Bitcoin Forum

The main response people give me is that the technology doesn't exist to make a fully functional DEX, that atomic swap are too slow. It was never true and now that Ren VM has a prototype for running decentralized server functions to process the functions of the exchange it definitely isn't true. If bitcoin can use hash to verfiy the network, then hashing power can be used to run distributed servers and virtual machines as a virtual network, along with atomic swaps and regular distributed liquidity pools.

Centralized exchanges are quite literally evil. They are a failure point for cryptocurrency. If everyone has to do KYC and store their funds with state and corporate servers and give away their financial information to a financial system that is already responsible for predatory finance capitalism, then the very purpose of bitcoin has failed.

Without a working exchange that is immutable you do not have immutable money.

If the *exchange* is not immutable, then your *money* is not immutable.

Start building immutable exchange software, and for the love of god don't put your name or address on it. Do what Satoshi did.

hell mate i waited for guys like you.....we must get rid of centralized exchanges how much account locked up with huge money inside....it will chnage soon yet how much horrible stories out there

bisq exchange grow nice and we have bots that spread bots all over the place

I agree with most of his writing. However, we are obliged to use CEXs within the current system. For example, in my country, I can only buy FIAT to crypto only if I make KYC. Although stable DEX in this environment does not mean much to me. Because you'll have to use CEX to convert that crypto money back into FIAT.

why with bisq you can convert for now soon you dont need to conevrt ....passion its going to bomb soon

Once I watched a documentary and the journalist said "Follow the money. It's amazing how many things it can explain". People only understand when you hit their money anyway so when they will realize that the things aren't different with CEXs they will start to look at the DEXs.
Wait for 10 years you will the same people telling how they regret to have used CEXs all these years.

no you are wrong mate

i didnt see any body want to go back to centralized tech share info from decentrliazed tech,

decentralized exchanges soon will bomb because we use mass botting to spread this over the internet,

for the only the smartest use decentralized exchanges, it like the beginning of bitcoin was there was the smartest there only until it explode.


you know what is fucking decentrlized exchange hell, its real freedom ...no body can lock your money, its much more secure relative* to centralized tech....


peer to peer mixed with disturbed tech its the last station in tech in some sort of level and i far from kidding,

It seems to me that we need both decentralized and centralized exchanges. Each of them has its pros and cons. In centralized exchange there is some security. But decentralized exchanges more meet the requirements of anonymity. Thus, everyone chooses for himself what exchange to use.

There's still a way to exchange in private without the use of exchanges but people are lazy and they want to do everything fast and without moving a finger. Going to ATM is already a pain and it doesn't matter that cash transactions are anonymous they prefer to use the bank because this way they can do it lying in bed and watching TV.

This is the problem of our society. We are sacrificing our rights and our privacy for convenience.

its only  the beginning of decentralized tech soon it will bomb dont worry

in these decentralized exchanges is it possible to buy bitcoin with debit card?

Are banks going to allow their customers to buy  coins in decentralized exchange?

This is the point. Eventually all centralized exchanges will have to be licensed for all banks to do business with these exchanges, but that will not be a bad thing. on the contrary it will be very good. Imagine that if an exchange is licensed, it is inspected by the government then this exchange will have credibility to partner with many banks and allow many people buy cryptos using their bank accounts and this exchange will provide good services

The fiat offramps aren't very successful. They are easy to fool with mixing technology. Monero and coinjoin basically break an destroy chain analysis tech, and DEX like kyber and atomic swap are making it even easier. The only issue are American exchange like Gemini.

We are headed towards an economy where people take crypto directly. The ATM's and various websites accepting payments for goods cannot sit there and ask for an IRS audit of how the money came to be, it's impractical and won't gain traction in legislation, which means as long as you can defeat chain analysis you can spend bitcoin for good and services, and it's even easier outside the united states.

