Bitcoin Forum

Other => Beginners & Help => Topic started by: LoyceV on October 10, 2019, 03:37:17 PM



Title: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on October 10, 2019, 03:37:17 PM
I still see users, including high ranking accounts, who use the Trust system incorrectly. For the Trust system to be properly functioning while being decentralized, it's crucial that as many users as possible understand the difference between "feedback" and "Trust lists". Confusingly, the forum uses the word "Trust" for both.

Once you fully understand the system, it's important to start using it:
  • Did you do a trade in which you risked funds? Leave feedback!
  • Did you see users who left accurate Trust feedback on many accounts? Add them to your Trust list!
Anyone can leave feedback, and anyone can customize their Trust list!

But first, keep reading, so you're sure you know the difference.

Since this is a beginners guide, I'll only cover the most important parts. I can't cover all details here, but even without knowing all the details, many people can improve how they use the Trust system.

I created TrustTestUser (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2692993) to aid in creating screenshots and links. Please don't consider this as leaving positive feedback to my alt, I don't intend to use this account for anything else.



Don't confuse your Trust list with feedback
Trust feedback: leave feedback to people you trust or don't trust. Or leave neutral comments.
Trust list: a list of people who's judgement on others you trust (username) or don't trust (~username).



Trust feedback
Trust feedback (Positive/Neutral/Negative) can be used to express your opinion about someone's trustworthiness. In other words: would you trust or have you trusted this user with your money?

Where to find it: Click on a username to go to the user's profile (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2692993), then click Trust (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2692993) to see their Trust summary (depending on the board it can also be shown under the username).
After clicking it, you're on the user's Trust summary (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2692993). Read the description per Type carefully:
      http://loyce.club/other/trust/newfeedback.png
Note that the description for Positive, Neutral and Negative is different than it was 4 months ago: it was changed when Trust Flags were introduced.

Positive (shown as +1)
  • If you made a small deal with someone, that doesn't deserve positive feedback.
  • If you made a deal in which you risked a substantial amount of money with someone, and all went well, that deserves positive feedback.
  • If someone is a nice guy (or girl), that doesn't deserve positive feedback.
  • If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

Neutral (shown as =1)
  • Use Neutral feedback for anything that doesn't mean someone can or can't be trusted. This can be good feedback, for instance when someone helped you out.
  • I think Neutral Feedback is currently undervalued on Bitcointalk. It's a great tool to de-escalate without drastic consequences. Please use it when appropriate.

Negative (shown as -1)
  • If you believe someone is a scammer, or someone is likely to scam, that deserves negative feedback. Please provide evidence.
  • If you really hate someone and he's a terrible troll, that does not deserve negative feedback.

The result after receiving feedback once for each Type:
      http://loyce.club/other/trust/oneofeach.png

Comments
Write a clear description. Keep it as short as possible without leaving things out. If your comment gets too long, create a topic in Reputation (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=129.0) or Scam Accusations (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0) to refer to.
Try to be objective. If you stick to the facts, people are more likely to take your feedback seriously than if you resort to name calling.

Use Reference links
A Reference link provides more background information about the Feedback. This is very helpful for others to assess whether or not your judgement was correct.
You can use a Webpage archive (https://archive.is/) to preserve evidence when needed for your Reference link.

Be the bigger man!
With great power comes great responsibility (source unknown (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_great_power_comes_great_responsibility#Origin_and_source)). Especially when you're on DefaultTrust (or if you want to be on DefaultTrust in the future), you shouldn't (ab)use that power by leaving (negative) feedback when someone does something you don't like. Your Sent feedback is what others use to judge your judgement.
If someone on the internet is mean to you: boo fucking hoo (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=boo%20fucking%20hoo)! Use the Ignore button, and forget about them.

Delete feedback
You can delete feedback by visiting the user's Trust sumary (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2692993). Any feedback left by you has a link to (Delete (http://)) it:
      http://loyce.club/other/trust/trustsummary.png
Please delete feedback when it's no longer appropriate. You can for instance replace old negative feedback by new neutral feedback when the situation justifies it. If the situation is the other way around, I suggest to leave the old neutral feedback, and add new negative feedback.

