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I have read tons of threads regarding this notion of doing a casino with a Negative House Edge, and of course it makes sense NOT to create one, right? Unless you wanted to give away free crypto to users, in the long run the house would be losing crypto coins.

Now, I really6 thought about this for more than a year now and I think I found the only way that a Negative House Edge Crypto Casino can work.

So, I made the first casino with negative house edge and I was wondering what you guys thought.

Obviously, the goal is to promote the use of the Phreess token, and for people to earn Phreess in the long run playing on the casino.

Who would be on the right mind on creating one? If you are just concern on giving away those pherees token then it would be better to give it or via airdrop and you would save up lots
of work and hassle on creating a gambling site just because for that sole purpose.

Imagine that we cant even see gambling sites do make zero house edge yet on how the hell they would make money with that set-up.? Its a simple logic that with negative ones then
you are just trying to kill your own gambling site.

Pheeres token? people wont bother if this token doesnt really have value at all.

The Phreess token is still in pre-sale phase, so it is still not on exchanges yet, but I created one negative edge casino for people to earn Phreess tokens.

You could buy, earn them in games or earn in bounties. The Negative edge is to get people interested in the coin and earn in the long term.

Now, there are around 2.3 billion Phreess tokens to be sold or to be earned through games or bounties, so the negative edge would be up and running until all tokens are sold and earned. Then, we would change the house edge to positive to earn phreess tokens back and then when we have enough, turn the edge back to negative to give all those tokens back again.

I think it's a cool way to get the community engaged.

Ultimately there aren't any incentives for the investors if this is what you're planning. Giving them away in a bounty such as what you project is good, but giving them something again AFTER the token goes live on exchanges is not really smart. Most probably you would see dumps on your token in no time if you revert the house edge of your platform to negative in order to entice people to get involved in the community. Using a negative house edge casino platform for bounties during pre-sale is already a good idea, but doing it a second time after people have bought tokens isn't.

I will definitely have that in mind :)

Where will these tokens come from? Won't they be created out of thin air?

Every time someone withdraw some tokens from your website, the token circulating supply will increase and tokens will decrease in value.
Additionally, I doubt you can provide liquidity for converting those tokens to dollar, BTC, ETH or other valuable currencies. So they are worthless.
It doesn't make sense to play in such a casino unless someone play only for fun.

At one point all coins were valued at zero, and that didn't mean they are valuable today.

This is not a quick rug-pull, so I believe it will grow in value. But sure, right now each token's value is low but it will grow as time goes :)

Unless those token holds true value I guess you will not see nor will be flocked by gamblers on your site. It may sound news and unique to me but I don't think this will be good for the long term on your end. I think you should consider more the investors since this is an investment thing and if investors will buy now then the positive house edge will be done later I think it isn't profitable especially for the early birds that supported it.

Yup, that's correct.

The goal is to enhance the use of the Phreess token and once the Phreess Exchange is ready, people will be able to trade their coins over there, and since the price is really low right now, it will be very interesting to see.

EDIT: I think that the Exchange is up and ready and it's value is shown, people will flock to these games.

Everything takes time, so patience is key hehe. This is a long term game :)

Creating a negative house edge gambling site is a wonderful innovation but I dont think this will go a long way, i dont want to discourage you but the idea to promote your token which will be use as native coin on the site seems to be a bad idea cause 95% of all gambling site native token are later obsolete. However, you doing the intial offering of the token through ICO wont help the sales either.

Yup, usually they become obsolete as owners let go their sites, don't care about keeping up the good work and everything else needed to make a successful site.

I think we are really early to see it's full potential.

The first step is to finish the Phreess Exchange, and continue promoting the whole Phreess project, not only on forums but other means, like search engines, content marketing and a lot of other great ideas.

In the past, one of my biggest projects got like 3million visitors in like 6 months and I made a killing.

It takes time. That time, that site took around 8-10 months before it went to the moon in serps (search engine ranking pages) to #1 in lots of highly searched terms, and that's where the users really started coming in.

