Bitcoin Forum

According to the survey conducted by Mizuho Securities, after Paypal adopted cryptocurrency to its platform, almost 20% of Paypal users have traded using its app. And it was stated on the survey that there has been a remarkable increase of 50% in the use of the Paypal app by PayPal bitcoin traders after beginning to trade bitcoin.

More details here: https://crypto.co/technology/almost-20-of-paypal-users-trade-bitcoin-using-the-app/

Unfortunately this only applies in the US. Most paypal users who buy bitcoin at the beginning of its release will spend it because bitcoin is currently experiencing an increase, and of course users will get a greater quantity of goods and services.

That’s really an overly exaggerated statement echoed on the media: The survey is not a global survey on Paypal users (even if it is delimited to the USA), but rather subject to Mizuho Securities USA customers, as is inferred by the references left below, and carried out on 380 "users" (stated on Coindesk’s link).

In other words, they have an interesting perspective of what their customers are doing, but that is a biased group, and does not have enough selection entropy to allow for the concession of the headlines outside the scope of the bank itself (the size of the survey pool is also questionable).

See:
https://twitter.com/michaelsantoli/status/1333772425448796163
https://www.coindesk.com/mizuho-paypal-bitcoin-survey

If the adoption of this kind continues, I think it will have a big impact, even though the cryptocurrency exchange that is being implemented on the Paypal Apps is only for certain countries. but will it have an impact on other exchange platforms if Paypal actually expands its transaction power?

Just an interesting (and very limited) side note to this.

I work in IT and since the Covid shutdowns started in the spring I spent a lot of time getting clients to work remotely. MANY of them across all ages and social-economic groups did not have a "real" PC at home. Phones yes (duh), tablets most, chrome books / netbooks too. But real PCs. I am going to say 1/4 to 1/3 didn't have them. But, for the ones that did not have it's not like they didn't, spend time on facebook / twitter, do all their bill pay and banking, online shopping and everything else. At some point in time for whatever reason they got rid of their home PC and never got another one and their entire online world at home was on apps and some limited web stuff.

So when you see something like this it's not that shocking to me anymore.

-Dave

380 users is a terrible data set to work with, and when its concentrated to a very specific categorization of users its even more worthless. Honestly, I have very big doubts that 10% of users using Paypal, trade Bitcoin using their app. Any serious user of Bitcoin would have already know that Paypal fees are kicking your butt from the get go, and there's far better services elsewhere.  

This is partly true, I would agree. However, there are better alternatives available on the phone anyway, with more competitive fees. As mentioned the dataset included 380 users which will give very inconsistent indications. Usually, 1000 is an OK number, but basically the bigger the data set the more telling the results.

Twenty per cent of ALL Paypal users in the US? I find that totally impossible to believe. I doubt 20% of them even know it's there, let alone have had a dabble. Paypal is something you mindlessly log into to buy something. Not many go much further or explore whatever else it offers.

I'd assume most users literally only use it when there's a "pay by paypal" button on a website, and therefore only log in, and pay for things. I'm not overly familiar with Paypal, and I haven't looked at this recent addition of cryptocurrency, and Paypal in depth. For US residents does it even advertise to existing customers that its been added? Like is there any pop up telling them its been added? Even if it was, I'd half expect them to just ignore it, and pay for what they want.

A couple of users on here have posted screen shots but I don't know whether they had to seek it out or whether there was a flashing sign at the top of a normal page.

The one and only time I log in to Paypal is to withdraw from it. I don't see any of their irritating offers of credit or cards. I'm fairly certain I'd miss the addition of Bitcoin unless it was screaming in my face.

This one is just as credible as the ones stating 20% and 18% of the population of Turkey and Brazil owning BTC, I remember I end up with something above 500 million users just for the countries in the top 20.

I wonder what users they targeted when they did this survey, under 30, member of a bitcoin group, employed by a company that works with crypto projects, and who has a BTC tattoo? I doubt this number would be real even if we check the users on this forum, but once you leave the crypto space it might be safer to cut that zero.

20% is already a big percentage of its users. does it show how much-frustrated paypal users are when it comes to them reverting payments?


how do we know paypal is actually buying 70% of the new supply of BTC and if so why are they still not allowing users to withdraw when in fact they do have BTC to provide for users who want to send their coins externally?

the article also mentioned Cash App that is also buying virgin coins, great to see the adoption takes place faster.

these companies do this all the time, they just ask a tiny number of people some question and call that a "survey" and then make a bold statement like this. i say tiny because they chose 380 out of 305 million!!!
besides if 20% of paypal users were really buying bitcoin that would mean 61 million people bought bitcoin on paypal which is literary impossible since they don't even have that much bitcoin to sell to these people even if they all bought $1 worth of bitcoin not large amounts!!!

