Bitcoin Forum

Currently Grayscale's bitcoin trust owns 654k and the top companies hold 200k, that's 854k bitcoins out of circulation from 21million, not to mention an estimated million more lost. We see alot of bitcoin integrations from paypal, mastercard but is there a public for that? With hour long payment confirmations, I just don't see it as a payment form in everyday life. Has bitcoin turned into an investment wagon or is there still a possibility of it becoming an everyday payment currency?

Bitcoin doesn't have "hours long confirmations", it has fee market and sometimes the fees get high, meaning that transactions with lower fees won't confirm until the fees drop down. I wouldn't argue that it hurts Bitcoin viability as a payment method for everyone, but it is possible to use it as such as of now.

But the plan is to officially release Lightning Network, as it is actually allows Bitcoin to be competitive with fiat payment methods in terms of speed and fees. So you don't have to view Bitcoin as only investment or only currency, because people can choose to use it however they like.

Bitcoin was built on scarcity model. I believe the amount of bitcoin held by persons or organisations does not in anyway affect the nature of bitcoin. Even the lost btc works for the unlost btc. There more it's lost, the more it's held the more relevant it becomes. The higher the demand.

For everyday transactions, I think a sir hatsh has explained how Lightening Network has and it's still solving the problem.

Bitcoin is a multifaceted tool hence, it is not limited to the concept of just an investment only; it can be political, technological or can be used as an alternative payment for goods and services.

It also does not lost its purpose, it is still the bitcoin we know which made borderless payment possible. Bitcoin is still revolutionary, immutable, public, collaborative, open, resistant, and decentralized (RIPCORD).

Furthermore, according to current statistics, only 100 million people own bitcoin[1], accounting for only 1.5 percent[2] of the global population, with the majority of them being speculators who view bitcoin solely for profit.

[1] https://www.buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-bitcoin-users/
[2] https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

You seem somewhat worried about institutional investors acquiring Bitcoin in the large amounts that they are doing, but mind you that it's the investment opportunity Bitcoin offers that makes it much more attractive and appealing to a wider range/number of people, having said that, it does not mean Bitcoin can't be used as a currency, it is used and with time "Bitcoin as a currency" will continue to develop into mainstream adoption, but the reality remains that the outlets for which people can use Bitcoin as a payment option now is somewhat limited, if more countries can follow in the path of El-savador, then we'll get there (mainstream adoption) sooner rather than later, but then again, you should understand that whichever way one desires to spend and use their Bitcoin is entirely up to them as they are free to control their funds.

Bitcoin just dont have enough TPS to be worldwide payment system (if we are talking about L1). As for me it always was form of investment

Bitcoin is whatever you want it to be, and that's the beauty of it. It's true that it is nowadays mainly used as an investment, but it is still efficient and cheap way (if you know how to manually adjust fee) to transfer money, especially bigger amounts. Bare in mind that Bitcoin is actually still new, ~decade is nothing for something disruptive like this, and sooner or later some solutions like LN will make it more cheaper to transfer.

So no, I don't think that Bitcoin lost its purpose.

Have you really done some transactions lately? it doesn't take that long as what you're saying about the transaction time. It's lesser than what you're saying.

Why it can't be both? we can use it for payments and as well as holding it as an asset, a store of value.

Why is btc purpose becomes suddenly questionable by some people, btc is a coin with multiple functions, it is left for anyone to decide what they want to use btc for, either as an investment purpose or payment system purpose it doesn't matter, what matters is what you choose it for, others use it as a store of value, what ever btc is used for doesn't mean it has loss it purpose.

There should have been an option for 'Both' in the toll and I am sure most people would have selected that.
The thing is, although bitcoin was meant to be used as a payment method it is now used as an investment method.
Things like this has happened in the history where certain things were meant for something but were used as something else.
Bitcoin is being used as an investment but there are people who still use it as a payment method.
Yes the transaction fees might be a problem but the Lightning Network will enable merchants/customers to send and receive payments easily.
So for the time being 'Both' is the option.

I think the OP is partly right that Bitcon today has moved away from the white paper's idea of being a P2P electronic cash system. It is more of an investment vehicle, and as of today and in the near future it looks like its success is going to be in being the replacement for gold in the digital world.

The option of making P2P transactions will always be there but it seems that if it is going to mark an important change in the world it will be because a multitude of companies acquire it as a reserve and because they implement it so that people can buy it through them, like Paypal.


