Bitcoin Forum

Our debt-ridden world economy continues to stack up more IOUs. According to recent estimates, the global debt is now around $253 trillion or 322% of GDP — a record high that Bitcoin is wagging its finger at.

According to a new report, the world economy is based on more debt than ever before — in fact, total world debt now comes out to over 3x global GDP.

To read the full article, check it right here (https://beincrypto.com/alternatives-bitcoin-becoming-necessary-world-debt-reaches-record-253-trillion/?utm_campaign=amba&utm_medium=social&utm_source=bitcointalk&utm_content=jc)

If you look at the numbers, it's already record-breaking for world debt.

As Bitcoin continues to be recognized and massively adopted worldwide, I just don't know if it's indeed a genuine alternative because of the record-breaking world debt of $253 trillion.

What would you think about this guys? Do you honestly think Bitcoin is gonna be the best alternative choice in this situation?

I would like to hear more about your reactions or opinion on this one. Cheers!

BTC is helpful here, but same as all 'limited' resources like gold/silver etc.
BTC is best in "limited" manner because we know supply limit for 100%, yet new gold sources are discovered.
So economy had and have way to exit FIAT currencies.

BTC as alternative, of course. Its the only thing that's valuable that also fits for the technology we have today. We have phones and wireless networks that is perfect for digital currencies.  Governments can even take BTC as reserve if they can just accept the fact that it makes more sense to use it than gold.

The global debt will continue to rise no matter what measures are taken by the banks of the government. There is too much chaos in financial markets. Situations like these give rise to global recession.

This is why emerging economies are in the process of launching their own crypto coins to hide this problem. Most countries are already experiencing negative interest rate and high inflation.

It is the people who have to realise this danger and take a step forward in adopting Bitcoin.

Bitcoin is definitely more transparent in that regard. Gold however will be bought up regardless of how much of it is dug up, simply because central banks are champion in abusing the money printer. In the long run, it eats through the available supply and that will definitely reflect in the price, but that process could take decades.  :D

As much as I like Bitcoin, I don't see it being a solution to the problem OP is referring to. If you don't deal with the monetary policy markers, nothing will change, ever. It's the same group of like-minded elite that's in charge. Something has to change there on a fundmental level. I do not see that happen with how much empirical evidence we have today.

As we predicted, world debt will continue to swell. But I don't really understand the purpose of Bitcoin as an alternative when world debt swells. We know that the Bitcoin utility can be an alternative payment and can deposit a value. But I still haven't gotten points about how and why Bitcoin is needed when the world is in debt. Can anyone explain?

In my point of view about that, if people would divert their asset to the digital currency it became decentralized. Bank won't recognize it as your physical deposit, inflation rate will be lessened if fewer individuals will use fiat currency.
When government adopt on this strategy, and uses bitcoin as good alternative for storing value; holding it for years would be an assurance to solve our world debts once current value would earn higher returns.

To protect the value of your wealth (like PMs for example) when either central banks and governments inflate the currency to make the debt more manageable or allow one to escape currency controls if a particular country does that.

Bitcoin is an asset that smart people can use to protect themselves from the power at all costs people who are charging up debt that will never be able to be repaid without a huge inflationary period. Or a debt jubilee.  Either of which will damage whomever does that.

The problem with Bitcoin is that it's not really scalable because of the slow speed and increase in few when transactions increase. But yeah crypto can come handy and can solve many of the problem which presently exist in monetary landscape. Countries are struggling with hyperinflation and centralization of money. I think once people start understanding that a decentralized currency can be a revolution, the whole monetary landscape would change.

Bitcoin now is on mainstream and this is worldwide known as an alternative currency because of it's kind. Those who did not understand what is Bitcoin, they think that it is a fraud or the reason why people want an alternative currency is to participate in an evil act which is they want transaction anonymously. But the fact this has great help to the economy.

