Bitcoin Forum

Just want to put this out there. What is the problem with crypto mining and energy consumption? Yes, I know you'll raise environment concerns, I get it.

However, consider this: a civilisation is measured by its energy consumption. Before we discovered fire and used any stone tools, the only energy we had was whatever our bodies produced. Then we discovered fire, made tools, invented the wheel, etc. Until now, when we use computers, robots and other machines to help us live. Our life expectancy and quality of life has increased dramatically.

Shouldn't we concentrate our efforts on using clean renewable energy, rather than restrict our use of it?

Frankly, if there is a problem with too much energy consumption, we should go back and live in caves, and hunt in groups.

I don't know why this has suddenly been an issue to burn the whole market down so drastically, crypto mining and energy has always been this way since from day 1, anytime you read about how btc is mined you read about the energy and the way it affects the environment and all, why coming from Elon Musk becomes something new when it is not! We are still very immature in this space.

Same here, light and energy are infinite and yes thanks to science things are more easier for human beings now so I don't see the reason why this is an issue, im already using green energy in my home for years now and my mining farm is running on solar panels and backup only, maybe the war against BTC mining is on already?

Probably cos many idiots and clowns are ready to follow this new crypto Messiah called Elon Musk who actually know nothing about crypto and blockchain, there are large numbers of people that just like bowing and following the rich and their words

If Elon thinks that BTC mining is bad for the environment then he should release his own version of BTC and named it Green BTC or something, I'm pretty sure this man will end up the way that McAfee did, he his getting outta control and he doesn't know it

Miners already use renewable resources: hydro, wind and solar, from big to small mining farms. I agree that this environmental friendly mining is not popular and big enough but why so serious?

If coal supply is here, on this planet, people will use it for many use cases, from mining to other activities in society. The same source of coal will be used, burnt without Bitcoin mining.

When the supply of coal is less and the technology for renewable resources become more popular, feasible, people exclusively miners will use it more. Mining farms if possible can set up mix energy supply from coal and renewable resources for day and night time.

Yes, but how sustainable is growth going to be? On what rate and how much can we keep providing renewable energy when the usage grows potentially exponentially? If we can actually have a PoS solution, why not explore that (and i know we are but i am responding to your question) instead and actually contribute to growth solution. Currently we are shooting ourselves in the foot and blaming the bullet manufacturers should just make only rubber bullets.

I am also confused by Elon Musk's way of thinking so that he said BTC mining is bad for the environment, even though the assembly of mining machines only uses electricity without having to emit smoke like a factory in general.

Elon must read what you've said. He's too concern about the energy consumption of the miners but his business is more rotating with the usage of energy. We're not going back to the past and energy consumption in every place and in every industry. That's what they're forgetting. I don't understand these people that are bringing up the issue about energy being used by the miners as if it's the only money making machine that does that.

It's a matter of which one are you sacrificing for scalability and the energy consumption. IMO if you do believe that PoS is the future, then you can make a fork and encourage others to do so. I believe some people already do this but I don't know which one has enough support. In the end it lacks incentive and the solution is centralized, leaving some users to trust the validators without enough control.

Amen.

I would say that, yes, we are far from being efficient or optimal but efforts are being made alas not at the speed we'd like to see but at least we're heading in the right direction. No breaking technology is perfect from first time, it needs many reiterations time and time again and the energy problem is one that we do need to address with more renewable and sustainable energy sources. All work in progress...

Confuse me if I'm wrong but I've never heard about a small town that loses people to some kind of new sickness caused by bitcoin mining or have you? Bitcoin mining have been ongoing since 2009 and till date I don't see any damages to the environment, musk is turning himself into a joke, fingers crossed for now

a mining does require a large amount of energy, especially bitcoin, but not all of the electricity used to mine from fossil materials can also be from water turbines, and that too is the use of existing natural resources, which can be from wind energy or water to drive existing turbines. , and if Elon thinks that BTC mining is bad for the environment using fossil materials then he will have to find a solution for him to make his own version of bitcoin.

Excessive consumption of electrical energy will have an impact on dangerous levels of natural ecosystems, but the problem is in what kind of realm is this impact? and I have never seen waste like this except in the international news stories that talk about the biggest mining.

So far, this information has only been shown for big miners as well as pressure on entrepreneurs to make other alternatives by transferring their function to using energy other than electricity. even though we all often do extravagant, even on a small scale.