I agree.

How has bitcoin lost it's purpose? The fact that it's still being used right now for payments even though it's on-chain transactions are quite slow, just shows how much potential payment transactions would be made when layer-2s are ready.

As for payment, Bitcoin is one I think is very transactional for me, ever tried sending money from a under-developed country to the developed countries or tried receiving from them to yours, you can wait on weeks and still get issues that you may need to reverse it, I think the wait on Bitcoin for transaction confirmation is not stationary, but since I have been transacting I have had more fast transactions than slow, I would like to think Bitcoin according to my knowledge and that's is bitcoin is everything and anything.

BTC is too slow, the TPS are too low, the fees are too high, the ledger is impractically large and it lacks privacy for it to be anything other than an investment option. Other cryptos are better options and will supersede it eventually.

You should add 3 point in response to the pool you created.
3. Investment and also mean of payment

Don't ever think that if there are many institutional investors who own hundred of thousand of bitcoin, it has eliminated the usefulness of bitcoin as a mean of payment. Bitcoin has the same function as a currency and bitcoin can also be an investment and trading asset so that it will always be used by users. The function of bitcoin as a currency will remain regardless of how many people want to use it or not.

The confirmation time really depend on the network and transaction fee you use. But I'm quite happy for the last 3 weeks because the transaction fee is quite cheap which is around 1 sat/byte and you only need to wait 10-30 minute to get confirmation. Using bitcoin as a mean of everyday payment really depend on the country you live in and how many merchant are willing to accept bitcoin as a mean of payment. If you live in El-Salvador, you'll probably get used to using it every day because they have legal regulation to use it as currency.

actually wherever we use our bitcoin, we will never lose the function of bitcoin, in fact the emergence of bitcoin gives us freedom in all aspects, wherever we use bitcoin we certainly have its own purpose, it is impossible to lose its purpose, bitcoin gives a new nuance in our lives, if we invest in bitcoin, our goal is definitely to seek profit in the future. it's all up to us, which direction we are going, because bitcoin gives us true freedom..

This was expected once the institutional investors starts investing expecting to earn money in a short period of time and you cannot complaint if they expect that and if you are using it as a form of payment, it is good for you because majority are hoarding the coins than spending them.

I have no idea whether you made any payments recently because you are claiming that it takes a long time for confirmation and i am making transactions often and i will get the confirmation in 20 minutes with lower fees and Bitcoin is used as an investment for years and it is nothing new.

A quick confirmation doesn't equal a better or safer transfer of value. Credit cards seem like they confirm your transaction in seconds. But that's not final, only your balance (the credit) gets updated. In the background, the transaction needs from 1 to 3 business days to be processed. Not only that, but they are reversible for up to 6 months.

Bitcoin doesn't take three business days to confirm and it also doesn't have international limitations or restrictions. If you have paid a good enough mining fee, your first confirmation will arrive after 10 minutes on average and you already have full control of your money then. Six confirmations is often used when dealing with big amounts or cryptocurrency exchanges, and those will come within 1 hour in optimal network conditions. They are irreversible, and no one can block your non-custodial wallet or ask you any questions.

Bitcoin is a great hedge against inflation. The money in my bank losses value constantly and the purchasing power decreases year after year. And the bastards keep inventing new ways to take bits for themselves. Their newest scheme is forcing users to invest in their eurobonds, otherwise, they deduct a small percentage from your account each month.     

No, I don't think Bitcoin lost its purpose anyway. Aren't many companies have been accepting Bitcoin? But yea, we can't ignore most people select Bitcoin as a potential investment. We can't or shouldn't prevent them, but it doesn't mean really Bitcoin losing its purpose why has it been created. I can't blow up your concern about transaction delay, but it really depends on the fees that you are using. There are a few features that would reduce fees and speed up transactions duration like SegWit & Lightning networks. Hope it will reduce transactions delay problems.

Bitcoin was primarily created as an alternative means of payment to the current payment system. However, like any money, it also performs a number of functions inherent in money, including as a means of preserving value. However, Satoshi Nakamoto probably did not expect that the function of preservation of value would be so prevalent in it that people would use very little bitcoin as a means of payment for the purchase of goods and services. Of course, if people see that bitcoin is constantly increasing in value and simply holding it brings them large profits, it makes no sense to use its other functions. It's like slaughtering the goose that lays the golden eggs.

