Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin => Bitcoin Discussion => Topic started by: ChrisPop on October 13, 2019, 11:11:46 AM



Title: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: ChrisPop on October 13, 2019, 11:11:46 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Royse777 on October 13, 2019, 11:14:28 AM
In my opinion it's both.
Think about the people who are holding it - they believe it store of value. And it is indeed. The bitcoin a user bought for $600 each now they value grown 10x+ times. This could be 100x without any doubt.

And talking about payment - as long as we will have the fees in control it's very convenient.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: soadrlz on October 13, 2019, 11:22:29 AM
With all this price volatility,bitcoin is just "digital gold".
Remove the price volatility and bitcoin will become a major retail payment tool. ;D


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: chaoscoinz on October 13, 2019, 11:40:57 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
 In my opinion, I'm hodling for dear life, till the ship sinks, I'll stay with the band for the last song and dance.  There's nothing wrong with making a few transactions for retail purposes, or other needs for services and what not. I agree that Bitcoin needs more infrastructure and institutional adoption. I thought that Libra would answer that call, but it hasn't even made it out the gates yet, but what a horse,Go sea-biscuit!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Pearls Before Swine on October 13, 2019, 11:41:43 AM
In my opinion it's both.
It is absolutely both, BUT...bitcoin always has been more of an investment (not necessarily a store of value, since its so volatile) than a form of money.  Just look at all the threads and posts on bitcointalk.  Most of them are not asking about how bitcoin can be spent or what wonderful things members have purchased with it.  They're all about price predictions, TA, and how to buy bitcoin.  That ought to paint a picture that answers op's question.

Bitcoin is never going to be a good payment method until its volatility decreases drastically.  It also will never get used for that purpose unless businesses start accepting it from their customers.  Even then I think people will still want to just hold it in the hopes that they'll make a profit.  That mindset is very well ingrained in bitcoiners right now.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: CryptoBry on October 13, 2019, 11:43:07 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC. What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

We know that Bitcoin can be store of value as well as a currency (medium for buy and sell) which anybody can take advantage of. Now, how come it is the store of value that is given more emphasis? Maybe because many of those who have Bitcoin are holding it in anticipation that its price will soon go up...in other words it has become the big tool for speculation. Since I can not speculate on the real gold, I have my eyes fixed on Bitcoin instead. I am saving all the Bitcoin I can get because I am preparing my hoard for the possible bull run in 2020 because of the halving scheduled middle of the year.

Now, there is nothing wrong with speculations because in the first many people are getting into Bitcoin so they can speculate and if there is no anticipation of its value to soar many will not be in Bitcoin, in the first place. The only thing is that too much speculative hoarding can mean that less and less business will go to the many merchants who decided to accept Bitcoin as part of the adoption we are all dreaming of.

There seems to be a tug between these two concerns (store of value or medium of exchange).


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: samcrypto on October 13, 2019, 11:57:22 AM
In my opinion it's both.
Think about the people who are holding it - they believe it store of value. And it is indeed. The bitcoin a user bought for $600 each now they value grown 10x+ times. This could be 100x without any doubt.

And talking about payment - as long as we will have the fees in control it's very convenient.
Depends on you actually because anyone can use their bitcoin for payment, transferring of money but a lot of people consider bitcoin as a store of value because its expensive and an easy prodit if you treat it right. Bitcoin is moving better than a stock market, or better than a penny stocks, investors knows that.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: kryptqnick on October 13, 2019, 12:05:21 PM
In my opinion it's both.
It is absolutely both, BUT...bitcoin always has been more of an investment (not necessarily a store of value, since its so volatile) than a form of money.  Just look at all the threads and posts on bitcointalk.  Most of them are not asking about how bitcoin can be spent or what wonderful things members have purchased with it.  They're all about price predictions, TA, and how to buy bitcoin.  That ought to paint a picture that answers op's question.

Bitcoin is never going to be a good payment method until its volatility decreases drastically.  It also will never get used for that purpose unless businesses start accepting it from their customers.  Even then I think people will still want to just hold it in the hopes that they'll make a profit.  That mindset is very well ingrained in bitcoiners right now.
I also agree that it can be both and is currently mainly the first one. One problem with it being money is indeed volatility. However, if we look at the chart, Bitcoin is actually way more stable now than it used to be. Its volatility is decreasing significantly, so we can hope that one day this won't be a problem. Another problem is, however, going to get more and more serious with time. It's scalability. Bitcoin's number of transactions blockchain can handle per second is very low for mass adoption, so we are going to need some user-friendly and not sacrificing the main features of Bitcoin off-chain solutions if we want it to be possible.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Oasisman on October 13, 2019, 12:07:38 PM
IMO, I dont think of any good reason why we need to spend our Bitcoin to buy something or to pay for a service, except for the mass adoption, or someone who had a trouble using his fiat/credit/debit card (which rarely happens). We can say It's both, but majority choose to store it waiting for the value to increase in the future.

I think, this could also be the reason why other merchants/big business entities losses their interest in accepting cryptos as a mode of payment, knowing a lot of people is considering them as a store of value more than a currency used for paying something.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Darooghe on October 13, 2019, 12:20:12 PM
To be a store of value, a good should also have a real use, gold is used in electronics and jewelry, or at least be traded frequently. also gold does some things better than Bitcoin. Gold is not vulnerable to social attacks that can steal the name and the value associated with 'gold' and re-assign it to a new thing, as Bitcoin core have done. Gold also does not require the constant application of energy via PoW that Bitcoin requires in order to keep the entire gold supply secure. Gold also has a track record of being money, going back literally thousands of years. So if you buy gold, you really do have better assurances about your purchasing power being preserved.