If it was an official report by PayPal, we could believe that, but a third-party survey is bound to have some huge methodological errors, like it often happens in crypto.


So, 17% of people with strong investment background used PayPal's Bitcoin trading - that's what this survey means. Pretty useless fact, as it tells us nothing about the global picture.


If some millions of people suddenly got into Bitcoin, it would have been noticeable on things like Google trends or twitter activity, but we've seen no such things lately.

No, it doesn't show anything!
Even if those percentages would be real all the users are not buying Bitcoin or rather I would say PayPal Bitcoin for doing transactions and avoiding reverting payments as you can' do anything with those bitcoins other than buying and sell them for $.
So no, nobody is buying bitcoin on Paypal because they are frustrated with Paypal or had problems in the past with it, it would be totally counterproductive as they hold all your funds be them labeled $ or BTC they still have full control over it.


Actually, for 1$ it would be possible  ;D, that's roughly 3000BTC and they claimed they bought 70% of the supply alongside Grayscale. If they bought those 3000 in a month that would be less than 100BTC out of ~900 mined a day.
Things get really messy if we think of over 10 or 20$ per "investor" which is also quite laughable.

No one is going to believe it, that number is simply too high and since we do not seem to have any indication about the methodology used to conduct the survey then we must be very suspicious about the results, you just need to use your common sense and you'll see that this is nothing more but an announcement to try to make it seem as if there is a huge interest coming from the PayPal user base in using their app to trade bitcoin.

And when you add that PayPal is always in control of their funds and that those people cannot really get their bitcoin out of the platform then I think it is very safe to say that those people are not trading bitcoin, they are just trading a bunch of numbers on a screen believing they are trading bitcoin, at least the centralized exchanges that we have allow you to withdraw your coins to a wallet of your own but this is not possible with PayPal.

Not so sure if I can rely on any paypal related news anymore. The bitcoin they were advertising in their site is clearly different from what bitcoin really is, and it's looking lime they're using bitcoin's name and popularity as a cash cow to pull more people into using their app. And it pretty much looks like that 20% they are talking about applies to US users only.  After seeing a lot of issues with paypal makes me more distant with them, not what I expected as what I have observed.

dealing with crypto in paypal is really far from what we actually do in crypto exchanges. the numbers presented during this survey is really not reliable, imo. we dont know where those numbers really come from. but lets be grateful that with this paypal's move, some noncrypto users who are paypal users got interested in checking out crypto. i am more then positive, that if these users learn more about btc or crypto, they will not use paypal's crypto services ever again. so what we can get from this situation - - more crypto users, which is good for the crypto market. thanks to paypal!

Agreed, the survey itself questionable, if the same is achieved through a proper sample people admit the reality. My thoughts, the integration of bitcoin into PayPal has made more paypal usres make use of the access to bitcoin. Based on the quoted calculation, it isn't possible now or in the near future. People are being fooled by the media favouring the centralized networks.

380 is a lot of people to be fair, the larger the data set, the longer it takes to complete the survey and not to mention that they need manpower to conduct the survey. I do agree and it ticks me the wrong way, how in the hell these users use Paypal as a means to trade when they are bombarded by hate from the other veteran users from the start of their integration. The best that they could do with the small data is that they should have gathered it in one state instead of spreading it across US.

The number looks too high for me, even if they are assuming that 20% of the US users are using Bitcoin in PayPal platform. The total number of active accounts with PayPal is around 350 million, and I expect at least 100 million out of that in the US. If 20% of them are using Bitcoin, that would return a figure of 20 million. This sounds too high. If we had that many active users, then the exchange rates would be in six digits. 

that 20 percent could be the existing users of paypal and are curious to try if what is btc or how btc trading works so they try it but that 50 percent new addition users of paypal could be users that didnt have a paypal before but wants to experience how it feels to trade btc or other crypto inside the paypal app .

20 percent is huge and thats not bad for starters and the number of that percent are still expected to grow by next year . that can support the price if ever btc bull run are going to an end .

Indeed, at this time it can still be used in the US, hopefully in the future everyone can use it without exception. To a lesser extent paypal does have an impact on bitcoin prices which had jumped sharply when paypal collaborated with bitcoin. Of course this is positive news and have heard that Amazon also wants to use bitcoin, is it true?

