Bitcoin Forum

I wrote the following in a discussion about gold and silver standards on another board.  Enjoy!

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Clear eyes, my friends, clear eyes.  Over the long term, judge the true nature of a system by its fruits, not by the words attached to it, especially those uttered by central banks.

Did the dollar and other state currencies retain their values in gold or silver?  No.

Did the bankers and politicians create lots of money and debt under the standards?  Yes.

Did the gold and silver standards suppress the currency price of precious metals temporarily?  Yes, by definition, the currency price of gold/silver was fixed.

Did the elites keep installing this system over 300+ years, knowing it had 'failed' and would 'fail' everywhere?  Probably.  England's financial inflation was out of control less than ten years after the Bank of England was founded in 1690.  (It's not as if the elites have been inexperienced!)

Given this history, you have to forgive me for engaging in the wild, conspiracy-theory-nutsy speculation that, juuuuuuuuuuuuust perhaps, the elites used the metallic standards to prop up paper money and debt so they could create more of them.

Gold and silver standards did work as designed, however, when, after the bursting of a financial bubble, it was time to transfer most of the pain to the public, and away from the elites who had created the bubble in the first place, by choking the money supply, in the name of safeguarding the gold/silver standard and upholding the moral commitment to redeem paper for the same amount of gold or silver.  (Their golden goose system would have lost credibility fast if they had chosen devaluation/inflation as a response to the crisis -- i.e. they would have paid the price for the bubble.)

Absolutely brilliant.  (In reality, 'fiat money' is not worthy enough to tie the shoes of the gold standard, from the elites' point of view.  That's why, most likely, it won't last, and we're going back to something like the gold standard, except with multiple 'hard monies,' including Bitcoin.)

And true, there is no free market in money in this world.  That was my point (in response to the claim that the dollar is world reserve currency because of supply and demand.)

We should count ourselves lucky for being born in the narrow window of history when the elites lost control.  Do not lose the opportunity to profit spectacularly from it.

"Gold is money, everything else is credit" J.P. Morgan

Between the crash of 1929 and 1932 people lost a lot, everything for some. Roosevelt forced the Americans to sell their gold, all that to recapitalize wall street. The Dollar has allowed the United States to live on credit.  2008 crisis, no need to explain how banks have been saved ::)
The current system is designed as such as there is no other end than a collapse. At that moment people will realize the power of gold.

Central banks created private ICO and governments participated in airdrops bounty campaigns

Both Bitcoin and the gold has similar qualities Each Other because there are lots of things will be available to get investment on Bitcoin and also in Gold we are using a test commonly for future use so and comparing two gold Bitcoin also be a good investment right now

When we talk about fiat money in general, this is already the case: it doesn't last.

Source: https://www.dinardirham.com/the-rise-and-fall-of-fiat-currencies/

So, yes, it should be obvious: the sooner we go back to the gold standard, or even better, the sooner we adopt bitcoin on a large scale, the better it will be for everyone.

Excellent points.

One of the things with transacting in gold and silver is that, often, you aren't transacting in the real deal. Under the gold/silver standards there was still a central bank, or authority, that issued notes that were representative of its value in gold/silver. That is not a trustless system, and it's next to impossible to not abuse this system through fractional reserve, and eventually defaulting on the promises of paying the bearer on demand in precious metals in physical form.

That's essentially what happened that brought the gold standard era to an end. At the end of the day, it's all an illusion.

Bitcoin is different. You don't need a central entity in order to transact with it efficiently (as opposed to the bulky nature of precious metals), and intrinsically, there can be no fractional reserve. The fungibility of currency is also preserved much better than precious metals, since purity and weight don't need to be tested.

The British pound was worth about a quarter ounce of gold going back a little more then a hundred years ago.   The main reason it slipped was the decline of the British empire and with great upset it was easier for government not to maintain a solid monetary standard because of debts repayable in that would have been difficult to repay without upset.

Similar to now, its very unlikely the many trillions of debt will repaid with a Dollar of worth known in 2019.   The debt in future will repaid in dollars worth even less then now, making it far easier then keeping an even value.
That effect plays into Bitcoin or many prices which are not being devalued daily by that process, all costs are apparent in the mining and other stated costs.

