Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Service Discussion => Topic started by: tyz on February 05, 2020, 03:23:37 PM



Title: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: tyz on February 05, 2020, 03:23:37 PM
Some time ago there was 1broker.com where you were able to short stocks from S&P, Dow Jones and other major indices with Bitcoin. 1Broker unfortunately closed. Are there alternative services like 1Broker?


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: AdolfinWolf on February 05, 2020, 04:09:27 PM
There are alternatives, but i am really not sure how trustworthy they are.


This one looks most promising to me, but again, i've never used them. I do remember WCX though, and it seems WCX was acquired by this platform?
https://trade8.to/trade/ (Previously WCX?)

Edit: I'm not sure how common it is to pay such decay rates in liquidity pools, for some stocks you pay ~.1% every 8 hours of holding them (the trade that is.)? nor whether or not trade8 offers dividend on their stocks, so you should keep that in mind.



And there's also some forex related sites. I just found this one through a google search -- not sure how trustworthy/good it is, but it seems to have been around for a while. - https://simplefx.com/


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: OmegaStarScream on February 05, 2020, 06:03:10 PM
Have you checked eToro? It seems like they have the stocks[1][2] you're looking for. The fees are quite high though (25$ on withdrawals).

I know that bitcoin is accepted but I'm not entirely sure about whether you can use your funds on the trading platform or just on their eWallet. If you find out that you can't, just deposit your bitcoin to Neteller/Skrill (1% fees) then send that to your eToro account.

[1] https://www.etoro.com/markets/dj30
[2] https://www.etoro.com/markets/spx500


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: squatter on February 05, 2020, 07:30:24 PM
And there's also some forex related sites. I just found this one through a google search -- not sure how trustworthy/good it is, but it seems to have been around for a while. - https://simplefx.com/

They've been around since 2015 and they have an ANN thread on the forum (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1059253.0). They offer a bunch of stock indices and big name stocks like Apple and Amazon.

Although they don't have any active flags or sustained scam accusations against them, there has been at least one instance where they reversed all trades on a listed market without good justification. People definitely lost money because of it (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2399030.0), so beware.


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: niko83 on February 07, 2020, 01:26:48 AM

This one looks most promising to me, but again, i've never used them. I do remember WCX though, and it seems WCX was acquired by this platform?
https://trade8.to/trade/ (Previously WCX?)


I was given 30 USD bonus to trade there. First they tell you that the "welcome bonus is removed when you withdraw." Fair enough, so I triple the bonus with a few trades and then try to withdraw the surplus, but now they invent a new rule: "Profits made trading the bonus amount can be withdrawn after a deposit."

I surely won't deposit any money there because IDK what new rules they will invent if do such a thing. They have a 2-pager FAQ for documentation which only covers trivial stuff but not a word about the serious issues. Very shady. I wouldn't be surprised if they do drastic things with your money. Use at your own risk.


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: tyz on February 07, 2020, 10:03:16 AM
Thanks all for the links and the experiences!

I chose to join simplefx over trade8. After some research, it seems to me simplefx is most promising service available. Also the service has been around for some years without major scam accusations. Sure, you find scam accusations if you Google a bit, but from my experience there is not a single established service that has not been accused of any wrong behaviour. What is important to me is how frequent and credible these accusations are.


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: HedgeFx on February 07, 2020, 10:05:26 AM

SimpleFX is one of the best. I trade with them since 2016 and never had any issue

Some time ago there was 1broker.com where you were able to short stocks from S&P, Dow Jones and other major indices with Bitcoin. 1Broker unfortunately closed. Are there alternative services like 1Broker?


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: saifoufa on February 08, 2020, 05:26:50 AM

SimpleFX is one of the best. I trade with them since 2016 and never had any issue

Some time ago there was 1broker.com where you were able to short stocks from S&P, Dow Jones and other major indices with Bitcoin. 1Broker unfortunately closed. Are there alternative services like 1Broker?

Is there a significant difference between one and another service like this?
Speed of transactions and fees maybe?


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: HedgeFx on February 08, 2020, 01:45:35 PM

SimpleFx work on MT4 so you can use auto trading trough  expert advisor . During this year withdrawal became faster and usually are processed in a few minutes: and this is a very important thing to consider before choose a broker ( on 1broker withdrawal was instantaneous, but a lot of brokers require long time before process withdrawal!).
Servers work well, no lagg no requotes . As I wrote they are on market from many years so I trust them.


SimpleFX is one of the best. I trade with them since 2016 and never had any issue

Some time ago there was 1broker.com where you were able to short stocks from S&P, Dow Jones and other major indices with Bitcoin. 1Broker unfortunately closed. Are there alternative services like 1Broker?