So, let's enumerate how it is helpful when cryptocurrency use as an alternative currency.
- unreversible --> once transaction confirmed it is irreversible, not like other payment processors have a chargeback(like paypal) its likely use of fraud activity.
- Lower fees and fast transactions--> Even you are sending worth of thousands or millions of dollars it is the same transaction fee, not just like fiat currency.
- Identify theft--> If you use your credit card or bank account it is automatically linked to your personal identities even small transactions you have transacted. Unlike crypto, it will remain anonymous.
- Decentralization --> Of course, bitcoin managed by its network and no one will control even central authority. It means operating a peer-to-peer basis.

No, doubt that bitcoin is a good use or necessary to become an alternate currency.

In my opinion, bitcoin is definitely very important right now. While fiat money is heavily alarmed on upcoming inflation, bitcoin and gold are certainly an asset to store to avoid losing the value of fiat money. Although bitcoin has nothing to guarantee, the market is showing that the crowd always ensures that the inflation rate will be better. You can see that when the US and Iran declared war, the price of bitcoin suddenly increased sharply. and the volume of bitcoin in one day has increased by nearly 40% and that shows bitcoin is very potential. when this debt burst, bitcoin will certainly not be affected and it is the kind of asset we should keep.

No matter which financial model we use global debt will continue to exist even if we shift to bitcoins this global debt will be shifted to bitcoin also. IMHO bitcoin cant be used as alternative to fiat, as long as we have central government's.

if the use of fiat decreases it will increase the inflation rate because there is no ideal circulation. And if the government is known to use bitcoin as an alternative, the debt burden will also be calculated from fiat circulation which is converted to bitcoin and vice versa. Using alternatives outside the recognized system will be a new problem that has no basis for accountability. alternative methods like this cannot be involved institutionally.

This scalability problem affects most of the cryptocurrencies with high liquidity such as Bitcoin and Ethereum. So for people affected by this debt, it can only operate reliably as a store of value that happens to be more available to acquire than gold. Seriously, nobody does transactions with gold and other precious metals.

I know there are blockchains like NEO which can handle thousands of transactions per second but the problem with these is that they are very volatile too.

they are worried that they are humiliated by the bitcoin community around the world, they are hypocrites when in fact there is no harm in trying, if all countries and governments want to support bitcoin and other crypto as an alternative to payment transactions or participate in developing campaigns for all of its people, I sure they can pay off their country's debt, unfortunately they don't try this and are always against it as long as there are bankers behind them it will be difficult for them to move to test bitcoin and crypto, they may make the biggest bitcoin mining in their country with their state budget money

Bitcoin really works as a good alternative to fiat but not for everyone. This is subjective. Others find it best as alternative like us. As debt continue to increase, it can lead to inflation so  Bitcoin can be a running place for people. But not everyone will also do it. Some can still be afraid of investing in bitcoin and its volatility. And not everyone really care about a country's debt. But when a currency is slowly losing its value, they'll go with Bitcoin.

maybe bitcoin is better because a stable bitcoin inventory can be an antidote for central banks to print money and encourage debt. and bitcoin supply cannot be manipulated or increased according to the wishes of the government or other central banks, so in my opinion because that is what makes bitcoin a good alternative and because bitcoin also has a system that is far different from the fiat financial system.

bitcoin has never been a solution to anything. it is an option towards freedom that people can choose to use. and it has always been like this. the governments and the banks will remain in power and control the money printing and everything. in most cases there is a lot of corruption involved in it too. in this corrupted world bitcoin is the way out but it is not going to solve that corruption.

Agreed, this has served to fulfill people with things that can't be done by the traditional banking process. This means it has provided users the freedom on spending. With banks at times even to spend our own money we need the permission of banking authority which is disgusting. This way on some means bitcoin gets considered as an alternative, but it isn't a solution.

