Bitcoin Forum

According to this article (https://www.ccn.com/dollar-printed-75-billion-why-bitcoin-matters/)
"The US Quietly Printed $75 Billion out of Thin Air (For the Banks)."

FIAT, as everyone knows, can be printed out of thin air. They used to back it with gold, but they gave that up some fifty years ago. Real inflation is about 1 percent in Europe and USA but they increase that to about 2-2.5 percent by printing some money every year.
According to this news source, this time, the USA printed an unprecedented amount of money, 75 Billion dollars! Yes, that is with a B and not with an M.

Bitcoin has a limited supply and cannot be governed by governments or presidents. That is why they are afraid of it!
I predict Bitcoin price will skyrocket soon :)

https://i.ibb.co/MkWSdFv/applied-optimal.jpg



 

One possible reason why bitcoin was made is because of the non-transparent and over printing of US dollars. This could be one of the reason why some people are starting to join into the cryptocurrency world and use bitcoin. But it is still too early for bitcoin to replace bitcoin since the world is not ready yet. One day when there will be another global economic recession due to the overprinting of US dollars a big number of the populace will be migrating into bitcoin.

I don't think a small inflation such as 2% is a problem, as long as there is a place to keep your money safe from that (like 2% interest rates)

I was reading recently about deflation problems (this is what bitcoin will be facing soon, as many bitcoins are lost forever and very few created)

Deflation is problematic and it may aggravate recessions.



Bitcoin will be an alternative to fiat,and they will coexist. I believe bitcoin will work much more as a digital gold and cash (for remisses and things that are difficult to buy due to taxes or whatever)

This is and old and complex subject and always fascinating to discuss

How the world and economy will react when this method can't work anymore?
People are saying a crisis will hit us soon or later, and the consequences will be huge

Now we have BTC and cryptos, the idea of cryptos is opposite to this money created of thin air, how the world is going to react?
Some people are expecting a massive usage of BTC in a crisis

Bitcoins can't be printed, but the perceived supply could be inflated by fractional reserve banking. In the years to come, banks will be dealing with bitcoins -- deposits, lending and what not -- so that's likely to happen.

Sure. For the 30 minute research I've done in the past, 2% seems to be the sort of preferred number for inflation. The question though is, how long can they sustain the 2% inflation? How can we make sure it will be 2% forever? We can't. Though it's a lot less unlikely for the US to have higher inflation compared to some 3rd world country, it's just a matter of 'when' as far as I know.

Also, I don't think the deflationary nature of bitcoin would actually be harmful. I don't expect a huge majority of people to have money on bitcoin for SoV purposes anyway, just like not a lot of people have money in gold right now.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong though, I definitely need to do a lot more reading on economics.

In the UK at least less than 1% of risk free savings products are capable of beating inflation, and of that 1% you have to lock up the money for several years which may eat the gains anyway. That definitely did not used to be the case 10 or more years ago.

It's a different world now and it's probably remaining that way. If you don't want your money to be corroded into nothing they're going to make you work for it.

Bitcoin is 100% needed and the main reason is exactly what the OP said.
There are many other countries with much higher inflation rate. Many of third world countries print money for giving back the money people store in banks. These countries print money and people never find out how much they are printing. In these countries people store their money in the banks and they have nothing other than some numbers shown in their account. "Bitcoin is the solution."

This is true, but when central bank rate-cutting puts interest rates near 0% or even below, banks stop paying interest to savers. There are lots of US savings accounts that pay 2-2.5% APY right now, but from 2008-2015 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_funds_rate#Historical_rates) the target rate was at 0.00–0.25%.

Over that same period of time (http://www.in2013dollars.com/us/inflation/2008), prices inflated 19%! It feels like highway robbery.

The discussion seems to be evolving towards inflation rates. When I was talking about inflation, my point was that countries have been printing money, which is complementing inflation and reducing the FIAT, paper money's worth.
There are stronger indications now that FED has been injecting this money again and again.
This Thursday has become the third day in a row!
Business Insider (https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/fed-repo-injects-another-75-billion-into-market-2019-9-1028537926) has reported that the FED has injected $203 billion this week alone.

