is not someone you want to mess with. One bad incident can ruin your life

I see what you mean, it's a US thing, i.e. you get a discount on "equipment" that needs to be taxed if said equipment is subsequently sold above its discount+depreciation value kind of thing. Works differently here in the UK afaik.

How much is the "equipment deduction" out of curiosity? And how long would you have to pay tax (i.e. rather a giving back of the discount) on the re-sale of that equipment?

It's not caused by the trend that created by the market but ZEC develop was dumping it to get more money from the market and I guess you must see that tweet about that created by whale panda.
It looks like he was living in 3rd countries. Is that right? Some countries have expensive electricity cost. https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/electricity-rates-around-the-world.html

I've come up with a brilliant, zero-risk mining scheme.

I was tempted to invest in a vii rig, but held fire to see what hash per watt looked like.

By doing so, I've already made £80 per card (launch price vs price today), and that's in about 8 weeks, so a whopping £10 per week pure profit - best of all, I've not had to build and manage a rig either! Would recommend!

ROFL "Zero-Risk" That don't exist buddy.  Glad you are doing well.

Zero Risk method is probably only when you mine somewhere where you get free electricity.
But there is still the high initial investment to buy efficient mining rigs.

Drastic situation leads to drastic measures. It is no longer news that most miners are dumping their mining equipment and settling for either trading or whatsoever they deem fit.
The high cost of energy coupled with less mining profits isn't encouraging at all.

Today is the right time to clean your rigs and make a test run to make sure its still working. BTC is gaining a foot hold right now and Nicehash Mining Become profitable once again.

Its time to dust off my 1050ti GPU's. Hoping all of them are still working. I stopped using them since February 2018.

I can dust off my 570's as much as I want (wouldn't be a big job, they're Asus with dust repellent fans... Excellent stuff), I'm not plugging them back in to draw 2000W and net me a buck a day.

They're being sold. Some are being replaced by 2060's. I'll consider further replacements later.

Now there are a lot of promising coins for mining. Therefore, I think that stopping the rigs is a bad idea. I think you need to look for good coins and continue mining.

Still Lurking and looking for a Great Timing, Not quiet sure if my 480's can still push and make some cents, checking on Price right now and seems its promising.

Difficulty is also starting to rise from Last months Low

https://etherscan.io/chart/difficulty

Honestly I'm undecided to Sell my 480's or still fire them up

Its so depressing.

There are so many people just waiting to turn on their machines at the smallest upwards movement in price.  This market has been flooded by people and I don't think it will ever be like the glory days.

This is a great time to sell those 1060 3GB cards that can't mine eth as the 6GB cards are now in tighter supply so the 3GB rose up in price a bit.  Of course the smart thing to do would have been to stop mining in Dec 2017, sell all the cards, buy ETH or your fav alt or BTC when it hit rock bottom and sell on the run up. Sure it's not as fun as mining but I think we're well past the point where the networks need to be supported through decentralization.

If you have any holdings it would make sense to take a little profit taking. Those who held entirely in 2017 missed out on a lot of opportunity. BTC and alts will most certainly crash and run up again before the next halving.

I can agree with you. There are lots of people that use this cards with better profit then ETH and they doesnt matter about the DAG file. I`d like to up my GPUs to 20xx series but i dont want to sell my 1063 for nothing. Right now it seems that i can get nice price for them.

Yep. Plenty of miners on the sidelines chasing scraps and ready to turn their machines back on if prices bounce up a little.  I didn't cry about it though. I swung back harder. Shifted my operation from home mining to a colo mining with 3x cheaper rate than residential from 24 cents down to 8 cents.  I installed some solar panels myself on my home so I can still mine a rig at home. Heck my solar panels have a faster ROI than my 20 series 2080 rtx cards and have much longer use 30 years.

People wasting all this money on gpus they should be investing in solar and learn how to install it themselves. But not everyone has the chops or skills for that and only a few will win and those that went solar will enjoy mining into the future and  further lower their system ROI time. Any fomo idiot can buy gpus and try to mine hence we reached full market saturation.  But not everyone has access to cheap power or knows how to install solar or wants to send their rigs to a mining colo to stay competitive. This what separates the boys from the men.

How much did you spend to mount you solar system?
I live in Brazil, we have a expensive electricity costs, I've been studying about solar system, but the cost is expesive to, maybe I can install and reduce the costs

Just bypass the meter

There is no free lunch.  That's not worth the risk to reward. Especially if your pulling serious power it won't go unnoticed.

www.wholesalesolar.com

www.geminisolardesign.com   (They build you the proper layout planning with electrical diagrams after sending them a layout sketch for $275)(totally worth doing this, saves you time and having to pay extra to your city if they fail your first drafts plans) (also the electrical diagrams is very helpful to make sure your using big enough wires)

 . They are in the united states in california.  But you might find a wholesale solar company in your country.  I would avoid those turn key solar solutions as they charge a lot.  I had to ask myself.  Do i want to build two gpu rigs and break even with electric after 3-4 years.  Or do i want a solar system and break even in less than 4 years and have and can use my system for 30 years and save lots of money over the long term.

