Bitcoin Forum

I see a lot of topics talking about why bitcoin did this or that. Sometimes there are clear indicators as of why but many times it simply happens. Coincidence, trading bots and simple TA can affect the price and create a snowball effect easily.

Imagine 3 whales with 1000 btc each decide to sell bitcoin and by chance they do so at the same time. Of course the price will tank and people will wonder why, bots will follow and so on.

As I have always said in other forums , price is mainly determined by demand, and demand is driving by adoption, product development and other factors just to mention a few but with some respect to the whales. For example, the current run being experience in the price of bitcoin in my own opinion is not driving by whales but by mass adoption and positive news currently hitting the crypto space from the like of Facebook, Microsoft and the host of others. With this I would say adoption and project development drives in demand and demand in turn drives up price.

We all know that the price depends on demands and we all know that every traders have their own choice,
We couldn't just expect things to happen because we have so many traders and we all have different decision,
So the price movement wouldn't really have a clear reason we could just always speculate things and think that it is the reason.

The number of Bitcoin adoption and acceptance also affects the number of demands. As the number of investors increases, it also affects the price of Bitcoin positively. There are good things happening in the market which has a good impact on the price of Bitcoin. If things will happen continuously, the value could strike even higher.

actually there always is a reason for any rise of all it is just that we can't find that reason in half the times when the rise of fall is happening and usually we figure it out a while after.

not every time. it will depend on when and how they sell large amounts. for example if they sell it all in one exchange, nothing will change. if they spread it among exchanges then the amount may not be enough to make a difference but there is a better change.
and most importantly is the timing. for example when people weren't sure about the direction and many were feeding them FUD about how price is going to $1000, such sells crashed the market about 50% from $6000 but if the same thing happened today it won't even cause a 5% drop let alone 50% because the market is on the move and such sells would be against the direction and will be eaten by the market like a piece of cake.

There are lots of possible reasons but those reasons are still unconfirmed and unsure. We couldn't conclude things through the reasons that we're stating.
If BTC is rising, I guess it's because things are meant to happen that way just like what happened last 2017.
There are also events which are affecting and influencing the BTC price.

This is why this market is always unpredictable and you do got the point that we don't actually know on what are the real things do happen behind on sudden price increase
or price dump with Bitcoin or simply on the entire market.We do see speculations and news but it doesn't give out the precise thing for it to be a reason.There are lots of
factors actually that's why we investors or traders do continue to speculate basing on what we do experience after all these years.

Basically, in m own opinion, Bitcoin price is been driving by demand from investors towards the Bitcoin halve. We had this long histories, that whenever there's halve, the demand always rise before the halve year, which is 2020, so, this could be a clear reason behind the rise. There are many buyers who are ready to buy Bitcoin for HOLD till the halve.

Your post reminded me of this news:

Kenetic Co-Founder:Bitcoin to Trade at $30,000 by Late 2019, Regardless of Bitcoin ETF (https://cointelegraph.com/news/kenetic-co-founder-bitcoin-to-trade-at-30-000-by-late-2019-regardless-of-bitcoin-etf)


People will always investigate the reasons behind a particular action or event. and with the price of bitcoin would not be different, is the work of market analysts to know the reasons for the increase and fall in prices

Actually you just enumerated to us some of the reasons or factors why bitcoin is moving up or down. There will always be reasons though they can sometimes be subtle, unknown or just simply unbelievable. And we should not anymore be wondering why as this is one of the many traits of bitcoin. With the present bullish movement of bitcoin, analysts and observers noted many factors that triggered the end of the long bitcoin winter and the coming of the spring.

That's a reason most of the old bitcoiners use to say Bitcoin can be surprising. It does some stuff a few times a year when the only thing you can say is "LOL". Often I stop to even wonder what can be the reason, too many theories, analyses, predictions, etc. Fuck that, let's enjoy the market (with the ups and downs). I don't deny analyses but let us be guided by the magic of Bitcoin. (Sometimes it's black magic)  :P

Although people keep wondering why the price has fallen or raised, the truth eventually comes out anyway.
If the spike is a bigger one then the news spreads globally like wildfire. Sometimes the spike occurs just through normal trading where the demand drives the prices upwards or downwards.
It's quite obvious to know that there should be some reason for big spikes in the market.

