Bitcoin Forum

This is an open request to the top Admins of this great Forum, please give us a DeFi corner where we defined dengens can go and fraternize.

As you may very well know, the crypto space is developing rather rapidly and DeFi happens to be at the forefront of that rapid push. So, methinks this Forum should also be evolving to maintain relevance in this space.

Should DEFI be some obscure topic under the Altcoin board? No, I don't think so.

You'll agree with me that this monster, with its equally beastly moniker, DEFI, is indeed in its beast mode already. Running riots on long held conventions, and in fact, threateningly to disrupt every beliefs about money the human race use to hold dear. But luckily for us, crypto buffs, its our very own beast.
So, let's accord it the respect it deserves and give it a complete sub-board on the forum.

I suggest a sub-board complete with its own:
-->Degen Admins
-->Denen Rules
-->Degen mods
-->Degen design
-->Degen Ann threads
-->Degen Bounty Anns
-->Degen Rug Pull whistle threads
-->Degen News corner
--> Degen AMA corner
And so much more.....

Because as I mentioned above, DeFi is a beast of disruption unleashed on our global monetary clime, so let's give it the beastly space it deserves.


If you agree With this request please hit the '+Merit' button for me.
Thank you.

We only have bitcoin and altcoins in crypto space, DeFi are all altcoins and most of them are running on ERC20 smart contract, that's Ethereum blockchain, another altcoin or the king of all altcoins rather, if you are trying to push DeFi aside then let's start from creating different sub boards for CEFI too? Or oh Stable coins? How about some Security Tokens? All these are just use cases, they all belongs to alternative cryptocurrencies

Decentralized Finance is just a use case that just works, there is nothing that will separate the fact that all DeFi projects are altcoins, what about centralized Finance? As a matter of fact DeFi isn't even perfect yet, many are losing money to DeFi projects and most developers rushing their DeFi projects are just running after it's hype, DeFi still have a long way to go

I can bet your idea of ​​the 9 spaces that you proposed not even one granted, DEFI is not part of the Bitcointalk forum, DEFI is a deadly disease more than the corona virus, so there is no space available in this forum for DEFI.
Your proposal will be put in the garbage disposal, I am sure of that.

What is Degen & Denen, I just heard about it, don't be weird, just do what you are used to in this forum, like everyone else.

Oh my God where did you get all this garbage ideas from? As far as I know DeFi is big pain in the ass for crypto in general, DeFi is so unstable and life draining garbage that needs to stop existing, there aren't many projects that are really practising full decentralization in crypto space, I wish DeFi is gone because it's not healthy for crypto, it's ICO 2.0 all over again

Aren't DeFi coins as well? So technically, it's part of the alternate cryptocurrency. As long as it's not Bitcoin, it's considered Altcoin already. No need to add a board or something. It's probably a high percentage that significant DeFi coins have their own discussion boards/forums in their respective sites.

If you want to get noticed easily about anything forum related, post in Meta  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=24.0)board.

OK, guys. I hear y'all. I know your fears, really..
And its the more reason we need to accord DeFi the respect it deserves on this platform. I'll explain, just relax and hear me out.

Like I mentioned earlier, DeFi is a beast. OK, I didn't spell out this part, let me do that now:

DEFI IS A BEAST THAT NEEDS TO BE TAMED

What I mean is, in its present state it appears to be doing more harm than good especially to us crypto community attempting to interact with it. And that is simply because we have not understood it well enough. But, believe me, if we take the pain, there are a lot of hardcore DeFi guys in this Forum who'd gladly volunteer their knowledge and skill to put the reins of this raging beast in our hands, for cruise control!
And when that happens, we'd be at the forefront out there helping others master the intricacies of DeFi. Just think for awhile the huge benefits you'd derive from such a scenario.

On the other hand, if we continue to demonize and dread it, and refuse to own it, be rest assured that DeFi won't go away because you don't like it. No, it won't. But rather it'd keep disrupting the space, and sooner rather than later, you'd be forced to learn it the hard way.

Make your choice.

You're wasting time by doing that. DeFi don't have that much conversation anyway and it will loss it's popularity overtime, just like ICO and IEO. It's not the talk of the town anymore. Stop exaggerating it as if it's the most important cryptocurrency concept in the world. If you want, you can create your dedicated DeFi forum, which I doubt will get attention anyway.