You can get some grid tie systems for pretty cheap. I got a 6.7kw system 20 panels of 335watts each for like 9k or 6k after tax credits. This will generate 900 kwatts a month. Enough to power my home and 1 gpu rig with 6x cards.  Plus in united states you get a 30 percent tax credit on your system cost and install cost. But i recommend self install as you will learn a lot and its not that hard and you save money.

Getting power from the sun is a lot of fun.  A LOT more fun than mining especially in the current state.  Plus my location is not perfect for solar but good enough. Totally worth it IF you install yourself and get a big enough system

Got a couple of 570 park it up and don't know if I'll be able to generate something as the electricity price from where am I is really high,
will try to find new coins that have potentials and try some luck when fully decided to turned back my rig on again.

Thank you for all this info man, I'll do a better research about solar system and do the math
I live in a city known in Brazil as one of the hotest cities in country  ;D
We have plenty solar rays here, and it's very hot

I updated my msg for more information that is helpful.

www.wholesalesolar.com

www.geminisolardesign.com   
(They build you the proper layout planning with electrical diagrams after sending them a layout sketch for $275)(totally worth doing this, saves you time and having to pay extra to your city if they fail your first drafts plans) (also the electrical diagrams is very helpful to make sure your using big enough wires)

When difficulty isnt really that high lots of miners do really still managed to get some profits but the margin keeps tighten as it rises
and power cost is one of the factor.Im actually on the same foot as yours,im still parking up my rig and waiting for the right time
if i do see some opportunity to mine at profit but for now im not stressing too much myself on seeking those chances.

I cant imagine what electricy cost you have, can you say it? For me mining is profitable until $0.25 per KWh and i dont see such costs anythere. Of course its that time then your equipment is paid off.

So.. for you profitable is 0.20/kWh. Interesting meaning of word "profitable" :)

You can find it in vocabulary. More than zero is profit. All my equipment paid off long ago and even $0.01 per KWh is profit. And i havent said, that my electricity costs $0.25.

Don't wait when others are also parking their rigs and waiting for a good price to start mining again. We already see a good sign that this price rally with continue. Starting your rigs right now even on a small profit margin is the best thing to do. Don't wait for the difficulty to raised to the roof before you start mining :D

More than zero is not profit, if you deduct your electricity cost and your investment in rig that slightly more than zero will become minus hence you loss your investment. So yes it's better to turned your rigs off compare with losing your money.

One should still focus on reducing their operation cost, lowering their electric and making some changes, and spend more money on more efficient cards or specific asics. From a line of work & accounting perspective, The idea of just mine now to break near even with electric and hope prices go up higher is worst than just buying coins with cash.

The miners that are waiting on the sidelines will just get roasted by the pro miners that can keep cost down. It's a different ball game now. No more noobphoria making $5+ a day with a single gpu. People are wiser now and competition is a lot more fierce

Since Asic's profitability decreasing rapidly, sell them instead of waiting next winter(while they still have positive profitability) And buy some stable pos coins.

How about your ROI  using asic? im pretty sure that will take you too long almost a year or so to get back you invest and start really earn through mining?You better sell that ASIC and buy a real MINING RIGS composed of a cpu and a gpu

Newbies are crying and selling rigs. They decided that they are top miners/traders when it was a problem to become a loser. Someone bought rigs and did nothing more, another - read more and more and more trying to increase profit and decrease expenses. Guess who of them are crying now?

you just translated perfeclty the difference of playing the short game and the long game.

usually those who play the long game win!

No. I describied difference between men that come to get money and relate to mining such as to a work and men that decide to get easy money for nothing. The results are on the board.

Well, who? If one trader is lucky and imagines himself a trading genius, then it will end badly. The market is manipulated and no matter how much you read, if you do not have access to insider information you will eventually lose everything. As for the miners, everything is very simple. There are miners who have never bought equipment and never paid for electricity. For them, mining is always profitable. To do this, you just need to use the computing power and electricity where such a miner works. Although it is said that it is like theft.

Wow. And thats why we regularly see threads like this here. Because its too simple.
Mining with 1 home GPU? Mining at work? First case - its not mining, second - its until this "clever" boy would be catched.

You should not think that all these people will be caught. One in a thousand might get caught. And the rest will continue their activities.

