Bitcoin Forum

People often tend to say that Bitcoin is a P2P currency based on the trust between two people. However it's obvious that these days scams are on rapid rise while governments are generally not providing any legal security to those who are involved in this. So do you think there can be some central Bitcoin Authority represented by various people who can become jury in such cases of dispute? I think this can also increase adoption as people can trust btc more. Also even countries would feel safer as such an authority can conyrol certain malpractices

That day there the philosophy of Bitcoin will die. They will have all the logs of the address you are giving them and they will know how much bitcoin you own. Do you think this is why bitcoin invented?

Bitcoin is a gift for us. There is nothing wrong with it. It's how we use it. We have nuclear power but we need to decide which will be the application to serve the mankind. Should we create more nuclear bombs or we should use it to generate electricity for city and country sides?
 

The way to avoid scams is by using your brain, not placing trust in central authorities. 

But if you want to persist with such a terrible idea and pay some people to do this job, go right ahead.  Or did you think they're going to do it for free?  Or that someone else was going to pay for it?  Think it through, please.

I liked the way you think. If there was a control system for the scammers, scam projects etc. , it could be very beneficial. But I regret to say that a control system like you say contradicts the Bitcoin's decentralized nature.

Nuclear power is restricted resource not everyone is capable of creating it or using it which is the reason why there is no harm created by it. Give it in hands of everyone and you will see what kind of agony it can create. Moreover I understand Bitcoin is a gift but what solutions do you have for ever increasing scams and hacks. Doesn't matter how much brain you use there is almost certainty that without regulation there will always be some or the other kind of shady things going around. If you don't trust me check out manipulation done by exchanges themselves and also what about the ICO wave? Name 10 ICOs who have completed what they said.

I don't think that making a "Bitcoin Central Agency" as you name it would be a feasible option. I think the best way to  protect investors from scams is to organise educational campaigns and most importantly to limit their exposure to investors aka their advertising venues.

well the real "goal" is to create a decentralized system not just have some decentralized aspects and other centralized aspects all around it.
so in this case the goal should still be to stick to that decentralization. what this means is that in your example (the scams) we should try and come up with decentralized ways. one way that comes to mind is usage of multi signature schemes with (2 of 3) or without (2 of 2) escrows.

Actually the thing is we are so much against the very concept of Bitcoin Central Agency but we almost have no issues while working on exchanges. Don't you think these exchanges too are types of central authority I recently read that top 5 exchanges hold 1 Billion Worth Bitcoin which I think is enough to manipulate markets. If they decide to form a cartel they can easily manipulate markets so why don't create some agency which can stop them from doing such things?

There's no way something like that will ever happen, by the own definition of Bitcoin.org..


I recommend you to watch this documentary about bitcoin to understand In deep its philosophy and why there wouldn't be ever a central agency on Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin Phenomenon (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pWblf8COH4)

Bonus:
https://bitcoin.org/en/resources

Edit: typo

This would not create adoption because many people who use bitcoin at this time are more into it since it does not disclose identity. They even don't like the idea of KYC, that mean legislation or litigation itself won't bring more investors.

first of all. if you dont know the true identity, location of the recipient.. no central authority can do anything about it. even if you get a shiny gold leaf certificate saying your the victim, it wont help you get funds back. after all how will you get your funds if you cant even slap the recipient

if you do know the true identity of the recipient. then take them to court. it doesnt matter if they stole btc, a goldfish, your wifes underwear or a lawnmower. you can still take them to court

secondly
with fiat many people who send funds somewhere do so for bad intentions of getting the goods/service they are buying and then once received. claim they are a victim of fraud to then get thier funds back too.. so any central authority wont just accept a simple victim cry story and you instantly win. you wont be compensated just for suggesting a victim story. you need to know the recipient and get them to defend their side and if proven guilty enforced to repay their illicit gains back to you.
i say this because idea's like this topic presents is not original. they end up turning into silly secondary idea's of making bitcoin transactions reversible if a known jury multisig is used to get the funds from the guilty persons private key. which as i said could be abused by what is termed 'chargeback scammers'. it also opens up other attack vectors of abuse. so it aint gonna happen

Scams are actually issues that the government should be addressing as the laws covering frauds are fairly established. Now, the problem is that we in this industry do not listen to warnings from the government and we patronize projects which are doubtful because we are enticed with the promises from the scammers. To be fair, this is not the problem of Bitcoin just like it is not the problem of the dollar if there is going to be a pyramiding scam and they happen to be using the dollar as the money to pay-in.

