Bitcoin Forum

Where is Tom Lee? Similar to him, the people in the cryptospace has not heard of the name Paul Tudor Jones before hehehe.

In any case, institutions are the most dangerous types of investors. They were the cause of the financial crisis of 2007 - 2008.

https://i.ibb.co/K9H4hVX/C171-D1-AA-4-A84-4-A89-AA65-88401-B195-A2-F.jpg
Paul Tudor Jones, hedge fund manager

Weiss Ratings, a US-based investment data firm, is laying out what it will take for Bitcoin to hit $180,000.

In a new review of the top cryptocurrency, the firm says the financial world is beginning to wake up to the true potential of BTC as a safe-haven asset. Weiss points to growing demand for shares of the Grayscale Bitcoin Trust as a sign of rising institutional interest.

Weiss believes the entry of billionaire hedge fund manager Paul Tudor Jones into the Bitcoin futures market shows institutions are paying increasing levels of attention to the crypto markets. The firm calls BTC the “one safe-haven asset with the most profit potential” in an environment where central banks print money at will.

Read in full https://dailyhodl.com/2020/06/21/heres-the-case-for-bitcoin-btc-rise-to-180000-according-to-weiss-ratings/

I think that $180 K is way too high. Sure there are institutions coming in but unless every single fund manager buys a large share of their portfolio with Bitcoin then I don't see that figure happening especially short term.

Right now most fund managers are puzzled what to do , the stock market is rising, bankrupt companies like Hertz are pumping and kids are basically making more money than their parents. Hence markets are very erratic.

Don't you think it's strange to see a certain name pop up and then when it does it sticks around for months and months until the next cycle comes and another new name comes again? Who the hell is Paul Tudor and why do we help give guys like him visibility? Any idiot can make predictions, I'm a big example. Why is Tudor more important than me?

With all trading bots that work to make the price move in limited resistance levels, all platforms, increased oversight, and a lower return on mining, $ 20,000 will be a dream. 180,000 is impossible during the current decade.
like tom lee he intended to make some fame but is not intended to be based on any analysis or other logical methods.


This statement, he may try to pay the price for optimism and win some money.

180 thousand dollars a large amount, if achieved, would be good news for small investors. But we have heard the same news from major investors in the past, but the expectations were not real.
If there is a sound future vision on the part of the big investors, and they start joining the digital community, of course, Bitcoin will know prices that satisfy everyone, we must wait. Because the world is currently experiencing a real health crisis!

Weiss ratings, the operation that rated Cardano as a sounder proposition than Bitcoin. I'd be more inclined to pull the clinkers off my arse, throw them in the air and 'interpret' the pattern they make on landing.

I don't think that anyone believes right now that value of 180k is possible, such an exaggerated prediction is impossibe. Yes, you are right, Bitcoin is struggling to get over 10000$ and I think that such situation will continue for a while. From my perspective I don't think that 180000$ is a realistic goal so don't fool ourselves. One thing is to be optimist and think positive but the other is dream of such exaggerated values.

Another clueless noob, we were close to touching $20,000 in 2017, what makes you think it’d be a dream to equal that & go far beyond that?

The supply of newly mined coins has literally just been cut in half, the effects of that on the price haven’t been felt yet. When something of value becomes more scarce what do you think happens?

I’ll be surprised if we haven’t gone past $50,000 by 2022, banks are printing money like crazy, negative interest rates are coming. Bitcoin is the future, som! 

Seems everybody is confident about bitcoin to be performing 10x or more in coming months but this pandemic triggered economic slowdown could be playing the role to make us to think about the other way. I do not need Tom Lee nor any firm's opinion like this, I simply believe about bitcoin to be performing another 10x from current ATH or 100x from the low after ATH. Because bitcoin has proved its potential on this kind of rally last two times and nothing has changed since then for not expecting to be repeating same thing for the third time.

