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The idea of free will originates from the concept that human neurophysiology allows for an individual to make a conscious choice about one's actions prior committing and executing that action. However, where does the "thought" of committing an action originate from?

Many argue that free will constitutes your inner consciousness which allow you to think of doing actions before you execute them. However, if any choice that an individual makes derives from consciousness, which is simply neuronal electrical firings deep within the cerebral cortex, mere repeated biochemical reactions, is that choice actually produced by free will of an individual?

Any thought that proceeds through your consciousness is a mere supplementation to your previous thought. Meaning, anything that you think of is a result of a previous neuronal action influencing another neuronal action producing a thought, which gives the perception of free will. At any given moment, you can't actually say what you're going to think of next until it happens. There isn't any thought process that goes into what you're going to think of next, it just happens.

You can try this experiment yourself. Think of any number randomly in your mind right now. Then ask yourself, at what point during your thought process did you single out that number? What internal factors within your consciousness allowed you to pick that number? Of course, external environmental factors could prime you to pick a certain number, but this doesn't lend credence to the idea that you yourself determined a number based upon your own free will. Point being, you did not and cannot originate the source of the number you just picked.

Any thoughts you had prior to picking your number is the action of firing neurons in which EEG electrical activity rises. This electrical activity within your brain influenced other neurons to fire causing your conscious to derive and produce a number. You cannot pinpoint nor did you control any of these neuronal firings within the process of selecting a number. Does this suggest free will is an illusion?

For free will to exist and for you to make a truly "conscious" decision would be for some you, whatever "you" may be, to be fully aware of all the internal factors within your mind, every neurotransmitter, every neuronal synapse, and every biochemical reaction occurring within your brain and manipulating these factors in order to produce some sort of output. Granted it isn't possible to have access to every neurotransmitter, every neuronal synapse, and every biochemical reaction occurring within your mind, how could free will exist?



The existence of free will, or the lack thereof, fundamentally changes how society should operate. If free will doesn't exist, should criminals be held accountable for their actions? This isn't as crazy as it might seem. The U.S. already accepts the plea of insanity in which an individual is not held responsible for a crime they commit by reason of mental illness. This does not mean the individual is not separated from society, but it does mean the individual is not held liable for their crimes. I am not advocating that we do not hold criminals liable for crimes, however it poses the question of why a criminal may act in the first place and whether any crime committed is truly the result of one's free will or is laid at the feet of determinism.

free will is simply the ability to choose.
its the difference between deciding to take a shower or staying in bed stinking for days.

sub-consciousness is when repeating a choice/task. it becomes automated and like muscle memory

we do have free will because even though we dont consciously say breathe in breathe out. we do have the ability to over-ride the automated muscle memory to hold our breathe or hyperventiate at any time we choose.

in society having free will is about our choices. but politically/legally some choices do come with consequences

we have free will if in a healthy state of mind. but that is why in courts they have a 'clause' to not convict someone that is not mentally competent, but instead put them into a mental institution(patient not convict)

Cause and effect controls what we call free will. The things you ate last night for supper change your electrolytes in your brain, so it makes different choices. There are all kinds of other stimuli that change your free will base.

There is free will. But it is totally different than what we generally think.

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Yes most Humans have free will, this can be seen in he area of choice and act of preference when it come to some certain matter, ideas, discussion, or National issues. And we  see people contradicts each other. Most of the time it may be personal. In the Bible God said " My thought for you is of good and not evil, to give you an expected end" This is the will of God for all His Followers. irrespective of what people say or do that is a free will of God for his followers. So also, like Adam has a free will to name every animal God created with its name,that is his free will, and what ever name Adam called the animal,that is the name such animals bears till date.It is  possible if Eve was allowed to name the animals as regarding her free will to do that, the names of some of the animals we have in the world today might be different.

Again, the thing that is called free choice, is really controlled by stimuli build up over time, caused by biochemical activity in body and brain. It isn't free choice in the way we understand freedom. It is controlled by physics.

