Bitcoin Forum

Hey guys!
 
Short intro:

Thunderpick.com (http://Thunderpick.com) is a quite unique esports betting platform
that has launched in 2016 with a pari-mutuel (pool) betting.
Since then we’ve added (through in-house development or 3rd party providers)
various new products including Casino Games and Sports Betting.
Currently, we’re in the process of transition from pari-mutuel to fixed-odds betting as requested by our users.
 
The issue:

Among various payment methods we offer cryptocurrencies with the following set-up:
 
⬇️ Deposits:
BTC, LTC, ETH, BCH, XRP, ZEC, DASH, LSK, BTG, TRX with 0% deposit fee.

⬆️ Withdrawals:
BTC, LTC, ETH, BCH with 0.5% withdrawal fee for the first withdrawal each month and 1.5% for the next ones.
 
Deposits are converted from crypto to euro
(exactly to the Thunderpick’s currency which is pegged to the euro).
 
The question(s):

• What is your opinion on converting crypto deposits to FIAT?
• Is that fine with you as long as you like the site and its features or it’s a no go and we should start working on implementing crypto wallets?

 
All replies are welcome, as we want to learn about your preferences and deliver the best experience.

Cheers!

Its been a while since I traded game items or games themselves. Same with betting, I did bet a few dollars with Dota2's internal betting system and compendium back in early 2018.
I noticed that your site boasts of in-game betting, which games are supported? Dota2? CsGO? RUST?

Among the new ones are either of Overwatch or Pubg supported?

Let me give you two scenarios and let me know how your casino would do in those situations.

Scenario 1:
Date: 1 July 2019
Deposited: 0.5 bitcoin at 10k EUR/btc exchange rate
Converted value at my bankroll: 5k EUR
 
Date: 3 July 2019
Winning from games: 500 EUR
Current bankroll value: 5500 EUR
Bitcoin market price: 12k EUR
Converted to btc while withdrawing: 0.4583 btc

So in this scenario, I will be getting less numbers of bitcoin even after winning 500 EUR from the games. How do you handle this??

Now Scenario 2:
Date: 1 July 2019
Deposited: 0.5 bitcoin at 10k EUR/btc exchange rate
Converted value at my bankroll: 5k EUR
 
Date: 3 July 2019
Loss from games: 500 EUR
Current bankroll value: 4500 EUR
Bitcoin market price: 8k EUR
Converted to btc while withdrawing: 0.5625 btc

In this scenario, I am making losses but getting more bitcoins while withdrawing.

Please let me know how do you propose to handle such situations? I think it is wise to implement crypto wallets instead of converting cryptos to fiat. You will be significantly exposed in exchange rate fluctuation risk.

It is fine for me if I get to withdraw whenever I like in the crypto I deposited with no extra conversion fees.
As most of the people keep on comparing their coin holding with fiat, the deposit would just act as converting to a stablecoin and holding.
Anyone obsessed with getting a profit on increasing market could use other options.

Now I'm not sure but both these scenarios can be answered with 1 answer. What you deposit or withdraw is instantly pegged to USD value and not Bitcoins. They might have a third party implementation like shapeshift or changelly where they will insta convert deposits and withdrawals.

I would keep the balances in BTC if you can, as you generally don't want bettors to think "I would have been better off keeping my BTC instead of betting". Usually when I use a book that keeps USD/EUR balances (which is very rare), I would deposit, place the bet, and quickly withdraw if I won so that price volatility would hopefully have very little affect. With a very expensive 0.5%/1.5% withdraw fee (seriously, this doesn't really make any sense), I would almost certainly never play at your book. However, there's probably many people who do like keeping balances in fiat, so why not make it an option? Is there a specific reason you have to decide on one currency or the other?

Wondering, why you are converting currency to EUR since you are accepting different crypto-currency during deposit? I don't think this is wise decision. I think better make all withdrawal with crypto-currency. You might keep option for convert currency between crypto only, not Fiat or EUR. Yea, perhaps you need implement crypto wallet for that and I believe more players will encourage to play with your website if you implement that.
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-Stick with Crypto deposits and if there are conversions then it should be directly with other crypto coins as well.

-Its a no go for me,as a bettor if you do make a crypto deposit,I would always prefer on withdrawing the same thing and to think that
each conversion from fiat to crypto or crypto to fiat would have corresponding fees.

You have the full authority to automatically convert crypto deposits into fiat if that's what you want. It's okay for me as long as you can sustain those withdrawals in crypto but there might be some issue on your end if the price goes up. I think that will be the issue for your customers who really like withdrawing in crypto if it will also be affected if ever your system upgrades. But, if you can simply put that feature of letting your customers to decide if they would like to convert it to fiat, I think it's the best.