I doubt we return to a solid gold standard, more likely a variety of alternatives but its unlikely US dollar will remain the main global reserve currency however its likely to be one of many like Sterling remains despite having no silver coins left

I agree that Bitcoin, as it was conceived originally, leaves no room for fractional reserves. But it is always in our human nature to look for loopholes and exploits. For example:

Source: https://medium.com/@whatbitcoindid/the-threat-of-fractional-reserve-bitcoin-from-wall-street-with-saifedean-ammous-caitlin-long-2d61e63ac868

It seems that exchanges currently, and EFTs in the future, may serve as hidden sources of fractional reserves built using Bitcoin.

I have no idea how big the danger is, but there is definitely a danger of fractional reserves even in Bitcoin we should be aware of.

The same dilemma is already present with the various gold ETFs. There is much discussion of whether or not the "ETF gold" is really backed up by existing physical gold.

The gold and silver is being here in this world since from a very long period of time so we cannot been comparing the Bitcoin to the the silver and gold will not be right thing because the stability of gold will be more stronger than anything people are using this is a huge future investment but in today's situation cryptocurrency play the same that's why the comparison is here.

You are right. Bitcoin will have a chance to be the next precious things as gold in the new era. I am sure that at the right time and the right moment, bitcoin will be the expensive things that we have besides gold and silver. I do not doubt that bitcoin will make people amaze because bitcoin can be a new source of the investment and it's different than gold and silver, and they must have at least 1 bitcoin as their investment.

Yeah, unfortunately the crisis of 2008 was overcome with the money of tax payers. Those who were rich remained rich, the authorities whose fault the whole thing was remained in control, and it's the weaker groups like older people lost what they truly needed... People might realize the power of gold, but it's too late to turn back to gold standard anyway. This is because even a couple of decades ago there were too many financial interactions between humans to be covered by gold. There's simply not enough gold for that. That's why cryptos like Bitcoin might come in handy after the collapse or as a way to avoid the crush althogether by gradual transfer from fiat to it. There's enough Bitcoin, there's definite knowledge about the amount of Bitcoin and about the mining rates in time.

I do agree with most of the historic parts of the discussion and certainly the "elites" are not even the elites anymore.

Back in the day elites were people who had strong families that are known because the lands were not really covered big and if you had a strong family in any country you reside you would be basically having your own huge lands where people live and you were not even king, say you are in ottoman empire in the biggest time of their era and there was a king on top of everything but you had a huge land in antioch and everyone knew who you were and you basically just rented the city to people and collected the cash, that was "elites" back in the day.

Moreover, in today's world the elites are hiding, they are not doing stuff with general public, they do what they do behind closed doors, they do not want or need fame at all. I don't think they "lost" control just yet, they are just hiding right now.

If you have notice the Russian financial proposals then you might be agree with in 19th century itself. They were proposing the gold usage to value of wealth but fact US made USD to calculate it.
Soviet Russia is not accepting it for long time. I believe in future bitcoin or gold may get accepted as mainstream wealth calculation tool for us.
Note one more in that we got bitcoin in the 2009 only exactly after the crisis time.

The price of gold will rise to about 10,000 an ounce is the calculation I heard by Jim Rickards, any less of a price would be too tight a standard to allow commerce easily.    You cant assume the conditions present now with gold unused  will be close to a world where dollar is a minor to backing by gold.  
This would be the largest change in economies, in politics for entire nations the world would be changing just to switch back to any kind of gold exchange over our current far extreme of debt, deficit, QE and promises via paper.   The easiest thing to note would be very likely a higher price.

Crypto will be useful I agree but in a different way to run parallel to world trade for digital exchange and I think it should be and probably will be forced to be low cost in order to be competitive vs a dozen possible alternatives in a post debt collapse world.   Competition is a good thing, again its full reversal to the reality for billions of workers now who live under political debt as money

I have an interesting link to an article that differentiated gold and bitcoin and also compared them. (But sadly I forgot where it is)

Unlike bitcoin, gold is indeed tangible where you will also be able to use as a piece of jewelry, not just an investment.
Gold has been used as a form of currency for more than 2,000 years and considered as one of the safest and secured investments of all since the value doesn't depreciate mostly.

But yes, bitcoin is also created by mining just like gold, but there's a gap compared to gold because bitcoin is mined electronically and that is a very big discussion if bitcoin would like to ask for an investor. Gold is a physical object and bitcoin is entirely digital. Just check the article and you will know more.

Gold and silver were and remain eternal value. The value of cryptocurrency is not yet verified by time. On the prospects of cryptocurrency, it is too early to say anything. It takes at least a hundred years to be able to say that this type of investment and means of payment is stable and in demand. So far, the cryptocurrency has not occupied a certain niche in the financial relations of society, it has just begun to develop.