True free choice is basically the extent to which we accept God, spiritually... in a way that is unknown as to how it works. Then, God takes our free choice decision regarding our faith in Him, and provides the artificial free choice in the biochemical arena, and in what happens in our lives.

It's completely different than simple free choice... like which side of the bed should I get out on this morning. It is completely controlled by God regarding the results... not that it isn't free will or free choice in some of the basics regarding how much faith we have in God.

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For individuals, yes.
As multiple groups or even as a whole,no.

I'm pretty sure what you've stated is the process of decision making, which isn't really considered as free will.

Process differs from the action, and then there's also the subconscious action where the process is forgotten and the action is just taken. Free will is basically you creating a decision, much like creating something, aka the result. The process of creation is the whatever thingy majig you said, that is imo only.

Humans are (a little bit advanced) animals. Just like any other animal, they follow their instincts.

It is a very basic diagram:

https://images2.imgbox.com/c8/15/Ad1HLvih_o.png
source: https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

Even animals want to experience "friendship, family, sense of connection", they only lack the top 2 parts of the pyramid.  (that's the part which makes us advanced)

One way or another we all follow this algorithm.

But the process of creation is what "free will" is described as. Whenever you choose to do something, like writing out the text you just typed, the decision on whether or not to write that was part of your "free will". How did you actually choose to write the post, though? Your cerebral cortex went through biochemical reactions which influenced your consciousness to create the post. On another note, free will tends to be more of an illusion more than anything. The feeling that you have when making decisions cloaks itself with the perception of free will when in reality its predicated on neuronal firings deep within the brain causing you to feel as if you're the one in control of the decisions you're making. The contemplation process isn't something that's organic or something that you can physically control.

Free will is actually a controversial topic because what we have come to know as free will might have been fostered upon us by society, parent, economy, friends or government as the case maybe in our subconscious state. Some people have chosen a religion today thinking they have a free will to do that forgetting the fact that its actually because their parents are practicing that religion and have been raised in that path which means it was actually chosen for them. The same goes for the course other people study in school or the woman they marry, the career they followed among other things down to the political party one choose to support among other factors.

^^ Absolutely.

The thing we are lacking is a way to subjectively/objectively analyze the soul (whatever that is). It is in the soul where the true free will resides.

The second thing we are lacking is a way to analyze how God converts our soul's free will into the activity that our soul is choosing. Why, most scientists don't have any kind of a handle on what God really is. Many think that He doesn't exist.

Personally, I think that the connection of the soul to the body is in a recently discovered part of the brain. Newly Discovered Brain Region Helps Make Humans Unique - https://www.livescience.com/42897-unique-human-brain-region-found.html.

I think that this part of the brain controls shapes - like the tetrahedron - and those that are far more complex. The shapes are made out of electrons and protons - and other brain chemicals - and play on the structure of the emptiness that we call empty space, or nothingness... something that we commonly know very little about.

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It is indeed something to be thought about but then will I be willingly think about will-power or your post made me do it?!

Well this can be a little complex but if we think it alright, free will does exist maybe not in a way that we perceive but it does because the fact that the neurones and all those stuffs involved in making a decision that we call as free will should not be actually doing the stuffs.

I mean those chemicals that are involved in our thought processes, what makes them obligated to do that? Why would my brain which is made up of fundamentally electron, proton and neutrons which are obviously dead particles are obligated to perform the act of thinking or making a chemical arrangement to make the final decision of my will?

Maybe we don't have a free will as we say but in us there is something that does have free will that control us.

To be honest I believe in the butterfly effect which simply states that the future is actually totally dependent on the past and every action. So every action I take is reaction to the past. But it must have started somewhere? It can't just start from nowhere. And if it does then the cause of that origin can be said to have free will because the origin might not choose to be the origin of something and then nothing would exist. And then the origin itself wouldn't have existed but it did which means it had no choice except to make a choice, and the choice had only one option.

