Bitcoin Forum

Question:

What is the difference between BCT users who argue with technical trolls

and

"astro-turfing" users who are actually working with the trolls to make it appear like there's still a legitimate argument taking place



Example: Segwit thread on Discussion sub (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5171442.0)


Answer:

Not much

People have the right to have their own opinions on technical matters. Just because you believe something is the best way to achieve something doesn’t mean that someone who disagrees with you wrong. You should defend your viewpoint/stance and others who are looking can come to their own conclusions.

this is really a rhetorical point I'm making, but maybe it will spark a discussion


but certain users should be singled out for this behaviour, notably:


@WindFURY (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=844914)

@DooMAD (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=175361)

@ETFBitcoin (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=359716)

@pooya87 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=379147)

(perhaps other notorious users have been left out, I'll add later if I think of them)



So, would you like to explain your own personal answers to this question?

Heh, I gracefully avoided that thread, exactly because I was expecting yet another "WindFury vs Franky1 show" that will bring nothing new.

what's with the "should" part?

I am defending my stance so that others can come to their own conclusions: in this thread, that you posted in ???

It is very difficult to say with certainty that someone is a “troll” in the technical section. If someone is making a point, and it hasn’t been refuted, their point should be refuted. I don’t think there is a need to beat a dead horse so to speak if they don’t agree after having their points refuted.

Frankly, I don’t think the “trolls” you are referring to are very convincing, nor do they make strong points.

I'm a "vigilance over complacency" kind of guy and can't see how you win a debate by only letting the opponent speak, which they will clearly continue doing.  Who knows?  Maybe they do genuinely believe what they're saying.  It's really difficult to tell.  But I'm going to err on the side of caution and presume it's malicious (as I can understand you are doing in this topic).  It looks to me like an ongoing propaganda campaign by determined disinformation agents.  I just don't see how ignoring the problem and allowing the less experienced forum denizens to be mislead helps anything.  False narratives need to be challenged.

@DooMAD


don't you think that when your account is 99% arguing with trolls, it makes you look like a fake?

i.e. you're only here to keep the trolling alive, not to stop it?




edit: "sometimes, the only winning move is not to play"

(for the record, pooya87 and ETFBitcoin actually do make contributions to the forum in addition to entertaining trolls)

I'm actually a fan of these users. I think WindFURY honestly enjoys provoking anti-Core people, and I enjoy watching him. Let's face it: I have to pick the word "Core" there because that's the part about bitcoin that infuriates their adversaries, like franky1 and khaos77, the most. DooMAD seems honest to me about his intentions and beliefs. I don't think they are part of some plot to keep the debate alive, they just enjoy the sparring.


This guy more comes across as an average user who channels his liferage through the forum. I think he's harmless.

we could call them troll orgies, or maybe troll-bukkake? :D


In this thread, Anonymint & Zin-Zang take a shit in WindFURY's mouth, WINDFury burps and says 'thankyou, more please!!!' (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5171442.0)

that's exactly what an astro-turfer would say! :D



indeed, you contribute all over the forum. one could make the argument that I am a former astro-turfer/troll-bukkaker covering my tracks, as I used to engage trolls too much, if only to identify them as such


@WindFURY and @DooMAD exist seemingly only to talk to the trolls though. They barely make any other posts.

Everyone has pros and cons, in taking a different view, there is no one to obstruct the exercise of personal rights.
One thing that you need to learn.
All you can do is accept mooting or articulating, their character for debate, as a Troll.
I have often seen many troll debates on topics in this forum.


Many people say debate, pleasure in discussion for a long time, but most people do it,
I'm sure many are wrong from your point of view "clearly" but have to think before you issue a Troll card.

i don't think leaving trolls alone to spread their misleading nonsense without at least one response is such a good idea, specially when their comments are reported they aren't being removed by mods, or maybe they are in that grey area where you can't just brand them as trolls.
but at the same time feeding the trolls is not a good idea either. they have a way of sucking you into a long discussion without any conclusions.

maybe a balance must be reached, where you don't get sucked in while still not letting them mislead.

Carlton, https://whowhatwhy.org/2016/01/27/disinformation-part-1-how-trolls-control-an-internet-forum/

Go to "forum sliding" and "inoculating the public against the truth".

I believe everyone who knows more than me about Bitcoin should join in, and spread as much correct information as possible in the forum.


::)

Is that what you resort to to make people believe you?


Never? Lightning is an IOU system? You want me to believe that? Of course I will keep debating you.