This has been a calculated attempt by Elon to dump the price and he has succeeded, Elon already knows that btc mining don't is not so dangerous to environment as oil does, he just capitalise on this to be able to dump the price and he has succeeded.
Try and Read this  "Fossil fuels, including coal, oil and natural gas, are currently the world's primary energy source. Formed from organic material over the course of millions of years, fossil fuels have fueled U.S. and global economic development over the past century" (https://www.eesi.org/topics/fossil-fuels/description)
This clearly shows that fossil fuel have been serving thr USA for centuries, btc is just a decade,  Maybe Elon needs a little dip research.

At the end of the day this is nothing more but an excuse to try to attack bitcoin, in the past we heard things like bitcoin was a Ponzi or a scam but those arguments cannot be made anymore as bitcoin has lasted more than a decade, it was the best possible investment during that time and now institutional investors are coming to the market.

So they are trying to find something else to attack it and they are using its energy consumption against it, which is ridiculous as having a strong from of money is critical for civilization to take place and without it we could argue we will never reached our current progress, so do not mind those people as they do not know what they are talking about.

There is much more to crypto than mining. Mining is proof of work, but there are other options types like stacking, proof of coverage etc. Mining was the foundation of crypto space but with time space will evolve and grow.

It’s just an FUD tool used by tree huggers, gov shills & banking peeps. The fiat banking system uses way more energy than bitcoin/crypto mining. It’s a weak arguments spewed out by idiots.

Energy consumption becomes an issue to creat FUD but seriously, the consumption is huge but I can’t imagine how much energy and raw materials do you need to print fiat money? I guess this should not be the real issue here. I don’t panic on that kind of news, i just focus buying a cheaper good coins because I know they’ll rise again.

Famous people can easily create FUD and by giving the "Energy consumption trap card" to people and giving FOMO on those cryptos who are more "greenier" than the other one. Energy consumption is getting bigger and bigger over the past few years because almost everything now relies on energy and adding new technologies such as electric cars will make the consumption go higher. Since the born of bitcoin, Energy is required for it to be operated so why do people use their energy trap card now when they can use it before. It's just for FUD I guess.

It is true, mining is a basic thing that anyone who can afford can do, so those who are still less able to choose other options to do their work in the crypto space, because to earn is not only through mining alone.

Elon musk is just trying to make name for himself in crypto space since many are following him but the thing is a wisest man can do stupid things too, we have many different PoW algorithm in crypto space and people are left to make their own decisions, we also have PoS for those that don't like anything mining, the answers are already present in crypto space

Energy consumption is ok when used for the right things and to solve important problems. Energy consumed has to come from good sources that have little to no risk to society. The energy consumed need to be in proportion (or is used more efficiently) to the problem solved, and the morality of the system/network that is using the energy need to be checked also.

It actually would cost more energy to properly Decentralized a Network/System. And it's actually worth spending more on energy to properly decentralize. One or few centralized nodes cost less energy than thousands/millions of nodes scattered around the world to secure a shared/decentralized Network.

Hopefully, we should get the thousands/millions of decentralized equipments to use energy efficiently even if the energy consumption rate keeps increasing due to more decentralized equipments and activities . That's what is more important to us than worrying about well decentralized network using more clean/renewable energy.

Better doing that than stressing yourself following those fuds, inside this sphere there are lots of opportunities, if you want a lesser stress then follow your own understanding and keep yourself away from those news which only focused with shaking the market and moving those weak holders to release their holdings and lose their investment eventually.

Take your time and make your own statement during bear and bull seasons, it's you who can decide which path to take and not those fuds and fomos that keeps bothering the market.

Elon created a whole new deal out of this (pun intended) but the reality is that finance world is killing the world so much that bitcoin using up some electricity is not even remotely similar. I mean wall street is the one that keeps making oil companies rich while they spill it everywhere, wall street is the one financing fracking companies to hurt the world, basically the fiat world has been screwing the world way before crypto was even a thing. 20 years before crypto was even started, TWENTY YEARS AGO, al gore became a candidate on saving the world.

Hence I do not think that we can blame miners on current situation, plus if we block all the bad ways of generating electricity and go with just renewable ones, then the miners would have to get that instead of the current one, so I do not think why people do not focus on getting more renewable energy instead of shutting down things that uses energy.

That is so true, I mean banking sector uses a massive amount of energy and they just ignore it when it comes to them by saying "we are expanding" and then the argument is given that growth will come at the expense of some energy resources. But when it comes to bitcoin or crypto then suddenly everyone becomes a monk and suggests that we should not waste energy.

In my theory, banks and governments have realized they cannot suppress the growth of crypto at all and the best way to detach people from using it is to moan about it in whatever ways they can.