Actually all what you are saying is happening as of now too. I accept reversing transactions can be nasty but so is the problem of not reversing transactions. Bitcoins worth millions have been hacked. Moreover I am just suggesting an idea like a normal usual world with crypto instead of fiat. Because I think P2P is much more like a dream as of now. Moreover, even if you know the recipient most of the courts around the world have already warned that they won't entertain any such complaints as they do not acknowledge payments in crypto therefore people doing such things are doing it at their own risk. I know most of the European Countries do provide such protection but world is Not Europe only.

actually courts dont have a list of items that cant be judged on, they simply dont appreciate judging cases where the value of the item in question is not worthy of the court costs.
which as we both agree is the same fiat situations. scammers get away not because courts dont recognise an asset, but because the value stoln is not worthy of following up with, which a victim with court costs, lawyer costs, travel costs and days off work costs deem not worth it. and its these things scammers pray on as their get out of jail free card. not pray for courts ignorance of asset ownership laws or supposed btc banned from court as you seem to imply. just simple dont steal too much to risk a victim pursuing.

alot of people claim china, japan, africa, thailand, south america and many more are hesitant. yet there have ben bitcoin related court cases in those countries.

either way. fiat or bitcoin its still the same problem. knowing the recipient, having value stolen worthy of following up, proof you the victim are not just chargeback scamming. are things that cause issues in the legal system where a fair trial may not go a victims way.

but here is a solution to avoid being defrauded
1. dont give money to strangers.
would you stand in the middle of town and just hand a suitcase of money to a random passer by and say here you go, have this, but i want it back in full in 1 month... hoping they will just turn up.
2. know your recipient. if your giving funds to someone and you know you will want it back and its life changing amounts. find out about them. yea ok if its grocery value amounts dont worry so much, but if its a months rent or a lambo amount dont be so dumb trusting
3. in short if you dont know enough about someone to slap them with a wet fish should they wrong you. then you should slap yourself

I think Bitcoin will need a control unit for security gaps and scams before the problems reach critical levels. I think a system that will not disarray Bitcoin's structure can be developed to solve these problems in the future.

I don't think that such thing can really happen, because the whole point of using bitcoin and what is based on is decentralization and creating an agency or something to control and centralize it is defying that idea, scams and other things happen because people are being stupid and uneducated, if you lose your money investing in some shady website that is your fault and no one else, bitcoin is secure and independent and odes not need any regulation due to its nature and how the blockchain works.

ok lets play hypothetical, for the sake of the topic creator

lets pretend ther is a country where a court simply wont even bother accepting a claim for any amount. purely because its crypto
lets presume a group of people set up their own arbitration system/tribuneral service

1. how punishable will the guilty person be. think about it. its not like he will get thrown in prison as that requires a court system
how feasible would a guilty party be forced to hand over the funds. we already know regular court systems put court orders on people to repay/compensate victims. but the guilty party simply walks out th door and doesnt come back, or at best just pays like $1 a month as a token gesture that he is following court order. so how can a independant group have any more or equal punishment powers as a court does.

i say this because even if the scammer gets identified, what power would some social group have to not only seize computer equipmnt, not only arrest the person. not only force thm to sit in arbitration/tribuneral. but to then actually get punished.
all i s happening is a knock at the door and the guy laughing in their face or getting a piece of paper demanding they attend a tribuneral and the guy saying, well that will make nice spare toilet paper

2. who is going to pay for the stuff involved with handling the scmmer just to get him to appear at tribuneral. remember it actually costs people money to have an office, staff it, write out appointment letters. sit as judge/jury. before the case is even heard. so who's paying upfront costs.
i say this because traditional courts are coverd upfront by government budgets and then compensation/court fee's win or lose come from the attendee's later to reimburse the courts. but in a hypothtical where a government legal system does not accept bitcoin. there wont be government assistance. thus victims will most definetly have to pay more upfront,

..
but anyway. its just much better to not hand world changing amounts to strangers (prevention better than remedy)

I do not think you fully understand the technology which powers bitcoin- the blockchain technology where every transaction is reflected in a public ledger which unalterable and absolute. No person can ever tamper the information due to a number of people watching such ledger in the future.

Assuming that bitcoin were to be applied as our medium and there were to be some central agency that provides security, this totally defeats the purpose on why bitcoin was created - for decentralization. Eliminating the need for a third-party is the heart of the technology behind cryptocurrencies and that is why the government is against its implementation as a medium.

Lucky for that Central Agency if they can stand on their without funds from the community, I don't think we all are wiling to send funds to it to live a day. I bet Bitcoin Central Agency will only scam us all as like scammers in here who just walkaway after we send $1. Anyone who wants freedom wants real freedom, if there is a central agency what good does it do to freedom? If you read the comments here, you'd understand that BTC will die once this happen.

