Bitcoin Forum

It was Hhampuz who had left managing Livecoin Signature Campaign, because they did scam, it was one time only. I was also supporting leaving campaign management of Hhampuz. There was a lot of debate going on.
Yahoo has blcklisted the users who promoted Livecoin.

Hundreds of scam accusation against Yobit- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134358.0
Strange! Yahoo has no problem with Yobit, even it has hundreds of scam accusation?
Double Standard?

Local Rule (if anyone follows)- Please no cryptotalk sig here.

The difference is, yobit is smart enough to not make an appearance here with their official account. If they were that dumb I am pretty sure that account would have been flashing red already.

I had no problems with btc-e but they were also red. (I mean even long before they completely collapsed)

Anyway, I think you have a point.

*Also, the attitude of Livecoin pissed many people off. It wasn't just the "scam". It was also how they handled the problem. In yobit's case, they don't give fuck about the accusations at all.  ;D

Would you rather have no campaign manager handling YoBit, or perhaps one of YoBit's own staff managing the campaign?

This matter has been discussed time and time again and we have said the same things.

This thread doesn't mean anything to you, then? List of banned participants in the Cryptotalk Campaign (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5188200.0)

People here and anywhere are looking for money, that's what we all care about. There are worse things going on in this forum.

They have- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=406594

Isn't Livecoin promoting themselves? If Yahoo can blacklist Livecoin promoters, why not Yobit? Yahoo clearly said that he will blacklist any user who promote Livecoin. I was pointing that, not managing by Yahoo or a Yobit staff. If spam would generate, then great LORD theymos could do something to keep his forum clean like he did before.

Yeah, people don't bother participating in single campaign with 2 accounts  :D

Wew, I was half wrong. There was indeed a yobit acc and it is negative trusted as I guessed It would.

I don't think anyone really cares, we allow scammers to post on this forum, who cares about a bunch of spammers?

I think you're a bit late.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5183601.0
yahoo62278 did make a new freshly made start for all including Livecoin participants.

And an addition to this, back then(Yobit Spam) there were a high number of bans, and I think that should do it already, that doesn't make sense if a user gets on the SMAS list if they were already banned.

The idea that we have to rely on theymos for everything—especially when a sensible solution to control spam exists—is absolutely ridiculous.

And if I were to choose between yahoo vs. someone who doesn't care about the post quality, well... the answer should be obvious.

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If yahoo does start blacklisting CryptoTalk participants from his other campaigns, that would add some incentive to stay clean, but the reality is that most of the people who are going to join the campaign would never have a chance of joining his other campaigns.

Scrape the bottom of the barrel, dig a little further, then tunnel down a couple miles, and that's where you'll find YoBit quality.

Change is inevitable, we should learn to accept that. In my opinion, It shouldn't be tagged double standard if the idea behind the decision is for the best interest of the forum. Livecoin got back my support after they did the best they could in resolving the accusations against them i.e returning the seized money and gave the affected user access to his account. The idea towards this open accusations are to prevent others from falling victims to the scam projects and probably resolve the resolvable issues as we have experienced with some of the other scam accusations.

What ever decisions taken by @Yahoo, if you observe closely is for the best interest of the forum. It's better this way than how it was previously operated. Atleast we can see the impact of his involvement.

I would rather they have no manager, or a very poor manager.

The above would mean a few days of spam, followed by YoBit having their signatures blacklisted and being unable to advertise. It would also mean a bunch of spammers would get banned.

The status quo means that a shady business can advertise and many people with questionable ethics and profiting from advertising a company that is reasonably a scammer with impunity.

Yahoo made amnesty to all users from his past blacklist. It was very good and smart act, because i know that some people were there since bitmixer.io signature campaign (it was in late 2016 or in the yearly-middle of 2017) without any weighty reason, just because admin of bitmixer.io asked to do that (for honest, i don't remember true reason, but i know that for many russian local members it was not true)


In fact, flag of izoomrud untrue any longer after they unblocked his account and gave his money back to him (except those that were "invested" in MONA, but this is his fault to buy shitcoins). But as we see, many people still support it.

Now he is keep trolling in russian local board with new "cool stories".

That's not the only difference.  I do recall the scam accusation against Livecoin, and it looked like they were an out-and-out scam exchange, unlike Yobit where most users have no problem.  I'm loathe to stick up for Yobit even though I've used them and they've never scammed me, because I'm aware of all the accusations against them--but they've been around a long time and I don't think they're a true scam exchange like so many others.

