Bitcoin Forum

Recently, I was reading this news that Israeli cybersecurity startup GK8 has developed the first system that enable the blockchain transactions without the need for an Internet!! How can this be Possible?

Well the new system uses GK8’s proprietary cryptographic techniques that enables the transactions to get executed without Internet. The company raised $4 million in a funding round led by Discount Capital, a venture arm of one of Israel’s three largest banks, Discount Bank, and Marius Nacht, a co-founder of cybersecurity giant Checkpoint.

As reported by Globes, GK8’s new cryptographic techniques allowed the company to develop a cold wallet with “hot wallet functionalities,” securing user funds from hackers and cyberattacks.

GK8 is currently targeting financial institutions, custodians, exchanges and hedge funds which hold cryptocurrencies. GK8's custodian technology is already operational and helps to securely manage digital assets for clients such as eToro, a global multi-asset trading and investment platform.

Current custodian solutions used by financial institutions and state-owned enterprises do not meet institutional scale security standards. In addition to existing security protocols, digital assets based on blockchain technology need a higher security standard since signed transactions are irreversible. To meet this challenge, GK8 experts have developed this technique to provide a secure environment to sign blockchain transactions and execute automatic reconciliation confidently.

The company’s techniques, protected by five registered patents, can bypass core assumptions related to cryptocurrency transfers and eliminate attack vectors to any asset transfer.


>> My question here - Is this technique is really secure than the current solutions? Is our funds are safe from hackers and cyberattacks?


Edit:

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Source:
https://cointelegraph.com/news/israeli-startup-that-allows-offline-crypto-transactions-secures-4m
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-blockchain-deals-without-internet-co-gk8-raises-4m-1001301213
https://www.coindesk.com/gk8-blockchain-wallet-offline
https://www.cryptonewsz.com/israeli-start-up-gk8-develops-offline-wallet-for-cryptocurrency-holds-online-transaction-capability/43398/

I wonder how can they transfer data?  Without a means of communication or connection, isn't it impossible to relay data especially on the other part of the world?  Offline means being out in the network.  So how can they transmit data to other country or other places if they are disconnected from others?

the whole article looks like a very vague advertisement of a service and it seems to me like they were paid to publish this!
and to be honest it all seems like over-usage of buzzwords and technobabble to make it look "special" while it looks like (at least to me) that it is what any other hardware wallet does: a "unidirectional connection" where it signs transactions internally then broadcasts the signed result online!

Yeah its a little bit technical but I found it confusing that they are using the term "offline" when recording transactions to a blockchain which is quite contradictory to the very nature of blockchains which for me is a distributed computing system that are connected via the internet. I think you have a good analogy on using a hardware wallet's "unidirectional connection" feature which "uses only one direction for data communication" and I thought they  associate it with being "offline" maybe just to create hype.

The article sounds like a bunch of words that sound smart but don't make much sense. I know that it's possible to perform transactions offline, there was another project that made it possible to access blockchain through space (with the help of the satellites), for instance. Another thing that could make is not offline, but an off-chain solution, something like the Lightning Network. I think we'll learn soon enough what this is really about, I think the satellite solution is a likely answer, but we'll see. For now, it's just words without particular meaning.

Pretty sure you could just transfer private keys, that's a simple ways to transmit value without using the internet.

There are also direct line communications that can use laser to transmit information without ever touching the internet. There are certainly dozens of different ways to transfer BTC without using the internet.

However, if this occurs through a transaction, it will eventually need to be settled on chain.

That's never a good idea, regardless of how 'proven' certain ways of transferring private keys through the air actually are.

Currently we have various mesh networks, where GoTenna even has partnered with BlockStream (https://www.coindesk.com/gotenna-partners-with-blockstream-satellite-to-make-using-bitcoin-without-an-internet-connection-simpler) to utilize their satellites. I put much more confidence in these entities to provide the technology that will allow people to transact without the internet, because they are well funded and pretty far in development already. But then again, more competition is always a good thing.

Another way to transact offline is to use physical coins (e.g. Casascius, BTCC mint, Denarium, Satori). It works just as convenient as physical cash and nothing will ever move on-chain.

I am thinking along the lines of telemetry software system for this "unidirectional" transfer system that they are trying to advertise or convey to the public. I'm a fan of such, if we're still in the 1960s-1970s but right now, that's just too slow in today's standards. But if this was embedded in an offline wallet, it could work knowing that there are only a few bytes of data included in sending and receiving transaction data. I'm somewhat confused along the lines of "hot wallet functionalities." If the system is capable of doing such, I'm assuming that they achieved offline transmissions on a long-range at high speeds, but I doubt it--or perhaps I'm getting rusty on my tech knowledge.