Mining at this point is profitable again if you have recovered the investment you have made to buy your mining equipment.Mining Ethereum with a six graphic cards rig with a 0.07 dollars kilowatt energy price makes you about 50 dollars profit.

It may seem a little now but who knows how high the bitcoin price can go so why turning off the rigs now.

Eth is nearly profitable again, it is true - but 0.07USD electric is very cheap! Sure, if you have prices that low get cracking - just know you are lucky! UK is nearly triple that @ standard residential rates.

I have only one mining device at my home and energy is expensive here for residents.I manage a few mining rigs for some of my colleagues and they keep the miners in our company and pay preferential rate of 0.07 dollars per kilowatt so they have turned their rigs on from a few months now.

I would mine even at Uk rates because I think the crypto can boom again soon and even higher than December 2017.

Exactly, we should mine it before only once the price starts increasing we might make a higher amount, now almost we have to spend half of the money for the sake of mining. Once the price starts increasing many people will start mining the Bitcoin which makes us more difficult to mature the coins.

This is one of the the silliest deed that can be. They are not miners, they are stealers. And their quantity is so small, that we cant count them. Yet, i dont think that they are thinking about "I Turned My Rigs Off"

Bet you wouldn't! I did for a few months, but once it is clear that you are actually really spending £800 a month electric and get £801 (or less) in crypto one does start to think 'WTF am I doing?' - it's basically a very, very time and hardware intensive method to avoid using an exchange.

so am I, my rig is still in the corner of the room with dust. this situation is still not profitable, but who knows it will be profitable again later? I hope so

When I turned off my rigs I took a decision to sell every GPU, because everyday your GPU suffer from depreciation, sometimes it's best to have money in your pocket and if better times comes, you can buy new GPUs again easy
I sold everything I had, and no regreat, for me it's not smart to have money invested in rigs and they are on dust...it's your money after all

When they are only using small mining rigs and it's not so emerged. Those get caught caused by they are using mining that consumes a lot of electricity and then they have created a big power consumption.

I just think what they wanna do is always "I turned my rigs on" because I earn something without nothing.  ;D that's a fun fact

The new upcoming AMD Navi gpu's are coming out this summer, so just maybe you reinvest what you sold for and re-enter the mining scene. Also Bitcoin has been on the rise since the start of 2019, so that should help profitability.

It doesnt matter big or small rig. Its steal in both cases. And i think that sometime its becomes known. May be several years later, it doesnt matter. Thief is a thief.

Yes, exactly. Especially many of these miners where mining coins only for the CPU. They use the processing power of processors that are installed in different organizations. In fact, it is a theft of electricity and computing power, which is converted into money. But the most interesting thing is that they do not consider themselves thieves.

It is not always green as their can be some off days and seasons. I have not been so much of a miner but I see that the venture is not favorable to all persons and for some kind situations. Not sure setting up a farm in my part of the world will be worth it

Damn.

OP was paying 0,06 for kw and still wasn't profitable.

Back when I was mining in 2013 or so I paid 0,25 or more, with extra fee for excess consumption.

And was profitable for a while! Especially since I held until 2017.

I hope the mining scene recovers soon.

Turn off your rigs, indeed... hehe  8)

Too much competition and the difficulties increasing like crazy due to crazy hash power, now the miners seem to be cooling down but still leaving the high difficulties and that could make the whole blockchain slowing down aswell. The only way for instant profit recovery for all these miners that still running until now is the new ATH.

Try to calculate by yourself. But dont compare results with the end of 2017. Compare it with real life investment. What ROI you get, how much work you have to do, your chances to lose money, etc.

The mining is one of the profitable business right now. If you work hard on it. It is the same for any business.

if it should be ATH, then it should not be fast - it need to approach it quickly and confidently, otherwise after that the market will fall again and prices will go down and then mining will definitely be without profit.
In fact, this is a direct competition - the strongest win and will remain mine

Your going to need a 20k bitcoin in order to get $2 dollars per gpu per day and I would consider this fair work for fair pay from a small line of work business accounting perspective.

In order to get party time $5 dollars a day per gpu like the good ole days you will need a 60k-100k+ btc price.  So don't expect party time anytime this year.  Give it 2-3 years.

Currently the 1080ti gets $1.3 USD per day with ~$0.5 power cost, used card in warranty costs $500~600 on ebay. Not that bad if you still plays some games.

Just make mining seasonal, a winter event, if it will double as a heater and that heat exchange will save you on heating cost.

It sounds like: "Just make your job seasonal". Mining is a work. You ought to analyze different markets, coins. You have to make research what coin may be interesting in future and what would cost nothing.