Bitcoin Forum

Yea... and just for context, 20k a day is a revenue of 7.3 million a year. That's nothing for any medium sized company much less for one of the largest crypto exchanges in the world.

You may not be happy that you aren't getting 1:1 trades, but i wouldn't exactly call this overcharging. If you can find a more trustworthy exchange with better exchange rates, then go there. If you find that hard to do, then they're not overcharging...

Any thoughts on OKEX (http://okex.com) / Huobi (http://huobi.com) fees?

I have been a binance user from the day I learn about trading and trust me there is no other exchange which is more secure than binance and it's reliable as well. It doesn't matter about the transaction as far as it served the purpose.

No idea about the other two exchanges which you have listed but usually transaction fees are much higher on other exchanges compared to binance.

Your analogy is true really and a medium size company is even better off because for Binance the $20k is the revenue without even considering the cost of running the business which is really on the high side and the difficulty of getting finance for that nature of business would be another challenge. For me, the fee they generate does not even commensurate with the risk they take for people that over the years they have not betrayed the trust that have been bestowed upon them.

No one really knows how much trades are really happening within the platform so it may be way more than that but certainly not less than that. I'm not really against what they are earning since they are providing a platform with good liquidity and good security, plus the fact that a part of this goes to a fund to which they use to cover customers' funds should there be any hacks and whatnot affecting the platform and the users. This isn't overcharging IMO if you are really getting something good and something that you need off of a service. Most of the fees are justified, too, for any other exchanges as well.

But don't forget BNB which got the total marketcap value of nearly 3 billion which is itself their profits right? They created this token from nowhere and made this into a huge profit so the transactions fees were just extra bonus.

Market cap of a cryptocurrency cannot be considered as a revenue for the project team itself since it's taking up the overall supply of the token multiplied to its current price. If I remembered it correctly 40% of the total supply of BNB was allocated to the team of Binance and not Binance as a company, meaning the employees are the ones sharing the profit and not the company itself which means its not a revenue for Binance. Additionally I know that they are burning the coins allocated to the team which I think they have done several times already and they will keep doing that until their own supply is all burned, this completely eliminates any rumors that they kept almost half of it just for profit.

You know that some of these fees are paid as mining expenses, right?

I think we should stop calculating how much money Binance or any other exchange makes. They do not contribute to us or the market. Almost every day and everyone is talking about Binance because (like or not) the best exchange for the time being. Will things change in the future? Yeah, better, it'il just come out. But today, the best job, the most preferred and will earn the best money.

But likely they made huge profits from the BNB token since the last year since it is one of the best doing crypto in terms of price so just added this to OP's statement of they are only making 7.2 million per year,they made lot more than what we think actually.

Apart from when they were hacked for thousands of bitcoin earlier this year. Oh and when they were hacked for thousands of users' KYC documents, also earlier this year. ::)

You can read the breakdown of the calculation here: https://beincrypto.com/binance-earns-more-than-20000-per-day-overcharging-on-transaction-fees/

Binance made 7 transactions in an hour, each transaction containing 36 outputs, paying a total of 0.01 BTC in mining fees. With their withdrawal fee of 0.0005, 0.0005*36*7 = 0.126 BTC charged to customers, leaving Binance with a profit of 0.116 BTC in a single hour. Multiply that by 24 to get close to 3 BTC per day. Now add in a similar calculation for all the different coins they list, and that $20k a day suddenly becomes much higher.

It's disgusting really, and Binance are probably far from being the worst offenders here. If you don't want to continue to be ripped off, then you should consider trading peer-to-peer on a DEX instead.

You mean the withdraw fee you pay when you want to withdraw funds to an external address and it's meant to cover transaction fees, right?

Companies shouldn't be making a lot of money from transaction fees, your essentially overcharging your client base in order to profit off transactions fees, which they shouldn't even make money off...

I'd assume a large amount of their profits from the exchange mostly come from the launchpad and the IEO's they hold, they charge huge fees and usually sell out on their platform.