It's also worth noting that many scam accusations against Yobit were never followed up on, so there's no way of knowing if they got resolved.

I have no issue with people promoting Yobit, because as I said most people don't have problems with them.  They just don't address customer problems like they should, which is a stupid move on their part--and who knows, maybe they do it on purpose to scam a little here and there.  I wouldn't put it past them, but I really don't know. 

As far as their campaign goes, I would much rather see it with a good manager like Yahoo62278 than have a repeat performance of last time.  Everybody loses in a case like that--people get banned, Yobit loses their advertising, and the forum gets spammed.  No winners there.

No, not at all, it is all in your head.

Yahoo would never help promote service which is setting one ponzi ICO after another, people would never defend someone who is promoting service marked as pump-and-dump scheme, all scam accusations against them are just part of your imagination, besides, good manager can make all bad things to go away, because they are not that bad (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134358.0).

Eventually, you will have bitcointalk forum filled with people who will say this (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134358.msg50731001#msg50731001) or this:

...and at the same time they won't have any problem to receive payouts from them, well, maybe that payout came, as coin-investor said, from "most number of traders that scammed traders", or maybe just from IEO which is "not good and not recommended", or maybe just from market manipulation, like magneto said. But that is ok, as long as manager keeps this forum spam free  ::)

https://i.imgur.com/B6Syiqxm.jpg

Shit, you really like you live in some weird reality (or just creating post for your signature campaign). You're talking about things, that don't have any attitude to reality, really.

Show me other people who suffered from Livecoin. You should understand that i'm from russian board and in topics about Livecoin in our board there were many multiaccounts (they were red tagged by oir DT members) who just crying like "Omg, we suffer, our money were stolen!!!11" but in fact they were operated by one man.

Also, Livecoin still works (the same as Yobit)

In fact, i don't consider neither Livecoin or Yobit as scams, so i don't see in Yahoo's deeds anything bad.
But it's funny to see people which were crying like "Yobit scam", "Livecoin scam", "Livecoin the same as yobit - scams" now using Putin style replic like "mnyah mnyah..... do you understand..... plyamk.... difference.... ehehem.... not the same.... our yahoo partners (allusion to "our western partners).... we keeep watching...... plyamk"

Shame on you! (c)
https://i.imgur.com/vgd5MLkm.jpg

Edited:
In fact, i didn't find that anyone above tagged Yobit or supported flag againt it, so my second speech it's not to them.

Livecoin is definitely a shady exchange. A while back, I signed up with Livecoin just to test it out as a secondary exchange, and I bought a small amount of crypto, and when I came back I didn't find them. So I went to go through the history transactions and because it was a while back I couldn't see anything because they don't show you old history. I contacted support and their response was something along the lines of "your transactions and balances were more than 30 days old, and we can not do anything".

Never using them. Thank goodness they were never my primary exchange.

First of all that is not correct information and second, not flagging/tagging something dozen times doesn't make it less shady/scam.

So, pump and dump is fraud, ponzi is fraud and people do lose money, but this is not important because you:

What is not correct?  :)


Please, read more attentively my post. I understand that you need to make your weekly post count, but this doesn't mean that you can spam here with nonsense.  I quoted shitty statements and just clarify them, so your "second" is not applicable to any word in my post.


Quote out of context. I knew that one day someone will try to use it as an argument. In reality, it was about the fact that i don't accept arguments like "this is against the law" because the law is very different from country to country. In some countries "against the law" is do not kill fallen woman (in meaning woman that suck not only husband's cock) in some freedom of speech is "against the law" or freedom of existence to some nations.
And also it was in speech about "I will not follow their ToS because in my country it's against the law, ha ha" so i just told that i don't accept argument's like "this is against the law" because it's shitty statement. One day, in the future cryptocurrencies can become "against the law"

it all depends on which angle we look to this "problem".
This is not a signature campaign which directly promotes Yobit exchange and his service. It is the promotion of a new forum, named "cryptotalk" and they use Yobit just as a payment processor.
Everybody's talking about Yobit, cryptotalk.org we visited two-three times (my case) even though it is actually being advertised.
I have to admit that everything is well done by the marketing side.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=406594
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5134358.0.
That must be it.

The fact that Yobit did not prove to be an out-and-out scam and livecoin too hasn't been proved a scam exchange. Scam exchange would mean not paying any user like Cryptopia. Yobit can be considered shady (selectively paying out some and not the others) but not a complete scam and now as well yobit is paying out its participants without imposing any new rules or refusing payments which many members are taking advantage of as well.

