Bitcoin Forum

Bitcoin price is increasing so fast such that some people wish they borrowed and bought bitcoin at 29k some weeks ago

I want to know if it's much risk to borrow and purchase bitcoin like it is to trade bitcoin. However, the market is pumping, and it may seem like a good move if the loan is not for lunch, rent, and family bills which account for our daily needs (That is, my daily needs have been taken care of). Thus, timing is another criterion to discuss. How can someone know the perfect time to pick such a desperate gamble? We win or lose in trading or holding bitcoin but, I presume with the help of experts in this forum who have gone through thick and thins in this market, good guides or rules can be shared for users and newbies in the forum to have a grip on the market and know if borrowing is appropriate. It does sound thoughtless but, borrowing is part of the business. And we must prepare for the best as well.

Thanks, I'm ready to learn.

If you have an idea about Bitcoin, you would never think so. You look at the value of Bitcoin a few years ago and now.Not long ago, Bitcoin was $ 60k, which dropped to $ 29k. Now it is $ 50k again.I mean BTC is one of the best tokens on the market. You can buy it without any worries.


Your topic is not for this thread. move the topic according to the thread

The trick is, to simply not take such gamble. Easy to say "I wish I could've" and "I wish I should've" because we already saw how the market moved. Whereas in fact, it could have easily easily went the other way. Hindsight is 20-20.

We have our own thinking, and we differ on how we perceive an investment idea. If you think that the bitcoin investment is a good investment, it's fine if you will borrow money for it, just take note that it has higher risk compared to traditional investment that we're used to.  Some people also take loan in order to invest on some of their ideas/companies that they like to start.

I don't understand what you mean about my topic and the thread. Please explain further and I will do as you said. Is it misleading?

One of the best suggestions you could get is to never borrow money to invest in a highly volatile market. You can see a lot of these "experts" make their predictions like $100K this year but none of them can actually guarantee that it will happen.

Do not compare borrowing money to start a business with buying bitcoin since you have more control on the former.

I think he's saying your topic does not belong here but on Bitcoin board.

You’d essentially be borrowing money to gamble. Despite the market recent trend being favourable, leading one to believe that he’s counted the cards and thinking that odds are in favour, there is absolutely no guarantee.

Of course one has to ponder into the equation how much he is willing to borrow, what period of time he has to give the lean back, interest type, mafia potential retaliation (if applicable), whether the plan can be altered or pushed back if needed, and so forth.

Nevertheless, the risk is notorious, and even more so if the payment period is shortish (i.e. someone taking a loan during mid-December 2017 and purchasing bitcoin at 20k$, needing to repay it a year later, when bitcoin was under 4k$). You could easily move the timeline and find hundreds of counterexamples, but the key question is could you really take the loss? (and always assume it could really happen). For the most, it’s generally not going to be a good idea.

Bitcoin is not a token like airdrop or bounty token. It is the most trusted coin on the crypto market. There is a difference between token and coin.
I do not like to borrow and invest in Bitcoin. Because the market is highly volatile. It is very difficult to predict in advance. Although in this case the investment has been worthy. I want to invest as much of my income in Bitcoin as there is in surplus.

I'm sure you know what the risks of trading and investing in bitcoin are even if you try to get forum users' opinions through the questions I've quoted.

There is definitely no risk-free investment including bitcoin investment. In the future I believe that you will hear that "the risk of investing in bitcoin will be worth the return you will get" through user comments. You must know that price can go up and down at any time and you also need to know that these fluctuation will never go away. Borrowing money to invest in bitcoin in my opinion will never be banned, you can do it. But are you really sure that you can pay off your loan at maturity when the price of the bitcoin you bought has dropped by a few percent? It's a good idea to invest only with money that you don't need in the near future, it doesn't matter if it's a small amount but you won't be burdened when the market doesn't match your expectations.

No matter how you look at it, it is a desperate gamble and there isn't perfect time for it so don't just do it because you are scared to miss the opportunity to buy. Time by time, the price of Bitcoin corrects anyway and shouldn't that the opportunity for you to buy? You're risking something that you might not be able to pay after the due of loaned/borrowed money is up.
There's a blind "what ifs" in that.