I heard someone developing DeFi already on Bitcoin's lightening network. I'd research that and bring more info about it

In case you didn't realize, Stablecoins are a part of DeFi, in fact, the earliest iteration of the concept. And now before our very eyes we see all those big banks who used to pay less than a passing glance at crypto creating a full blown department to have a serious look at stablecoins. Government all over the world are cranking up their push for CBDCs

C'mon man, let's not play the head-in-sand act here. Let's not underestimate the power of one disruptive idea

I don't think that a new "sub-board" for DeFi is needed. DeFi is a hype, today is, not tomorrow. Such was the ICO hype in 2017. If you need a sub-board for DeFi today, you may need a sub-board for something else tomorrow.

Merit begging is not accepted in this forum.

it is Bitcointalk, not Altcoin talk.
most of Defi projects are scams and useless so creating a special board for it will increase scam reports.

The decentralized projects fever is only an extension of some old projects such as ICO, IEOs, Airdrop, ...etc


more boards = more admins = more useless topics

No need for that, we've got plenty of boards about altcoins which includes defi. The announcement(altcoins) has tokens(altcoins as sub-board.
That's why there's no need for it and there's already a lot of discussions about defi on this section.

After Covid-19, I guess DeFied-20 should be considered a disease as YOSHIE said. Looks like the very first patient is coinriches himself. Sorry Op, you have demanded something I cannot stop laughing at. And you said DeFi is in its beast mode?
Actually you are right, it has become a beast which is eating every investor's money.  ;D

The merit helps to boost a post's visibility, right? I just want the post and its purpose to reach high enough for attention

I don't think we need to make a DeFi sub-board...
DeFi is a part of Altcoins, so discussing it on the Altcoin Board is sufficient. but if you are not satisfied with all the answers then move this topic to the META thread, so that it is discussed with the moderators there.

DeFi it's just a wide term that embrace a lot of different types of crypto product.
Most of DeFi have been always treated just as altcoins (like bankor or Loopring). You can have both exchange / yield farm or oracle service.... isn't very useful divide from the rest of altcoins section.

The fun part.
+Merit if you agree.  :o
No, it ain't.  :P

I didn't even see this during the ICO times and it was still way bigger than DeFi now.
Sure it is still in hype but, will it last long?
By creating its own Sub-Board and it just fails then it will just be a waste of space.
Just put it in the altcoin section if you want to share something. It is still an altcoin, right?

Everything non-Bitcoin would go to altcoin, that's why it is an "Alt" in the first place. It's like saying that there should be ICO boards, IEO boards, STO boards.
I don't support this suggestion, OP.
This is too much to handle as well for the moderators. It will create confusion as well because Defi already bombarded the Altcoin board.

I have already taken OP's topic as sarcasm, except there's something else I miss in the post. Otherwise, I like to see it as humour for what it is. So, why did no one create a sub-board for ICOs, IEOs and what not when they all trended? Defi is just a trend like many others before it. It's nothing special to warrant creating a board for, IMO. And it should stay in its rightful position as an altcoin and be treated as such. Nothing special, at all.

Going thru the response of everyone its clear that most of us hold a wrong perspective about what this forum really is.

BitcoinTalk is not just another forum. No.

BitcoinTalk is the LEGACY forum for Bitcoin and Blockchain development.

Yes, everything happening in this field today took off from here and Github. So, we must strive to continue to ensure that the forum is always at pace with happenings in the blockchain world. Can you imagine now, for example, a blockchain project that doesn't have a Github repo reference? That would be considered a mistake.
In the early days this was the place everyone came to find unbiased views about any new ICO rave they find out there.

But a lot of new projects now comfortably ignore this forum before, during and after their launch. And that's because we ain't reinventing ourselves quickly enough to maintain relevance.

DeFi is happening now, let's hitch our beloved forum on its back and watch it ride back to prominence.

Don't because DeFi is currently trending to be special, I think DeFi is the same as ICO and IEO which one day will be replaced
by another trend. So it should be like now, DeFi discussion at altcoin discussion, and this forum doesn't need DeFi sub-board.
Moreover, the current performance of DeFi projects has decreased and what is worrying is that now scam DeFi projects have emerged.
Sorry I don't agree with your idea and I'm sure the bitcointalk forum admin will also reject your idea.