The campaign anyways won't last long paying off 100+ members so I don't see an issue here but many members can end up getting banned as most of them are just spamming. It's again not something that can be termed illegal, fraudulent or scammy.

Selectively paying out people isn't considered scam for you?

Maybe I should start asking for loans in the forum. Pay only a few of them, and start getting called out for being "shady". ::)

What I can see it happening is they putting something like X BTC every week/month which can easily run out (due to the amount of participants flooding the forum with 15~20 posts day all that suddenly) and some people will get paid, while others won't. I believe this happened in their old campaign (older than their first appear here this year).

Ehhm. Do you see in flag support or maybe in trust ratings nicknames "mindrust", "ETFbitcoin", "The Pharmacist"? Or who is DT member also and had written before my post were made.

In fact, I just can't to catch someone in double standarts just because in fact we doing promotion of another crypto forum and not Yobit itself.

Your point seems unclear, can you clarify?

Are you saying you should be allowed to advertise for scammers if certain people tell you it is okay?

The initial poster of course has a very valid point.

Yahoo seems to be primarily concerned with making money. Or is he offering this service for free ?

Not exactly. The same reason why banks start freezing accounts of some and cheat some but not all and are still operating legally. Bounty campaigns here have done the same wherein they paid some and not others giving excuses. I would call these banks and campaigns fraudulent but others won't as they did not behave the same way with them.

Every exchange has the same history and I myself withdrew my BTC earnings via yobit by selling my coins and I know many users did not for God knows what reasons. I wouldn't consider using them at times but since they paid me, I might take a risk with few shitcoins which are worthless otherwise.



Till Yahoo is managing the campaign, I feel everyone who deserves being paid will be paid. I don't see such a situation possible till Yahoo exists. Else, earlier we had nobody and hence yobit took advantage.

Sory, my dear friend, i'm full of russian local board trolls, so starting to flame with english famous troll it's beyond my powers.

But, about my last word i'll give a clarification to you.
In fact, as i said here - no one promotes yobit. People promotes Cryptotalk org. Do you have any proofs that cryptotalk is scam?

Have you not heard proof is one of those thing you should not wait for. Ask DT members, by the time you have proof then it is already too late? that is their mantra?

I am happy that we await proof before jumping to negative action personally. I am only pointing out clearly, that proof is only required IF IT DOES NOT STOP DT OR SCAMPAIGN MANAGERS EARNING MONEY.

Yobit are not a terrible scam compared to some. However, they are totally out of control turning off wallets and not updating wallets after years of being requested to do so. It can be thought of perhaps as a semi scam in the context of other REAL SCAMS like huge exit scams etc.

Please take up you disagreement with DT members. They say waiting for proof is folly and a ridiculous idea. Any probable connection to scamming or scams or even just whistle blowing is enough for a scam tag.

For that reason then yahoo should not be assisting them.

I mean is live coin worse than yobit? not in our books. Hhampuz left (under pressure, partly in fact due to yahoos comments about them) so this is a little confusing? then again double standards make things confusing don't they.

And you think Yobit does this shit legally? Like just turning offline all wallets of a specific coin, making everyone have their coins stuck for months?

Yeah man, and usually these get called a scam and receive a nice negative trust.

No, it does not.

"Many users did not [receive their withdrawals] for God knows what reasons", but... Yobit can't be considered a scam exchange. Nice.

You do know that everything Yahoo is doing is banning the users who spamburst/shitpost, right? He doesn't count posts nor pay people. This is on Yobit and their shadiness.

Until theymos blacklist signatures once and for all, who really cares?

There is a flag (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153493.0) against YoBit that explains why it is dangerous to do business with them. Reasons include a history (https://archive.is/d2LAr#selection-317.1-321.118) of YoBit conducting what appears to be something similar to Pump and Dump schemes on coins traded on their exchange.

As I explained, YoBit being unable to advertise is the key feature because of my belief they are untrustworthy and shady. The people who get banned are those who are spammers, which I also see as a feature. The YoBit spam is not as bad as it was before, however I have noticed a lot of useless posts by people advertising for YoBit, even if they do not qualify to get deleted/removed. With the spam not being as flagrant as before, we will see continued spam, instead of only a couple of days of spam.

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I also found (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5167034.msg51885227#msg51885227) this post:


Given that both LiveCoin and YoBit have active flags with a lot of support, I am curious why LiveCoin advertisers were added to a blacklist, while YoBit advertisers are not.

