Bitcoin Forum

I thought it might be easier if some of the cross thread discussions lenders and borrowers are having concerning assorted difficulties with the Lightning Nodes could be discussed here.

Reserved #1

LN Wallets:

• Eclair -
• Zap - http://zap.jackmallers.com/download
• BlueWallet - https://bluewallet.io/
  https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.bluewallet.bluewallet
  https://apps.apple.com/app/bluewallet-bitcoin-wallet/id1376878040
  They provide active support through Telegram (link on their website).

Channels that link back to you:

Testnet Faucets:

• https://htlc.me/

Gambling sites with LN Nodes:

• lightningslotmachine.com - 039f01ad62e5208940faff11d0bbc997582eafad7642aaf53de6a5f6551ab73400 (https://1ml.com/node/039f01ad62e5208940faff11d0bbc997582eafad7642aaf53de6a5f6551ab73400)
• BC.GAME - 0274a542b693385f9e38d7acf4017ed31748d00693ff219c54e1b33749595a7419 (https://1ml.com/node/0274a542b693385f9e38d7acf4017ed31748d00693ff219c54e1b33749595a7419)

How to get some inbound capacity:

Participants of this thread with Nodes:

• DaveF:
  
  

  03400a67375da5d5d04dd59514452ce9f0cadb2fbec65863073897d52843b61c80@24.45.24.105:9735
  03400a67375da5d5d04dd59514452ce9f0cadb2fbec65863073897d52843b61c80@whacker.cas8.com:9735

  
  
  Two different addresses, but the same channel.
  
  

Other threads with LN themes:

• ⚡ The coolest LN services ⚡ (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5218960.0)

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Reserved #2

I had to restart my PC with the Zap wallet on it now the Zap wallet isn't booting - can't find the peers list.  Am searching for the Zap & Eclair threads here. (Am having a whole other kind of issue with Eclair at the moment).

You mean BlueWallet (note: LN-funds are custodial in this wallet):
https://bluewallet.io/
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.bluewallet.bluewallet
https://apps.apple.com/app/bluewallet-bitcoin-wallet/id1376878040
They provide active support through Telegram (link on their website).

Thanks - have updated the OP.

If you want some inbound capacity for loaning or testing ping out to me and I'll open a channel with $20 (or more or less if you want)

I was also thinking of starting a free "service" I don't really know what else to call it for node naming for people with static public IP addresses.
So instead of xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx@ip.address:port
you could have xxxxxxxxxxxxx@yourname.LIGHTNING.NINJA:port
It would have to be static as I can't run a dynamic DNS server so you give me your IP and I add the host to the server and I'm done.

-Dave

So I have small channels open to two members here. If they want to come forward and say who they are they can I will not without their OK.
But, if you want to open a small channel let me know, yes you can open big ones with one of the big players but I think it would be nice to keep small ones open between members.

-Dave

I have a feeling my two ISP's are not static, hence my nodes/wallets don't show up.

I connected to you via both addresses a couple of days ago. I'd appreciate more connections, but it isn't urgently needed.

Is this one of your connections?

https://i.imgur.com/H8nmPIRm.png (https://imgur.com/H8nmPIR)

If so it's set to private (The lncli openchannel command has a --private option) so it's not going to show.

If it's not you then no big deal, if it is and you did not specify private then there is another issue.
I just see 2 private connections with the same remote alias.

-Dave

Yes it is - There wasn't any choices to make private/public out of the box install.  Not to worry, I have a feeling my ISP rotates the IP address from time to time.

I'll see if I can connect via my trouble plagued Eclair wallet.

Did you close one and try to re-open it?
I now have 2 pending open channels. One has been out there for a while I just saw the other one pop up, do not know when, but it's just sitting out there.
And your other channel seems to have dropped.
-Dave

I haven't been able to do much this week, so I've just closed one channel as they both pointed to the same location.