Not really mate! The concern is only with the fiat value pegging! Are you saying that once I deposit the bitcoins at 10k EUR exchange rate, the entire time it stays in the game will be valued at the same rate? Same thing will apply while withdrawing as well?? If yes, then have you considered the risk behind that?? People will start using this gambling website for hedging purpose then! It's unrealistic!

The most realistic way is to implement crypto wallet and consider crypto bets in crypto units only so that the exchange rate fluctuation doesn't come into play! That's the simplest and most realistic solution!

I really love the Esports industry and sometimes would really want to bet and support teams that I really like, And I would like For my deposit currency if I withdraw it will just retain the same currency as the currency I have deposited, So I would go with really not to convert, Why would you convert it with Euro and not the universal money that we are using "$" Is the fee's this way can get really small when you convert it to Euro? I don't think so, That is why I would really want to retain the same deposited currency when we decided to withdraw it.

think you should stick to the crypto without converting
you have a high enough withdrawal fee as it is , imagine  if there is a convert option at 1-3% ....
generally , players betting in cryptocurrencies prefer to keep it in crypto , so to them volatility is not a big issue
certainly , there are many that are withdrawing and converting , you should have the statistics and decide if it is really worth the hassle

When it comes to live in-play betting we currently offer markets for such games as CSGO, Dota 2, League of Legends, Overwatch, Call of Duty and Rainbow 6, but we're planning to add other games too. We also offer prematch betting on mentioned games and others, like SC2, Hearthstone, Rocket League, NBA 2K. PUBG and Fortnite only from time to time :)

Hey avikz!

Deposits and withdrawals work basically like buying and selling crypto on the exchange.
When you make a deposit we convert your crypto to euro at the current rate and other way around when you request a withdrawal.
Our balance is immune to the market fluctuations as all deposits are instantly converted to euro by the 3rd party payment provider.

It seems that most users would prefer crypto wallets, so we gonna definitely work on that. Thanks for the input!

Most bitcoin sportsbook and casinos doesn't have the option to convert your balance to fiat and because of that i'm used to betting with bitcoin than fiat. I prefer that you guys do the same or at least put up an option to bet directly with bitcoin. I don't hate that you convert the deposits but imo it's better if you guys add a crypto wallet. Also it's good that you're moving to fixed odds, when I first heard of thunderpick and trying it for the first time that's what I was expecting.  :)

Hey DarkStar,

I guess we could leave it this way and add other wallets so the users could choose if they want to keep their balance in crypto or rather in FIAT. It might be a little bit confusing from the UX perspective but can be done for sure. The fees are imposed on us by 3rd party payments providers that handle transactions. Hopefully we will bring them down to 0% in the future. Thanks for your opinion!

Thunderpick has evolved since the launch. It has started as pari-mutuel betting platform with FIAT payments. Because of the nature of pari-mutuel bets, where players bet against each other and the funds are transferred between them, it was more convenient to keep all balances in euro (or rather own currency pegged to the euro). Since the launch we've added more payment options and products as well as we've started to shift from pari-mutuel to fixed-odds betting, which makes it easier to add more wallets and balances.

I would definitly keep the balance in the currency it was deposited. Otherwise you will have to deal with lots of customers who are angry when they eg lose BTC in a bull market due to your conversion.

Personally for me it would be a no go to get my hardly earned BTC automatically converted into FIAT. I wouldnt use a site which does that!

Of the two scenarios there are advantages and disadvantages, just how you can choose good one and not be a problem for players. Because crypto prices are fluctuating so I think making Crypto wallet is the best choice so that players are not affected by changes in value.

For me in my opinion as a user if I want to deposit bitcoin or eth I want it to still remain btc/eth in my account balance since its bull market at the moment many users are taking risk their crypto to earn more money buy playing into different betting platforms like your site thunderpick, some users may not agree on your decision to convert it to fiat and might find another same site if you decided to use cryptocurrency as one of the payment methods you should understand the risk of using it.

If I am betting on crypto and depositing crypto then I want crypto back. Plus the fee's are horribly high as well. Even if I LOVED this website, I would look to change it right away, without a doubt. I mean first of all why would you have a % based withdrawal fee, it is never the % based its always depending on the block and how high the fee's are, there is usually a set price like 0.0005 or whatever (that number can change, I just made it up) and if you withdraw a million dollars you have to pay 1.5% of it back to casino for withdrawal? That is no bueno for me man.

Having euro payments sent plus that % based withdrawals equals me leaving forever and never playing again, I would highly suggest you to change it as fast as possible or you will soon have no players left.

You could put a toggle when you deposit to have either BTC deposited (probably in mBTC units for easier use) or EUR deposited, and just don't allow it to be changed in the future. That way players can pick what they want when they create their account, and there's no UX confusion from people accidentally switching to the wrong currency for example. I don't think 0% fees are sustainable (depending on withdraw size), so maybe try to have just the transaction fee charged.

