Bitcoin Forum

I sent my son some BTC from my Trezor 1 to his Electrum wallet.

Have checked mempool for my transaction and see I made a massive error in setting fees at er..... 7.1 sat/vbyte! on April 16th. Default fees were at ~14% so I reduced them, mistake I know. Estimated time was 1 day & 22 hours which was OK. Next block is average at ~272 sat/vbyte.

The tsx showed up in his electrum wallet as unconfirmed for two days then disappeared and now shows no such tsx.

My Trezor still shows the unconfirmed tsx. Mempool shows TSXs under 19 sat/Vbyte being purged and this figure is rising daily.

Now been five days and not sure if it will be unconfirmed for weeks or if it will be returned to Trezor. Not using Suite and can't see anyway of increasing fee or using RBF. So actually I can't do anything except wait and see what happens.

I think I'm seeing the current block with sat/vbyte ranging from 1 - 146, average 132. What happens to the 1 sat/vbyte TSXs? do they remain 'unconfirmed' or purged?

Has this TSX been purged or is that yet to come? mempool says ETA - in several hours or more.

Lesson learned - check mempool delay and fee rate.

If my understanding of the above is wrong please let me know, not sure about posting the TSX ID, is that OK?
Thanks
Edward

Purged from the mempool. Note that miners can include any valid transactions that they want and will often include some low fee transaction due to either them being paid or the transactions being their own. Even if the transaction gets purged from the node's mempool, miners who has seen it can still potentially (though very very unlikely) include it in their mined block.
Purged.

Your understanding is on point, you can post the TXID if you want but that'll result in some loss of privacy.

I've never used Trezor's suite but I'll assume that they do not purge the transactions themselves. If you were to use Trezor with some other client, Electrum for example, it should not appear or will appear as a Local transaction and you can remove that and resend again.

Thanks,

Currently using Trezor's Wallet and Bridge I see no options to do anything with this TSX. AFAIK Suite is going to replace Wallet which gives options to bump & RBF. Will have to migrate to Suite at some point.

For the moment it's just a waiting game for it to be returned? Purged to me means it's been removed and will not be processed?
Edward

It really depends on your wallet behavior. Does you wallet actually check the mempool if its purged? (Perhaps someone who uses Trezor can chime in) If it doesn't, it'll probably be stuck at unconfirmed and it won't be removed automatically.

It is hard to say whether it would get confirmed or not. The transaction is still valid and the miners can still include it in their block if they want. The main difference right now is that if you were to be able to create a transaction spending the same inputs right now, it won't get rejected and have a good propagation, hence a good chance of a confirmation as well. I'd recommend you to try to switch to another wallet instead.

Connect your Ledger to Electrum and give it a minute to finish syncing. If the transaction shows as "unconfirmed", try accelerating it by right clicking on it then select "bump". Note that bumping is only possible if the transaction has been flagged as "rbf".
If Electrum doesn't show the transaction, that means it has been removed from the mempool and you can recreate it from scratch, set higher fees then broadcast it.

I recommended Electrum here because it makes bumping fees, literally, as easy as a click of a button.

I suggest you next time use your Trezor to connect with Electrum so that you have full control of your transaction just like this one you can't able to do anything. If you are in Trezor with Electrum you can able to bump the fee or CPFP or double-spend to fix this issue.

Do you still have the transaction link?

Try to submit it here https://www.viabtc.com/tools/txaccelerator?lang=en_US
And maybe it can help to speed up the transaction.

That won't work... the OP's original transaction only had a fee of 7.1 sats/vbyte... so it will be below the 10 sat/byte threshold that ViaBTC have on their accelerator (nevermind the fact that the accelerator is almost impossible to use at the moment :-\ )

The lesson learned is to use a well-programmed wallet, like Electrum You will be able to fully control your fees, cancel the transaction by creating a new transaction with higher fees or use RBF.
you can ask your son to use Child-Pays-For-Parent and again he need to have a well-programmed wallet since spending from an unconfirmed input is something that most wallets do not support.

Relying on fee estimates may give you the wrong result because you see what is happening now and in the past and not what will happen

Thanks.

Checked another site last night and it was sitting 148 blocks from top of mempool. This morning it's 141. It is marked as Segwit but not rbf.

Trezor say it will either get confirmed or returned.

Found someone else with similar problem, they set a 1 Sat/byte fee and sent BTC 28th January!! still unconfirmed today.

However, mempool says that tsx was first seen 12th April and is now 240 blocks below top of mempool. Does that mean it was removed and re-queued so to speak? Same tsxid.

Still trying to learn the trezor one using the web wallet, Suite is only beta at present but I will eventually be forced over to Suite which has more functionality and can bump & rbf.

Will sit it out for time being and reply if/when it's confirmed or returned.
Edward

There is no queue system in mempool. The transaction is most likely not in any node's mempool**. The estimation is based solely on the number of the blocks needed:

1. If there are no new transactions
2. The miner strictly fills the block based on the fee rates.

Neither is true so it is an inaccurate estimation. If it doesn't get purged from a specific node's mempool for some reason, then it would just linger in the mempool until it gets purged for being in the mempool for an extended period of time.

** Which is also why I don't think it has a chance for a confirmation at all.

An update. Have been checking mempool/space frequently for two weeks and watching the sats/vbyte rate dropping. 11.34 BST today the tx received a timestamp and now has 5 confirmations. Tx has taken 16 days due to me setting a low fee rate.

Lesson for me - check current average fee rates before doing a tx.

Eddy

Also, next time, if you think that your transaction is taking so much time to confirmed, you can try to rebroadcast it to the network once a day, there are lots of free service/website offer such feature.

Thanks, forgot to mention I used BTCnitro to rebroadcast the tx once the purge limit was below my fee rate. Not entirely sure if being way below the purge rate for ~10 days meant it had been purged/removed and would never be confirmed or If it would be confirmed eventually anyway.

Once I have to migrate to Trezor Suite I have more options, RBF and Native Segwit I believe. Not keen on being a beta Suite guinea pig. Web wallet gives no options at all other than to sit it out and 'wait for the funds to be returned' as Trezor say.
Eddy

Glad to hear your transaction got finally confirmed.
Other than checking the network status and the average fee rates on mempool.space or any other similar service, you should also flag your transactions as rbf so you can bump the fees whenever needed.

Each node has its own mempool custom settings which may differ from the settings of other nodes. If no block explorer can find your unconfirmed transaction then mist likely it will never confirm unless you keep rebraodcasting it.

As said, each node has its own configuration about the minimum fee. While this sounds simple, it may be tricky if you enter a relatively low fee. If a block explorer runs a node that will accept 100 sats in total for keeping your transaction in its mempool, it doesn't mean that it'll be the same for every other node. The more nodes it reaches the more chances of being confirmed and thus, you should increase your fees. Not only for priority, but for a better transaction spread across the network.

That being said, your transaction was probably kept in the mempool of few nodes. You should be aware of that in the future and enable RBF.

This case is only for extreme cases when the "size" of the mempool has grown very big not just because fees are high. Each node has a fixed amount of memory a percentage of which it dedicates to running a full node and some portion of that memory goes to its mempool.
As long as the total mempool size is not extremely big (I'd say anything below 300 MB is OK) and the tx fee is at least 1 sat/vbyte it will be propagated.