I wouldn't loan ever for the sake of investment. You could just use that borrowed money to build your business and just use whatever amount you earned from that for investment.

It's not that I discourage you, but this is where "stakes are high" comes into play.

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I think this thread fits more in Trading Discussion.

Currently cryptocurrency has become the equivalent of invested use.  Because now if someone invests in Bitcoin, there will be some benefits, which is why everyone should invest in cryptocurrency.  There are a lot of coins that if you can invest at the right time, you will definitely get benefits from it.

Some person's get it wrong, borrowing is not bad but it has two dimensions which involves advantage and disadvantages in terms of borrowing for investment especially into cryptocurrency, because a cryptocurrency is what it's insurance is up to hundred percent (%100) sure, because from my perspective it's a risk investment, the advantages comes to the process that you can as well borrow to invest into digital currency like crypto and be of profit within interval of three (3) months because of cryptocurrency market sphere, likewise it's disadvantages, you can equally borrow and invest in cryptocurrency after some hours the lost get rise than the capital. So it's advice able to start up a cryptocurrency investment with your capital to avoid heart break and early death.

IMO, it is not about weird or not. but it is about the risks.
I personally never get a loan to buy Bitcoin and then invest it.
My basic investment is only using free money that I can afford to lose if someday the market is very unpredictable and surprising like several months ago.
Fortunately when you got a loan when the price of BTC was around $29k and now it is rising enough to a higher price of more than $50k.
But, how if vice versa?

This is is your own risk-taking nad you have your own decision. But be wise and careful.

Its all about timing IMO.

I borrowed FIAT and bought Bitcoin back in February 2020, it is currently worth 5 times
more than when I bought it, It was priced at around $10k then but the key was that
it was before the halving of 2020.

The timing meant that the repayments would start before the halving with an aim to
have the loan paid off in 12 months.

Some of the questions I asked myself were:

1./ What are the weekly/monthly repayments going to be?
2./ Can I afford it?
3./ Is my job Safe?
4./ Can I take a pay cut? I.E take part of my wage and redirect it to the loan.

Essentially I pre-bought Bitcoin! instead of buying small amounts every week I bulk
bought at $10k and used those small payments I would have used to buy Bitcoin
to pay the loan.

I wouldnt borrow now to buy Bitcoin though, the reward v's risk is less IMO and there is
risk as many have mentioned.

It is too risky.

Please don't do that even if those people who have borrowed and bought when the price of bitcoin @ $29k and they're on the profit now. You can't be assured what lies ahead with the price of bitcoin.

We're all believers and holders of bitcoin but it's not that too easy and not recommended to take this solution if you can't buy bitcoin.

How weird?  It's a risk not weird.

IMO, borrowing money just to invest in a crypto isn't a good idea, we shouldn't gamble the money that we couldn't afford to lose, it could be a double-edged sword that may hurt your pocket when you can't pay the interest because it isn't the right time yet to sell your Bitcoin.
It's up to you now, at least we warned you about this, if you're willing to risk any amount for your lender, why not.

How many times I experienced this, every time I borrowed Bitcoin, right after several months the price had too much increase.  It's good if you invest fiat if a scenario like this, but if not, the chances of getting a loss are potential will happen.

That's too risky, I don't recommend borrowing money from lending firm or from banks, because you had no assurance if investment will go successfully. There are times bitcoin goes up and down, you can't be sure if price will take good gains and then your debts will going to increase and remains unpaid.
Better use your extra money for investments instead of taking a dangerous suicide from a money came from loans with amortization.

+1, this is a crazy idea, this is like you borrow money just to gamble it. It's very risky even which angle you will see.
Famous sayings about investing especially in cryptocurrency are "invest what you afford to lose" which is exactly right, you borrowed money to invest in it, so it literally means you can't afford it to lose.

It's never been something new to borrow some money and invest into an asset or any kind of investment instruments that are available to you. Most of the people who have an idea on making money borrow some so that they could make it larger and profit more from it.

For your question with regards to perfect timing, that's never going to be predictable. It's still best to average down on your investment and invest the amount you are willing to lose in the long run.