Now that BTC intermittently has median transaction fees above $10-$20, BTC may even struggle to compete with gold on the portability front. Bitcoin is a p2p electronic cash system. This is what Bitcoin excels at, and has advantage. Bitcoin is only useful as a store of value to the degree it's useful as a cash system. thereby Bitcoin must remain a means of payment to be a store of value.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Red-Apple on October 13, 2019, 12:26:58 PM
it doesn't only have to be one. in fact being a currency (or method of payment) could guarantee it being a store of value. in other words in my opinion one can not exist without the other. for example if you say bitcoin is not a currency and is only a store of value you immediately zero the value of bitcoin so it automatically stops being a store of value too.
but when it is a currency and people use it for payments it gains value and it gives it the ability to be also a store of value.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Sebas.tian on October 13, 2019, 12:44:32 PM
Candidly speaking, I will say that; Bitcoin is more of a payment method than a store of value, reason be that; the aim of the creator was to make an alternative means for online transactions. Currently many have also made comments that; Bitcoin is a store of value which I also totally agreed to. Bitcoin has the identity of be a store of value and also a online payment method.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: blckhawk on October 13, 2019, 12:50:32 PM
With all this price volatility,bitcoin is just "digital gold".
Remove the price volatility and bitcoin will become a major retail payment tool. ;D

Well, the problem with that statement is it won't happen. No one controls the price action to have minimal changes. It all happens when some whales want to or there's just major sell-offs.

For me, it's more of combination of investment and gamble. You invest in the technology since you believe on its success in the future generations. But looking on short-term trades, it's more of a gamble since the risks are high yet rewards are promising.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: GreatArkansas on October 13, 2019, 12:52:53 PM
(...)
What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
Just treat bitcoin like how you treat your fiat.
It is like also your money in bank account where you can able to withdraw it. But there are difference.
Bitcoin still able to spend, remember that there already services/entities that are starting to accept Bitcoin.

Spending their BTC based on their needs for sure and if they invested on Bitcoin. Like for example, you have job and your salary is paid via bitcoin, then for sure you will spend it to buy your needs/wants. So for me, it can be store of value and method of payment too.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: enhu on October 13, 2019, 01:00:49 PM


I think because there are two fees to pay when you are about to by something out of BTC, there is the transaction fee and the value of the item which is why I also might not spend a bit of BTC else where unless its necessary to do so. This I guess is the purpose of those debit/credit CARD projects created in previous years like the MCO or the Tenx which I have no idea what happen.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Eclipse26 on October 13, 2019, 01:27:38 PM
Bitcoin can be both a store value and a method of payment. It's just the matter of perception of every individual. Thinking wisely, it's more practical to store bitcoin and wait for it's price the increase. 'Cause unlike fiat, it is more volatile and you can really earn money with it. We can't deny that most of us here want to earn profit that's why we tend to store it first and when we already gained profit, we could just spend it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: febriyana on October 13, 2019, 01:56:19 PM
I see Bitcoin is more good as alternate payment.
If storing value i don't see intrisic value in Bitcoin, Bitcoin is still same foundation like fiat, that is based trust.
If you want store value, i recommended buy real Gold Bar.
That is have intrisic value, can't duplicate or create and have limited supply.
For me Bitcoin is still payment method, alternate digital payment like paypal, where other digital payment is centralized and have limited rules from government.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: lighpulsar07 on October 13, 2019, 02:01:33 PM
Well for me its method of payment since bitcoin give us convenience since it has reasonable fees unlike in payment/remittance which has huge fees which almost covers the actual money that you've paying/sending.

In terms of store of value? Yes indeed it is store of value since the early adopters who bought bitcoin in early days have the 10-20x of the value now.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: AniviaBtc on October 13, 2019, 02:05:07 PM
In my opinion it's both.
Think about the people who are holding it - they believe it store of value. And it is indeed. The bitcoin a user bought for $600 each now they value grown 10x+ times. This could be 100x without any doubt.

And talking about payment - as long as we will have the fees in control it's very convenient.

Yes, it should be both so that it'll be balance. Sometimes we need to use bitcoin as a payment method because it has a lot of advantage. Like it is very secure and can use in many easy transactions. Also stored of value, it is like waiting for the right season. Always being patient and mindful in transaction is the key.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: lepbagong on October 13, 2019, 02:12:18 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
I think what you have said has indeed come true.
that the intention to hold bitcoin is for the long term when they feel the price is very profitable compared to when they bought it.
but it seems that not all countries can be free to use bitcoin for transactions, so maybe every country will be different.

