Bitcoin Forum

So if we change the system that money will be not Born from the debt?
What will be other way then?
And how it will be controlled how much money is given away to people to use it.


This Question is specially for those who is against this debt based economy?

The other way is Bitcoin(the future) and gold(the past).
Back in the past,when gold was actual money,precious metals like gold and silver had to be mined,which means that certain resources had to be invested in order to "produce money".Bitcoin works the same way,you have to invest resources(capital,labor,electricity)in order to mine Bitcoins.You give value to get value.
With paper fiat money,you don't give value to get value.They are just printed,and you have to trust the government and pretend that those debt money have value.

In the future it might be better if the money is not from debt. Money may come from services performed, such as miners, who confirm every transaction and get the reward. and all of that is not controlled because of decentralization.

I don't see a problem with debt and economics going hand in hand. You will never be able to make it big when you don't have a lot of money, fundraising has created unicorn startups like Google, Facebook and Microsoft now.
We've always had bad debt and good debt, and if we were to use it for good business to increase sales, that would be too great. Also, don't touch the bad debt that our economy is always growing.

Well, here you are again trying to come up with a Bicycle.
Do you think you are no different from people who once decided to use gold/precious stones as a measure of value? No, you are different. Ancient people understood why they needed gold and saw a direct need to optimize the purchase and sale process.
Now , what's wrong with the debt economy? Well, do not take out loans yourself, do not use a credit card and live exclusively on your own funds. Have you ever done business bigger than a local ice cream shop? If so, you should understand that it is impossible to conduct business exclusively on own money (only if you are not a super-successful company that has come up with a totally popular innovation). It is very difficult to take money out of your pocket to upgrade the material base or expand production - that is why there are loans.
And so in everything.
So this kind of reasoning is rather just a concussion of the air as for me which has no real prerequisites.

Debt is the economic equivalent to leverage with investments or gambling. Higher economic debt is correlated with greater potential profit in finance. This is the reason behind investment banks preferring debt based economies. In theory the debt portion of the economy allows them to make bigger leveraged debt based investments, which in theory, allow for bigger profits and paydays.

It comes at greater risk, reduced economic and financial stability. The results of playing with leveraged debt based assets can be disastrous as we've witnessed with debt bubbles associated with the "subprime mortgage" collapse of 2008.

People trend towards discussing systemic faults or benefits present in paradigms like debt based economies in an effort to comprehend and explain events. Human nature is defined in terms of wanting to simplify and generalize one thing being intrinsically superior to something else in a world of black and white.

I think culture plays a big role that is neglected. Business culture and general pop culture are not static constants. They shift and change over time.

Let's go back in the past and just do barter. You pay what you have in exchange for the things that you are about to get food, water and other necessities. It's real-life trading of goods and services you have for another goods and services that you want.

But, I still can see that debt could start out with that kind of economy. Changing the system will require you tremendous resources and power. There's no coming back and this kind of economy will remain.

The question is not if we need a new system , the question is how do we handle this system ?

The fact is Debt based economy can flourish well but only in the case where the governance is meticulous and well educated. Unfortunately the government fails to provide well thought laws and conditions, we can even take the case of US , people are well aware of the fact that dollar is currently a bubble and the value will go down in the future. There are countries whose main investment is USD , now they will fall down with them too.

What we need is : Good Governance, Educated and well balanced so that they are able to take accurate decisions unswayed by personal opinions.

- decentralized economy can be very well integrated
- Government needs to curb the corruption , they can just use the blockchain technology and take care of every transaction that there is

They can either switch it or improve it , improvement is easier and can be done in matter of days .

Question is: Will they do it?

OP, VERY GOOD question, but I believe NO ONE in the forum is qualified enough to answer such a simple, but "heavy", question.

The question is so profound, the Austrians, the Keynesians, and all other schools of thought in Economics don't have the "one definite answer".

An alternative to the debt based economy is the system where has inherent value, such as a gold standard. I don't think that Bitcoin backed money is possible.

Ok! Nice question! Being an Economics enthusiast, I have surely given thought to that in past. I have come up with a revolutionary although quite complicated idea. I have named it 'Weighted Layer Classification of Money'.

So under current Debt based economy, money can be generated out of thin air due to the working of 'money multiplier'. By keeping X amount in reserves, banks can further lend the money they received as deposits. This process continues till (1/reserve rate) rounds. In the end, if reserve rate is 10%, for every $100 there will be 100 * (1/10%) = $1000 money in the economy. It leads to inflation, fall in PPP, ever-increasing debts, high rates of interests and many other problems.

