Bitcoin Forum

Before there's more wild speculation about where these old coins that moved (https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/17XiVVooLcdCUCMf9s4t4jTExacxwFS5uh) came from... Let's remember that bitcoin was revealed publicly by satoshi upon release. An archive of the emails posted by satoshi can be seen here: https://satoshi.nakamotoinstitute.org/emails/cryptography/ People were in theory able to become part of the network and use bitcoin, mine and transact with equal access as satoshi himself onward from the genesis block. Especially a month in the opperation.

By some of the early participants that publicly showed interest, its obvious that one of the earliest adopters of bitcoin was Hal Finney (may he rest in peace). This is all public information verified by the record of the same mailing list.

While we can't be sure who had mined the block that went in the address 17XiVVooLcdCUCMf9s4t4jTExacxwFS5uh specifically, we also shouldn't assume that those coins were lost. For example, Hal had admitted storing keys for coins he had mined for his family.

Here's Hal on the matter:

Not to rush to assumptions also, there's no evidence to suggest that these coins were Hal's for sure either! Hal's online trail is just evidence that it's more realistic to expect those coins being connected to an early bitcoin enthusiast other than Satoshi himself. For all we know, it could be someone that never publicly mentioned using bitcoin too!

Edit: a typo

I wonder if they realize they also have like $20,000 in forks they need to move too lol

I don't think Satoshi who moved this coins either. Hal could be a likely candidate and so are the dozens early miners. And for the record though, this is not the first time we have seen an old address which move 50 BTC. The last time we have seen this is 2017.

https://www.blockchain.com/btc/address/1724SVrgVffLtzDspyQ7HRjuARbevPRe3D

https://i.imgur.com/wS3vA9Z.png

It is also interesting to note that the last time we seen this kind of movement, the price went -3%-5% but it was followed by a big upward trend, 20%-30%. I'm not saying that it could happened again.  :)

Also, this is good news for blockchain analyst or shall I call them "blockchain archeologist".

Perhaps, the person "Hal" isn't the only one who handles the address shown above, meaning to say that there's really someone behind the move of this 50BTC.

Looking upon the implication of this activity, I do not find anything wrong or bad as I see it positively, that bitcoin, even though, bitcoins mined 10 years ago, is circulating up until now. No wonder why people should really value bitcoin as it can really be profitable in the long run.

This is making rounds on crypto related media already. And it seems that this news has affected the price negatively. And I'm also thinking that maybe some bad actors are going to take advantage of this news and create FUD. So just be careful guys, make your own conclusions and not just push that sell button if you hear someone tells that the price will go down hard because of this news.

it is very likely that these coins were moved by an early miner as a middle finger to Craig Scammer Wright as the address that these coins came from was among the list of addresses that CSW claimed he owns and also more importantly claimed he has lost access to long time ago.
now the real owner anonymously moves the coins to show the middle finger to CSW and poke even more holes in his empty claims.

Well I mean, it wouldn't have moved if there was nobody behind it lmao. Hal is just one of the possible owners based on when they were mined, and it's an incredibly short list (for the people who we know anyway -- Bitcoin was incredibly easy to mine back then, and there could be random anonymous people who have tried it silently).


There shouldn't be any issue with this, but the common theme going on around now is that if this is Satoshi, he could possibly dump the 1m estimated coins he owns. It has to be noted that there is absolutely no evidence tying this to Satoshi and that a similar event has happened in 2017 (https://twitter.com/khannib/status/1263126477719158784).

I don't think this will cause a significant dump, if at all, but it looks like we're going to have a fun topic for a few days lol, especially because of the issue pooya87 has mentioned. I expect a CSW statement soon.

Probably so. Because the man is now resting in peace? ;)

Anyway, there are already a number of experts saying the old Bitcoins are most probably not Satoshi's.