There are big brains behind this FUD and they are paid by the government in some way because crypto is seen as a serious threat to the banking sector now.

agree with this one. so many people know about renewable resources, and they already use it. not only in big town, sometime, you will see as many as you can in a small town because lack of development. and volunteer will do it with no any cost.
 its true if people use coal or same thing for their energy since long time ago, and it will be happen until we run out stock.

in a down market condition like now, I think buying an asset and then depositing it for a stake for a long time will grow the assets we have. the safest I think is stake and trade.

I agree, why people always talk about nonsense like this, at first they should already know that the use of energy for mining is very large, oddly, no one sues when the price goes up, and when it goes down they say that this is one of the reasons.

From my experience, I like renewable energy. Crypto mining isn't a major problem, so why should we avoid it? We can avoid Elon Musk and his tweets. So many places are left in our world where we can build renewable energy resources. OP are right! We need more renewable energy but we can't avoid technology.

It's ridiculous, isn't it? Buy first, then shout about mining that is not environmentally friendly. Elon is not a fool, he uses his popularity as the richest man to take advantage of the trade. There has been a long time discussion about mining in this community, so what needs to be debated again.

People are always quick to point fingers to cryptos  for high energy consumption but almost everything we benefit from in this technology age consumes energy and has resultant effects on the environment. Even the so called electric cars consume as much energy in there production as the carbon emission cars.
Cryptocurrencies consumes energy due to mining, but it is not as serious as it is made to seem.

Media and other die-hard environmentalists are making it a big deal, that they forgot to see other industries that are consuming much more energy. Maybe, crypto is in the hot seat because it is gaining massive interest from the community, so some people want to scrutinize the potential points that will make it negative to the eyes of the public. In mining, we can always use the renewable sources of energy. So right now, those entities pointing out about high energy usage, I believe, are those that don't like the existence of crypto. There are other human activities that are wasting energy. But with crypto, at least, it is giving something useful to the community.

Yep true, the concern is about to use only environtmental friendly energy.
But i prefer a dPOS consensus mechanism as a future cryptocurrency, its because the scalability and the cheaper cost transaction than a POW one.

It's true that Elon Musk became rich because he was smart, so he used his popularity to manipulate the crypto market. I'm sure Elon Musk has done
his research before investing in Bitcoin, so he knew from the start about mining that is not environmentally friendly. But why is Elon Musk just saying
it now, after he has already made a large profit. Because Elon Musk wants crypto prices to fall, so he and some of his closest people can buy Bitcoin
at a very cheap price. After all, there have been many discussions related to mining, this is nothing new. Elon Musk is just looking for ways to manipulate
the market.

Yes, that is obvious but everyone also has to make sure the purchases they make are really at the lowest point, because that will also further support their profits when the market returns to normal or recovers.

That is just what it is, they are realizing that they cannot FUD people with bitcoin being a scam or a bubble anymore, they cannot use the argument that it is only used by criminals when we have one hundred million people using it and helping them in countries where inflation is out of control.

So what else can they use? The energy consumption of course, now most people on first world countries are environmental conscious so this is an easy card for them to play that will slow down adoption once again, but if this is the best they have then bitcoin will keep being adopted at an alarming rate and there will be nothing they can do about it.

Nobody says that we need to give up the benefits of civilization. However, along with technical development, we need to be very careful about the environment, and with this, humanity has recently had big problems and therefore the climate began to change dramatically. Here you really need to choose: either mindlessly continue to consume the energy of coal, gas and oil, or switch to other sources of it, especially since the technology of extracting energy from the sun, wind and water has made great progress in recent years. In my opinion, solar panels and wind generators are exactly what we need now.
Cryptocurrency for mining now also needs to switch to the use of renewable energy sources, otherwise states may even try to ban it because of this. There is no need to give states an extra reason for this. It is important here that bitcoin shows an example in this.

I kinda agree with you, however, human is popular with the destructive trait. Many greedy people don't care about earth conservation. The right behavior should be like this: wisely using, actively nurture. If we can't avoid energy consumption, then we need to find an alternative way, and if still can't then do the maintenance, at least to minimize the damage. The earth is already old, and as a human, we need to keep developing without abandoning our place to live in. We need to balance the technology used, in this case, bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, and earth conservation by using renewable energy instead of charcoal as the solution. I think this is possible.

energy consumption used for mining could use renewable source if people intend to, meanwhile real world precious metal mining destroy the environment like directly.
This is just pure fud trying to frame crypto as a bad thing that wastes energy meanwhile so many unnecessary things out there also wastes energy and destroy environment.
see diamond mining, this thing isn't even that scarce but get mined like crazy despite able to be created artificially and thats just for gimmick by these big companies who hungry of money
but no one bats an eye, saying crypto wasting energy is so dumb.