Since you Claim that Crypto is developing rapidly as DEFI in forefront ,Then why not CREATE YOUR OWN DEFI FORUM ,For sure you will progress that rapidly as you are on forefront of cryptocurrencies now.. I think that is not a Bad idea right?


YES and absolutely YES.. Unless you Deny that DEFI is an ALTCOIN? Forum even Deny Providing Sections for Some countries as this must be evaluated first and now here you are with just the Hype you made months ago wanted to Have their own room instantly.. If you don't want to be in Altcoin board then better to have own forum.




Wrong.... Merit Helps account in ranking and also given in post/threads that they think valuable to receive and not to Boost your thread.. Meaning We don't give you a merit as not finding anything useful .. ALTCOIN will remain ALTCOIN.. because this is BITCOINtalk..you are lucky to be given altcoin board so please remain that way.

Everyone witnessed that DEFi made a Super growth recently and the market owes than.

But i believe that Altcoin must be respectively in Altcoin section,maybe having Sub Board will Do good..You can discuss everything about DEFI development and Functionality ..But that's it no further more.

There is nothing great about DeFi projects, they are also alternative cryptocurrencies, any coin that isn't bitcoin they are altcoin, if we have to talk about DeFi it's good to create topics about them but under altcoin discussion section, decentralized Finance is a use case, Centralized finance is a use case too, it doesn't make sense to create sub boards for them

Big brain move ;D. Nice try dude lol. Well, I will give you the benefit of the doubt since you are a member only. Maybe (just maybe) you just not fully understand yet the purpose of Merit System. But yeah, like the others said, having merits doesn't make your thread more visible. This one, and the rest of threads, will go the next pages as new topics are created. But don't worry, it will your thread will remain on top and see by others as long as someone replies.

Anyway, going back to the topic. I also think that creating a sub board for defis is not necessary at all. Did the mods created a sub board when ICOs, IEOs and Airdrops are booming way back on their past times? Of course not. Then what more for Defis. This board is enough and besides the hype train will vanish away eventually.

We're already grateful Altcoins are being discussed here in Bitcointalk.org, everyone knew Defi projects belongs to the Alternate Cryptocurrencies. Defi by definition isn't an altcoin but part of decentralization development when it comes to financial system, its kind of governance. If there is really a board for it I think its the DAOtalk.

If they want to do it, they could have done it long ago but those are not really important because every year projects are evolving and most of the time they create something innovative than the last time but they still belong to the category of Altcoins and maybe next year we will see another trend than what we already have now like Defi. Nevertheless, it is convenient to see such kinds of topics on this board we can classify them anyway if we are avid readers of this board.

OK, I can see that now. The merit system here works differently than I thought. I thought it was like the upvote sysstemon most other platforms.

The more I hear you guys refer to DeFi as an ICO/IEO/AIRDROP equivalent, however, the more I feel the need to for enlightenment on this forum. Many if us are still very confused about the topic of DeFi.

Like someone mentioned above, though, I might have to launch that on my private forum. A blog, maybe.

I beg to differ sir. And with good reason, DeFi is not an altcoin topic

For starters here's a post where
The Bitcoin's Lightning Network is already stress-testing its DeFi pool and preparing for launch (https://btcmanager.com/lightning-labs-new-improved-defi-bitcoin-network)


Here's another report of
RSK's POWPEG being used to facilitate defi on the BTC mailn chain (https://btcmanager.com/rsk-powpeg-ecure-superior-facilitator-bitcoin-defi)

If there aren't even more than a handful of topics on the first few pages of Altcoin boards, then I doubt it.

Better yet, try to find a quality thread in the Altcoin section about DeFi.

Hey admin, give a corner "sarcasm"
It's is the new form of scamming the noobs who have very little idea about crypto but they want to invest in quick money making method. It's another of ICO, IEO trend. So, do you think every scam trend should have a board? No.

You're wrong. DeFi is not a scam trend.

Yes, some unscrupulous elements are presently taking undue advantage of its current hype to perpetrate their thieving acts, but, it still doesn't make the entire DeFi idea eveil. Remember, the 1st real use case of our now beloved Bitcoin was Silk Road. So, is BTC scam?