Bitcoin "can" be used in other platforms, which means it can be used as a payment platform, which means it isn't designed for it, but it can be used. So I don't think it's lost its purpose because it still enables peer-to-peer transactions via a decentralized system.

People buy BTC and sell it when they want to take advantage of market change, more likely an investment if we look but the p2p transaction still remains.

actually for now bitcoin can be used for both in the sense that it can be used as a tool for investment and can also be used for payments because if you look that way bitcoin can be used as both.
but for payment it might still be an alternative because considering fiat is still used as the main payment but I prefer it this way because considering this is very valuable if it is treated for the main payment

Bitcoin is a digital asset. you can use your asset as a payment method & as an investment as well. Most of us are doing online stuff and getting paid through Bitcoin. Many Buyers are offering freelancing jobs on online platforms and paid the employee through Bitcoin getaway cause they want to avoid monthly salary, basic employees.
On the other hand, the Bitcoin market is volatile and opens an opportunity for investors to take the advantage of volatility. People can invest in the long term or can do short trading as well.
so, you can take Bitcoin as a payment method, and also you can invest in it for long term or short term.

Purpose of bitcoin goes with the actual user, some people out there use it as an investment others use it as a mode of payment.

But personally I think it can be used for both investment and mode of payment.

Losing purpose I don't think so why would you say this, price is going up... more people want to have some bitcoin,  isn't this an indication that people have purpose for bitcoin.

let's be honest:

Does anyone here in this thread use bitcoin as a payment method?

i use litecoin because it is cheaper and faster compared to bitcoin, but i like bitcoin to trade and hodl. and i believe most people just use bitcoin to hodl and get big profits don't use bitcoin to buy stuff... unfortunately this is reality and we cannot hide

Bitcoin could do both things the only issue here is about legality but it wont really be that possible if we do talk directly because bitcoin is decentralized.Government could only make out some

involvement into those merchants or companies that do engage with it but overall it cant really influenced on how it do works.Lost its purpose? No it havent.It is just people are saving up

Bitcoin since they have seen the potential when it comes to make profits this simply means that they are holding it instead than on spending it actively.

Bitcoin is crypto currency and it could be an investment tool or a payment option depending on who owns it.
We are free to use it however we want it's purpose was to give us financial freedom and I think most of us already achieve it.
The purpose of Bitcoin also depends on who owns it.

Yes, I use bitcoin as payment method. Although, not as often now that I am accumulating, but I still do so from time to time. Other altcoin currencies are not yet on par with bitcon.
Although litecoin has faster transactions and lower fees, it is not widely used across all online stores and services as bitcoin.

Do you mean Bitcoin transactions spend too much time? I think it is not true, only for the transactions of a big number of BTC that spend hours. While for daily needs, It shouldn't need a big number of Bitcoin. Moreover, as far as I know, Bitcoin has its developers, who are always improving the system. Someday, we may see faster transactions for Bitcoin. So, don't be worried about the transactions time, it is not a too big deal. This won't make Bitcoin lose its purpose as a future currency.

It usually depends on what you can consider bitcoin is. On my own, so far I consider my bitcoin as an investment and I pay good attention to price changes because through, I may know the best course of action towards my holdings. I do not see it as an payment form although it can be since the value of it changes constantly. Maybe if I can see the value of bitcoin stabilizing and going higher, i might use it up as a payment form for convenience and to practice this privilege bitcoin has granted me upon.
 

Bitcoin can be used either as an investment or payment, it depends on us as Bitcoin owners. Everyone has different needs and goals when using
Bitcoin, I agree with you in the end we ourselves decide what to use Bitcoin for. But I prefer to use Bitcoin for long term investment, because it looks
at the history of Bitcoin price movements that continue to rise every year. Makes me more comfortable using Bitcoin for investment, after all because
in my country Bitcoin is forbidden to be used as payment, makes it a little difficult for me to use Bitcoin as payment.

Ha! It's confusing and surprising to see that I'm the one and only person who voted "Payment". I mean, I understand we all have our own opinions but do you really think Satoshi did this to create an investment portal? To me, It was created for Payment purpose, even though it serves other purposes. It's just like what Laszlo did. To make proof that this payment system works, he bought pizza with it. Think of it, do you think Laszlo doesn't know where he could buy pizza with fiat? He clearly stated in his post (https://bitcointalk.org/?topic=137.0) "You can make the pizza yourself and bring it to my house or order it for me from a delivery place, but what I'm aiming for is getting food delivered in exchange for bitcoins". So, based on some other factors too, the investment part just came along the way. My honest opinion.