Unlike most other people here, I am seeing the possibilities on hitting $180k levels before end of next year. But, covid pandemic may play a spoiler role here on our speculation which may eventually delay on testing those levels but cannot completely block bitcoin from performing like these.

Weiss ratings were very wrong every month.  The moment when many institutional investors will start shilling Bitcoin will be dangerous moment since that will mean that their bags are full and they wait a pump to dump on those that will start hype buy.

Are this people making fun with us? I mean the words "safe haven" and "most profit potential" doesn't really go in the same sentence not unless you are describing the opposite thing. Safe Haven assets are the type of assets that can stand against any kind of volatility like gold which clearly Bitcoin isn't one and yes Bitcoin can be one of the assets that has the most earning potential but clearly Bitcoin cannot be both of them since it can't be a stable asset at the same time has the most earning potential. A billionaire hedge fund clearly is a good news for us and can boost the market presence of crypto in general however I won't assume that everything will go up because of this.

Speculations from average joe and speculations came from people who do have some notable position specially in finance industry
then its no surprising that they would really make more noise rather than us normal speculators.Yes, we havent heard up the name
and its not new that media and news source outlets would publish out these things no matter what.

180k prediction? Better if he do mind on saying that we would break out ATH soon which is more realistic compared into the recent
words that he do spit out.

These type of people do not get into bitcoin world or crypto world to make bitcoin go high, for that matter they do not go in to make it go low neither, they do not care about the price at all. They get in because they want to see bitcoin traded, as long as it is traded constantly they do not care about the price at all. They are the type of people who would make you lose money and go at it again and again after a while. So, I would say that bitcoin would be last of their worries, they want their commissions and as long as they get it that's it for them.

Hopefully they will not come in and destroy this market, look at stock market world it is fully filled with balloons and fake papers that actually wouldn't have worth anything but they try to make it happen so they can make profits.

Well, I respect his prediction but in a certain thing not to believe him nor to say he was near to the facts. Everyone could be in hypes, which makes them think for an unrealistic even in the future. I have a dream also that Bitcoin will reach to $200k. But that was a dream and have nothing to believe it, maybe this person also has a dream just like me.

Anyway, nothing to be impossible but I don't know if people could have the reason also to raise the bar on this. Besides, we are confident enough about the situation we have now ($9k-$10k). Not only the pandemic causes this but because this might only the market afford to flip.

I don't think $180k will happen soon, but by the end of the decade I'd be surprised if the price hasn't gone above $180k at least once. I think the current market cycle (maybe the next couple years) $80k-$100k is more likely. Then by the time there is another peak in mid-to-late 2020's absolutely $180k or higher seems reasonable. We'll probably also see a lot of inflation this decade, which will make $180k even easier to hit, but I think Bitcoin will hit that this decade even with just normal inflation.

A new name appears often every price speculation of Bitcoin when the bull run is about to happen. These people are like the so-called "boxing experts" often making a wild guess so that their names would matter but at the end of the day they don't really contribute that much. It's better to believe what you see than what you heard since you are in this market for a long time, do trust your own instinct and you will see the result will amaze you.

You can't generalize like that. That was primarily investment banks, not institutional investors at large. There are lots of conservative institutions like pension funds, endowments, fixed income mutual funds, insurance companies, and so on. In fact I think this probably represents the majority of institutional investors.


They're right about that. The $180K valuation is still rather random though.

There's no point speculating on a specific target for a bubble. Extrapolations have their limits. Each bull market cycle will differ in shape and magnitude. The level of hype and supply scarcity is impossible to predict. I could see the next bubble hitting $300K or $500K just as easily as $180K.

It's pretty obvious that those who predicted a big bitcoin price is a whale, and using it to promote bitcoin in which ever way they can, but it doesn't mean that they are experts, after all, we are all speculators in the market.