If everybody suddenly withdrew all their money out of the banks, closed their bank accounts and turned to crypto it would turn into a solution. The thing is, we are still too tied to those third parties so it became hard to actually untie ourselves from them. A change is possible, a change can happen now. The only problem is, a sudden change in economy like that means a change of our routine. People have to accomodate to another system, and that's uncomfortable for them.

Even the article stated it, Bitcoin is not the sole solution to an increasing debt. Debt is indeed unsustainable, to the point that it seems like countries treat debt as nothing, and doesn't seem to care about paying them. What we need is a system that is sustainable, to prevent debt growth to actually solve it. Though Bitcoin could be a platform to transact faster without the hassle, and "might" make economic growth faster, it still depends on how the economy is run and Bitcoin does not guarantee an economic growth.

Whenever we hear about any crisis then we immediatly recommend that bitcoin is the solution. Worsening Lebanese Crisis May Spark Bitcoin Adoption (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5213127.0). Bitcoin is not like a magic stick which has solution for every of our problem, its a payment system just like fiat. If we move to bitcoin let say, you sure we dont need loans in that case?

Well said. Bitcoin is just a token of exchange, it is completely neutral. It can only affect the world based on how PEOPLE use it.

If people decide to set up a crypto bank and start practicisng fractional reserve banking, guess what? The debt being created will look exactly the same as in the fiat banks.

If they did that "suddenly" as you say, only about 10% will be able to cash out. I don't call fractional reserve banking a ponzi scheme to look dramatic, the money doesn't exist.

If its done slowly, it would give time for banks to shrink, and likely most people will be able to cash out. Unfortunately bankruns occur when people get scared, and the truth about fractional reserve banking is very scary.

The current dominating school of economy needs people getting in debt, and inflation is part of their equation. Once you bring a "hard currency" that doesn't lose purchasing value, the magic begins.

I know you cannot trigger the critical mass for this panic, but as a thought experiment be aware that humanity as a whole has dug too deep into the fractional reserve banking scheme to be able to exit. The money simply isn't there. Of course they could "print" it, but before any significant amount of people is able to withdraw it, it will be valueless.

The transition towards Bitcoin seems to be occurring smoothly. Done it slow enough, the banks have tome to shrink, recall back loans, close locations, reduce personnel, etc. A post bitcoin world doesn't need that many banks and they are destined to shrink anyway. If the world DOES panic, those that are already into bitcoin will be safe, while those holding fiat will probably lose it or end out with about 10% of its purchasing power.

"Don't panic."

I agree that Bitcoin is one of the possible solutions to overcome world debt and improve the global economic condition. For me, Bitcoin has some advantages that governments around the world need to consider. At least below the advantages :
1. Bitcoin provides easy+fast transaction
2. Bitcoin has measurable value
3. Bitcoin has been spreading out around the world
4. Almost all countries in the world have an interconnected internet network

*However, I disagree with your statement saying Gold is non-sense. It is proven that worth to be used al the time.

I see, bitcoin is a good alternative but to consider that the debt is worldwide, I think it is still going to be not a good replacement because what backs bitcoin is still dollars, but if we would think of the fact that bitcoin is an investment platform, we could take advantage of it to retrieve and pay global debt. If and only if there is a person that will be tasked to trade and keep track of the market. Because for me, if people will utilize bitcoin, it is nonsense as debt should be repaid but in this case, it will not.

I think when the debt rises too high, people will find a more stable and reputable currency. It is possible at that point that bitcoin will compete with gold and oil to become an alternative currency.
However, because governments cannot regulate bitcoin, they will oppose bitcoin becoming an alternative currency.

It should mainly dollar FIAT money must be immediately removed because the primary cause of this debt is all dollar exchanges in various major countries. Bitcoin can be an option because with a limited amount, the debt of countries can be reduced to a safe percentage. Whatever happens state debt will not be exhausted because of the development and economic growth, but at least it can be minimized by using other alternatives.