By 'losing control,' I meant that the elites were forced to allow gold and silver prices to go up in currency terms.  By 1971, the entire world (with the exception of Switzerland), including the core country, the US, had to officially abandon the gold standard and anything else based on it.

This was very significant when you consider that, at least in the core countries, first Britain and then the US, state currency had basically never been devalued against gold since the Bank of England was founded in 1690.

And I don't think the confiscation of gold from Americans can be repeated at this point.  In 1933 America and Americans had most of the world's gold, and gold had been officially recognized as the only true money for 60+ years by Britain and America.  (Not even silver was considered money.)  Americans still had a lot of trust in the government.

Under these conditions, it made sense for the elites to try financial repression (legally forcing Americans to turn in their gold for the previous fixed price of $20+ per ounce) as a major support for their system.  The reality is almost the exact opposite today, so I don't think they will try that trick again.

Thanks, these are good points too!  The architecture of money that I envision is:  (and BTW this includes 'fiat money', which IMO is in reality a flexible gold standard, if we define the gold standard by its true nature which is the suppression of gold prices to support the issuance of paper money and debt by the elites.  Books like 'Gold Wars' and 'The Gold Cartel' have exposed serious evidence of the elites' use of derivatives to suppress gold and silver under the 'fiat' system.)

At the base level, you have hard money like physical gold and Bitcoin which are trustless, anonymous and fungible (and maybe Bitcoin is more convenient than gold, but remember Bitcoin is just code and data, where unlimited new altcoins can be created.)

Above that level, there is central bank money.  Central banks of core countries are wise enough not to abuse their power to issue this money too obviously.  This issuance is, in reality and over the long term, dependent on the amount of hard money each central bank holds, one way or another.

Above that level, there is debt (or equivalent) issued by major governments and institutions like commercial banks, big corporations and pension funds.  The elites in core countries are eager to protect the trust in this 'money' too, but this is not as important as central bank money.

And very roughly speaking, above that level, there all sorts of 'stores of value' which are outer-ring financial assets like stocks, lesser corporate bonds, real estate, etc.  These are the least safe, especially at times like these.  The elites will protect these when possible, and abandon them when necessary, especially if the crash can be blamed on reasons that don't trace back to the nature of their system, in public opinion.  The system tries to portray gold and Bitcoin as being among these assets, when in reality they are different beasts all together.

The outer layers around Bitcoin have not yet been built, and I don't think they will look superficially like those around gold, but they will, and will work essentially the same as those around gold, even though they might be advertised as something totally different in the story for the public.

For example, when it's time to reduce the money supply to control the dollar price of Bitcoin, it won't be the old story that 'we have to live up to our moral responsibility to redeem dollars for the same amount of gold, since only gold is real money.'  It will be something like 'Bitcoin prices rising is a sign the public is losing faith in the dollar, and this is followed by disastrous financial crashes, so we must reduce the money supply to restore faith in the dollar.'

In reality, whichever story is used, comes out to be the same thing.

I wouldn't say gold will always hold a good value, what if asteroid mining becomes viable in the future?  The price of gold and other precious metals may plummet as the market gets flooded.

I do believe even if asteroid mining becomes viable, it wont affect gold price too much. Gold is still gold which is still one of the most favorite asset to invest by most people in this world. It will not be easy to change people's interest from something to a new thing.

I honestly think no "public" money, will be deemed suitable for any government, simply because it is not controlled by them. People who think that Bitcoin would replace fiat currencies as reserve currencies are truly delusional and this is coming from someone that are very passionate about Bitcoin.

We have to be realistic and know that Bitcoin will always serve the purpose as being the alternative currency to fiat currencies, because it was created for that purpose and not to replace fiat currencies.  :P  <Gold and Silver is a commodity, not a currency.>  ;)

I agree, probably neither Bitcoin nor gold and silver will replace state currency, except, perhaps, in an unlikely but possible scenario of total collapse of trust in certain institutions.

But back to reality... the real issue is the exchange rate between different monies, not what narrative is currently being promoted by the elites and their economists.  Remember, when gold was declared the only true money by the establishment, it earned zero return.  When it was declared a barbarous relic after 1971, it appreciated 30-fold.

The key thing to remember is that reality is almost always different from the official 'story,' as the system is basically deceptive.

No matter what the official story, one effective way of viewing the system is that, whatever you call it, 'depreciation' of state currency against 'hard' monies will be a long term trend, since there are fundamentally built-in incentives for the elites to abuse their control of state currency.

