Bitcoin Forum

as you know PayPal lets you buy btc. So I will track my BTC accumulation on my PayPal account for the next 15 months.

I will delete every post that says "no keys not your money."

 I know that.

https://i.imgur.com/IF5xrM4.png

https://i.imgur.com/toHreem.png

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Please remember not your keys not your coins



MY account is an old established PayPal account.

I have a cash balance in it.

I deposited cash into the account from retailmenot

I put in $51.32 usd in rebate money from mining and other purchases on the internet.

I purchased $20.00 usd  worth of BTC on the 21st of Oct.

I will get more rebates from retailmenot and I will buy more BTC with those rebates.

I will do this until Dec. 31, 2021 {God willing}  Or universe willing for those that choose to not believe  god.

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Remember this not your keys not your coins






I should get more rebates today from retailmenot

 I will move rebates to PayPal and buy $20 worth of BTC I will post an update soon.

https://i.imgur.com/R3o8Cqs.png

https://i.imgur.com/Ja0EvFe.png

https://i.imgur.com/KSlgCUb.png

I'll sub up to this and follow to see what happens..

It seems everyone these days have these new Facebook Pay apps and Venmo and stuff, with PayPal kinda being left behind for transactions between friends/acquaintances.. Maybe this is PayPal attempting too keep up with the Joneses? 

I have always heard of PayPal to be the main target for Bitcoin to put out of business, and PP has always had terrible TOS clauses against BTC and cryptocurrencies..
It seems a bit ironic/hypocritical for them to add BTC now, but what do you expect?

How long do you think before PP starts adding a bunch of inferior coins? Ya think Ver is on the phone with them nonstop right now trying to get his scamcoin added? And SV? They could even add ETH soon, but I doubt coins like XMR..

They are selling

BTC
ETH
LTC
BCH

I personally only want to deal with BTC on the paypal.

Not your keys...

j/k

So what exactly can you do with those bitcoins except sell them back to PayPal at some point? You can't move them, right?

I guess if you already KYCed with PayPal, which many have, then it kinda makes some sort of sense but it seems like a very niche thing.

 ::) oh..
bch.. ugh..


It's a grand scheme for PP/banks to eventually own ALL of the BTCs and keep them all locked up in 3rd party holdings ;)
No delivery, paper BTCs for the plebs only..

Surely may cause a bunch of buying-up of Bitcoins in any case.. It could hardly cause more sell-pressure.. If it is causing this pump, I don't know, but it seems so..

May I ask what is the purpose of this "experiment"?
It's a very cool thing that PayPal accepts cryptocurrencies, but why did you choose this wallet to collect Bitcoin? Do you want to prove something by this? I am asking really seriously, because somehow I do not see any greater sense in what you do, of course I do not see also anything wrong with it.

This is a good question. I have to ponder upon the answer.

i for one am glad youre documenting it.

For all those saying that this will "increase btc adoption" and "grandmas will buy btc on PayPal", I'm glad you are documenting this.

You are actually highlighting and showing how useless this extra step is, versus just buying stuff through PayPal with your CC or bank account directly.  :P

I'm almost wondering if PayPal is even buying any crypto behind the scenes at all. It could all just be a database ledger entry into their cash reserves balance sheet.

They must be buying at least some Bitcoin-related instrument otherwise they can bankrupt themselves in a fortnight if Bitcoin moves like it often does.

Some reason for documenting are:

1) historical reference point.
2) google searches for PayPal and BTC may land here.
3) bing searches may land here

Here are results for bing search of PayPal and BTC page 8
95-102 of 25,100,000 results


Bitcoin prices surge after Paypal jumps into the ...
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/investing/paypal-bitcoin-cryptocurrencies/index.html
1 day ago · PayPal says its new service will give customers the ability to hold and exchange Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash and Litecoin cryptocurrencies …

PayPal will start letting users buy and sell bitcoin ...
https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/22/paypal-will-start-letting-users-buy-and-sell-bitcoin...
11 hours ago · Bitcoin buying and selling will now be available through Paypal to US customers for the first time (Photo by Omar Marques / SOPA Images/Sipa USA) PayPal joined the cryptocurrency market this week ...

First Mover: PayPal Rushes In and Bitcoin Breaches $12K ...
https://www.coindesk.com/first-mover-paypal-bitcoin-12k-usdc-tether
1 day ago · First Mover: PayPal Rushes In and Bitcoin Breaches $12K, While USDC Gains on Tether Bitcoin blew past $12,000 to its highest price in two months, bringing into view the prospect of a fresh 2020 high.

Bitcoin surges past US$13,000 after PayPal embrace ...
https://www.straitstimes.com/business/banking/bitcoin-surges-past-us13000-after-paypal...
NEW YORK (BLOOMBERG) - Bitcoin surged past US$13,000 (S$17,620) for the first time since July 2019 after PayPal Holdings announced it will allow customers to …

Paypal to Bitcoin: The Payments Giant Steps Into ...
https://dailycoin.com/paypal-to-bitcoin
PayPal to Bitcoin: the online payments giant confirmed, it is entering the cryptocurrency market and launching cryptocurrency services.

PayPal to open up network to cryptocurrencies | Reuters
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-paypal-cryptocurrency-idUSKBN2761L6
1 day ago · PayPal’s shares were up 4% at 1418 GMT, set for their best day in a month. Bitcoin BTC=BTSP hit its highest since July 2019 on the news. It …

PayPal Announces Cryptocurrency Service With Support For ...
https://beebom.com/paypal-announces-cryptocurrency-service-with-support-for-bitcoin-e...
14 hours ago · PayPal has become the latest traditional online payments platform to have embraced cryptocurrencies. The company, on Wednesday, announced a new service that will enable customers to buy, sell and hold bitcoin and other digital currencies in its online wallets. The service, which has just started ...