This is clearly demonstrated in venezuela, when inflation and debt have increased, and people have chosen bitcoin and USD as a currency instead of government money.
It will be expanded worldwide if world debt rises and inflation cannot be controlled.

I cannot say that bitcoin will be the best alternative in this type of situation as there is a little chance that changing fiat to crypto will make the world debt into zero.

But if there is a way to make this happen then I am sure big governments will be the first to act in this matter but as what I saw right now most of the governments are adapting crypto slowly therefore it will still take a few years before we can see whether bitcoin can solve the world debt.

Just like we observed during the bank crisis in Greece and Cyprus - you will have imposed upon you a small daily withdrawal limit (like $50) for your account by the authorities.

Don't worry about the global sovereign debt of around $253 trillion US $Dollars.

Satoshi has created something to payoff all the sovereign debts of all the developing and poorest countries. Soon he is going to announce his latest project in Expo Dubai all about paying off the sovereign debts. What he is doing wright now, you cannot imagine. He has a plan but the central bankers  and their employers the financial elites sponsored mafias and thugs are previously persecuting him to stop his mission. I think the Bitcoin P2P system already they have over taken from the Bitcoin community that he created to cooperate each others.

 

Bitcoin indeed can be a great help but we cannot be certain that it is the best alternative if ever the world would drown on its high debt that's increasing as years passes by. Bitcoin is a revolutionary currency but its function is to give convenience and chance of being wealthy and saving the world economy would be a very hard task for bitcoin to do. Instead, we should pay attention more on how we can aid all the debt the world currently has and start regulating bitcoin to atleast make little by little difference in terms of economy.

No, bitcoin is backed in nothing. This means the USD can crash, while bitcoin retains its purchasing power. If the USD crashes, bitcoin will NOT be pulled down by it, quite the contrary, since both are untied, the price of bitcoin in USD simply skyrockets, but not because is climbing, just because the USD is crashing. To compare in that hypothetical scenario, think the price of bitcoin in EUR would remain (actually the USD can pull the EUR, both being fiats tied to the flawed school of Chicago economy).

Note that this has little or nothing to do with debt. If you do switch to the Austrian school, the debt is still there, but at least you could start paying it. However if you want to untie your money from the madness of the global economy, bitcoin is your best bet. Precious metals may also work, but their handling and online use sucks.

Bitcoin can play a cameo in avoiding these debt issues but it cannot resolve this issue as we need to first figure out the reason why everyone is in debt as most of us own our debt to one particular family which controls the bankers throughout the world and need to focus on avoiding the debt as banks are just fooling us because they just showcase digital figure and if we all cashout at the same time then the bak might go bankrupt. Bitcoin cannot be a sole alternative rather it can help in bridging the gap if we have a plan to avoid debt.

Theres two paths on debt like this, with debt to GDP only increasing recently with the virus events.   The sensible approach is to respect capital value and savings, this elevates prudence in the economy and savings.  The alternative is to keep creating new money to pay off the debt, which undermines capital value and any savings.
   The reason I think the virus demonstrates that we should have always saved money is natural negative events will occur, this isnt the last time.   Massive natural disasters will require exceptional moves by government, overspending is going to occur in that moment.   If the default scenario before the disaster has been to over spend and print money then we risk destabilizing all confidence in an economy by excessive measures.

Some say the debt falling over has to occur now, its impossible to unwind the QE.   I think what could occur is default on bad debt and this restores the natural use of money.    The more likely precedent is something like Russia did in the late 1990's, they wiped out the old Ruble and created a new Ruble at exchange rate of 10,000 to 1 so debts were soft defaulted.
    Its the same loss but with the hope nobody loses faith in the system, it worked for Russia because they have so many commodity assets, it not likely to work in a modern westernised service economy because these are non physical goods in alot of cases.  For example UK relies on alot of big insurance and finance work, crash that system and lose faith and they lose revenue and business hence massive deflation.