It is clear that people will exchange bitcoin if it is very urgent, save more and wait for the right time to benefit.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: minersday on October 13, 2019, 02:51:01 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

The true intentions of Satoshi for the development of Bitcoin according the whitepaper of Bitcoin was to be method of payment that provides people the financial freedom.  But as a result of the increase in the value of Bitcoin, people now see bitcoin as a store of value rather than a method of payment. In order for Bitcoin to be a method of payment rather store of value, the ecosystem of Bitcoin needs massive adoption of the use of it for daily transactions from smaller transaction to bigger financial transactions.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: lionheart78 on October 13, 2019, 02:58:59 PM
BTC function as money so we can say that it has both.  For now it may not be a good store of value because of its high fluctuation, optimistic speculator say it is a good store of value because of its possibility to increase in price in the future but currently is on a decline after hitting its ATH.  My country recognized Bitcoin as method of payment since it is used to pay bills, and buy items with the use of third party apps. These two is one of the characteristics of Money and bitcoin as I stated earlier is a form and functioning as money.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: ChrisPop on October 13, 2019, 03:03:07 PM
To be a store of value, a good should also have a real use, gold is used in electronics and jewelry, or at least be traded frequently. also gold does some things better than Bitcoin. Gold is not vulnerable to social attacks that can steal the name and the value associated with 'gold' and re-assign it to a new thing, as Bitcoin core have done. Gold also does not require the constant application of energy via PoW that Bitcoin requires in order to keep the entire gold supply secure. Gold also has a track record of being money, going back literally thousands of years. So if you buy gold, you really do have better assurances about your purchasing power being preserved.

Now that BTC intermittently has median transaction fees above $10-$20, BTC may even struggle to compete with gold on the portability front. Bitcoin is a p2p electronic cash system. This is what Bitcoin excels at, and has advantage. Bitcoin is only useful as a store of value to the degree it's useful as a cash system. thereby Bitcoin must remain a means of payment to be a store of value.

Gold is a precious metal indeed and has some uses, but its biggest downside is the portability. You can't go to the market or a coffee shop caring in your bagpack multiple gold bullions. And how are you going to pay with it? Cut it in multiple minuscule pieces?  :D

Gold fails the portability test and regarding it being a store of value look what happened in 2008 when crisis hit the world. I'll tell you: 30% DROP! Is that a "safer" asset? Hell no. At least this is my opinion. After all it is just a metal with special properties and what if scientists will find a way to produce it artificially combining multiple elements?  ???


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Distraction on October 13, 2019, 03:13:22 PM
I think people prefer both of them. Some people prefer using Bitcoin as an investment and don't want to use it like fiat money much. Some people don't see Bitcoin as investment and they just want to use it on activities like shopping etc. . By the way, I prefer using it both ways. :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Ucy on October 13, 2019, 03:18:26 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

I don't see why it can't both store of value and "method of payments". I believe Bitcoin can actually be both today without much problems.
I have witnessed lots of notable non-crypto people in the past accepting Bitcoin on social media and YouTube. All of a sudden they stop talking about it. Whether they still accept it or not I can't tell. I am pretty sure they became secretive due to fear of something. If you could promote Bitcoin alittle bit on those platforms and assure people that no one will harm them for using Bitcoin, i think they will start accepting it again. You can draw such people to this community so that they learn how to use Bitcoin with peace of mind


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Genemind on October 13, 2019, 03:40:40 PM
People do the same depending on their needs. Some people do have their holdings and allocated enough money to be used as a payment. There are also traders who spend their earnings to buy and pay for their needs while some people are just keeping their Bitcoins from spending. We all have a way of handling our Bitcoins for our own purposes but it's important that we'll keep some for our future profit when the price gets better.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: fiulpro on October 13, 2019, 03:56:05 PM
I think it's depending on the person so as how they use it as , investment , payment is something that goes well with Bitcoins and the circumstances plays a great role in it , Bitcoins value is volatile thus when the price goes up people can benefit from it , making it an amazing investment and also it's cheaper to send money overseas with respect to Bitcoins and with the lightning network it's something that we can do instantly therefore I think the answer is both.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: teosanru on October 13, 2019, 04:04:37 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
You know this is the problem with every deflationary currency which operate against the value of goods meaning that goods get cheaper each day. This way people would always maintain a hoarding tendency which mean they would rather end up storing it than using it as currency. This continuous appreciation in the value of bitcoin is making it much more dearer to holders thus making it more of a store of payment than a currency.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: ardentvolcanoes on October 13, 2019, 04:27:00 PM
People do the same depending on their needs. Some people do have their holdings and allocated enough money to be used as a payment. There are also traders who spend their earnings to buy and pay for their needs while some people are just keeping their Bitcoins from spending. We all have a way of handling our Bitcoins for our own purposes but it's important that we'll keep some for our future profit when the price gets better.
Bitcoiners have different views regarding to this matter, and like what you just said traders use bitcoin as their store assets and a base for their trading businesses, some of them are using bitcoin earnings to pay bills or convert it to fiat for their everyday used. Since bitcoin can be use to pay online or
to transact online there's people who are enjoying this benefits. It's a two way side depends from how end users treated it's holdings.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: CLS63 on October 13, 2019, 04:36:06 PM
People have different preferences. So, they use Bitcoin as a store of value like gold or any fiat money and they also use Bitcoin on many places as a payment method. On this point, Bitcoin carries similarities with fiat money.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: JohnBitCo on October 13, 2019, 04:58:14 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

Bitcoin is basically a currency and it should not be a store of value like Gold. But currently bitcoin is being used as an asset and therefore it is more of a store of value. In future, we can see bitcoin will be the major method of payment but mass adoption will take considerable time.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: hulla on October 13, 2019, 05:21:35 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
We cant all have the same point of view and to be realistic using bitcoin as a store of value doesn't mean bitcoin won't adopt as a payment method by the store owner or merchant. However, the major problem we have now is people ignorant about bitcoin and some government not legalizing bitcoin.
With that been said, I used bitcoin as a store of value and I also use it as a currency but it all depends on expense.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Mulann2 on October 13, 2019, 05:27:39 PM
Mostly use as store of assets than means of payment, most people are into btc to maximize profit as much as they can, if there are people who use as means of payment, they are very few for now, however, btc can be regarded as both because it serves both purpose.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: bhabygrim on October 13, 2019, 06:21:45 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
Well it isn't new there are so many reason why people would prefer to hold BTC rather than spending or using it as a payment method.
First is the price fluctuation people who bought crypto or Bitcoin do it because they want to earn from it not to use it as a payment method.
Second is the fee from sending crypto and even the delay period of it.
Most of us would choose to pay in cash rather than crypto because it is way more faster .


