Bitcoin Forum

If I found a sneaky way to offer paypal > btc, what price would you accept :) think people buying there first bitcoins


the current price is 2.93 and my method would work to about 3.30

what would the demand at that rate be ?

If you're able to do this with a simple and clean user experience, I think you'll have a large market at that price.

But if by "sneaky way" you mean that the user will use PayPal to buy A, use A to buy B, and use B to buy bitcoins, it will be closer to 0.

ya, what is this sneaky way?

its:

paypal to buy A
A to buy BTC

^ and the user doesnt need to know about those two :)

and tbh I dont want to give it away until I confirm I cant do it with a clean user experience :)

"sneaky ways" usually end up not working and getting you in trouble.

Hehe. Well said !

the glory of the internet :P

I am reconsidering now...

oh doing some research I also found a competing way that is more secure and trusted, I tried it out now and it worked nearly instantly

go to virwox

buy LD at ~260 LD/USD

buy BTC at ~ ~950 LD/BTC

works quite well and that's what I will recomend to people in the future

And how much did that cost in fees?

Edit: Also, do you have to install SL / have a SL account to do it?

You don't need a SL account... just make up a fake avatar name and it works fine.  Fees are reasonable, but you won't be able to do this at scale.  Virwox has fairly small daily transaction limits.

This doesn't work because:

When a user disputes a Paypal payment, and they didn't even know they were first buying LD, then how will you prove to paypal that they got what they were paying for?

So chargebacks will happen probably with 100% success for those filing disputes.

Ya I wouldn't do this "sneaky way" if i were you

the only way to sell bitcoins right now via paypal or credit card that is even remotely safe is to sell physical bitcoins. However there is still a high possibility of charge back in that case as well and for instance Memory Dealers although doing it in the safest way possible is still assuming a decent amount of risk selling an irreversible coin to a very reversible paypal

I did the VirWox purchase just to see how it all worked and what happens.

I signed up for Virwox and made up an avatar name at random.

I deposited $40 via Paypal.  After the fees (PayPal's) I had $38.34 in my Virwox account.

I bought  9486.76 SLL - $0.34 left over.

I then bought 9 BTC for 8630.96 SLL.  Virwox will only let you buy whole amounts - no 9.5 BTC for example.  I now have 855.71 SSL left over.

So, I effectively spent $35 for 9 BTC = $3.89 per BTC.  Plus I have some extra SLL and USD sitting in my VirWox account.

I tried to widthdraw my BTC and got this message "Your withdrawal request has been received. However, a manual step is required before it can be completed. More information can be found here"  "here" is a link to a FAQ:

"What is the "manual step" required to process some withdrawals, and how long does it take?

Withdrawals to bank accounts are usually processed on the morning of the next business day. While most withdrawals to PayPal, NETELLER, Moneybookers, and Bitcoin accounts are processed instantly, we manually check some of them for security reasons. They will be processed within 48 hours. In any case, you will receive an email confirmation when the withdrawal has been processed."

I've not gotten my BTC yet, but it's only been 10 minutes.  The FAQ says 48 hours.

Anyway, I can't see using this method unless you MUST use paypal. It's too expensive.

Hope I helped.

Within a few weeks you will be able to use VirWox (paypal, moneypak...) to fund your TradeHill / Gox / Intersango account using Bitinstant.com

All done in one easy process, by the company you all know and trust  :D
Will keep everyone updated

-Charlie

Note that I have not disclosed my sneaky method, and I just checked out virwox for fun aswell :)

Keep in mind that Paypal forbids the use of their system to buy/sell bitcoins. Coinpal was a successful site to buy bitcoins with Paypal that ended up having its account frozen.
If your "sneaky way" doesn't include a way to hide yourself from Paypal, you won't go to far.
The only way I can see a paypal<->BTC exchange operating is under these terms (http://bitcoinweekly.com/articles/anonymous-money-needs-an-anonymous-exchange), but that doesn't address the considerable chargeback risks, and I wouldn't call it a "simple and clean user experience" either.

How does virwox do it for interest sake?

It would take too long before Paypal discover the "sneaky" methods and plug the loopholes.

Don't think so. Those folks over at PP are determined to screw us over hard and soon.

Please let us know how long it eventually takes to get your BTC.  Thanks.

Just followed the same process on Virwox. Made an account, deposited the maximum amount (56USD) via paypal. Ended up with 14 BTC (with 80cents and some 630SLL left in account). This comes out to $4/BTC after all of the fees (assuming I never use the service again and just leave the leftover SLL and USD in there). Pretty steep.

I also got this "manual step" message as well though, we'll see how long the actual withdrawal takes.

if you are gonne leave them there, you can send them to me and if you would like I can send you the fraction of the bitcoin, else it could be a donation. I just dont like the idea of virwox eating it up forever

24hours later and still no bitcoins in my wallet :(

Any communication at all from them?

nope. but it said up to 48 hours, so if I don't have them by tomorrow I'll send them an e-mail.

sent you some SLL

Got my BTC about an hour ago.  so about 40 hours later.  The FAQ said 48, so it's all good.

gonna send you back now now :) check pm

Received this morning, about 45 hours after the transfer was initiated. I wonder if a second transfer will be quicker?

I wonder the same thing.  Was this delay only for the first one?  The FAQ seems to imply that:

"While most withdrawals to PayPal, NETELLER, Moneybookers, and Bitcoin accounts are processed instantly, we manually check some of them for security reasons"

(emphasis mine)

In any case, it's too expensive to do on a regular basis.  I was just curious how the process went.