Bitcoin Forum

so how about taxes you have to pay from btc ?

and is buying goods and items with btc is to way to cash out your crypto tax free?

Depends on the country/legal area.

In places like Europe and probably Asia, bitcoin is treated like currency so you can't just not pay tax on what you buy for not using fiat. For countries like America I'm not sure if sales tax can still be added on but I'd imagine it probably would be argued it could still be paid (especially if someone coverts those funds to cash at some point).

You pay transaction fees in btc. Whyd you want taxes on top of that? I'd just love to ltc or eth if that happens...

Hello

In some countries this might be the case, the cryptocurrencies aren't taxed there but in most of the countries you do have to do KYC connected to your wallet , which inturns gives your information to the government very easily. Therefore if you would try to invade tax by P2P buying, you might have to go to the court to show where you got all the money from and then pay fine.

At the same time in many countries, they have system of GST , which takes around 5-10% of the price irrespective of how you decide to buy it.

Therefore you would have to check with what you are dealing with.

Laws are different in different places and I do believe you have to do a thorough research on this topic then decide to buy something with BTC.

But if you have BTC in cold storage since a very long time and therefore it's Virgin of might have no track history, then you can very easily make transactions with the other person, but registering the thing would be difficult in your name.

1. Country
2. Laws
3. Registration
4. History of the coins

There are a lot of things that you have to keep into account.

but there is ways to avoid taxes right?  when you need to pay taxes in usa you send coins to europe or uk and taking out with binance debit card or asking someone in europe or uk will take out for you that could be the solution right?

off course if some ways to avoid paying taxes will be more expnsive then actually paying taxes then sure its not so good idea
Second option you buy car or other items or goods maybe some expensive weins or champagnes....

right?

You are paying the tax when you are buying the goods itself so don't feel too smart, maybe you can cashout by buying something on the blackmarket but apart from this you are going to pay taxes in someways even if your country doesn't have separate tax system for cryptos yet.

However, in Russia, for example, the government is trying to control and tax everything related to cryptocurrency, and is also putting more and more restrictions.

there is need of the system what selling goods and items what i know the expenses and donations are tax free thats why the company CEO-s buys a expensive things like art or some luxury things once you earn a lot you need to pay out also alot many of them instead of giving away buying just goods and items now when it comes to the crypto traders i think they can use the same methods.......that i think just:)

in russia the people who deal with cryptocurreny should do the money transactions out of russia in russia they should only hold crypto in their wallets lol

In our country, there's already a tax on buying goods, and we call it Value-Added Tax. From the principal amount, it's been added every time you purchase. That's why no person is an exception whether they don't want to pay taxes, they are still going to pay it every single item that they buy. But it's unclear about bitcoin being taxable, our government is crypto-friendly but regards to taxation, what I've read from others it will be categorized as income tax.

As far as my country is concerned, we have an archaic tax system here which does not have effective mechanisms to impose taxes on Bitcoin. Not just Bitcoin actually, but it is a different story to discuss about it.

My point is that the tax bureau here does not and cannot monitor income from Bitcoin. So everyone involved in Bitcoin could actually get away from paying taxes. It would, however, be a different case when you shop or spend your Bitcoin in stores and other business establishments, whether online or not, which are registered. The products and services that you are paying for with your Bitcoin have already included in the prices tax obligations.

Worldwide Cryptocurrency Regulation - Complete Guide 2020.
https://3commas.io/blog/cryptocurrency-taxes-guide (https://3commas.io/blog/cryptocurrency-taxes-guide)

This is a complete guide to taxes on Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies around the world that is worth knowing if you want to invest Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in those countries.
The study is complete, ranging from taxes for individuals and institutions of the countries that apply it to countries free of taxes on Bitcoin.

In my country, Indonesia has imposed a tax on bitcoin transactions for every sale transaction of bitcoin, altcoin and tokens at crypto exchange companies operating in Indonesia. the amount of tax set is 0.01%.

But in Indonesia, cryptocurrency regulation is only for trading commodities and is not allowed as a currency for buying and selling.

Transactions carried out outside of registered exchanges are still unclear about the taxes imposed, P2P transactions can be sure to be tax-free because there is no checking of crypto asset wealth.

For me there would always be a tax even in crypto we just name it as transaction fee but I also see it as tax.
So even if you would see it as a cash out option when you are buying goods or items with your BTC as long as you would have to pay for the transaction fee I think you should also consider it as tax.

It depends on how your government sees bitcoin (as an asset or a currency) and your intention. You will have to pay either income tax or capital gains, but you WILL have to pay the taxes. If your transactions are large, a visit from the "taxman" is inevitable.
Like, I said, depends on your country. If you are buying goods and items with BTC, highly likely you will still me taxed. The country might see your purchase as if you converted your bitcoin to cash and then bought your items. Though this won't be a huge issue for smaller amounts, but if you do it for larger amount of regular interval, the government might think you are trying to evade taxes.