Right now, we are at the stage of starting everything and showing people what we can do, but in time, the site will talk for itself and the engagement will be amazing.

Like bitcoin, when it started, everyone called it a scam, but now even jpmorgan got his crypto ready to roll.

So, it's all a matter to get to work, increase engagement and let things develop naturally. :)

Even if there’s a negative house edge the gambler must still be cautious because for me its too impossible to have this one where the business of casinos is to make money and not to giveaway that easily. I’ll let someone to try this one first before I do more research about it and since they are still on a pre-sale, there’s still time to do our research so don’t rush because of hype.

they are not really giving away their tokens easily. what i understand here is that they are selling their tokens via this gaming platform, that's why they are having negative he for now. so they are favouring the players for the moment because they need to sell their tokens via their games.
but once their tokens are sold, they will have the regular he for a casino.
though we rarely see a casino succeed using their own coins or tokens, but lets see how far this project will achieve here...

Not totally on selling it but rather in the form of giving it considering that the house do have negative house edge which you can really say that players would have the edge.Right? So it does mean that winning those tokens wont really be that hard compared to those having +1- 1.5% HE. So theres no involved about buying out some tokens on here but somehow i do see on whats the true motive or target of op here via means of distribution of coins but it is quite that too hassle or too much work on making a gambling site just for dedicatedly on distributing their own coins?
Just on the same insights and inputs of others that there are much more simplier way if he do seek for distribution not just on making or do involved gambling games
just because he wants for people to engage with it.

Maybe it's time to realize the real game with gambling, negativity always affected a lot of people particular with addicted ones. We must act seriously and don't get deceived by different promotions coming out, because this will literally drown you with ongoing gambling desires. Having research is good but not effective in many certain cases, self control is the very best option to have.

 Negative house edge? Did I read it correctly? What will be the gain or profit for casinos without a house edge? Probably, you only take a commission from winnings like few online casinos, only winners are charged for taking a more percentage from a winning pot. A further explanation will give an idea of what kind of house edge mechanics we discuss here.

P.S: I have seen the negative edge of trading pairs and on small exchanges. They burn the tokens of exchange on monthly basis and the less token circulation makes it high price for the token holders.

If you will check why they are offering neg HE, is because they are selling their game tokens also. So to sell their tokens, they created a casino with negative HE to attract players. But they need to buy their tokens in order to play on their website. Not bad though. How they sell their tokens via using a negative HE casino.

Yes! AND the best part is that users can win more tokens playing on the site!

I beg your pardon if I'll sound a little bit harsh. I'll just be giving my honest opinion.

If the casino with a negative house edge is offering gambling games in BTC, ETH, LTC, DOGE, and other usual top cryptocurrencies accepted in casinos, this design is definitely not possible at all. Gamblers would certainly take advantage of it and it will just be a matter of time before the casino will raise the white flag and close or change course. Everybody knows that whoever has the edge will come out the winner in the long run.

I guess your confident in designing a negative house edge casino comes from the fact that your token is worth nothing at all. Even if the casino is losing-- which is what is going to happen by design-- you can generously give huge amounts of Phreess away with pleasure. This is the reason why your casino might sound nice to some. But then with how gamblers could easily gain Phreess I doubt it will gain much value in the future.

A negative house edge could be applied to limited bets on a few games but certainly not in the entire casino itself.

At this time, that may be the case, but once the Phreess Exchange is up and running, the token will gain it's value, plus it is impossible to mint more tokens. So people will be able to gain more Phreess tokens or other cool gifts to be announced.

Right now the focus is adoption and wildspread exposure.

Wait, tell me, what is the necessary connection between running an exchange and the rising value of a token? There doesn't seem any. Also, a limited supply does not automatically give value to a token. And it is quite surprising hearing about the Phreess Exchange all of a sudden while discussing about a negative house edge crypto casino. So the Phreess tokens are used both for gambling and as a form of a security token?


It is. And I guess efforts should be focused on it as it is more or less the everything of your project, provided the design itself is great.