I am not concerned about transaction fees charges, as long as the exchanges provide quality services as well
guaranteed security. But if you have objections related to transaction fees, please look for another exchanges 
with cheaper transaction fees. But the risk of each of them if a problem occurs. As long as I use binance exchanges
for trading, there is never a problem. Until now I was very satisfied with binance compared with other exchanges.

Keep in mind, we need to account for their consolidation transactions, like this one (https://btc.com/e6f982bc5e57944546cca32805f8eae642bc6c6520d94246839f4232e0d487f6). Last hour, they processed 26 such transactions and the hour before that they processed 47.

We should also account for the current low fee environment. At the height of the 2017 bull market, they were paying insane fees for their consolidation transactions. Over 1,000 satoshis per byte sometimes (https://btc.com/b9f1a778c8d2eeaf5fcc5b709373358c405ccf163463e338c61d73b3482b9191).

They may have been losing lots of money on transaction fees in that environment -- I'm not sure. Either way, it's worth noting that their costs to process deposits and withdrawals vary wildly depending on network conditions.

Maybe even more. Binance still has a lot of volume on the exchange and a lot of withdrawals of ethereum and bitcoin from where the big money are coming from so I wouldn't be surprised if BNB will rise just because of this fees as ETH withdrawal takes 0.01 ETH ...and its a lot , could be 10$ when ETH reaches 2k$. For me , this is another reason so start using DEX exchange when fees are low and gateways are perfect for low fees.

Binance earning $20K from transaction fees is not a big or small thing to take into controversy. From my understanding the primary purpose of the Binance exchange is trading of cryptocurrencies. Out of the trading there will be fee, which needs to be the earning of Binance. If the earning made is a big issue, he could've got house arrest.

binance charge $4 to so that people can take their money out of their service
i remember soo many people using paypals 20cent fee as a reason to tell others to switch to btc
i remember soo many people using western unions fee as a reason to tell others to switch to btc

heck id be pee'd off if an atm charged me anything for a withdrawal

i can kinda understand the principal. it kinda deters people withdrawing, thus keeps them trading a bit longer
but i know some businesses in the cryptosphere are getting a lil greedy

But don't forget that Binance covered the losses when the exchange was hacked. We rarely see that. Most hacked Exchange are mostly not operating anymore.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cryptolinenews.com/exchange-news/the-binance-hack-leads-to-a-42-million-loss-in-btc-dont-worry-everything-is-covered/%3famp
That's why still many people are using their service. Because they know they are covered.

Can you please tell us how you know this? Are you in charge of its security policies? Are you sleeping with CZ?

Everyone's secure until they're not. I remember a time when Mt Gox was described as 'too big to fail'. I'm sure they do their best. One day that may not be good enough. Plan accordingly.

I think the renvenue reported announced in the public is the lower trade charge from the whole and binance tell the company earn small profits. We didn't know the exact user of exchange paying transaction fees. And  as of now binance is the most reputable and trusted excahnge in the cryptp space.

there's more than one angle to this.

binance was charging the same 0.0005 BTC fee in late 2017 when bitcoin network fees were astronomically higher. if they're making money now, maybe they are making up for losses from that time. or maybe they are hedging against future spikes in network congestion.

the article doesn't give a real analysis of the actual costs binance incurs. that would require a deep analysis of their hot wallet procedures and fees paid over time. beincrypto didn't even look at total hot wallet activity---they only looked at a small sample of customer withdrawal transactions and compared it to the average network fee. it's well known that exchanges have drastically more inputs than average bitcoin users.

i'd be interested in seeing a more thorough analysis that looks at their true costs over time. i suspect the conclusions being drawn here are being drastically overstated.


at least we know it must be better than okcoin---private keys to the cold wallet were held by star xu's wife and mother! it was CZ who leaked that story after all. https://www.coindesk.com/former-exec-hits-back-at-okcoin-amid-contract-dispute

I mean look at some other exchanges fees. Yobit charges an even bigger fee and Binance's fees are on the low side when you compare them to other exchanges, and I have no doubt that there are exchanges earning close to 6 digits a day off withdraw fees...

That should be something exchanges should do either way, and they can afford the luxury of doing that. If they where hacked for a lot more, do you really think they would have paid everyone back? Hell no.