It would be a good incentive to not participate in the campaign, though considering the quality of the participants, it's unlikely that they (or rather, most of them) would be seriously considered by yahoo in one of his other campaigns in the first place.

YoBit is one of the shadiest crypto exchanges, there is no doubt about that considering the number of reported cases in this forum only. Although this is the indirect advertising of YoBit via some new forum, fact is that payment is done over YoBit, the same as the candidate application without any checking.

Personally, I was surprised by this sudden turn from yahoo62278 to support YoBit in their efforts to advertise on this forum. The reason for this is the attitude of most forum members toward YoBit as shady/scam exchange, making blacklist with users who promote them and even tag them for doing that. So how is it possible that now the main problem is only "how to handle spam", and not how to protect users of this forum to not be scammed by YoBit?


That's a good question, and there are two possible answers - double standards or personal benefit, maybe both?

The same things has been discussed many times in the already active threads. i do not see any reason to create a new threads for it again and again other than to gain some merits.
 

Did Yobit hire Yahoo for removing spammer or a group of people? Or Yahoo hired some others? Now it makes sense why the so-called forum lover who care about forum most, try to prevent scam, are so silent.

Go and lick the ass of your boss shit spammer.

Yahoo cares and that's why they he are managing the campaign. Didn't you offer anything to them for running Livecoin campaign  :D

You can't see the spammers being banned or you are deaf.



Screaming and abusing  will not make you noble.

Then why the hell are you still wearing signature, you moron.

Thank you for reminding me once again. Just a suggestion/request/advice whatever you think it is-
Don't post off-topic everywhere. If you want discussion on this matter (which I think you desperately want since you are posting this everywhere), please create a topic. I will join there politely without a single off-topic word unlike you.

Jealous because i am wearing something , the signature and You are naked  :D  
You need to grow up !

The forum doesn't moderate scams and will certainly not ban Yobit (or Livecoin) from advertising here due to being scam exchanges. The first Yobit campaign was banned not because the exchange is a scam but because it filled the forum with spam. We can either let them do it again and hope that theymos will bother to blacklist this new sig, or try to control it with tools available to us (mod reports, and reporting to yahoo62278).

I would prefer the campaign to not exist but that doesn't appear to be a viable scenario. Let's say the URL gets blacklisted - there is nothing stopping them from coming back with a dummy domain redirect or a URL shortener. They have already shown that they can run the campaign completely off site if they wanted to, and that there is no lack of suckers wanting to earn $1-2 per post. Having a quality control person (which is what yahoo62278 essentially does, not really "managing" it) is better than not having one.

Tagging users for wearing a signature pointing to a forum is too much IMO. It doesn't even link to the actual exchange.

Livecoin is a shady exchange but that doesn't mean any other exchange can't be shady. But as far as yobit goes many people might have had a few problems with yobit but all on all I have never seen a person experiencing scam from Yobit. They have a legendary member account who is continuously active here listening to various scam accusations of people. They might have been a lot slower in their customer support but at the end they play it quite safe with your funds unless you are foolish and yourself do some mistake.

I agree that it is better to do something than to let spam storm to happen again, although from what I see on the forum the situation is not good at all, pointless and poor quality posts are everywhere, which stems from the fact that the applications are completely uncontrolled - is it even possible to control hundreds of people in one campaign?

It is true that link from sig does not lead directly to YoBit, but to be paid user must register to that exchange which is more than obvious promotion of YoBit, and it is fun to see that exchange board is listed as second board from the top on that forum and that YoBit is have thread with most comments, coincidence or not everyone can judge for themselves...

What I see as a problem in this story is that the bad product is packed in new packaging, and it has hired a manager who has a reputation. Although I am aware that the forum is not moderate scams, on the moral side, it is wrong to help them in any way.

Welcome to Bitcointalk :)

The same can be said about shamelessly scammy shitcoin threads and signatures that are given a platform here. If anything, Yobit - if they don't end up scamming campaign participants - at least pays in BTC and they now have an on-site "controller" plus a lot of people motivated to report the posts. I don't see that as helping them, more like trying to herd sheep in the right direction. Free speech FTW.

I think solving that problem is quite easy. Several people already mentioned that Yobit should implement the usual signature campaign route: require approval before they got paid. If that's not implemented, then having thousands of members suddenly burst posting within a week is not impossible at all.