Are you really sure about your plan? Creating your own casino for the players to earn your own token with negative house edge? Giving away free tokens, you just simply create a game wherein we can play and earn. Probably a fun app (not a casino) that will earn  your token if we win. It's complicated if you'll create a gambling online casino with negative house edge. I must say, if you wanna give it free, don't make it too hard for the target users because gambling is fun but is luck based, too.
 
 
 Im thinking about these, too. We have to beat the house  of course and if house just give out your coins, of course we can possibly use other coins to play in your casino. Is it worth it if we lose in exchange of your tokens?

Wait.
So if I am an investor then I would be in a delicate position here?
You are giving away free tokens because of the negative house edge.
The value may come up with "widespread adoption" as you say it. But, it will also drop when all those freebies will be sold instantly.
What will be my advantage as an investor? Or, should I just be one of those who will play the game to make more?

Are you not worrying that it may scare buyers?

If you mean negative house edge in a way that you give token on every bet and net deducting any fee on each round then is same with the casino on EOS dapps. The way they mine there token is through betting on there casino. They don't have house edge and the only way they are making profit is when player lose or when there token gain value through speculation of there casino performance. This is a cool idea but the only problem was the competition on this business. House edge is not an issue anymore these days for players. Players always choose the casino that offers cool games, events and giveaways so better consider that too on your upcoming casino.

The offer is too good to be true for a negative house edge to maintain a profit. How do you plan to create a profit when the games at your casino are in favor of the players. That is opposite what a businessman should do, thinking about favoring the interest of their customers. The business model that you are proposing will be unsavory to your investors, and in my opinion, it will not work unless you do some questionable underhanded tactics. If you say that you will put negative house edge and then putting it back to a positive house edge, then as a gambler, I would just wait it out. If that exploit is done by a lot of the players, it will break the business within months.

Having a casino as part of your marketing campaign to promote your own coin seems fine to me. So your losses from the casino are basically just costs to run an Ad for your coins.

I am just curious, where are the funds coming from to run that casino? And what kind of negative house edge are you running?

I will give your casinos a try this weekend.

First of all, negative house edge crypto casino makes no sense at all. I mean what's the use of it? Why not give away those Phress token for free instead of making people gamble and win those tokens in the long run?
Never heard of phreess token though. Everything over here sounds wrong. You will make people buy phreess token and bet in the casino with the hope of winning more? This sounds all suspicious to be honest. Giving away tokens for "free" in the long run is going to have a adverse affect on the price. Maybe explain what you are up a bit clearly?

You need to buy their phrees token before you can play on their platform. Right now, their price is 1 Phrees = 300 satoshis. So they are selling their tokens via their casino. That's where their funds will be coming from. We will see if they can attract players here that will buy their tokens.

I had a look at the site phreess.com and when I read the following
I could only close the page and start laughing.

I haven't heard of it, and I don't see how this can work for a casino, but it's good that you're trying out something new. However, I think it would be better to have zero house edge on the bets, but a withdrawal fee that compensates for that. Plus a faucet or a welcome bonus. And honestly, I don't think anything can work to attract people to a new token that's not even on any exchanges yet. The era of altcoins is over, and there are always tokens that never even make it to exchanges. So depositing any money to the website is very risky because then you'll withdraw something potentially useless from it.

That's the point mate, anyone thinking about this should rethink becasue the sole purpose of setting up a gambling online casinos is for gain and not for free from OP. Getting into this shit is like getting into fraudulent hole IMO, though, this can be a new thread in the industry which we might see interesting in the future time, so, let take watch-out.

negative 1 house edge ? but why not put zero house edge . i dont know if whats the difference between the two but i believe that still gives a better chance of winning compare to positive 1 house edge .

its a smart way and a new way to promote a token and you do it this way instead of doing an airdrop or a bounty . this is fun to do compare to working on both said activities but you only gotta make sure that the token will be listed so that people that are serious on earning this coin wont be dissapointed .

dont use the name gambling if you have other hidden plans .