Currently, I use Bitcoin as an investment. Bitcoin payments can be made in many places, but Bitcoin payments still require fees. I also tried the Lightning Network. Yes, the Lightning Network is more convenient, but Bitcoin is still very volatile now. If it is used for daily payment, I will not consider it now, and I will continue to hold it.
You can have both investment and payment.

LOL.... I have used Bitcoin as a payment thousands of times, ever since I first purchased it in 2014. If you are so concerned about the transaction fee, then it is better to use an altcoin, or wait until the fee gets lower. For the last 2-3 months, the transaction fee in the Bitcoin network has remained at extremely low levels (less than 5 Sat/Byte for most of the time). Personally I don't prefer to use alts such as Litecoin, because they are difficult to store, and on top of that they have a very high volatility.

I think, Bitcoin does not change the purpose of the state of origin.  Most important for payments is the high security of bitcoin.  Lightning integrated payment on BTC will turn into a super payment station, millions of transactions per second.  Investment purpose won't be a big deal once we reach free users, The fact that large organizations are keeping large volumes based on accumulation is proof of the success of lightning network btc in  future.  It's like shredded, like a proof of stake.

The purpose of Bitcoin is to be both a medium of exchange and a store of value.
There used to be a time when BTC served better as a medium of exchange,now Bitcoin is more like a store of value.That doesn't mean that BTC can't be used for everyday payments,but the merchants don't want BTC due to the price volatility and unstable transaction fees.
There's nothing wrong with Grayscale owning 654K Bitcoins.
I don't really think that Bitcoin was truly adopted by Paypal.You can't withdraw Bitcoins out of your Paypal account.This isn't true Bitcoin adoption.

true as you say, bitcoin never changes anything, and bitcoin also never loses its purpose, because we all already know bitcoin is a very valuable asset, the purpose of bitcoin is to give us a new civilization, and provide new challenges, as the world develops in the world. digital, then bitcoin crawls up,, because when the world starts to advance, our minds must go forward, to look for something new, to generate income..

Bitcoin was created as a form of payment tool but people are treating it as an investment right now and people are benefiting it.

I didn't lose its purpose because people are trying to send payment in a form of cryptocurrencies because that's what blockchain technology made for.

People are thinking that bitcoin lost its purpose because there are more cryptocurrencies existing in the market and there are more profitable than bitcoin,

Millions lost if you technically consider Satoshi's bitcoin as lost plus I think the data for lost coins are inaccurate because they are just listing dormant accounts so there's a possibility that the user of that account is just hodling at a really long time. Also, your thread sounds like the same thread of other users asking whether bitcoin is an asset or a currency. And no bitcoin hasn't lost it's purpose.

some of the people must have the same thoughts as you.
bitcoin may have lost its function as a means of payment.
but if you look at the beginning of the creation of this technology, bitcoin was born as a digital currency asset. I believe this has a purpose as a means of payment. and you can also hear a story of buying pizza with bitcoin. it was the first transaction using bitcoin as a means of payment.
today people's thinking may change because its value continues to grow.

Newbie to the crypto space have a greater interest in using bitcoin as an investment asset as opposed to a means of payment. This is because these people aim to profit from it rather than using it as a means of payment. Although it seem true, but I think its function as a mean of payment is not lost because of this. In the future, as the adoption of bitcoin has increased more people will be more accustomed to using it as a mean of macro and micro payment.

after all, if there is a better function why should you regret other functions that have not fully worked? after all, the problem is only because of regulation, so the function of bitcoin as a means of payment cannot be maximized. but as time went on, adoption continued to grow, some big companies started making discourses for alternative payments using bitcoin or crypto. if this is really realized then it will be even better for the development of crypto.
After all, everyone has different tendencies, some choose crypto as an investment tool, trading commodity, and a means of payment.

I just see this as a big struggle when we wanted instant but somehow, there is a time of long delays in confirmation especially when you pay the lowest pay. This gives some excuses and that is why I use to pay higher fees if I'm in a hurry but the good thing now is the fee is too small, we can set it on the maximum if we want almost instant, I think just only a few minutes it was already confirmed. Maybe sometimes we have to understand the situation but for me, being intended for a payment solution, that is still far from reality.