We don't need a central authority in the bitcoin community to stop scammers. I think that's in our hands, you should know who you are dealing with when buying things with bitcoin. You are supposed to be super smart when using bitcoin by knowing the bitcoin transactions are irreversible. You have to trust your business partner first.

Whenever and if that ever happens, it'll be the end of bitcoin for us and we'll likely lose a lot of support for the coin since it's core philosophy, decentralisation will be changed then.

Bitcoin was made to help decentralise things and give the people more power, if that's removed there's no point to it, so it'll never happen.

Being protected by some central agency obviously defeats the purpose of bitcoin which is decentralization. As if a central agency can do about the scams that are happening today, It will be hard for them to find who's the culprit and we all know that bitcoin transactions are irreversible that's why they can't do anything to protect the users of bitcoin. It's better to tighten up your own security for your own good. Banks are centralized thats why it can be protected by some agency and bitcoin's purposed is to be opposite to them. Transacting anonymously and being decentralized is one of the main features of bitcoin.

An entity like this wouldn't have any real legal authority. It would just be like an arbitrator and parties would need to agree to arbitration.

I'm not sure that's necessary. There are already plenty of established arbitrators out there, not to mention both civil and criminal courts to deal with legal disputes, fraud, etc.

It wouldn't be the real thing, if Bitcoin ever became centralised, it'll become the exact thing it tried to fix.

That's true - I couldn't see them getting a lot of legal power, and there's no need for a new arbitrator system/company.

There also hasn't been enough crimes that have been committed with Bitcoin to justify opening a new court just for it, we already have the various forms of law and Bitcoin related disputes would probably just be civil or criminal suits depending on the intensity.

even if it was felt necessary, but I don't think there will ever be a Bitcoin Central Agency. So far, bitcoin is a digital asset that is independent
of all transactions are the responsibility of the owner. if indeed there are people or groups who are moved to build the Bitcoin Central Agency
I really appreciate.

Sorry to say bitcoin central agency is never going to exist. Because problems that occur due to scammers must be overcome each person is not an agency that interferes, scammers can occur because of their own mistakes in doing analysis and decision making. If it is forced there will be a central agency bitcoin, bitcoin will no longer change decentralization. Which brings freedom to its users, because we can control the bitcoin that we have. It's not a good idea to deal with scammers by creating a bitcoin central agency, there are many other ways to overcome problems related to scammers.

I think it would be beneficial if it would be able to regulate and implement policies to existing exchanges and declare international standards for security and such before an enterprise opens up an exchange. This is to prevent thefts, scams, etc.

Having a central agency does not necessarily mean the system would be centralized. The supply/demand and block generation, as well as trades are still decentralized and controlled by the traders. I don't see a problem here. And also, it does not mean it would collect every single address owner and his details. It's just to have someone responsible to exchanges with unsecure platforms.

This is much more beneficial to crypto in general since most of the scams come from altcoins and various crypto-related projects.

• No one is going to feel safe under the authority and control of a few people even if these people are saints. When are we to realize this?
• A Central Agency for a decentralized system is funny and amusing as it is extremely ludicrous.

Enough has been said against this idea.


Absolutely! It is better to leave the proper authorities to do their job. After all, Bitcoin was never created to solve scams. It does not have any legal representation. Neither does it have the capacity and power to run after those and bring them to justice.

Having some Bitcoin Central Agency will just remove the true purpose of bitcoin which is decentralization.
Bitcoin is created to protect its users and it removes the need of having a third party when having a transaction, if this will be implemented or been created in the future, its purpose will be useless

Going back to central agencies will be going back to Square One, destroying what Bitcoin has achieved all these 10 years.  If anyone wants a central agency, might as well go to your central bank and get fiat instead.  One huge advantage of Bitcoin is that it is decentralised.

Bitcoin is no longer entirely decentralized thanks to the introduction of kyc by various exchanges, that part has already been penetrated, and thanks to too many insecurities surrounding btc while doing any transactions, the possibilty of getting scammed, people don't trust each other enough to engage in p2p without an escrow, or if you are still not comfortable go to an exchange, submit your data and transact,
Only few number of people patronize decentralized exchanges around, so btc is already some how centralized, only a matter of time before something close to a btc central agency is introduced, many are yawning for regulations because of the growing number of scams around, who knows what will happen.