Its still easy to avoid paying taxes from btc in 2020. A lot fo p2p exchanges, who redy to sell you cash

In my country, seen from the flow of additional economic capacity to taxpayers, income can be grouped into:
- income from work in an employment relationship and independent employment such as salary, honorarium, income from professional practice, and so on;
- income from business and activities;
- income from capital, in the form of movable or immovable property, such as interest, dividends, royalties, rents and profits from the sale of assets or rights that are not used for business; and
- other income, such as debt relief and gifts.

Tax officials do not care in what form the additional economic capability, in the form of gold, fiat, cryptocurrency, property, motorized vehicles or other types, taxpayers must report it in the tax return and are subject to tax. So it depends on our decision, whether we will report additional income obtained from bitcoin or just avoid it.

VAT is a tax that many countries have and it is impossible to avoid it no matter how it is paid - so every BTC transaction is taxed in some way in the sense that sellers usually show the price of products and services in fiat, and the amount in cryptocurrency we see only on the payment processor. What can be problematic is that the tax office can get information about people who pay with BTC, and ask them to prove the origin of crypto assets and pay taxes - because if they do not recognize BTC as a currency, then such a purchase is considered as a sale and is subject to income tax.

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There are always ways, just as you say the question is how much they pay off. If you use a decentralized crypto exchange and do not leave your data anywhere, you are pretty sure that the tax service will not knock on your door. If you buy a BTC directly from your friend for cash, and after a while you sell the same BTC to someone for cash - will you go to pay taxes?

On the other hand, if you are trading on a crypto exchange on which you have made KYC and you are using your bank account for withdrawal, it is logical that you will pay taxes if you want to sleep peacefully.

As far as I know so far, in my country the crypto tax is currently 12%.
There are also services and products that can be paid for with cryptocurrencies and as far as I understand the tax on these transactions is paid by the service provider or seller.
Sellers have to convert the amount of cryptocurrency into local currency at the end of the day, as far as I understood.

Yes, someone who's paying taxes in bitcoin can easily be traced as the person will be attached to that txid. It would be better to pay taxes for bitcoin through declaring it as an income tax which will be paid in fiat and not with bitcoin. I don't know the process in other countries but this is possible if someone is concern with that tracing. But if it goes to that point, you can tell that you're a trader or someone from the early years who have bought it.

The amount of tax you need to pay depends on your local jurisdiction and your local government and how they decided to tax crypto people. This is why some people where their local government tax them on their crypto travel to other countries to withdraw their crypto in a tax-free manner.

A news outlet article covers 8 of these countries, and you can read it here (https://news.bitcoin.com/eight-countries-that-dont-tax-your-bitcoin-gains/).

The alternative to travelling to other countries as stated above is to cash out via purchases, much like you suggested above. There are many websites which now allow you pay with crypto, and you can buy a wide variety of good and services.
So this could be another option. And one of these places is Bitrefill (https://www.bitrefill.com/?hl=en) where you can purchase gift cards with your BTC.

Hope this helps.

Here in our place buying products using bitcoin is not free of tax because the tax is already added to the item which being bought using bitcoin. Aside from that you have also to pay the transaction fee of bitcoin from bitcoin miners confirming the transaction.

It sounds like you spend twice from having tax and at the same time from the transaction fee because your doing from decentralized to centralized system. If you will going to use bitcoin to a decentralized system like monet transfer from around the world then that would be great because it will only take few amounts deducted as transaction fee compared to the centralized service wheb making transaction with them.

Taxes are different for each country, i could explain how it works for my country but maybe is a different way in yours... now i'm in México and when we make a depo to the exchange  then we got a ticket where the exchange charge 16% for taxes, after that if we made a withdraw from the exchange to our wallet, we should only report the income we get, i know is a little complex to understand that's why i will go for an example:

If you make a depo of $1,000 to the exchange, then buy bitcoin, then the price goes up and then you withdraw $1,100... In that scenario, you have to report the $100 income, and pay taxes over that amount. Not over the full withdraw. That's how it works at least in my country.

Each country has its own rules regarding taxes, so there are several countries that do not impose taxes on BItcoin.
So trading using Bitcoin does not need to pay taxes, but usually countries that exempt taxes on Bitcoin, only accept
Bitcoin as a digital asset only. So you can't use Bitcoin to buy goods.

So far, I do not pay for taxes. Well yeah, actually there is no regulation about taxes in cryptocurrency yet.