It is somewhat amusing in its irony that people are too interested to kind of wake up the man behind the legendary name but when a few tens of old Bitcoins are moving out of a decade-old slumber they suddenly become paranoid.

it was not a sudden death so he had a lot of time to prepare. that means he has left whatever he had (private keys, backups, passwords,...) to his next of kin. so if these coins belong to Hal (and not some other early miner) then it is his family moving the coins.
considering the drama that has been going on with the CSW scam and the court this move makes a lot of sense to me.

However, those coins were from 2009. 1 month only after creation! Also, where are the evidences that Satoshi only mined from 1 computer and if Satoshi was only 1 person?

I reckon the chances that it might be Satoshi is higher than what the bitcoin news media is telling us.

In any case, this is an article about Patoshi blocks and explanations on how those coins were not from Satoshi. It assumes that Satoshi was mining from only 1 computer, however.



The so-called Patoshi Pattern (developed by RSK software designer Sergio Demain Lerner) gives us a rough picture of Bitcoin’s mining landscape in the early months. Basically, this pattern looks at the “nonces” (i.e., the cryptographic hash that miners guess to connect a new Bitcoin block with an old one) left by what is believed to be a single entity (some believe Satoshi).

Patoshi blocks have a different nonce pattern (due to an old flaw in Bitcoin’s code) than other miners’ blocks, the analysis suggests. And as Castle Island Ventures partner Nic Carter points out on Twitter, the Bitcoin that were just spent came from a different block than the ones that belong to the Patoshi Pattern.

Source https://decrypt.co/29575/satoshi-nakamoto-didnt-just-move-bitcoin

I feel like people are making a way bigger deal about this than it is, it's probably some random early adopter and 50 BTC is not something that would drastically alter the way the market is going.

There was pun intended. :D

Anyway, if this is indeed Hal's family, it's good to hear. The venerable man is still providing for his family years after he's gone.

If this is a middle finger for CSW, it's a wise move. He'll be held legally liable whichever way he chooses to respond to it, whether he says "yes, it's me moving those" or "no, it wasn't me." This early he denies it is him, although he hasn't released a more extensive statement yet.   

 

@Darker45. However, Hal came on 2010, correct? This is 1 year after the said 50 BTC coinbase was rewarded to the miner.

I speculate that the only miners 1 month after bitcoin's creation might predominantly Satoshi with different computers.

I guess you didn't read the whole Hal Finney's post (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=155054.msg1643833#msg1643833). He says:


As you can see, he knew about Bitcoin in 2008. but that sentence "The next I heard of Bitcoin was late 2010" means that he again heard of Bitcoin in late 2010.

Nope. We only have to remember that the first Bitcoin transaction was when Satoshi himself sent 50 BTC to Hal. That happened in January of 2009. So even before 2009, Hal was probably already active, so to speak, with Bitcoin.


Predominantly, yes, most probably. But it was definitely not Satoshi all alone. There were several others.  

That's implying that he (probably) wasn't very involved for a while after launch. But he did mine some coins at first, as per the quote I made in OP. Really not much was happening in the first year of bitcoin's life.

Probably a lot of doubt that it is satoshi but we don't really know but holding for that long is really historic or maybe a legend. It doesn't make sense why it moves today but for sure we are going to experience the effects of this in the coming months. Everybody is getting excited about this since the bitcoin address received 50Biticoin just a week after the bitcoin is created.

We never know if its the real satoshi it might be someone that is just ready to invest in bitcoin at the beginning of all of this.

"The coins in this transaction were mined in the first month of Bitcoin's existence."
https://i.postimg.cc/MZsLByz8/Annotation-2020-05-22-040212.png
Link (https://twitter.com/whale_alert/status/1263120977849978880)

Probably a history that this bitcoin is moved since it was mine just after the launch of bitcoin.  Maybe someone that is a real investor of a company has this bitcoin and needed the money because of COVID-19.

Why make such a big issue whether it is Satoshi or not?