Tether, And Not PayPal, Boosted Bitcoin BTC Price Above ...
https://bitrss.com/news/187850/tether-and-not-paypal-boosted-bitcoin-btc-price-above...
2 hours ago · It nearly 24 hours that payments giant PayPal announced the launch of its crypto trading services on Wednesday, October 21. Later on the day, the Bitcoin price surged past $13,000 as the bulls raged-in. Many attribute this BTC price surge to the PayPal news. However, there was a silent player possibly behind the Bitcoin price rise.


Now I used bing for a reason the reason is it is smaller then google and there were 25,100,000 hits on the search

those are big time numbers and a path to larger usage of BTC

No keys /P

In before exit scam. ;)

Should be fun to see if they start running their own scam tokens next.

Look do I think anyone should have 25%-100% of their BTC on PayPal alone .

Hell no.

But a few bucks worth? yes.

Based on my past rebates earned on retailmenot.com. I will end up  buying 400 to 500 usd worth of btc from Oct 2020 to Dec 2021.

I earn 30-50 a month in rebates on retailmenot earned  mostly from buying pc/mining gear.

I normally transfer the rebates to the PayPal account. So nothing new there.
This account has been vested KYC'd yada yada yada for over 10 years.
Since I know I am putting in well under 1k usd spread out over 15 months I don't care about tax consequences  as I won't be selling the coins. (unless they jump 50-100x)

Should be fun to watch this.

If you could send these PP Bitcoins to other users, it would have made this whole thing much better, because the next day we would have people exchanging PP Bitcoin <-> real Bitcoin, which overall means more liquidity to the Bitcoin ecosystem. At the current state PayPal just acts as a broker, where you can get exposure to crypto investment and nothing more.

Yup, just ribbing yah. ;)

I have zero trust for PP but it does ad legitamasy to BTC with those normies and that's always a good thing. But I do expect they will morph into a fractional reserve as soon as they think they can get away with it.

I'm sure they will add more coins in the future or developers of other top coins will request their coin to be added, on that 4 coins alone they will rake millions of profit because many are going to buy more of these coins, and sell their coins as well I'm excited on this features and will be the one to try it wen then finally added it.

They are the first one to be granted permission of this kind of operation

I actually didn't realize this went live already, I assumed it would go live in a couple of weeks. Haven't used Paypal in years and can't even find my password so didn't bother to look if I had the option to purchase BTC on Paypal.

According to their terms, it says you can't deposit or withdraw or transfer the crypto. So if you buy BTC on Paypal, what can you do with it exactly besides sell it back for US dollars sometime in the future. This is the part that I am confused. This seems like a good way to get people to invest in Bitcoin but will they ever be able to spend it?

Most likely they obviously need to hedge their exposure so if Philipma1957 bought $40 worth of BTC, they had to buy that BTC from somewhere.

Afaik it works for US customers only (for now) and for buy only (for now).
I am sure that a company like PayPal cannot afford to leave its customers having unspendable coins forever. From what I've read the plan is to allow selling too at the start of next year.
But no, they never mentioned actual Bitcoin withdrawal.



See? That's why the price grew this big. There's a new whale in town  ;D

It's a great experiment. And it has to exist here on Bitcointalk because some non-bitcoiners may come and read, just because it's the main Bitcoin forum and also search engines may redirect here.
After the years long "Bitcoin is scam" and "Bitcoin is for drug dealers" narrative, PayPal is a very good help for us. Many people that were scared of Bitcoin now can buy (or at least have the illusion they've bought Bitcoin, not IOU tied to Bitcoin price). It will grow their confidence the coin is for real and it's good.

As we know PayPal has a chargeback issue. Since you bought BTC via PayPal account, I am a little curious to know if there is still a chargeback (dispute) option for crypto when you are using crypto PayPal to PayPal. PayPal also has not allowed us to create account from my country. So I can't read many details. I had opened an account when I was abroad, but unable to do KYC due to country restrictions. If chargeback exists even for the crypto off-chain transaction then I am not encouraged to hold cryptocurrency in a PayPal account.

I think they're just mainly promoting it as an investment? From what I read from their announcement that is, especially since their articles about crypto is more concentrated on the facts about the risks and benefits of investing/trading Cryptos/BTC. Also, you can "technically" buy using BTC, but according to Paypal themselves, they convert said BTC to the local currency of the merchant, so as to have 0 issues with difference in money/fees/etc. They cleared that up gladly enough, so I guess you can technically buy and sell crypto and use said crypto to buy stuff.

yeah i may park a small bit there too. maybe robinhood too. mainly to support it on their platform, hopefully it takes off to a point.

yes its "paper" bitcoin that cant leave either platform. but its a start. people see it and hopefully wiull see its upsides (and of course downsides for that matter).

this may be peoples 1st real exposure to bitcoin. cant hurt imo. and seriously until people get the idea of real wallet security, seeds etc this may be their safest exposure for now.

I am old for bitcointalk.
I am 63.
I can remember christmas clubs at a bank. You opened it dec 1 or so and put in 2 dollars a week.

you did it for 50 weeks. 100 bucks and a 5 dollar bonus.

105 back just in time to spend on christmas.

I am not saying I am going to put in 20 a week until dec 2021 but you could set a goal.
put away 10 a week for a year. then decide if you want to sell or hodl.

this is a true path to large scale adoption. So I am in.