However, it may be different in each country, depending on the regulation and law from the country itself. I can't say that there is no tax for BTC because some countries may apply taxes for crypto.
Some countries are likely: Singapore, Portugal, Malta, Switzerland, and others. Most of them are taxed for business taxation of crypto.
Actually, taxation for crypto so far is still debatable and it may role complicated regulation.

Here in our country, where even online sellers are planned to pay taxes as well lmao, bitcoin investors like us are still safe :D. There is no strict law/rule (at least for now) imposed by the government with regards to regulation of bitcoin and any other crypto. Thus we are moving freely and take advantage of it until now. In my 3 years of experience, I haven't spend a single cent on paying taxes and I hope the same system will continue forever.

Ps: I did not consider VAT on every goods/services because I think it was a different story.

In my opinion it depends on which country you are from, because in some countries there are already legal and some are still illegal, so in every state regulation it is very different, not all Btc countries are taxed for converting Btc to real currency or buying goods  with Btc.

I don't pay any taxes with bitcoins.
I usually buy product/items from online stores Its all depends on the area where bitcoins is accepting and using legally.
In my region we don't need to pay tax until we use the fiat our government is supporting the cryptocurrency and they build some ATMs too, however, we're just paying a small transaction fee from bitcoins.

Although, taxation on bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies is highly subjective depending upon the country you live in but this thread has few parts having high quality resources on bitcoin taxation which is common for almost all the countries: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5275952.0. It will clear many of your doubts.

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Nope! Don't even think about it that way. It is same as assuming that depositing bitcoin on an exchange and withdrawing it to a different bitcoin address will have same effect as of mixing coins with Bitcoin Mixer.

There is high chance that you will left behind digital trails while purchasing goods/services with crypto online even if you tried to maintain complete anonymity using fake names, etc. Cryptocurrencies aren't as anonymous as people think it is. I see people regularly getting caught for evading taxes by paying for goods in hard cash. Now imagine, if it is possible for agencies to track tax evasion with something as anonymous as physical cash, won't they caught you with bitcoin especially when well-detailed record of every bitcoin transaction is available on blockchain?

what if many people will use one bitcoin wallet and same exchnager as there is bitcoin trading teams who use same things like every team member use binance same account becouse they hold mutual funds there as many people trade crypto as a team.

but it all depends on country and juridcal locatiion

The items that awe are going to buy in my country already have added tax so when there is transaction that need sto pay the tax is not noticeable as it is already in it's tag price. Same with if we're going to tax biycoin besides tax from transactions like paying bills and other trading or exchange process it will simply depend on your countries rule. Tax is always there but somehow they manage not to make it too noticeable by the tax payer.

Taxation on bitcoin is purely based on the income generated out of it. No countries have developed a clear framework on the taxation of bitcoin, because single bitcoin can be valued $10k as well as $20k depending on the market.

Governments always try to make an earning out of taxation irrespective of the market and the way of earning. Maybe services bought in exchange for bitcoin can skip the taxation as it is between the client and the service provider. When product is bought/sold it'll be taxed, because on production itself it'll be taxed.

The world is gradually moving into technology, and is a just a matter of time for government to adopt the traditional way or implications into the system. Therefore bitcoin is an digital assets that can be convert to any local currency in the world.

Just sales tax. No income tax because crypto is not money and not given to us by the government so they have business telling us how to use it. It's that simple. If the government has a problem with it then they should open up their own crypto wallets but they won't because then we can trace our tax money and reveal the corruption.

Yeah and the thing that I have observed in using Bitcoin as payment here in my country is that, it only requires fee when cashing-in and cashing-out. Paying/buying goods and services are smooth without any fee except for the loan that collect $.31 every transaction. Also transferring funds into banks made it more easier and of course free of charge here in my country. I am happy to use Bitcoin because of convenience most specifically this pandemic.

Tax evasion. Now I am tracking you.
Just kidding.  ;D

For every item, there is always a tax that is coupled with it.
You cannot evade it even if you want to.
Put it this way, you buy MnM's. The chocolate inside is the product and the coating is the tax.  ;D
I consider every purchase now is applied with tax already.

An interesting idea but what if you exchange that bitcoin into the local currency and buy a house, for example? Or a ship?
I think that a certain compromise with the authorities is needed and that we need special rules for crypo.
In my country, if you can prove that you kept crypto funds in your wallet for at least 2 years and did not spend it, you are exempt from paying taxes and that is a good law.

But converting Bitcoin into fiat in other part of the world is not that easy,and while the world is getting into technology yet governments are getting stricter to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies.
Bitcoin is a Money because we can use this as purchasing materials from product and services though limited chances.
but you are correct Sales tax is much even better to apply and not income taxes.

Such thing is only possible in case of centralised services such as Exchanges and Custodial wallets. But instead of giving you anonymity advantage, it will result in entirely opposite situation. For using such services, you have to do KYC. In other words, you are giving away your credentials which will make you more prone losing anonymity.