One thing came to my mind fastly when you've said about negative house edge and that is the sustainability of your casino. But as you've said that you'll have your token, then that's the key and answer to that thought.

But to tell you, there were casino projects before that completely rely on their tokens but it didn't do them well at the end. Having that start of making a casino and make use of your token and with the exchange with it, you'll have to do a lot of things to make it known by most people inside and outside the forum.

Your goal OP is to make your own crypto good and widely known. In return, you will make you casino with negative House Edge, it means that players will most likely be winning and earning your own crypto. In short, you are going to give away free tokens to users. My first question, if everybody will get these tokens without buying the huge portion of it, how come they can sell it with value? Or maybe my prediction could happen, you will just give useless tokens to winners. Both the house and casino will lose in here.

:D smart thinking, we have seen such scenarios with some gamers in this industry. OP thought this will be easily come-bye, but this won't; due to what projects did against investors (gamblers). With this, gamblers won't be interested on this initiative IMO, but there is no harm in getting to tryout new stuffs. Many hunters who have promoted such initiative before now were left with tokens without life, non-exchnageable tokens to fiats and project ended.

With a negative house edge your guaranteed to make a profit once you make more bets but with a zero house edge there's no actual distribution of tokens since the chances for both side is the same. It does give you a better chance of winning but OP's plan is to spread the token with little to no cost kind of similar to a faucet instead of just providing a better chance of winning.

I totally understand that train of thought, though, you can't always be thinking everyone will scam you.

We didn't just buy a cheap script and uploaded to server, we are heavily working on our new launches and how people can ENJOY  using Phreess :)

As always, patience is key :)

Correct, but the main goal is to spread the use of Phreess, and what a better way to reward our users with a fun way to earn tokens than a Negative HE Casino :)

I havent spot it out and thank you for elaborating it buddy and same as yours on when the time i do able to read up some guarantees of likes "price will increase and wont drop" kind of lines
then that will already automatically give out some negative impressions. Giving out some guarantees that investors wont lose money if they decide to buy the token is just only
good or can only happen in dreams but in real life? Meh. .Those are just empty words yet price increase or value will always vary on the demand on said tokens.
I agree with some words that this is something new in way of selling out projects token but giving out guarantees? that really leave out some not good impressions.

I think almost no one knows anything about this phreess token but I think it is a decent idea, while it is way more simple to just airdrop those coins it seems to me this is an interesting promotional approach to try to make their token more well known, while some a are complaining that no one is going to bother about playing in that casino because the tokens hold no value, think about all the people that play video games and do so for no monetary gain.

Now I do not know if the coin is any good or not but I think this is a novel idea that could in fact caught on because as we know there is a very strong community of gamblers and they will appreciate the idea of gambling a little bit on a casino with a player advantage and receive some free coins in the process.

I should've worded out that differently. I guess the only guarantee in life is that life will go on.

You seems to have everything put in place cause the others features you mentioned can make your token thrive in the market cause crypto investors always welcome new innovative project rather than a copycat but I hope you guys also have everything put in place concern the negative gambling site you are planning to create due some fee that you'll use to keep the site alive.
With that been said, I will advise you to sell your token through IEO or including Defi through Uniswap which seems to be the initial offering unvestors follow these days.

I see your point, investors will not bite this kind of offer.

Knowing that those free tokens can be gain throughout  when playing inside the house are mostly be sold right away. It will affects the
value of the token and for investors side that won't attract them, there are many projects that shared dividends to investors most failed
to attract people to support the project.

How much is your negative house edge exactly?
There is some publicity I suppose

Thanks. Yeah, once the Phreess Exchange is up and ready, people will be able to trade their tokens over there.




Yeah, that may be true, but as soon as the Phreess Exchange is up and running and people actually start trading their coins, that's when it will start the journey.

Right now, it's not on exchanges, but soon will :)




The House Edge is -1%, which means that overall, for every bet you make, you get 1.01x your bet.

I like the topic and negative house edge has always been a hot topic because while casinos cannot operate at house edge but I wonder even without an edge or even negative house edge which works for players might still benefit house because the bigger bankroll usually tends to eat up the smaller one, house edge only helps the cause.