Under Weighted Layer Classification of Money, I suggest to have 3 to 5 layers of money. So rather than having one currency in the economy, I suggest to have 3 to 5 different currencies in the economy.

Under 3-Weighted Layers Classification,
-there will be one prime currency, let say, Dollar. The value of this currency will be floating.
-then there will be first secondary currency, let say Follar. The value of this currency will be fixed to 0.80 * Dollar.
-then there will be second secondary currency, let say Gollar. The value of this currency will be fixed to 0.60 * Dollar.

Banks can accept deposits in any of the three currencies. However, lending structure will be as following:

For every 1 Dollar received as deposit, bank can only lend 1 Follar.
For every 1 Follar received as deposit, bank can only lend 1 Gollar.
Banks cannot further lend the Gollars received as deposit.

Interest on Borrowings will be charged in same layer. So if bank lent loan in Follars, it can only charge interest in Follars.
Interest on Deposits will be paid in one-below layer. So if bank accepted deposits in Dollars, it has to pay interest in Follars except for Gollars.

Using this system, there will be a weighted control on how much money can be generated in economy plus borrowing activities can still be performed in economy. We cannot create zero-debt economy because debt is also a backbone of the economy. In the absence of debt structure, many ventures won't able to get launched which will seriously affect economy.

Actually, this is an overview of the model I proposed to a DeFi project which contacted me for a suggestion of a system for their lending/borrowing functionality. I thought this could be a good fit to this thread so I posted here. However, there is lot more technicality involved which I think is out of this thread's scope so I won't discuss.

I think we are confusing concepts here, lending has always existed regardless of the form of money being used, and when it comes to private enterprise is completely natural to ask for loans to develop an invention, that is not really where the problem lays.

The problem with the current system is fiat money, while in theory fiat money could work as long as governments did not abused their power to print as much of it as they want this trust has always been betrayed by governments around the world, then when things finally get out of control they try to limit your ability to use your money as you want until the fiat currency collapses or it has to be backed by something like gold.

So we have two options, one is to go to the old and tested gold standard, you could still ask for loans under such system with the difference you will have to pay with gold backed assets or directly with gold, the next option is to look forward to the future and use bitcoin, this is untested and most likely will not be the preferred option of politicians in the case they have to take that voice but it is there regardless.

Every country has its own debt history and it will never fade away because it will continue to grow over time. If there’s no debt then that country must able to support their needs on their own and its really hard to fund your projects. The barter can be a good alternative just like the old days but i think it will not work on this era, cash debt is everything now.

Since the issue of printing money surfaced in my country, there is another line of scholarship that has received attention, namely post Keynesian economic theory known as MMT (modern monetary theory) initiated by Michael Hudson.

For this group money printing can be done not by way of debt but through several instruments, namely:

- Print money based on multi-layered projects, so real, productive and independent projects that become collateral in the settlement of money.

- Printing money using a sovereign wealth fund, state assets in the form of valuable minerals that have not been mined, are used as collateral to produce and mine these valuable minerals.

If using the MMT instrument, a country does not depend on the dollar, does not depend on the IMF, does not depend on debt and does not depend on the Chinese OBOR project which incidentally is the practice of MMT also on a cross-country scale. With MMT a country's economy can be sovereign.

The fact that only debt motivates people to work and to create unique products. Imagine a runner because they like to exercise and a runner because a lion is chasing in the back. Who will be faster?
Out of 100 borrowers, 30 may not be able to repay their debt. But surely the other 30 will find a way to get back the property they lost from the lender. That is the driving force of growth.
For the vision of a country, I think that debt is not bad, but bad debt, unable to pay off debt is bad. To deal with bad debts countries print cash and dilute them throughout the entire economic system and balance everything as a result of the value of goods going up, everyone's income going up. I think that balancing the scale of the economy needs a great state adjustment. They need to control most of the country's economy and reduce the influence of multinationals.

It sounds like a good idea for utopian financial system, how can it be realized?

Even in the future, debt would not go away. It's not possible. If we move away from paper money and go all digital, there would still be need for debt because it's a fundamental part of the continual building of the economy. There will always be people looking to keep excess cash and wanting to earn returns on such fund while at the same time, there will always be businesses that needs capital for expansion so even if personal debt is discouraged, what of corporate debt in other to build the economy.