Do's and Don'ts
  • Don't leave positive feedback for your own alt account (use neutral comments for this).
  • Don't leave negative feedback when someone violates the forum rules (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=703657.0). Instead, use Report to moderator (http://) for rule violations.
  • Do leave mutual neutral feedback if you want to show which alt account(s) belong to you.
  • Don't leave (negative) feedback based on retaliation.
  • Don't leave (positive) feedback just because someone left it to you.

These are mere guidelines
Trust isn't moderated, but how you use it is your "business card" to the community. Use the above as guidelines only. It's meant to give you a general idea of what I consider good behaviour. It's also wise to ask yourself before leaving feedback: "Does my feedback make Bitcointalk a better place? And if it's negative: is it worth destroying someone's account and reputation over this?". Consider using Neutral feedback if neither Positive nor Negative is justified.

Trust Flags
I won't cover Trust Flags (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5153344.0) in details here (for now). The most important thing for creating, Supporting or Opposing Trust Flags is to read very carefully what it says before clicking. If something is incorrect, don't Support it!



Trust list
You should add users who left accurate feedback and have good Trust lists to your Trust list, and you should exclude users who leave inaccurate feedback.
This means your Trust list should be based on how you value the users' judgement on others, and it should not be based on whether or not you Trust those users (with money) or traded with them.
I encourage anyone to create their own custom Trust list (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust)! But before you do, please continue reading so you understand the implications.

Where to find it: Click on any user's profile (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile), then click Trust (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2692993), and click Trust settings (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust).
I recommend to keep DefaultTrust on the list so that you see feedback based on DT1 and DT2 members by default.
You can include any user by adding their name to your Trust list. And you can exclude any user by adding their name with a "~" in front of it. When you're done, click Update. Example:
      http://loyce.club/other/trust/trustlist.png
In the above example, you can see I have excluded cryptohunter, and included guitarplinker and NLNico. DefaultTrust is still on my Trust list too.
Unless you know what you're doing, you should leave the Trust depth at 2.

Implications of making a Trust list
Adding users to your Trust list has large recursive implications because the users you trust directly (Depth 0) make you trust the ones they trust (Depth 1), and the users they trust (Depth 2) (see details beyond beginner level (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124527.0)).
Once you have a custom Trust list, you'll see different Trust scores than users without a custom Trust list. You can always add ;dt to any URL to view the forum as if you didn't set a custom Trust list (see this example (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2692993;dt)).

Public record
Note that all Trust lists are public: theymos publishes (http://bitcointalk.org/trust.txt.xz) a weekly list, which I use for my Trust list viewer (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5102296.0).  I keep historic records (currently 38 weekly snapshots). You can use this tool, to asses which users you deem worthy to include on your own Trust list.
I don't censor data: your choices will remain visible even after you change it, so choose wisely.

Do's and Don'ts
  • Don't add users to your Trust list because they've added you!
  • Don't exclude users from your Trust list based on retaliation. It's okay to trust someone's judgement, even when he doesn't trust yours.
  • Don't add someone to your Trust list because you had a trade with them. Even if you trust them with money, that doesn't mean you should trust their judgement on others. I think this is the most common mistake made on Trust lists!
  • It's okay to include your alt-account on your own Trust list. This means you trust the feedback you left from that account. Example:
    Quote
    hilariousandco (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=397737) Trusts these users' judgement:
    7. hilariousetc (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=397737) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=397737)  +3 / =1 / -0) (1725 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/397737.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-05_Sat_17.00h/397737.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=hilariousetc))
  • Don't include your main account from your alt account(s). This could influence DT1-voting, and although that's not part of this guide, it's bad (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5128907.0).



DefaultTrust
DefaultTrust (or DT) has several Trust depth levels, and is set to depth 2 for anyone who didn't change it. This means that feedback left by all DT1 and DT2 members is by default shown for all users. Don't worry about this for now, it's not the main concern of this topic.
Any feedback left by you, always shows as Trusted to you. But it depends on other users' Trust settings whether or not it shows as Trusted to them.