If you can do what you want, eat what you want, go to the place you want to go or choose what you want without the necessity of getting someone's consent before doing such, then you have a free will. It is about self-choice.

Free itself is an ambiguous word. Free is never really free.
Free comes with terms and conditions. Set by others and our environment and unconsciously set by our own experience and ideology.
Emotions bring on hormones and hormones bring on emotions.
People perceives free differently. Because we are to some extent always influenced by the ideas we've taken in.  We are never 100% free.

Is there anything called absolute freedom?
And can it exist without responsibility?
If we are created, causal beings, can we have absolute free will or limited?
I think we have the freedom to choose, but there is no absolute freedom to do bad things and destroy ourselves and our lives.
Absolute freedom and free will don't exist without responsibility,

alot of people think free will is about freedom. meaning do whatever you want without consequence. sorry but no

freewill is about having a choice. and ability to make choices
where some choices do come with consequences but you have the freewill to do it or not do it, but remember some choices do come with consequences

EG
being told at a bank to get down on the ground or be shot by a bank robber
you might initially think you are forced to get to the ground, meaning no fr will.. but actually you do have a choice..
A. get down on the ground.  
B. get shot
in fact you are not limited to the choices forced upon you.

you can also
C. get your gun out and shoot the robber
D. get gun out and say 'everyone get down were both robbing the bank' (winning the initial robber over to become your equal)
E. run for cover and find an escape
F. talk to the robber
g.h.i...  the list goes on

free will is about choice. but NOT having no consequence freedom

Free will is about stating that you have free will, and feeling that you do, but having been programmed to state and feel this way.

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Yes, humans have free will. That's not the point. The point is that free will isn't something that anyone knows much of anything about.

When you get up in the morning, and you choose which side of the bed you get out on, or you choose which color tie to wear, or you choose which kind of cereal to have for breakfast, or the route you will go to work today, this isn't free will. Something prompted you to make the choices that you make.

It all has to do with cause-and-effect. You were pushed in a direction, and you succumbed to the push. Even in the Lord's Prayer we see C&E. "Lead us not into temptation," because whatever way God allows us to be directed, that's the thing we will do. So, we continue to pray, "...but deliver us from evil," so that we don't do anything wrong and get hurt by it, through being directed into temptation.

Our free will has to do with some tiny part of us that is directed in the direction of God. It has nothing to do with what we call our free choices.

When our free will is in the direction of faith in God, God directs us this way. But when we are weaker in faith, God directs us that way. Thank God that He is trying to save us, and build us up in life. Otherwise we'd have a lot more trouble than we do.

Our free will is based on our faith in God. The decisions we make in life are promptings that God prompts us to make. But He does the promptings according to what He sees in our free will faith.

Free will is absolutely different than anything we understand. Our choices in this life are artificial free will, based on our real free will, and the way that God moves life according to our real free will.

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an athiest translation
the so called 'adams apple' is the thyroid gland in the throat area. which is the hormones which is the endocrine system which is the power behind the subconscious and conscious thoughts and making different organs function.
people and animals with thyroid issues have 'zombie' lethargic minds

cavemens thyroid function was low and they just acted on impulse mainly (low cognitive ability). with no real intellectual thought beyond basic desires and needs. evolution came when cavemens diets changed due to changes of animal/vegetation evolution to produce new fruits which fuelled the hormonal growth and their for made cavemen have more deeper thoughts and start planning their actions.

the subconscious mind is the impulsive automatic reacting side. many science people call the 'god' entity, peoples individual subconscious.. the conscious mind is the one which we make the choices from

EG your subconscious mind(god) is what you teach from as a child to automate thoughts like how to breath, walk and talk and then how to impulsively react to things like ducking when you hear loud explosions and not putting your hand into fire.
then your conscious(freewill) gets the ability to override the impulse and negotiate if the risk/reward benfits of choices to decide which option is best