Disagree. Bitcoin as a replacement of the current economical system is only a fictionary scenario. How do you really imagine the economy'd work in a completely decentralized manner? In a way where money can't be seized and the gov has 0 control over it? Banks won't let this happen, so would any other centralized institution or the rich. It'd be a big failure.

For DeFi, which in reality, are only experimental cryptocurrency-play-things and glorified Ponzi Schemes, it's OK. But for actual central banking, and monetary issuance? I believe it just adds complexity, but with little added benefit.

Although, I'm not an economist, I'm just a pleb. Hahaha.

I don't think there's a way around to get out from the dept based system. Since the country needs money/investment for the development of various sectors. It's all messed up really.

Laissez-Faire (https://www.britannica.com/topic/laissez-faire) plus going back to commodity money (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodity_money)?

https://mises.org/library/how-does-money-acquire-its-value

Well, if you have a limited amount of money and there is no more new money, there is only one option left, the rich will have to share, because there are no more money that we could create and print, which means poor who have nothing will require to get money somehow, so if they keep working they will get the money from the rich who will pay their salary and if they do not have any left at the end of the month they can't spend it on new iphones and big Samsung tv's and so forth, that is why everyone will be a bit more "poorer" in the general sense but the gap will close and everyone have a bare minimum amount of money instead of right now where people who keep getting poorer because dollar loses value while rich people get more of it at faster rate whereas poor people get lower rate of it.

Going back to the old way of buying and selling goods, barter, will be chaotic. It is simply as decentralization in disguise coz there is no regulation on the value, like some values the rock more than the metal and they would not trade it unless you doubled what metals you got. Barter won't do so much now, as much as I think of it, it is very problematic. There will be a lacking of measurable common value.

Changing or restarting the system will so much, the government knows it, coz if it so easy to fix things in the system they could have done it a decade before so they could avoid financial and economy problems. Huge and wealthy countries might cope up easily but those poor countries, like mine, will get poorer.

Most of the countries in the world have a debt-based economy, this can be a good thing if country have good governments too.
But the reality is that the corruption rate is quite high in various countries. This make debt-based economy comes at risk,
if the government is not good at managing state finances, the citizens who will become victims of course.

We we're experiencing it in the previous administrations, even no matter how good our president is now. There are too many flaws and debts left by the previous administrations that didn't been take care off and feel by the citizens. Now all the blames of having too much debt were put into the present administration were in fact it can only be seen before the pandemic how good in performing the economy been and improving. This Pandemic our country were put in a much debt to be avail to provide foods and supplies to more needy.
There should be a proper allocation of money, be transparent to their people and no corruption to provide better service for their countrymen.

You are right about DeFi. Decentralization has both benefits as well as drawbacks. At one side, DeFi allow us to create modelled economic functions like borrowing/lending, market operations, etc and commit the rules to blockchain via smart contracts so they work as defined no matter what. But at the same time, blockchain is heavily abused by spammers/scammers who create good-for-nothing contracts in order to earn quick bucks and there is no way to stop them because blockchain is decentralized.

Same happened to Ethereum chain is 2017-18 when `ICO Boom` over-glorified Ethereum but that didn't end well. We do have some great projects which used ETH ecosystem to create big Business Value (BV) by tokenizing valuable assets or services. One great example is DIGITAL GOLD, the project which has successfully tokenized gold on ethereum blockchain and maintaining par-value with real world gold.

However, problem initiated when people started promising `stars and moon` on-chain and diluted ICO/tokens market. Same is happening with DeFi. YAM token is one great example.

In my view, a debt-based economy is possible for people only, but for states and governments, it does more harm than good. For people on the individual level, you can build your own business through debt, achieve success and profits, then pay off the debt and end your problem.
As for countries, the matter is completely different. In my opinion, a debt-based economy cannot succeed, perhaps achieving some successes in the beginning, but in the end it must end in failure and the debtor's subordination to the creditor state, this matter will reflect on politics and the state will become non-sovereign as a result of its need for loans continuously.
In fact, you can see a lot of countries that are economically booming but they are really not fully sovereign because their economy is based on debt. A fully sovereign state must rely on its own resources and be able to make its decisions without any external pressure as a result of debt or anything else.