Of course there are always known reasons why market reacts in positive or negative way. If they were always clear and known it would be much easier to predict possible situations. But people need explanations and justifications, especially if there is a price dump. Usually every explanation is just pure specation that can't be taken for granted. To be able to expain some situation with Bitcoin price we should know all background informations and deep analysis should be done and we are aware that is not always possible.

The reason cypto-currency prices go up and down is solely because the big dogs are all slowly getting a piece of the pie.

Its hard to justify its sudden surge and does the buyers are ready with their position when BTC is going up? probably automated at the first few rounds, the 4k to 6k-ish is already very surprising for me. My friend explained that yes some big buyers are going deep in buy and those expired futures got liquidated and inject more purchases that squeezes things further. Im kinda passive with the intentions now, i just give my best to accumulations, move along trends and stop losses for profits. In a bull market things work differently.

Yes, I could have also the same.mindset on how really the market of bitcoin being dictated. I somehow find that there are huge investors in BTC but it does not guarantee for the high volatility of bitcoin all the time. I am just wondering though that there could be a manipulation since some.users had talk about market price correction so mening that there could be a manipulation for something that needs to be corrected. It is prettt shadt though to think that there could be no anomalies that will going happen.

you are looking at things with a very simplified view which is wrong. if price could easily change with some TA and bots then it would have been swinging wildly up and down instead of always going upwards.

i agree that there are times that we can't analyze certain rare movements but the number of times this happens is so little that you can't make it a rule. 90% of the times the reason for the rise of all is clear.

Truth be told, no one really knows the real and exact reason for every market movement. One can always only guess what the real reason for every movement but no one can really tell the exact reason for each movement. I believe that coincidence really plays a big role for major market movements, and the reaction of the market only follows only to be aligned with something *significant* happening at the same time.

I think when the price goes up there is lot of demand and FOMO to get more bitcoin, but i agree if there are sell a lot of coins then the price can go low, but over time will grow again.

Wise point created by the OP the fact remains that at a point the price of bitcoin can be influenced by factors most time unforeseen by many like you correctly stated the example about the whales and there activities.
So I have been longing to ask this question at to regards the OP post. Those this mean that bull market and bearish market are just figments of our own imagination since at any point the price can fluctuate

Each and every price move with bitcoin has got some reason behind, but it isn't easy to find the exact reason behind the fall or uptrend in the price of bitcoin. Even the experts find it hard to predict what exactly is the factor behind the market crash or boom. Most of the time whales were termed as the sole reason for all that happening in the market, but there is more other factors that make the change because in my opinion bitcoin is independent and can be manipulative by whales to some level.

Bitcoin goes up and down depending on demand and supply, if there is adoption, the price of bitcoin will go up and vice versa with a lot of sales, the price of bitcoin will drop.

This I think can be one good reason for a drop or rise in bitcoin price because either it will create fear or anxiety in the market.


I don't see how bots can be added as a possible factor to influence the market except you mean they will instantly be triggered and follow the whale's order.

Of course not every time but considering how 80% of the volume is fake its safe to assume that someone who is rich enough could move the market even if he doesnt want to. Clearly sometimes the price moves according to news or upcoming events but sometimes it also moves simply because of TA indicators or coincidences.

Do we need a reason for bitcoin to go up? I think we should all be glad that bitcoin price is going up meaning something good is happening with it. I don't think we can talk about whales manipulating it because the price has been going only up since March or so and it looks like it will continue this path for some more time.

If you are a trader, you need to understand the reason why the market is moving in either direction to take advantage of the market situation, the whales could manipulate the market, let us assume that a huge amount of coins are moved and if that happens people will come to a conclusion that someone is planning to dump the coins in the market which will take the price down and if that happens panics kicks in and the market starts going down. ;)

It may because of the characteristic of Bitcoin, it is volatile, decentralized.
So far, many people hold and trade BTC, moreover as what you said, whales hold the big amount of this and they can play the price of BTC easily. However, now there is a limited price that must be owned by this coin and it is good news. Many people play the price on the market in order to make some panic and to gain bigger profits of course.

using a bot is not a good idea for trading.  I prefer manual.  we can analyze every BTC price without a bot.  and sell BTC prices at any time.  whales with 1000 BTC strongly control the market.  they can make the market fall drastic.  but i believe.  today is not a good time to sell their assets.