DT1 voting
Depending on certain criteria (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.0) (which fall beyond the scope of this topic), creating your own Trust makes you eligible to vote for DT1-members (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;dtview), and/or you can be selected for DT1 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5111508.0) yourself. Once you're on DT1, the users included on your Trust list reach DT2, which means their feedback is shown by default too. That's a big responsibility, but as long as you (and the majority of other users too) use Trust properly, the voting system should work even if you don't fully understand it.


No spam
If you quote the entire OP, I'll delete your post.


Translations for local boards
  • Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian): [Guide] Cara Menggunakan Sistem Trust Dengan Benar (Versi Bahasa) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192114.0)
  • Deutsch (German): Anleitung für Anfänger zur korrekten Verwendung des Trust Systems ! (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192157.0)
  • Pyccкий (Russian): [Pyкoвoдcтвo] Cиcтeмa дoвepия (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192166.0)
  • Türkçe (Turkish): ⚡ Yeni Başlayanlar İçin ⚡ Trust Sistemi Kullanım Kılavuzu (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192175.0)
  • Português (Portuguese): [Guia] Como utilizar o sistema de Trust (confiança) do fórum corretamente (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192213.0)
  • Pilipinas: [GABAY] sa mga baguhan para sa wastong paggamit ng Trust system [LoyceV] (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192398.0)
  • Italiano (Italian): Re: [INFO] TRUST. Come funziona il sistema di feedback (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5043394.msg52756616#msg52756616)
  • Français: Guide pour débutants sur l'utilisation correcte du système de Trust par LoyceV (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5194958.0)
  • Hrvatski (Croatian): Vodič za pravilno korištenje Trust sustava (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5202182.0)
  • العربية (Arabic): دليل للإستخدام الصحيح لنظام الثقة (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5207247.0)
  • Română (Romanian): Ghidul incepatorilor pentru folosirea corecta a sistemului Trust [LoyceV] (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5216279.0)

I'd appreciate it if users translate this topic for their local boards, so we can get more users to use the Trust system the way it is designed.
If you're translating this topic, please post a link, so I can add them here.



Help me improve this topic, if anything is unclear or missing: please post it :)


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on October 11, 2019, 02:37:09 PM
Reserved

TODO:
Maybe you can add about "Trusted" and "Untrusted feedback". I think this is good to know how if Non-DT give Trust Feedback for a member, I appreciate  Abhiseshakana (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1878246) who gives additional info about Trusted and Untrusted feedback at Indonesian version (jump to post. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192114.msg52727752#msg52727752))


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: GSpgh on October 11, 2019, 02:57:12 PM
This is beyond ridiculous. If you need a guide this long to describe something as basic as trust feedback you know that most people are not going to use it, worse yet, probably use it incorrectly and spoil it for everyone. And this doesn't even include flags.

Good job describing it tho.


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Rikafip on October 11, 2019, 06:51:21 PM
This is beyond ridiculous. If you need a guide this long to describe something as basic as trust feedback you know that most people are not going to use it, worse yet, probably use it incorrectly and spoil it for everyone. And this doesn't even include flags.

Good job describing it tho.

It is not ridiculous at all, good guides are thorough and this is definitely a good one! And because it can be confusing for someone that is  relatively new like myself that is still trying to figure out all ins&outs of this forum, this kind of guide is needed, with each step explained.


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: GSpgh on October 11, 2019, 07:32:26 PM
It is not ridiculous at all, good guides are thorough and this is definitely a good one! And because it can be confusing for someone that is  relatively new like myself that is still trying to figure out all ins&outs of this forum, this kind of guide is needed, with each step explained.

Not the guide, the system is ridiculously complicated. The guide is great tho we shouldn't need it. It's great that you have the time and the patience, but probably less than 1 out of 1000 users will ever see this guide and even fewer will read it and a tiny fraction will understand or follow it.

Unless this thread is pinned, it will be forgotten in a week and even if it's pinned it's going to be just for one board's visitors. It needs to be added to the sites main menu, along with flag, merit, forum rules guides, whatever else is there that users are supposed to know. Even then it's mostly scammers and spammers gonna use it to their advantage. Regular users who come here to talk about crypto don't have interest for this royal court theatre.