The market where banks borrow from each other is called the repo market. This money was related to repo market and the Federal Reserve bailed out a bank!
The major problem with this money injection is that the Fed did not reveal which bank it was saving. When you have transparency problems, it means there may be more bailing out money, and it can keep coming.

I got what you meant. You are right.
I read the replies to your topic. Some people believe that as 2% inflation rate is not high, there is no problem. They don't pay attention to the fact that the gevernment can print money as much as they want and there is no guarantee that the inflation rate will be 2% next year. They will print money whenver they want and the value of papers that people have doesn't matter to them.
The main problem is that we should try hard to earn something that can be easily printed by governments.

$75mill... thats small

the UK 'creates' wll over £90mill every year, and thats just the government 'loan' let alone the commercial banks activities

Cash is turning into a tool to control the government's economy, misusing it will put the country at risk of inflation and turn the economy into a chaotic fat. I think using Bitcoin will be the best solution for all of us, Bitcoin cannot create more and that eliminates the possibility that inflation may appear.

Yes you're right. It's just like US helping bitcoin to patronize by people because of their wrong moves. But as you said it yet the time for bitcoin to replace fiat because a lot of people still don't have any idea about cryptos. And I'm also hoping that that bitcoin price will go up soon.

They are not helping bitcoin to be more popular, they are doing it for themselves and not for that reason. It is been done for years, and when a crypto currency, pumps the price, they will be saying that its price is been made out of thin air, yet they make billions of fiats. People might hate fiat but the status of bitcoin and other crypto currency wi stay the same.

The inflation percentage will never be the same every year, maybe this gets maintained or till the ruling party is in power. Even if the inflation level go high it'll be kept hidden to show that they're wealthy to the outer world. Over the next ten years we can experience big change on the inflation level as there is direct printing of money by USA and China. Bitcoin being limited, even if the president or any other entity tries the supply is fixed. This will surely help with reducing the inflation rate of the country using bitcoin in a planned way.

The government support the Gold but if they do the math Bitcoin is the real gold because the supply is limited.
World population by 2050 is approximately 10 Billion
Amount of actual Bitcoin is just 21 Million
We could guess of how much is the future price value when we slowly approach that year.

It is not 75 Million!!! Here, check out what I wrote in the original post please:

I am quite surprised at this news, how the US could have ever thought of printing money when they know the effect of it on their country, they don’t care anyway, and they don’t even care of the effect of that on their fiat because if they do, they would not have printed such high amount.

Well I agree with you that we need bitcoin, bitcoin has limited supply and this is what satoshi aim to achieve, to stop all these baseless over printing if money. How I wish that US could accept to use bitcoin as their second money even if they will not completely disregard fiat because if its usefulness to those uneducated people that would find it hard to use cryptocurrency because of its internet base technology, but it is actually meant to serve as alternative which is what I expect the US to have looked into being the giant of the world.

Honestly I do not think Bitcoin is needed at its current state.  I would like to ask, in what sense is Bitcoin needed?  To preserve the value of money or what?  If in case USA adopted Bitcoin, with its (Bitcoin) nature of distribution, the core of USA economy will be shaken.  Imagine, using a currency where only a few individual have a huge stash of it.  Worst it is not the country's government holding it but rather a small number of people in different nation.  They can easily crash the economy of a country if these people who are holding huge stash of BTC decided to.  And we don't want that to happen, do we?


Lol, how could be Bitcoin be the real gold?  Read : "Au is not BTC".  Just because it has limited supply does not mean it can be the real gold.

Ok, the title reads "Proof the USA needs bitcoin. When you have a single entity, in this case, the US government, running everything, they can do anything they want. True they lose some votes, but it is not a very good day-to-day checking mechanism on the economy. Many people do not understand the intricacies of the economy anyways.
This is similar to having taxi cabs only, versus cabs plus Uber Lyft, etc.
Monopoly is a horrible thing and the government has a monopoly on money at this point. Having bitcoin and other crypto breaks that monopoly apart. That is the sole reason they don't want bitcoin. They are afraid of it because they cannot control it.
You will probably tell your grandkids that money was printed on paper and you had to ask the government for it.