Anonymint and Zin-Zang?

you've misunderstood the game


I once discovered that a troll (who you regularly engage) was posting for over 20 hours straight. That means a minimum of 2 people both have the login for that account, and must coordinate their responses in order that they do not contradict themselves when speaking as the single character they pretend to be


look at it another way

if you have good knowledge of Bitcoin, what is the most effective use of it?




you've likely spoken to them both, but they frequently register new usernames to troll BCT with

(khao77 is very likely Zin-Zang, aliashraf is very likely Anonymint)

:D You know that this thread will also become one of those, right? :D


This is an interesting info I've missed. Thanks for that.

Khaos77 is 100% Zin-Zang.  Not a doubt in my mind.  I'm curious about your thought that aliashraf is Anonymint, though.  I didn't get that impression, although I can see some similarities.

I'm also interested in where the banned accounts RNC (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1801074) and anti-cen (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1423316) fit into the equation and whether those are more Zin-Zang/Khaos77 accounts.

• similarities in style/tone/presentation
• similraties in the areas of knowledge used
• appeared very shortly after Anonymint was perma-banned
• defends Anonymint and petitions revocation of perma-ban

not definitive, but for all intents and purposes, Aliashraf plays the role of Anonymint's reincarnation whether it really is him evading his ban or not.



I expect Aliashraf will get heavily involved in trolling:

• BIP-schnorr
• BIP-taproot
• sighash noinput

which is exactly what you could expect Anonymint/dinofelis/TPTB_need_war/trainscarwreck/Sheldon Moore MCMXCIIII to also get involved (plus new Anonymint alts, of course). Those users, or some of them, will return to get in on the tag-team bukkake, but they are probably all controlled by Anonymint



yeah, those are fairly obvious attempts to either evade the Zin Zang ban, or copy the posting style. don't understand why khak77 hasn't been banned yet, tbh

As far as I was aware, the Zin-Zang account wasn't actually banned.  They just had a shit-fit over all the negative feedback people left and obviously wanted to wipe the slate clean.  I can't be bothered to look up the dates, but the Khaos77 account was definitely registered shortly before the Zin-Zang account made a post declaring they were leaving the forum and not coming back.

didn't anti-cen and RNC appear between the Zin Zang quitting/ban and the start of Khao77?


@Khak77 can you remember the details? :D

He also came to anonymint's defense on the regular:

nice work, added to original list 8)

I actually thought they were Bitcoin Cash hodlers from /r/btc. Haha. Or maybe they are big blockers?

I'll "try my best" to ignore them, although I will miss it. Annoying them has been so much fun. 8)

• Khak77 _never_ posts in this Meta sub board
• despite that, Khao77 found this thread very quickly

interesting, eh?

What a coincidence: your first post was on the day of his last.

Perhaps you wanted to start over with a fresh reputation; now that this one is starting to sink, you should probably consider starting over again.

@nutildah (or anyone else)


were there ever any instances of Aliashraf defending/tag-teaming with other suspected Anonymint alts (i.e. dinofelis/TPTB_need_war/trainscarwreck etc)

Perhaps, but I don't that's necessary here. Your first post was 32 minutes after his self-declared "last post." Then he took a break until Feb 2nd, during which time you wrote 42 posts. Then you started posting again as Khaos77 on Feb 3rd.

Some of your other similarities (outside of subject matter) include:

-excessive use of emojis, especially when finishing a post
-you both structure your paragraphs in an odd format that doesn't utilize the full width of the text field
-both consistently have improper use of punctuation marks, or lack of punctuation where appropriate
-English is a second (or third) language

The final kicker is you are both fanatics of a virtually unknown microcap coin called ZEIT.



ZEIT is currently ranked #1415 on CMC. What are the odds that you're not the same person? I'd say extremely slim.


I'll give it a look over.

Of course not. CB is British whereas Gmax is American. Adding your sunglasses emoji to the end of your comment reminds me of this post you once wrote in the Bcash thread:



Factually there is no center of the universe.


No need for all that as I'm 99% certain you are the same people.

- invade same subject threads with same trolling tactics
- same writing style
- same usage of emojis
- both way into extremely obscure shitcoin

Frankly you're too boring to care any more about.

Doomad you find it 'difficult to tell' you PRESUME its malicious and it looks to you to be propaganda.. but your attitude and presumptions just show you have not done the research to actually know. instead you just jump on the defense wagon of devs' without checking what they got up to.

if you really want to rebutt something, include some code, stats, data. if al you can quote is yourself quoting yourself quoting yourself saying "wrong because idiot" it makes you look more of the idiot than the person your accusing.

so please take the advice and do some research

You cannot change stop someone from doing something unless they wanna stop. Most of it's not necessary all of them are trollers.
Some of them could be legit people trying to figure out something they're unaware of.