Bitcoin Forum

Edit: This has been resolved. It was just a misunderstanding. All the involved accounts have been unlocked. As far as I can see, Betcoin is legit.





Order of events:

1. Majesty tells me about Betcoin.ag EV+ bonus
2. I deposit and start playing, and I win the bonus (while streaming in Discord)
3. Toni (chiefleaks) gets in on the action and hits the smaller bonus
4. I'm KYC suspended, so I complete KYC, and the bonus is credited to my account
5. I put in the withdrawal request after wagering
6. My account gets suspended and is now pending investigation

At first, we were pissed off that our accounts got suspended, but it hit us a bit later - we had all withdrawn from the same casino's hot wallets (flashflip), so the transactions were obviously linked. We get the reply, highlighting this blockchain link. I reply explaining that it came from the same casino's hot wallet.

Now I get an interesting reply from them...
https://gyazo.com/37ec0648fe42dbb06ab36a78fc7d664b

Essentially saying, they don't care where the funds came from: they claim I 'colluded' with the two 'against the other contest participants'. What? Where is the collusion? What terms were violated?

From their email: "There was a limit set on the number of winners of this promo, due to the
potential for many winners. It was designed to get people interested in
the dice game, reward players and bring attention to Betcoin.ag.". This is exactly what happened: Majesty referred me & Toni, new players.

It's not like we're random alts or anything. I'm a crypto gambling YouTuber with 1K subs, and Toni is a famous Instagram page owner with over 50K followers. Majesty and I both did KYC. We are obviously different people. So it makes no sense, it looks like Betcoin is finding a convenient excuse to scam 0.1 BTC.


The terms we were accused of breaking:
https://gyazo.com/3ae27ad727f9017255ec37e8a4703d7c

I'd like to ask: where are the 'unfaithful winnings, arbitrage betting, or forking services'?

And all of the deposits were funded from our own individual flashflip wallets. There is proof of all of this in Discord. Literally every message, every deposit and withdrawal log, all of it is saved.

I asked Betcoin for specifics but they keep directing me to talk to their 'license provider'. My balance has been missing for several days now so I don't really have a choice but to go public. Hopefully they pay what's rightfully mine.

Edit:

Image of the balance being removed: https://gyazo.com/633d63f93f5db48c685b7800e6fe3976

Edit 2:

Brief video explanation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YfirlVlqDg

Every reason Betcoin provided has been debunked, yet they're still adamant on keeping the funds locked.

The following are the results of the investigation of accounts Majesty, StackGod and chiefleaks.

Majesty- Created: 2021-01-19 23:23:46
StackGod- Created: 2021-01-20 21:23:52
Chiefleaks- Created: 2021-01-20 22:13:28

Chiefleaks was funded via blockchain transaction ID d8381086eef9b95d23bc2e649252e8091ea361f40f06a4389448ed4ce80b06af to Betcoin deposit address 3MXXjf9fVNjdt9d64NMbR5QbWXpfSpAwAa. This transaction had the input address bc1qxgvta69hr6hk24wr4qffw0k0pnf3a7a5p5kdjp.

Majesty was funded via blockchain transaction ID 649c4d45c159ebf913713e6ec31b1c3fcc1d5f852c6994af2fb45a4e255fc7da to Betcoin deposit address 3EXUyQziRYQXijUycxo3M5NyexgzGmzDrW. This transaction included the input address bc1qjzjf94rkj7gdzw97xa28gee4jdaxftw9mqt7hx. The second output of this transaction (Change address) was bc1qxgvta69hr6hk24wr4qffw0k0pnf3a7a5p5kdjp (the address which funded chiefleaks).