The next step that FATF is using is something cyphertrace has put out which will absolutely destroy bitcoin's immutabilty, combining proprietary backdoor wallets with smart contract attributed kyc information. It will destroy the fungibility and immutability of the bitcoin payment ecosystem and allow the government to abuse you just like it does with fiat.

People are going to have to wake up and realize they have to abandon banks and centralized exchanges if they want to maintain political freedom in a free world.

It is easy to live on crypto now and it's gonna get easier. Very little cash is needed, very little fiat, only for rent and car payments, and work is being done to create escrow and realty services to allow land to be bought with crypto. The issue is not that a realty company would want tax information, but rather the ability of banks and exchanges to reject your money or to seize it.

As land lords and larger asset saler begin to take strictly crypto it will largely pull the rug out on banks and paypal esque institutions. Regulatory arbitrage caused by crypto will simply pull the rug on American overreach.

Ultimately regular bonds and stocks and commodities will become tokenized, and pulled onto the blockchain, the clearinghouse functions of states will be taken away, the capital flow into securities will pick crypto over fiat. All states will suffer capital flight into crypto.

The cold hard reality is this was all meant to take the power away from states to control their citizens money.

Centralized exchanges to me are the biggest single source of failure in cryptocurrency, either for the obvious disadvantage of entrusting your anonymity to a third-party (and thus to the government) or for the huge inherent risk of such exchange being a subject of a crypto heist or hack. We need to gradually migrate to decentralized exchanges, thats the future of crypto

Centralised exchanges provide a service which literally prop up the price of Bitcoin (and other key cryptos) that most hold so dear.

Of course we must sacrifice varying degrees of anonymity to utilise their services, but each to their own...

DEX is still lacking in terms of liquidity though, without centralisation there would be lacking in terms the PR, marketing activities and incentives systems to keep interest in place, still these pitfalls can be improved overtime on existing DEX like waves and stellar onces, centralised business well, you are complied with laws so does your money

Decentralized exchanges are always preferable than centralized ones. I always choose the hassle-free option. KYC is a big hassle for me. However, as of this point in time, there are both advantages and disadvantages with DEX. People here are making mention of low liquidity in DEX. That is one. Another huge problem is the lack fiat/card-to-crypto option. That is another huge stumbling block for DEX.

This. People routinely pay for convenience, and this case is no different. I'm sure there will always be a market for decentralized exchanges, but until they're better in every way than their centralized counterparts, they will never get the lion's share.

If the mainstream cared about that much about decentralization, privacy, etc., they'd be hopping on the Bitcoin train by now. The harsh reality is that not many see the importance behind them.

Indeed, there's no much trust on DEX because of low volume on trades so many investors wants a centralized exchange which provides good services. Even if Binance is a centralized exchange I feel the security on that exchange and I can't sacrifice my money putting on a Decentralized exchange which are not working well in the past months.

I share your opinion, the problem of the centralized Exchange is that they affect an essential point of the spirit of the cryptocurrency and it is the intermediation, in addition there are considerable risks of losing the investment if these sites are attacked by Hackers. Let's see how the market is behaving in the years to come.

actually the main reason that i have seen is lack of popularity of decentralized exchanges plus not having same features. traders, specially those who are doing day trading and also the whales, will require high liquidity and certain features to communicate fast with an order book and be able to buy and sell within seconds. it is not yet possible with any of the DEXs. and since they remain less popular their volume is going to remain low so nobody goes there so they remain unpopular (like a circular cause and effect!)

so the alternative is to stick to the centralized ones and accept their evil because of the convenience that usage of them gives traders.

And what I'm saying is that technology is here now. Look at Ren VM, Zelnode.

The key to server processing for order matching and liquidity aggregation are blockchain node based virtual machines made up by many distributed computation power and cross chain liquidity features being formed by Ren and Komodo/Antara.

Even without these there are three margin based DAPP, Nuo, ZBX, and DYDX. Kyber network already has a good precedent for liquidity. 