Most of them are the same as happened to ICO, IEO and others. I assumed that the hype would disappear over time and be replaced by other methods later.

My advice that you might consider is not to force your want and desires to get something when most people don't want it. You may be able to suggest and ask if that is possible or not, but decision will be made if necessary. Altcoin discussion board seems still quite feasible to accommodate discussion ideas about defi because it is part of altcoin, so there is no need to create a sub-board again if there is something new.

People would not say bitcoin is a scam even if it is potentially used in an illegal way. If anything, they would also say that fiat and paper money are a king of scam because their illegal use is higher than bitcoin. I don't know why you're comparing Defi to bitcoin, which obviously doesn't take much hype to remain the king of crypto. Defi, ICO, IEO are project that still need a lot of funds to survive and develop, have you come across bitcoin like that ?

I think new sub forums should be created for long term purposes. So don't be tempted to facilitate something that is temporary.
After all, I'm sure 80% of the threads to be created will be about the announcement of new defi projects and some news about them that are still in the altcoin category.

We already have a DeFi subboard. See here: Scam Accusations (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=83.0)

This thread may give you a brief overview of what's out there: DeFi-Scams - Big All-In-One-Thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5276012.0)

And no - IMHO we don't need another spam board. Leave all this garbage in the Altcoin section, which is nobody reading anyway.

---

This kind of merit begging will rather get you a negative feedback.  ;)

You are not wrong, but your assumption may be wrong. In the long run DeFi won't last and be forgotten by people as it is with ICO and IEO. Even though I didn't make the calculations, I'm sure 90 +% of DeFi project will end badly and end up scam.

The OP may not really suggest the idea, he just want to make a thread that look like a quality thread and get merit.

Unlike much of the ICO stuff from a few years ago, I think that some of the yield farming stuff may have long-term legs. There's a global search for yield, and the fact that you can get substantial yields through crypto is drawing a lot of interest. This may in fact be part of the reason behind the recent BTC price rise.

Even though the yields paid by CeFi services such as BlockFi seem insane, it's actually reasonable due to the high demand and low supply of liquidity, especially in BTC, but also in stablecoins. Your instinct may be to see 6% interest or more and immediately assume that it's a ponzi, but I don't think that this is likely, at least for the major services. I do think that the risks are often underestimated: you're trusting the service itself not to get hacked and not to make stupid trades and go the way of Lehman, and if you're holding stablecoins, you're also trusting the stablecoin issuer.

In addition to dealing in liquidity, some CeFi services are able to offer things like "60% APY" witithout being a Ponzi by implementing something like a covered call options strategy for you, allowing you to sell the unknown and possibly huge ???% upside in BTC's price for a guaranteed lump sum while still holding onto all of BTC's downside risk. They then just market this lump sum options premium as a large "APY".

It seems plausible to me that you could do lending platforms and automated market makers in a decentralized way, and it's probably reasonable for these to provide pretty high yield in return for you providing liquidity. If these things could be done in a decentralized way, that would be very cool, very additive to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, and important for Bitcoin's wider purpose of creating a separate non-fiat economy. However, I haven't looked into the current attempts much at all, and I don't know if anyone has actually achieved anything even approaching real decentralization here. In any case, there are huge risks that the collateral coins fail due to counterparty risk (eg. with stablecoins) or technical risks (eg. 50% attacks). The automation could also be flawed in some way which causes losses.

Staking on any cryptocurrency that is not already established for other reasons aside from staking is super risky. That's basically a sort of ponzi scheme, because although you're going to get the promised nominal amounts of cryptocurrency, everyone is just playing a trading game where everyone attempts to extract as much real value from everyone else participating, with no actual real value being added. (Often these are combined with ICO-type promises of ways that real value could actually be added someday, but in 99% of cases it's total nonsense.)

When I look at something like https://harvest.finance, I'm very confused at how all of these tokens such as FARM and CRV work and interact, how decentralized each component is, what "governance" exists in the tokens, and what risks you're exposed to... My intuitive guess is that every component is actually pretty centralized even if it pretends otherwise, and the end result is quite risky, probably more risky than even the high yields warrant. But I haven't researched it.