The issue with being in debt with other countries is huge risk. When one country has financial issues, everyone is effected. The main problem I'd say is that the global economy has forgotten what independent country economies are. One country depends too much on another and so on. Perfect example not too long ago: USA and China. One simply can't live without another.

I'd say we have to go back to industrialization and more physical jobs than just relying on services. When the economy weakens, services aren't that needed. The more basic needs and products become important. People tend to save on psychologists for example since it's not their first need.

Countries have to be absolutely more self-determined. Maybe going back to gold and other truly existing currencies (most money on the market doesn't even exist) will make things develop at a slower pace, but definitely makes it safer. Looks what Corona has done to the global economy...

if a country will be debt free economy then it would be a happy life.. we can enjoy goods and services and benefits from the government. and less corrupt people in the position.

the problem it is not controllable in general. anyone who is going to claim opposite is just trying to put economy in a shitty place.

I don’t think some time in the future debt would be totally eliminated.

Debt is plays an important role to the economy. There will be times that a country will need more funds to build infrastructures and to sustain some developmental projects. The government would then have to borrow for the operations to start. Same goes with big and small enterprises. These businessmen tend to borrow money from the banks to improve and to expand their businesses. They allot their funds for the betterment of their establishment to gain profit. And the list goes on and on.

You see, there are good debts and bad debts. What should be done here is not eliminating debt, but spending wisely the money you borrowed to turn it to be a good debt. In addition, one must pay on time to avoid unnecessary accumulated interest rates and to retain your reputation as well.

There is truth behind debt not being needed the way we use it and not how it should be given away as well. Right now debt is not given how it should be, banks provide the governments with how much default rate they have and when they get under certain levels they actually do end up with making as much profit as they can with as little amount actually getting out of their vaults as possible.

When you move your money from one bank to another bank, do you think they actually carry that much cash from one bank to another? They just exchange ledger and that is it, which is the problem here, cash is no longer really a matter to them. Plus people are taking out loans or maxing credit card to get the latest iPhones or whatever, that is not what a debt should be about at all, it should be about getting better, and a new phone doesn't make you any better.

You mean money lend to individuals or governments borrowing money?
Anyway, I think the huge debts are not that necessary. Lots of the things I see governments or people borrow money for can be done without the borrowing atall. Unfortunately we all share in the government debt (including those who normally dislike debt or hardly borrow individually), even when we don't benefit from it.

Curious. "Smart contracts", for the the layman, is really just "automation". Is there a real need to "decentralize" it, and make it unstoppable from human intervention?

I believe the DAO was an example that it shouldn't.

I think if the money does not bear we are focusing on the rocks, gold, copper, steel, silver, and more with the old age because this is the common thing we are using at the oldest years also could be possibly the use of the trading of items.

If those are already passed away and we are on the modern age I think we are now focusing with the digital currency or more on the online payment or cardless payment which is a good thing too because it's less hassle and doesn't have any physical money related also right now we are using this online payment and I think the bitcoin will become one of the most popular coins among all thing.

Money is a manmade construct and it doesn’t exist except as an arbitrary concept. There is no such thing as a medium of exchange in nature, it has been created as a necessity to live in an organized society as a means of making cooperation easier. But as a made up construct, the idea that money created out of debt is bad is false. There’s nothing inherently bad about that. Deflationary currencies will never be the future. They’re too restrictive for a growing and well-functioning society. The money supply has to expand to accommodate a growing consumer base otherwise there is pressure on decreasing economic activity over time. There’s a reason we left the gold standard.

In terms of development to advance a company, there is no way that can be done if you do not have the capital to expand. debt is capital to make economic improvements in order to run the wheels of production by making a profit and being able to pay debts. there's nothing wrong with getting into debt for good and it's used to being done and it's not a strange thing in the economy.

Yes, this is my point. “Capital” is a manmade construct as well. It’s just another word for stored value. Value/money is made up. It’s a consequence of man’s ability and need to plan for the future. Things have value because we anticipate needing them in the future. Capital is just things we’ve acquired of value. But the value is represented in dollars so we can all trade our valuable things in the same medium. But there would be no reason for me to give you my capital if I was not expecting something back for it. That’s the essence of debt. I give you capital, you use it to start a business and create more value INT he World, then you pay back my capital with interest from the proceeds of the new value you created. There’s nothing wrong or bad about this.