My goal is purchase 400-500 of my retailmenot rebates over the next 15 months.

I think its good because unless you are tech savvy, you shouldn't be holding any actual crypto. Its way too easy to get scammed. Way too much malware on a typical Windows 10 computer. Some people get their crypto stolen and have no idea how. These days I am not even sure that Apple computers are safe either.

Hardware wallet is great however most people don't want to spend $100. And most of the time people buy the hardware wallet AFTER they acquire the crypto and can get it stolen before they even get it working. Sure there is cold storage on Electrum but the learning curve for that is pretty steep. So keeping it on Paypal is pretty safe in my opinion. Why would someone hack someone's account if they can't withdraw the BTC? They wouldn't.

Are you able to see the txid of your bitcoins?

I hope so, otherwise I  have the feeling that paypal does add imaginary bitcoins to your account.

i remember those ;)

just bought bitcoin with robinhood (not to hijack, its just the time frame is the same as yours.. just a couple days ago). what a ULA you need to read through. not insured, might be hacked with no recourse, no forks. but grandma can add 10 bucks a week as you say. both seem to support it.

now my recurring buys may be at a regulated exchange but i think ill play this game too.

EDIT not affiliated with robinhood in any way

Now I want to show a few reasons why I like this.

block

653990 https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/00000000000000000005210c76d26372c4f24ddb5e42774ca61392dc8f0582ca.  1.50 in fees


653989 https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/00000000000000000006b6b35de0f63a5e2e9e97d2f79d2f91e85f7274c7667f    1.54 in fees

653988 https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/000000000000000000048f9d4c1107bfcc5e5d4221b80675c97cf2c94a71604f    1.62 in fees

653987 https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/000000000000000000097c34c6c6c7683689109696c86e0c8edd52099f6be9c5  1.02 in fees

653986 https://www.blockchain.com/btc/block/00000000000000000001d9a790b9055b636c9bf87dc142e37903def251fe3ac9  0.797 in fees



See what is happening movement of coins  = huge fees

I did a bing search yesterday

"PayPal and BTC".   25,100,000. hits

today 36,800,000 hits




93-106 Of 37,400,000 Results Any time ------------------ actually more in under 2 minutes time to set up post!!
Bitcoin prices surge after Paypal jumps into the ...

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/21/investing/paypal-bitcoin-cryptocurrencies/index.html
2 days ago · PayPal is launching its own cryptocurrency service, allowing people to buy, hold and sell digital currency on its site and applications.
PayPal allows Bitcoin and crypto spending - BBC News

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54630283
2 days ago · PayPal has entered the cryptocurrency market, announcing that its customers will be able to buy and sell Bitcoin and other virtual currencies using their PayPal accounts.
PayPal Finally Welcomes Cryptocurrencies, Including ...

https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2020/10/21/paypal-finally-welcomes-crypto...
2 days ago · PayPal will support four different cryptocurrencies — bitcoin, ethereum, litecoin and bitcoin cash — together with fintech startup Paxos.
PayPal to Enable Bitcoin and Crypto Purchasing and Selling

https://cryptopotato.com/paypal-to-enable-bitcoin-and-crypto-purchasing-and-selling
2 days ago · In addition, PayPal customers will be able to spend Bitcoin to shop at over 26 million vendors already included in its network starting early 2021, Reuters reports. The company has stated that they are “working with central banks and thinking of all forms of digital currencies and PayPal can play a role.”
PayPal’s Just Introduced a Bitcoin Onramp to 346 Million ...

https://www.newsbtc.com/news/bitcoin/paypals-just-introduced-a-bitcoin-onramp-to-346...
1 day ago · There’s Nearly Twice as Many PayPal Users as BTC Users. On-chain analyst Willy Woo explained that the significance of the PayPal news cannot be understated. The platform currently has nearly double the number of users that Bitcoin has. “User base: PayPal 346m+ Bitcoin 187m+. This is a big deal,” he said while pointing to the below chart ...
Bitcoin custodian BitGo on the list as PayPal explores ...

https://seekingalpha.com/news/3625295-bitcoin-custodian-bitgo-on-list-paypal-explores...
6 hours ago · PayPal's interest comes alongside its move this week allowing its customers to purchase cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin , Ether , Litecoin , and Bitcoin Cash . PayPal is up 0.8% premarket, and ...
Bitcoin extends gains after PayPal move to accept ...

https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/business/bitcoin-extends-gains-after-paypal-move...
2 days ago · LONDON: Bitcoin extended its gains on Wednesday after PayPal Holdings Inc said it will allow customers to buy, sell and hold cryptocurrencies. It was last up 3.2per cent at …
Litecoin paced BTC on PayPal's crypto news

https://blog.cfbenchmarks.com/btc-and-ltcs-peak-paypal-volume
1 day ago · BTC and LTC’s peak PayPal volumes A day ago, it was possible, even sensible not to read too much into eye-catching crypto price moves in the wake of major industry news. Bitcoin’s break above $12,000 after all, followed a third attempt in as many months, and as we noted, was not immediately backed by significant trading volumes.
'Bitcoin's No Longer Optional' — What Investors Say About ...
https://news.bitcoin.com/bitcoin-paypal-crypto-services
1 day ago · Paypal launching cryptocurrency services has given crypto investors much to think about. While many crypto users view the news as extremely bullish, some point out several areas of concern bitcoin ...
PayPal to Launch Crypto Buying and Selling Features - Decrypt

https://decrypt.co/45802/paypal-to-launch-crypto-buying-and-selling-features
2 days ago · At launch, PayPal will allow purchases of Bitcoin, Ethereum, Bitcoin Cash and Litecoin. Although users will be able to pay with cryptocurrencies at around 26 million merchants in early 2021, the resellers will still receive the funds in the form of fiat currencies such as the US Dollar, the company noted.
PayPal now letting users trade Bitcoin and Ethereum, paves ...