...
any way because humans have more developed consciousness and fuelled by a better endocrine system we have more free will than other animals
that said we are not the only ones with free will. just some other animals have less free will because they are 'dumber'
and yes some humans who cant think straight and have trouble making their own choices feel like they have no free will. when in actual fact is they have less free will purely due to brain/body damage/disease/disability possibly due to birth defects or environmental impacts like diet, drugs or abuse.

this is why even courts recognise that some humans may not have the cognitive ability to defend themselves in court

I think we have our free will. But as a whole, you can't impose your free will on others' free will. It is subject to the majority, which is good for the whole. In the end, our free will is subject to limitations IMHO. If we have no limitation, then each one is pushing their own agenda, self-interest and finally greed.

That's where the US type of government is different. The US is not a democracy. A democracy is majority rule... which is simply the majority imposing their free will on the minority.

The real US government is freedom for all people as long as they do not harm anyone or damage his property.

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your soo freeman narrow minded.
you are forgetting tresspass and contracts
yep the constitution is a contract. and so are elections

The question is who they are contracts with. After all, none of the people who signed those contracts are still living. You can't impose a contract on someone else just because you feel like it.

The breaking of a contract is damaging someone who trusted in the contract. So, it's damaging his contractual property.

You don't seem to know that the contraction for "you are" is you're, not your.

8)

The human brain is full of mystery, years of studies conducted through the brain but we all only know small parts of it we still dont know how it actually works the mysteries behind. That question is indeed quite interesting we still have a lot to learn of the human brain but one thing is for sure human beings are capable of making decisions on their own. For example if a majority is doctrinated to believe in a one true god, one would realize that something is wrong with their belief and question it thus bringing him to a path of atheism.

The tetrahedron is the simplest of geometric forms that are greater than 2-dimensional. Check out the article at https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahedron to see the complexity of the tetrahedron as it sits in space.

The brain is full of patterns and geometric forms in the relationships of the atoms and molecules therein. These geometric forms impinge on space, itself, and form patterns that extend into dimensions beyond the 3rd-dimension.

People are built to understand the basics of how geometric forms work together, but we don't have any method for tracking what really goes on with these forms. This, however, doesn't mean that we don't use the forms in conjunction with each other, naturally, in our brains. In other words, we can live and move in all kinds of realms in all kinds of dimensions, but we will never be able to track the movement.

The whole thing is an operation is complexity that is so far beyond anything that we or science will ever be able to develop, that we might as well just use it, and not question it. If free will is within us, it has to do with geometric patterns that reach beyond time and space.

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IMHO all discussions about free will boil down to one idea: at the very last moment when you are making a decision to do something, how you know who picks a certain variant? If you are absolutely honest with yourself it's clear that this last decision just drops into your consciousness from nowhere like a letter into the postbox. So is there any free will at all? Obviously not. All ideas, thoughts, emotions just happen to us. We can only observe this process. 

The question of whether or not we have free will is unlikely to be settled. Personally I would argue (as others have in this thread), that it all comes down to physics, atoms moving in a certain way because other atoms have already moved in a certain way. In this sense, at the sub-microscopic level, everything is pre-determined... and yet at the everyday level we feel as though we can make free, conscious choices.

I think - much like the question of whether god exists - it is unlikely to be proven conclusively either way, and so in that case it is not the most important question in respect of how we live our lives.

I would say a more important question would be: should we live as if we have free will? The answer for me is a resounding yes. We should always be our best selves, make the most of every moment that we have. 'Determinism' shouldn't be used as a crutch to support laziness or poor behaviour. I could sit around in my underwear all day eating chocolate, doing nothing, and say it's not my fault, everything is pre-ordained. Or I could get up, go to work, be kind and generous and as nice a person as I can be, and act as if every decision and action was due to my own free will.

Living as if free will is real is simply the best way to live, and the most authentic.