The way De-Fi is working on all of these platforms is that you stake or lock your tokens in their contracts on the ethereum blockchain. The contract then allows borrowers to take loans and pay interest on it. The value of the liquidity that lenders provide to contract is balanced automatically based on data obtained from exchanges. Traders who will jump at any arbitrage opportunities ensure that the "pegs" are maintained.

In a way, this does provide a kind of bank on the blockchain into which you can deposit money and from which you can borrow money. It is decentralized so you aren't actually trusting anybody except the robustness of the code itself. The problem is that even for a simple implementation, the transaction costs and time becomes too steep for any PoW chain (Like ETH in this case). If instead PoS is used, it becomes a whole new question of whether it is decentralized anymore. What really happens in practice is that any small player is driven out simply on the basis of transaction fees. It ends up as nothing but a place for price manipulation and arbitrage milking for whales and traders who are expert at this sort of thing.

To answer your question, yes, there is a need to decentralize. But, there isn't yet any way to do it without these other pitfalls which make the whole system pointless.

the impact of someone who will commit debt is likely to be ready to accept the form of the risk but with the confidence to be able to achieve successful people this method is usually by setting up a business to try to earn income every day.

Debt based economy is not how you create money, we did used gold standard for the longest time and that was fine, there was no problem with it until we decided not to and suddenly world owns tens of trillions of dollars in debt, how is that better?

New money is not even needed to be printed, if you see rich getting so rich that they have all the money and hundreds of millions of people are too poor because all the money is at the rich, that means you just need to tax the rich a lot higher, and I mean A LOT higher and give that money to small business' and people, that way you will not be required to watch rich people destroying poor people. Sure stock market could crash and go down for a while until they realize they can't own all the money but that will be readjusted eventually.

Unfortunately there is not enough Gold out there to insure all the money in the world. If all currencies would be based on Gold again the gold price would dictate any movement in the currencies. Interest rates in countries would not be so important anymore and a country could not just print money to support their own economy. And if only 1 country would return to the gold standard it could be exploited by other countries. We must trust now the government in their ability to pay the debt. Or we move into crypto currencies and be more independent and secure than when using Fiat.

so guys if there is no way around to get it ??
then why we complain about central banks and fed debt based economy?

then its all good:) we got no better solution!

Yes the barter system can still be run in debt or was any of us living during that time? I don't think that the debt system will go since exchange is an important as part of human life. Exchange of physical contact will still have debt playing out but exchange of the crypto space will close up debt because there are no provision for it but it opens up scam.

Corruption is really chronic in various countries. Good governance will be earned if the administrations knows how to listen to their countrymen. If having leaders who are corrupt, the people will be having to endure the effect, they are good at managing state finances which goes directly to their accounts not for the people who are under them. This pandemic showed us how incompetent our leaders are. If you are wondering when will a debt based economy will happen, it never will.

Actually no economy is born from debt. If you see the traditional tethering of currencies towards gold they weren't made from Debt but as time passes. The requirement
of economic growth (which is generally characterized by disposable liquid income in hands of people) increases, the government's cannot create this much gold/backed asset at the pace at which they want to increase this liquidity which gives rise to debt based economies. You should see some documentary regarding currencies in the past. Every currency event the ancient ones which started from precious metals started to decrease the content of precious metals in their subsequent currencies.

What if the money was not born into our economy it might sure that we are on the past or in the future transaction. In the past transactions, we are using the items, tools, equipment, and other items to trade to other people or just a payment to our debt, we are doing in old times but on that perspective, the economy doesn't know the concept of the debt. Right now if we are looking at the future the debt it is possible happen by just paying in online transactions or digital transactions also with the use of the cryptocurrency and the fiat currency.


At the first place, there is no country have a debt but they need to have an assistance to their country so they need to ask for help to other country and borrow some money by that time the country now has a debt it depends on the people and the government especially how they handle the money, if you have a bad government there is a chance that they will keep the money and release a small amount just for the community but if you have a good government there is a chance you will lessen your debt and payback immediately to avoid increase the number of debt.

The creators and controllers of the world economic system have indeed made many countries and individuals trapped in debt because after all, banks and debt with interest are the means of extracting abundant wealth to the owners of money without having to work. Debt with interest has become a habit for the world from the individual to the state level and is considered the fastest solution to all economic problems.