https://www.androidpolice.com/2020/10/21/paypal-now-letting-users-trade-bitcoin-and-e...
1 day ago · PayPal has partnered with New York-based Paxos Trust to broker trades. It has also obtained a Bitlicense from the New York Department of Financial Services which mandated some of the company's...
PayPal will allow users to buy, sell and shop using ...

https://www.rt.com/business/504150-paypal-bitcoin-cryptocurrencies-launch
2 days ago · PayPal has jumped into the cryptocurrency market and plans to allow its customers to buy, sell and hold bitcoin, ethereum and other virtual currencies using their online wallets. The new feature, which was announced on Wednesday, is expected to be implemented in 2021. At that stage, users will be ...
Bitcoin Retests 2020 High Following PayPal News, Will BTC ...

https://marketinsider.net/bitcoin-retests-2020-high-following-paypal-news-will-btc...
2 days ago · NewsBTC. Rumors broke earlier this year that PayPal would be changing its tune on cryptocurrencies and would soon be supporting Bitcoin and other assets. Today, however, Reuters reports that PayPal revealed it would indeed be offering cryptocurrency payments across the 26 million merchants on its network starting in early 2021.
Bitcoin surges to highest since July 2019 after PayPal ...

https://theprint.in/economy/bitcoin-surges-to-highest-since-july-2019-after-paypal...
1 day ago · PayPal customers can buy, sell and hold cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin, Ether, Bitcoin Cash and Litecoin from digital wallets, as well as use the virtual money to shop at the 26 million merchants on its network. Shares of PayPal jumped 5.5% to …


Related searches for Paypal and BTC
btc my account
pay btc bill online
bitcoin express
Some results have been removed
1
...
6
7
8
9
10



 I am using bing as they give me search counts.  Which keep on getting bigger and bigger.

Now as an update I purchased more. You can see I fill my PayPal account with 50.00+51.32 = 101.32 with rebates from retailmenot.com
I then used 61.32 to make 3 purchases  I have 40 usd in PayPal and 61.72 in btc a very small uptick in btc since I purchased

as I am worth 101.72 up from 101.32

https://i.imgur.com/Sa5AtWy.png

Well, they (or Paxos) need to source all the BTC from somewhere. They might be using Robinhood's model, where they act as a market maker on various exchanges. When customers buy, they buy. Even if it's all sourced OTC, it should definitely provide some net bullish pressure on the market, especially at the get go when customers have a zero balance and thus have no BTC to sell. They can only buy.


Definitely feels like a news pump. Whether that extends into a yearly breakout above the June 2019 highs remains to be seen. It's curious that BTC has diverged from stocks for the last several days. Not sure how long that's going to last.


How much are they are taking in fees? Can't tell from the screenshots.

I'm very interested to see how they develop this.

Is this the first step on a journey to much deeper and more integrated usability or are they going to attempt to 'Paypalise' Bitcoin?

History tells us very few of these operations have the vision to work to its strengths rather than trying to bend it, having it snap and twat them in the face and then slinking away in quiet disgust.

Hopefully there are enough people involved in this who've been watching past experiments closely. I'll believe it when I see it. Then again this may be exactly what most of the world actually wants. They're a bit stuck if they learn more and decide to move further though.

I am watching jimmy fallon.

but they did mention the amounts.


0.00165030btc.    was the 21.32 purchase.

0.00154773btc was the 20.00 purchase.

0.00159934btc was the 20.00 purchase.

I planned to place cash into it. But I simply didn't have a clue whether i should or not, since paypal declared they will permit client to make bitcoin transactions larger part take it fun by saying paypal freeze your accounts and take your money so now I’m seeking help this remarks if make any sense?

Every bank, credit card, etc money mover can freeze your accounts.

That includes PayPal.

Buy some btc on PayPal is just that

Note the word some BTC

not all your btc.

If you do 20, 40, 60 usd on PayPal it simply helps grease the wheels of progress.

But be sure to have other btc holdings.



At the moment I have 99 usd of coin frozen on an exchange.
I can trade it , but not withdraw it.
I will work on that problem next year.
Do I like having money/coins stuck on an exchange no. But it is only 99
I have money in paypal 40 cash 61 in coin it is not stuck as of today
I have coins and money on Coinbase it is not stuck as of today.

I have coin in wallets it is not stuck as of today.

This is simply being diverse.

No you won't because it's not a transaction on the blockchain. You are buying it from a 3rd party who bought it somehow and their transaction appeared on the blockchain but you can't see it.

They can actually put fake BTC in your account if they please however if BTC goes to $20K and everybody wants to cash out they will be on the hook for the difference. Since they aren't some scammy bucket shop Forex broker they would need to deal with regulators. So most likely they hedge their exposure somehow. Even with the futures markets.

logged into my pp account for 1st time in like 2 years...

Good news... had a shitload of points that I cashed out. (my default cc I use for all purchases that is set on auto monthly payoff)
Forgot about that, lol....   Hey now!... I'll just turn that cash into bitcoin!!

bad news....   gotta wait 2 weeks??   wtf?


https://i.imgur.com/uvNPp5m.png

I am highly active with paypal.

I guess it was why I was able to do it so easily.