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Vispilio on October 11, 2019, 08:02:01 PM
Agreed this needs to be at least pinned (including the local boards), so users have a chance to brush up on all the minute details as they get more involved with the forum dynamics,

I'll do the Turkish translation and post the link here.


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Lafu on October 11, 2019, 08:10:56 PM
@LoyceV

Here is the Translation into German !

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192157.new#new

I have done the thread also in the Beginners section there and i guess or hope that it will helps a few new and also long time Members and Users to understand it !

Great guide by the way  8)


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Vispilio on October 11, 2019, 11:40:49 PM
Turkish translation is ready LoyceV, you can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192175.0

I "trust" ;) it's going to clarify a lot of things for the local forums, if it can get sufficient visibility & attention in the beginners section...


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: bitmover on October 12, 2019, 12:03:57 AM

Hello LoyceV.

I was careful reading your guide, as I am translating it.

Take a look here:

Positive (shown as +1)
  • If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

Negative (shown as -1)
  • If you really hate someone and he's a terrible troll, that does not deserve negative feedback.


I know this is like a common practice here in bitcointalk, I know you are not inventing this. But I disagree with those points. Aren't they contradictory?

If you think someone is "cool", so yeah, give him a nice feedback, so everyone think he is trusted and he has a green +1 on his account. If you think someone is a troll, don't paint him red.

Shouldn't both situations have the same approuch?

IMO, both feedbacks, in those cases, should be NEUTRAL.

"Nice guy" or "I hate this troll", as neutral.
There are so many "nice guy" feedbacks with positives trusts here, as there are many "troller' with red feedbacks


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: masulum on October 12, 2019, 12:43:44 AM
Maybe you can add about "Trusted" and "Untrusted feedback". I think this is good to know how if Non-DT give Trust Feedback for a member, I appreciate  Abhiseshakana (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1878246) who gives additional info about Trusted and Untrusted feedback at Indonesian version (jump to post. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192114.msg52727752#msg52727752))


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: TryNinja on October 12, 2019, 01:07:10 AM
Portuguese translation: [Guia] Como utilizar o sistema de Trust (confiança) do fórum corretamente (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192213.0)

Good job, Loyce.


Title: Re: Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on October 12, 2019, 08:28:14 AM
@masulum @Lafu @madnessteat @Vispilio @TryNinja:
Thank you for translating, 5 translations within a day means a lot!



If you need a guide this long to describe something as basic as trust feedback you know that most people are not going to use it, worse yet, probably use it incorrectly and spoil it for everyone.
People are already using Trust incorrectly, which is why I made this guide. The Trust system isn't perfect, but the functionality it offers can be very useful when used in the right way. One of the reasons it's so "complicated", is because theymos wants it to be decentralized. The Trust system was much simpler when theymos hand-picked all DT1-members. That system wasn't perfect either, which is why theymos changed it. In the old system, most users didn't need to understand things because they'd never reach DT1 or DT2. Now, many more people get a vote.
Most of what I wrote down is kinda trivial anyway, but different people (especially with a worldwide mixture of different cultures) have different interpretations.

Not the guide, the system is ridiculously complicated. The guide is great tho we shouldn't need it. It's great that you have the time and the patience, but probably less than 1 out of 1000 users will ever see this guide and even fewer will read it and a tiny fraction will understand or follow it.
If someone uses Trust incorrectly, posting a link to this topic is much easier than explaining all the details. And that's the reason (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg52711939#msg52711939) I created this topic.



Positive (shown as +1)
  • If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.

Negative (shown as -1)
  • If you really hate someone and he's a terrible troll, that does not deserve negative feedback.
I know this is like a common practice here in bitcointalk, I know you are not inventing this. But I disagree with those points. Aren't they contradictory?