That's exactly what gambling sites end up being for most crypto traders. I will not name any sites or any particular person or website with a similar setup but you can easily find many reputed ones if you google around. And this ends up benefiting exchanges more than the players tbh.

It would be a positive for the adoption of cryptocurrency of industries hold Bitcoin as it is when it us giving in exchange for a service without directly converting to fiat.
Also the functionality of the website should be friendly to gamblers, and with the high volatility of Bitcoin (as well as other currencies) gamblers can easily lose out during conversion, in addition to fees incurred.

I also prefer withdrawing/depositing cryptocurrency from the site and you can also have a feature to withdraw/deposit fiat to crypto. Anyway, using crypto for withdrawing/depositing from your site would an impression to gamblers because of what you are or you can have both feature

On most cases where there aren't too much gamblers that do actively making such conversions.It may sounds good if that feature is there
but its not really that necessary or needed because once gamblers do make deposit then they do eventually prefer on using it up until in the end
neither they would lost it all or make some winning.About volatility then they are pretty much aware on that one.

I think converting crypto deposits to fiat is a good idea as long as your goal in earning and winning crypto is for your income but if you are in gaming and gambling objective it is not a good idea and decision. On my own opinion this is good project wayback on 2016 because it serves as an double purpose as extra income and gaming entertainment.

Actually, that is the preference of most players even me as well.
If you are sending your crypto to that website, you are expecting to receive your crypto after you've done your game.
But if there are players that opted for fiat instead, then, maybe the site can create an option for that.
But it should not be a compulsory that once you deposited your crypto, it will be converted to fiat once credited to your account.

Conversion to fiat currencies is OK as long as there is demand for it.
What would the crypto wallet be meant for? For storing coins on the gambling site?  Isn't that a  risky thing to do? I think you should just allow people to withdraw their coins when they need to.

There is always a demand as long as bitcoin pricre is keeping on bullish trend, if you compare to past few years ago of course bitcoin is still nothing but until thos day, it has really been a good thing to convert it. As long as you can get enough money you may be able to withdraw them. By storing your coin into wallet, does it meant to invest on their site? If there is a good site to invest why not take this chance then? I believe there are some sites that pretty well know for their investment as well

It does really sound like a great idea to be able to keep your balance in either fiat or USD but that puts you at a big risk,,, because it is not just the player who is gambling for or against fiat but the house. I would say, always keep the balance in the currency the players deposit.

If the players put in BTC, and they want to convert to USD then they have to sell to you at a fee that is the only way so you also keep it liquid.

Don't see any issue here. It all comes down to personal preferences at the end of the day and I personally would like such an option. This could please many people which is why I would gladly welcome this change.

I would not mind withdrawing my balance even if I had to incur certain fee percentages since I have gotten used to it due to the volatility of this market. Cannot expect fees to go down to something like zero people.

I wouldn't mind having an "option" of receiving fiat, that is up to people to decide and if you can have a feature like that and if people prefers to use it then you can keep using it, there is nothing that would stop you. However it should not come with a cost of removing other options, in crypto if you give people a right to do something and take it away from them after a while you should know that you will lose a lot of customers.

This is not just about this issue, it happens in everything, like if you are an exchange that removes one thing then you will lose customers, if you are a cloud mining and remove one thing you will lose customers, if you are a wallet website and remove.. you got the point. So I would suggest sure add the fiat thing but also keep the crypto as well.

Does anyone know why Thunderpick is not being more active here in Bitcointalk forum since 2019?
Looks like they are offering some nice welcome bonuses but I can't confirm how legit and trusted they are.
They have some strange converting Bitcoins to their own coins pegged to fiat, and I can't find any information about kyc verification on their website.
Anyone knows more?

maybe the lack of activity on their thread might be the reason why they stopped being active in the forum.

there are some reviews about their website and I also found a scam accusation on reddit about their website but the accusation has no evidence(link below). in the end, I would still have no idea if they are legit or not. also, they have atwitter account https://twitter.com/thunderpickco?lang=en might help you decide whether they are legit or not.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Thunderpick/comments/hds4q5/thunderpick_is_scam/


https://i.imgur.com/rDkd6cU.jpg

Implementing crypto wallets should be useful because if our deposits will be converted into fiats there is a big possibility that our cashin will either
increase or decrease base on your conversion. The same with other site, it will be good if our deposits will remain as it is like if we will use Eth to gamble
then you should let us use it and not fiat like Euro.

Though this is only my opinion as I don't like my deposits to be converted to fiat, I am not so sure if many are the same with me but I hope that my idea will
help you to decide whether you are going to convert or not to convert the deposits.

They might be inactive into this forum but you can follow up their Twitter account which is active on making out some updates and it has 13.4k followers atm.
https://twitter.com/thunderpickco

Its been mentioned above for some scam accusations? So its better to be careful.
When they do make out conversions then expect for such decrease in value yet that would really be based up in fiat value.
Mostly these kind of sites do really ask out for some KYC.