Would be nice to know how many were stalled like you were.

Didn't know your time zone, so I wasn't sure what the exact BTC price was at the time and thus how much they took out. But I dug into it and apparently:


https://techcrunch.com/2020/10/21/paypal-to-let-you-buy-and-sell-cryptocurrencies-in-the-us/

So I guess there are no explicit fees right now, just those implied by the spread. The fees, when they do kick in, don't look bad compared to Coinbase, who would charge 1.49% + $2.99 on each of those purchases. But I do wonder how big the spread is.


Paxos has a state trust charter and Paypal was just granted a conditional BitLicense. I'm pretty sure (although not 100% positive) they need to fully back all digital assets.

Its similar to Robinhood, but on Paypal you can also spend your Bitcoin. These kind of centralized services are good for people who want exposure to bitcoin (and might want to use it for purchases) but don't want to deal with learning about how to store bitcoin and whatnot. I would imagine most people in the end will use centralized services with regards to Bitcoin, taking advantage of Bitcoin's gains and perhaps its use as money, but not its security and self-banking features. And that is perfectly okay. Not every needs to use Bitcoin for all its advantages, sometimes convenience beats features.

I think it is true as they are restricting people and putting them on waiting lists to buy.

Yeah , I kinda figured that.
Not having logged into my pp account in so long they gotta make sure I'm still worthy I guess.
No worries. I was pleasantly surprised at the amount of cash I had after cashing in the accumulated reward points I had completely forgotten about.
Waiting 2 weeks for some "free" bitcoin?  fine by me.
Oh wait, not my keys not my.....ahh nm.... (ask me if I give a shit.... lol. )

robinhood was the same way. couldnt initially buy paper bitcoin because of some account restriction. this is after photo id and verified email was done. however i had only been with robinhood a few days at this point. sent support a message and the restriction was gone next day.

so now i have paper bitcoin. yay for me.

If I recall it took Robinhood many many months to make trading crypto available for all the 50 states. They did it according to states at first. There was many reasons for this. One of them was incase there was some bugs, if there was a bug it would be better to find it before there was too many actual trades taking place.

Second was that during the launch there was crazy demand for crypto. So by limiting the states not everybody would buy it at once and cause supply issues. Last reason was probably the verification process. Instead of making people wait like 1.5 years to get verified like Poloniex, they did it in batches so people didn't have to wait too long. 

Most likely Paypal is taking the exact same route.

Just off the top, it seems quite clear that you should be able to gain exposure to BTC volatility by holding some or all of your paypal account value in BTC.

Let's say that historically, you have a floating paypal balance that bounces around between $200 and $5,000.  If you choose to allocate a certain percentage to BTC (whether 5%, 25%, 50%, 90% or some variating percentages that is based on other factors chosen by you), then you could potentially monitor the extent to which there might be advantages/disadvantages in holding some portion of your account value in BTC rather than dollars.

Of course, during high BTC UPpity volatility there should be greater benefits to hold larger portions of your account value in BTC rather than dollars, and opposingly, during high DOWNity BTC volatility, there should be greater benefits of holding larger portions of your account value in dollars rather than BTC.


That does seem to be one of the BIG questions concerning if there happens to be any value in holding some or all of your account value in BTC rather than sticking with dollars ONLY?

Also this is one of two PayPal accounts that I have.

I can easily do hodl and fully understand cap gain tax for it. Or cap loss carry over.

To me it is a no brainer to take advantage of it.

Frankly I am too old (63) to deal with hiding my KYC info. So this makes things easy to do.

This account can be a simply hodl account for BTC. With my past history of over 10 years with this account and 10's of thousands in USD fiat charges and payments. This is simply another piece of investment for me.  And there is a hedge to it. Along with a simple accounting for cap gain/loss.  Just buy and don't sell for 2-3-5 years

At 63 I don't think in terms of 30 year hodl.

But I do think a nice 15 month plan as stated earlier would give me an idea of what this PayPal account can do for me.

I have still only read the first page of responses in this thread, and from your response to my post, I realize that I engaged in a bit of a presumption that some dickering around of account values might be reasonable in terms of considering potential future BTC price movements, and many of us longer term BTC HODLers realize that there are some problematic aspects in changing allocations based on anticipated future value (aka possible future BTC price movements) - which your post highlighted the weighing of some of the considerations that would be involved to move in and out of positions rather than attempting to maintain a more steady position.

By the way, I was presuming a bit of a range for your possible account value fluctuations, and really, if your account is anywhere in the area of $200 to $5k in the next year and a half or so, there might not be any great attention that would come from the IRS, unless they are adding up other areas in which accounts and BTC activities are adding up that go beyond reasonable assessments of BTC related activities..  Of course, these areas remain in flux, so individuals are likely to come to varying conclusions regarding how much reporting is reasonable and practical - especially related to potential micro-transactions.  I am NOT sure the extent to which your age matters, but of course, I get your point that if you have already built up systems that largely already account for your various BTC transactions in relatively comprehensive ways, why would you NOT just fold your PP related BTC activities into systems that you have already established - even though others might come to differing assessments regarding prudence and practicalities in that direction.

At JayJaunGee

When I got into this all back in 2012 I always went with kyc and government disclosure.

My reasons for this won't fit non-USA filers

And they won't fit many USA filers.

But they do fit for me.

They will fit for a lot of PayPal users in the correct USA states. Millions for sure.

