Bitcoin Forum

Hello everyone and nice meeting you all!
I want to start investing in crypto. I have read that in order to be 100% safe someone needs to buy one hardware wallet. I have done some searching and i have chosen to buy the Ledger Nano X. My question is, do i still need a software wallet or this one is sufficient? I am seeing at their site that they are providing integration with various software wallets. I am still failing to understand why if i have a hardware wallet i would need a software one too!

Best regards and thank you in advance!

The hardware wallet merely helps you to generate addresses and sign the transactions. You will still have to connect it to a computer and for the computer to script a transaction for your hardware wallet to sign. Without the use of any software, you can't possibly be able to craft a transaction and send it to your Ledger to sign.

The integration is beneficial as most user wants some form of control over what they can do with their transactions instead of just being limited to a single wallet.

Hi @ranochigo and thank you so much for your quick response!
Oh! I see! That's why Ledger have a software of their own which is called Ledger Live! So, this device is not an actual wallet! Meaning that any coins i am going to be buying are not going to "stored" somehow into it! I still need to have a software wallet installed at my computer. But if i don't connect the device to my computer then i can't do any transaction?

Correct. It stores your private key and keeps any malware from accessing it and stealing your coins but it can't function by itself alone.
As in, the software is used only to spent the Bitcoins. You don't have to connect the Ledger to your computer all the time. The software has to be used to script and push the transactions into your Ledger. IIRC, there are certain mobile apps with Ledger integration as well.

First of all, welcome to the forum!

Now, about that one statement from your OP, there's a small correction to be made. Altough using a hardware wallet your security is increased by a lot, it will never be 100% safe. There are still some things that are completely up to you; such as not storing the recovery phrase in a digital device, storing that non digital seed in a safe place... along with some other security means; such as paying attention to phishing emails, etc.

Hardware wallets are safer than regular wallets, but never 100% safe; always keep that in mind.

I believe the software question has already been answered correctly, you need to use a wallet software in order to be able to operate with any type of coin. Now, if you are going to be using Altcoins, Ledger Live may be your best option, as it supports multiple altcoins. But if you are only going to be using Bitcoin, I'd reccomend you used Electrum together with the Ledger HW. It will provide many funtionalities that aren't included in the Ledger Live app

That's it, the answers above are all correct. Let's put them briefly:

- There is nothing 100% safe (your bank account isn't neither ::)), but a hardware wallet is probably the safest way to store your cryptos.

- Your ledger will create and contain your keys, and they will remain only there, so they will very hardly get compromised as they aren't created nor stored in your computer.

- To operate, you will need to connect the device to a wallet (Live, Electrum...). I'm not really sure as I have never tried it but I think of having heard ever that there is some way to spend the coins offline. Anyway, this is some curiosity/advanced technical topic, not useful for you right now.

- One more thing that I think it is important to remember: update the firmware from time to time, because if you don't do it for years, you may have some difficulties in order to make your device work again.

You are very welcome to this space crypto.curious. I hope you have a wonderful time here, learning and hopefully earning too.

Just to clear up this misconception - your coins are never stored in your wallet, regardless of what type of wallet you use. Your coins are always stored on the blockchain, and never leave the blockchain. The only thing that is stored in your wallet are the private keys (which are simply 64 character long hexadecimal numbers) which allow you to spend or otherwise move the bitcoin at specific addresses.

I would disagree with this. I think that a properly airgapped and encrypted cold storage device is safer than a hardware wallet. The problem is that such an arrangement is harder to set up, harder to use, and easier to go wrong with, than a hardware wallet. A hardware wallet is a very good balance of security and ease of use, especially for newbies, but it is not the absolute safest way to store your coins.

Thought about it, that's why I said "your cryptos" instead of "one's cryptos": let's take into account that he is new here.

Maybe, I should have said "safest way for you to store your cryptos" so there was no doubt about the meaning. Or otherwise. I'm not native so this is not really one of my strengths :D but I hope my post helped somehow, anyway.

Welcome to the forum mate! Getting a hardware wallet is a clever decision as it's much safer storing your private keys offline. However, you still need to connect it to your device before you are able to access it or create any transaction.

But be careful to buy it directly from ledger's website as few people have bought an already opened/configured ledger which off course is not safe as your keys is already compromised. Goodluck!

You made the right decision OP but also know that you need to keep the hardware wallet very safe, just because people tell you that's it's the safest doesn't mean its indestructible, keep it away from water and of course infected desktop PC or laptops

Also double or triple checking the address showing on ledger device and in the wallet (ledger live and electrum) to avoid sending to wrong address usually if the device you're using is infected with clipboard hijacker (https://techcrunch.com/2018/07/03/new-malware-highjacks-your-windows-clipboard-to-change-crypto-addresses/).

Wow!!! Thank you all so much for your quick responses and nice meeting you all!
About the supplier from which i am going to be purchasing my hardware wallet...i wish i can buy it directly from USA but i am living in Greece and the import tax is pretty steep! I will be buying it from amazon.co.uk because as a European e-shop i will not be having any import duty. Don't you believe that it's a wise choice to do so? I am it's Amazon...what can go wrong! Right?