Even though people are not in favour of paypal adding bitcoin on their platform (since keys are not controlled by owner), I think the amount of people being introduced to the overall currency is a very good thing.

The new people coming into bitcoin would probably want to learn more and hopefully go off paypal to secure their own keys

That's good news and I expect the figure to go up for those who wants to try it and for those who wants to make profit

The part of the article that i really like is this one


These two company are helping the price to move up and we owe it to them, this is going to create a domino effect many companies will follow PayPal and Cash App, it's a motivation for us to buy.

I keep wondering how this PayPal Bitcoin trading of a thing looks like lol, I don’t live in the US so I can’t really tell. But the question I have in mind is whether PayPal will be good for day to day trading?

If you buy and sell Bitcoin multiple times in a day wouldn’t your account be marked as a suspicious activity and blocked for that reason?

I think PayPal will be much better if you’re someone that has plans to buy the Bitcoin from them and then hold it for long. And from the news I have seen everywhere it’s not cool that people don’t control their asset on a 100%, doesn’t seem nice to me.

That is not a reason for me. Even with limited number of continental usage, we are seeing more growth to everybody. It is just few people then price has really improved to this height, ATH is on the way and maybe we go pass it before the year end.

Talking about Bitcoin comes to mind for anyone on the exchange. It is natural for PayPal users to want to exchange bitcoin. I think the use that is being given to the app is positive. Today most of the things we can do from the smartphone. The crypto trade is in demand from the mobile we can check it with all the apps that are creating the exchanges that we know as Binance, KuCoin among others. Good news everyone, e-commerce and crypto will be gaining ground.

That 20% probably want to buy BTC before paypal join the crypto space but they are just not so open to using 3rd party as well as they don't trust BTC or crypto before. Some of them only trust paypal but now they want to profit in buying BTC. 20% is a big number considering there are Millions of paypal users.

Sadly they are not allowing withdrawal of BTC, there is no sense buying there in this case. But I hope a paypal user will come here to help us see what can be done in their platform.

Glad to see individuals are interested in using bitcoins. However, it's exceptionally hazardous for individuals who live outside the US.
On the off chance that your account gets restricted, you can lose your all bitcoin, and they'll freeze forever.
I trust 20% of people groups have a place with the United States. If they're exchanging outside the US, their cash is exceptionally hazardous.

I don't think you will get restricted because PayPal is only letting US Citizens trade it accordingly. Maybe they could somehow get PayPal credits and exchange them for whatever they desire but they couldn't get the Bitcoin out anymore. Maybe if they have transactions outside the US and go directly to PayPal (if they accept BTC deposits) then convert it and transfer to another PayPal account using credits or something.

I believe the reason for people to have an increase in crypto users using PayPal because they are the ones offering the service. It has been made available to people who have no access to it previously but supports cashless payments etc.

I still think that PayPal has made it more applicable to everyone but the fact that you cannot withdraw BTC from them, it's a shame. Unless there is now.

Crwth already told you, you can't purchase BTC via Paypal if you reside outside the US.
Now, to add a few things, if you plan to do that faking information, then you are already taking risks, there is no point arguing if Paypal does restrict your account.

Second, no matter how bad Paypal reputation is when it comes to freezing accounts and money there is one thing, if you have deposited those via a legit bank and you have no chargebacks from hacked PP accounts it's almost sure you will get what is left in your account delivered to your bank account. No matter what people say I would trust (even as a foreigner and not a US citizen but EU) Paypal more than some exchange that is based in HK or Seychelles or god knows what.


That will not happen soon, unfortunately. And if it might in a few years for the US customers I doubt they will do it for anything outside Canada or the EU.
It will be a pain in the ass for them, it will also lead to a lot of shady activity and I can understand them, they will not get that much growth in business to offset the troubles it will cause.


380 people is nothing compared to the userbase, just think we have thousands of people joining a bounty survey here, what is 380 out of millions?
The minimum survey to be even closely representative is above 1000, and it has to be targeted, in this case, it was just thrown away at some people from a group that was going to be biased from the start.

But look at the bright side, if we're not at 20%, most likely at 1-3%, so it can grow 30 times, not just 5.

Maybe the one they're aiming for is the increase of the stack of BTC that they have, knowing that they would be able to cash out more in the future or something. At least in the US, there are already a lot of crypto users and interested people using PayPal already and could potentially earn more from them with this setup. If they become successful, I think they would also apply it to other regions as well.