I did try to open a channel via Eclair but the message popped up "could not broadcast TX to the network", so it could well be that it is/but it isn't trying to connect.  If you're able to close the attempted connection from your end, I'd appreciate it.

I do not think I can close it because they are not open. My side is still waiting on your side or there was something you sent that lnd did not like. Will have to check a bit more to see what is up.

-Dave

Are you just trying to open a channel?

What address is funding it, can you look at it on a blockchain explorer?

I could try opening one with you but all I have is éclair?

Edit: opening a channel soon.

Actually, if you could try to open one to me with eclair that would be an good test too.
Is it something with Timelord2067 trying to connect to my node or is it something with eclair trying to connect to my node.

I am about to go to sleep, it's been a busy couple of days, so I will check back in the morning here (GMT -5)

-Dave

As I said in the other thread, I wasn't paying attention when I connected to the two addresses which were the same node, but different IP's. I've cancelled one for the time being.

I'm giving it a go anyway.

@tl you did an uncooperative close or a double spend?

Edit channel is open with 0.00392856

The channel to you is on my Zap wallet.  All the issues are on Eclair. (that's not to say a double spend isn't out of the question. I have no way of knowing as transactions were coming and going at the same time.)

It won't be a double spend then. Almost every time you do a double spend you have to know you've done it (on most wallets). I haven't found one that doesn't...

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Can you find the 2of2 multisig address then? You should be able to see where the funds came back into your account and you can just send that address or txid then.

It'll have a multisig input script if you want to know what it'll look like on a blockchain explorer but anything in the link posted is enough for us to find it.

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OK, there's 0.00432483 that is a lost TX sent 8394ba975c7cbde33af61873bd467055cbb8e7e6192054b93a7415065157eb23 (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/8394ba975c7cbde33af61873bd467055cbb8e7e6192054b93a7415065157eb23) from my tablet Eclair to my mobile phone Eclair. (mentioned in PM previously to LoyceV)

Then there are two "unconfirmed" TX for channels being opened

0.0010528 TX 7da61cc308c27a2e70e9fcf114a2a44425a87e833dcf9fde59457940ebb89777 (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/7da61cc308c27a2e70e9fcf114a2a44425a87e833dcf9fde59457940ebb89777)

0.0010801 TX bda728fcee84f76ccc193a156786bcee4475c69171e81cbb9aa6e0449a34c9a1 (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/bda728fcee84f76ccc193a156786bcee4475c69171e81cbb9aa6e0449a34c9a1)

then I have on my Eclair mobile phone - on the block-chain 0.00251849

the last two TX outbound from the on-chain wallet are

0.00010495 TX 71b778d03b7893b73ac743a04bbccea76fe93ce49bd5964b0541ea8e395aaf81 (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/71b778d03b7893b73ac743a04bbccea76fe93ce49bd5964b0541ea8e395aaf81)

0.0010765 TX c3caaed89b5595d79d102734748837a9c5891a27aa2c2bd7ca1fb41e2f2c33b8 (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/c3caaed89b5595d79d102734748837a9c5891a27aa2c2bd7ca1fb41e2f2c33b8)

and finally some dust in the three open channels - I've managed in the last two days to slowly withdraw just over 0.0015 to a "Blue" Wallet which is a whole other post about how I am growing to like Blue, but I share LoyceV's concerns about the proprietary aspect of the "Blue" wallet structure.

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In saying all of the above transactions,

• the 0.00432483 shows as confirmed on the block-chain, but did not "appear" in the Eclair wallet.
• the 0.0010528 channel shows as "unconfirmed" on Eclair but confirmed on the block-chain
• the 0.0010801 channel shows as "unconfirmed" on Eclair but confirmed on the block-chain
• the on chain tx 0.00010495 arrived in the blue wallet as did
• the on chain tx 0.0010765 which also arrived in the Blue wallet.
  
  I believe the unspent 0.00083229 change may not part of the block-chain 0.00251849 but I have nothing to show as evidence of that assertion.