You all are right... BUT if we could build proof-of-stake blockchains on a same level regarding security as proof-of-work chains, but consuming far less energy... shouldn't we stick to that on the long run?  8)

(now please do not hit me  ::) )

No one will hit you here, because any ideas and tips are always highly appreciated by the people in this forum, so don't be afraid to share new ideas as long as it can be very good for the survival of the cryptocurrency and the market.

It's consumers choice honestly, no one should force someone to go for proof of stake coins or proof of work coins, as for the environment friendly part that's a complete joke, electricity is unlimited and we use it in our daily lives, if I can be able to make money out of electricity and pay for it why the noise? Every miners pays their electricity bill and that is enough to shut anyone up

And you also need to know that not everyone is able to do this because everyone's abilities are different and the large expenditure of electricity is an obstacle for some people who want to mine in crypto.

Well yes, but creating energy is not limitless or without risk. It requires burning coal (which is limited) or handling nuclear energy (which is risky) and even solar energy or other green energies do require some raw materials or bring some impact for the environment.
So I still think: the less energy, the better :-)

I don't agree it is unlimited and also there is no doubt that electricity comes at a cost. The important point here is that we reduce that cost! That is why renewable will play such an important role. By now crypto consumes a significant amount of electricity and the goal must be to reduce the carbon footprint of that electricity. Cryptos must be sustainable, but also secure and unbreakable. That is the discussion surrounding proof of stake and proof of work.

Everything we do consumes energy. The greatest energy we can spend when we think something, not by doing work. Crypto also consumes a lot of energy, even though we are only in front of the computer.

It is not about the problem about energy consumption which is renewable, but using fossil fuels and coal to create that kind of energy and if the majority of the electricity is made from renewable energy then no one will be having any problems.

Today CZ made a great tweeted about energy consumption, Elon Musk who is creating electric vehicles is complaining about Bitcoin's electric usage and boycotting them, this is hypocrisy to the highest level :D.

Actually, cryptocurrency mining is not taking too much electricity as the government says. Yes it needs energy to operate but remember we are using the air-conditioning everywhere just because we have money to pay the bills which affects the UV layers and encouraged more skin cancer due to that then why governments are yet to ban air conditioning brands?

I think this concern has been paid attention to due to Elon Musk's reasoning on why he stopped using bitcoin as a mode of payment for Tesla. If we would put environmental concerns to our ways here in crypto, I find it reasonable why many people are concerned. Considering the fact that every resource from our natural environment has a limit, regardless of the time span it may take before it gets consumed completely, we should still find a way on how we can make it last longer. In the case of crypto, maybe there is a way on how we can consume energy and at the same time replace the energy used so everyone would agree and everyone would still benefit.

If they are going to attack crypto with such argument, then they have to look at the overall picture and not just isolate bitcoin or crypto in general as far as energy consumption is concern.

Bitcoin uses less than 1% of the overall energy consumption, so that alone is not enough to really damage the environment according to their argument, which is has a flaw in the beginning.

How about fiat though? did they check how big banks consumption?

People started to think as Elon Musk or Maybe Elon musk thought as apple. If we talk about energy consumption and the environment, then Elon Musk and Apple shouldn't be silent. We can block Elon Musk social activities sites, we shouldn't follow Elon Musk. We can use renewable energy instead of non-renewable energy. Even Apple is doing the same for their opportunity as Elon Musk. Although this isn't part of the altcoins discussion. Sorry 😔

If Bitcoin contributes to more stable financial and economic regimes, it is worth the energy. The money we burn every year due to inflation should also be taken into account. Not that Bitcoin is any better as of now, but I personally think it is only becoming better from here.

No job is easy, everything requires energy. On crypto, we spend a lot of energy. Moreover, market conditions are getting worse, energy and thoughts will always be integrated. So that fatigue will occur, and many people are frustrated. Likewise with promoting the bounty project. It may look light. However, it actually consumes energy. Moreover, the work we do does not get paid a penny.

Maybe it's because recently the environmental problem is quite a serious issue, we know our earth is getting too old, climate change is really bad right now, and maybe people are afraid that with the increasing hype and popularity of bitcoin more people will be involved in mining, which is true though. Most of my friends started mining just recently since bitcoin price is high again, and like you said, i really agree that we should just focus on finding and using clean renewable energy, and shouldn't be too excessive.