If there are several fundamentally-sound, long-term-viable decentralized market making and lending systems, then I think that a DeFi section may actually be warranted, since this sort of thing could be important going forward. Maybe the section for this would go under Dev&Tech and be one of the more serious ones. Are there any actually-serious DeFi systems running? Separately, although I think that it's less valuable, there may be enough buzz around "yield farming" that a section could be warranted for discussing that, maybe under "Altcoin Discussion" and focusing on all strategies for making money via centralized and decentralized yields, discussion of the various risks, but not including announcement threads for specific tokens/services.

Of course there is; we've had interest rates near zero for years.  I don't think a lot of members here even realize how different things look and work when interest rates are near 6%, say.  Hell, way back in the 1970s interest rates were well above that and lots of people were very comfortable with simple banking savings accounts--and yes, I'm aware that inflation was also high back then. 

I don't know a lot about DeFi aside from the crazy profit some folks have made with the yield farming stuff, but some of it just sounds so unbelievable that I'm reluctant to even research it, much less invest money in it.  But I've been wrong so many times before, it's sickening--especially when I'm 90% ignorant about something.

Well there you go, OP.  I hadn't even expected a response from the boss, but there's hope for a DeFi section yet.  It might not be a bad idea at all, especially given that it seems to be so hot right now and apparently different from scammy ICOs.  Aside from the need for moderators, it couldn't hurt to make a section for it I guess.

I'm forced to take a second look at your profile...... And yes, you're the Boss...!

Many ppl have complained, some have sneered, others sweared at me for raising such a request but, yours is about the only carefully thought out response here on this thread! And thank you.

And in fact, I'm emboldened the more to state, without fear or favor, that we definitely need a DEFI SUB-BOARD.

You stated that ".....If these things could be done in a decentralized way, that would be very cool, very additive to the cryptocurrency ecosystem, and important for Bitcoin's wider purpose of creating a separate non-fiat economy..."

Yea, that's it! The key to all things DeFi most people don't seem to grasp. THE BITCOIN's purpose of creating a separate non-fiat ECONOMY!

You've said it all.

This is the real crux of the DeFi phenomenon. The real reason the global Central Banks (and their political overlords) are all flipped restless. They didn't pay us any attention during our ICO/IEO scam craze. No, they knew it won't last. So, why are they all jittery now? Simply because there's something in DeFi that challenges their power balance and comfort zone.
Let us not get carried away with the actions of some miscreants in the space, or undermine the enormity of the opportunity breaking before us.

And I repeat, BitcoinTalk is not just 'one of them' as far as the Bitcoin and blockchain advancement is concerned. This is where it all began. And we can see it clearly now that DeFi is the proper grandchild of the Bitcoin technology. DeFi belongs here, let's prepare a suitable home for her here (even if it means a substantial redesign and rethink of the entire space, she deserves that much), let's bring DeFi home

There are serious projects in the DEFI ecosystem that allow you to earn 6-10% per annum without risks
For example Compound and Aave.
You can use stablecoin (USDT and USDC or DAI) without risk.
The ecosystem will give you part of the profit and reward you with its tokens for use.

The only drawback of these systems is that commissions for depositing and withdrawing funds can be $ 40-60, and if you deposit $ 1000, then $ 40-60 out of $ 100 of profit will be spent on commissions.
I do not like credit projects and do not recommend investing in them, it is much easier to make money on Ethereum hodling. For example, I earned over 500% this year.
Pharming projects that offer 100-1000% profit per year need to be transferred to the HYIP section.
I hope you will make a section for defi projects, because there is very little discussion of serious defi projects due to low profits. Users tend to try to invest in highly profitable projects, which ultimately leads to a loss of funds.

This thread was hot and heated back in DEC '20, I think t still deserve a look in.

There is no need to start this discussion again as majority of the people are not in favor of a separate defi board. If you get the defi board, then you will ask for the NFT board also and you will need boards for every development in the crypto space.

Just remember defi and NFT are all altcoins and already being covered in Altcoins section.  :)

What is "DeFi" really? Bitcoin is the grandfather of all decentralized finance (as we know it). Between that and Ethereum, you don't really need anything else to take control of your own finances. You don't need to stake coins for high yields of other tokens while hoping other people jump into the game after you. That's not what "decentralized finance" actually means. What we're looking at here is a trend that will blow over when people lose interest in it, which is when they realize there's not actually anything behind it. Its basically the HPoS fad repackaged using smart contracts.