Bitcoin Forum

Economy => Scam Accusations => Topic started by: baikov on July 29, 2020, 10:06:49 AM



Title: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on July 29, 2020, 10:06:49 AM
Hello! I deposited 70eur to my account and got 370eur after some winnings. After I tried to withdraw for the first time ever and got my withdrawal rejected. I was asked to complete KYC procedure. I sent my local (Russian) passport and bank statement. After that I was asked to complete KYC using Veriff, where I took a picture with my international passport. After a few days security department asked me if I have any other account, which I actually just do not need. After I answered and waited some more days they asked if I know some other players and sent me their accounts (nicknames), which I saw for the first time because I didn’t know any other guys who use their service. After I answered they told that i am trying to launder money and that they will only send my deposit back. I am really angry because they blocked my account and I didn’t receive my winnings! HELP ME PLEASE!


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: actmyname on July 29, 2020, 10:27:54 AM
Can you provide any evidence of these claims? Screenshots, account page, emails, etc.

It's always better to have more backing your scam accusation than to have just your written words. Interesting how these cases are starting to appear more often... or perhaps, just being reported more often?


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on July 29, 2020, 11:03:45 AM
Can you provide any evidence of these claims? Screenshots, account page, emails, etc.

It's always better to have more backing your scam accusation than to have just your written words. Interesting how these cases are starting to appear more often... or perhaps, just being reported more often?

I made deposit with my card: https://prnt.sc/tqgw6q

Got my withdraw rejected and was asked to complete KYC using Veriff, but after that I had this messages: https://prnt.sc/tqgx4g and https://prnt.sc/tqgxrt

I asked for any evidence because I really do not know anybody from the listed usernames, but they didn’t show any. This is so crazy, that I posted my review everywhere I could... I can’t show my account page because it was blocked after their messages.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: owlcatz on July 29, 2020, 11:07:25 AM
Jesus christ. This shit again?

@sportsbet.io (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=832366) ? Where are you?!  ::)


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: dragonvsandroid on July 29, 2020, 12:25:32 PM
This doesn't look good. Yet another Sportsbet.io accusation of a winner withdrawing their winnings and being accused of multi-accounting without any evidence provided  ::)

Let's not forget they used to publically provide evidence of why KYC had failed, as well as evidence of multi-accounting. Now they no longer do, instead they just ignore these requests  :-\

I'm starting to wonder if they would be more responsive to scam accusations without current DT support? It's hard not to imagine they would be providing evidence to clear their name if certain flags were active against their account. There is little to no incentive for them to do this at present unfortunately.

Anyone opposing their flags better hope they are sitting on evidence. Otherwise it facilities a gambling site to refuse withdrawals of winners whenever they feel like it, just by referencing a handful of other random players. It's a dangerous precedent to be setting.

But hey, their T&C covers it right so nothing to worry about?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.0


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: sportsbet.io on July 29, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
Hello,

Can you please let me know your user name and I will check it out for you?

regards,

Steve,
sportsbet.io


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: sportsbet.io on July 29, 2020, 04:30:23 PM
This doesn't look good. Yet another Sportsbet.io accusation of a winner withdrawing their winnings and being accused of multi-accounting without any evidence provided  ::)

Let's not forget they used to publically provide evidence of why KYC had failed, as well as evidence of multi-accounting. Now they no longer do, instead they just ignore these requests  :-\

I'm starting to wonder if they would be more responsive to scam accusations without current DT support? It's hard not to imagine they would be providing evidence to clear their name if certain flags were active against their account. There is little to no incentive for them to do this at present unfortunately.

Anyone opposing their flags better hope they are sitting on evidence. Otherwise it facilities a gambling site to refuse withdrawals of winners whenever they feel like it, just by referencing a handful of other random players. It's a dangerous precedent to be setting.

But hey, their T&C covers it right so nothing to worry about?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.0

Hi please be advised we appreciate account and user security and we do not wish to put the dirty laundry out in the public.