Comparatively gold is better than Bitcoin but we cannot compare these things equally because these hard different qualities to make our profit. stable if we invest in Gold it will give the less amount of profit for long time but cryptocurrencies are different from the gold in cosmetic it will give quick investment and quick profit at any point of time

Bitcoin/Altcoins, Gold/Silver may not replace the state currencies but they can co-exist together and/or be complementary to each other. We don't even need a collapse to see it happens, it's up to the population to decides to use it like this, we don't have to wait for a central bank or another institution. In the opposite, they will have to adapt to the new trend

Bitcoin is somewhat similar to gold, because it is like the precious metal is only in limited quantities.
Gold mined around the world today is about 171 thousand tons and it is not so easy to print as dollars or any other bill.
Therefore, if in the near future the world begins to regulate bitcoin, it will only grow in price like gold every year. (although until now the price has been rising for 10 years)

Yes, it is defined like this. Gold has long been tested by time. We do not yet know how long a cryptocurrency will exist. It will take a lot more time for the cryptocurrency to find its permanent niche in our society. In the meantime, gold will exist as a constant, stable value, unlike cryptocurrency with its simply explosive volatility.

If we look at this in a layered way. 

1st preference for state is to issue purely their own debt notes.   Tied to no value but their word
2nd preference will be gold and silver because every country of the world has a gold resource in their borders, some places are better off but overall its obtainable by most directly or in exchange
3rd and least popular to governments I think is this totally independent blockchain they do not mine it themselves and some of the network will be foreigners.    To use a 3rd party network as your national currency is extreme unlikely

The IMF have proposed releasing a global crypto standard that will be tied to each country via politics and again this likely is under their country not independent.  This event is more likely then 3rd party use

I think it looks unlikely that any big or powerful entity will release its own cryptocurrency in the short to medium term.  It might use blockchains for new settlement networks, etc., but that would just be additional infrastructure for dollars, euro, bank debt, etc.

The reason is that most of the public still don't trust cryptos as a store of value (just look at the price swings!)  If the elites want to promote cryptos (which I think the very top monetary elites secretly do, ultimately as a way to inflate away the debts in the system) they must make an alliance with libertarian-minded state-free-money fans who like cryptos, and allow or make 'state-free' cryptos to appreciate, at least until cryptos are established as a true asset in the public imagination.

You notice how Bitcoin is always the dominant crypto, despite all the 'competition.'  I think the reason is that, if Bitcoin is destroyed, the entire crypto space is in danger, because people can see that no crypto-type asset is safe from destruction.  It would be in the interest of these elites to preserve Bitcoin's dominant position.  Trust me, everything is manipulated, there is no such thing as a free market in money.

So, never mind something like the IMF, even something like Facebook won't release its own crypto any time soon.  I'm sure Mark Zuckerberg would love to have the wealth from issuing FacebookCoin.  But think of the effects on the whole crypto-space.  FacebookCoin would shoot up, because of the power and influence of Facebook, but everyone would see how the space can easily be dominated by big players, and is not really safe from the elites.  So Zuckerberg can't be allowed to do it.  (And I do think the elites at that level are a lot more organized than we know.  What are the odds that Facebook took down the page of the pro-Assange former Ecuadorean president the day of his arrest?)

Right from inception the bank, the government and all the elite have design the world economy in the way that it will favor only them and the system have always been like that, but thank God for the coming of bitcoin and cryptocurrency that have given the ordinary citizens the right over they own financial love life without the control of any third party.

I like the old adage that says "the only permanent things is change" which holds true for humans specifically on how we conduct payment processes since the idea of gold and silver being used as a wealth of value and in turn as a payment vehicle in early years of human civilization prove inadequate to met the rising needs of humans to conduct efficient transfer of value between entities, hence the creation of fiat currency and emergence of banking institutions. But now, we all know that fiat together with financial institutions have certain limitations which could not be mitigated and thus spun the birth of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. In a matter of years, I think there will be a global evolution on the massive adoption of cryptocurrency.

And what about if there is a "control" on the crypto industry by banks/governments/institutions? It will be a point of failure we will have to admit, right? Then, I am sorry to tell you but it's already happening. Step by step. Today they start with regulations, it's like controlling. In 10 years a collection of regulations will give great power. And people are accepting that! Totally the opposite of what Satoshi intended to create. Too bad!

I agree with the point that bitcoin is like gold and silver, i reffer here to limited supply and high demand for bitcoin, and this can make the price grow in future, possible always the price will grow before or after halving.