You only need one. There's one coming out soon called AtomicDEX, It's still in beta. I have signed up.. Waiting to get accepted to try it out. What's cool is you can do Atomic swaps on your phone.

https://www.b0x.network

https://dydx.exchange

ethfinex.com

The facts is most DEX platforms are simply too difficult to use and the majority of Bitcoin users could care less about immutability.  ::) When I ask people why they want to use Bitcoin, most responses comes down to speculation and profit and not what freedom this technology would offer them. <They live in 1st world countries where they are slaves to the Fiat way of doing things>  :(

I have always criticized centralized exchanges in the past, because they rape the building blocks of Bitcoin, but I also saw how adoption was boosted with the introduction of user-friendly centralized exchanges.  :P

Same reason why I am asking most of the time ,Centralized exchange has done a lot and more cryptonians suffers from locking account and until now the issues wasn’t resolved

I don’t support centralization and for that I hate centralize exchanges.if we don’t use them for sure they will gone so better lets stand  together against them

This is not very evident at the moment. I seldom see anyone who is constantly trading or using a DEX platform. Most traders flock in on popular centralized exchanges mostly because of convenience and volume. Unless there is an upgrade in Dex UI and volume, we will not see traders patronizing dex.

This can also be one reason dex is not popular. Most traders care only for profit, not about bitcoin itself. So, they will not care if the exchange contradicts the basics of bitcoin. They only see that it caters to their needs, fast and have volume.

You say that the biggest disadvantage of centralized exchanges are the KYC, I dont . If there will be no KYC at centralized exchanges there will be very hard legislation on every user.

In any case I think that centralized exchanges are bad for other reasons - fake volume and hacks.

Yes they are. Unfortunately the vast majority of people go by convenience over safety.
Centralized exchanges are easy to use, they are "established"; unless there's something greatly better, they will stick to them.

Also don't forget about those that keep some bots and buy and sell and buy and sell all day long small amounts for small gains, which, at the end, add up. This is possible because of the off-chain exchanges where they pay some small fee based on the volume, as opposite of DEX where I guess that they'd have to pay the tx fee for each and every transaction (or at least only half of them - either the sell, either the buy). I used only one decentralized exchange, long ago and not for Bitcoin, so I may not be 100% accurate in this, but the idea stands.

I can agree with your perspective but in current environment it's quite impossible for most people to escape centralized exchange. Even if you can ignore slow process time, you still need to convert your crypto to fiat and vice versa since you can't do it through dex. On top of that people prefer things that is easy to use and cex have been here for a long time which means people will have to give up their old ways which most people aren't willing to do.

i have a great time with decentralized exchanges (in particular with forkdelta), they can seem cumbersome to use but you just have to get carried away, i use little centralized exchanges just to go out in fiat...

If you want ETH and ERC20 Tokens then there are many pseudo decentralized exchanges for you!

But if you are a COIN holder, not a Token holder then you have some ability to empower yourself with peer to peer possibilities.

Use something like Blocknet DX

If I meet you here and you want an ALT Coin that I have and you have and ALT Coin I want(or you can trade bitcoin or litecoin)

We totally don't even need to trust each other using Blocknet DX - NO ESCROW is needed for OTC trades.

You are completely protected with the Blocknet DX and related protocols Xbridge.


You want QTUM and I have QTUM, I want DASH and you have DASH - we can trade!

Together!

Be your own exchange - and you don't need to KYC anyone  ;D

Technology DOES exist, it only needs to be fixed so it can be used in more countries (their bundled tor has problems in countries with tor banned):

I could have used DEX if there is a service in my country that convert Fiat to cryptocurrency or vice versa and deposit it to my bank.  the fact is there is none that i known.  Remember this world is not ruled by bitcoin but rather by centralized financial institution, Bitcoin is just taking part of the pie, though I hope little by little this whole pie will be consumed by cryptocurrency alone.  Though I like the thoughts of not going for KYC and any other thing that this centralized exchanges do, but let us be realistic for now.  There is no perfect DEX since DEX is also a platform that is created by a certain company or group.