Do it if you are 100% confident in your investment venture.

For me first of all you don't borrow to make an investment, you know why? First you are not sure if the price will go up and if goes down you need to find a way to pay that debt of yours. Investing to trading is really risky and you should have capital or money that you are not afraid to lose that's why there's a saying that "Invest only what you can afford to lose".

Yes, I agree when you say borrowing is part of the business, we must prepare for the best.
But what if we lose, we have to pay the debts and that's a lot to handle since crypto is volatile. So, we have to prepare for the worst as well.

From 30K to 50K in just few weeks its a proof that its a highly volatile asset so you are not supposed to take a loan and buy bitcoin since its highly risky. Don't do it since are already reaching the new all time high so there are chances for dump again so you will lose capital as well as the mental strength.

sure bitcoin holding can be beneficial but mostly in the long term but there are deadlines whenever we make a loan so that is the only problem that i see .
i dont think that somone can guide you with this because theres still no guarantee that what happen to them can also happen to you because we all know that the value of btc is totally unpredictable and doesnt move in a followed pattern .

Don't do it, this mentality you currently have will put you in debt that might be unpayable. Although good debt are encouraged especially those you take to invest in your business but when assets that's as volatile as bitcoin is in discussion, you're advice to abstain from such practice as the market can be very unpredictable and you having your borrowed funds in the market when the corrections is happening can lead you to making decisions that'll be regrettable like panic selling.

The only time I can recommend borrowing is when you have a guaranteed source of income to payback within the expected time and the market has just presented a buying opportunity. An example is you taking a Loan to pay back when your salary get paid. Such loan though should be within your limit so Incase the market doesn't go as planned, you won't panic and still be able to clear up the debt.

Investing in Bitcoin should never be consider gambling so you don't use such mindset to follow the market if not you'll end up regretting engaging yourself with the cryptocurency industry.

It depends where you can get the money and on what conditions. Let's say you have the chance to borrow some money from your family without any interest and also with no fixed repayment plan yet. If they don't need the money and can wait a few years for getting repaid, then I think it is a decent strategy to invest in some bitcoins. In the end it is like you invest the money for your parents. But if you get the money from the bank, with a fixed interest rate and repayment plan than you might be in trouble if the market moves against you.

Think about it before making decision,  because its definitely not safe especially if you don't know how crypto investment really works, if i were you must educate your self first so that it's not useless and to prevent problems in the future as well, remember many people always end up losing money because of being lack of knowledge. So be aware to keep your borrowed money safe and you will become successful instead..

Well it isn't anything new, but definitely not something recommended. #1 rule of investing imo is to invest only what you can afford to lose. Once you invested it, always assume that you would never actually get it back in case you need money for emergencies and whatnot. I would definitely not recommend borrowing money, ever, even if it was from your family or friends who wouldn't have interest rates or whatnot when you're investing. I'd rather suggest slowly save up, even when the price is still going up, It's a lot better than borrowing money ngl, after all, who says that the market wouldn't dip right?

Don't money borrow from anyone, better work to have money to invest into it. It’s too difficult to read the charts and were out of control of what the market will be so we may not be able to pay the borrowed money at the time we need it so better, find extra job and earn then invest than to borrow for peace of mind.

Yes well explanation for the OP.
If OP doesn’t have any idea on BTC or how it works , when the price rises and falls, then it’s better not to invest in the coin.
At first understand the market first and invest little amount.
If you feel confident and earn some profits then think of investing big amount.
And if you taking loan then provide enough collateral to make the lender risk free.
Wish you all the best OP with your trade.

Speculations comes with great risk to your finances. There is broad improbability that you may never make profit!  I am of opinion that money should never be borrowed for speculating purposes.  Bitcoin however,  is solid and if you are willing to wait for your investment in bitcoin to turn to profit,  I guess bitcoin is a  good gamble!

Bitcoin is a good bet, but borrowing money for investment is still too risky. must be absolutely sure that what is borrowed will be returned at the right time and can make a profit. The speculative bitcoin market makes the risk even greater. anything can happen in an instant.
Avoiding a loan would be better, but if there is no other way and you are sure you will make a profit, the risk is the responsibility of each.