Will I make PayPal sole hodl account for btc?  most likely no.

but will I make this particular PayPal account solely for hodl? YES I will


I have a second very active PayPal account and I could go with BTC in it.
It could be a transactional account with lots of ins and outs.
But for now I do not need to be any more complex with PayPal then buying 20 or 30 for 40 usd in btc every month or so and holding it.

So I reviewed this PayPal account and realized to keep math simple I should keep purchases at round numbers.
So I now have spent $100 usd on BTC and my BTC holdings are about 103.


https://i.imgur.com/sBEicGQ.png

so you did a 20.00 usd on the 21st
         then a 20.00 usd on the 22nd
and then a    21.32 usd on the 23rd
followed by a 20.00 usd on the 28th
lastly a final   18.68 usd on the 28th.

  a grand total of $101.32 usd out of pocket in usd funds

with some growth to 102.37 usd .

 Am I correct in this?
I see the pages and grabbed screen shots from your posts. I realized it may not be clear you are out of pocket $100.00 so far.

What this topic could make as a "goal" could be to show people that paypal is doing something amazing, they are allowing people who have been using paypal for years and years and of course OP is also a bitcoin person but there are so many who are not, what OP is showing on this topic that if you are a paypal user you could potentially get involved with crypto a lot easier nowadays thanks to this new addition, look how easy it was for OP to just get in and get some bitcoin and keep it in his account without any problem at all.

This is why I highly suggest that we should encourage behaviors like this, maybe even turn this place into a race type of thing where everyone shows off how much bitcoin they have on their paypal, obviously not everyone can have the same amount since some people are richer but we could show off as "part of the paypal crypto gang" and that hype could help us.

Yeah, it all seems strange to me--but it's the same thing on Robinhood, where you can "buy" bitcoin that you don't have the private keys to.  You can't deposit bitcoin on Robinhood and you can't withdraw it, so it's just a way to speculate on the price.

Fuckin' stupid if you ask me.  Philipma1957, I appreciate you trying this out so I don't have to.  I don't expect there to be any astounding outcome to this "experiment" but I wasn't even aware this function had even launched yet.  I just checked a few days ago and there was no option for me to buy bitcoin on my PayPal account.  Just as well, I suppose.

They are required to hold a certain amount of reserve but they don't have to actually perform the trades on the backend. They have to settle on a regular basis. They will certainly skim dough on all these buy/sell trades and more.

This will bring nice fresh cannon fodder to blow through and make BTC price rise.

i don't think anyone should have 10% or more of their holdings on PayPal, but I think every person on bitcointalk that can buy 20 usd worth and let it sit should do so.

For me this is a no brainer to do. 100 usd worth  so far and slowly buy with my rebate money from
"retail me not"

won't hurt me. I will have 500-1000 worth in about 15 months. I can live with holding that.

I think the reason why most bitcoin holders are happy is because its technically suppose to increase the price of bitcoin because even though you don't technically hold bitcoin, the counterparty in this scenarios whether is Robinhood or Paypal, they need to hedge somehow in case bitcoin goes to like $100K.

So the counterparty needs to buy bitcoin somehow, whether by Coinbase, or bitcoin futures or OTC somehow, it will create a smaller supply and hence price should rise. Bitcoin futures are cash settled, but the market makers on CME have to hedge somehow with actual spot BTC. So its basically all interconnected together.

If Paypal knew that BTC will never go any higher than $13.8K because they had a crystal ball then most likely they wouldn't hedge anything because whats the point but obviously that is not the case. So its definately hedged somehow and for every dollar of BTC sold, it should increase the price of BTC for the foreseeable future.

Actually As long as paypal manages to keep the coins correctly (no hacks) for three or four years.

It means 300 million plus people will see that btc is ‘safe’

And it is something they can buy and sell with ease.

But why? I can only see drawbacks, no benefits. From Forbes.com (https://www.forbes.com/sites/billybambrough/2020/10/23/paypal-just-gave-346-million-people-a-new-way-to-buy-bitcoin-but-theres-a-nasty-catch/):

To me, this looks like the worst of both worlds: Paypal is now an exchange that only lets you deposit and withdraw fiat. You can exchange it to Bitcoin, but you can only keep in on the exchange. Combine that with the fact that Paypal is well known to freeze accounts, and I wouldn't want to use this. But I'll follow your adventures with them anyway :D

If anything, it can only increase Bitcoin speculation. There's literally nothing else you can do with your Bitcoin on Paypal.

That's probably why Paypal doesn't allow you to transfer the Bitcoin to another account directly. It goes through fiat, so they can chargeback when needed.

---

---

Further reading: Cryptocurrency on Paypal FAQ (https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/article/cryptocurrency-on-paypal-faq-faq4398)
It's not even correct though:

They had a great opportunity, and they blew it :(

It's as if this FAQ was written by different people who didn't read what the others were writing.

Wait what? First they say it's only Paypal internal, then they say it can't be reversed. This doesn't make much sense.

After reading this I checked my Paypal account and there is no Cryptocurrency option there my Paypal is 5 years old and it's verified but I don't see any Cryptocurrency features or option to buy, I have not received any update coming from Paypal regarding Cryptocurrency is there country restrictions on who can use this feature?

robinhood is the same deal. you dont get an actual address to even see it directly on chain. so nothing on the blockchain, purely an internal database. so no way to directly enter or leave the platform.

but even if paypals (or whoever is actually holding them) coins get hacked paypal will almost certainly cover them. still be a black eye though.

as for freezing accounts, sure. any "exchange" can do that. any centralized thing can be frozen. but everyone should already be aware of that.

let them learn at thier own pace.

1st step: get some even if its through a reputable exchange (yeah i know) or robinhood/paypal.