If you think someone is "cool", so yeah, give him a nice feedback, so everyone think he is trusted and he has a green +1 on his account. If you think someone is a troll, don't paint him red.
I think we mean the same thing. I didn't say to give positive trust when someone is a nice guy, I said you can leave positive feedback if you believe he can be Trusted.
Example:
I left this positive feedback to micgoossens (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1067333), even though I never traded with him:
Quote
micgoossens has hosted several "Bitcoin price prediction games", and pays the prizes out of his own pocket.
As far as I've seen, he has paid all of them. Several more prediction games are still running, and I trust he'll pay those too.
Please join, even though it reduces my odds :P
Although micgoossen is a nice guy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5189667.msg52636576#msg52636576), that's not why I left the feedback. I left it, because I believe he's true to his word.
As another example, I received neutral feedback from Devawnm367 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1713155):
Quote
LoyceV helped me generate a Vanity wallet!!! I have wanted to do so for years!!! He did it in a matter of a few minutes! Plus a very trustworthy Member If it was anyone else I would have 2nd guessed it Thanks LoyceV!
I believe those two examples use the correct Type of feedback.

To take away all confusion, I've added this:
Positive (shown as +1)
  • If someone is a nice guy (or girl), that doesn't deserve positive feedback.

"Nice guy" or "I hate this troll", as neutral.
There are so many "nice guy" feedbacks with positives trusts here, as there are many "troller' with red feedbacks
Agreed!



Maybe you can add about "Trusted" and "Untrusted feedback". I think this is good to know how if Non-DT give Trust Feedback for a member, I appreciate  Abhiseshakana (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1878246) who gives additional info about Trusted and Untrusted feedback at Indonesian version (jump to post. (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192114.msg52727752#msg52727752))
Good suggestion, I've added it to my TODO (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5191802.msg52725465#msg52725465).


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Yatsan on October 12, 2019, 12:29:36 PM
I will make the Filipino translation of it, I will post the link later :)

edit: Here is the link of the translation :)
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5192398.msg52737619#msg52737619


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: 1miau on October 12, 2019, 05:25:44 PM
As already mentioned:

Outstanding guide, it's a very good read!



Positive (shown as +1)
  • If you made a small deal with someone, that doesn't deserve positive feedback.
  • If someone is a nice guy (or girl), that doesn't deserve positive feedback.
  • If you made a deal in which you risked a substantial amount of money with someone, and all went well, that deserves positive feedback.
  • If you believe someone can be trusted, even when you didn't trade with him, that too deserves positive feedback.
To determine the trustworthiness of an user I'm always recommending to mention the risked amount of money directly in the trust comments (can be in USD or in BTC). While I use the reference link more as a "proof" that my feedback is valid and the deal happened, I prefer to write the risked amount also directly in the comments. That way it's very easy for potential trading partners to have a quick look on how much money the user risked for his deals.
I often come across vague descriptions where I have to search quite long on how much money was on risk and displaying that directly in the comments would help a lot to save time and still get an accurate impression of the user.

But sometimes it's a difficult question at which point the risked amount of money is "substantial", so I recommend to be a little bit more liberal here and give positive trust. Then it's important to mention the risked amount to avoid many confusions and indicate it. People should be aware that more than the risked amount of previous trades with that user might put them on risk getting scammed, so I consider that part as very important. (of course, an user can also scam you when less money is involved than in previous trades).

Before the last trust update, there was a box for "risked amount of BTC" and I'm still hoping that'll come back.


And maybe you can add a link below that part (about positive / neutral / negative feedback) to the community list collected by xtraelv, when negative trust is appropriate and when it's not:
Discussion about acceptable and unacceptable behavior. Community values. DT (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099391.msg49306851#msg49306851).


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: masulum on October 14, 2019, 01:50:54 AM
Trust FeedBack and Trust List Guide in Image. I hope with this image, member more easy to understand.

https://i.ibb.co/9HNKPGC/trustlist.png
[HD] Direct link: https://i.ibb.co/9HNKPGC/trustlist.png






Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: fillippone on October 14, 2019, 02:31:26 PM
Italian Translation:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5043394.msg52756616#msg52756616

I inserted the translation as a post on the existing Trust related thread on the Italian Board.
Thread moderator is going to edit all the relevant information on the OP.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: CryptoRobert on October 14, 2019, 03:26:16 PM
This is truly an excellent guide to the use of the Trust system, and for the first time in years I've *almost* understood how it works.
LoyceV has well done a much needed job.
But I can't but agree with what others have pointed out, that the Trust system of the forum is in itself too complicated to be widely adopted - which is leading to a quite unsolvable problem: to really work well, the Trust system should be widely used by most of the community, but it being so complicated this will likely never happen, unless a way is found to make it a bit simpler.
I'll make some attempts to start to use it.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Rmcdermott927 on October 14, 2019, 03:35:22 PM
This guide is absolutely amazing.   Hopefully forum members both old and new adhere to it.   Things have been very civil lately and it seems like drama has been kept to a minimum.  Merit left.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: bitmover on October 16, 2019, 01:43:51 PM
Is there a way to check my profile trust as  if I never used the trust list?