There is no doubt that there is connect between the recent "oh my god, sportsbet.io is stealing from me" and the price increase in bitcoin

I hope this is not the case here and it is a clear multi accounting issue, but lets see :)

regards,

Steve.
Sportsbet.io


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: dragonvslinux on July 29, 2020, 04:59:03 PM
This doesn't look good. Yet another Sportsbet.io accusation of a winner withdrawing their winnings and being accused of multi-accounting without any evidence provided  ::)

Let's not forget they used to publically provide evidence of why KYC had failed, as well as evidence of multi-accounting. Now they no longer do, instead they just ignore these requests  :-\

I'm starting to wonder if they would be more responsive to scam accusations without current DT support? It's hard not to imagine they would be providing evidence to clear their name if certain flags were active against their account. There is little to no incentive for them to do this at present unfortunately.

Anyone opposing their flags better hope they are sitting on evidence. Otherwise it facilities a gambling site to refuse withdrawals of winners whenever they feel like it, just by referencing a handful of other random players. It's a dangerous precedent to be setting.

But hey, their T&C covers it right so nothing to worry about?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.0

Hi please be advised we appreciate account and user security and we do not wish to put the dirty laundry out in the public.

There is no doubt that there is connect between the recent "oh my god, sportsbet.io is stealing from me" and the price increase in bitcoin

I hope this is not the case here and it is a clear multi accounting issue, but lets see :)

regards,

Steve.
Sportsbet.io

Hi Steve, same person here, just multi-accounting  :P

It's good to hear your response in this thread, as well as the other (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.msg54894458#msg54894458). I understand there would be a correction between bitcoin go up and someone got my bitcoin and I want it back, it's a valid point. I think most users (bar the accusers) are hoping there is clear evidence of multi-accounting, this would resolve the matter swiftly and definitively.

I've reached out to who I believe are "shitik88" and "rasmus15", two of the four accused as part of the multi-account ring, since a bit of dirty laundry got aired in public.
Reference: https://prnt.sc/tqgx4g fom https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265366.msg54893612#msg54893612

Given the unique enough usernames and from a quick google search, I think it's fair to assume they are these individuals:
shitik88: https://www.instagram.com/shitik88 & https://www.youtube.com/user/shitik88
rasmus15: https://www.instagram.com/rasmus15/, https://github.com/Rasmus15 & https://soundcloud.com/rasmus15
as well as possibly newer accounts https://www.instagram.com/rasmus15.11/, https://www.tiktok.com/@rasmus15.11 & https://urlebird.com/user/rasmus15.11/

I've messaged them both via Instagram, in the hope they will respond and out of courtesy. I didn't bother with the other two referenced accounts, as the names appear too generic. shitik88 uploaded a photo 2 days ago, but rasmus15 hasn't for years. I realise it's a stab in dark here, but can't imagine there are too many rasmus' that desire no.15 after their usernames. or shitik's that chose 88, but could be wrong. At least a quick search doesn't appear to prove otherwise...




Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on July 29, 2020, 06:31:46 PM
Hello,

Can you please let me know your user name and I will check it out for you?

regards,

Steve,
sportsbet.io

My username was "baikov", before you blocked my account and I couldn’t even log in. And I am not interested in the bitcoin rise, because I used Russian rubles to top up my balance and played using euros.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: sportsbet.io on July 29, 2020, 07:49:34 PM
This doesn't look good. Yet another Sportsbet.io accusation of a winner withdrawing their winnings and being accused of multi-accounting without any evidence provided  ::)

Let's not forget they used to publically provide evidence of why KYC had failed, as well as evidence of multi-accounting. Now they no longer do, instead they just ignore these requests  :-\

I'm starting to wonder if they would be more responsive to scam accusations without current DT support? It's hard not to imagine they would be providing evidence to clear their name if certain flags were active against their account. There is little to no incentive for them to do this at present unfortunately.