It's a problem that shouldn't be happening in the first place - and the KYC leaks that supposedly happened shouldn't be happening as well.

but dont forget they make $440k-$1.4m a day on their internal market trade fees. so they wont wont to vex all their customers over just 1-3months of internal market fees.

if thy did the 'bank run' of people escaping would cost them more than the loss.

Binance earn only $20k every day on transaction fees charge because Binance exchange have many bigger investor, they have many altcoin kinds listing on Binance and excatly earn more than $20k every day from trader fees, right now binance become most trusted exchange use by many investor not only for trader but also for IEO investor to earn profit with Binance exchange.

I think the income from the binance exchange place if it is very large is too reasonable because other exchanges are also like that, many top markets can benefit very much from the trading costs incurred by traders, that is why the business platform where the exchange is very good but keep in mind that the exchange must be able to provide a very high level of comfort and security for traders.

Transaction fees are not their only income source, because a lot of these exchanges will negotiate a fee for the listing of new coins on their exchange. So the Alt coin developers will pay lots of money to list their coins on large exchanges like this and some of the ICO's will also be charged to list these tokens on the exchange.  :P

Crypto currency exchanges are popping up like mushrooms, because it is a cash cow in the Crypto currency scene and there are 1000's of Alt coins and ICO projects looking for a home.  ;)

Transaction fees are part of the cost of doing business on an exchange. As a trader you've got to factor in all the costs associated with your trades to come up with the real PnL. I don't think that a 0.10%/side fee is an enormous amount but it could be lower of course. As far as I know they do offer fees discounts to volum traders up to 0.05% ( if I am wrong please correct me). As any company they need to make their profits from somewhere. Where do you think they get the funds to launch so many different products ..

Perhaps, they don't bother about transaction fee and so there is BNB. So far, I don't see any exchange sites that have this usage for their token, specifically the 50% off from transaction fee once you have BNB.

However, the title seems inappropriate because of the word ONLY, because 20k a day isn't just nothing!

I dont believe that binance is just earning 20k dollars a day on transaction fees. The trade fees for binance is 0.1% out of the traded cryptocurrency.  I will give you an evidence that binance is earning more than 20k dollars per day. I will place the link below that proves that  binance take home 446 million profit income from 2018. If we divide 446 million by 365 days we will get  1,221,917 US dollars. In short Binance is earning more or less an average of  million dollars a day.

https://www.theblockcrypto.com/genesis/10491/analysis-binance-brought-in-446-million-in-profits-in-2018-despite-the-bear-market

The title is wrong, correct? You mean 20,000 dollars, not 2,000 per day, right? Well, I am going to assume my posts under this statistic.

I don't think that's a small amount to be making for basically doing nothing. Does electrum, or a ledger wallet charge you extra fees just to send BTC (other than the network fees of course)? Of course not.

I don't understand why exchanges are given the privilege to do so, people used to complain about Paypal fees, but isn't this the same? They charge almost 5 dollars for something that should cost 50 cents, that's basically free money.

I understand that they are a business and need to be able to milk their profits off all their ventures, but there needs to be some rules about this overcharging.

ofcourse is nothing and I am sure most of it is hidden and concealed from the General Public. There is no way that they get such a low income each day. This is the problem with crypto world. There are no particular norms relating to financial reporting so all the incomes and assets of the company can be easily concealed. Moreover Binance is registered in Malta so pays taxes in Malta which is a tax Heaven therefore tax concealment too is a bit easier there. I think Binance are concealing lots of profits.

binance is superior to other exchanges because they have their own coins like BNB we know that BNB coins are coins issued by binance exchanges and now we see that BNB coins are among coins whose prices are always stable so we can say that binance exchanges have more lots of income especially if added to profit every exchange will definitely get a lot of income at the end of each month.

It's not actually shocking for us. We all know that binance is one of the largest and one of the popular exchange nowadays.
Binance is most used because of its security, and aside from its fee, most of its users find it reasonable because of the service it is given to its users.