Now such excuses are that we can completely dispose of energy,
since we buy it, they will no longer work. This attitude is destroying humanity due to the dramatic climate change. In this connection, states will have to jointly establish new additional rules. Since the issue of the consumption of a large amount of energy by bitcoin is raised, and the issue of consumption when mining carbohydrate energy sources is also raised, it will not disappear by itself. Bitcoin will have big problems over time if the energy consumption of mining is not reduced. It is better to think about this issue now and try to rectify the situation than to wait until the states jointly take repressive protective measures in relation to certain types of cryptocurrency, and first of all to bitcoin.

They know they do not have to do anything like that, most people believe everything they read so as soon as they began this campaign against bitcoin we saw many people going against bitcoin for that alone.

It seems neither the government, the media or the majority of the people care about the truth, bitcoin uses mostly green sources of energy anyway, its energy consumption is being exaggerated and compared to the current system we have in place bitcoin is many times more efficient, but obviously they cannot say this as they will shoot themselves on the foot with such information

Yes the energy consumption of cryptocurrency is very bad, because of how it affects our environment. Based on my recent research, I believe that a lot of miners are now making use of renewable energy sources, and those who are not making use of it also have plans to switch to it.

There are now organizations that works towards that, and with time I believe that this is not going to be a really big problem. And I believe that this is something that needs to be solved quickly. Yes, there eco-friendly coins that uses which doesn’t consume energy like bitcoin, but are people ready to switch to making use of those coins?, That is the question, and it’s why we should encourage the use of renewable energy sources.

Recently, this issue has become a hot topic of discussion, and has had a huge effect on the market. Even though from the first crypto mining and energy consumption were related, because a mining activity would definitely consume a lot of energy, but somehow since Elon started to raise it into a tweet, this seems to be a dangerous thing and an extraordinary thing, isn't it? we see this to be an attempt to manipulate the market? no need to listen too much to issues like this, it's better to focus on each other's work.

Elon Musk was on the one hand a real clown to raise that issue because he must have known in advance but on the other hand he was the prefect man to get that stone rolling again. His sudden reaction was ridiculous, but energy is of course an issue. As it is with everything we currently power with energy, we will need to expand renewable energy capacities. It can't happen overnight and as much as we don't stop driving or flying there is also no reason to stop Bitcoin abruptly because of that. Solutions need time.

Michael Novogratz's cryptocurrency company Galaxy Digital released a report on Friday entitled "On Bitcoin Energy Consumption: A Quantitative Approach to Subjective Questions", providing open source access to its methodology and calculations.

Compiled by mining division Galaxy, the study estimates Bitcoin's annual electricity consumption to be at 113.89 terawatts per hour, including energy for miner demand, miner power consumption, pool power consumption, and node power consumption. This amount is at least twice lower than the total energy consumed by the banking system as well as the gold industry each year, according to Galaxy estimates.

While Bitcoin's energy consumption is transparent and easy to track in real time using tools like the Cambridge Bitcoin Electricity Consumption Index, evaluating the energy use of the gold industry and traditional financial systems isn't that simple, says Galaxy Digital Mining.

reported from https://wartaekonomi.co.id/berita341854/riset-ini-sebut-industri-perbankan-more- many-use-listrik-dibanding-bitcoin

Energy consumption for crypto mining in this case is about electricity.
As we know that every country may have limited electricity power energy. That is why commonly the government will ask us to save the energy as possible as we can. And for mining, we need the energy all the time during mining and the energy used is very high. This will of course influence the stock of the energy itself. It may not work when there are only a few people doing the mining. But imagine that there are so many people who do mining. WHat will happen is that the energy consumption will be so much more for crypto mining and this will really make energy stock in such country limited enough.
And moreover, most countries are not ready with alternative energy to be sued right now.

Maybe he thinks about the amount of electricity needed in mining, and maybe he only thinks that electricity comes from fossils, even though there are many countries that make electricity generation by hydro, wind, or solar. If Elon is concerned about energy consumption, an Elon who is known for his wealth should be able to create a power plant with environmentally friendly power rather than tweeting about energy consumption.

All these energy consumption stories are created because the governments have realized and understood that Bitcoin is unstoppable and the only way you can create hate against this crypto is through this energy consumption propaganda. I mean the most developed countries use the highest amount of resources and energy but no one gives a sh*t because they believe growth will come at a cost.

But when the same logic is needed for crypto people don't understand it. All these social media influencers are paid by the government in my opinion to spread hate and pessimism around bitcoins. We as a community need to stand strong and understand that power consumption is not really a reason why we should stop using Bitcoins.

First, they called it a bubble but once they realize Bitcoin is just spreading like fire in the forest, they are coming up with stories.