Anyone opposing their flags better hope they are sitting on evidence. Otherwise it facilities a gambling site to refuse withdrawals of winners whenever they feel like it, just by referencing a handful of other random players. It's a dangerous precedent to be setting.

But hey, their T&C covers it right so nothing to worry about?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.0

Hi please be advised we appreciate account and user security and we do not wish to put the dirty laundry out in the public.

There is no doubt that there is connect between the recent "oh my god, sportsbet.io is stealing from me" and the price increase in bitcoin

I hope this is not the case here and it is a clear multi accounting issue, but lets see :)

regards,

Steve.
Sportsbet.io

Hi Steve, same person here, just multi-accounting  :P

It's good to hear your response in this thread, as well as the other (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.msg54894458#msg54894458). I understand there would be a correction between bitcoin go up and someone got my bitcoin and I want it back, it's a valid point. I think most users (bar the accusers) are hoping there is clear evidence of multi-accounting, this would resolve the matter swiftly and definitively.

I've reached out to who I believe are "shitik88" and "rasmus15", two of the four accused as part of the multi-account ring, since a bit of dirty laundry got aired in public.
Reference: https://prnt.sc/tqgx4g fom https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265366.msg54893612#msg54893612

Given the unique enough usernames and from a quick google search, I think it's fair to assume they are these individuals:
shitik88: https://www.instagram.com/shitik88 & https://www.youtube.com/user/shitik88
rasmus15: https://www.instagram.com/rasmus15/, https://github.com/Rasmus15 & https://soundcloud.com/rasmus15
as well as possibly newer accounts https://www.instagram.com/rasmus15.11/, https://www.tiktok.com/@rasmus15.11 & https://urlebird.com/user/rasmus15.11/

I've messaged them both via Instagram, in the hope they will respond and out of courtesy. I didn't bother with the other two referenced accounts, as the names appear too generic. shitik88 uploaded a photo 2 days ago, but rasmus15 hasn't for years. I realise it's a stab in dark here, but can't imagine there are too many rasmus' that desire no.15 after their usernames. or shitik's that chose 88, but could be wrong. At least a quick search doesn't appear to prove otherwise...




Hmm.. fair play!

Ill check this out,

thank you.

regards,

Steve,
Sportbet.io


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: UmerIdrees on July 30, 2020, 01:27:56 PM
Hello,

Can you please let me know your user name and I will check it out for you?

regards,

Steve,
sportsbet.io

My username was "baikov", before you blocked my account and I couldn’t even log in. And I am not interested in the bitcoin rise, because I used Russian rubles to top up my balance and played using euros.

It will be interesting to see what sportsbet will come up with this investigation.

Hello! I deposited 70eur to my account and got 370eur after some winnings.

By the way did you get back your deposit of 70 Euro ?  If yes, then its the matter of 300 Euros only which is not much for a bookie to pay you if you have won it legally.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on July 30, 2020, 02:34:57 PM
Hello,

Can you please let me know your user name and I will check it out for you?

regards,

Steve,
sportsbet.io

My username was "baikov", before you blocked my account and I couldn’t even log in. And I am not interested in the bitcoin rise, because I used Russian rubles to top up my balance and played using euros.

It will be interesting to see what sportsbet will come up with this investigation.

Hello! I deposited 70eur to my account and got 370eur after some winnings.

By the way did you get back your deposit of 70 Euro ?  If yes, then its the matter of 300 Euros only which is not much for a bookie to pay you if you have won it legally.

