Bitcoin Forum

Bit coiners always be like:

"Bruh, fiat money is worthless and gonna collapse. Get bit coin bruh"

Okay, so what will bit coin be worth when fiat is worthless?

Can any coiner honestly answer how your shitcoin has value if the fiat money it's valued on is worthless?

It's hilarious because no bit coiner can ever answer this question.

Imagine the following scenario:

-world economy crashes
-ALL FIAT dollars are worth ZERO. 0
-bit coin is worth literally nothing because the money that gave it value is gone
-coiner walks into gun dealer and says "I want a gun, I got my bit coins"
-Gun Dealer LOLZ in his face cause bit coin is worth 0
-coiner goes home and kills himself.

It is Bitcoin, not Bit coin.  Noob.  You know nothing.  Stick around and READ.  Maybe in a few months you might be able to contribute something of value.

Ahora he estado operando en mxc durante el aumento de bitcoin. Seguro y eficiente.

I'd rather stick to the subjective theory of value which basically says things got their value out of people's need or desire for it. Man, Bitcoin may be a worthless piece of shit to you. But tell that to the millions of unbanked people, to millionaires and billionaires around the world trying to keep their wealth's worth, and to the richest man on this planet who finds Bitcoin a sort of a refuge in the face of a fiat currency which offers nothing but negative real interest.^[1] If you say Bitcoin is worthless without fiat, then perhaps you need to go back to the start and try to get the tiniest of inkling about it.

[1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1362600676174557186

That's a possibility. But, that's why you should hold other hedge like gold and silver.

I can answer that question.

The answer is that you are confused. The value of a bitcoin is measured by fiat. It is not based on fiat.

If fiat collapses, what will the value of a gun be? According to you, a gun would be worthless because "the fiat money it's valued on is worthless". But it is not.

Bitcoin is the same as the gun. One of the main features of Bitcoin is that it is a currency whose value is independent of other currencies.

Bit coin has no intrinsic value. It's only valuable right now because people are willing to pay fiat for it. If fiat goes to 0, so will bit coin.

Bitcoin is possible option for hedge and not the only one. It may work, may not, thats simple. People are here for easy money and not for hedging

So, if fiat collapses, then what will be used to pay for a gun? According to you, it couldn't be precious metals because they are also only valuable right now because people are willing to pay fiat for them.

Also, the Venezuelan bolívar has basically gone to 0, but the value of a bitcoin in Venezuela has not gone to 0. So, how do you know that if fiat goes to 0, so will bitcoin?

https://i.imgur.com/dgzoTex.pngSo, I wanted to give my own direct answer but it seems the owner of Binance answered this recently. The only people who think crytpo can't stand without fiat are those who change their crypto to fiat. The more there's adoption, the more you'd see how independent Bitcoin is / can be.

I don't think you know what that word means.

The bitcoin protocol provides many things that we humans value, therefore it can be said that it has "intrinsic value" to humans.

Although, all value is subjective. In the end, if humans didn't exist, NOTHING would have value, therefore nothing actually has "intrinsic value".

So, regardless of which concept of "intrinsic" you want to use, your statement carries no meaning.


You've got that one backward.  People are only willing to pay fiat for it BECAUSE it is valuable.  People don't pay FIAT for things that don't have value.

You'll find that many people are willing to exchange products or services in exchange for bitcoin. This will continue regardless of whether or not they are willing to exchange their local government currency for it.


Which fiat?  U.S. Dollar? Euro? Peso? Yen? Bolivar?

If one fiat currency collapses, and others don't, then wouldn't Bitcoin still have value in those other currencies?  If it still has value in those other currencies, and the local currency does not, then can't it be used for international trade? If it can be used for international trade, then won't it be valuable to anyone that imports (or exports) products or services?  If it is valuable to anyone that imports (or exports) products or services, then won't it be valuable to anyone that engages in any business with someone that imports (or exports) products or services? If it is valuable to anyone that engages in business with someone that imports (or exports) products or services, then won't it be valuable to anyone that engages in any business with that person?  Doesn't this mean that it will carry value in the local community? Doesn't that mean that it will continue to carry value regardless of what happens to the local currency?

The reason you don't understand whats going on here is due to the fact you are confusing value with price.    Example.   Does the air you breath have value?  What does it cost in fiat?   Price and value are Not related.  Price is An Attempt to Value something.   So if fiat hits zero does bitcoin have value still?   

Why yes it would due to the fact that while its price may Move around,  its Value is intrinsic to its nature as decentralized, fairly anonymous, and currently unhackable and of limited amount so you can't keep printing it more of it when ever you decide to.  If anything its value would probably go up.

When will bitcoin be valueless? is a better question.   I can attempt that one.   When the internet goes down for good that includes all forms of LAN Bluetooth and WIFI Laser and radio communications.

Again, Bitcoin isn't based on fiat, it's measured against fiat. The fact that people are willing to pay for it simply means that it's valuable as others have said. And even if Fiat goes to 0, the trust built up on the system of fiat is completely different from the trust built up by Bitcoin, and that's what makes it valuable, compared to those that have intrinsic value themselves. The only situation where Bitcoin would have no intrinsic value is when the people using it deemed it to be useless.

consider the bread loaf value(cost of living)

currently $2.50. 0.00004630 (1btc = 2160 loafs)

if a loaf hyper inflated to $250. then bitcoin buying 2160 loaves still = 1btc for $5,400,000

Slight problem, if hyper inflation occurs, this also inflates the price of electricity.