This might be a paid press release, though there's no disclosure on the Globes article.

It sounds like a variant of a typical offline signing model: Create a secure offline environment where transactions are signed, transfer the signed transaction using non-internet means, then securely push a signed transaction:


I'm very skeptical of these claims being thrown around. It sounds like they're using a fairly standard setup -- just like a hardware wallet -- and are throwing patents all over it. This sounds like a load of crap:

This unfortunately is the big game stopper. "a few hardware" might be receiving data. but sending? This is an order of magnitude more complex, AND expensive, even if they let random people send data as well (which i doubt). And checking their site, there is zero mention of data upload (via antenna), you can send them some text file from the internet for them to broadcast, but that's about it. It IS unidirectional...

I would have tried it if they had chosen a different satellite for South America, instead of something Mexico centered, perhaps something more Brazil centered...

 It obviously involves offline syncing somehow, maybe an alternative way to sync using phones or some other network of sorts? Possibly a universal ledger that syncs with other chains somehow? Sounds pretty interesting and I can't wait till they unveil exactly how it works. I'm guessing if a startup has figured it out, there are certainly other who are working on similar projects.

The minimum bid to send data is 50 mSat/byte.

It's pretty gimmicky since no one is really sending data to the satellite. You upload or type the message/transaction here (https://blockstream.com/satellite-queue/) using a regular internet browser. Once you pay, Blockstream adds your transaction to the satellite queue to be broadcasted.

Pure marketing bullshit (IMHO), they know that if they do the first step in this blockchain security solution thing, the competitors would always be the 2nd or 3rd solution on the market...
So despite of that possibly they don't have a working solution for the problem, they can communicate like they already have and people will believe it...
Also, if they can make contracts beforehand, they can secure their position on the market...
The communication is a bit like this: OK, we have the solution, we have patients to protect it, so you have to make business with us, because the others won't be able to serve you with this kind of solution... we're not ready yet but as soon as we are, you'll be the first who can use this revolutionary thing, etc, bla-bla...

Or, it's also possible that they will create a centralized database and fill it with pre-generated public/private keys, and they will fund these addresses with bitcoin.
After, when a customer (because they are a bank and they have customers) wants to buy bitcoin, they just assign the proper public keys to the customer to show that he has the bitcoin. Probably they won't let the customer to move the funds, they just let them sell the bitcoins (meaning that they will cancel the assignment of the public key and the customer). This is possible because they are trusted by the customers, so they can run a centralized system (because of the trust). Bitcoin is a working system were the trust is excluded from the system so for those who really understand what bitcoin (and the blockchain system) is about, these kind of 3rd parties are just useless things...

I regularly read blockchain-related technology news and realise that this is one of the security features for your assets. However, offline transactions can still cause errors, and this is what worries me, we still need to verify the absolute value of the offline exchange. However, with offline, you can ensure the safety of all Bitcoin and Altcoins.

I don't see the point in having an offline system when basically everything today is online. What are we going back to the stone age? Even the poorest of countries still has the technology and some access to the internet.
The cost to buy a cheap phone and some airtime to go online is much much cheaper and much easier than opening a bank account. You can buy a phone and add airtime and make crypto transactions within a few minutes of your time. Banking would take forever and carry heavy fees. Heavy banking fees are what pusher poorer families away from using banks but now they can get their own bank and they have the power. All thanks to crypto.

Thanks everyone for explaining your thoughts on this. I felt few information are missing in this post. I gathered few more information where I found a Video by one of the board members of GK8, and one of the founding scientists of Zcash token, Prof. Eran Tromer explained that -


--> Check this Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jz9rIW1zmG8) by Prof. Eran Tromer


Also, a patent abstract associated with Lamesh described the technology as follows:

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Source: https://www.coindesk.com/gk8-blockchain-wallet-offline
https://www.cryptonewsz.com/israeli-start-up-gk8-develops-offline-wallet-for-cryptocurrency-holds-online-transaction-capability/43398/

:D offline signing. then carrier pigeon to another location to broadcast :D

i would never even go near something like this simply because they are obviously lying about a ton of things and exaggerating what their product does. an honest company would simply first acknowledge the previous works and the already existing tools (for example in this case the hardware wallets that already exist) and then explains why their product is any different from others. but they chose the lying route saying their crap is "world's first" whereas it is repetition of what was already created.
maybe they are doing it this way because they are afraid they might get sued soon for ripping off other patents.