Bitcoin prices rise or fall based on demand from investors. As the demand for owning Bitcoin increases, it will boost the market and increase the price of Bitcoin. Conversely, when investors have no desire to invest in Bitcoin will make the market unstable because of reduced liquidity makes Bitcoin prices fall.

Sure there is, it is always the demander that sets the new Bitcoin price for the market and everyone else.
If that would not been like that then price would not even move a cent.

When you go into a trading site that is the first thing you will see -> Set your sell and buy prices.
When you buy the next guy will be selling to you and he will set a buy price bigger than yours.

I guess you don't need to imagine as the last recent massive spike last April 2 was due to one big whale who traded long for US$100 million. And it was spread across three exchanges, to have this maximum impact. And we all know what happens next, it triggered the start of a bullish run up to this point.

But I don't think that whales really collude which each other to bring the price up (and down). Those whales really know how to play this game. But the question is how average Joes like you and me will react to this kind of news.

All of us knows that bitcoin is volatile but  there are other reason why bitcoin goes up and down,the rise and fall of bitcoin has a reason if there is a huge demand and positive news about Bitcoin it has a big impact of its price increase,and if many investors selling their bitcoin and some people spreading negative news about bitcoin it is a big impact that bitcoin price will fall.

I personally am not too confused about the reason Bitcoin prices go up or down, because it is very difficult to understand.  I often misinterpret this change in bitcoin prices, because of my mistakes I have lost a lot of my money when trading Bitcoin.  right now, what I'm doing is buying Bitcoin when the price goes down and doesn't sell it before the price rises.  And when I'm stuck buying a Bitcoin at a high price, then I will HOLD Bitcoin until the price rises again even though it is for a long time.  because I'm sure this Bitcoin has a good future, one day the price will definitely go to the moon.

Not eally a figment of our own imagination, bull market and bearish market. There is a reason why all of a sudden it becomes a bull market, something has to trigger it, regardless if its a whale who bought a lot of BTC or a whale sold BTC and others followed. Something has to trigger it for the market to follow.

They know how to play the game but not all whales are here trying to manipulate the price, some of them might be really long term holders and they might not know how to sell their bitcoin effectively.

Yes, we MUST know the reasons of Bitcoin growth of fall. If we really understand them, we will make better predictions about the price of this cryptocurrency. Therefore, the losses will be sufficiently reduced.

This is what I've been trying to point out.. o don't think there's any potential reason for the increase in demand of btc.. I think lots of users are just simply demanding it now than before..  that's all

Yes, when you get high demand, price will increase. Maybe investors are tired of see price down and they felt price should be going up. It always starts from one order to numerous orders before the triple effect.

Technical analysis, fundamental(news) analysis and Speculation are the three main factors in determining any financial instrument price direction. But for Bitcoin and all cryptocurrency , speculation is paramount. Traders care less of Technical and news release but alwasy speculate base on where the price is going.

a possible reason why BTC can experience increases and decreases is the total supply of your demand from many parties. many of their crypto players can play with prices and that is the reason why BTC prices can experience unexpected increases and decreases.

In addition to the point above, the cryptocurrency market is volatile and the increase and decrease we see, are also part of what the technology is all about. Have seen many cases when the price of Bitcoin will collapse and by the slightest way the demand will be minimize.   

Definitely, there is no way we can have reasons to associate it with everything that will happen with the market. Sometimes, what even speculates as the reason for a rise or fall in price might not necessarily be so

No ,there are so many reason why its moving most reason are the every individual who traded or who are trading them their bitcoin,the individual trader or investor has a big part of why the price of bitcoin is moving and also there are still more reason behind the moving price of it.

I am not agreeing with there is no reason for a bitcoin to went down or up, because there are lots of reasons and factors why a bitcoin bumped up or down. Example is the Law of supply and demand which is being used as a factor in different economic profession. The law of demand states that as the price of a good decreases, the quantity demanded of that good increases. In other words, the law of demand states that the demand curve, as a function of price and quantity, is always downward sloping.