There is a total of 0.00027500042 on the LN according to Eclair. (the three open channels I have managed to empty to my Blue wallet)

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On my Blue wallet, I now have 0.0001 on chain and 0.00150845 on LN. (the latter got shifted in increasingly tiny amounts 1500 - 2500 sats, so there were more than a dozen TX's involved. All of these funds came from the mobile phone's Eclair wallet.  The remaining balances are after these funds were sent)

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Loyce sent me a link to a diagnostic to delve into the back end of the wallet but I haven't been able to find what I was looking for.

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Loyce also mentioned the check Eclair app feature - I've run it a couple of times and I'm still in the same situation.

It's just easy to use :)

This is the weirdest one, as it has nothing to do with LN. If 3Hn6UVrbLmiV16ya4stoPtunGBjkzoLNig is part of your wallet, it should show up. If that addy is not part of your Eclair wallet, you somehow got the wrong address.
Have you tried installing Eclair on another device with the same seed phrase?

Is this the same Eclair wallet?

Is that the channel reserve? So if you close it, it goes to fees?

One of the things I disliked in Eclair was that my sending capacity varies depending on the momentary on-chain fee. I assume this is because the channel reserve varies *so there's enough to force-close the channel when needed), but I don't like the way "chain problems" are transfered into LN.

I did?

Loyce may be becoming a politician ;D.

I'm using eclair at the moment, the fearutes are fairly basic afaik. You can set a fee when you open a channel and that's probably about it (although you can see balances in fiat too which probably isn't much of a feature - they all do that).

I'd check who sent that diagnostic tool and check that you can trust it, you might end up compromising your channels and their funds if you make a mistake and an old CT is broadcast (assuming those rules are implemented). If it was you with the pending channels, you might want to close active ones for a while while you run the diagnostic too just to be on the safe side (but that's just my two cents on the matter)... I'm kinda curious if that was just that a redemption transaction went unbroadcast because you had no funds to take out of the channel or something like that...

All of the above transactions are the mobile phone Eclair wallet.

The link from Loyce was a web page to enter the /12/24 passwords and delve into the various wallet addresses.  My mistake is I don't seem to have written down the passwords for the Eclair wallet in question.

the dust in the LN for the three channels open is the held for closing funds, so there wouldn't be any point in closing those three which are all now max inbound.  I'm wondering if the two "unconfirmed" channels (that have been confirmed on the block-chain) are still in operation and might still work with the inbound channels? If a stray TX were to come via any of the three inbounds and go out via the two "unconfirmed" channels, then I could simply leave the Eclair wallet running from time to time and then shift any inbound back out again?

Afaik you can't have a channel without any funds in it...

There's a minimum amount you can have in a channel.

Like the one I opened with whacker/daveF has a limit of 40 micro btc.

One has seven and a bit satoshis, the other 235 and a bit satoshis and the third has a shave over a thousand satoshis that can be sent. (the balances total 0.00027500042 in the three channels).

Two started with 0.01 and 0.011 balances and the third was, um 0.0011 starting balance.

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The 0.0010528 and 0.0010801 "unconfirmed" (but in reality actually are confirmed) balances probably make up the 0.00251849 on-chain balance that can't be moved to another wallet address.

Ian Coleman's Mnemonic Code Converter (https://iancoleman.io/bip39/) (this should only be used offline, ideally from a LIVE Linux DVD so that all traces are gone when you turn off the computer).

So you can't use the wallet and can't find your addresses using the backup words?

I'm not sure what exactly you're going at here, but I'm pretty sure you need to be a node to route other transactions.

I'm still clueless how this happened O0

Yup, that's a mistake I can call my own.

I just took a screenshot, any chance you did?

My favorite password to try is 000000.
Eclair only uses 6 digits, that password should be easy to brute force, if there's any software that does it.

I've got the six number password, but I don't seem to have written down the twelve/twenty-four word password.