Bc1qjzjf94rkj7gdzw97xa28gee4jdaxftw9mqt7hx, which funded both of these accounts was funded by the input address bc1qhkjq0v67mvafw9zgpwjf0zj9typ5w64me9w62u via blockchain transaction ID d8aa0373f91a6adf8baa28bb849317267c91a6c680eaf827195572052ac35d8c. This address is a part of the wallet for Root Address 3Lmuywmqv8yJ25KZZSAMS54UjaYz2h3BJp, as shown here:
https://imgur.com/a/0lyDUtI

Wallet 3Lmuywmqv8yJ25KZZSAMS54UjaYz2h3BJp indirectly funded the account StackGod, as shown here.
https://imgur.com/a/aXj6tgk

More importantly, 3Lmuywmqv8yJ25KZZSAMS54UjaYz2h3BJp also contains the address StackGod used to request his first withdrawal to bc1qvelezlgcl57vl4h572peg807d4eq8h7nffsmwm, which was processed via blockchain ID transaction 208c3a29248378f4f797f935563fbc1502b7331214a47e74ffcc1e43c6fd8184.
https://imgur.com/a/Th6Jzua

Here is a diagram, which more simply shows that all accounts were funded by the wallet with root address 3Lmuywmqv8yJ25KZZSAMS54UjaYz2h3BJp and this wallet also received the withdrawal from StackGod.
https://imgur.com/a/72HDZ0M

The activity from when Majesty started attempting to win the promotion until he completed it ran from 2021-01-20 20:09:07 to 2021-01-20 21:13:58.

The activity from when StackGod started attempting to win the promotion until he completed it ran from 2021-01-20 21:35:17 to 2021-01-20 21:59:51.

The activity from when StackGod started attempting to win the promotion until he completed it ran from 2021-01-20 22:31:21 to 2021-01-20 22:42:14.

Each player also played the exact same odds in their attempts to complete this promotion.

In summary, these 3 accounts were created, funded by the same Bitcoin wallet and promotion won using the same strategy, all within 24 hours. There was a limit set on the number of winners of this promo, due to the potential for many winners. It was designed to get people interested in the dice game, reward players and bring attention to Betcoin.ag. We believe that based on the above evidence, these 3 accounts teamed up to exploit the promotion and colluded to win prizes that should be going to legitimate players. Assuming that each account was created by unique individuals, the following terms of service were still violated:
https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoinag-terms-service
10.2 If the player is suspected of fraudulent actions including but not limited to: participating in any type of collusion with other players, development of strategies aimed at unfaithful winnings, arbitrage betting, use of forking services, Use of surebet or valuebet services, fraudulent actions against other online casinos or payment providers, chargeback procedures with a credit card or denial of some payments made, other types of cheating, providing incorrect information about personal data during registration or is known to have gone bankrupt in the country of his residence, the Company reserves the right to terminate the user account and suspend all payouts to the player.
8.7 Accounts must be self-funded. Any accounts found to have the same source of funds will be dealt with per our policy regarding multi-accounting.

The resolution for each account is as follows:
Majesty deposited 0.00052547 BTC (0.52547 mBTC) and his account was reopened to withdraw that amount.
StackGod deposited 0.03 BTC (30 mBTC) and has successfully withdrawn 24 mBTC. Account was reopened to withdraw the additional 6 mBTC from the deposit.
Chiefleaks deposited  0.0018 BTC (1.8 mBTC) and his account was reopened to withdraw this amount.
Each account will be closed once withdrawals are completed.

I really don't understand. Are you just ignoring everything I've said for the last few hours? Please read it carefully, understand what I'm trying to say.

Actually, I'll just make a video with evidence of exactly what transpired in the public Discord, maybe you guys will understand the situation better then. (https://discord.gg/bustabit)

Regarding this specific player, the bonus funds were subject to a 3x rollover, based on the lesser of the risk/win amount.
https://www.betcoin.ag/are-you-lucky-1-dice-promotion-win-1111x-your-bet-every-spin
He had completed 0.1% of the rollover at the time he was deemed ineligible to participate in this promotion.
He has been asked multiple times to withdraw his deposit.

Edit: We had 12 winners paid without issue for this promotion. We have no reason to randomly withhold payouts from these 3.