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: ChrisPop on October 13, 2019, 06:30:30 PM
I think what you have said has indeed come true.
that the intention to hold bitcoin is for the long term when they feel the price is very profitable compared to when they bought it.
but it seems that not all countries can be free to use bitcoin for transactions, so maybe every country will be different.

It is clear that people will exchange bitcoin if it is very urgent, save more and wait for the right time to benefit.

Glad that you're sharing my vision! I think that countries which don't adopt Bitcoin as a mean of payment once it has been established in more developed countries will face some drastic drawdowns. Like the efficiency of Bitcoin transactions is well-known and this will surely be an advantage for some states. No need to wait for "banking" opening or go through a lot of bureaucracy to get a payment done. Payments will be smooth and fast, thus saving time - which ultimately translates to money in the financial world.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: YuginKadoya on October 13, 2019, 07:05:08 PM
In my opinion, it will surely depend on that person if he might think about Bitcoin as a stored value, Or a means for transaction only well you can truly do whatever you want with Bitcoin and I think like myself I prefer to use Bitcoin as both Transaction base and asset wise, Well I am using it in buying things when the price is too high or we are having an All-time high and just storing it and buying some more when the price is in the midst of dropping, like what happened recently Bitcoin dropped to $8300 USD and right now I am not using it as a means of transaction.

I guess different people will surely have a different opinion, the answer will surely depend on a person if what he likes to do best with Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies if it is working for him or the community.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Youghoor on October 13, 2019, 10:51:29 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

Looking at how people in the crypto space  see Bitcoin, it is officially an asset of value rather than an alternative avenue for making payment. Bitcoin always remain a store of value even if it gains mass adoption. People will hardly see Bitcoin as a method of payment . People will prefer to store and hold onto their Bitcoin since its value might be worth twice its initial amount now.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: boltz on October 14, 2019, 12:57:23 AM
Both represents Bitcoin without a doubt. I personally use it as a store of value due to the finite number of Bitcoin as mathematically speaking it should increase in value every year and this is what is happening even if we have the high volatility which is a part of the Bitcoin reputation as well. From time to time I use it as a method of payment too because hey this is why it as value right ? to spend it when it reaches the value you want because without spending , I doubt it will be more than a collectable currency.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: meanwords on October 14, 2019, 02:12:22 AM
There's no absolute answer but I know that people can do whatever they want to their Bitcoin because they have the freedom to do so. That's what's great about Bitcoin because it is not limiting us to what we can do. We can use it as a store of value, trading like a stock, or as a way of payment. People can do just what they want and that is the reason why Bitcoin is popular.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Oneandpure on October 14, 2019, 02:54:19 AM
Using bitcoin as method payment for store I think best ideas how to get faster for every transaction, still little store have using bitcoin as method payment for selling in their store, just open wallet and access to send bitcoin to store wallet, will be easy without use cash money where for tourist never have change their money first to buy won your store, many traveler look happy if many store accepted bitcoin because they only bring their bitcoin wallet to go some where.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Mandoy on October 14, 2019, 03:08:55 AM
Bitcoin is both a store of value and a method of payment. Bitcoin is a store of value since we are holding bitcoins in long term so that we will harvest a huge profit from storing it. In short bitcoin is tradable. Bitcoin is also a method of payment since we can use it to pay for our purchases, in some countries it can be used to pay taxis, bookstore, tuition, government taxes and many more. But if we weigh both, we can say that bitcoin as store of value weighs more than as a form of payment. Possibly if bitcoin is fully mainstreamed in the society then we can expect for bitcoin to be fully a method of payment.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Edraket31 on October 14, 2019, 03:23:05 AM
Using bitcoin as method payment for store I think best ideas how to get faster for every transaction, still little store have using bitcoin as method payment for selling in their store, just open wallet and access to send bitcoin to store wallet, will be easy without use cash money where for tourist never have change their money first to buy won your store, many traveler look happy if many store accepted bitcoin because they only bring their bitcoin wallet to go some where.

There are lots of potential in holding Bitcoin, one of those is that we can use in transactions as we all know and another thing is we can do this for investing. Making the transaction fast compare to bank is what people become interested at, aside from that, they can also earn and accumulate more because of the fact that crypto is volatile, so we can take this as an opportunity.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: amishmanish on October 14, 2019, 03:43:15 AM
The simplest way to view bitcoin is that its like "Money in the Bank" where you are also the bank owner. Its security, interest rate, asset management depends on your own self.

Learning about it means taking Financial responsibility.
Earning from it means moving towards Financial Freedom.

If you want your money to also be a store of value, then your bank needs to work its ass off. Build products, Earn interest (What most old Hodlers do), Invest into innovation (What alt-coins were supposed to be until they thought they could compete with BTC) etc. etc.