It seems to me that the history of the use of gold and silver by mankind is in no way connected with the history of the development of cryptocurrency, and even more so with its future. Still, these are completely different and incomparable things, and in most factors being compared, they are just the opposite.
Gold and silver will always remain precious metals, and what will happen to the value of Bitcoin, we can not say for sure yet. The statement that its price. will constantly grow, is unlikely to be true. In practice, this will not happen.

You're dead wrong - like gold bitcoin is mined. It is scarce with mild inflation, and in practice deflationary. It is thus a store of value like gold. Hence, bitcoin is digital gold.

It is your thinking gold is not like bitcoin, according to me gold is much low in value as compare to bitcoin, silver is good but it is less in value of gold and gold is less in value of bitcoin, crypto currency has better future as more investors are investing only in bitcoin not in gold or silver, we should try to accept the reality of time and invest in best investment which is bitcoin,

A lot of people talk about reverting to the gold standard or whatnot. I say that it is intrinsically flawed.

Why? Because you are relying on a central bank to keep enough reserves (certainly not full reserve) of a precious metal so that the bearer can actually redeem their notes on demand. That in itself has never been fulfilled as demonstrated by the debasement of currency under the gold standard time and time again.

After all, it's just a promissory note that the central bank is issuing under the gold standard. Not gold itself. Even though technically they are bound to pay you in gold/silver, but can you redeem a silver certificate of the past for actual silver now? Obviously not.

With bitcoin you don't need this central organization to keep their reserves, and issue gold/silver certificates that acts as currency. BTC is already on chain and can be transacted with, with ease. There is no worries about fractional reserve, no worries about changing policies. None of that.

Not certain about the economics of it but it seems that people are always willing to buy and store precious metals. It's definitely a good measure in countries where the government demonetizes their currency. Of course demonetization is even less of a problem for bitcoins.


I thought the cyclical collapse was intentional?  ;D Isn't it the time when they get to snag cheap assets?

Satoshi knew that fiat was a bullsh*t system which is why he created bitcoin in the first place. Gold is the only true store of value, and bitcoin is digital gold. No idea what fiat is..

Gold and silver has probably 3000+ year old history, I know the speed we live in is much faster nowadays and now we are building rockets that go to space and than come back in one peace and all that but still how could you think that something that has a 3000+ year old life span could be compared to crypto that has a bit over 10 years now ?

It certainly could go that way but something that started out in 2008 can't be really following the same path of gold or silver, it has to have much different trajectory to actually be part of the speed we live in as well. It can be on the same road but it has to cover that road much faster, I am sure gold usage for purchases didn't became something millions of people used in under 10 years but bitcoin did, so even if the path is same (which I doubt) bitcoin needs to run that road not walk it.

Gold and silver are both good for a long term hold because they never lose their value and it even increases in time. We won't have any doubts about the value of it because it is rising continuously. It's something that we could have and hold physically. While cryptocurrency is something that we could not hold physically but grows eventually. It's something that we should look over because of its volatility and unstability.

I like with the word co-exist, and yeah, that is what bitcoin, gold, and fiat can do to solve the finances problem in all countries. Maybe it's hard to explain to the people but once people understand the purpose, I think they can accept that bitcoin, gold, and fiat can work together to solve every problem that might happen in the future. We will see a new world if that is happening because we are backup by three things that could help people to solve their problem too.

Fiat to me is the bridge between material and financial valuation. Fiat create value to our access. In other words, even bitcoin, gold, silver and other materials and mineral resources have their value in fiat.

Fiat is the measurement to value the product but the product is the matter for this fiat money. Hope you do not know the old culture and current financial politics from USA. If you know about these two things alone means you will not say like this.
I really feel pathetic on your understanding. If the gold decides the market also people will be happy not want to be slave in the name of USD. world worst and crazy money.

The development is different for Bitcoin and comparing two gold and silver so we cannot say this is the right way in this situation if it was good enough there is some attention will be created between the investment that is the development needed to invest in cryptocurrency.

There is only really one thing backing FIAT Currency and it is a big thing, but it is the national borders and ability to demand taxes within that country.   To operate FIAT you first must have an economy of sorts and the control of trade between that country and others.   Ideally the country must have alot of trade to take place with others, in both directions or the FIAT will be very weak and not in demand if the imports are too many and the exports too few.