There are also some positive side in having a centralized agency but for some very important reason it defeats the vision of Satoshi Nakamoto when he created bitcoin. Even though there are many conflicting ideas pertaining what bitcoin needs to be and how to settle problems in the code that leads to many forks, I still believe that bitcoin should remain as a decentralized digital currency. Removing the decentralized feature of bitcoin is not an option but rather we should look for other alternatives to settle the problems.

It’s highly unlikely for a centralized body to materialize within bitcoin’s ecosystem. Besides, what’s the centralized body going to do in a decentralized currency anyway? It’s not as if they would be able to mediate in important talks in the community and act as a representative whenever bitcoin is mentioned. At best, they would only be a puppet/used as a political tool for those who want to further their interest with bitcoin and nothing else.

(points 1 below is about exchanges/business. not the bitcoins themselves)
1. regulations(facepalm)
reguations give exchanges the ability to make their own policies on how to stay in the law, but then make it only a crime to disobey the law if they dont report it. if they do report it the only penalty is not criminal, but civil (a fine & resignation letter of a scape goat employee).
regulations give businesses a shiny sherriffs badge to police its customers
what should be promoted is not regulations but consumer protections. alot of people think regulations are consumer protections but they are not.
take the 2007 financial crisis. the bank bailouts, the consumers houses forfeited/foreclosed on. banks were regulated but consumers lost out.
banks didnt get slapped wrists(prison time) because they, when the crap hit the fan, reported their mishandling just intime before getting slapped for not reporting it should the crap hit the fan before reporting.

2. having a CENTRAL authority is centralising things.
a solution would be for instance, for those suseptable to scammers or just happily willing to throw large amounts of funds around without thinking that each person nominate 3 members of their family as co-signers of a multisig. thus keeping things somewhat decentralised. then if one person wanted to spend money. the family can check that person is sane or stupid, by asking if the person knows the recipient. thus family get to slap some sense into the person if they are about to make a foolish mistake handing funds to strangers(prevention better than remedy)
take eamples where scammers target old people that thy owe tax, unpaid bills and must immediately go and purchase itunes/google giftcards to pa the scammer. imagine if the granny had to ask families permission. and the granny told the scammer she cant do anything without family consent. the scammer would have just hung up and the family would help the granny come to her senses to not be fooled so easily (with a cup of tea not a slap)

3. no authority has the ability to reverse bitcoin transactions apart from the holder of the bitcoin deciding he is moral enough to hand back his ill gotton gains. to have a system where funds can be taken away by someone thats not the holder. EG an outside party who has no private key access to the funds. is not only bad security. but also ripe for abuse. such as police seizing funds without having the bank customers password/pin number. or seizing rolls of banknotes from a car stoppd at border patrol. because of no crime but just having more than what police deem fit that a person should have in their car. under the illusion that having too much money is suspicious

imagine the situation. no on is allowed more than 1.2btc or they will be investigated and funds frozen for having more than $10k in their possession

If one is aware of what is the cryptocurrency and how it works, there are really small chances that someone can fool him. That scams you're talking about are mainly related to the ponzi/mlm or similar things, unfortunately no one can fight human stupidity and ignorance.

It is not easy to be your own bank, but Bitcoin promoting this idea from the start - moving away from centralized to decentralized currency. Your idea makes no sense unless we change the whole concept and make drastic changes, but then it would no longer be Bitcoin.

Why will people need a bitcoin central agency?  There can only be a central agency to a particular thing when there is a central body controlling the use of that particular thing and this body is basically in charge of the production of that thing. Bitcoin on the other hand has no specific body  in charge of the production and circulation of the number of Bitcoin. So why the hell will the central agency be needed for ?

Cryptocurrency is decentralized so there is no one in control of it. However, having a Bitcoin Central Agency couldn't still resolve problems such as hacking and scamming. It will be better if we users will be the one to adjust and get rid of those crimes. Cryptocurrency could stand and resolve its issues alone.

Bitcoin is backed by blockchain which is very decentralized in all aspects, for it to be partially or fully controlled by another agency would only remove the decentralized backbone of blockchain. Governmental agencies should just do their part to ensure that people don't take advantage of the anonymity bit and scam innocent people.

No, not at all.

Bitcoin is an emergent superorganism.

Bitcoin is doing better. and never had:

- CEO
- Marketing
- Salaries
- ICO
- Partnerships
- Headquarters
- Customer support.

For source Check tweet  https://twitter.com/abhijit_kale/status/1118374494110912512

So considering above mentioned parameters Bitcoin is different. And it proved it's existence.