It seems like very little is happening on these fronts. The next halving will take place in Aug 2020. By 2022, the mining reward will have fallen to 3.125 BTC. If the fee market doesn't evolve by that time, it wouldn't remain any of these things anymore. What happens after that is anyone's guess.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: matchi2011 on October 14, 2019, 05:39:42 AM
There's no absolute answer but I know that people can do whatever they want to their Bitcoin because they have the freedom to do so. That's what's great about Bitcoin because it is not limiting us to what we can do. We can use it as a store of value, trading like a stock, or as a way of payment. People can do just what they want and that is the reason why Bitcoin is popular.
As long as it's not related to any illegal transactions and yes you do have your freedom on how you will treat your bitcoin. Working with this industry gives you chance to earned if you will use it for trading or as a investment assets. And since that there's already businesses online who accepts bitcoin as a currency, you can also deal without having any problem. Lesser delays even you transact overseas.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: metallica101 on October 14, 2019, 05:55:33 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

I think that store of value will be the future of BTC, while another, faster coin will become dominant for payments. I can't tell which coin that might be, or if it is even invented at this point. Perhaps ILCoin, they are making crazy breakthroughs regarding transaction speed and block size and alike.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: LogitechMouse on October 14, 2019, 06:52:46 AM
I can say Bitcoin is a store of value and at the same time method of payment.

Store of Value in the sense that they consider Bitcoin as a form of investment like stocks and bonds that is why they are investing not only in Bitcoin but other cryptocurrency because they are hoping that it will give huge profit to them.

Method of payment because you can buy different things and services using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Time after time, more and more establishments will accept Bitcoin as another method of payment and that will help Bitcoin to increase its adoption.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Google+ on October 14, 2019, 07:29:01 AM
I think the main purpose of bitcoin is used for the transaction method while the value of bitcoin is seen from the influence of demand and total supply which makes it expensive, shipping costs can also have an effect when making transactions which are normally used to speed up transactions.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: skarais on October 14, 2019, 07:44:30 AM
I can say Bitcoin is a store of value and at the same time method of payment.

Store of Value in the sense that they consider Bitcoin as a form of investment like stocks and bonds that is why they are investing not only in Bitcoin but other cryptocurrency because they are hoping that it will give huge profit to them.

Method of payment because you can buy different things and services using Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Time after time, more and more establishments will accept Bitcoin as another method of payment and that will help Bitcoin to increase its adoption.
Right, I agree with both. Bitcoin can be used as an asset to store a certain amount of money within the desired time period. Outside the context of bitcoin trading can also be used as a means of payment.
Now more and more outlets are accepting payments with bitcoin, as will be held in France. This is amazing about the adoption of bitcoin for the real world.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: hdtqisg on October 14, 2019, 08:43:57 AM
I think Bitcoin has both, but the investment purpose is BTC's main purpose. Because the price of Bitcoin is highly volatile, good investments will be very effective!


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Astvile on October 14, 2019, 09:37:11 AM
Bitcoin now is used for both ways, as a store of value and method of payments online now. Yes, bitcoin payments are still limited up to now but there are already some who accept bitcoin as a payment method so I think it's just fair to consider it even tho it's still not that widely accepted.
But one thing is sure that bitcoin is really made to be a currency and we are just using it in ways that we will benefit.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: inanilujimi on October 14, 2019, 09:55:58 AM
It seems like you are in a dilemma with both of them.
if you want to expect large companies to adopt bitcoin for payment, are we ready with the value of fluctuating bitcoin?
certainly not.
for me bitcoin is now only a cryptocurrency more valuable than gold.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Ailmand on October 14, 2019, 10:11:21 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

As of now, since bitcoin is not yet fully accepted by merchants as an alternative mode of payment, people use bitcoin as a store of value. People have only few options where they can use it as a mode of payment, it is either to purchase something online or pay for services rendered. In time when bitcoin can be used anywhere, things may change, bitcoin will be circulating from one merchant to another.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Shenzou on October 14, 2019, 11:03:40 AM
I think that the current situation that bitcoin is in leans toward people just using it as a store value and they prefer just investing their money in it and just saving it, from what i have seen there are some people that use bitcoin as a way to pay for thing indirectly and that is by exchanging it to fiat, and that is due to the fact that there are barely no shops or places to spend it, sure there are some but they are not a necessity and people don't want to spend and hour or tow to look for a shop to buy some food for bitcoin that is miles away from them, and that is why they don't spend it .


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Ridwan Fauzi on October 14, 2019, 11:20:02 AM
Bitcoin has another function besides of those, you can easily transfer your money to everyone who lives in different country with you. Just deposite your money to your bitcoin wallet and send them to your destinantion and just take a few times your money will be accepted to reciever. And you can compare with several services who have third party, maybe it will take several days in my experience.