If there were then people could just profit off of it right? I know what you mean though. I guess maybe some people know if they are around those who have lots of bitcoin like maybe big exchanges the people that work for them can predict a price movement when the exchange buys or sells bitcoin or fiat.

To be honest, there are actually rarely reasons why BTC prices may change, and the only times we can really see a correlation between prices and other stuff, would be when there are major events (take previous year's halfing for example).

A lot of changes in price are directly influenced by whales either buying or selling their BTC, as it's usually as of such high volume it's able to move the price by itself and also creates a domino effect where other investors will follow suit.

Nope, to this day, it is still impossible to predict BTC price movements.

It's basic demand and supply kinda thing. Only bitcoin is limited and not all people own it. Plus, FUDs, Analysis chart, famous person saying not to hold, etc are some of the reasons why the price changes at times. Bitcoin always has some kind of issue or news about it that affects it price, whether it be small or big news, which naturally affects the perception of bitcoin owners whcih then makes them sell the coin all of a sudden.

There’s always a reason why the sudden change or drop of price of Bitcoin and there are times it will take days, weeks or perhaps months before someone can offer an explanation why the price dropped. Remember the 2017 bull run that ended on the first month of 2018 or the last week of 2017, some offer an explanation that it was the stock market traders who bought Bitcoin on the last quarter of 2017 until the price spiked to ath and then they dumped. Question is do believe it or we just ignore that explanation and just take our profits.

Imagine while we are busy looking for reasons, others are already gaining profits because they were able to position themselves at the right time.

He's right, there isn't always a clear reason for the price increase or decline, it happens naturally in the market, at least for a mere $100-$500 in a day.
But for the price changes around $500-$1000 within a day or couple hours, there must be a reason why it happens obviously, just like one day after the Bakkt futures launch, bitcoin price fell more than $1,000 so people speculate because of that. Not a basic thing like demand and supply, because bitcoin price will always increase if that's the case.

That is because bitcoin's market is decentralized. No one controls it and no one regulates its price. That's why price changes are drastic and quick since it's determined by supply and demand. These whales can be compared to massive sell-offs. A whale selling is comparable to a group of people selling because of a recent negative news about crypto. Both can manipulate the market, traders and investors should always keep it in mind that bitcoin's risk is higher than regular stocks.

Basically, The price of a product is determined by its demand in the market and also the price goes ups and downs based on its supply to the market but the scenario of Bitcoin is totally different maybe, there are no specific reasons why the price always in a shaky position, When the price is high people is happy and on the other hand, when price is low then also a group of people is happy, though its a natural process but this market should be stable in some context. but according to my experience on this platform, I think a huge manipulation is the main reason for this unusual scene, not only that but also a large number of Bitcoin holders may turn this situation. It's not certain but you can't deny this reason anymore.

Price of bitcoin depends on its market demand and supply, it is depend to the traders. Anyone who have a larger number of bitcoin hodling will have the power to manipulate the market value. Whales sometimes manipulates the market, they will hodl bitcoin we may monitor it in the patterns that we can see in every exchange. Predicting reason why bitcoin pumps and dumps is too hard.

But as you say, the obvious reason is probably the manipulation of people holding large amounts of bitcoin, they are outside the market every day, observing people's needs for the market, and depending on the purpose, they will cause the price of bitcoin to rise or fall. And of course, they usually don't act too clearly, always giving bad or good information, always provide events to spark their scripts but sometimes, they don't have any other information, they act more clearly than ever when they pump or dump very clearly within minutes.

I agree that Bitcoin is heavily manipulated. Rather the whole cryptocurrency market is heavily manipulated because of the lack of monitoring authority. But there is always some reason that kick starts the fall which then gets heavily manipulated by the whales for some quick profits. Like recently, the not so expected response from the bakkt lead to the fall which then intensified because of the manipulation. But they too don't play badly with the market as they can't make retail traders leave the market because of the excessive losses.

Bitcoin is under the law of supply and demand, more demand = higher price and lower demand= lower price. The only difference why bitcoin price rise with some news is because of hype that creates demand in the market. More good news more demand higher price more bad news less demand more supply for sale so price drop would be expected.