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: TryNinja on October 16, 2019, 01:46:35 PM
Is there a way to check my profile trust as  if I never used the trust list?

You mean through DT? Just add ;dt at the end of the url.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on October 16, 2019, 01:53:34 PM
Is there a way to check my profile trust as  if I never used the trust list?
You mean through DT? Just add ;dt at the end of the url.
You beat me to it, it's actually included in the OP:
You can always add ;dt to any URL to view the forum as if you didn't set a custom Trust list (see this example (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2692993;dt)).


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Kalemder on October 16, 2019, 02:20:44 PM
Thank you @LoyceV. Very useful topic.

Trust system is not known enough. Difficult to understand for new members. In fact, it is difficult for many users to understand.
So I prepared a guide in the local section before. You prepared it in more detail, so thank you.

Trust List - Trust Feedback - Trust Member (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5179926.0)

Trust Flags - DT Member Discussion Area - Trust System (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5183429.0)

Trust system works healthy if more users are active.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on October 19, 2019, 08:00:51 AM
In the past week, these users have created a new Trust list:

Week 40 (2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h)
NEW 843439: bitcoin-shark (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=843439) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=843439)  +0 / =0 / -1) (18 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/843439.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/843439.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=bitcoin-shark))
NEW 849797: Loganota (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=849797) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=849797)  neutral) (142 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/849797.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/849797.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Loganota))
NEW 857883: Yatsan (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=857883) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=857883) awaiting update) (64 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/857883.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/857883.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Yatsan))
NEW 870608: th3nolo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=870608) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=870608) awaiting update) (44 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/870608.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/870608.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=th3nolo))
NEW 925535: Tob96 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=925535) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=925535) awaiting update) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/925535.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Tob96))
NEW 938506: Jianx (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=938506) Banned! (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=938506) awaiting update) (12 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/938506.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/938506.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Jianx))
NEW 978304: Alveus (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=978304) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=978304) awaiting update) (55 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/978304.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/978304.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Alveus))
NEW 1117066: Smartprofit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1117066) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1117066)  neutral) (265 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/1117066.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/1117066.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Smartprofit))
NEW 1174868: alegotardo (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1174868) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1174868)  neutral) (186 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/1174868.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/1174868.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=alegotardo))
NEW 1180723: Apaxy (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1180723) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1180723) awaiting update) (1 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/1180723.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/1180723.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Apaxy))
NEW 1219334: Imperial_Hash (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1219334) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1219334)  +2 / =0 / -0) (30 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/1219334.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/1219334.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Imperial_Hash))
NEW 1764779: Lorna111 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=1764779) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=1764779) awaiting update) (11 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/1764779.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/1764779.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=Lorna111))
NEW 2016507: itoybtc (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2016507) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2016507) awaiting update) (10 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/2016507.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/2016507.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=itoybtc))
NEW 2445602: asianguy845 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2445602) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2445602) awaiting update) (0 Merit earned) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/2445602.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=asianguy845))
NEW 2692446: saiga31 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=2692446) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=2692446) awaiting update) (1 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/2692446.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/2692446.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=saiga31))
Wiped 350984: enhu (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=350984) (Trust: (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=350984)  neutral) (1 Merit earned (http://loyce.club/Merit/history/350984.html)) (Trust list (http://loyce.club/trust/2019-10-19_Sat_06.17h/350984.html)) (BPIP (https://bpip.org/profile.aspx?p=enhu))


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Halab on October 22, 2019, 11:26:29 AM
It seems that french members have not seen this topic, or they think they have a perfect knowledge of the Trust system (which would surprise me), so I took the time to translate your guide into french.
It's right here (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5194958.msg52838635#msg52838635).