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Screenshot of ??

My nmonic seed words.

Can you backup the app data just to be sure?

I can't find the option to export the mnemonic again in Eclair, but if you have the password and the wallet itself works, that means the wallet has the mnemonic stored somewhere. Eclair is open source, so it must be possible to get the mnemonic out somehow. It's probably not worth the effort (yet) though for 0.004BTC.

Which is why I'm happy to keep it on standby and use Blue for small amount testing. (and yes, I have the 24 word password written down)

Did you also backup the Lightning wallets within BlueWallet? That's a separate backup, and each new wallet needs a new backup. I used to take a picture of the QR-code, but the latest version allows to copy the code to clipboard so I've emailed it to myself. Not very secure, but I don't mind for small amounts.

I don't even have an on-chain wallet in BlueWallet anymore: I can fund the LN-wallet from any other Bitcoin wallet directly, and if I want to get funds back on-chain I use an external exchange.

It probably is secure enough to push your channel backup to your emails... The 12/24 word seed keys should be used for the signing derived from your mnemonic.

@TL, if you don't want to lose it/want to expand your channels more then you can always transfer the funds to the new wallet.

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Does my personal text look alright? I can't work out what to call it that'll fie in the length limit.

Yes - I've got all wallets (Zap on PC, Eclair on Tablet and now Blue on Mobile) - just not the first Eclair on mobile.


Done (see above)


On my mobile up to the arrow are on one line then the rest.

On my PC, the whole lot are on one line. It conveys the message.

Someone had an issue of sending a certain amount of funds on one of the threads above a certain amount and I think I know the issue...

From what I can tell, each node will have a limit of how much it wants to dedicate to a HTLC (which is the contract of a hop from one channel to another). It's normally a fraction of what is held in the channel afaik but it's set because anything that goes into a HTLC is locked from everyone until it either expires or the receiver of the funds receives it.

For example, if me and timelord do a transaction and we both have a channel open with ACINQ, the funds would go: Timelord → ACINQ → jackg

However they're locked for a certain amount of time so

	Locked for 2 days		Locked for a day
Timelord	→	Acinq	→	jackg

Funds aren't normally locked for long as a new Commitment Transaction can be generated to invalidate the HTLC but it still exists if one party becomes uncompliant so their funds are locked up...

As a courtesy I'm letting you know that I've closed my Lightning Network test&main net lending tread for the time being.

I'll leave this tread open for anyone who wants information on the LN.

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While I'll stop well short of  saying this has been an abject failure, both Éclair (main&testnets) wallets are now frozen with =< 0.01 main and 3.8 testnet frozen/lost (which took me a while of faucet scrounging to accumulate). The Zap wallet does not appear to allow inbound connections and the Blue Wallet is purportedly proprietary with no way to connect to other nodes, little or no transaction information being some of the issues I've encountered.

I'm an advocate for the Lightning Network, but these three programs have a way to go.

Wait how/why are they frozen? I might be able to take a look at them but youd have to trust me with your seed (encrypted with an address I present)...

You can track all your funds anyway since you know the address though that they're in.

How did they get stuck can you see what's going on from there - we can try remotely fixing it can you not take the channel offline (I have telegram @jackg54 if you want to contact me to see if we can fix it) ? (I don't really know how testnet works either).

I had hoped lightning with electrum would be released a lot faster than this however I'll leave my thread open in case there's any interest (bumping occasionally).

I appreciate the offer. We've been discussing the issue in our three threads (yours, mine and Loyce) over many weeks now.

I'm not walking away from LN, just not offering a testing loan service. The two loan threads are enough for now.

Need a favor. Can someone tell me if this QR code works? Trying to do something and I don't have my phone or tablet handy.

https://i.imgur.com/Zzk0oAFm.png (https://imgur.com/Zzk0oAF)

And if it does work what invoice info do you see?
I have been trying to script auto-generating invoices with QR codes and emailing them. I think I finally got it working.