Well, the idea of an offline transaction is quite more concerning than the safety of bitcoin and other crypto currencies. I don't even know how will that work but I don't see that happening in the future. It will not cause errors, it will not worry you since this will not be a thing. Or even if it is a thing, I don't think people will like this.

In any case, this is all very interesting information that deserves close attention. Assuming that such a technical solution is possible, then this can produce a new wave of the technical revolution in cryptocurrency. After all, hackers and various fraudsters this year alone stole more than $ 4.3 billion in cryptocurrency holders. If such a technical solution is possible that will increase the security of cryptocurrency so much, this will completely change the attitude towards it for the better. Cryptocurrency has only just begun to develop, and it is still largely imperfect. Therefore, I believe that new technical solutions will inevitably arise.

i think i have heard simillar news like this before but thier idea was it was like a wifi hotspot where users can connect and transact even if no internet is available as long as they are  near on the coverage area  .

 idea like this are great and must be introduced on the countries or to those places that internet is not really accesible or out of coverage area   even if its only work like an extension but still this will greatly help people to experience the use of cryptos   .

All these offline transactions are just another piece of sugarcoated gimmick, they’re some of the most notorious target for double spending attack. It’s all good when you try to spend offline within yourself and your own wallet, if you are receiving payment thru offline method, you better be sure to broadcast the signed hash as soon as possible before all the balance in the wallet being move to a new one, I’m talking about a matter of milli-seconds at the interval between receiving and broadcasting it. Imagine you receive the signed offline hash and when you try to broadcast it later due to laziness, and then realize the said wallet has zero balance left (or just moved recently) and the transaction will be immediately deem invalid, ( you should expect the broadcast to return error when there is no balance to transfer) so basically you receive a payment from scammer and get nothing in the end, why get yourself into this hassle just trying to be safe by being offline? It’s a big trap to scam all the less tech savvy miner, want to be safe? Follow the basic rule, use the core wallet and install full client, any service that promote safety are outright there to get their hand into your gullible crypto by exploiting your Opsec mistake.

Although offline transactions of cryptocurrencies is something difficult to accept but its possibility cannot be ruled out. When we do not have idea about anything it looks impossible to us but when the things come into existence, all of the sudden our mindset gets changed. Blockchain technology is a game of coding only, it needs some media to travel, it may be somewhere digital media like internet or may be other media like air, human mind or anything. Technology is evolving ,lets wait for their outcome, Israelis are worth believing.

Let us assume that it could be done, but what for? For additional security? because I understand that even with that tech I don't think it will drastically lessen the chances of being compromised since most systems I believe "is as good only as its weakest link" and in this case, the human factor!

I think too many people are pissing on innovation and we should be happy when a wide variety of unique services are developed to cater for everyone needs.  ;)  This might not be new or a groundbreaking innovation, but it might be a option that some people want.  ;)

When 3rd party services started offering services in the Bitcoin scene, some people frowned on this, but in hindsight a lot of adoption was triggered from the convenience of services like this. Yes, it might not be the ideal solution and it comes with pros and cons... but it is also helpful to some people.  ;)

Data is too cheap so people need this just to save few cents?

And this is not really an offline transaction I guess,we can initiate the transaction in offline but it will get confirmed once we get connected to internet like that!

I guess someone is not a fan of reading articles, aren't they?

The article is kinda confusing technically since the transaction is not completely offline as what the title says. I guess this is how they do to attract curious people by making a bit of interesting title for the headlines.

I don't know if this kind of system is useful enough for people who like to send cryptocurrency to someone without a delay. Or for people who are trading in short term.

This attitude will not end well for you. :-\


If there was real demand for it maybe, but I think it's pretty easy to pay the minimum bid. You could broadcast a 250 byte transaction for 0.000000125 BTC = 0.05 satoshi/byte.

It's sort of cool, especially because it's payable with Lightning. But it doesn't add any real resiliency to the network. There are already lots of places you can broadcast transactions for free if you have internet access, so it's just an empty gimmick.

The cryptocurrency space is powered or fuel through the internet, I doubt the possibility of an offline transaction of cryptocurrency, as we have several scammers in the space this day, you must ensure you secure your portfolio in order to avoid been scam, I feel there is realy no demand for an offline CRYPTO transaction.

The articles is not realistic, how can they able to do that? I really feel about this crypto offline transaction.
I will support if they can create something better than the internet connection. We all know that in the entire world
the internet connection was too useful in any aspect of business. And internet nowadays can also big instant communication
in different places of the world now.

This article is very unreliable for me, because as of now our world is full of internet connection. How they do some transactions without using internet connection? Are there things run and work without internet connection? i think fewer things right now are still working without internet. With this, our world is run by internet, everywhere there is internet.