Best regards!

clipboard hijacker may cause you your wallet if you are not careful enough and your device is infected with clipboard hijacker. The clipboard hijacker works like where you copy an address that you wanted to send a bitcoin but once you paste it the pasted address is different from one you copied. So, hardware wallets is not 100% safe unless you yourself will keep it safe then you'll be safe.

I've seen plenty of fake devices being tossed around in Amazon, they aren't as stringent about counterfeits as you think and plenty makes it through the sieves. But, it isn't that risky as long as you heed the advice here[1] and do a complete reset beforehand to ensure that you're generating new seeds (people were scammed similar to this before).

[1] https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002481534-Check-if-device-is-genuine

But isn't Ledger French? I would swear that they sent them from France, at least a few years ago, but I suppose that you have done your job researching so it may have changed. Just double check just in case.

About Amazon, I would try to avoid it, but if you don't have a viable alternative, then you may want to reset as @ranochigo suggests, just in case. Better safe than sorry.

Sometimes though, saving a few Euros doesn’t payoff though if you’re not versed on what to watch out for:  Even if you buy a hardware device from an authorised reseller, you need to check (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5284489.msg55455544#msg55455544).

I’d prefer to go purchase from the original retailer, but if you decide to purchase elsewhere, read through the above thread careafully and throughly, in order to check things to be on the lookout for.

Just as suggested, just buy directly from the Ledger website. They'll be the ones to deliver it for you. If you're from Greece, they have contact details with their authorized retailer from your country as indicated on the website.

You are right, they are a French based startup and probably earlier on shipments were only sent from there. After doing a bit of digging around their website; they now have about five offices in different cities:
• Paris
• Vierzon
• San Francisco
• New York, and
• Hong Kong.

I'm unsure if there are warehouses in all these locations (only verified the one at Vierzon), but it's likely deliveries can be made from all those places.

I bought some back in April, and the shipping was made from either france or belgium; I don't remember it %, but it was within the EU for sure.

OP, Ledger will be having some discounts this week or the next because of the black friday; I've read they're going to have a 40% discount, so it may be the best option to buy your HW straight to Ledger on these upcoming days

Hi @Porfirii, you are correct! I saw their price on US Dollars and i automatically thought that the company was from the USA. Thanks for pointing out to me!

Glad it helped!!

So double good news for you now: you will be able to buy from the original retailer saving the import tax, while at the same time you take advantage of the Black Friday discount as Csmiami has pointed out :)

Since you have already helped me so much, if you don't mind of helping me a bit more. I wanted to ask one more question regarding software wallets (since i am going to be needing one!), i am thinking of installing the one called "Exodus" but i don't see on their site any compatibility with the Ledger. In these cases what can somebody do? I mean...is there any way of using it and still use Ledger?

Best regards.

No, Exodus supports only Trezor devices at the moment. You could recreate the same wallet using your recovery phrase, but that would defy the point of having a hardware wallet. Why do you want to use Exodus in particular?

Hi @Rath_, i just saw Exodus wallet and it looked really nice as a user interface, that's all. Honestly speaking i am starting out now so treat my experience as a complete n00b! If you have any good wallet suggestions please do tell me.

Best regards.

It depends on what coins you are going to be holding with your Ledger Nano.

If you are planning on using a lot of different altcoins, then Ledger Live is going to be your best bet. I think it's not the best piece of software, especially when it comes to bitcoin, but it supports hundreds of alts all in the same place without having to download individual wallets for each one, so there is no denying that it is good from that point of view. Regardless of if you use other software too, you'll still need to use Ledger Live to update the firmware on your hardware wallet.

For interacting solely with bitcoin, I would recommend Electrum. It pairs easily with Ledger hardware wallets, gives a very nice interface, and gives you some functionality that Ledger Live does not have, such as being able to view all your addresses and manage individual coins and outputs.

It is possible to use both - for example use Electrum when you want to spend bitcoin, but use Ledger Live when you want to spend alts.

I would recommend you using Electrum and Ledger Live just like o_e_l_e_o said. While you might not use all of its features right now, it is definitely a future-proof wallet. Beside the features mentioned above, it supports the Lightning Network (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5259973.msg54732922#msg54732922) and RBF (replace-by-fee) which is useful if you set a too low fee for your transaction. If you don't like it, you will be able to switch back to Ledger Live without any additional effort. In fact, you can use both at the same time for Bitcoin. Select "Use a hardware device" during initial setup if you decide to give it a try.

Please forgive the hijack crypto.curious, but being new also I have wondered when people refer to linking/pairing a software wallet with a hardware wallet. I have an Electrum mobile wallet, and am looking to get a Ledger Nano S (can't afford the jump to a Nano X at this time, and besides I understand it's still just as safe just without a few features), so please may I ask what is meant by "pairing" say Electrum with a hardware wallet like a Ledger? What does it do for you?   

It means that you don't create a new wallet in Electrum, but you use an existing one which was created during initial hardware wallet setup. Electrum acts as a watch-only wallet if your "paired" hardware wallet is not connected. All the transactions require you to plug in the same device and confirm them by physically interacting with the device because the private keys are stored on the hardware wallet.