Edit :
I realized that the title was a little too long and your name was truncated. I changed the title to " Guide pour débutants sur l'utilisation correcte du système de Trust par LoyceV"


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on November 02, 2019, 04:39:25 PM
Implications of making a Trust list
Adding users to your Trust list has large recursive implications because the users you trust directly (Depth 0) make you trust the ones they trust (Depth 1), and the users they trust (Depth 2) (see details beyond beginner level (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124527.0)).
I've updated my Personal Full Trust Depth viewer for all users (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5124527.0), this is helpful to see the large recursive implications of a custom Trust list. I think most users don't recognize many of the users on their Depth 1, let alone their Depth 2.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Steamtyme on November 08, 2019, 12:51:55 PM
I've been trying to think up a video to add to my list for "trust" and "feedback". I actually bumped it further back, after account recovery in my plan as I felt it deserved more time and thought than a lot of the subjects I'm trying to cover. My plan does entail so far linking to your topic for the in-depth reading on the system for people beyond my video. It works well, as I've felt we've had the same ideas, and thoughts on problems people run into confusing the 2 systems. It's probably 2 weeks away, but when I get a rough cut together, I'll PM you if that's fine to get your opinion.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on November 12, 2019, 12:00:43 PM
I'll PM you if that's fine to get your opinion.
Sure, go ahead :)


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Rikafip on November 17, 2019, 03:56:45 PM
I made Croatian translation of your guide. Here is the link so you can add it to the local board translations

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5202182.0


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: dkbit98 on November 23, 2019, 10:51:59 AM
Suggestion:
- Is there a way we can see 'private feedback' feature?

It can be a way to have personal private feedback for members that would not be visible to other members.
For example, if I want to create feedback to specific member that only I can see, and it should not be public.
If I decide to make it public, I would click on public button.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on November 23, 2019, 08:48:45 PM
Suggestion:
- Is there a way we can see 'private feedback' feature?
This isn't the right place to make forum suggestions: you can make a topic in Meta (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0) if you want.

Quote
It can be a way to have personal private feedback for members that would not be visible to other members.
For example, if I want to create feedback to specific member that only I can see, and it should not be public.
If I decide to make it public, I would click on public button.
So basically you want to have a field to take notes on a profile. I don't think it's likely to be implemented, you can use neutral feedback for that (or your own notes somewhere on your computer if you want it to be private).


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: blurryeyed on November 24, 2019, 01:02:33 AM
Suggestion:
- Is there a way we can see 'private feedback' feature?

No. But it is possible to see which users have deleted their own posts in an effort hide their dodgy past behavior, like you have done - even way back to 10th December 2017 when Yobit created your account.

Would you like me to show you yours?

You lying trust abuser.

Edited as per request:

I believe this is a fine example of trust abuse:

https://i.postimg.cc/bYFTXsYP/Trustabuse.png (https://postimages.org/)

Source:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1064824.msg20344174#msg20344174

Calling out scammers & accounts that have been used to promote them comes at a cost, I realize that & have no problem with it, but for them to go unpunished for such blatant trust abuse is very disappointing - especially when accounts erase their posts to hide their past like dkbit98 did.

It's a shame there's no tool available to see the deleted posts when they go back so far (in the case of dkbit98 nearly two years ago) - do you know if forum admins are able to retrieve them?


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on November 24, 2019, 07:46:41 AM
You lying trust abuser.
Your post is off-topic, except (maybe) the part about trust abuse. Can you edit in an example of what you believe is Trust abuse so it's on-topic again?


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: blurryeyed on November 25, 2019, 03:45:04 PM
You lying trust abuser.
Your post is off-topic, except (maybe) the part about trust abuse. Can you edit in an example of what you believe is Trust abuse so it's on-topic again?

Done. Sorry about that.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Zwei on December 05, 2019, 06:00:27 PM
Arabic Translation: دليل للإستخدام الصحيح لنظام الثقة (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5207247.0)

VecyoL once said: Bump!