Uploaded a quick explanation of what happened, easier to show rather than taking screenshots and typing it all out

Please try to understand the real situation, thanks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YfirlVlqDg

I find Betcoin's reasoning for our suspensions pretty contradicting if you ask me.
They say the promotion was ran to attract new players (which was clearly successful, myself and Stack got refered to the website by another user, Majesty) yet they suspend us for taking part in said promotion?

Betcoin is trying to say that we still broke 2 rules:


10.2: "If the player is suspected of fraudulent actions including but not limited to: participating in any type of collusion with other players, development of strategies aimed at unfaithful winnings, arbitrage betting, use of forking services, Use of surebet or valuebet services, fraudulent actions against other online casinos or payment providers, chargeback procedures with a credit card or denial of some payments made, other types of cheating, providing incorrect information about personal data during registration or is known to have gone bankrupt in the country of his residence, the Company reserves the right to terminate the user account and suspend all payouts to the player."

8.7: "Accounts must be self-funded. Any accounts found to have the same source of funds will be dealt with per our policy regarding multi-accounting."

Rule 10.2 not applying to us can be concluded from the simple fact that there is literally no way to develop strategies that are aimed at unfaithful winning (the game is provably fair, right?) as each player has the exact same odds of achieving the required result to partake in the promotion. We all just used the minimum requirements to be eligible for the reward. Collusion also doesn't come to mind due to the simple fact that, again, there's no way to "secretly" or "illegaly" cooperate to take advantage of what is already an extremely EV+ promotion. Other parts of this rule do not apply to us whatsoever.

Rule 8.7 not applying to us also has a simple explanation. The accounts were self funded. The fact that we all deposited to betcoin from the same casino (which has a hot wallet the funds are sent out from, like many casinos do) can be pure coincidence and I'm sure has happened to many people before, not just on betcoin but other websites too.

All 3 of us have gotten an email saying we are allowed to withdraw our initial deposits, after which our accounts would be permanently suspended.
I feel like this is extremely unprofessional behavior from a (from what I've heard) reputable casino.

To be honest, Toni, I'm hoping it's all just a big misunderstanding, and that they're not really scammers with malicious intent. I really hope some of their reps hop into the Discord to see exactly what went down.

1:47 "Toni takes a loan, I believe"

This promotion was not a team event. We haven't taken anything from any of you. We just determined that you were ineligible for this promo. Everyone is receiving what they deposited to play.


We see that you have already received this.

...So what if Toni took a loan? He took it from an entirely different Discord user, not even one of us (which you can see if you hopped into the Discord)

And no, that's not how it works. I deposited my funds, risked my money, won the bonus - you can't now say 'we find you ineligible and we're returning your deposit'. If I lost instead, you guys sure as fuck wouldn't have refunded me. I clearly WAS eligible - the funds were in my account. You debited them for this laundry list of reasons, each of which have been thoroughly debunked. The ONLY correct course of action now is for you to return that stolen 0.1. Or provide a VALID reason. Not just 'we deem you ineligible because we want to'.

The account, Chiefleaks, was funded by this transaction
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/d8381086eef9b95d23bc2e649252e8091ea361f40f06a4389448ed4ce80b06af

The input address on that is bc1qxgvta69hr6hk24wr4qffw0k0pnf3a7a5p5kdjp

The account Majesty was funded by this transaction
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/649c4d45c159ebf913713e6ec31b1c3fcc1d5f852c6994af2fb45a4e255fc7da

The output address is bc1qxgvta69hr6hk24wr4qffw0k0pnf3a7a5p5kdjp

These are private wallets

Again, there is a simple explanation to all of this.

"This promotion was not a team event. We haven't taken anything from any of you. We just determined that you were ineligible for this promo. Everyone is receiving what they deposited to play."

All 3 of us are individual players trying out a casino we've found with a nice EV+ promotion.