HYPER INFLATED ELECTRICITY IS A BITCOIN KILLER.

Bitcoin Miners in Texas all quit mining during the cold snap that hit Texas.

With the Power Off, bitcoin users in Texas admitted bitcoin was worthless to them during the power outages.
No power, No bitcoin. Heat & electricity & water & food was more valuable.

I completely agree.  But I would like to point out something in this case.   Did they "lose" their bitcoins?  No they did not.   They made a local decision that heat food and water had more value then the crypto.   Was it the right decision? Yes.  Did it Prove that bitcoin was better worst neutral then fiat?  yes no maybe?   Value equations like this do not prove or disprove the value of trade or representations of trade.   

Its situational, always will be .  Bitcoin offers AN option.  Its Not the do all end all.  Its a modern tech solution for problems that are Not snow storm related. 

Hyper inflation of electricity Does present a real problem.  Miners tend to move where its cheaper.  To me the solution is more and cheaper electricity.  That's a separate problem though.

What makes you think that bitcoin can't work for tulips or gold if fiat goes away?

I know exactly what you mean. Cryptocurrency thrives off of the fact that it is easily convertible into fiat based currency's (depending on where you live). I fear if banks ever decided that they were no longer able accept cryptocurrency transactions through their medium, then a lot of people would be stuck holding worthless bags. If you had $1 million worth of cryptocurrency, and the banks within your country stop dealing in cryptocurrency exchanges OUTRIGHT, what would you do?

Trade it for gold and then exchange that for cash.

Please pay attention to Bitcoin price movements during a pandemic, where fiat values are falling. While Bitcoin is getting stronger,  it even reaches
a price of $ 58k this year. It all proves that Bitcoin's value is independent of fiat, and don't compare the two. Because for me fiat and Bitcoin are
two different things. Therefore, now many institutions are investing in Bitcoin, meaning Bitcoin has a good value.

Isn't that how fiat got its value too? If there were ever a collapse, billionaires and the people that are controlling the market will try to curtail the total collapse and I don't think that they will consider bitcoin because they know that ordinary people will have power if they were to consider bitcoin as a store of value in the event of collapse. I mean OP is somewhat right, bitcoin is basing its value on USD or other fiat currencies but if a collapse were to happen, I don't think bitcoin will be the first thing that will come to the minds of the people who needs to survive everyday.

You are confusing price and value which are two different concepts, before people created money they bartered among themselves and exchanged their assets for others, then the best asset out of all of them won, most of the time precious metals, and then when coinage was developed money was finally created, if fiat currencies collapse the question we should ask is will people still be willing to exchange bitcoin for other assets? And the answer is yes, when a currency collapses the most valuable thing in the world is a form of money that is not collapsing, so gold and silver should become extremely valuable during that event and bitcoin will follow a similar pattern.

Fiat money aren't worthless.Fiat money have decreasing value(inflation).There's a big difference.
The value of Bitcoin is measured in fiat money,it is NOT valued in fiat money.Can you understand the difference?
OK,I see that you are a BTC hater.If Bitcoin is a shitcoin,then what coin do you propose to replace Bitcoin?
Have you invented an altcoin,that is better than BTC?Are you a fiat money fan?If yes,what are you going in this forum?Spreading FUD and trolling?

In my opinion, that will be the “big test”, and it’s only possible during a situation when the Fed has lost control of the monetary system, a phase of hyperinflation. It’s obvious sellers of goods, and services WON’T accept fiat during this phase, BUT will they accept Bitcoin? I believe without anything else, or any other back up/fall-back, the answer is yes.

Somehow, yeah, but fiat has a different case as it is a legal tender. You cannot not accept fiat, even if you find its concept a total garbage. That's what a legal tender means. Therefore, it is always understandable that Bitcoin is also priced according to fiat. But it doesn't mean its value is solely derived from fiat. In the first place, Bitcoin got value in terms of fiat because it has qualities worth giving value to.

You are probably correct that billionaires whose wealth are partially stored in fiat will try to save fiat from total collapse. However, they also understand things and probably have a very good sense of foresight. They diversify. In the words of Elon Musk, they're no fools and that they look elsewhere to store their value in the face of a fiat giving off negative real interest.^[1] It so happened that Bitcoin is one of those alternatives which caught their radar. So you are wrong when you said that the billionaires won't consider Bitcoin.

And you are probably also wrong with your reasoning that billionaires won't consider Bitcoin because ordinary people will have power... They don't care because they can have as much Bitcoin, and therefore power, as they want. Whatever ordinary mortals consider valuable they can own and hoard a lot.

Finally, as to this "I don't think bitcoin will be the first thing that will come to the minds of the people who needs to survive everyday," we can only look for a case in real life, somewhere where fiat has already started to collapse, and it seems Bitcoin has indeed gained value there.^[2][3]

[1] https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1362600676174557186
[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/23/opinion/sunday/venezuela-bitcoin-inflation-cryptocurrencies.html
[3] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-47553048

There are in fact scenarios in which fiat can become useless, like what happens during hyperinflation, and people decide to not accept it despite its status as a legal tender, however we must be honest, this is not something that happens too frequently but when it happens most of the time people get completely wiped out since most of their savings are in fiat currencies and their debts are valued in fiat money as well, so they not only lose their wealth in fiat but they also lose their properties as a result of this and the only ones that do well are the ones holding gold and in this case bitcoin as well.