$180k is an absurd numbers to me, we can't barely goes to 5 digits without seeing any corrections. What more seeing 6 digits in the next coming years? And the market is on a cycle, boom and bust so it will be hard to achieved it without the bubble being burst, at $10k-30K per pop.

Then I believe $20,000 would also be an absurd number to you if someone told you to buy, and HODL during 2012?

Bitcoin has never crashed, and stayed under its 200-week SMA. 8)

A Bitcoin with another 5-10x more users, which is very possible in a few years, that isn't at that price level would be absurd. Production is only going one way - down. The numbers who become aware of it and buy in are only going the opposite way. That only has one conclusion.

Four years ago, let alone five or more years ago, if you'd told everyone here we'd be bored shitless around $10,000 people would rip your knickers off and set them on fire. Humans always massively overestimate the short term and humongously underestimate the long term.

Leave one's monkey brain behind and drink in the bigger view.

In a long term perspective, $180k ain't far from happening.
Every correction has always a corresponding good recovery. These boom and bust that you mentioned is part of a healthy market movements, this is where traders and investors are able to gain profit.
Nobody was even expecting a 10,000 Bitcoin can only buy a pizza, look how far Bitcoin have come in a span of 10 years.

Hedge funds speculate and trade on the underlying market, they are trying to guess on what we should know better then they do as we are the ones within crypto and most in a hedge fund have no daily use themselves though they might invest in companies which do.   I dont see the hedge funds are a reason to convince me only if they somehow underline something I missed previously.   Its good that mainstream finance takes an interest in BTC projects but its the people who use crypto who I want to see as joining not more speculators exactly.

It is true by the way in which people are really frustrated the price of bitcoin is stuck around $10k and in the past i never thought we would see those valuation this quickly and i still remember me waiting for the price to cross thousand dollars again and that was testing my patience for a very long time and 4 to 5 years down the line people are waiting for the price to crosss $10k, it is really crazy and we might see the one hundred thousand valuation in the future and i have the patience even though it might not happen in the next 5 years.

Here is a thought experiment: what if BTC crashes below the 200-week MA (currently ~$6,075) and stays there? Will that change your long term bullish view?

If not, then what needs to happen in a technical sense for you to question the bulls?

You got some point but you should at least consider on the current value we are in.This isnt something thats similar on cent price that we do have wayback or a few hundred of dollars.
We are already almost in 10k price and thinking of that we would shoot up to $180k or shall we say 18x the price then we must consider on what level of adoption we do need
before reaching those numbers.$50k is already hard to believe but no one really beats out that 1M per coin prediction made by McAfee.
This is just an another example of unrealistic speculations flying around.

I'm not saying that the cycle of boom and bust are that bad for the market, but it did REKT a lot of investors specially noobs and only the abled traders survived that crash in 2017 and stay here. And as the market mature, others may learn their lessons but majority would be irrational that thinking $180k could happen in the next 5-10 years.

The pizza analogy though for me is out of context, I mean he did that to prove something early in the days.

I am okay if the price crashes and stays at $6,075, and I do not change my long term bullish because of that. I will still wait for the bullish trend, no matter if that needs a long time than before. I already wait for more than 2 years, so waiting for more will not be a problem ;D

Nothing to happen in a technical because, in the end, the bulls will come, and I am sure it will happen not too long.

Only FUDders don't agree about the 6 digits capacity of Bitcoin to increase though we are all talking about whent his could happen.
Basically 5 digits has already done years ago and now the increase is what awaited us all.
Lets hope it will come near because many are already in selling point now.

Crashes below, and stays there for more than 3 years, yes, it will change my bullish view, but only on the price/market. It won't change my bullish view in Bitcoin as a decentralized, censorship-resistant cryptocurrency for self-sovereignty.


Quantum computers breaking the network with no fix from the Core developers.

Yes my friend we have to wait a long time to achieve some goals above 50 thousand. I think these large prices will be in the future, especially when the mining reward drops to 1.5btc per block!