Some veteran transferred it and it is evident by age of the wallet and the amount when it was mined. Why poke a nose into some ones affair.

Speculating whether it was Satoshi or not has to be stopped.

The date itself makes a big fuss because in our current era we rarely see such scenario that will probably lead to some clue to Satoshi's whereabouts. The theories in circulating in social media make this transaction big news and many have some theories on where could be this BTC transaction leads them. Honestly, whoever this guy is, he needs to be careful because all eyes are onto him now.

This make sense. Now, his credibility is once again being in question and this one is a strong evidence on his empty claims, as he admitted in the court that he didn't have the private keys and lost access to these old addresses.
Who's moving the coins then?
These event are like a 2 way trap for him.

I've read on reddit that 70 out of the presented by CWS addresses were already spent, so I don't see a strong need to move coins just to prove something. And it looks like 10 BTC were sent to a mixing service or an exchange, so it's a bit more likely that an early miner decided to cash out a portion of their coins.

What's much more interesting to me is that both the original address and the new 40 BTC address received a lot of dust since the address has woken up. Why would anyone send small amounts of coins to a stranger? Do they hope to use it for tracking them?

Exactly, I have the same thoughts about this news.

We have already experienced a massive selling pressure in the 10,000$ price range and this news will only add fuel to the fire because it is seen as something bad for the market or at least such narrative is common from what I see. It could be made on purpose, to shake off last weak hands and buy cheaper BTC, when this is still possible because all indicators and off-on chain analysis are flashing red that we are entering a bull market.

Of course, we have still one more barrier to achieve this goal, which is the 10.000$ sealing, but believe me, once it is broken, then there will be no stopping for BTC and the move to the upside can be massive, so every opportunity to buy cheaper will be exploited by bad actors and we have to be big skinned at this times because corrections and high volatility will be enormous.

In my opinion this is great news for the "Kleiman case" because it proves that C.W. is lying in his statements. From what I know it should be impossible to move these coins from "Tulip Trust" without all these "bounded couriers", additional encrypted parts (which should be still delivered) and years of waiting. This address is on his lists provided to the court  ;) :D.


Maybe you are right, but I just found an interesting comment in another thread about the same topic, which perfectly fits into the narrative of my post.


Of course, we all are only speculating and nobody knows nothing for sure. We are actually testing the 8800$ support and this news helped bears to achieve these levels, but if it holds, then BTC will go probably up again!!!

No if you wanted to shake coins out to drop  well under 6000 you would do 1 or 2 blocks a days.

The most likely case is this a some one with plenty of blocks under the block number of 10,000

They needed some money and cashed one out.

idiots selling based on 1 block under the 4000 mark are just that idiots selling.

Now  show me a block a day in the low range dropping out  and I would say someone is making a price shift move.

Maybe it has not affected the price as much as you think!

Bitcoin has been struggling to break 10 thousand and there's been a recent double top that signals a short term reversal. The price is just looking for a support from which it can continue upwards.

It was debunked many times already that those were not Satoshi's coins! Satoshi was not the only person in the world who mined in 2009.

No, Hal was there since the beginning.

https://i.imgur.com/87QfrRb.png

https://twitter.com/halfin/status/1110302988


I'm not sure about that, but there could be some miners in the early days, besides Satoshi and Hal himself.

As for the effect on price, obviously, we have some impact as the price goes down on the lower $9'ish. When prior to this we are getting into that 5 digits again.

I also think the same thing related to the transfer of bitcoin in large numbers from the old address is probably not Satoshi Nakamoto.
Because the earliest adopters of bitcoin aren't just satoshi nakamoto, I'm sure there are some people. Besides the bitcoin transfer like this
don't we as investors become panic and think negatively that bitcoin will dump. In my opinion this is not the first time this has happened
old address move 50 BTC, a few years ago it happened. And does not have any impact on the market.