The idea of Bitcoin is great yes, but in the current situation, Bitcoin partially moves into being monopolized by certain number of individual with a huge stash of Bitcoin and a group of people who have that majority vote on its concensus (reason for forks).  Yes, they(Bitcoin whales) cannot govern Bitcoin transaction or those who are holding BTC,but they can dictate the tempo of its market.  Imagine a country's economy that can be easily crashed by only a number of individual from the other country. 

As of the government does not want bitcoin because they cannot control it, I am in for that, but as a home owner, can you let someone from outsider govern your financial activity?  Isn't this the reason why we hated the government?  Probably same rule when it comes to government and bitcoin.

Yeah, what's truly bad about fiat is how it can be printed uncontrollably. The only thing that's supposed to stimulate the central banks not to do that is the risk of hyperinflation. But the temptation is so high! Especially if you're a country like the US that has a huge debt to other countries like China, and since your currency is the one many other currencies measure their value against, you feel like you will be safe no matter what. I think it's better to have volatility and be sure nobody's devaluating money in a centralized way than have a currency that seems stable but can actually explode anytime.

Monopoly in any form is just bad and I think we both agree on this point. That is why having a monopoly on value, in this case money, is bad. Competition=good monopoly= bad.
I also agree that a more balanced distribution would help matters on both crypto and Fiat. People have been complaining how a few individuals hold the top wealth in Fiat and it has been around for a very very long time. Crypto has been here since 2008, only 11 years. In time the distribution will be better I think. I don't have any evidence for it but things tend to get into more hands in time because whales will want to sell or spend what they have.

Lol I love this part "The US Quietly Printed $75 Billion out of Thin Air" That is exactly what people criticize bitcoin about and what trump was going on about. It's true so it's funny xD


I'm not sure if I am 100% correct but I think that most economies are based on debt. I know that USA is constantly in debt, while that sounds bad you must understand its constantly changing so todays debt was yesterdays and so on and so forth. What if the chain for debt stops? I'm not sure if it can but I would be more worried about that happening then anything bad happening with bitcoin.

Da darn Fed sends yet another $75 Billion to Financial System, making it the Fourth Repo Transaction This Week, according to this tweet (https://twitter.com/BitCoinBanka/status/1175311325322534912?s=19) based on a wall Street journal news.
They do as they please. This shows that there is a screwed up bank and the Federal reserve just prints Fiat as they go along to bail out the bank, whatever it takes.

In a way you are right about debt. But there are some nuances. First of all, the US seems way more debt-based both internally (people are very used to taking loans) and externally (the US owes the hell lot of money). Secondly, if we are used to it, it doesn't mean it's okay and won't at some point lead to a terrible crash. Thirdly, and this is a point that can support your view, debts are a way of establishing political relations. The last point is something I learned with my country. The EU gives us money, and expects us to use it to become more like EU. And we have political leaders calling for returning the debts and being fully independent, but this is seen as a threat and disrespect, because the close ties we we are built around having these debts.

Here is McCafe's opinion on why governments are afraid of crypto and why they want to control or ban them:
https://twitter.com/officialmcafee/status/1176173484126494721?s=09
He basically says that the fiat currency is slavery and the governments use it to control people's finances. The video is worth your time to watch.

And once again, the Chicago school dogma comes to haunt, and you probably don't even know why, or where it comes from, because you are yet to read about the "Austrian" school of economy.

What you wrote is all a lie, or even a myth. You are afraid of deflation, but you don't really know why, you just repeat what others wrote. Those others, studied the currently dominating school of economy. This school is flawed, it is THE reason for "recessions" as you call them.

The economists from the Austrian school think different. Bubbles, are formed because of the Chicago thinking, and where there are bubbles, there are pops. Bubbles never form under deflation, because people are more focused into saving and only spend what they need to spend. This spending is backed in TRUE savings, not the fiction known as fractional reserve banking, and all their debt inducing methods.