So, it is up to you to choose bitcoin. If you feel comfortable to use it as payment system then use it wisely, and if you use it as store of value then I think you aren't wrong to choose it as well as with another user, they have their own way, regardless of regulation I don't have much times to following it.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Willitivity on October 14, 2019, 04:03:26 PM
On a general perspective, Bitcoin as a store of value is not very feasible regarding the fact that it is very volatile.  It's more of a method of payment even though it is not accepted on a broad scale.  To me, based on the fact that Bitcoin is grossly traded, it is can be seen as a speculative assest. The volatility makes it fall short of being a store of value and method of payment to some extent.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: gabbie2010 on October 14, 2019, 04:41:40 PM
Bitcoin hodlers are primarily consigned with it store of value features Nobody want it as a mode of payment a lot of hodlers are quite conscious of the fact that the massive pump in the price of bitcoin in 2017 had made many millionaires thus hodlers don't want to miss another opportunity of massive pump that might possibly occur in the nearest future.
I believed its adoption as a mode of payment would have warrant more acceptance globally and would have compete with other currencies both fiat and virtual.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: dentolas on October 15, 2019, 06:37:13 AM
I think it is clear by the actions of the BTC team and the development of things on the crypto world that BTC use case is to become a store of value, this is why the blocks don't have to become larger, and the cost and speed of the transactions don't need to be great... everyone is holding it and doesn't want to spend it - store of value
Everyone claims that stores should accept it, etc, but in reality there are other coins that are more fit for day-to-day use like for example BCH, with cheap and fast transactions... even if it was accepted everywhere I doubt people would use it much for regular payments


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: kamekadze2016 on October 15, 2019, 08:56:07 AM
Bitcoin in the first place for me is a way of earning, and then everything else, including the method of payment


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: ufaiz50 on October 15, 2019, 09:03:12 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
I think we already know about the development of bitcoin, with such large fluctuations, user desires have begun to change. see the value of bitcoin in the history of 2009-2019. users prefer to treat bitcoin as a money-producing asset, we forget about the transaction and financial problems that should be the goal of bitcoin, about as an alternative payment at a store or large business, I don't know, basically the needs change according to the value of the asset.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: dimox on October 15, 2019, 09:45:30 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
you are right.
people say that we will go to crypto world and make crypto be real currency, in a fact they wont pay thing with bitcoin. i know if many people do this (pay with bitcoin than just keep it) but the most choice to keep for their profit. why? because bitcoin have value. if government release crypto for their country, and it can be trade for daily, it mean that coin no have value, so you cant make money from that coin. but it defferent with bitcoin that have big value


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: joinfree on October 15, 2019, 09:58:00 AM
The motive for creating Bitcoin was clearly stated in Satoshi' whitepaper as medium of peer to peer payment system. Though currently it has adopted unto itself as a store of value because of its price fluctuation from time to time. However, bitcoin's high volatility makes it very dangerous to serve as a good store of value looking at the fact that it's been just 10 years since its creation. Gold and other precious minerals are the best store of value. Bitcoin could also be a store of value in the future, but for now it's perfect to be used as method of payment.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Ctn on October 15, 2019, 10:01:48 AM
People only use it as a store of value and not as a method of payment it's because they are just here to make money and not actually popularizing and increasing widespread adoption of Bitcoin. I don't blame people sometimes because Bitcoin is pretty slow as a method of payment and can also prove to be costly sometimes. So it's better to think of Bitcoin as a successor of Gold.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: owengtam09 on October 15, 2019, 10:34:25 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What're your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?
We all wanted to hold our BTC so it will give us a good future but there were also times that there is an emergency that we also need to prioritize today than to think of our future. Once that emergency comes our future purposes will also lessen or maybe gone (depend on what we need on that moment) so if there is a chance for you to invest right now and never use it for years then that's a great idea, although at the same time we also wanted to have bitcoin for method of payment because we all know that it is very convenient at all but I think, FUTURE is way better important.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Kyraishi on October 15, 2019, 11:06:10 AM
It really depends on your way of thinking about Bitcoin, obviously there are going to be people that are only interested in the currency purely for monetary gain, and other people who actually support the currency.

I am personally of the second type of people, and haven't really been very interested in the price movements side of BTC, but more the adoption and media attention it recieves, which is very interesting.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: ivakar on October 15, 2019, 11:18:38 AM
It really depends on your way of thinking about Bitcoin, obviously there are going to be people that are only interested in the currency purely for monetary gain, and other people who actually support the currency.

I am personally of the second type of people, and haven't really been very interested in the price movements side of BTC, but more the adoption and media attention it recieves, which is very interesting.

may I ask a question, how the one can support the bitcoin by owning it? if I have, say, 10 btc how strong my support for bitcoin is?
and if I have 1000 btc will my support of btc become stronger? I'm not quite get how it is working? ::)
if I'm trading with bitcoins- I can see how I support bitcoin - I create turnover, exchanges are earning fees, because of huge turnovers , bitcoin attracts attention of media, researches, traders and so on.
but just holding bitcoin you do nothing.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: hypersonic1 on October 15, 2019, 11:39:29 AM
I regularly transact in bitcoin. This includes purchases as well as cashing out for fun.

If you're talking about strict definitions. Bitcoin is currently a store of value as people accrue and store it.

It is in fact however a currency as well. It's just that in order for it to be used it still for the moment has to be convverted in most parts of the world.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: aysg76 on October 15, 2019, 11:46:07 AM
Welcome to 660th thread on "Bitcoin is asset or money"

I don't think you're adding anything new to this on-going debate so I really don't see any need why you created this thread. There are hundred of threads here in 'Bitcoin Discussion' section and 'Economics' section on this topic already.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: rahmatullah9305 on October 15, 2019, 01:10:38 PM
Bitcoin is an electronic payment system based on a mathematical system. The idea is to produce an independent currency not bound by a certain central authority, with very low transaction costs. Bitcoin should be categorized as a currency based on the concept of money and how the three main international monetary institutions (IMF, WTO, World Bank) respond to its presence with a basic analysis using the concept of cyberpolitics.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: jhonjhon on October 15, 2019, 02:21:59 PM
Bitcoin is both a store value and a method of payment. The reason why some people would keep their bitcoins is that bitcoins price is changing from time to time even with just holding it if it hits the bull then the value will increase. Bitcoin is also a mode of payment because it is faster and convenient to use it, not only that it is also secure because it is place on a hard wallet that has high authentication rather than using fiat money.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Nhor1011 on October 15, 2019, 02:45:21 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