Yes, i have got my deposit back and had my account banned after this, but it is pretty unpleasant not to receive winnings, as i am sure they would never return my deposit if my bets lost.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: owlcatz on July 31, 2020, 01:55:11 PM
Yeah - You at least got your deposit back. What more can you ask for here, at least you didn't lose it all and maybe you got cheated, maybe you didn't, but this case is closed as far as we are concerned I think. Cheers and avoid that site from now on obviously. I'm sure there are better/safer ones, but not a big gambler anymore myself. :P


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on July 31, 2020, 05:01:08 PM
Yeah - You at least got your deposit back. What more can you ask for here, at least you didn't lose it all and maybe you got cheated, maybe you didn't, but this case is closed as far as we are concerned I think. Cheers and avoid that site from now on obviously. I'm sure there are better/safer ones, but not a big gambler anymore myself. :P

Why do you think that my case is closed? Sportsbet.io did provide any evidence of multi-accounting? I chose a website from the list of trusted ones from SportsBookReview, and after this they can just send deposit back to a winner and just close the case? Sounds ridiculous.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: owlcatz on July 31, 2020, 05:02:15 PM
Why do you think that my case is closed? Sportsbet.io did provide any evidence of multi-accounting? I chose a website from the list of trusted ones from SportsBookReview, and after this they can just send deposit back to a winner and just close the case? Sounds ridiculous.


Only you and sportsbet know the full details, so I can't comment any further, sorry.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: actmyname on July 31, 2020, 08:09:56 PM
Only you and sportsbet know the full details, so I can't comment any further, sorry.
It's kind of strange, the resolution of this:

You have a player that voluntarily gave up KYC, presumably expecting to be cleared of concerns and to be given his winnings. Unfortunately, though, the KYC turned out to have no effect on the case and they decided to close out their account and only return the deposit.

Outcome:

Sportsbet.io gets a user's KYC for free.
Am I missing something here?


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: adam0991 on July 31, 2020, 10:48:36 PM
Only you and sportsbet know the full details, so I can't comment any further, sorry.
It's kind of strange, the resolution of this:

You have a player that voluntarily gave up KYC, presumably expecting to be cleared of concerns and to be given his winnings. Unfortunately, though, the KYC turned out to have no effect on the case and they decided to close out their account and only return the deposit.

Outcome:

Sportsbet.io gets a user's KYC for free.
Am I missing something here?

Sportsbet.io are yet to comment on this, Steve has said he will look into it.

Hopefully they can resolve this. Seems sportsbet.io are being hit with a lot at the moment


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on August 05, 2020, 05:10:08 PM
Can you provide any evidence of these claims? Screenshots, account page, emails, etc.

It's always better to have more backing your scam accusation than to have just your written words. Interesting how these cases are starting to appear more often... or perhaps, just being reported more often?

Was scrolling my phone gallery and suddenly found these pictures of last days of my account, it was like 2 days before sportsbet stole all of my winnings... I tried to withdraw 240 euros but my request was rejected soon..

https://imgur.com/je1UaNk
https://imgur.com/H9z6ot1


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: adam0991 on August 05, 2020, 08:49:24 PM
What were you betting on? Was it table tennis by any chance?

Seems they may have some users abusing their table tennis markets, not implying you are involved, but maybe they believe you are


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on August 06, 2020, 07:27:57 PM
What were you betting on? Was it table tennis by any chance?

Seems they may have some users abusing their table tennis markets, not implying you are involved, but maybe they believe you are

I only placed bets on e-Football, i am not good at table tennis so i didn't bet on it at all.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: JollyGood on August 07, 2020, 08:39:34 PM
Did you read their Terms and conditions? According to their ToS they are under no obligation to disclose anything to you or anybody else.

At least you got your deposit back.

My advice is to forget playing Sportsbet. Do not open another account at Sportsbet and instead find a competitor website to play.



Hello! I deposited 70eur to my account and got 370eur after some winnings. After I tried to withdraw for the first time ever and got my withdrawal rejected. I was asked to complete KYC procedure. I sent my local (Russian) passport and bank statement. After that I was asked to complete KYC using Veriff, where I took a picture with my international passport. After a few days security department asked me if I have any other account, which I actually just do not need. After I answered and waited some more days they asked if I know some other players and sent me their accounts (nicknames), which I saw for the first time because I didn’t know any other guys who use their service. After I answered they told that i am trying to launder money and that they will only send my deposit back. I am really angry because they blocked my account and I didn’t receive my winnings! HELP ME PLEASE!