Debt causes a person to buy what is not needed and the country builds up against its means. The habit of consuming today using the money that is obtained tomorrow is a problem, especially if there is an additional nominal that must be paid, as well as the state, government policies that rely on foreign direct investment have many problems, even the debt has only been paid by our generation of grandchildren, not to mention the problem loss on foreign exchange or if there is a budget deficit and trade balance deficit.

Countries that develop economies based on debt are not bad, but it is bad that they fall into debt and spend money on debt uncontrollably.
Many countries fell into seven debt. They develop unnecessary projects and are tied with some detrimental terms. When they cannot control their debts, they will have to sacrifice some of the country's interests, such as repaying the debt with raw resources, accepting land lease for many years.
There are also a few countries that are wise in borrowing and helping to thrive in the country's economic development.
Debt is not bad, but bad debt is bad.

It must be admitted that nowadays we need debt to advance the economy, almost all countries have debts. Actually it doesn't matter
if the country has debt, which is the problem of countries that have bad governance, with a lot of corruption, this is what makes the state
debt even bigger. Therefore it is the people's duty to choose good leaders, in order to manage state finances properly, so that the state
debt does not continue to grow.

Debt-Based Economy Crypto-currency is a digital-only currency that holds the best of both worlds. There are no physical restrictions on restricting its use or imposing certain physical processes, such as mining, but there is no need to be debt-based. One of the side benefits of the forms we have created to create news is that they are decentralized to allow people to perform the entire transaction process, but perhaps the biggest advantage is usually referred to as the negative. Not in favor of consumers.

The most elegant and simple solution is the need to provide 100% of the money supply with something "solid". The gold standard was a pretty cool system, but they abandoned it because they thought it would be better. And in the end - in the historical perspective-it becomes clear that there was no sense in this, because again, what difference does it make how much a bottle of milk cost in the 50s and today, if in percentage terms little has changed.

I believe that for the state currencies, for a globally recognized currency and for reserves, 100% hard collateral must be used. This will save you a lot of problems.
Loans in this system do not go anywhere.

Every country has its own debt even the strongest one so i can’t imagine without debt at all, this can only mean that any country can print fiat currency at no ceiling volume and that’s a good way for them not to borrow money which consist of economy effect. Many says gold is a good alternative but those are just theories since we all know fiat money is a necessity now, if there’s no debt then for sure other terms will be used.

Majority of countries globally are laden with debt even some of the world powers are not left out they also run their economies on debt some countries obtain loans to fill their budget deficits however how those loans are being managed is questionable in some of those countries due to high level of corruption.
The paramount objective of some of those debt laden countries is the well being of their citizens if there is the need to run the economy on dept provided that whatever hash conditions their people passing through just like the present pandemic if obtaining a loan will cushion some of the effects or problems thus plunging their economy into debt its all well and good.

The trouble why it works is the fact that everyone has debt and it normalized the situation right now, I do not really see it as a normal thing honestly, just because everyone has debt that doesn't mean it should be normal and a regular way to grow the economy. Obviously it doesn't create that much of a trouble because of this reason, however it should be a bigger deal of a problem, same goes with everything that is bad, if everyone is drinking alcohol and dying of liver failure, would you do it as well? Makes no sense to do something bad because everyone else does it too.

Debt economy should be somehow get lower and lower and eventually not have any debt at all, if we continue down this path eventually this debt will not be paid fully and no idea how horrible things will get by that point.

I don’t know why people keeps on complaining and talking about this. And from what I have noticed, the people who are always talking about the current economy being based on debt are people who thinks that one day the fiat we are using is going to be replaced by the Bitcoin they are seeing now, which is not possible.

There are good and bad sides to everything ,and it all happens for a purpose. Unless we are planning to go back to currencies being backed by gold, which to me, wouldn’t be a really good idea since the gold has a supply and demand that is volatile. Maybe they should do proper research before saying whatever.

People complain about this debt/loan based economy can lead to a huge collapse, its not like a insignificant downside to it - it is a scary possibility.
And thats why some people really want to rely on crypto and bitcoin in particular, and I tend to agree with you so I don't see bitcoin completely replace fiat in the future.

sorry but I really don't want the world to have no debt. Money should be flowing evenly and usefully, especially for potential startups.
If you think that letting people spend a certain amount of money together, I bet the world will go back forever. Because it has no motivation for people to strive, then there will be a lazy generation.
So for us to have a world of variety and color, we need debt. Potential startups need it to grow large chunks of different services to make this society better. Do you agree with this view? Hope it will help you think more positively. :D