As for me, I don't think borrowing funds just to invest in Bitcoin would be a wise idea. I would rather use savings or extra money for it because Bitcoin is volatile and it could change its value anytime so there's no assurance that we could pay the money that we borrowed in time. We should know the risks of Bitcoin investment first before borrowing funds.

Borrowing money shouldn't be a big deal, it's normal when someone borrows money, people do it, companies do it, governments do it... It's when you need more cash at the moment and you don't have it, but you know you will be able to return in the future, from once or in parts.

Only that is important when you are taking a loan, it's a plan for repaying it. Don't rely on just one source, try to have backup plans for anything that can go sideways. It's how you minimize risks, how to keep yourself safe.

As long you do have other source of income which could possibly able to repay those debts or interest then it should be fine but if you are making cryptocurrency profits to be the main source for you to pay then its better not to proceed on.Even myself did really experience in the past on borrowing money when i do see some opportunity and luckily it did really paid off on where i do make profits and able to repay the loan at the same time.
Yes, it was risky but you wont really be having the chance of profits if you wont risk and also i did have other source of income which i can rely on.

It is a matter of a risk taking but there are times which risk taking isnt really worth depending on the case scenario because not all would really be having the capacity or capability in terms of finance
So its better to watch out or to be careful.

Investing in Bitcoin carries a very high risk, because the price of Bitcoin is very volatile. So I agree it is not wise to borrow money to invest
in Bitcoin. Should invest money that we can afford to lose, like using the extra money we have, not with money from a loan. If we force
an investment in Bitcoin using borrowed money, we will definitely have problems when paying the debt installments. I think borrowing money is
only for urgent needs, so I don't recommend borrowing money to invest in Bitcoin. Because it will only cause problems for us in the future.

Well in the end, you still need to repay that money. The risk at the table in here is whether you can pay or not, regardless if the OP's family needs the money or not. Here, I don't consider borrowing money from any of my relatives just yet unless it is really needed and now that we're talking about risking something that you'll still need to repay elevates the risk into higher level.

What you did is too risky.

AFAIK, it's still risky and the same as borrowing for buying bitcoin. But with what I knew about that investment you got in, the return was good before and during the hype.

And if you just did that a few weeks ago, you're going to have a long time before your ROI.

Do not do it, this is a very advanced tactic and it is one that should only be used by those that are experts in the topic, the rest of the traders which conform the 99% of the market should stay away from it, I know that it sounds tempting to do something like that but the majority of the traders cannot even obtain profits in the market with the current spreads, if you add interest rates to this then your chances that you will become profitable will drop significantly even if you are a decent trader.

The timing can be perfected especially if you wait for the bear market to happen because that's the time you should be buying. Many of the investors have figured it out already and I wish I have figured it out a long time ago. Maybe we need to wait again for the bear market and then borrow money from someone.

It will however take years for the price to go up again. So make sure the person you owe the money wouldn't be needing it badly.

Not many people can take the same risk because you have no idea if the project will succeed or not. Good thing for him, Axie is gaining its momentum and those early investors are really getting their profits already. However, this situation is not for all. I won't advise taking a loan even if it is for bitcoin investment. As you don't know the time when you are going to cash out, if that time period is favorable to you or not, you may end up selling the investments at a loss, who knows?

Investing into something which you do see that it would be having some potential then its a personal choice because not all would be risk takers which means that there might be some who do consider and there might be some who do just simply skip because they arent sure on what they are doing or just simply doesnt see any reason on why they do need to invest.There are people who are really good on looking potential projects
which it did really pay off but nothing is assured because no matter how good it looks it would still vary on the demand on the community to be considered to be successful.

Personally, it wasn't wrong to borrow money and put it into an investment but the problem is that you may have to pay the interest of the loan monthly or depending on your mutual conversation. I consider this as a problem especially when you don't have another source of income that could help you to cover and pay the interest as we know that crypto investments have no fixed profit to receive nor we are sure that we can generate some returns every month. If only we were sure about it, then we were able to pay for that even without another source of income but that was impossible and that is why I don't advise doing this (loan).