It simply means using the Electrum interface to interact with your hardware wallet.

Electrum is a piece of software. It can function on its own as software wallet, and if you use it like this, then the private keys are stored on the phone or computer on which Electrum is running.

The Ledger Nano S or X is a hardware wallet. When you use it, the private keys are stored on the secure element of the device and never touch your phone or computer, and so it is much safer. However, the hardware wallet also requires software on the connected phone or computer to be able to view addresses, create transactions, and all the other things you need to be able to do to use a wallet. The software Ledger provide to interact with the hardware wallet is called Ledger Live. However, it is missing some important features and so many users like to use different software, such as Electrum. When you pair Electrum with a hardware wallet, the private keys remain on the hardware wallet, but you use Electrum's interface to interact with them.

I see. So the original Electrum software wallet I've already created remains on my phone and can be accessed as well? (wanted to use that as minimal BTC spare online funds wallet)

When I set up the Ledger, if I want to use Electrum mobile software to access the Ledger hardware wallet I'll have to specify this at the time I set up the Ledger? Will that then create a new wallet on Electrum, or is it just a linked reference to the hardware wallet? Or is that what's known as a watch-only wallet?

I think I'm just getting it all mixed up in my head.  ???

Yes. You can use the same Electrum installation or app as its own software wallet (with the keys stored on your phone/computer) and as an interface for your hardware wallet. You just tell it if you want it to open the saved wallet file or connect to your hardware wallet each time you launch it.

Not quite. You should set up the Ledger using Ledger Live the first time you use it. This is so Ledger Live can perform its authentication checks, and update to the latest firmware. It will direct you through the process of setting a PIN on the device, and then writing down your 24 word seed phrase. You'll then need to use Ledger Live to install the bitcoin app on the Ledger device. Once you've done all that, you can use Electrum to access the wallet you've just created.

Here is the set up guide for the Ledger Nano S: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002481534. Start here when you receive your device, and work down the menu bar on the left to set up as a new device and update to the latest firmware.

Once you've done that, you can follow these instructions to start using Electrum with your hardware wallet: https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005161925-Set-up-and-use-Electrum

Ah great stuff that all makes sense. I think I understand now. Many thanks o_e_l_e_o for explaining it in detail. I'll also trawl those Ledger articles before getting the Ledger so I'm clear.

Oh!!!! This means that i can use as many software wallets i want and somehow connect them to my Ledger device!!! This is clearing up many many of my questions! I thought that after you install a software wallet and link it to the hardware device...that's it...these two stay linked forever! Now i understand as to the "why" the Ledger Nano X has 1TB of internal memory!

Best regards.

The software wallets are simply an interface to use the private keys which are stored on the Ledger device to sign transactions. You can use as many different pieces of software to interact with the hardware wallet as you like. You can use Ledger Live, Electrum, MyEtherWallet, Monero GUI wallet, etc., all with the same Ledger device.

It doesn't. Its internal memory is only 2 MB. It does not need to store large software packages like Electrum or Ledger Live - it only needs to store your private keys and the means to use them.

Oh!!!! So this means that after i buy my coin from any exchange i need to give to them my public key in order to transfer the coins to my wallet, right? Or they provide a wallet for themselves and then you need to transfer from their wallet over to your own?
One more question that i am wondering about, is if i want to buy a coin that is not supported by the device (eg. EOS) what is the 'proper' way of doing it? I mean is there any way of using the hardware wallet again in these cases or just wait for an upgrade from the manufacturer?

Best regards.

That depends on the exchange. Most of them provide a wallet which you should not use for a long-term storage. You need to provide your address to withdraw from them. If you are going to use Ledger Live then you will need to connect your device every time you want to get a new address and verify it by looking at the device's screen and pressing a button.


EOS is supported (https://support.ledger.com/hc/en-us/articles/360008913653-EOS-EOS-), but you can't use Ledger Live to manage EOS coins. You need to install third-party software and their app on your Ledger to be able to do that. If some coin does not have their own app available for installation on Ledger then you need to wait for the coin developer or the community to develop one. You can see a full list of supported coins here (https://www.ledger.com/supported-crypto-assets).

As Rath has said, when you buy from a centralized exchange, the coins go to your exchange account, and you then need to withdraw them from that account to your own wallet. But it is not your public key you use to do this; it is your address. The two are linked - most of the addresses you will use are created by hashing the relevant public key, adding a specific prefix to signal what type of address it is, adding a checksum at the end, and then converting the whole thing from Base16 to Base58.

An uncompressed public key might look like this:
Once we hash it as needed (SHA-256 followed by RIPEMD-160), it looks like this:
Once we add the necessary prefix and the checksum, it looks like this:
And then finally, we code it in Base58 to create a more familiar looking address:

What is hardware wallet? Course am new here.

We have a thread[1] for that, get there and read what does hardware wallet means and what are the types of hardware wallets.

[1] Hardware Wallets (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1631151.0#post_hardware)