That's long time of waiting but It has a possibilities but let see how bitcoins will grow in future if it survives for more decades, I'm sure that there are new technology on financing system will be created and hopefully bitcoins will never get affected on this and continuously grow so that we will see those prediction became reality.

the rise looks big right now that we have a rather large distance to go and the rises have not yet started. but as soon as they start you can see that it is not far at all. you can compare it with going from $800 to $20,000 in 2017. from $10k to $50k is tiny in comparison.
also another thing with future rises is that they keep getting bigger as the bitcoin growth speeds up.

If the price of bitcoin reaches to 180 thousand dollars per bitcoin that means bitcoin market cap (and not crypto, I mean literally just bitcoin) would reach to 10% of all stock market in USA. That means Nasdaq, Nyse, OTC combine every single stock market in all of USA that is around 37 trillion dollars (give or take, changes daily as you know from 30 to 40) and what we are talking about right now is 10% of that if the price reaches 180k since it would mean over 3 trillion dollars in total.

Right now not even the whole crypto market is like that, so it is quite unthinkable for bitcoin to reach those levels anytime soon. In 50 years? Who knows maybe bitcoin will overtake all of investment products and even stock market and become the most invested thing, but for now in the near future it will not get anywhere near that level.

10% of one stock market in one country vs something that is open to anyone anywhere 24/7 with internet access. That's over 3 billion people.

Your comparison has failed to give me a boner.

People really need to reframe their thinking here. The comprehension of sizeable numbers  really isn't our strong point. Zoom out and add it up properly.

It's the same as these people shrieking about the market needing to buy $8 million of mined coins a day to 'maintain the price', not that it actually needs to. If people could be arsed to figure it out that adds up to $40,000 per country per day. Holleeee shit.

3 years eh? That seems rather arbitrary. :P

Time is so unpredictable. While I don't give it a particularly high probability of happening, xxxx123abcxxxx's bearish case (his chart indicates price, not time) could put us in a bearish super cycle (to sub-$1K) for several years, before an eventual new bullish super cycle to ATHs. That would certainly wash out much of the current crop of perma bulls!



Here's the trouble with that. Price reflects supply and demand. If nobody is using BTC (thus the multi-year bear market) it's not all that useful for self-sovereignty is it? :P

Just playing devil's advocate.

It's personal based on my own psychology. I believe others would be more masochistic, and wait 30 years before changing their view. Haha.


Zoom out.


It's not? Try to make the government take my Bitcoin, or anyone's. 8)


But did the technology change your viewpoint on "money", and "moneyness"?

Safe-haven asset? Are they delusional?
Came COVID-19 and bitcoin was the second most affected asset, losing only to flight companies.
Of course it recovered, but the correlation with the legacy markets showed its no safe haven, as any crisis hitting them will also be hitting bitcoin.
This last crisis was similar to 2008, with the difference that this time it was enforced by governments. It was the 2008 crisis which prompted the creation of bitcoin, to act as a barrier against such crisis.

And still, there is the "profit potential" which means a lot.
They will just withdraw all of that bitcoin some time which leaves bitcoin what?

Another fall to $3k value.
Because of that, a lot of supporters of bitcoin will really think that it is just for profit-making tool and not as the future currency.
So what does it leave the value of bitcoin after all supporters are gone?
Another dust.

Perhaps they should change the way they look at things and not just for making another $.

i am still not convinced of this correlation which some people seem to have already accepted without any convincing evidence.

the drop was not even a new thing, we had a pretty fresh one with the size of -40% right before COVID19 even began. there was another even bigger drop which came to a total of nearly 50% right before that (mid 2019).

so where is the correlation in that? why are you people selecting 1 drop out of 3 and make the conclusion based on it?
what was the stock market doing during those drops? booming. what was stock market doing during early 2019 when bitcoin price had 3 major rises of total 250%? nothing. so where is the correlation again?