It's certainly not a good decision to borrow money to invest in bitcoin,
and most likely it can cause new problems because on the one hand the investment is not necessarily profitable and on the other hand we have to pay the money we borrowed.

Our future is the most priority here, and having a crazy idea like this was only for irresponsible person who only think about present without having any visionary on their finances. Treating this investment as a gambling won't work 100% that's why everyone should learn something effective alternatives which can be used to purchase Bitcoin without any debts behind them.

From that i know, even professional trader sometimes made mistake. Maybe with that we know that trading with loan money really have big risk. In trading we don't know when market will againts us and if we use loan money and lose we will be very miserable. But maybe it is only suggestion, decision is on themself, because there are trader success who start with loan money. But in here we talk about what mostly happen to people, use loan money and lose in trading.

When the price drops and it is known to rise up,
It is very tempting to get a high profit from the Bitcoin sales itself. Sometimes our profits can be many times and many have proven it. However, is our momentum fit to buy it and the possibility for increasing in the future is very big?
Because if not, we will actually lose a lot of money and also still have to pay money (maybe along with the interest too).

The decision to borrow money and invest in Bitcoins also depends on the kind of interest you are paying. If you get a loan with a very low interest rate then it is not a bad idea to invest some money into Bitcoins during a bull run. It may backfire but there's no profit opportunity that comes without a risk. Not buying Bitcoins at the right time is in itself a huge risk.

If the money you are borrowing carries a standard interest rate, it's not a good idea to take the extra risk. In both cases it can be profitable or disastrously bad but at least with the low interest, you get more time to sell the coins.

for someone who is just filled with lust that he should buy now and try to borrow money, I think this is a bad thing to do. especially if he is not good at trading, resulting in future losses, not to mention he has to panic sell and must return the loan on time We must be able to think clearly, because every business requires a process

It is a bad habit to take a loan for investment the risk here is much higher than needed if you can't repay on time the interest rate is higher bitcoin investments have a long wait no one can say when the price will go up the interest rate on personal loans is slightly higher than other loans while the interest rate on short term loans is also lower. But bitcoin is a longterm investment it is better to refrain from taking loans.

Lucky you for this one decision, but I'm not sure it will work well too if you intend to repeat it.
Investing or trading with borrowed money is very risky, and even if you can succeed, the profits will also decrease because you have to pay interest on the loan.
Expect profit from trading for living expenses then this will be a problem because trading can go wrong you lose and also still need to pay the loan and interest if any.

I would say that it depends on your income, or what type of income you are expecting from bitcoin. At the end of the day if you get 10k loan, and buy 10k worth of bitcoin, and you need to pay let's say $300 per month for 3 years? That means each month you need to make more money while your amount drops, first month you will not have 10k, you will have 9.7k, so it needs to cover that difference, second month it is 9.4k and you need to cover that difference.

Basically if bitcoin goes up a lot, then you can profit, like how we did in the last month, if you could get bitcoin to 50%+ increase? Then yeah you will be in profit and that is a good thing. However the right thing to do is get that 10k, and spend it on something that will get you 300 dollars per month, I don't know what it is, I don't care if it is non-crypto, it should pay you $300 or it is a bad debt, that's it.

I agree about borrowing is part of a business but investing in bitcoin shouldn't be part of the borrowing. Like most investments, they're not really advisable if you're going to borrow the money that you'll invest. And it's entirely different from running an operating business that has a better way to pay off loans. While knowing when it is the best time to pick bitcoin, there's no one that can do that. All are random and it's hard to predict for someone new if it's going to be up unless you've been here for quite a while as you'll always going to see the method of buying at the lows.

As bitcoin is pumping  now and we can expect that it would touch $100k very near, because it is going to the moon now, and as far as it will come to dip, the trader should by it and if you have the ability to hold then hold it for some time, then only it will give you much profit in the coming days, as it is the only coin that we didn't expect that what it will do next.

The top traders, which are interesting in bitcoin can hold it for a right time. Even some have holding capacity of the coins and even most of the traders didn't know how to hold and when is to sell? It all depends upon the trader own strategies that how can he manage it and which coins is going to trade.