They induce inflation because they need in their flawed thinking, to people to keep getting in debt and consuming (out of vapor). All these things go under deflation.

Two opposites: Work 20 years to save and buy the house or, get a loan pay the house now and work 40 years to pay it back. Can you guess which is which?

Do not fear deflation, embrace it. It doesn't cause more problems, it cures them. The world doesn't need governments intentionally devaluing fiat, in fact such fiat is garbage, be it 1% in your country, or 10 million % in mine.

Bitcoin isn't facing any "trouble", the mistaken Chicago economists are. They have half a century telling lies, and before them were the keynesians but lets ignore those which are even worse.

This is the key element that is missing in your thought: https://mises.org/

Only then, will you ever understand the lies you have been told all your life.

The world NEEDS deflation, and it will come once the foolish governments are taken out of the equation.

And then you will see a rock solid economy devoid of bubbles, and people especially in the western hemisphere will learn to save before buying and not the other way around. We don't need an artificial economy standing on vapor, same thing happens to the first investors of a MLM scheme, they make lots of money and very fast, until people figure it out, that is.

Yes you have been living on vapor, and are even defending their scheme when you bring their lies here. You are in the dark, fooled by the State and the banksters that thrive and actually legalized that scheme in the past two centuries. But things will return to normal, fractional reserve banking will end, and the world will move to a global deflationary economy.

I can say that Bitcoin will be inevitable. There are many people say that Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies are ephemeral and won't be able to take place the current monetary system but this decentralized system is our future.

You are doing the same here, we all are. Or are you "inventing" now everything mises said?

Anyway, I don't think things are that simple. Deflation have lots of impacts in the economy. What will the interest rates be? Countries with low inflation are always experiencing negative interest rates (like -0.7% per year). Free market will adapt itself, even the financial market.

Where will you keep your money in an Deflationary scenario? under your bed? Don't tell me everyone will be using bitcoin.

I think the impacts of a low inflaton scenario with a proportional interest rate may be interesting. I don't know a lot about the suject also, I am just thinking about that with the pieces of information I have, and what I have experienced, and I think it makes some sense. But I may be wrong or missing some things.

The government and its central bank have for now get away from possible side effects of just printing money to cope up with the demand for payments because for now the American Dollar remains to be the foremost currency in the international commerce...there remains to be a global demand for it. Now, this is one reason why China is working beyond the limelight to make sure that its currency is to be accepted internationally as the possible replacement for the dollar. And yes this is coming not a matter of if but a matter of when. There will always the time for reckoning and when that will happen the economy of USA is going to be affected big time. I am hoping, though that this will not happen as USA when the country's economy go down everybody can be affected -- thus other countries should start now fortifying their economic defenses.

I think an excellent example of a deflationary economy is in Japan. People are so hard on saving; their government has been trying to get them to spend their money, instead of saving. This happens in a country affected by war because people have seen some hard times.
When people do not spend money, and the prices are lower, the wages get smaller as well, or the companies reduce labor size/cost to keep up with the falling prices. The unemployment rate increases, and those who received loans to purchase a home/car with some interest are screwed.  They are no longer working, or their salary is lower than what it used to be, at the time when they took out the loan.
However, and this is a big however, the inflation due to bitcoin is significantly different. In the case of Japan, you get a loan with FIAT, and you try to pay it with FIAT, and prices fall in FIAT. Let us consider a scenario where you get a 100K USD loan using FIAT. Then you start using bitcoin because there is adoption going and there is the mentioned deflation in bitcoin supply. The deflation, due to increased difficulty in mining, does not change anything. When there is a deflation in bitcoin, there will be inflation in terms of FIAT. The 100K you borrowed with FIAT used to be 10 BTC, but after some difficulty increase, deflation of BTC and inflation of FIAT, it is only 1.2 BTC You still owe 100K, or whatever is left on your loan after paying some of it, you may be getting your salary with BTC, and no one is the wiser.
Now I can almost hear people saying, well, perhaps you are unemployed because of deflation? Heck no. You see, the deflation is not on FIAT as in the example of Japan, it is in BTC, and there are no falling prices in terms of FIAT! And any falling price in BTC because of deflation will not be national, but it will be international, thanks to arbitrage people. So, if the rate of BTC is increasing in terms of FIAT in one country, it will be balanced because this is a global currency! I am pretty darn sure you will find some folks around the World, who are willing to spend their money.