Bitcoin can't be limited within a small space, it has evolved as a multi-purpose asset than a payment/investment asset. The purpose on which it got developed is to give financial freedom, but the usage happened on illegal activities and on gambling in the very beginning days. This gave bitcoin a bad image, and later things slowly started to change through its growth and people started believing in it. This way it has got different purposes and it depends on the users.

How can you conclude that? Do you assume Satoshi introduced it as a digital asset? I think Satoshi just wrote on the Bitcoin whitepaper as electronic cash, which means it is purposed to be a digital currency. I didn't read if Satoshi told us to use it as a digital asset in the future. Or you probably found Satoshi commented on the forum that introduced it as a digital asset? Show me where it is? Anyway, please read again Bitcoin whitepaper https://bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf.

Bitcoin isn't strong as currency because most businesses don't accept it as payment and not because transactions take too long to get confirmed. There are many things I could pay with bitcoin and wait several hours or even days to have my transactions confirmed without any problems, but unfortunatelly I just can't. So I have to exchange my money into fiat first in order to use it, what is very pointless since I could be using that money in bitcoin. I believe if more services adopted bitcoin as payment we would see an exponential increasement in btc usage as currency.

However it's important to highlight I'm not talking about any kind of services. It must be daily high demanded services and businesses by common people, not some fancy or excentric brands.

Bitcoin can be used as an investment method, and it can also be used for payment.
Bitcoin price instability and large fluctuations make it have a certain value. Buying at a low price and selling at a high price are benefits for many investors. Many people see the profitability of Bitcoin and use it as an investment currency to get profit.
In some areas, Bitcoin can also be used for payment and use it as currency.

There are many ways to develop Bitcoin. Can be used for education, investment, technology,
Because of the emergence of the Lightning Network, Bitcoin can be used for daily payments, but some people will insist on holding it because of the value of Bitcoin.
Bitcoin is becoming more and more valuable, so more people invest in Bitcoin,
This is a good aspect. I don't think it has lost its purpose.

As you can see the on whitepaper of bitcoin, bitcoin was created to be a p2p payment method but regardless of that, if you want to transfer a huge amount of money or privacy of transactions is important for you, bitcoin can pretty useful for you because you will pay less than ten bucks for millions of dollars to be transferred, but for people who are looking to transfer a small amount of money, it's not reasonable to pay 3 dollars fee for a 3 dollar transactions. So, I would say in some cases bitcoin can be a good payment method. However, in my own idea bitcoin can be a much better investment because of the limited supply and huge growing demand, this can save you from inflection rate.

It's really used in both ways and at the same time, they work synergistically. When the demand on bitcoin for investment purposes rises, the number of transactions increases too.

But right now, I think that there is more demand on bitcoin as an investment form. And the quality of investors is very low, I mean, a lot of people enter the bitcoin market blindly and have no idea what it exactly is or what's the purpose of this coin, they just blindly follow other people.

Bitcoin lost it's purpose but it has nothing to do with the demand on bitcoin as an investment vs bitcoin as a payment form. The real reason is that Bitcoin got very regulated, people don't use it to get rid of 3rd parties, instead, we demand on them when we use crypto visa cards, exchanges, commercial payment gateways, etc.

it's true as you say bitcoin never loses its purpose, only people who are anti bitcoin say bitcoin has lost its purpose, in fact we have gotten a lot of benefits from bitcoin, we have also felt positive things from bitcoin .. if anyone says bitcoin lost its purpose, i totally disagree..

- Bitcoin has had independent purposes for many fields to enhance anonymity and security as well as provide payment value but individual bitcoin's original intentions have been disrupted by too many of us, turning it into an investment tool and erasing its personal footprint. Bitcoin has ceased to be a traditional version and maintains the old independent thinking, it's become a full-fledged investment in a sense, the old purposes haven't gone away but you or many people also realize the dwindling of these purposes, only used to advertise as feature variety of bitcoin

Reasons for Bitcoin as an investment:

1. Increasing global recognition
2. High return on investment, high cost performance
3. Security and decentralization

Just to say which aspect Bitcoin prefers depends on what benefits we hope to obtain.

I think that besides using Bitcoin as a payment method, it is a wise decision to invest at least a little bit.