When those traders do not know how to hold and when to sell, they will confuse determining the right time to take action related to the market situation. It is why traders need to have a plan and strategy for their investment so they can make a profit many times.

If you want to borrow money, you need to think about how you will repay the money and how long you the term for borrows that money to make a plan how you can make a profit from that borrows money. If you do not know how to do that, you will not have a chance to make a profit or repay the money.

I am totally against the decision of taking loan for investing in Bitcoin or as well as in the Crypto. Investing in crypto is a big risk but return could be profitable if the investor know what actually he is doing. (I mean the must have the knowledge of trading/investing). And if you borrow you can not guarantee when you sent back the money. Because you don't know when this the project will pump. And for example if you do lose in that investment it will affect you huge. First of all investing in crypto is very risky, also taking loan from someone also risky. So I don't support this. I will only suggest the investor to invest a amount what actually they afford to lose.

I agree, plus having the mentality that borrowing money to invest into a market you know little about it is never a good idea!

Essentially you're gambling with someone else's money where the risks could be higher because it is not your money, and because the market can go either way. Yes, it is true that BTC is projected to do very well in the FUTURE but what if it doesn't perform within the period agreed to return the amount borrowed?

Hopefully, OP you get to see the different sides of the argument and why borrowing to invest is not a tangible option -especially in a market where there're no guarantees, and a limited knowledge.

- If you are a person who opens a loan service, before lending money to someone, their economic situation is clearly the detail you need to pay the most attention to, it means borrowers need to prove their ability to repay the loan, this is not a charity service, if you don't have the right profile you won't be able to participate. Similarly, you are a person who wants to borrow money, as long as you meet the requirements of the service, the lending world will come to you and be honest with you, before borrowing money, we also know the risk and rate of return, this is a large amount of money and no one is subjective and reckless.

It is not wise to take a loan to put money into a highly volatile asset like Bitcoin. It is likely that the market will remain volatile for quite some time. I mean years, many years.
That means it is very easy to get underwater on a loan so its a bad idea.
Still a bad idea to borrow capital unless you are quite wealthy and can easily assume the cost of the loan but unless you have some way of risk managing your holdings you have uncovered risk. To give some context. When bitcoin started falling after hitting its peak Dec 2017, it took 40 months to recover to that Dec 2017 price. Then it skyrocketed 300% to peak in April 2021 when it came off again.
I run the RMAAS risk management service  (https://panxora.io/panxora-labs/treasury-management-service/)on my bitcoins. Bitcoin is still below the April 2021 peak, but because the RMAAS software hedged my position, by May 11 my entire BTC position was hedged in USD. The RMAAS model bought back in last month and my account hit new highs, and bitcoin is still $10,000 below its new highs.
I'm not advising anyone, but for me this is the right choice.

If someone who have the guts to borrow money just for this sake, I believe he/she also has the guts to repay it. But if he/she won't have the capabilities to do anything other than just to rely on the profit they get from trading, definitely, it is a big NO-NO. If I were on that person, I don't force myself to do it as this might only compromise me in the future once the result is not good and have no sustainable market gains.

Not totally a weird thing but that was a crazy decision to be made. Why not wait the moment to have enough capital? Maybe we could find a way to have some without borrowing money, just don't need to rush as surely it will come if we want to.

In that case what you do is basically just put all that investment into bitcoin, and you pay the loan back with your income. Everyone "usually" has an income, and if you do not then getting a loan will be even harder, so in this assumption it is someone who has an income that can get a loan.

So, you make 60k a month (median for USA) and you get 10k loan, you divide that to 3 years, you pay back 12k, you pay 4k a year and now your salary is 56k instead of 60k and you got yourself a "free" loan basically, of course it is not free, you just paid 2k extra over 3 years, but with inflation and the fact that 10k bitcoin today will likely be 12k+ in 3 years, we are talking about a smart move. The only downside to your proposal is that if bitcoin drops? And I would say that you already paid your loan back with your salary, so it doesn't matter, you will be fine, wait some more and you will be in profit.