A million of storage that the brain has so there are a lot of idea that comes from our head.  Even we don't want to think something we do always remember it.  Sometimes we can't control our brain but sometimes we can.  We have a free will from everything by the use of our body but remember that we are the one or the idea we have are because of our surroundings.

Individuals still don't have free will.
Everything and everyone is manipulated.
Via the internet or the media your critical mind is manipulated according to what they want you to believe.

It's not like you are being forced to believe what they want you to believe. You still have the option to not fall for the manipulation. Switch off media or internet.

We all have free will. But we have to think before we act. We think about the consequences and the cost of opportunities. Societies norms are taken into considerations. Nowadays, we are too influenced that conditioned our daily lives. I am not into mainstream media and the current trends but I still need to play smart in the game of life well.   

Yes every man has this free will Humans can do everything as they are independent but it is a matter of their personal brains Everything is revealed to man through his behavior Now humans can control everything themselves think good or bad learn something new they control their brains.

However, everything that man attempts to control is filtered by God. So, it is the things of God that become the real result.

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Seen this mentioned in a science channel in Youtube at least 2 years ago and it indeed creates many questions. If our brain has already made a decision before we are conscious of it it, did we really "decided" it? If we "changed" our mind about a decision we are about to take, did we really changed or was it already predetermined and the "changed decision" part is just us consciously justifying what our unconscious has decided for us. Of course people can still argue that we will be responsible for the outcome (it is after all still our own brain), but up to what extent are we responsible?

And this concern more than just the question of free will. So far they can predict how we'll answer mathematical questions but what happens when it gets advanced enough to predict most actions, will we be dealt with before we even commit a crime?


I forgot where I read it but this reminded me of one article that stated that individuals are hard to predict but as a group, people are VERY predictable. It turns out we do still act in herds.

At its root, humans do have free will. In the example you give, the outcome will be completely random if done with multiple participants. I believe each person is wired differently in a unique way, and as a result, each of our subconscious minds will think of a number at random in different ways, some people maybe recalling a common number they use when asked this question, others maybe picking their "lucky" or "favorite" number, and I believe we are all different in this way.
However, I think in many ways, on a grander scale, that we are subconsciously coerced into taking certain paths in our lives where we believe we are doing so with free will, but it is really due to influence from our surroundings/society. For example, a student graduating from high school and picking what college they are going to attend, they believe they are doing so with free will, when in reality there are a large number of factors that go into what college you are attending that is out of your control. Suggestions from a guidance counselor, teacher, or even what school is popular to attend among your peers, all come into play when making this decision. This could be extended to jobs, career paths... etc.
In a simpler example, I've seen examples of this done with crowds of people at lets say a magic show. In this case, the performer would ask the audience to think of a shape within another shape in their mind, along with a color. The performer would then guess off the top of his head a certain combo of shapes, and the audience was amazed at the fact that almost all of them thought of the same set of shapes. They believed they were using free will to think of this combination, when in reality, the performer was drawing particular shapes in the air with his fingers while giving the instructions, and nobody noticed. It was their subconscious mind that allowed them to think of the shapes initially, but all of their subconscious minds were influenced in the same way, just without their knowledge of it.

to rebut baddeckers religious nonsense
if you only follow 'god' then you are just a lame follower that cant make choices of your own.

by not following 'god' then that is free will because you are no longer following. your leading.
so by the proof that people do sin and dont just follow. shows they have more free will than those that stupidly and blindly follow 'god'

..
translated to athiest
instead of just automatically breathing.. if you choose to hold your breath.. you are showing your free will choice of how to control your body. your not on autopilot just living life.
if your body is attracted to a female and you choose not to buy her a drink. your showing your free will to go against your most basic of desires.
if you go on hunger strike. your going against your bodies most basic needs. again freewill.

but just being a zombie on autopilot ust reacting impulsively .. just makes you dumb

..
some people think they dont have a choice. you always have a choice.
you may not like the choices and not be able to be smart enough to think beyond the choices to form an alternative option thats not presented to you. but you o have choices.

if someone told me i had 2 options. to either shut up or get banned.
a dumb person would think there are only two options. but to me i see other alternatives beyond them two. so i have free will

its like the god followers who think there is just sin and no sin.. dont do a crime or do a crime.. others however think there are other options like do a crime just dont get caught.
dont do a crime but find another way to get what you want.
its never just a 2 option game in the real world.

franky1 had to post that^^. He was required to. He doesn't have any free will. So, don't blame him. He's only a rock in the road.