2nd step: let them watch the honey badger with some skin in the game.

3rd step: ? up to them

Could be.

My account is NJ,USA fully verified kyc it has been used for over 10 years.

I used to have a  decent ebay business so I needed PayPal. I did over 300k in sales on ebay from 2003 to 2020

@ vapourminer I am kyc at :

Coinbase
Bittrex
PayPal

Of the 3 PayPal is far easier to do kyc
Not many people want to send in photos of Drivers license and passport. PayPal does not ask for that. Thus I am support the idea they have.

But do not put all or even most of your coins in PayPal. 100usd  worth of coins is no big deal for me.

It feels like buying "paper gold". Weirdly enough, I am completely confident buying stocks through a broker in exactly the same way. I won't ever get them in my physical posession, and I can only sell them through the same broker I bought them from. Maybe I could get used to buying Bitcoin through a trusted broker in the same way, but it doesn't feel right to abandon all benefits it offers only to turn it into an investment.
For really long term purposes (like pensions), I'd like not to have to remember passwords or store seed key phrases.

I trust my normal bank or broker a lot more than I trust Paypal. But indeed, for long-term storage, I wouldn't trust a crypto exchange more than I trust Paypal.

That is the deal here isn't it? You do not have to buy and sell, you do not need to trade, you do not need to deposit or withdraw, this could be just for pure investment and that's it. Nobody is forced to use bitcoin in paypal and it could totally get better as well with time but this is just a way to show that you could definitely make a profit from all the investments you make into bitcoin.

You do not want to use coinbase? No for binance? You dislike kucoin? No love for kraken? That is fine, there is 300+ million people who use paypal that could buy bitcoin and hold it and sell it back and use it as a great way for investment all thanks to this new deal. I highly congratulate phillipma for what he has done here and shown us how easy and simple this will be.

I wish more people would see it this way.  Cause it is how I would like it to work.  As I said I will not be putting a ton of money into it. Just a piece.

in NoV I get another 20 in rebates so I will buy more.

The investment simplicity is great.

Just add some cash and never sell it or use it.

The one day crack open the piggybank

That's unfortunate I am waiting for this to happen I want to buy and sell Cryptocurrency and at the same time explore merchants that I can deal with Cryptocurrency, my country is open to Cryptocurrency and we have local Crypto exchanges in our country I hope Paypal add it to the list soon.

Hey now!. Just logged in and hello!...Turned all my cashed out PP reward points into "free" bitcoin..yay!
So be prepared folks ..whenever I buy, a massive dump ensues...

Nice. I went to other account that I have and purchased 20

Do not be worried, there are tons of people who think like you and they will act like you as well, they are already doing that and there is no doubt in my mind that will continue for a long time as well. The reason why we hear people like "but you can't withdraw!!!" or "you can't exchange to another fiat!!" or whatever problem they think there is, are the vocal minority and they do not matter.

Of course they make the most of the bad news about this paypal situation but while they are complaining about small stuff there has been millions of people who bought either small or big amounts on paypal at the same time and started using it. This is why there are more people like you who do not talk about it versus people who complain and shout all the bad things about it.

Awesome post OP! I actually have a few euros in my dormant PP account (also very very old, but frequently blocked due to me changing locations a lot) and your post has now inspired me to wait for the time it'll allow my account to buy Bitcoin and just dump every client payment I'll ever still receive into BTC.

Just waiting on the "nvite" now I see others already got =) I guess they didn't think all my years of past activity doesn't warrant me an early invite!

So, I just read the news. Apparently PayPal has now removed the waiting list and gone live with Bitcoin trading in the US. I actually STILL can't see any changes to my PayPal dashboard, nothing's changed at all, so am I one of the unlucky few whose accounts are deemed unworthy of Bitcoin buying?

Or is this a country issue?

couple weeks ago i checked my paypal account of 10 years of mostly buying, no selling and i keep no money there, its just to pay for things. i too wound up with "you are now on the waiting list." havent checked since that new announcement though. USA here.

They aren't bringing Bitcoin services to countries outside of the US, or to Venmo customers, until 2021.

I'm a US resident (not a citizen) and I've had a Paypal account for a while. My dashboard previously said "Join the waitlist." Now it says "Curious about crypto? Buy Bitcoin and more."

I clicked through and had to accept some terms about the risks and volatility and lack of regulation, but it looks like they're letting me buy without any further verification. I've only ever verified my email address and bank account with Paypal, never sent in any documents, so that's pretty sweet. That's a real advantage over Coinbase if you think about it.

I have not used my Paypal also for the last three years and not in a country where Cryptocurrency features are accessible I stopped using Paypal when I shift to Cryptocurrency but out of curiosity I would like to see that feature when my location is finally accepted and will cross the bridge when I get there if I am going to buy and sell Cryptocurrency in their dashboard because what they are offering is very much different from what I've known from other exchanges.

Which is what I was trying to explain this is easy peasy.

Zero tax issues until you sell your stake. I have about 135 now as it has gone up in price.

Ah right, thanks for the info guys. I have actually had to verify several times over the years, initially even needed to send bills (not identity though as I recall) and I always felt it was to do with the problem with virtual CCs used to verify.

135 philipma? Super jelly here. But you're right no tax issues as long as you keep it there. Just got me thinking.

no 135 usd bro not 135 btc ;D

I could only wish to have that much coin.

You may have only 135 dollars, but that is 135 dollars worth of bitcoin you didn't had previously and now you have it. Obviously it requires people to keep saving up a bit but I see this paypal deal could only benefit long termers a lot and not short term people, it looks more like an investment and not trading. For example, let's say you own a shop or a business that deals with paypal paying customers right?