Reading the many reactions from members here, it is quite obvious that Binance as a cryptocurrency exchange can be a polarizing subject. There are those who maybe reluctantly agreeing with the fees that Binance are charging, there are those who don't mind the fees as long as they get what they want and of course there are those who seem to never like the centralized Binance platform as a whole. I have an account in Binance but I only use it whenever there is a token that I need to liquidate and it is already traded in that platform...am not yet doing regular trading and in many cases I don't mind the fees they are charging.

However, I feel that as consumers, these things have to discussed openly who knows Binance can be reading this piece and they can come up with something more acceptable. By the way, am wondering what about the Binance DEX, is that something better or just a new dog with a different collar?

In any case Binance is a big exchange so they should earn enough on fees.

It's expected, there's a lot of traders in binance. Every transaction they have a percentage. If we include even the withdrawal fee's its no wonder why they can earn up to $20,000 per day. Considering the largest cryptocurrency exchange, they still continue to give satisfaction to all of us its users.

the exchange has not made a public announcement on this, it can be argued that by charging 0.0005 BTC per transaction now, Binance will be able to compensate for any loss, with bitcoin transaction fees never seen in the late peak. Must rise back to level. 2019. After all, the transaction hour we have considered is an average hour for Binance, the platform can generate around $ 22,000 per day in bitcoin transaction fees alone. :P

Before we comment further, we should know the amount that they charge for every single transaction and the average number of transactions that happens on a daily basis. Yobit is currently charging the equivalent of $9 with each withdrawal with Binance charges the same or more then I will not be surprised with the amount that are reported to be making.

If you think that Binance is the most trusted and secure exchange in the bitcoin market then we have a big problem here as the most secure exchanged got short changed for $40 million by the hackers this year alone  :P and if your version of secure is like this then it is hard to understand the logic behind it, they are making almost billions of dollars annually as per the reports and they could not have a secure system is ridiculous.

If you look at the reported volume per day they have a volume of $797,280,406 and the amount of fees they get with every trade per day is much higher than any other ventures in the market and on top of that they are charging a withdrawal fees for every individual of 0.0005BTC while the transaction fees is really low in bitcoin and majority of the exchanges are following these practices even now and no one is questioning these encourages them to continue that fees, personally i am not trading with Binance nor any centralized exchanges as all of my trading are done through P2P exchanges.

That is the best way to say it.  Not mentioning their manipulated pump and dump of these token that use their IEO launchpad.  They made huge money on these price manipulation.  Aside from that they also have listing fees for both their DEX and Centralized exchange.

But $20k profit for binance exchange is a bit small considering that it's the largest exchange by volume, maybe this could be due to the situation of the market. If Binance makes $20k, how much then does smaller exchanges make? They have a load of staff to take care of.

Binance has many other sources for it's revenue and trading fees is just one of them.

In this recent article, https://www.binance.com/en/blog/391462665575727104/9th-BNB-Burn-Q3-2019-Recap-from-CZ

Binance said they burned BNB worth  $36,700,000 in a quarter. Binance uses 20% of it's profit to burn BNB, that makes the profit of Binance around $183,500,000 per quarter i.e. more than $2M in a day.

I still don't believe that exactly is the profit of the exchange from the fees. Though they have one of the lowest fees and even further discount through BNB, their volume is very high.
What's your source?

the revenue of a huge altcoin exchange such as Binance is ridiculously higher than what you can even begin to imagine because their revenue is not at all from their trading fees or things like that so they don't care about paying such transaction fees.
for starters they are in full control of the altcoin market and with that they can pump and dump any altcoin they want which is generating them hundreds of thousands of dollars per pump. not to mention that they have a centralized coin that they are creating with no cost and selling it at a high price!

20k per day is not bad in my opinion. But yes, i tought that binance is earning much more

I accept that. But even if we overestimate and say they are processing 50 such transactions an hour every hour non stop, and we accept the fee of the transaction you have linked as average even though the vast majority of consolidation transactions have total fees far below that, we are still only talking about 0.6 BTC per day. 3 BTC or 2.4 BTC, either way, they are taking in a lot of money by overcharging on withdrawal fees.

Agreed again. But surely this is an argument for variable fees then? And there is no need to pay over 1,000 sats a byte, especially not for a consolidation transaction. Even during the absolute highest fee peak (December 22nd/23rd 2017, if I remember correctly), that fee would have been overkill. They have more than enough in their hot wallet that they could set a fee of 10% of that and wait a day or two.