We can't really prove or disprove if it really is Satoshi himself because he himself said back then to use many different addresses for security.
It maybe some early miner of Bitcoin, who knows but the technicals show a bearish pattern specifically upward diamond pattern that broke out today. So no this is not surprising at all.

Welp, this is the only time that I remember the market suddenly plunge when a certain amount of Bitcoin is being moved. So I'm sure there's a huge impact on it and whoever that person who moved their Bitcoin in an old address is an early investors but we don't know who are they. Best advice is wait a little longer to see if the price would normally back up or just gonna go down for the bottom.

Yes, as we can see the market plunges to the low $9k, so it indeed affected the market itself.
Maybe those weak hands just wanted to get out and make profit and doesn't want to see another Covid-19 drop. But perhaps in the next coming days, everything will settle down and time for the market to climb back again.

@Oceat - If I'm not mistaken there was also some drop before when this huge amount of coins are being moved, but what makes this more compelling is that it's a old address that others speculating that it came for Satoshi, which majority of us didn't agree with.

It might be true, and it could be a nice move of discrediting Craig. He confirmed that he did not do that, it seems (here's a mention (https://coingeek.com/craig-wright-didnt-move-any-btc-and-its-not-important-anyway/)). Maybe now we'll have fewer Craig supporters or perhaps the court will take this into account. So we're talking about a very early adopter, but most likely not Satoshi. I've seen a version that the Kleiman family actually has access to BTC but said the opposite in the court... There weren't many people into BTC back then, I believe, but we still most likely don't know the identity of all of them. So this might remain a mystery.

why wait until now to move them though?
the prime time would have been when he first made the statement of not having access to the wallet.

anyway as always some people will read doomsday into anything

Only 50BTC mined around 2009 was enough to push total cryptocurrency market capitalization over seven 7 billion dollars down, immediately following the news about the transaction, and of course, bitcoin led the way. I only wonder what would happen if indeed more from these early mined Bitcoins will be moved?

https://www.publish0x.com/scripts/what-if-satoshi-actually-sent-those-bitcoins-xkkkoek

In my opinion, this is not important if this was Satoshi or not, the fact is that this news brings panic to the cryptomarket and that was only one transaction. When people will see bigger moves from these early wallets, there will be no way for BTC to sustain in such a selling pressure and for sure we will see big corrections and extremely low prices.

I really hope, that all these early Bitcoins will stay inside these wallets or will be moved wisely, very slowly, to not cause the panic, because we see the market reacts really bad on even minimal amounts of BTC transferred from them.

What bottom are you talking about? Back to 3000 dollar bottom? You can forget about that.

Bitcoin was mined by a few people in the early days and the thought that it's Satoshi is simply ridiculous because it's such a small amount.

If Satoshi wanted to move money you'd see a million bitcoins being moved not 50.

It is funny how hard Craig trying to prove it.

A lot of people obviously know that it is not Craig, he is not Wright  ;) Either way, people are saying that someone moved it and it is not Craig, if it is not Satoshi, then it is someone having fun while Craig desperately wants to take it all.

Agreed. Craig really just boasted what he doesnt really have and the one who is responsible for moving that 50 BTC from an old wallet slapped it on his face that his arrogance is over. Funny thing though. It doesn't matter who the person behind that is, the important thing is that Craig Wright is proven to be a poseur

It would not be far away when the crypto will be used widely across the globe. Now as things is going to change post Corona Virus, we will have everywhere possible to go with the digital payment and less of manual intervention. Crypto is going to play a hug role in this space and in coming time this will be hitting a huge demand from the people.

Well, craig has a concrete way of proving ownership. But in not doing so, he's just making a full of himself. Now the early miner statement from 100 something mined blocks only makes him look like an idiot with cryptographic proof. And that's hopefully something the court can acknowledge. I'm sure he never cared about proving anything in a concrete way anyway, other than fooling some people that know little to nothing about bitcoin and were therefore likely to embezzle.