The present scenario and upset we have ongoing in the world in regard to FIAT is that debt is in operation.   The trade between countries is not balanced properly and there is a political bias in the system away from plain trade.   Partly military bias and partly just agreement of many countries to support the ongoing hegemony partly out of fear of Russia and other communist states and the threat of ww3

SO we have open trade not always respected, 'value' attributed from other factors.   There is too much debt accumulated and stored in hope of value delivered in future which may or may not occur.   Without trade done, FIAT does not have value and only in a profitable economy can taxes be demanded and the worth of FIAT to pay those taxes gives it value.   Its very possible for a failed economy to lead to failed value of FIAT and no demand and no longer any usage for that currency.    

for now it seems like that, in fiat only can be arranged by a number of countries, they like to easily do that. but this will be different in crypto where we are free to create without someone managing, and in the future I think it will have a level of trust like gold

USA GDP in the fourth quarter of 2018 $20 870 000 000 000
https://www.bea.gov/news/2019/initial-gross-domestic-product-4th-quarter-and-annual-2018

BTC market cap: $92 612 555 685
https://coinmarketcap.com/

Gold supply around 190 040 tonnes, with price  41 035 600 USD per tonne
https://www.gold.org/about-gold/gold-supply/gold-mining/how-much-gold
Which will give us 190 040 * 41 035 600 and it will be roughly $7 798 405 425 000

So
20 870 000 000 000
 -7 798 405 425 000
      -92 612 555 685

So we find just another 12 trillions and we could move on and find the money for the rest of the world.

Absolutely there is no doubt about this, Bitcoin will eventually become our digital gold in the nearest future, but fiat still has a great role to play in this industry. For now, until government dealers another mean as legal tender, there is no gold without fiat and there is no Bitcoin too without fiat.

For everyone to get gold, fiat must have exchanged hands while this is also applicable to Bitcoin too, that is why satoshi never created crypto to compete with fiat but rather serve as an alternative payment tool to fiat, so there is no competition here, bitcoin is just a way to simplify the difficulty fiat has brought to its user as regard payment.

What are you talking about? Did you ever look at BTC whitepaper? It describes different and very specific practical goals.

People moved away from using gold as a basis because it became pointless, and you want to move back?
It is better to focus on new ways of economic interactions which could be done only via crypto, instead just adding "blockchain" and "BTC" everywhere you could. Nothing will change in the world economy if you keep threat new, potentially revolutionary things, the same way as old one.

If we are not careful banks and governments can eventually do the same that they did to gold, under the excuse that they are better at protecting your coins than you are, and that will be true for the majority of people, they will create bitcoin banks where people can hold their bitcoins and then they will create a currency above it and when they eventually control most of the bitcoin of the world they will begin to print that currency as much as they want once again.

@South Park

A bank can't issue a currency that has no legal status by a government. At best, they can only create a token or a point system that has no real value. Something like 100 token=$1=1 month free banking
BTC would need approval first from the government before banks start to jump in.

Some of the Muslim banks avoid debt which is against their religious code by issuance of Palladium bars at set prices agreed between customer and bank.   So its an agreement but without debt with profit for the bank in that agreement and of course the customer gains use of value they would not have otherwise.
So thats a kind of currency use without resort to FIAT leverage or legally relying on the status given by government.  I'm sure its with the knowledge of government but not exactly a new currency, more of an old one

The use of gold or any of these alternatives to the dollar debt system as actually currency and stored as reserve asset would monetise and change the price for BTC or gold or anything.  It would all have to readjust, its hard to predict by saying the pricing now or even the supply, if gold is used more the supply will rise as certain deposits of gold become profitable to mine

So you just want to inflate their price disregarding it's a value? Imagine prices for electronics, medical and scientific equipment and so on when precious metals skyrocket. It will only increase the gap between rich and poor.

You gave a very good explanation and I think this is the kind of article we need in this forum, and not a bunch of people coming on the forum to spam it with topics that are not relevant to anyone, people are already seeing bitcoin as the digital gold we have in existence, a lot of gold holders are already splitting their asset and investing them into bitcoin because they know what is coming to us won't be funny if you don't have possession of the digital gold.

Uuhm...whatever, it still doesn't change the fact that fiat (current monetary system) will still remaining what it is, nothing is going to change that. Gold and the rest of them, including bitcoin, are all assets/stocks, that's why you should always invest in them to make money as things continue to turn out like this.

You don't need anyone to tell you what to do, just find somewhere to save your worth, so that no matter what happens to the fiat, you will still be growing and even make more money.