Yes, it should be, because it is impossible for the richest person in the world to not be able to do that because in general his abilities have exceeded other people and also have very much financial support.

What's funny is that Elon was 100% aware of how it works but earlier he never brought up the point but now all the discussion revolves around this energy consumption.

For a moment I even agree that yes energy is wasted but we have POS coins coming up then are people ready to accept them or they have some other logic for not accepting it? I mean if someone wants to use crypto but doesn't because it wastes energy then go ahead and use POS coins and you should be good. I don't know why suddenly this has become a huge problem while the system exists for 10+ years.

This is the point which leads me to think he actually was not aware of everything. So he knew maybe like most of us did about mining, that it needed computers and expensive computers.

What he probably did not find out at first, again just like most of us,,, was that it actually was very very expensive to run these miner computers on their own all day all year:)

And finally he is a big idiot for not realizing this is the most secure money network in the world. Of course it costs money to secure it! If not, then anyone would be incentivized to attack it.

Compare the mining, use, and validation of cryptocurrencies with the issuance of banknotes, bank operations, and confirmation of transactions.
Cryptocurrency is more economical because it is decentralized and cheaper than the worldwide banking system if we look at it as a whole.
Some mining and operating cryptocurrencies are quite light and use little electrical energy.
Cryptocurrency is just one of the payment solutions so it will improve over time. Any argument that cryptocurrencies are wasteful is false because cryptocurrencies themselves have evolved from POW to POS mining.

I only partially agree with you here. I mean yes of course we need to consume energy to be able to live our modern lives as we do since a few decades but i disagree that a civilization is measured by its energy consumption in the sense of more consumption = better or a higher grade of civilization. The goals for our time now should be to consume as little energy as possible which means to make machines and all other devices as energy efficient as possible. This process is already happening since decades and if i compare my car now with one of 1970 then my current car consumes only half as much gasoline but has twice the performance.
The other approach is to stop unnecessary consumption completely and to be honest i think crypto mining is pretty much unnecessary as there are other consensus mechanism out there like Proof of Stake.

I think the reason behind these energy issues is related to climate change because according to the timeline we have only 9 years of time left to make a difference to reduce the global average temperature after that 9 years time according to them the global climate will not be the same again. and because crypto mining is not solely run on clean and renewable energy that's why it was included now in the topic. but I believe that issue will be fixed sooner.

Yes, it does look like speculation and a game so that the bitcoin market can experience a crash and those who are rich can get bitcoin at a cheap price and one day try to pump it back so they can make a lot of profit.

I honestly don't know why crypto and energy is now talk of the town, we all know that mining of coin consumes energy and is not only mining of coin that consumes energy. Now that elon musk is talking about btc consuming alot of energy is like starting a war. We should all know that something like this might come up sometime, we just have to be prepared when next something like this comes up.

Did you live in a bubble? Besides Corona, the most discussed topic worldwide is certainly climate change and the possibilities to stop or at least limit it. That is why many countries have decided to soon no longer allow gasoline engines and switch to electric energy forms or, for example, to phase out coal energy. It was foreseeable that crypto with its partly horrendous energy consumption will come into focus sooner or later.

I understand the worry, I worry about our energy consumption as a whole world, and I worry that if we do not do something about the climate change soon, we are going to live one of the hardest periods of humanity ever since the black plague. However this is not about consuming energy, this is about where that energy comes from and that is the problem.

If you have insane amount of solar panels and create energy from that and use it for bitcoin mining then we do not have a problem, the aim of stopping the current global warming crisis is not to downsize the amount of energy we consume, it is to stop the energy creation out of things like fossil fuels, there is a big difference.

Well, comparing to centralized system especially on Financial sector it cost much higher rather than crypto mining, From some article Banks consume 4x higher rather than crypto mining especiall Mining. Read more here; https://medium.com/@zodhyatech/which-consumes-more-power-banks-or-bitcoins-8302750fe2bc
That's a difficult thing, Crypto and Blockchain are prohibited not because of energy consumption but because banks or centralized systems are afraid of losing their monopoly role (My personal assumption), What do you think guys?

People will not see that. What they see is expensive Chinese miners eating up electricity to let people gamble and do ransom.

What they cannot see is the millions of employees and managers at banks, and expensive 24/7 computers and redundant servers all maintaining the global financial system yet easy to hack, easy to take down, and with full of exploits and bad management all around. That is the true cost.

They only look at a certain level and evaluate everything with a one-sided view of Bitcoin. It was the advent of Bitcoin that made international remittance services work better than before, increased sending speeds and launched mobile apps for people to be proactive in their transactions.
It was Bitcoin that changed the face of banking around the world.
As you said, it is absurd when the security level of the banking system is weak. It is that weakness that brings about economic and time loss, which can be said to slow down the history of human development.