Personally, when I take loans from banks, I ask myself a very simple question; Will I be able to earn more than I will pay to the bank?

If the answer is "yes" I proceed with the loan else I abort the idea.

Taking loans is never a good feeling because it creates extra pressure on your head for no reason. But like during the pandemic times,

even I took a loan and mind you, I am not someone who takes loans easily or casually.

Taking a loan just to buy bitcoins because you FEEL the price will go upwards is a very risky idea regardless of how it turns out.

In these moments of the market, where there is a high probability that at least $ 50k will be reached, it does not sound so crazy that a loan is made to buy BTC, of course the risk management is high, but it must be taken into account that in the long run term the price of BTC will reach at least + $ 60k and taking into account some prediction models that are quite accurate, such is the case of S2F, personally I would trust it and would not hesitate to lend money, I would also study the payment plans, If it is a reasonable plan under which I can pay it, I take it, now if I am very tight and I see that the payment conditions are very strong, I would not take such a risk.

In my personal opinion, making a loan at this time, that is, now, I would do it without thinking, because when reviewing the volume of BTC it is seen that it is very bullish, however it is up to the person to take it.

There are people who do make out such decisions which they dont even know if they do really able to repay and just thinking off ahead that they could make money and presume that they could really repay
the debts which is really a very wrong mindset because if things turns out to be opposite then this is where big problem do start.  Borrowing money is just a last resort because there are people whom arent
that capable in terms of finances and thats why they do really be having this kind of option on borrowing because they've seen some opportunity which they can potentially make out profits
if it turns out to be good. Borrow on the amount that you do think that you can repay on.

I feel that people take investing as a serious thing and not buying now you will miss out on everything, you don't need a fortune to invest in bitcoin and get some good profit from it so if you don't have money now you don't need to borrow or risk you life savings in order to invest, bitcoin is here to stay and for the next years the price is going to keep on increasing.

I think the point of OP is whether it's safe to borrow money to invest in Bitcoin. It doesn't matter if they were late in investing as long as they know what they are doing they should be fine but taking a loan just to invest on Bitcoin is a gamble and too risky. We always said here that to minimize the risk of losing not to increase and besides of that trading and gambling are two different things but almost the same in terms of getting profit.

We don't need luck in trading because that only applies in gambling. All we need is an experience, an experience that suffer from losses but never lose their mind when losing but instead they learned from their mistakes, that's what a trader should learn first.

Of course bitcoin is now pumping and can go again 70k$. But why you want to borrow now? Why you have not buy bitcoin when price was only 30k. I will recommend borrow money. You can invest only extra money on it and hold until you get profit.

Too risky. Investing in bitcoin is good and certainly profitable in the long run. But with the volatility of the market, no one can tell when bitcoin will rise and fall. Not only bitcoin but any investment, investment is like a gamble, only invest with the amount you are willing to lose and it can't affect your current life.

Simply because nobody knows what will happen in the future . if keep saying " if "  . just imagine what happens now that the price of bitcoin is down by 50% ( and this not impossible too ) is there still that regret? or even grateful? so this statement is relative on the basis of yes indeed the price of bitcoin is volatile. if with your own money you might be able to hold for as long as possible. but with borrowed money you will definitely find many new problems that must be faced especially repay what you borrow including the interest.

A loan is possible only if you can get a guaranteed profit on the invested funds. But there can be no guarantees in the cryptocurrency market that your investment in cryptocurrency will bring profit. And if the market becomes bearish, then you will get a loss, and besides, you will have to pay interest on the loan.

My personal opinion.

Not the right decision to make a loan at this time, the money will be used to invest in Bitcoin, you know Bitcoin for now the price is unstable, the risk is very big for you, if I may suggest you to borrow, wait for the Bitcoin price to fall and really stabilize in the lows, indeed you need a long time for that, patience.

But it's just a suggestion, it all comes back to yourself to make a loan, what is clear you have to really understand the current crypto market conditions, the chances are slim for you to achieve a good profile.

It was noticed that the majority of the replies are not recommending taking a loan, I hope OP might open up his mind or that someone who has a plan of doing this thing will also be aware of the possible problems that will occur in the future.