But why did the elites start gold/silver standards all over the world, again and again, even after many failures?  Because it was stable at first.  There was enough gold to back the paper, at first.  So the elites could benefit from issuing paper, at first.  The key variables were the exchange rate between paper and gold or silver, and how much precious metal reserves are held by the elites.  The elites wanted gold/silver standards because it benefited them.  At a high enough price of gold, a gold standard can always be stable, at first.  (Are we starting to get an idea how a new 'Bitcoin standard' might work now?)

What you're saying is that the public story about the gold standard will be different from the public story about the coming system based on cryptos.  I would agree.  But I would add that the true nature of the two systems will basically be the same.  Public stories are fundamentally deceptive, when it comes to the money system.

both will always be side by side, bitcoin will not be valuable if it cannot be converted to fiat, so also gold without fiat gold will not have very valuable value.

Therefore, before creating this digital currency, Satoshi certainly had his own idea that bitcoin would not replace Fiat but would make it easier for users to make alternative payment transactions using Bitcoin through the internet

Gold bugs definitely feel threatened by crypto:

https://www.ccn.com/world-gold-council-blinks-bitcoin


The big question is whether some holders of gold will diversify into crypto "just in case". From a risk management point of view, diversification makes sense.

No one should be threatened by Bitcoin. Bitcoin will solely point to why current financial system sucks and make value of gold way higher in the future. Yes right now it takes some shine away off the Golds, but that is just temporary. What I like most recently is that people, institutions and governments are realizing that if they dont hold their gold is not really their gold. 

They fail to admit cryptocurrencies can be an alternative adapted to the demand or to the current state of the economy. If there is a demand you can't stop that unless you disgust people from it. (What they can do with all the articles published bashing Bitcoin.)

But more the demand increases and more the ecosystem replies to the demand and this is an organic growth. "established regulatory framework" people got tired with this because this is never for the customers benefit, and this is one of the reasons we try to leave the fiat system their dictature framework.

You will have people who will use it as a currency, a store of value, knowing its volatility

bitcoin seems to emerge and provide the right solution for the future with its decentralized system. this system is very contrary to the current system, so it requires a long process to be accepted by most governments. while gold will remain the prima donna to save property

I think currently only a few countries can apply fiat to exchange bitcoins because there are still no clear regulations for exchanging bitcoins with fiat in certain countries which are still being restricted.

The paper money don't have intrinsic value, although many people said that the cost to make a paper money is quite high but it is just a paper. Even many trees has been cutting for paper money creation. It is not good for our earth. I think we will replace paper money with gold and silver. And we will use cryptocurrency for our digital transaction. The value of gold and silver are fixed, I agree about this.

I do not see that with the advent of cryptocurrency, something should change significantly in financial relations in society. Cryptocurrency will be another form of cashless payments and, most likely, will find its wide application among citizens. Whether the business structure will use the cryptocurrency in large quantities will largely depend on the results of legalization.

Gold will not only remain. But Gold will gain a lot more in upcoming years and decades.

If every country regulate the usage of cryptocurrencies there is a possibility for an existence of cryptocurrencies with gold backing to provide added security to the asset we hold through a decentralized medium. Gold will always serve as a trusted source making it remain for decades.

That is because gold is one of the precious metal which is not in excess which means the supply is limited whereas the demand is constantly rising up with the time interval so there is no doubt that the gold markets is going to have immense growth in the coming years but this could also be compared to cryptocurrencies. Even the supply for cryptocurrencies is turning out to be limited in front of the huge number of peoples who are investing into. The markets for cryptocurrencies too would cherish in the future if any of the government does not entangle with them. There are huge profits for the ones who invest into the right markets at the right time.

Cryptocurrency is a system that has come to stay globally and will continue to be on the rise even if the government does not support it. Those who have failed to realize that crypto can be used as tool to solve part of the economy challenge of the state will soon be shocked by the way it will find its way to give a solution to their problem even without their interference.

I am sure many people that would have benefit in the long-term when gold was first introduced but rejected it would be biting their fingers now wherever they are, although they would have been dead by now, we should not be like those people, this is another gold opportunity that has presented itself for us to grab as quick as possible, so that we don’t join the group of people that will be regretting in the future for not buying into cryptocurrency.

This really is a serious issue until now as most of the countries are yet not ready to accept bitcoins as a mean of regulation. Also there are some governments from various countries which are trying to shut down the crypto markets which is really affecting the growth of bitcoins. Once bitcoins are passed from such issues then there will be a huge growth in them as there will be no serious obstacle coming in between the growth of the cryptocurrencies. There are some petitions going on with most of the governments so thinking positively, we can expect a legalised future for cryptocurrencies in each major country.