If you sell one product for 100 dollars, costs you about 30-40 bucks (with everything from tax to fee's to everything included) and leaves you with 60-70 dollar profit and that is how you survive, why not just say "put 5 bucks of it aside for bitcoin as well" and keep increasing your bitcoin savings? It could be done and I think that is where we are headed with paypal investments, having a decent bitcoin savings on your paypal account is an awesome thing.

It is very much like old school Christmas clubs that banks would do in the 50's and 60's

Did paypal set some max limit of BTC that you can purchase? Someone on twitter said that they got some approval and can buy up to $20,000 worth of crypto. Wondering if this is the limit that is set to everybody or just the people who got verified accounts with a good reputation?

In my opinion its a pretty high limit because if I recall if you made a new account on Coinbase a few years back during 2017-2018, I think they only let you buy like $200 or $300 worth every week. No idea why it was set so low, most likely to combat fraud.

I wasn't alive during 50's and 60's so I have no clue what Christmas clubs are, but as long as that is a good thing, I am all for it :D. I just wanted to say that bitcoin savings in paypal when you can get paid and put aside would allow a lot more people to be involved with crypto a lot more easily than what we had previously, obviously people could have put their money into coinbase and get bitcoin for it, and they could have withdrawn it and use it anywhere as well and that is still applicable today as well, people can still do it, having paypal didn't suddenly remove other options.

However having this added more people, so on top of people who used coinbase and similar places, we ADDED paypal and even though some people like you who would have otherwise bought bitcoin some other way uses paypal now, we also added people who would have never be involved with crypto to begin with go into crypto because of it as well.

They were like this. Dec 1 you go to a bank and open a club.  a 1 dollar a 2 dollar a 5 dollar  a 10 dollar a 20 dollar.

You put in 50 payments for the next year or so.

 so the 1 dollar  became 50 plus a 2 dollar bonus for making the 50 payments.
the 2 dollar became 100 plus a 5 dollar bonus for making the 50 payments.
the 5 dollar became 250 Plus a 12 dollars bonus for making the 50 payments.
the 10 turned into 500 + 25
the 20 turned into 1000 + 50

the bonus was higher then interest rates.  because you got zero bonus if you did not do the 50 payments.

but it was a good deal for savings if you have discipline you earn a high interest rate.

Plus it was easy peasy to do it.

This is the close to the same deal put in some cash and it grows. the interest so to speak is from the rise in btc value.

I don't know if that is a very good comparison, Philip.. because the BTC situation is far from guaranteed, even if we might place decently high odds upon BTC's ability to gain value in the coming years, especially relative to fiat.

well like i said close.

your risk for a christmas club is failing to do all your 50 payments and simply getting back what you put in.

49x 1 = 49 zero interest.

50 x 1 = 50 + 2 interest or 52 dollars.


with paypal

50x1 = 50 usd in and the btc value can go way up or way down.

so you could get 0 or 50 or 100 or even 1000.

so risk factors and possible gains or losses are different.

but the idea of simply placing 1 or 2 dollars when ever you can with almost no restrictions to deposit what ever and when ever . does allow for easy building of the asset.

in both cases building the pile is easy. that is what I am trying to convey.

try and buy stock for a ton of people it is hard.
try to buy btc from paypal. once they give you a chance to do so and approve your account it is really easy. 

much like it was easy to put money into an old school christmas account.

yes is is a different animal you are feeding $$ to.

btc high risk with loss,or maybe large gain.

christmas club low risk low return

I actually went to cash out free PayPal bitcoin in mid December to cover my monthly pp bill. (converted from my pp rewards when bitcoin @13.5k )
Figured it was a nice profit anyway, so why not?
Then the tax form popped up and I was like "ahhhh fuggit, ICBB, I'll wait till next year....."
That turned out to be a wise decision. Thanx IRS tax form pop up! (still hodling)

They did you a favor.

I have the three accounts with paypal. I think I have 800 usd total in BTC in the three accounts.

update. So far 1112 in is now 2276 not bad.

Surely, something does not seem quite right about your numbers phillip, and surely we are seeing something like a 2x in that performance.

Of course, if you had lump summed into your paypal purchases of bitcoin coupons, your value would have gone up 4x to 5x from a kind of $12k-ish to something approaching $60k.. so the fact that you have something that is much closer to 2x seems to support that your purchases are a bit skewed in very recent times rather than earlier times of your getting involved with reporting your paypal purchases..

My suspicion is that your profits from mining, as measured in dollars, had gone up more in the second half of the measuring period rather than in the first half and so therefore, your injection of value into your paypal account to buy bitcoin coupons actually was skewed towards the later half rather than the first half of the measuring period.

Well One account  did more profit than 3x  the middle one. Moved up 125 to 444 my personal account. 3.55 to 1


My wife's account did not start until December as it was not made eligible until mid December.. so it went up 1.81 to 1 or 467 to 257

The business account had late money added and only went up 1.86 to one. or 1364 to 740

I only feed back money that comes in to the accounts so it can be slow to happen.

We announced that PayPal users in the U.S. can buy, sell and hold select Cryptocurrencies directly through PayPal using their Cash or Cash Plus account. Users will be able to learn about Crypto, track crypto prices, all without leaving the PayPal app. We plan to introduce this service to Venmo in 2021.Customers in the U.S. (except Hawaii) can buy, sell and hold four different Cryptocurrencies on PayPal: Bitcoin, Ethereum, Litecoin, and Bitcoin Cash.