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: Fag20 on August 07, 2020, 09:46:41 PM
Another Russki scammer haha. These guys are as subtle as a brick through a window.

All betting on table tennis? Skam is obvious is skam, how much are you guys paying the bent player(s)

Hmmmmm

Hi please be advised we appreciate account and user security and we do not wish to put the dirty laundry out in the public.

There is no doubt that there is connect between the recent "oh my god, sportsbet.io is stealing from me" and the price increase in bitcoin

I hope this is not the case here and it is a clear multi accounting issue, but lets see :)

regards,

Steve.
Sportsbet.io

Hi Steve, same person here, just multi-accounting  :P

It's good to hear your response in this thread, as well as the other (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5263445.msg54894458#msg54894458). I understand there would be a correction between bitcoin go up and someone got my bitcoin and I want it back, it's a valid point. I think most users (bar the accusers) are hoping there is clear evidence of multi-accounting, this would resolve the matter swiftly and definitively.

I've reached out to who I believe are "shitik88" and "rasmus15", two of the four accused as part of the multi-account ring, since a bit of dirty laundry got aired in public.
Reference: https://prnt.sc/tqgx4g fom https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5265366.msg54893612#msg54893612

Given the unique enough usernames and from a quick google search, I think it's fair to assume they are these individuals:
shitik88: https://www.instagram.com/shitik88 & https://www.youtube.com/user/shitik88
rasmus15: https://www.instagram.com/rasmus15/, https://github.com/Rasmus15 & https://soundcloud.com/rasmus15
as well as possibly newer accounts https://www.instagram.com/rasmus15.11/, https://www.tiktok.com/@rasmus15.11 & https://urlebird.com/user/rasmus15.11/

I've messaged them both via Instagram, in the hope they will respond and out of courtesy. I didn't bother with the other two referenced accounts, as the names appear too generic. shitik88 uploaded a photo 2 days ago, but rasmus15 hasn't for years. I realise it's a stab in dark here, but can't imagine there are too many rasmus' that desire no.15 after their usernames. or shitik's that chose 88, but could be wrong. At least a quick search doesn't appear to prove otherwise...





Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on August 08, 2020, 07:46:40 PM
Another Russki scammer haha. These guys are as subtle as a brick through a window.

All betting on table tennis? Skam is obvious is skam, how much are you guys paying the bent player(s)

Hmmmmm

You'd better read the topic before you come to such conclusion. I didn't bet on table tennis at all.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: saturent on August 08, 2020, 08:02:32 PM
Another Russki scammer haha. These guys are as subtle as a brick through a window.

All betting on table tennis? Skam is obvious is skam, how much are you guys paying the bent player(s)

Hmmmmm

You'd better read the topic before you come to such conclusion. I didn't bet on table tennis at all.
These accounts have been created to attack all the recent complaints against Sportsbet.io, pathetic and a waste of time.. just ignore the bs as their stupidity already discredits them.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: sportsbet.io on August 10, 2020, 01:59:20 PM

Hi guys,

User baikov was informed of the final decision and has been sent back their deposit 2nd last week in July (21st) to thier E-CommPay account.


regards,

Steve.
Sportbet.io.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: saturent on August 10, 2020, 03:32:16 PM

Hi guys,

User baikov was informed of the final decision and has been sent back their deposit 2nd last week in July (21st) to thier E-CommPay account.


regards,

Steve.
Sportbet.io.
Baikov, you should create a flag against sportsbet.io as they will keep on ignoring the complaints against them anyway.