Is there a significant difference between one and another service like this?
Speed of transactions and fees maybe?


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: magneto on February 09, 2020, 07:19:00 AM
Are there any that don't require KYC? Or do they all require some degree of it.

If there was a way to short stocks with the same ease that you could long/short BTC perps then I think a lot of people what be doing it.

With these traditional forex brokers I feel like that either they are super shady or they have high fees, and/or have a lot of regulatory hoops that the user has to jump through before they can obtain a working account. That really drives away a lot of potential users imo.


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: UserU on February 09, 2020, 07:29:31 AM
Are there any that don't require KYC? Or do they all require some degree of it.

If there was a way to short stocks with the same ease that you could long/short BTC perps then I think a lot of people what be doing it.

With these traditional forex brokers I feel like that either they are super shady or they have high fees, and/or have a lot of regulatory hoops that the user has to jump through before they can obtain a working account. That really drives away a lot of potential users imo.

The ones that I've used require some sort of KYC. Mainly due to regulations imposed by CySec, FCA and the likes.

A forex broker without any sort of licensing is like a sitting duck waiting to be shut down.

You must understand that KYC is important for them to avoid getting in trouble. If the client commits money laundering, who do you think the authorities would go after? Definitely the broker first.


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: magneto on February 09, 2020, 08:45:20 AM
Are there any that don't require KYC? Or do they all require some degree of it.

If there was a way to short stocks with the same ease that you could long/short BTC perps then I think a lot of people what be doing it.

With these traditional forex brokers I feel like that either they are super shady or they have high fees, and/or have a lot of regulatory hoops that the user has to jump through before they can obtain a working account. That really drives away a lot of potential users imo.

The ones that I've used require some sort of KYC. Mainly due to regulations imposed by CySec, FCA and the likes.

A forex broker without any sort of licensing is like a sitting duck waiting to be shut down.

You must understand that KYC is important for them to avoid getting in trouble. If the client commits money laundering, who do you think the authorities would go after? Definitely the broker first.

I understand.

The rules are definitely rigid and I was just testing my luck.

Perhaps though in the future we could see some sort of OTC market for derivatives on both crypto and real life assets - that would be awesome to see. Of course it's difficult to picture such a set up working for a large volume given all the trust that has to go into it.


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: tyz on February 09, 2020, 10:07:04 AM
Are there any that don't require KYC? Or do they all require some degree of it.

If there was a way to short stocks with the same ease that you could long/short BTC perps then I think a lot of people what be doing it.

I have used simplefx for some days. Registration was simple without any identification (except email confirmation). I deposited and withdrew a small amount of Bitcoin. I created some long and short orders (Tesla of course  :D ). Everything has been fine so far. No KYC is needed.


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: UserU on February 09, 2020, 10:40:34 AM

I understand.

The rules are definitely rigid and I was just testing my luck.

Perhaps though in the future we could see some sort of OTC market for derivatives on both crypto and real life assets - that would be awesome to see. Of course it's difficult to picture such a set up working for a large volume given all the trust that has to go into it.

As much as it's more cost saving to directly deal with the other party, there's gonna be loads of trust issues.

Without an escrow or middleman, you can see the problem arises on who goes first. No KYC means if anything goes wrong, you're screwed. 😬



Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: niko83 on February 10, 2020, 06:18:50 AM
For what it's worth, I finally have found some documentation about trade8 withdrawal policy here: https://support.trade8.to/en/articles/3297285-withdrawing-funds

It still looks kinda shady to me. I'd very much like to hear some first-hand experience from their users. I've made some decent gains there but I'm still hesitant to deposit money. Is there anybody here who actually withdrew BTC from trade8.to?


Title: Re: Service to short stocks with Bitcoin?
Post by: magneto on February 10, 2020, 10:58:06 PM

I understand.

The rules are definitely rigid and I was just testing my luck.

Perhaps though in the future we could see some sort of OTC market for derivatives on both crypto and real life assets - that would be awesome to see. Of course it's difficult to picture such a set up working for a large volume given all the trust that has to go into it.

As much as it's more cost saving to directly deal with the other party, there's gonna be loads of trust issues.

Without an escrow or middleman, you can see the problem arises on who goes first. No KYC means if anything goes wrong, you're screwed. 😬

Actually, what I find is that a lot of the sites with no KYC in the cryptospace at least are much more efficient in running their business and provide much better customer service than regulated entities. This is evident in both exchanges, and dice sites.

I don't know if there is a definitive correlation here, but it's certainly not fair to assume straight away that a site is not trustworthy simply because they don't do KYC.

And yes, OTC for this in BTC is a far fetched idea - but with the way that bitcoin derivatives are blooming, I don't think it's an impossibility.