For me ,Bitcoin is both a store of value and method of payments. I think there is no problem about that. Anyway this topic is always asked repeatedly. Bitcoin is valuable and volatile.People earning more profit through holding bitcoins while waiting their target price. Also others use it to pay as a mode of payments like here in our country. For me the more things we can do with bitcoin is much better.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Arsenyo on October 15, 2019, 05:38:24 PM
It will eventually function as a store of value and as a means of payment, but today it is considered more like investment, unfortunately. Majority of people think only of prices and pumps to make profit and they don't really care about adoption, technology or development.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: hulla on October 15, 2019, 06:27:34 PM
On a general perspective, Bitcoin as a store of value is not very feasible regarding the fact that it is very volatile.  It's more of a method of payment even though it is not accepted on a broad scale.  To me, based on the fact that Bitcoin is grossly traded, it is can be seen as a speculative assest. The volatility makes it fall short of being a store of value and method of payment to some extent.
You're right when you said bitcoin can be seen as a speculative asset but you're wrong when you said "Bitcoin as a store of value is not very feasible regarding the fact that it is very volatile." because every asset that can be exchanged, save and be useful in future (profit) is a store of value.
Don't use the current situation of the market to justify the promising future of bitcoin.




Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Artemis3 on October 15, 2019, 08:34:08 PM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

It is both. As with any deflationary coin, people will tend to save as much as possible, and only spend the absolute minimum. Of course, if people still have earnings in inflationary fiat, they would spend that first, and exchange the rest.

Loans are a bad idea, just live managing your current income. You have to learn to go from a debt mentality to a savings mentality, it is a big shock in the western hemisphere, especially in America where the school of Chicago reigns supreme.

If your income is in bitcoin, its even easier, if not exchange what you can save for long term into bitcoin is good.

But, do not think it will bring you "wealth over the next years". Those bitcoins are first preserving the purchasing value of your money, and only slightly possibly give you a bit of profit, unless you are trading, but that's another subject entirely. For "holders", the right mentality is to stay cool and wait the years to pass, use only what you must.

Think of gold, it if wasn't dangerous to store and handle your own gold, you would buy gold and keep it safe by yourself, only selling small amounts from time to time for daily use. Well Bitcoin is like gold, but much much safer, and you can probably remain hidden from criminals if you do things in moderation.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: dnprock on October 15, 2019, 09:23:14 PM
Bitcoin is predominantly a Store of Value. It's working as designed. We're trying too hard to make it do both.

I advocate Bitflate, a Bitcoin fork with 7% constant inflation. We need to separate these two use cases.

I've written longer posts to explain my point of view. Bitcoin is a Store of Value. Bitflate, a parallel chain with inflation, is used for transactions.

The Next Big Thing in Crypto: Using Inflation to Create Stablecoin
https://bitflate.org/post/2019/10/10/the-next-big-thing-in-crypto-using-inflation-to-create-stablecoin.html

Bitcoin's Missing Link to the World
https://bitflate.org/post/2019/08/26/bitcoin-missing-link-to-the-world.html

Join Bitflate community: https://discord.gg/utnEyp8


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: MicroGuy on October 15, 2019, 09:25:23 PM
Bitcoin was initially designed to be both.

But thanks to the wisdom of blockstream and their small block 'theory' it's become a settlement layer.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: dnprock on October 15, 2019, 09:45:07 PM
Quote
Bitcoin was initially designed to be both.

But thanks to the wisdom of blockstream and their small block 'theory' it's become a settlement layer.

It's easy to blame. We have BCH and other chains with big blocks. They can do as many transactions as we want. We've been focusing on the wrong problems. When you have limited supply and SoV, people hodl.

Join Bitflate community: https://discord.gg/utnEyp8 :)


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: pixie85 on October 15, 2019, 10:02:56 PM
It will eventually function as a store of value and as a means of payment, but today it is considered more like investment, unfortunately. Majority of people think only of prices and pumps to make profit and they don't really care about adoption, technology or development.

I also see it as a store of value not the payment system Satoshi had dreamed of.