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Free will with genetics and environmental considerations. Your genetics might make you angry, happy and so forth, and that has a major influence. And within that influence you have freewill.

There is no free will, Instead what is presented to you is an illusion of choice. You can be good or be bad, but good and bad is subjective and changes from person to person. One mans pain could be another mans pleasure, just as one mans trash is another mans treasure. It is a Hegelian dialectic, problem , reaction and solution. Let's take religion for example, free will comes down to follow my commandments or don't and suffer.
(Religion in a nutshell).
  Sunny days wouldn't be special, if it wasn't for rain, Joy wouldn't feel so good, if it wasn't for pain. In order to see the light you must first realize your in the dark. Truth or lies, Hot or cold, yin and yang.
What is this choice you speak of, I can't find it? I didn't choose to be born,  but I guess i'm here (not my choice). If we are dying just to live, why are we living just to die?
I'm willing to bet you that black scientist guy was right, about super-string theory and finding self correcting code within the very fabric of the universe, suggesting that we live within a highly sophisticated simulation.

Just a theory  :-X

Nearly 90% of human behavior (in my humble estimation) manifests itself in habits that are automatic but yet can be changed. This ability and power to change oneselve's habits is free will. Also, mindfulness and attention is the key to change

A mosquito can bite you. But if it doesn't bite hard enough or in just the right spot, you won't notice... even if you feel it a little. But if it bites you just a little harder, you will slap at it. It prompted you to act. If it hadn't prompted you, you wouldn't have acted. No free will there. simple a set pattern.

No matter what you think or do, how do you know that there isn't something prompting you to do it? Maybe there are many little things that jointly push you to think or act in a specific way. Since you can't put your finger on any of them, you think that you had free will to choose what you chose.

Starving kids in Africa can choose to eat all they want. But they can't eat if there isn't any food. Does the fact that they didn't eat prove that they chose not to eat? So, why would the fact that we get some of the results of our choices be the determining factor that we had free will?

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no they don't

God expresses in the Bible that people have free will. We simply don't have a clue as to how it works. And, the free will that we use every day, is artificial free will.

Proverbs 16:9 shows the way God and man are involved in mans' free will: "The heart of man plans his way, but the Lord establishes his steps."

For more passages that help to explain (or confuse), see https://www.openbible.info/topics/free_will.

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I must admit I was disturbed when I first watched a video of this, with the guy in an mri solving those simple math problems. I haven't read into the actual study but it seems they can only predict what decision the brain would make for simple questions.

It does make me question how much of my actions are consciously made and if those "conscious" decisions were truly something I made or if they were influenced by more external factors than I'd like to admit.


Yup, heuristics is an energy-saving mechanism. Imagine having to think through every movement involved in brushing your teeth.

Of course, we can only change ourselves and it needs determination. We have freewill loke the freedom to choose what we like, what we want but of course, our conscience makes us think twice and balance our situation. In the end, it is our will that will pursue this decision and action.

we think we have a free will but in the end god has everything under controll, including the mess and the good parts of life.

Well, i think we're free to make decisions about or actions, there's that. It's just that every action we make of course corresponds to a certain consequence, whether it's good or bad for us. So free will is real. We're responsible for what happens to us and likely, for the people around us as well. Laws are there to be abided, and we're free to choose if we'll follow or not. Though again, there are consequences for our choices and actions.