Bitcoin Forum

i have been searching for a bitcoin exchange that is decentralized but i i have three problems:

1. some of what i find are not actually decentralized!

2. 90% of these decentralized exchanges are actually token swaps. but i have no interest in tokens, i am looking for an actual exchange where i can trade cryptocurrencies. i am not interested in tokens

3. finally it is the fees. it makes no sense to me to pay fees to a centralized authority while using a decentralized exchange! and sometimes their fees are also too high...

can you introduce me to an actual decentralized cryptocurrency exchange that has no trading fees (everything happening P2P)?

Whats in it for them I'm wondering but also I'd like to know the answer if it exists :)

It will be difficult to find decentralized exchanges as such. I know Airswap decentralized exchange, it's a Peer-to-peer token trading on Ethereum, without trading fees( you are required to stake some certain amount of airswap tokens to benefit zero trading fees).

Why does it seem to you that some exchanges are not fully decentralized? Is there some evidence to back your claim, if so I am sure everyone would be willing to dig into it.

While a certain compromise may be done on part of the exchange but running so would be unethical or against their said terms. I agree that token swaps are the thing but then we have no other choice in the platter. If you want to simplest bitcoin<>altcoin change then a CEX is better in terms of both liquidity and ease but bad in terms of trading fees.

No trading fee would mean no earning for the exchange. They need to reap some profit otherwise they are going to go bankrupt.

these developers are making money when people use their product which isn't a bad thing but i still don't like the idea of it, i prefer peer to peer trades if i am to use a "decentralize" exchange.

in a list i saw there was a couple  of them that didn't look decentralized at all because they were using a server that could also log everything. there is also binance DEX that exists in most list and is fully centralized with all the sign up requirements and the restrictions it has!

if i wanted to use CEX i wouldn't have started this topic!

a real decentralized, peer to peer exchange has no cost for them to go bankrupt. it is fully peer to peer, it means you are using your own computer to connect to another person's computer and make a swap.
it is like saying "bitcoin core devs have to take a fee from each transaction we send using bitcoin core or they will go bankrupt"

Maybe you're right in the comments above. But for this matter, you are looking for something truly ridiculous  ::) Think, why are exchanges established and operating in the market? Is it meant to help people exchange currency? No, currency exchange is your need, their need is to make money. Nobody can maintain a free exchange platform, you understand? Nobody just gives it away without taking it back, when you use something, you have to pay for it. Any exchange is looking for profits, and they need to charge users fees. Today, many exchanges use their own currencies as transaction fees. I think it's the cheapest way to trade. But no transaction is free  ;)

i never see anything like that. i guess what you can do is doing it manually by posting thread when you need to exchange stuff. token swaps are the closest one for now but the fees are ridiculously high since you need to execute a smart contract call twice (on ETH). probably need to spend $5 just on fees for a single trade.

maybe you can use bisq too but the volume is probably low.

I have opened, some months ago, a thread about decentralized exchanges which use the atomic swap mechanism:

Atomic swap tools and exchanges for Bitcoin (work-in-progress) (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5171728.0)

The atomic swap mechanism is P2P and so it should normally not lead to fees, apart from transaction fees (which are pretty high as up to 5 transactions per trade are involved, 2-3 of them on the Bitcoin blockchain).

The most advanced exchange based on that mechanism seems to be AtomicDEX (https://atomicdex.io/), which was previously known as BarterDEX and has now a mobile-first-approach (which I don't like that much). It has, however, some fees for "takers", which may be related to the transaction fees. There is also Liquality, but it supports few currencies.

Really 100% without fees (with the exception of transaction fees) you can trade with a command line tool like ZBXCat or the Decred Atomic swap tool. But it may be difficult to find trading partners, and some of these tools are outdated.

The other exchange I know, which is probably the only one where you can make fiat<->Bitcoin trades, is Bisq (https://bisq.io). However, it has some fees, which go to the escrower.

If you are talking about trading fiat to bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency, then I am not aware of any DEX which doesn't charge at least a minimal fee. The ones which you will most commonly see recommended - Bisq, Hodl Hodl, and LocalCryptos - all have fees of around 0.25% - 0.75% per trade, depending on whether you are the maker or the taker. If you want to trade fiat to bitcoin feelessly, then you are probably going to be limited to finding a trading partner yourself on this forum or similar, and trading directly with them without escrow.

If you are talking about trading bitcoin to altcoins, then outside of direct P2P trades as above then some sort of atomic swap as outlined by d5000 will be your best bet for avoiding fees altogether.

thanks for the excellent list, i have to bookmark it for now and go through each project.
about Bisq, i have already downloaded the installer  and went through the documentation. i have to say it looks like a solid project and i liked it so far. i'll probably use that for trading bitcoin with fiat and look into atomic swaps for altcoin with bitcoin trades.

i want both actually. but mainly i am trying different methods to find what i like best. so far i have always used centralized exchanges and i am sick and tired of their nonsense. :P

I would consider only Bisq exchange as really decentralized open-source and real p2p exchange for trading Bitcoins,
but you will need some time installing and getting used to it.
One alternative is hybrid Waves exchange with gateways for Bitcoins and few other coins, so it is not fully decentralized.