We need to take action. I have just created a flag for what happened to me (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2203 ) and we will only stop this fraud together.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on August 19, 2020, 05:53:08 PM

Hi guys,

User baikov was informed of the final decision and has been sent back their deposit 2nd last week in July (21st) to thier E-CommPay account.


regards,

Steve.
Sportbet.io.

So, it took you 2 weeks to repeat what i already stated in this topic? Hahaha =))) I am still waiting for my winnings, scammers.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: badobadobist on August 20, 2020, 02:58:35 PM

Hi guys,

User baikov was informed of the final decision and has been sent back their deposit 2nd last week in July (21st) to thier E-CommPay account.


regards,

Steve.
Sportbet.io.
Obvious scam you deserve a flag.
We knew he got his deposit and where is his winnings ? And you didn't provide evidence of multi accounts. 
 
ASCAM


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: JollyGood on August 20, 2020, 03:33:17 PM
Baikov, you should create a flag against sportsbet.io as they will keep on ignoring the complaints against them anyway.

We need to take action. I have just created a flag for what happened to me (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;flag=2203 ) and we will only stop this fraud together.


In your case there was no fraud because you admitted you breached Sportsbet ToS which means they will probably never pay you funds you claim are owed to you.


I dont care if you dont refund my money.

Why did you delete your comment, shall we share it for everyone to read?

Quote from: saturent
I am not able to send more than two PMs daily, that is why I could not answer.

When you say "again", you mean the 99% of messages I got without a clarification, I guess.

Sadly, you only start to provide more specific answers when something like a flag is created.

Anyway.. now you accuse me of depositing from a wallet that was used on several different accounts.

However, these accounts do not belong to me.

I explained it to your security department but I was totally ignored.

I am going to explain it again, opently and honestly.. I did not expect to be forced to share this publicly since the evidence (KYC) does not conclude anything but, I will.

I use a shared wallet, I told to your department that there might be some accounts linked since my partner was playing with you lately this year. (I have no knowledge at all of the usernames he used and this was all a supposition, whatsoever)

He had his KYC fully verified as far as I know, and you will see we are not the same person.

I believe I did not break any rule opening an account with you while my partner had already his, since we are two different people.

I also explained,.. he excluded himself in several occasions due to gambling issues but was always able to create another account (never flagged for multiaccounting while losing.. Huh)

I can provide you full details as I know he was in touch with the manager of one of your departments (the one handling selfexclusions), regarding the ability to open new accounts after requesting exclusion several months ago.

And now I ask you... why hasnt he ever been flagged/banned when creating new accouns? On this kind of situation, you do not mention "multiaccounting" , huh? As you know the player is unable to control himself and will just lose it all.. that benefits you and then, zero flags for your loved "multiaccounting" excuse.

When I make a totally new account for myself and I have some profits, then you flag it immediately.. curious, huh?

Sorry but you can not link these accounts to me since we are two different people.

I played by myself.. and I believe you can verify all this since we both underwent KYC..

Therefore and again, the funds.. the tiny profits I had.. belong to me.

My partner lost way much on your site from the moment he asked for selfexclusion until today.. always able to deposit, never flagged. That makes you really "responsible".

Just return my funds and stop this BS.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on August 24, 2020, 10:58:08 PM
@sportsbet.io I repeat one more time. I want you to pay my winnings.


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: baikov on November 10, 2020, 09:01:36 AM
Hello everybody once again. Sportsbet now deletes everything i post in their topic because it is self moderated. All the scam accusations are hided once they appear. This is so disgusting. Good luck with your scam business. @sportsbet.io @JollyGood @badobadobist @Get-Paid.com @saturent @actmyname @owlcatz @dragonvsandroid @dragonvslinux @UmerIdrees


Title: Re: Confiscated balance at sportsbet.io
Post by: efxes on November 10, 2020, 01:25:03 PM
good luck man. this industry is going down the drain.  There's too much competition and not enough sports action, and it is showing the dark side of the industry when they are able to take player money with no repercussion due to dwindling income from the books.