Doesn't Weiss rating generally side over towards unproven cryptocurrencies rather than favoring bitcoin despite the obvious advantage of the latter over the former? Anyway, more and more institutional investors are checking out bitcoin because there aren't many places for their money to go in the mean time where risk-to-reward ratio is good enough to take. They are just this confident on bitcoin today because it is performing well compared to their other babies which have taken a beating in the course of the pandemic. These guys would be gone when the world economy recovers and when they milk the shit out of the current bitcoin cycle, trust me.

I'm baffled by this sort of denialism. The evidence is the correlation itself. BTC is following the stock market almost exactly:

https://i.imgur.com/8THlH2e.png

https://i.imgur.com/l8sbUpE.png

Any divergences have been slight and generally occur when the stock markets are closed. This can all be verified with a correlation calculator too.

You can argue the markets will de-correlate but you can't argue a correlation doesn't exist.

Bitcoin IS a safe-haven. Society would have less dependence on their government maintaining monetary stablity because we have the fall-back. Hyperinflation in Iran, Venezuela, and Zimbabwe are examples.

The correlation of bitcoin with the stock markets shows its no different than buying stocks, so it wont give people any independence from the State. The State can just print money and use its controlled markets to pump and dump bitcoin like any other asset.

In fact, the State dont even need to have the asset, just buy and sell titles with leverage. Those controlling the printing machine, will control the price, so no safe haven here.

I've been hopeful for the market to rally high and particularly for Bitcoin to hit for another ATH but maybe I was not a kind of very optimistic person to think that much high $180k which is something out from reality for sure. Even we wait for another decade or two, or we disregard such volatility, it for sure we can reach that price. And I don't know how people would think about investing with that price.

Though we saw an increase in numbers using Bitcoin and crypto adoption but can't be enough to push the market volume into high leading for the price to skyrocket. May $20k back again is near to possibility but not $100k plus.

That money trickles into the BTC market too. The Fed isn't buying but institutions and retail investors are.

The market is treating both stocks and BTC like risk assets, but the difference is the magnitude of potential gains. That's what Paul Tudor Jones is getting at here, and I think he's right:


https://asiatimes.com/2020/05/tycoon-says-bitcoin-is-fastest-horse-in-race/

For reference, gold was trading in the $130s that year.

Bitcoin should trade above $180,000 after this last halving but it seems the covid19 has changed the equation. Bitcoin is not going to give more return the way it was in 2017. Bitcoin has established coronation with stocks and that has affected it volatility.

I hope that Brain costume is enough for Him to predict the Future price of Bitcoin and that 180,000$ will become true soon.

but we already knew that Tons of speculation already running here from so called "Knowledgeable person" .
really?180k supposedly this year but because of COvid it did not happen?

remember that the 2017 Bull run came from the 2016 halving meaning we are just in the beginning of the halving effect right?

Don't lose hope there are so many things to come for all of us.

Despite the problems that the coronavirus pandemic causes, Bitcoin still shows good results in the cryptocurrency market. This is indicated by coinmarketcap indicators, which can be checked and compared with the time of the active phase of a panic mood all over the world. One way or another, many cryptocurrency users regard Bitcoin as a defensive asset, which increases demand and increases the price, especially against the backdrop of a decline in the value of national cryptocurrencies in countries like Venezuela, Turkey and Iran. But the statement made by Wall Street Analyst and Fundstrat Global Advisors co-founder Tom Lee, who spoke in support of Bitcoin and said that the first cryptocurrency will have the best prospects among all cryptocurrencies in 2020, is especially interesting: whenever Bitcoin breaks through the 200-day moving average, each time the asset increases in price by almost 190%.

And gold now is $1770. Thats not even 20x in 50 years.

Bitcoin can reach 20x its current price in 5 years, if set loose.
I guess they are holding it on a leash, though. Notice the price never stays on five digits. It might touch it but soon it retraces back to the four digits.