But that is natural and normal. Even from the side of crypto,,, we have to admit most crypto people also evaluate things from their single perspective. Fiat and banks are evil and all that and ignore 99% of alt projects are also truly evil and even worse as they scam people left and right.

But yes, it seems this is the neverending debate that never looks at the real answer.

I also assume the same thing, only in this case the Bank can also cooperate with Crypto and Blockchain because crypto users will also use the Bank in their respective regions even though they will no longer keep money in the bank.

I don't see the motivation behind why this is an issue, im previously utilizing environmentally friendly power energy in my home throughout recent years and my mining ranch is running on sunlight based boards and reinforcement. In the end it needs impetus and the arrangement is incorporated, leaving a few clients to trust the validators without enough control.

Crypto and energy are always discussed because they are related to the future of the earth,
if they can indeed give the earth a longer life, of course blockchain and crypto currency will always be used all over the world,
and when compared to some other assets such as gold, silver etc., currency crypto is really energy efficient, of course this will be an interesting topic

Unfortunately there are tons of projects that were created just to make the creator richer, that is the whole purpose of those projects because creator only wants money. This doesn't exactly mean that they are not focusing on making the project better, if the project doing better means the team profiting more sometimes they do that, but if the whole point is to have a project that will make them money, they will focus on that and the project rarely becomes good.

This is why I feel like there is a good point to be made, if there is a project you research that has stuff in it that helps the team a lot such as premind or whatever, that means it is an evil project and you should stay away from it. However there are zero good banks, all banks are bad from start because of the whole idea, but there are decent crypto currencies.

The issue of green house gas produced by fossil fuel and energy consumption used in industries, homes and modern businesses has greatly caused damage to earth eco system!  I believe bitcoin can use clean energy for it's mining operations. The onus is on us now to find  alternative energy for bitcoin activities in order to make it compliant and acceptable in the future!

nowadays everything is done with energy consumption and therefore relative pollution but unlike many other things the mining of altcoins is something we do for ourselves and not imposed by others (industries, governments) and then they can be used renewable energies to pollute less

Well,,, actually that definition already fits them as a scam. If the whole purpose of project was never to focus on making it better or development of the product, then it is a scam.

And this is why I wholly believe actually projects who raise funds without doing nothing actually never mean to do anything aka they are doing a scam a long way around.

who is restricting it . this is a kind of energy that are not harmful in the environment . crypto mining can produced heat and heat is a form of renewabale energy ,they can make use of it instead of restricting crypto mining .

theres no problem if i were to ask as long as your using the energy for a purpose and not wasting it for useless things . its crazy going back in the old age but we need to be inovative as this makes people life easier

Yes, everyone has a better idea in terms of any mining so that everyone doesn't have to worry about pollution or other things to the environment because nowadays there are many advanced technologies that can be used by everyone.

Yes, and smart people will certainly know which materials are suitable for them to use in mining sites, so that it doesn't need to be a problem for too long because in the past a lot of mining was carried out, but there were never any problems related to the environment or pollution.

Aside from using clean renewable energy, there should also be efficient use of energy. Little/zero energy should go to waste, in my opinion. I think this was solved by satoshi with him suggesting that heat from miners  be used for other purpose like heating homes/buildings in cold environments.
I think we should be seriously looking for ways to put the heat generated into good use,if it has not been done already.

That idea is close to impossible if I am not mistaken as Bitcoin is pretty much solely mined by gigantic data centers filled up till under the roof with dedicated mining hardware. They even use systems to reduce the heat in order to increase the hardware's longevity. I don't see a way to canalize the heat in a reasonable manner to homes such that they can use it for heating.

If someone decides to do mining, they will logically determine the resources needed and also think about the long term effects, and as you said that there are now many advanced technologies, if used properly, these technologies are able to minimize the existing pollution even recycle what was originally a pollution into a new resource for use in mining

That is clear, so that now there is no longer any reason for pollution or problems with the environment, because those who want to mine in large and large quantities, of course will use a simple and easy way and do not damage the environment, because there are many technologies and tools that can be used.

Did you ever mine anything with a simple GPU? These data centers are running an unbelievable amount of devices, sometimes a good bit away from the next village or town depending on which country we are talking. Generally, yes heat can be used to produce energy, but that is not a simple endeavor. Heating homes probably referred to people mining at home, and I was rather referring to the fact that mining at home simply doesn't take place anymore because the data centers took over.