Making a challenge to the specification of Bitcoins decreases Bitcoin's privacy, and this is against its specification. Bitcoin is decentralized. And if in future any central agency takes control of Bitcoin then that will end of Bitcoins era. belive it or not.

Bitcoin is the currency for the people, so the people decides what services they need to use to make the experience more convenient and safe for them. Exchanges are a perfect example of that, because they came into existence, when some people wanted to trade in Bitcoin in a more regulated environment.

Yes, Bitcoin is supposed to replace all these centralized services, but there are still some people who wants the safety net of third party services. The community has created several intermediary services, like Escrow services and Payment processors to offer them some additional protection against these scams, but none of these services are guaranteed to be 100% safe.

Bitcoin is all about choices and alternatives and you decide what you want.  ;)

Well spoken, its impossible to stop scammers particularly these days that most of them are using different techniques and strategies to deceive others so they can get what they want. If you really wanted to avoid them then you should have enough understanding about safety and security because you can't easily say peoples true intentions, actually you don't have to be smart as long as you are aware of everything then its fine. Being attentive and cautious is helpful because it makes you see every little details and information in that way you can explore things before making decisions since it is undoubtedly speculative.

that's what point there is escrow service for avoid fraud/scamer and you will not lose lot money because of the fee.
and you say it will make bitcoin end? nope even there more worse news about bitcoin and bitcoin still survive.
people already trust in bitcoin if not,there are no bitcoin and no transaction at all.You just need avoid bad people liek that.

But bitcoin is decentralized. No one is controlling it. Having central agency means someone higher is controlling or regulating the users. I know the aim of this is for security since scams are rampant but it will obviously go against its nature.
Bitcoin is decentralized that's why we are responsible for every transactions we made. It's our own fault responsibilities if we  lost our money. Even thoigh we put up an agency, it will still be hard to find your bitcoin back.

Exactly! If we have any sort of agency managing bitcoin to ensure security then it will no ;longer be known as decentralized and this idea might just kill bitcoin and other cryptos, we are better as of now without any sort of third party involvement and I am sure people are aware about escrow services to avoid getting scammed and if people do take risk to save those small amount of escrow charges and gets scammed then it's their mistake. We should never think of having any sort of regulators in bitcoin.

Scams are everywhere let it be crypto, real world trades, banks and all it's upto people to be cautious.

It will just destroy Bitcoin's purpose aside from this such excess fee will exist like taxes and others because it is to maintain the man or whatever the mean in between two people who are exchanging. Fluctuations I guess wouldn't happened anymore. Rules and regulations are to exist. Although the money is secured and in on monitor but I think it is not fun to engage in crypto currency anymore besides why would someone engage into that if fiats can provide such features.

That's likely going to happen in the future as bitcoin and crypto will be fully legalize by most countries.

We are using bitcoin to preserve our privacy but that is not the case when its been regulated as the government will ensure they have total control through their regulation on trading outlets and could be both local and international, of course it will not help when each country has unique rules of crypto, we will surely see some standard law that will be use by most countries to regulate crypto.

Bitcoin is decentralized but if we look at the situation today brokers and exchangers are now being required by the government to comply with the KYC regulations. Possibly in the future there will be some agency that will look into the activities pertaining bitcoin. As the government around the world unite to create the UN they will also unite to create an interagency focusing on cryptocurrency. An agency that will secure that cryptocurrency is not being used illegally and to make sure that there will be no price manipulation. We cannot but to follow the rules of the government even if we go against it we just have no power.

The meaning of Bitcoin in P2P and decentralization. If the central governing body of Bitcoin appears, this will be the end of the coin's existence as the safest asset.

What you need to understand is that in a decentralized system  or ecosystem, people are simply in charge of their own safety in terms of keeping their funds safe. With financial freedom, authorities can not have right to control all activities done in the financial ecosystem.  Having a central agency for the Bitcoin ecosystem  contradicts the whole idea of decentralization and the principles at which bitcoin operates. People just need to be vigilant on the kinda projects they invest in to avoid getting scammed...

No, the problems should never be solved via central authority otherwise abuse will eventually creep in.    court-like institution for Bitcoin can be built on decentralized platforms. Qualified people could be chosen randomly from millions of members worldwide to enforce rules without depending on any centralized authority.
It's too risky to solve Bitcoin/cryptocurrency problems via central means

Bitcoin Central Agency in future will give us a feeling of security. I think eventually bitcoin will get bigger the more we need some sort of juries to attend to some certain issues. However, that would probably change the crypto processes and regulations. Its quite somehow complicated but more than that security is badly needed. It can possibly compromise the crypto idealism as what it had practiced for so long. Well, only time can tell.