There are no current casinos that work at negative house edge and there is no reason for a casino to operate like that because mathematically the casino should lose to the gambler which sounds crazy, but I personally feel even without the house edge it would be gambler who would be on the wrong side of the results still. Think of it, we often deposit and lose all that money but do we wager for all of it? Suppose I deposit 0.01 then I would bust it without even getting close to 1 BTC (1% house edge means I should be able to wager 1 BTC before losing 0.01BTC) wager which shows that house edge is not the only reason for the gambler to lose.

So users play with the phreess token, not BTC, etc, right?
If that's the case it is somewhat similar to staking with an uncertain yield. Yeah, it is doable. But depending on how easy to earn the token, the price would go to the equilibrium (in theory), so there is no such thing as a guaranteed profit (in dollar or BTC value).

they think negative house is a good idea to attract people but it will only attract those that hunt free coins and theres a posibility that investors wont invest anymore and they will also join the craze of playing the game just to earn a coin .

if they dont wan this to happen , they can make another option which is to limit the rewards given on the casino or they dont make the house edge negative so that chance of winning to free players will be lessen . investors wont be affected that way .

You buy a token with money but you don't have a way to turn the token into money. It's like playing fun game spending money.
If you can't redeem your tokens or sell to other users, it's worthless. Furthermore it's not a cryptocurrency or a token if it can be transacted through.
It's just a virtual game points on the site that can be bought using crypto. It makes no sense even if it were a -100% house edge.

Do you know what you should have avoided? To start a shady project in the first place; then you come here promoting your negative house edge coin flipping game to get people's interest.
I have snapshotted your bold statement in case you will change it
https://i.imgur.com/Woei9Zv.png
I don't flag you know but I will watch this closely to help people not being scammed by your ICO.

^ Playing in a negative house edge with Phreess or any token that has no value at all is like playing a kids game where if you will win you can just simply brag it to anyone because the prize that you can earn from winning has no use. Apparently, for people like me who finds gambling as entertainment, I can somehow try it as well besides I play and put bets on the amount which I can only afford to lose, and playing on this negative house edge using Phreess token I will not be afraid of getting lost since it is free and has no value for now. Nevertheless, winning on the negative house edge with a token is not bad at all for we cannot assume if Phreess will never gain any value in the future.

Don't say that it is free to play as you need to purchase phrees token in terms of btc or eth before you can play. Hope you didn't overlook how much they are selling their token at a price tag of 300 satoshis per phrees token. So you're not playing for free here. This is the reason why they have negative house edge, to attract gamblers to play on their site but in return they need to buy their tokens first.

https://i.ibb.co/hgmW2PY/Screen-Shot-2020-11-06-at-6-36-29-PM.png

The problem I see in their model lies in this statement as taken from the website:


Because, this means that players will earn free coins and then what they would do?

Obviously they will dump the coins and cash it and that is the problem when you give away free coins in name of negative house edge, players will play, earn and dump the coins which will always create a constant negative impact on the price for the tokens.

Completely agree on that and while the use and spread of tokens might carry the casino for some time but really it would not survive in the long term and lose everything to players eventually.

One way I think people can negate the house edge is by taking part in promotions and giveaways. For example, if you are a sports bettor you can check offers from sportsbet.io and stake.com as they offer some really cool promotions like UFC double pay (stake) and free bets on various events (sportsbet) so taking these offers you can negate the house edge to a considerable number. Negative house edge is just plain stupidity to even think about.

Don't worry, man. We are not here to scam. We are here to create a cryptocurrency that can help people move from the predatory fiat currencies that only allow people to lose wealth in the long run.

This will be a great experiment. The only thing that will decide things is time. Time will tell. But, scamming fiat from people is just not the idea. Like, if we exit scammed, sure, it would "help" us in the short-term, but in the long run, no one will win as fiat currencies lose value and we hurt people financially. So, the idea is to work on the long run for this to work.