Why are looking here LoyceV


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: 2double0 on December 24, 2019, 08:52:24 PM
What can be done when a DT abuses their trust?
And what about trust ratings that are being given for spamming?
Isn't the trust system solely for risked money purposes where we give a rating to someone when either of us risked money or got some money from the other party as loan or through any trade? Why are other things included in trust feedbacks?


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Steamtyme on December 24, 2019, 09:41:01 PM
What can be done when a DT abuses their trust?
First you make an appeal to the individual involved either via PM, or by creating a reputation thread. If that goes nowhere the thread can serve as a discussion in the open about whether the offence deserves a negative. Following this you can appeal to individuals that have included them in their trust lists, to request they be removed. If that all fails there really isn't much to be done, people can tag freely as they see fit, it's up to the community whether they make DT or not.
Quote
And what about trust ratings that are being given for spamming?
These aren't Negative tag offences. People should if they feel it necessary tag neutral in this instance. theymos has stated spamming and such should be handled by moderators and admins.
Quote
Isn't the trust system solely for risked money purposes where we give a rating to someone when either of us risked money or got some money from the other party as loan or through any trade? Why are other things included in trust feedbacks?
Not entirely, it has to do with feedback about the individuals, or if you perceive them to be a risk to scam. Neutrals, probably my favorite admission is great for "personal" preference notations. Positives are handed out similar to negatives, more inline with I this user is a great resource or helpful to the community - though I would rather just see people include them in their trust list as opposed to just positive feedback for those cases.

Hope that helps.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: eddie13 on December 31, 2019, 07:59:46 PM
I have been thinking for a while that it would be fun, and possibly even productively educational, to create a big online test/quiz about all of the various systems, etiquette, and history of Bitcointalk..

I have looked a few times at "free online quiz makers" but they all have too many limits on how many questions you can make and how many responses can be made etc..

I think a beginner level test would be good to include just the most pertinent and commonly useful knowledge, and then a very difficult advanced test that most users could be proud to get even 90% on for a good challenge especially if many users would be interested in submitting questions/answers multiple choice style to get a wide range of questions..


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Coyster on December 31, 2019, 11:01:48 PM
I have been thinking for a while that it would be fun, and possibly even productively educational, to create a big online test/quiz about all of the various systems, etiquette, and history of Bitcointalk.
It will indeed be fun, and it will be a nice test on who really has in depth knowledge of some of the policies used in and around the forum, and also it would trigger users to find out more than they already know about the history of the forum.
I'm sure there will be a lot of high ranked users that'll be willing to assist you in this, coming up with possible questions is one way they can be of help, giving out merits to users who performed excellently is another way, etc.
especially if many users would be interested in submitting questions/answers multiple choice style to get a wide range of questions..
I'm sure they will, it all sounds interesting, so why not. Happy new year to you mate.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: eddie13 on December 31, 2019, 11:13:00 PM
so why not

Probably need someone to make a website for the quiz or find something that will work..
You have any ideas?


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: Coyster on January 01, 2020, 06:09:23 AM
You have any ideas?
I'm not really good in creating a website(though I'll make enquiries)but I can also help in other ways. How about starting a new thread, you could probably get a forum user who can get this problem solved, don't you think.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on January 01, 2020, 11:00:23 AM
I have been thinking for a while that it would be fun, and possibly even productively educational, to create a big online test/quiz about all of the various systems, etiquette, and history of Bitcointalk..
If you create a topic for this, you can use Merit as an incentive for correct answers, but that means the answer will be instantly visible.

Another thing that would be good, is if more users get involved in the Flag system. Currently, there are only 2027 (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/personal/) users who Created, Supported, Opposed or are the Subject of a Flag.
It would be good if more different users take the time to pick a Flag (http://loyce.club/trust/flags/221.html), read through the Reference thread, and Support or Oppose the Flag. Currently, only very few users are active in judging Flags, which makes it quite centralized.


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: HBKMusiK on January 09, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
I have translated and posted your topic on Romanian local-board:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5216279
I'll make sure to keep it updated if there's any in the future.
Good job!


Title: Re: LoyceV's Beginners guide to correct use of the Trust system
Post by: LoyceV on January 18, 2020, 09:05:08 AM
Bump