Even if Yobit was not shady, they'd attract spammers if they continue with the way it is.

They are being allowed to participate in the YoBit campaign, which is a campaign Yahoo has the ability to remove participants from.

The only difference between LiveCoin and YoBit that I can see is that Yahoo is presumably receiving payment from YoBit.

It is disappointing that yahoo is not receiving the same pressure to close the YoBit campaign as Hhampuz received to close the LiveCoin campaign.

The current posts made by those receiving a lot of money to advertise for YoBit are not nonsense posts, even if they are not written by crypto experts. Those advertising for YoBit tend to have a “diverse” posting history and have been posting very little prior to joining the campaign. This leads me to believe many of these accounts are being farmed and were possibly bought. I am a strong believer in the free market but a lot of what appears to be happening with those involved in the YoBit campaign is highly frowned upon by many and the situation as a whole leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

There's something we are missing I think. I was a little active in the cryptotalk forum and what I observed that, cryptotalk isn't a forum from Yobit. It's certainly a different company who wants to build an active forum. They are using Yobit for an easy payment, less work, no one to trust. Since Yobit is an exchange, certainly they will not commit fraud with the fund.
So, there's no problem with managing the campaign, cryptotalk has hired Yobit, yobit has hired yahoo.
Yahoo is not directly managing the campaign, participants acceptance is automated, anyone can apply even a lower rank member. But once they are found spammer, when yahoo check manually, they are being removed. It's not an easy task to get 100% qualified participants within week, right since the acceptance is automated.
My two weeks signature management experience-
I was trying to get the best promoters, quality posters although the pay was low. But out of 0.03 BTC budget in 1st week, I was able to spend 0.018 BTC which can never satisfy my boss. If yahoo goes with same strict rules, he will not get more participants as per budget. May be he will be able to spend 20% of the budget. What will you say, yahoo is incapable or bitcointalk has low good posters (which refers lack of real interested person). As well as the cryptotalk owner will certainly be not happy and recruit anyone less capable of mamaging spam either.
Once again, the main point is, no one promoting yobit here at all.

There is no doubt that Yobit is a shady exchange but the difference here is that they are not advertising their exchange to have a wild discussion like this. But it all boils down to morality whether you want to take part in something like that.

From what i understand Yahoo is just paid to monitor the spam and remove the users who spam the forum and he has nothing to do with the payment.

If signatures are gone for good then no one will have any complaints whats so ever  :D. If we convert this site to trade goods and that is the main reason everyone was active here from the start and to sort bitcoin technical issues you will not get the traffic like we have now.

If there is no link between them then why would they use their platform to send out the funds :-\.

Yobit panel for payout is thousand times better than manually check, counts and send. Moreover the campaign budget is huge per week (~5 BTC +), current campaign manager is trusted to us with holding this amount (I believe Yahoo will not run campaign if the project owner hold the fund), but may be admin isn't getting trust on him with this amount. That's why Yobit has been chosen.
I'm not 100% confirmed but this is what my observation is.

We should not be naive and think that promoted forum and YoBit have nothing in common, they are obviously more than connected just by paying panel.

 - fact 1 : YoBit is Russian exchange, half of the forum is in Russian.
 - fact 2: Exchange board second from top // no wonder it's YoBit place for extra advertising.
 - fact 3: If you pack bad product is new packaging, it is easy to sell it and say it has nothing with the previous product or service.

Yet opinion of the most prominent members here is that it is better to keep them under any control, then to just let them do what they want.


How bot can be better in doing such task/s then human? Time, when bots are managing signature campaigns was over few years ago, and now is again come back, just because services like YoBit do not want to adjust their advertising to basic forum guidelines. In this way even with the check being done, many bad posters manage to withdraw before being caught and banned.

I was talking about payout system, manually you have to check the posts and count how much people posted, update the sheet. Send payments to 300 people. But all this thing has been automated with Yobit, the only problem was controlling spam. That's why they hired Yahoo.

To me, both of them are shady exchanges characterized by volume manipulators and very few user bases. So, I don't see much difference between them

The system is actually bad, everything is automated and there is no control when submitting, paying or checking the quality of posts. Because of that, they need humans to repair all the chaos that YoBit system creates.

If everything is done manually the list of candidates would be much smaller, bad users wouldn't even get a chance to start spam. You are not too long in this forum, but few years ago there is more than one signature campaign with bot system, and spam levels were at least three to five times higher than today. Just imagine only one or two similar campaigns like this, what a forum would look like?