Those countries are just scared of cryptocurrency because they see it as something that can take power away from them, most government gets their wealth from tax on citizen’s income, at least majority of their income which they use part for investment to make more money into their reserve, now that they cannot know exactly what a citizen that use cryptocurrency for business transaction makes, they will rather go against it completely, but sooner than later, they will have no choice than to legalese it because the benefit of cryptocurrency to their economy is more than the disadvantage of it.

I agree.  But remember that under the gold standard, paper money circulated alongside gold coins.  And the majority of money in circulation was paper.

Now there is a difference in the stories told by the elites.  But we have to remember that these stories are/were designed to fool the public.  The old story was 'gold is money, and paper is debt payable in gold by the central bank.'  The new story will be 'when cryptos go up, it is a sign that savers stopped trusting the government and central bank, and we have to change policy, i.e. stop issuing so much money and debt.'

If you think about it, the two stories will amount to basically the same system, on the ground.  (The proof is left to you as homework!)

Possible. The value of a currency is based on trust, if people stop to trust the dollar, for example, what do you think it's going to happen?
Now thinking people will stop to trust USD and now trust only BTC can only happen in a cartoon TV show.

Even if we admit the current system is a failure, how do you want to 'reset' it with Bitcoin? And it's something that can't be done within a year.

Its not just the dollar.   The dollar is part of the global reserve system and that whole body of exchange between countries is based off credit and debt with influence from politics.     The far older system was a method of exchanging goods and currency was most gold based which is a commodity so it was not especially liable to credit as the base unit must at some point be exchanged.

Our current system allows countries to just endlessly produce more of their debt to exchange for goods, the value of that debt is questionable especially where its never repaid.

To switch over to Bitcoin it would require not just an end to the dollar but the whole system of debt as money.  It would require that actual trade is the basis for world currency and exchange between countries.   Thats a far bigger change then just swapping dollar for another similar named type of paper.   What I think happens next is that dollar goes and we have another FIAT paper system replace it, possibly it will include a bailout of the US debt that was not repayable otherwise.    
This would not be new it would just be similar to the Greek bailout but on a larger scale.   So at first I expect a repeat of the past, then if that fails we might get something new.   Bitcoin has alot to prove to be a bigger replacement rather just a side road off main street

yes I agree always your statement we are blessed to live in this situation especially after the entry of cryptocurrency we have lots of opportunity to get lots of income that's why I accept your topic will be more useful for the life of everyone

I believe I didn't clarify enough, that my argument was that, most likely, both dollars and Bitcoin will be viable.  (It's not one or the other.)  But the key question is exchange rate.  When dollars are over-issued, the authorities will have to allow Bitcoin to appreciate in $ terms, to a level that is now defendable from their point of view.  If and when this is the case, it will be not really different from a flexible form of the gold or silver standard.

Bitcoin is another form of currency that is decentralized and has no authority to follow. While it is in the process of its development,  USD will continue to be the main currency even if we keep on seeing how incapable it is. Gold and silver are still in the market today but if we compare them to bitcoin, there's no doubt that bitcoin has its highest value among them all.

Bitcoin has a lower market capitalisation then gold silver or any precious commodity.   Its very much the new comer, much to prove and with extreme growth potential beyond the belief of many; despite being around a decade.

I worked in tech and telecoms in the 90's through the dotcom boom and though the whole phenomena which was acknowledged as world changing, it was in potential not in actual business by majority done. It was speculative and the dot com boom famously blew up and 'failed' though we realise now the tech was perfectly fine and has become vital to society; now completely obvious with this virus distant working etc.

Ditto with Crypto it will overcook, it will be doubted and for many years onwards for quite a few its just going to be a virtual idea more then a practical tool for many maybe the majority of the world.   I do believe its going to formulate part of the economy in decades forward and hopefully become vital to value transactions.   USD is coming to an end, its failing as a monetary standard are quite clear so its important but I think the decline is also likely required for society world wide to find a better system of less bias and political compromise.   I hope BTC can serve trade but if not crypto will develop further until it achieves this.

The way that ties into Gold for me is this product is not compromised or changed in recent years.   I dont see gold as in decline as the basic value asset it has been for hundreds of year.   However its not going to develop and have growth that crypto should do, so gold price will be rising over years but mostly as dollar fails to hold value.
  All real currency is decentralised, capitalism is decentralised not a system such as kings or giant governments that we had previous and have now.  So crypto fits decentralised exchange of value and also gold will continue to do so also, neither eclipses the other.   Value is always with the people, the rest is about tax and the fight for control over people who wish to be free.