The fact that I took a small loan to partake in said promotion has no relation to this case whatsoever. The person who has given me the loan has no relation to anything that happened here.

"We see that you have already received this."

Yes, I've said this in a fit of rage after basically losing out on $400 I've earned by legitimately partaking in, again, a promotion that was created to attract new players (in this case, us 3)

As Stack said, we understand this might look suspicious but at the end of the day we haven't done anything wrong. Upon any of us debunking anything you claim we've done you just double down on the same thing you just said without taking any arguments into consideration.

When they created an account or what they had in common in terms of betting pattern or activity in your site makes no value for us forum members. However, the above quoted blockchain transactions are enough to conclude that all three accounts are either the same person's or three individual users'. Imagine a friend had bitcoin and other do not know how to handle bitcoin. The friend who has bitcoin can help them. Baseds considering these transactions we can not say that StackGamblerm is giving us wrong information too about his friends accounts. The accounts can be owned by them friends.

But your policy:
What is your multi-account policy? I assume suspending the account with refunding the deposit or both winnings and deposits?
If this is only refunding the deposit then we are fine since you already asked them to get the refund. But if this is both winnings and deposits then you need to give their winnings too.

However, since you had these blockchain evidences, and you are refunding the deposits suspecting/knowing they violated term 8.7 then why did you KYCed them? I see this step has no use at all.

Anyway, @StackGamblerm this seems very straight forward case to me buddy if we consider their term 8.7
Unfortunately for you Betcoin.ag gets the edge here if you want to take my opinion.

Edit: Srtikethrough after spotting a service they are talking about.

What exactly do you mean private wallets?

I told you, they came from flashflip. A Discord casino. It has a singular hot wallet. This can easily be proven. At least, if we can stop moving the goalposts for a second...

We all got KYC'd. We literally live across the world from each other. We have thousands upon thousands of Discord messages proving that we're different people. The bonus was credited to me, I was allowed to wager it (heck, I even lost 0.01 BTC of it at one point). I was only stopped at the point of withdrawal, and my account was suddenly locked.

And like I said, it can easily be proven that these were flashflip withdrawals. I showed you Toni's and my transaction from flashflip. Majesty probably isn't online right now but she can show it too.

One minute, I though this is a type of wallet. If this is a service and coins are coming from their hot/cold wallet (a common wallet) then it's a different argument. You need to prove that if was a service wallet. Unfortunately I have no idea about this flashflip thing.

For sure. All the proof is right there in Discord, and I'll attach some screenshots too.

Screenshot of me divesting and withdrawing from flashflip: https://gyazo.com/83672b28b871c5117fe3eeae8ac9d159 (https://discord.com/channels/460311040257818625/790609584272310322/801563639760945192)
Screenshot of toni getting the 2,000 bits loan from frostynut: https://gyazo.com/b4ff17a23b0eb29e7f1b62d1b2a8f644 (https://discord.com/channels/460311040257818625/790609584272310322/801574976633307166)
Screenshot of toni's flashflip withdrawal in DMs: https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/790609584272310322/803721743151530014/unknown.png

You can click the Discord links to verify that they're real (once you're in the bustabit server).

Well, Royse777, to put it simply: Flashflip is a Discord based casino with a bankroll of over $40,000 and well over $8,000,000 wagered with all the features any other casino has, including provably fair, etc.

You can read more about it here: https://www.flashcrash.io/

Please provide me chat log or any other way to see the conversations which will have no doubt that it was not altered. For example: Record a screencast or give account credentials in private if you trust me enough with your privacy. I will give my best to investigate.

Sorry I do not have a discord account and really do not want to have all the hassles of creating one. If anyone else who are trusted to check it from their account then I will take their words.

Sure thing, I understand!

Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5BT71nlr6c

It is common policy among Bitcoin casinos that accounts cannot be funded from the same private wallets. This rule is in place primarily to prevent multi-accounting. With the prevalence of VPN (many undetectable), it is no longer as easy as "same IP, same guy." The blockchain is one fingerprint used in determining the unique identity of someone. Saying that a friend with Bitcoin can help them is great in theory, but it is comparable to saying that the other login from my IP is from my roommate. It doesn't guarantee a multi-accounter, but is one tool that is used in taking steps towards a resolution. We also detailed several other ways that the accounts are related in out initial reply, which have been confirmed by OP.

We will answer both of these here:
https://www.betcoin.ag/support/betcoinag-terms-service
7.1 Each player can create only one personal user account. There can be no more than 1 account created per household. Creating multiple user accounts will lead to termination of the accounts. All betting accounts you try to open may be blocked or closed and any bets may be voided. Depending on the severity of the case Betcoin.ag holds the right to withhold or take any funds deposited to pay for damages and/or the prevention of future misconduct.
The KYC was used as a way of determining the severity of the offense.

We understand that a service wallet was involved here. However, the service wallet funded a private wallet, part of which was used to fund Majesty's Betcoin account, part of which was sent to another private wallet, which was used to fund Chiefleak's Betcoin account.
https://imgur.com/a/RrGwjVR

Well, I literally just proved that it came from flashflip. We are all three different people from three different households. There is no valid reason whatsoever to steal the bonus balances.

What does this even mean? lol

Let's see here.

"It is common policy among Bitcoin casinos that accounts cannot be funded from the same private wallets."
I've been gambling with Bitcoin for several years and this is the first time I hear something like this.

"This rule is in place primarily to prevent multi-accounting. With the prevalence of VPN (many undetectable), it is no longer as easy as "same IP, same guy.""
You forcefully KYC'ed 2 of the 3 people involved, giving them a 60 minute timeframe which is, again, something I've never heard before.

"Each player can create only one personal user account."
None of us have broken this rule.

"There can be no more than 1 account created per household."
Again, none of us broke this rule.

"Creating multiple user accounts will lead to termination of the accounts."
Yet again, none of us broke this rule.

"We understand that a service wallet was involved here."
It's called a hot wallet. Used in most, if not all reputable Bitcoin casinos, and in no way should be used as proof for anything like this.

Thanks StackGambler, pretty convincing however give me time before I give you any more input. I still need to understand other things with Betcoin.AG. This could be a misunderstanding from Betcoin.AG and I do not want to hurry up in anything. There are other members too who will have their views too after their own investigations. So please be patience.

I need to spend much time in this about the private wallet we are talking here (Sorry not much idea about this diagram, old school lol). I will get back to you in the next 24 hours (once I get time to spend enough time to clear my thoughts). Sorry, at first it seemed very straight forward case to me but it seems it's not anymore.

Right - the video does clear it up pretty well imo. I also think it's just a misunderstanding.

This is simply how casinos work. Deposits go to a singular hot wallet, and withdrawals are made using the same inputs. Sure, some advanced casinos (like bustabit) are really good at masking all of this, but flashflip uses zero privacy whatsoever. It's literally just a Bitcoin node. Moreover, every user account only has a single deposit address - you can't even generate new ones.

This may help with the diagram.
The account, Chiefleaks, was funded by this transaction
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/d8381086eef9b95d23bc2e649252e8091ea361f40f06a4389448ed4ce80b06af
The input address on that is bc1qxgvta69hr6hk24wr4qffw0k0pnf3a7a5p5kdjp
The account Majesty was funded by this transaction
https://www.blockchain.com/btc/tx/649c4d45c159ebf913713e6ec31b1c3fcc1d5f852c6994af2fb45a4e255fc7da
The output address is bc1qxgvta69hr6hk24wr4qffw0k0pnf3a7a5p5kdjp

We agree that it could be a misunderstanding, but it doesn't seem like it so far. Chiefleaks, you are a part of this conversation. The funds you received to deposited to Betcoin came directly from whom?

Perhaps our diagrams aren't clear, but we understand where your funds came from. It is our belief that this is not the case with one of the members of your group.