That was in the year 2017, the peak season of Bitcoin and all crypto enthusiasts are happy at that time. Well, it's because of demand and supply. I think that's the main reason if there is a lot of supply the bitcoin will drop down but if the supply is insufficient and the demand is high then the price of it will definitely increase. Also, bitcoin price is volatile so it may rise or fall from time to time. Or sometimes whales manipulating may affect on Bitcoin price either up or went down.

There is a circulation and the market and those who play with the price make it moves. It is normal that the price fluctuates because that means that there is a change with the supply and demand of bitcoin. It is better than being stable which make long to gain profit.

The possibility of whales selling or dumping 1000BTC at a particular time in the open market is highly unlikely. There is an OTC market where big sales are taken place which is not reflected in the open market and we could expect these kind of whale manipulation when there is a rally and there is a big influence of institutional investors and they usually manipulate the market like you said.

I am sure that behind any movement there are certain factors and conditions. And so same are worth people which and create these factors and conditions. This market is very susceptible to manipulation, so look for reasons or invent them makes no sense. About them either tell in the upstream, either never about them not will know.

Yeah perfect demands is the cause of the bitcoin price up and down movement in the coin  market cap, that is called decentralized volatility I didn't beleive bitcoin is control of the  group of whales or people's their price value demands is the number one reason why bitcoin. Is moving up and down.

I agree that there may not be clear reason for pump or dump. Whales can come and randomly push up or down. But, in the end, we will figure out a way to find these whale moves and act before them. This is called TA, right? There is no need to bound these to some twitter posts or banning news. These are just random things.

Using technical analysis can help us to have a foresight where will be the price of the bitcoin will be. I am using technical analysis in cryptocurrency, forex trading and also in stock market, I can say that using TA is effective and it can help us to make better decisions.

Using such analysis methods is usually inaccurate because we know that the price of bitcoin is affected by requests and from bad news or good news about bitcoin on the internet, without analysis used if there is good news, the price of bitcoin can usually rise. so bitcoin doesn't always move from analytical techniques like that.

Understand that Crypto as a whole is a small, unregulated market and is both susceptible to sudden mood swings, and deliberately manipulated by big players called whales. The market doesn't represent the actual money invested in the market, the actual amount is much less rather than you think, depending on which estimate you use. bitcoin is a small market too, with a potentially enormous future. Until the market matures over the coming years, players can make a significant impact on the price when they sell or buy large amounts of bitcoin, as more investors enter the space and bitcoin becomes more distributed, this type of manipulation by big players should become less of an issue.

Agree, keep also in mind emotional factor which is not taken into consideration often.
Snowball effect because too many decided to sell on a whim could be most random price ride downhill ever.
Same thing happening in bubbles. More interest than usual getting media attention fueling price sky-rocketing.

Can't predict that.

In talking of market manipulation then of course it will be difficult to find of who did it because not only the big whales can be able to do the manipulation therefore the most valid and normal reason of why market movement is because of the supply and demand but its difficult to determined it too as we don't know of when people will buy and dump.

they will wonder if they dont know the reason but if they will only research and stay updated regularly they can see that there were actually a reason on why the price falls  . like recently price fall because of some events like bakkt   ,  binance restrictions , the hacking incidents and so on   .  price wont fall without any major reason   .   when common people sells , thats only minor and wont affect the price at all and you wont see a news  or any updates whenever they did it  .

No one is able to understand the entire factors and reasons for any market movements, you can have a list of predictions on why the market behaved a certain way, i will rather invest my money when the market is down and wait for the market to rally rather than rattling by brain over why and when the market will move in either direction.

Are you using a translator as my brain is scrambling to understand what you are trying to tell here. You can use your local language here in this forum to communicate.

That's a good example - there where probably many factors during that bull run-up to the 20,000 Priceline, and one of the most interesting things about this cryptocurrency is the random movements that happen, that we sometimes end up having no answer to. I've chalked up that event to just a snowball event started by a couple whales, and the prices just kept going up.

Agreed, whales are able to do a lot to the market, and often they are able to influence movements in the market due to the other people that follow suit. Once BTC becomes more developed, I think the whales will eventually get pushed out and not have as much control as before.