I see nothing wrong with centralized exchange. Demanding for your kyc is just to know who you are and nothing much about it. Pioneer to that there are some countries who are not in support of bitcoin. Since its delivering what its been ask to do,we can trust and rely on it.

There are good working DEX and the oldest we know had been working in the past like its been there for the use of public. Dan Larimer's Bitshares were there before the Ether dexs. Ether and Forkdelta is also up and running for awhile, all their volume combined are just not enough though. Convincing people to try them will only work if their tokens are only listed to these DEX.

How with DEX when BTC is always a concern to awaken all ambitions and towards autonomy of people. It is possible to count on fingers the DEX with Bitcoin. Obviously not. CEX may be a concern for the purge of the power of money in the crypto world. But are you waiting for something or go right away with CEX? :o

In my personal view I would start to say that we need the decentralized and centralised exchange for more and efficient way to communicate to the entire system. We all know the important of a decentralized exchanges and should not forget that the centralise exchange too play a significant role too. I would say let we keep it balance because we new needed the tow to work together.

you so fucking wrong its like saying we need balance between decentralized peer to peer file sharing with centralized sharing, maybe you dont know the difference ....

because in everything that centralized everybody connect to the main servers without be depending on each other, which mean hackers can hack the main servers and have access to all the computers that connected to the main servers.

you just uneducated and i know this by your answer, because in centralized exchange they can lock your funds and do with this whatever they want, compare to centralized exchange where everything is in your control,

the nature it self decentralized mixed with distributed mechanism.

the help you get the idea....

before peer to peer file sharing(decentralized tech) there was centralized tech which mean there are few main servers and all the computers download from this main servers without be depending on each other mp3,music,software,movies and other....yet this time the internet not was so developed and traffic which mean if the same centralized tech was exist today , this main servers need to be so fycking powerful to hold all this computers , and the security level need to be top notch because the right worm in the main servers and you have access to all this computers which download stuff....

do you get it,

then peer to peer file sharing burn which called decentralized tech and here you dont have main servers , the servers are private computers , which mean for example,
 is a different way to distribute MP3,movies,software, files. Instead of storing this info on a central computer, the songs live on users' machines.

its million times more harder for hackers to take control over this computers compare to centralized tech.

and another reason peer to peer tech burn its because governments pretty fast locate main servers and shut them down while in peer to peer tech which mean decentralized , the governments need to shut down more then 500 million private computers.

bitcoin its peer to peer money.

now apply here all what you read and its the same with exchanges...and before you post read other answers as it already mention

Well then, you are missing the critical point of Bitcoin. We aren't demanding financial privacy, instead, we should think financial privacy as a necessity and an essential thing, that we must ought to protect it. For whatever reason, the government couldn't and should not simply have a right to monitor all of our financial activity. Not to mention in the name of preventing money laundering, tax evasion, and financing of terrorism.

Indeed centralization is weakness, this also applies to those altcoins with few nodes and a large central authority with the power to even undo transactions, which is getting back to the fiat system that led the world to the economic cycles of bubbles and pops, making everyone get in debt, etc (all the Chicago dogma).

With exchange it is the same thing. Unfortunately when the exchange is touching fiat, that belongs a central authority, and its that authority that enforces its rules. For pure crypto coin exchanging you can do decentralized exchanging already.

This take us back to the main issue, which is why people isn't getting paid and pay other with crypto. The only way to cut dependency on fiat is to stop using it altogether. Exchanges exist because people insist in exchanging fiat to and from crypto.

in some sort of level i loved your answer,,,

Honestly the era and regime of centralized exchanges is gradually coming to an end the more people realized the effectiveness of decentralized exchanges the more they would horribly dump them for CEXs obviously people are getting wise-up and trying to keep and protect their identities KYC in the name CEX and banking, obviously the of cryptos had revolutionized the CEX system and encourages anonymous means or method of transactions to the satisfaction of its teeming users.