You understand the risk/win part of the rollover now, right?

Yep, I understand the rollover part

I'll get Toni/Frostnut/Majesty to come on and post their deposit addresses. I've also DM'd Jason.

We have returned your seized funds and you are eligible to complete the rollover and withdraw.

We still believe that the other 2 members of the group have funded their account from the same private wallet, and we have shown evidence backing this up. If either of them disputes this, we will review.

"We agree that it could be a misunderstanding, but it doesn't seem like it so far. Chiefleaks, you are a part of this conversation. The funds you received to deposited to Betcoin came directly from whom?"

Sure thing, I'd love to explain it thoroughly.

After seeing what your website and promotion was all about, it obviously sparked major interest and resulted in me opening my own account.

I've had no Bitcoin at the time so I ended up taking a loan worth 2 mBTC (2,000 bits on Flashflip) from unrelated user Frostynut.

As seen in this screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/3dgCgYT.png ; the 2 mBTC (2,000 bits) were tipped to me by said user, Frostynut.

This screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/v4r1uwv.png ; shows me sending a screenshot to Frostynut, the user who loaned me, which shows me sending them back their 2,5 mBTC (2,500 bits), and them confirming recieving said amount.

When it comes to Frostynut and where the money he loaned me came from, it's pretty simple. He deposited his own funds into the casino, won a fair amount and decided to loan it out instead of continuing to play.

This screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/Ib1zQau.png ; shows I withdrew the 2 mBTC (2,000 bits) from Flashflip directly to Betcoin (the amount being lower due to network fees.

I will record a video of all of this as well to avoid any claims that the information provided is false.

Thank you very much. Can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

I'll go wager, withdraw, and will edit the thread a bit later

<3

Is there a blockchain transaction ID for this loan? Or if the funds are transferred internally, what is the blockchain transaction ID of your withdrawal? Your account was funded by a wallet with 1.2 mBTC. It is possible the fees ate the rest, but there would have to be a transaction where this happened.

I am majesty

I made a withdraw from the discord bot Flashflip you can see the screenshot here:
https://ibb.co/yBvCjxD (https://ibb.co/yBvCjxD)

You can see the transaction id that was attached to the withdraw.
I was kyced to get the prize as well so this should be clear that im not in the wrong here.

"Is there a blockchain transaction ID for this loan? Or if the funds are transferred internally, what is the blockchain transaction ID of your withdrawal? Your account was funded by a wallet with 1.2 mBTC. It is possible the fees ate the rest, but there would have to be a transaction where this happened."

Yes, I've edited the post and included the ID of my withdrawal. Me going through the information provided in previous post can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdUNZzQifzk

Thank you for the clarification.  We have to admit our ignorance in the way this bot works. Normally, if you are withdrawing from the service to Betcoin, that is 1 transfer, without hops in between. Very interesting stuff.

We have reopened both other accounts. Majesty, you can continue working on your rollover. Chiefleaks, you have been credited your winnings and can get started. Please let us know if we can assist further.

Welp, that does it for me. No doubt in my mind that you guys are as legit as it gets. It really just was a misunderstanding after all :)

Thanks, and I hope you guys do more of these contests - I'll definitely come play

I'll edit the post's title and body. Or would you prefer I delete it entirely?

Awesome work all of you and Betcoin.ag.
Interesting flashflip wallets, I had no idea how it works LOL

You can edit the title and replace it with something like:
"Betcoin.ag Scam [SOLVED]: Removed funds from my account for bogus reasons"

You can not delete a topic unfortunately.

All of you good luck and again good job Betcoin.ag for solving this very quick, in fact the quickest ever I have involved with any accusation topic :-D

Whatever you think is best (Please at least lock and mark resolved :) )

We are going to contact you privately, as well, because we are considering turning this promotion into a regular event and believe you could assist with the numbers. Thanks again to all parties for your patience while this was resolved.

Cool!

Mods, feel free to delete. This is resolved.