Not everyday there's a bakkt news, there is a crypto adoption and there is a hacking cases here in the world of crypto and yet the price still fluctuates drastically/slowly. How can you explain it? I believe that when the price changes it doesn't mean there's already a reason behind it. I agree on what Flor1982 said, most of the time supply & demand mainly implies.

Hmm, yes it could be an effective tool to predict the price, but you have to understand that there's what we call overall sentiments of the market. So most of the time the market is overwhelm with feelings and emotions that traders will suddenly jump and sell the push button without any logical explanations and it goes against the TA.

I also don't know for sure why bitcoin can go up or down but I've also heard of some people who have a long experience in bitcoin, they say that bitcoin is one of the coins with limited supplies so if for example many people are interested in bitcoin then most likely bitcoin will go up, and if the number of bitcoin fans there is a possibility that bitcoin can also go down.

coincidence on what OP?sorry i think i missed that part.but trading bots and Technical Analysis are mostly something that added on why dumping happens because panicking reacted too fast even in a simple matter of lowering the value,and sometimes market shaken
on that situation maybe they intended to do as well?i have got this feeling that some whales are conniving to manipulate the market by creating Fake Pump and Dump,this cant be made by single whale alone not unless he holds millions or hundred thousands of bitcoin

I don't think whale always the cause of drastical price changes on the bitcoin market, what I really believe is that prices go up due to market demand,
if prices fall more due to market trends and market confidence in bitcoin investments.
because the desire to buy or sell is also influenced by the daily cost needs of the investment owner, for example every users prefer to sell
for the cost of a year-end vacation trip. then at that time more people will sell than buy. CMIW

I bet these friends of yours all are super experienced traders who are experts at making money, huh?

Limited supply is a factor that helps scarcity, but for me it is more psychological right now than it really is anything else. But in the moving of price up/down in the short term, there really isn't much to help people predict.

I hope that you do a bit more research than listening to your friends, though.

the price of every thing in market is decide by the demand and supply law which give the reason why many buy high and and some buy low to sell high as regard the chance of missing out in the market profit

Bitcoin price is going to up or down will depend on the market and the traders. The news will not give effect too big if the traders are not react related to the news. But if the traders decide to buy bitcoin because of some news, then that will move the price to go up or down. We see many examples of this, and it's always happening in the market. So when the price is up or down, it's just because of the supply and demand that happen in the market, and yes, there is no clear reason for that.

Investors play the big role around this market, if most of them follow good news and start buying automatically the value will pumped up giving the chance for early investors to earned, if they've decided to dumped those cheap coins that they've got the value will fall in a short period of time. Again the cycle will continue, same deal with any trading business, demands and supplies affects the movements of this market.

there is no main reason that can justify why the price of bitcoin can go up and down in a short time other than the demand and supply of many people in the market, but if there is widespread bad news that can cause a lot of panic, of course ordinary traders can also take part so as to cause a decrease in market prices because they simultaneously feel panicked to immediately make a sale

Here is one of the simplest ways to understand why the price of Bitcoin goes up or down:

Imagine you want to buy lots of oranges (a scarce & special type of orange) which sell at  $1 per orange.
You get to the market and find people queueing to buy the oranges at $1 or alittle below/above $1. If you really need the orange badly, you can offer the sellers to buy them at $2—3% per orange. The seller will gladly sell at that price. Smart buyers could end up selling the oranges theybought already at cheap price and may even go as far as buying up all the special orange from other orange shops in market (arbitrage) to sell to you at $2-$3. The new price of one orange will become 2 or 3 dollars. Once you are done buying up all the oranges and the demand falls the next day, the price will fall also, probably back to 1 dollar per orange. It will remain 1 dollars until demand increases again .

Just like any other market, Crypto is also driven by supply and demand. All of a sudden, the supply increased. Hence, the price fall.

It's not all about the bots actually, there's more volume of real person trading compared to bots or limits set in the market or exchanges. But technically, if a person sees someone sells huge amount of bitcoin in the history, he/she will definitely follow to avoid being trapped in the market. Meaning to say that the popularity of an exchange where the selling transaction happen is also crucial.