I don't think we need to go back to live in caves to stop using energy for our own purposes. Why don't you consider the option that we are simply deceived and forced to buy something that is very profitable for someone? I am not saying that green energy is bad, on the contrary it is very good, but getting this energy at this stage of development is an expensive pleasure. Moreover, these technologies existed before, but they were simply not used as large players earned money on other sources of energy. Now, too, nothing has changed much, if it is profitable to make money on coal, then they will extract coal, who does not have coal, oil, gas and even wood, then of course they will try to use alternative sources of energy, while it simply may not be enough for industry and heavy production. Cryptocurrencies also consume energy, but not on the same scale as we can. All this, as I said above, is a game of big players, and everyone tries to defend their interests.

Even the hydropower supplied mining farms in deep hills of Sichuan are being shut down by the Chinese government. Though bitcoin has found its way to some European nation with green renewable energy. I don't think it's possible to shift from POW to POS for bitcoin. So, for it to stay, they should promote mining through renewable energy. POW is one of the trusted way of securing the network.

Some people are just ignorant so they always raise this issues or that people who doesn't like Bitcoin or others who want FUD will try to spread this argument as many times as they want in a bias way because a lot of people wouldn't really care much about the details.

Mining is also not only bad with PoW. There is so much wasted overproduced electricity that could be used to mining. That way the companies wouldn't just let overproduction go to waste but instead use it for mining and increase profitability thereby. Everyone just sees the downsides of mining with electricity, but there is also a lot of potential to proof of work. I won't go into detail, but one idea is to have power plants in rural areas that are a risky investment under normal circumstances because you don't know if you can sell all your energy as a provider. Now if you don't, you could just point that energy towards Bitcoin mining, making it more attractive to take on risk by launching power plants in rural areas.

Yes, but those of us who really care and understand about cryptocurrencies also don't need to pay attention to those who are stupid because arguing with stupid people can also lead us to stupid places like him.

Yesterday there was a topic in my own nations crypto forum that I read and it was an interesting read. This one guy wrote it and he is someone who works for a company that has wind turbines, for some reason they make it work on 98% power and leave the other 2 alone, no idea why but I suppose it was just personal preference at that point.

So, when crypto got big this year they wanted to see if they could buy some equipment and mine it, after all mining machines do work and they do make money as well, with the 2% remaining power they could buy around 1000 S9's to mine, still a ton of money to spend but that would be fine.

They calculated that it would cost 16.5 million dollars to buy 1000 (even if they could find it which they can't for now) and would recoup the investment in 2 years. They decided it was the most idiotic investment because they could just buy 16 more wind turbines which would keep giving you profit for 50 years at least instead of be obsolete when new miners come out. So, they decided not to do that since financially it was a horrible decision. Energy consumption of it is not the problem, miners are getting ripped off unless they make their own equipment that's plain and simple.

I believe people who invest in such mining operations expect the price of bitcoin and altcoins is going to increase much more yet, so although the return of investment may take 2 years to be achieved, the final profit can also be much higher than the one they expect at this moment, since they are only considering the currently currencies' prices on their calculations and in 2 years bitcoin can rise 50%, 100%, 150%...
Anyway, it's a very risky investment, because we are talking about millions of dollars and there isn't any guaranteed date to recover this investment. It will depend on the market's fluctuations and if we occasionally hit a long lasting bear season it will take even longer to retrieve the money invested.

This is the reading that I found, the case that is happening now is likely to just bring order to the miners, that in North America they use hydropower and renewable energy.

According to recent studies, hydropower is the most common source of energy for miners. Nearly 62% of miners reportedly use hydroelectric power. Sources of coal and natural gas occupy the second and third positions at 38% and 36%, respectively.

The report further divides miners' energy consumption by region, noting that miners from Asia-Pacific, Europe, Latin America, and North America use almost the same percentage of hydropower as electricity from other sources such as coal, natural gas, wind, and oil. .

The report also notes that Asia Pacific miners account for nearly 77% of Bitcoin's hash power, but use the lowest amount of renewable energy sources. While North America only adds 8% to the total hash power, 63% of the energy consumed in mining Bitcoin comes from renewable sources.

source:
https://www.wartaekonomi.co.id/read306996/mayoritas-penambang-kripto-gunakan-energi-terbarukan

Yes, we don't need to listen to stupid people like them so that we don't fall into the strange doctrines they are trying to do, because if we get into the doctrines they are trying to spread, it will only make us not focus on the research and assets we have.

True, that's why some people say to always leave people with negative thoughts and always approach people who have positive thoughts, because with that our enthusiasm for working in the crypto space will not diminish.