Well I can't speak for him, but I don't think he necessarily meant to imply that BTC is limited to 13x or whatever gains over 50 years. It's more that BTC could be on a multi-decade bull run that eventually culminates in an epic blow off top.

Agreed! Use this tool to witness bitcoin's correlation with the dow jones and other stock markets around the world. They might be more than 70% correlated, I reckon, similar to the correlation of other assets of speculation.

https://i.ibb.co/yF9v09x/14-DB17-DB-E17-C-48-E0-9-FEC-307-D51-BEDBCC.jpg

https://unicornbay.com/tools/asset-correlations

In Bitcoin's path to price discovery, yes.


It IS independent, The State DOESN'T control Bitcoin, but the markets are connected like Euros and Dollars.


You can't buy heroine with "leveraged titles". 8)

never heard of the Man but of course i always admire and fond of people that says good about Bitcoin instead of those shit FUD and shills.

What he says are some kind of exaggerating but in the near future nothing is impossible specially in this Number 1 currency so lets give the man a benefit of the doubt.

and besides nothing will go wrong if we trust Him for our long term investment right?

But crypto market is far different from the past,specially the effect of halving from the past.
Now we can't even move up to 5 digits ,even if we reached suddenly falling at ounce and just letting us taste the 10k$ price.

Maybe what Paul Tudor Jones POinting here is the Highest price Bitcoin will ever be in the next couple of years.
But if when this to happen is the Biggest question that everyone will be harder to imagine.

though post like this are somewhat Boosting Bitcoin Holders faith to keep the HODL.

It is not way too high but rather wishful thinking at this moment.  I do not see BTC to reach $180k in our entire life.  Probably another century but then I am sure there is a far more advanced cryptocurrency that is created and Bitcoin will just be a part of the history/evolution of virtual currency if Bitcoin continues to stagnate on its development.

$ 180k for now is better not to be discussed, what should be discussed is how the price of Bitcoin right no?w is there a possibility of going through to another $ 10000 or going to $ 7500, analysis experts like Tom Lee should give an opinion

Then let's pretend it's 2012, and your friend told you that Bitcoin will reach $20,000 some day, what would you tell him? Wishful thinking?

There is a big difference between 20k and 180k and people will always ignore that in the end. When you go from 100 dollars to 20k you are talking about a market cap increase from around 2 billion dollars to 370 billion dollars, that is a huge 368 billion dollars increase and I think many people would fail to see that, if they did we would had a lot more people selling those days (even though there was a ton already).

However when you talk about 180k, that means the price is lets say 10k right now, it means market cap going from 1.85 billion dollars to 3.315 trillion dollars. TRILLION , as in 1000 billion. If you think they are the same thing you are kidding yourself, there is no world going from 100 dollars to 20k dollars is similar to going from 10k to 180k, the amount required is nowhere near the same, we are talking about 10x times bigger.

This is a must to discuss mate because don't forget that we are only waiting for the Bull that brings by the Bitcoin halving last may.

But for those who has no amount to risk as investment then the story is different,because all of Holders are the one that has a possibilities of making money at this point because of the ability and capacity to wait.

If we predicted that the price would reach $1000 during 2012 everyone would laugh and say that you are crazy let alone $20000 but to reach a valuation much above the present all time high valuation it will take a much longer period of time. We saw a massive rally because the entire market was new and funds houses and billionaires were investing in the hype and that lifted the price to the levels we see now but to reach hundred thousand i wont be surprised if we need to wait for a decade.

You know the great irony of that?

Stock investors are very reactive to Fed policy; stocks strongly recover anytime they announce they are injecting cash into the market. So in effect, central bank policies may be dictating the fate of BTC, at least temporarily. :D

You can post many reasons, but deep in your heart, you know you would NOT believe that Bitcoin will surge to $20,000 if the question was asked during 2012. I would never believe it too.

It should be a hard lesson learned for us. 8)