It would be still a hard thing to switch off yet CEX are more rampant on new peoples eyes than seeing those Dex ones.Just take a look on the rankings or exchange that being
always preferred or mentioned.?Most of them are centralized ones, sad to say the truth but these Cex is more preferable or convenient to use up specially on making crypto to fiat or fiat to crypto transactions.It does make contrary on the true essence of crypto but we are seeing the current reality.

True, there aren't too many DEXs that can be relied upon to be the perfect alternative to centralized exchanges, so for now the shine still remains with the CEX.

And the worst part about a DEX is that its limited to a specific blockchain which doesn't allow for easy trade to get a different crypto coin...guess too many limitations to be used.

CEX I think isn't glorified. Its just that for anyone who wanna trade, they are best to go to CEX.

I for once wanted to trade on DEX but if my orders are not filled after few days, its almost the same thing as holding the coin in my personal wallet rather than sending it on DEX. If would be great holding it if the price is growing if not then I'd rather be going to CEX. I'm not glorifying them but its just the truth not a single DEX were able to provide liquidity even today. If there is we could have been doing a lot IEO on DEX by now.

that's the point! many in crypto don't give a f** about this. they don't understand why bitcoin was created, believe in meritocracy (and heredity at the same time lol) and have any billionaire as idol.

Very few people care about having a decentralized exchagnes.  Over 99 percent of people are perfectly fine with using credit cards and other centralized services.  There is very little money to even be made off a decentralized exchange.

yes but how many DEX have large volumes at the moment ?.
everyone does not like centralized exchange. but there has not been a decentralized exchange that can support all crypto coins. the length of the transaction, makes people not like using DEX. so first make DEX that can solve this basic problem. only then can we leave the centralized exchange.

there is holochain for liquidity, and now there will be lightning swap, komodo antara cross chain liquidity and interoperatbility protocols using atomic swaps, ren vm can acheive this, as can stacknet, as can blocknet, the technology for DEX liquidity is being built now

The poorly designed ones are like this. Have you given Block DX (powered by Blocknet Protocol) a try? It can trade over 100 different assets from different blockchains and trades are independent of the Blocknet blockchain. Trade time is also independent of the blockchain's block time, but trade finality is still reached on that blockchain. Unlike other suggestions here such a Bitshares, Block DX doesn't use proxy tokens or colored coins. The native assets are traded and funds remain in the user's control throughout the entire process of the trade. Unlike Komodo, you can use your own Qt wallet for verification checks instead Electrum servers. Every component of the exchange is decentralized, including capital storage (your own wallet), order books (compiled locally), order matching (p2p), and settlement (atomic swaps).

You can see a list of compatible assets for trading here:
https://docs.blocknet.co/blockdx/listings/#listed-digital-assets

I couldn't agree more, which is why I'm happy to be part of the Blocknet community. All these projects are using "dex" and "atomic swaps" as marketing terms and still have centralized components. They have done a huge disservice to the ecosystem by confusing people about what true decentralization is. Then when you bring up a project like Blocknet, they say why is that needed, when project XYZ already provides a DEX. Meanwhile what they don't know is project XYZ only has one component of the exchange decentralized, such as settlement using atomic swaps, and has no idea that the exchange is custodial or uses servers for order books and order matching. So now you have great projects fighting the good fight that are being overlooked due to cheap imitations misinforming users.

This is why it's important for the team behind the project to know what they're doing. Blocknet for instance has been around since 2014 and has spent years on research on how to properly and securely have decentralized trading. There's MANY verification checks in place as well as failsafes. The funds stay in your control throughout the duration of the exchange as well.

I agred with your vision "satochi vision"

We need a real decentralized exchange with good platform "good technology"