So yeah, I agree that the initial figure is probably an overestimate, but regardless of how you cut it, Binance are making a nice profit from overcharging for withdrawals. And if I recall correctly, Binance actually have one of the lower bitcoin withdrawal fees. (Someone correct me if I'm wrong here - I don't use centralized exchanges).

Yes for sure they are earning more that that, imagine how many users are trading, withdrawing on their platform everyday, and trading fee is 0.1% if you are not using BNB as a fee, so for sure they are earning $100k-1M everyday, it is possible. Especially in listing, as they do have the highest listing fee .

Good for them. In that way, they can be able to get rich without doing nothing and only by collecting charges or fees in their traders or investors. Imagine every day how many transactions they can have. I think they are earning more rather than the investors only by those charges. I didn't have doubts about them since they are a very well known exchange site. Traders' choice is Binance and the majority of traders using Binance and that is worth it to them.

Having your own tokens takes your earnings to another level, Using the money you've gathered by selling off those tokens and using it to generate new businesses.
Does Binance have any other business other than their Exchange?

In my view this is a very good income , they certainly have a good profit. They cant be burning 20k a day in their salaries and other expenses. Building a multi million business from nothing is a huge success in anyway you look.
In addition think of other revenues which they get - ads on their platforms and listing fees.

Obviously fees from transaction fees aren't there only source of revenue so as other companies do. They also have IEOs and other projects that they can have revenue with. But do not expect that the 7.2 million is gained whole as they also have operating cost involved from salaries of their employees to fixed costs such as rents and server operations. With that kind of expenses you know why some exchanges downsize or worst don't even last it's because their income isn't fixed while their expenses remains the same.

You forgot to add the letter "k" to binary daily income, anyways from where did you get this data? . Here is a list of OKEX fees that list their fees https://www.okex.com/pages/products/fees.html (https://www.okex.com/pages/products/fees.html). I would rather stay on the binance exchanger, even though the fee in my opinion is rather decent, but the volume of transactions is large.

Binance is bigger exchange market so far than Kucoin, gate and Bittrex. Binance exchange market have many big investor buy or hold altcoin assets on binance exchange, binance owner very happey with many investor trusted with binance than other exchange market because have many altcoin listed in Binance, they intrested with exchange available with thousand altcoin kind in exchange listed.

In my opinion, it is better to pay more fees and get more security, knowing that your money will be safe. I agree with you that Binance seems to be the most secure exchange now. CZ is doing well

Big or small is relative. Transaction fees determined by an exchange must have been adjusted to operational needs and various factors that affect the convenience of the user. The managerial team would understand more, if they make the wrong calculation the company could get a deficit, whereas that doesn't happen right?

This is an important point. There are many sources of income that can make money, especially for global exchange such as binance which has a very good reputation. Not only from transaction fees, but also from various events and cooperation carried out.

Exchanges needs funds to operate so if they only collect the fee for miners then how they will be able to provide better service so giving them a small amount is worthy and they have least withdrawal fee compared to other,for example in yobit 0.0012BTC as withdrawal fee irrespective of how small or big we are withdrawing.

Binance is my favourite exchange and the only one where I leave a few coins with open orders. Their fees are very user friendly in comparison with other exchanges.
I've used hitBTC for example, and the fees were really high... so high, that I've quickly stopped using it...
don't know about Huobi, never used it, but everyone says it is a good exchange

You shouldn't be keeping any balances on any exchange in the first place.

Just because someone is well known isn't a guarantee that they will continue to uphold security anyways. But of course track record is a key indicator.

I think you're missing the point here - Binance's security has nothing to do with whether or not they charge higher withdrawal fees. They can clearly at least reduce the fees by letting the user choose their own fee level. Even at 10k sats per withdrawal, they'd still be making a very sizable profit.

Yeah. It's not a big deal since their service ans transaction were realtime and didn't get any issue doing trades or making a withdraw or deposit and i feel my funds are secured.

Big difference with other exchanges that has high fees, stuck confirmation, and delay on making a withdrawal even though the traneaction is already completed.