Well, I am not an economist ... but from what I have read and the comments that people made about this, it was not actually money that was printed from thin air. They just created more liquidity in the market to prevent a disaster in the micro loan environment.  ::)

The reserve bank will tweak the economic parameters to artificially stimulate it, when things looks bad... but unfortunately most of these tweaks are being perceived negatively by the stock exchanges and global economists. <The cracks are starting to show again>

Time will tell, if your statements would be true.  ;)

It wouldn't be if it were the true figure of the increases in the cost of living.

In most places if you included property, both renting and buying, it's been 5-15% for several years. Funnily enough most governments don't include that in their inflation figure.

Also in many places wages have stagnated or fallen since 2008 so not only is inflation way higher than reported, you're also getting paid less. Adjust inflation to include that and it starts to look distinctly third world.

They also pull a thousand other tricks to make you think you're not a boiling frog like reducing the size of grocery portions and charging you the same amount.

https://www.businessinsider.com/if-people-knew-the-actual-inflation-rate-it-would-crash-the-economy-2016-8?r=US&IR=T

Well, cryptocurrency is of big help especially for developing countries and for economic growth, it is being implemented. Just because a country is developed doesn't mean it doesn't need a cryptocurrency anymore,. For a developed country to stay stable, they still need to follow and go with the flow of the rest of the world so their progress will be kept. Another thing is, cryptocurrency is most widely used in countries that is technologically innovated and advanced which happened to be most of the time, the developed countries.
        If there's a developed country, developing countries won't be out of the picture, since cryptocurrency is said to be implemented for economic growth, the latter uses it, and there are people across the world that uses bitcoin and such to send money from a developing country to developed country. So, it can't be considered that developed countries doesn't need cryptocurrency anymore.

Times without number this subject of discussion has been discussed and in as much as bitcoin offers a better alternative when it comes to the issue of printing money, it does not necessarily means government is printing money from thin air. Yes it is the function of government to keep money in circulation by printing more money or else, that is the beginning of another economic crises which everyone is trying to avoid. Government sometimes have to print more money for the following reasons among which include, replacing old and tattered ones, replacing those taken away from the system such as those travelling and those ferrying the amount of cash out of the system via alternate means and most times when printing this money because of the cost involved, its always on the higher side even more than the amount they are getting back in return.

True. We can solely depend on fiat currencies seeing that they are unlimited, and this is why there will always be inflation. At the least, this is enough reason we cannot choose to sleep on cryptocurrency or chose to ignore its values. These countries developed or not, should come in terms with these coins and the blockchain technology and see how it can help improve their economy.

I think eventually the U.S. government or any other governments will give up and legalize Bitcoin. They can't stop Bitcoin but they can try to make their cryptocurrency and use it as local currency in the future.

I believe that nobody can stop to the people adopting crypto currency and used bitcoin by world wide even the most riches country time comes to use bitcoin,
Until the system technology are continue to improve and progress not possible bitcoin is replace fiat or even US dollars as new form of money but time comes not now we need to wait for maturity of bitcoin in the market.

Government must think the goodness of bitcoin and its advantages. But they are afraid because they cannot see or track the source of each transaction so easily. But our technology is fast paced we need to embrace the technology because if not we will not be grow and develop. I am seeing the advamtage and disadvantages of bitcoin when it will be legalize by govt.

They know all of it, they talked alll about it. That's why they are trying to have their hands into it.
Anonymity is one of the functions of bitcoin, and government is not actually afraid of it.
Government wanted to have their hands on crypto, they want to manipulate/control it.

Majorly, government are refusing to adopt cryptocurrencies not because they are oblivious of its values and the advantages it would yield the system, but because they are scared of the threat that it poises, maybe due to its anonymity. But regardless, I believe it is a really good cause, and should be adopted by both developed and underdeveloped countries.