Thanks,
Dave

"Test" and the amount 30,000 sats.

Having said that Blue took a really long time to think about it before displaying that & also took a longer time to process payment (I *think* it's gone through) + 154 minutes to expiry.

Please repay at:


(one day expiry)

*edit* Payment received.

Paid back. Thanks. Actually took 4 hops to get to you. Never seen that much routing for that small an amount before.
So the good news is that I can auto generate an invoice with a QR code and email it.
The bad news is, for some reason I can only do it once and then lnd refuses to do it a second time without a restart. Since I can generate them by hand through SSH it has to be something with my shitty code.
This is why I like playing with hardware more then software. Guess I am sticking with btcpay server for now.

-Dave

Glad to help - is BTCpay a LN wallet, or online exchange?

It's a self hosted payment server for BTC and Lightning.
I was trying to integrate it for my own use for when I send QuickBooks invoices. There is a kludge that does work, tried to do it my way. I wanted to send the invoice from QBooks and have a QR code attached to it with a lightning invoice that then got emailed to my customer.

https://btcpayserver.org/ (https://btcpayserver.org/)

-Dave

Am just having a look around the website - looks good.

I've just connected to what I *think* is the bitpay LN node: https://1ml.com/node/0348eb55a7cd2332c3bcf5cf1bd81732d96d99caa56290de57eb02fac3c997d217 (at least it's not a (dot)onion web address)

What language are you trying to script in there? Bash, python, c?

I'd recommend trying python if you know how to use it as it's going to be easier than anything else, unless qrencode (that''s installed with bitcoin core) is able to handle it...

I  was using PHP, because the rest of the ticketing system is written in it so I went in with the attitude of how hard can this be.
The biggest issue (outside of the I am not a programmer) is that the person who wrote it thought they were the worlds best programmer and did a lot of work adding features that were never going to be used to make it "better". Do you really need the ability to change the font on the trouble ticket depending on the customer? And I kept running into those issues. (i.e. jobdescript2font undefined added that in the ini file and then jobdescript3font undefined)

Probably going to table it for now until we update QBooks after tax season. This way if anything else changes with it I Am not doing this again.

-Dave

I have never done anything with php and probably won't for a while either.

If they've just put a load of random stuff together though it might not be the most secure thing to run for sending out invoices...

Does quickbooks work with bitcoin? I don't really have to worry about taxes as they just ask for estimates here so I try to give as accurate as possible but they don't care so much if somethings submitted wrong (especially if you overpay or it doesn't affect tax). (I normally just copy and pasta a column in electrum).

It's actually fairly secure since outside of the email server and the very basic front end for techs it's all offline in it's own little bubble.
The short version is enter ticket info. It sits there till someone goes to QBooks and pulls it. QBooks then emails the invoice using the email server info. The email server in QB is not a "real" email server. It looks and feels like it to QB and the other apps, but it's a bunch of PHP code that pulls together the invoice generated by QB, the trouble ticket / work order / any other documentation in the system and then it sends it to the real email server to be sent out.

So I go out in the field and install a UPS that is one of the stock ones we have.
I put it in the trouble ticket. The next morning the billing person pulls the info and sends the bill. You get an email with the bill, the list of work that I did and and PDF documentation about the UPS that we pre-loaded in the system.

That all works really well, just making changes is a pain.

-Dave

@DaveF - is your application anything like this: Finmail - Send Bitcoin together with Email (Approved by Microsoft) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5142097.0) which I just stumbled up on in another section of the forum.

No, someone wrote a custom piece of code. It's just pulling in and then sending it out. Not sending / receiving any payments just wanted to try to stick QR codes on the invoices.

-Dave

My connection to your node is closing, are you changing your settings?

Sorry, posted this in another thread. Had HW issues.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5158920.msg53707192#msg53707192 (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5158920.msg53707192#msg53707192)
It's back up now. Still doing some other testing to make sure everything else is good.
-Dave

Have (re)connected to:

and looks to be connecting ok.