Certainly those things must be considered to better know if using Bitcoin is in need to be fined with taxation or not. There are really certain key points that are not the same on every country so the answer will really be dependent or varies upon the place where you are resided to better know if taxation is also applied on buying goods and services using Bitcoin. For countries where they can directly use Bitcoin as payment option maybe taxation is applied and that is duly dependent on the government if they would be putting such law for their country. Well actually even using fiat or Bitcoin, all things like goods and services have already their VAT (Value Added Tax) top up on those things that we purchase.

In my country which bitcoin is just newly legalized in the country which the government made taxes free for every citizens in the country. Since covid-19 came up our government  is trying to Impose double tax to every business man in the country.
But I don't think it will work for my country for bitcoin users to pay taxes for their purchase because bitcoin newly legalized in the country. The government will still consider that the population of bitcoin users is not too popular to  pay taxes for bitcoin items in the country.

If you're paying taxes, it means you're getting traced by the government, and they're following you. I never heard of bitcoin's customers covering charges.
Bitcoin is unstable and decentralized, which plainly means it's unpredictable and nobody can trace or track or take it. I never pay any charges/taxes in my career.
I don't know about other countries/regions. But in my nation, there are no taxes applied on bitcoin or in any cryptocurrencies.

Btc is not a companies or manual businesses that pay taxes, see looking btc and its regulations I don't think it's necessary to pay taxes in cryptocurrency in general because it's decentralized currency not centralized.




 
This particular text is complicated because it's not obvious that purchasing or buying goods with Bitcoin really means that we are tax free in Bitcoin, because I have no seem atoms of tax in Bitcoin except charge's during Bitcoin transaction that's equivalent for normal banking  fees during some transaction.

Have you ever bought anything using bitcoin? You are going to pay taxes for the goods no matter how you are paying but this way you can reduce the tax which will be higher if you are reporting the crypto income as income tax but if you are a tax payer then you also should report the source of income and every expensive purchases also will be traced if you are doing it more often and there will be a question arise how you are paying them when there is no record for it on your bank.

the goods can be gift from others what you mean paying taxes from goods? 
if i pay for goods with crypto i get goods where do i have to show how did i payed for goods???

In 2019, we as crypto users in Indonesia are starting to prepare to accept new regulations regarding crypto taxes that we must pay to the government. Since the government has legalized crypto trading in the futures market, they will also tax crypto businesses (exchange). I'm not sure how much tax we have to pay the government for every sale and purchase transaction we make on an exchange operating in Indonesia. The idea is that the government will set a 0.01% tax on each transaction. We don't pay taxes directly to the government, but the exchange takes care of this. If it is true that tax regulation have been enforced on every stock exchange operating in Indonesia, then we have paid indirectly during the buying and selling transaction on the exchange.

I haven't paid the tax when using bitcoin so far, agree with almost user above me who says that is depend on the country regulation. You have to know first your country regulation against bitcoin and crypto currency as a whole and how they see crypto currency. Like in my country, they only accept bitcoin as mean of investment and they include it to comodity. But until now, I don't know their way to charge the fee for someone who use it, maybe they charge to the exchange that have legalized by the government and we spend money for the tax when we cash out to our money fiat.

cashing out means to withdraw , you dont cashout when you buy goods  . cashing out in crypto do have a fee and do have a tax depending on the place or on the provider that you use , same with buying goods but i believe that there is more tax paid when buying  thats why i never buy using a crypto but what im doing is i cashout first then purchase using the regular currency  . we need to be wise to save from the expense of tax , if you can cash out at bigger amount and from a designated time why not ? than cashing out every day and paying more tax .

Fortunately, even though my country was crypto-friendly our government still not impose any regulations upon using it. Hence, I am not paying any taxes for using it and I think that is a good thing for me.
I only pay taxes if I converted it into fiat and buy some stuff. I also wonder how our government cannot think of something to get benefit out from it.

What goods you are talking about? Imagine you are buying an expensive watch or a car or something which needs your identity to get the invoice so you are linking that tax to your name.Even if you are buying something like groceries or foods, you are paying for it which included all the taxes and the manufacturing cost so you are paying the final price.

but you can online goods with cryptocurrency right?

I don't understand at all what you mean. If you officially get salary in Bitcoin, then you have to pay taxes and buying goods have nothing to do with it. Also, if you live in a country where income from other countries doesn't get tax, then you can feel free. In any way, there is no need to be that official in everything. You got bitcoin, how will someone come with you and ask, why don't you pay taxes? I mean if you are just an individual person. But if you are a company or really get salary in bitcoin, then you have to pay taxes. In some countries this tax subject is very complex but in some - you have to pay % of bitcoin converted into USD from the moment you received it.