Bitcoin with its deflation will never be a popular payment system because people want to spend what loses value and hold what gains it. You don't spend your gold and hoard cash. That would be counterproductive.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: rodel caling on October 15, 2019, 10:15:05 PM
Well" actually bitcoin is very useful for fast payment transaction they guve convinient for those busy people for their day yo day work so bitcoin guve this opportunity to use it via onlin paymeny without traveeling and wasting of time. But of course if they have an opportunity to keep bitcoin and wait for the new all time high the way to become rich or the way to get huge profits as bitcoin treated store value. So is obvious bitcoin both is important and useful.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: barabarian1 on October 16, 2019, 09:46:40 AM
I think bitcoin can do both. as a store of value and a means of payment. it's just that not all countries allow bitcoin as a means of payment. so most bitcoin holders only use bitcoin as an investment or trading tool. but for countries that have accepted bitcoin as a legal payment tool. some users already use bitcoin for many things like buying property, cars and others. I am sure that over time there will be more countries and companies that will legalize bitcoin as a means of payment.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Lmaooo on October 16, 2019, 11:16:23 AM
The bitcoin is both. Bitcoin was originally invented as a digital store of value and also a payment system. You are the one who gets to decide whether to use bitcoin as a digital store of value or a payment method.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: skarais on October 17, 2019, 11:07:46 AM
The bitcoin is both. Bitcoin was originally invented as a digital store of value and also a payment system. You are the one who gets to decide whether to use bitcoin as a digital store of value or a payment method.
Bitcoin as a means of payment, that is the true reason for making bitcoin. Over time, bitcoin has become an expensive investment asset. But to be used as a bitcoin payment tool also continues to get support from various groups.
Until now, adoption of bitcoin continues to increase in various countries. Countries that have crypto-friendly regulations will make it easier for citizens to use bitcoin for payment, but not a few countries have regulations that prohibit bitcoin as a means of payment.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: suzanne5223 on October 17, 2019, 03:41:09 PM
Quote
Bitcoin was initially designed to be both.

But thanks to the wisdom of blockstream and their small block 'theory' it's become a settlement layer.

It's easy to blame. We have BCH and other chains with big blocks. They can do as many transactions as we want. We've been focusing on the wrong problems. When you have limited supply and SoV, people hodl.

Join Bitflate community: https://discord.gg/utnEyp8 :)
Firstly, bitcoin is for both (store of value and method of payment) but BCH was just another shit altcoin and it also not the solution to the issue of  the small block size theory. Mind you, we have SegWit and Lightning which are still better.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: qiman on October 18, 2019, 05:15:12 PM
I think the big hoarders are also the ones spending it. If you see, now they can purchase vehicles and houses/real estate with Bitcoin, so those miners and also early adopters who have thousands of Bitcoins sitting in their wallets can easily afford to splash out and spend a few BTC to purchase luxury goods and services. This is the new phenomenon now that the Super rich are engaged in and what the rest of us only can dream of right now with the few satoshis we currently own.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Dabs on October 20, 2019, 08:40:15 PM
One could even use BTC as collateral for a fiat loan. The fiat loan will charge interest and if you don't pay it back, they'll keep your BTC.

The smarter way would be to use those altcoins that are made for this purpose, like the DAI stablecoin with it's collateralized dept thingies, so you stuff it with ETH (or other collateral soon) and you get DAI, which is like worth $1 USD (or it's supposed to be close to a dollar)... But the interest rate for this has increased in the last few months relatively high. It started around 0.5% or something.

As to the original question, I've used it to buy all sorts of stuff on Amazon, and also to pay all sorts of bills everywhere. I'm inclined to keep it as a store of value tho and only use it when really needed. Or use it, then make sure to top it back up, sort of like a debit card.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Mike Mayor on October 20, 2019, 11:33:32 PM
The bitcoin is both. Bitcoin was originally invented as a digital store of value and also a payment system. You are the one who gets to decide whether to use bitcoin as a digital store of value or a payment method.
Bitcoin as a means of payment, that is the true reason for making bitcoin. Over time, bitcoin has become an expensive investment asset. But to be used as a bitcoin payment tool also continues to get support from various groups.
Until now, adoption of bitcoin continues to increase in various countries. Countries that have crypto-friendly regulations will make it easier for citizens to use bitcoin for payment, but not a few countries have regulations that prohibit bitcoin as a means of payment.

You could always just convert your fiat to crypto and keep a little crypto so you pay with crypto instead of fiat. If you want to keep some then buy some more. YOu not losing anything spending crypto if you were going to buy that item anyway. If you end up not spending all of it you will have some left that can act as your investment. You could even send your change to the same address after each purchase.

Honestly, any country that limits bitcoin payments is not worth living in, because that's not freedom.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Dabs on October 21, 2019, 01:26:13 AM
You could even send your change to the same address after each purchase.

That's not really recommended as you would be reusing addresses. It's not that hard to use different addresses and most bitcoin wallets do this for you automatically.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: Eugenar on October 21, 2019, 05:59:49 AM
I've recently meditated on this thought. We all want businesses to adopt bitcoin as a payment method and people to pay with it, but I think most people are rather avoiding to spend their BTC as they see it more as a store of value that will bring wealth to them over the next years. So they are more likely to keep their BTCs and spend the fiat currency, thus the use of BTC in day-to-day transactions won't probably go up until people actually get their wages in Bitcoin denomination. But in order for companies to enable that so it will be convenient for both the employee and the employer we need to have the infrastructure in place, including regulations and major stores in the cities accepting BTC.

What's your thoughts on this? Do people prefer to spend their BTC or do anything( maybe even taking a loan) to protect them?

Upon thinking about it, I've came out that for me, it shouldn't be both since bitcoin has a very good potential market value in the future, and we actually use other cryptocurrency such as XRP or ETH to buy goods why? since the transaction fee is quite better for each transaction that we are executing daily. In this case, I am in favor of bitcoin as a store in value rather than mode of payment for micro transactions.


Title: Re: Bitcoin - Store of Value or Method of Payment
Post by: bounceback on October 21, 2019, 08:26:58 AM
cryptocurrency or bitcoin is a digital currency that we can use as a payment method and also for valuable storage assets, but now we see governments in some countries unfortunately have not yet formalized crtptocurrency and bitcoin as possible payment methods because of this we can say people make bitcoin as valuable storage assets in the future.