I was about to ask if anyone knew of a link for the Wallet of Satoshi APK that doesn't involve google/apple stores, but then I saw this:

https://www.walletofsatoshi.com/disclosure.html


which seems to me as though they have a propriety wallet similar to Blue Wallet but more draconian.

Hmmmm yeah they don't look like a good choice. Honestly custodial wallets for the lightning network seem a bad idea unless you won't be online for 2 weeks. Other than that, you should have enough time to publish a dispute or sign a new commitment transaction.

Lightning network keys must stay online permenantly so it's much less secure than a regular custodian like coinbase.

I have to have my mobile phone off at various times during the day - same for any person whose battery goes flat / power outage etc.   At some point you're going to disconnect from the network.

I did have a chuckle at the counter - the trailing white number is intended to be a fraction - which shows my age I can recall motor-vehicles having such a "feature" in their speedometer.

I'm not sure if that means $1000 as a total balance, or the total amount deposited. If it's the latter, you'll reach it eventually even if you only use the wallet for small amounts at a time.

Yesterday, Wallet of Satoshi didn't allow me to send larger amounts: 3000 sat worked, but 4000 sat didn't work. Today it works again.
Those things are annoying, but all the more reason to spread custodial funds over different wallets.

I just don't want the hassle of opening and balancing channels. Custodial wallets are much easier.

I wonder how BlueWallet for instance secures their funds against theft (because of a bug or hack).

What I do like about the BLUE LN wallet is that you can deposit on-chain funds directly to your LN wallet and then send them on as LN transactions.  Not sure about the hotwallet, they must have thought of that (!) and slowly / trickle feed a portion into a cold wallet to prevent disasters.

Then again, if a wallet goes offline, those funds could get put into (semi)cold storage until the wallet itself becomes hot/active again then they are on "stand-by" (or some sort of rob Peter to pay Paul set-up)

Yeah, if you're not assigned your own channel then it is possible they just have a few % on the ln.

But if they get a lot of use then they'll need someone monitoring the refills and it might take a while to get your funds though.

But it's generally the same with exchanges anyway.

[quote author=HCP link=topic=5186778.msg53812288#msg53812288 date=1581363998]
As it turns out... I found a little Lightning TestNet faucet/test thing: https://htlc.me/

They'll give you some free TestNet funds to play with... ;)
https://talkimg.com/images/2023/05/17/blob89f6e55be4d172ce.png
[/quote]

Have updated post #2 with this link.  Many thanks.

Has anyone tried out Phoenix https://phoenix.acinq.co/download - it seems to be Android only (side by side with Eclair) I'm wondering what people think of it??  If it's okay I might try getting the LN for testing purposes started up again.

I can test it out for you since I might include it in one of my future threads. Is there anything you would like to know in particular?

Thanks for your reply.

I downloaded the app (twice) did a virus scan (also twice) copied via cable to my android phone and both times I get the error message:


I was wondering if the block chain tx fees are similar to Éclair's or are inflated like Blue's?

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I've also updated my Éclair wallet and the stuck/unconfirmed transactions haven't been unstuck.

Has anyone tried BitWallet App (https://www.bitwallet.org/)? What's it like? Does it have a Lightning Network function?

I can't find anything that says it is, looks pretty new though... Potentially not the first time I've heard the name so they may have rebranded or the other one I've heard may no longer exist.

Will be back in operation around about June 01, 2020, 02:00:00 AM (your local time) for main-net and test-net lightning network loans up to seven days duration after having managed to finally get all my funds out of the old Éclair wallet and install a new Éclair wallet with healthy inbound and outbound capacity.  Main-net: (Inbound BTC 0.02 and outbound BTC 0.005 - Test-net is similar)

I have about 150k Sats. Does anyone want to open a Channel? PM Me :)