As just like them, I was not also preferred of borrowing money for this sake. We just have to invest the amount that we can afford. As trading won't give us assurance for a profit, might not know if you just lose it all and the hardest part is if you can't able to pay it back.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, there were some people who were looking to get rid of their BTC when the price was hovering around $29-30k.

There's never a good time to make moves out of desperation. You have used the right word, it's similar to gambling.

No doubt this forum has some of the biggest names in the community but I really doubt whether we have the best traders in this forum. A lot of traders are making money quietly and don't have enough time to help others. Also, not everyone wants to share their ideas because a trader earns money only until they keep their secrets to themselves.

Only one thing i have to tell you about bitcoin is that it can give you much profit if some traders have much patience, A trader in hurry can't get much profit from  bitcoin as it has many recent news that it will reach 100$ very soon. And adding to this it can give you a lot of profit if you are a holder.

You are only thinking about the risk you are incurring due to the interest rate that you need to pay but this is not enough, a trader that does not know how is he going to react to those adverse conditions is putting himself at a huge disadvantage, after all if the price immediately dips down after you buy those coins with that loan then do you think many people will be able to hold their coins and wait until a recovery happens? Because that is going to be very unlikely and people will accumulate huge losses, debt and they will have nothing to show for it when all is said and done.

It's weird in sense that borrowing money for investments on bitcoin with a volatile market needs assurance for huge returns.
But if you just borrowed money from a lending firm, I don't think you'll be able to pay back at the soonest time since btc market goes up and down. Most probably you'll going to suffer some struggles before you've fully paid that money. Situation became similar to gambling l, you're about to bet for a some lucky picks that has less assurance of winning.

If you do only rely with this kind of source on where you do depend on your crypto profit then its never been advisable that you do really need to take a loan for your crypto investment.

You wouldn't know on when you would make profit, what if you would lost instead? for sure it would really be a double problem since you would need to take those losses to break even and
would need to pay up some interest.

This is why I do never consider on taking up some loan unless if its really that appealing or tempting to dive in with the risk if you do really see some potential of profiting.

Not weird actually but risky, imagine you borrowed money to invest in Bitcoin and of course when you borrow money there will be a collateral or probably a interest rate and if the Bitcoin's price crash you lose your investment and you have to pay the loan money and interest so it will really give you too much trouble if you are not careful.

Borrowing money to invest is something I would consider as doubling your risk and not being weird about it.  We all know that  these are volatile markets which can go either way for your investment but if you have an asset that you can afford to let go and have the money that's a better option so that you have a piece of mind and avoid other obligations of finding funds to payback especially if it has a payback period attached to it.
But if you are a strong believer and don't want to miss out you have to do something to get funded, get a loan or something.

I don't think it is a good idea to borrow money for Bitcoin. Bitcoin price isn't easy to predict, we don't know how long Bitcoin increasing during the bullish season. The beginning of bearish can come at any time, you will be in big trouble if you buy Bitcoin with loan money. Because when we borrow money, there should be a deadline to give back the money to the owner. While we don't know when Bitcoin price can increase again as expected.

Those who have mastered trading strategies and have been trading cryptocurrency for a long time should already have enough profit in order not to take a loan from a bank. Such an idea can only come to a beginner who does not understand that the market is volatile and borrowing money to buy cryptocurrency is comparable to a casino.

Sure, everyone goes through times like this when they start regretting that they didn’t invest at a particular price and then they start thinking that it would have been best that they borrowed money to invest and pay back.

Well, I will advise you that if you’re going to be doing such a thing, just have it in mind that things can change any moment, so you should make sure that you have other means of income that you can as well use to pay back the money you borrowed if things shouldn’t go as planned. Although I strongly believe the price will go up, but the main concern here is how long it’s going to take before it happens.

Not weird at all, it's not common but it's not weird, you know what I'm trying to say? For me, it only gets weird if the payback for the loan is something other than a money or favor, maybe something peculiar like objects of interest for the lender. Also, don't try to go for a loan if you know that the interest or the payback is unfair to you and generally not worth it.

Exactly, nothing weird with borrowing money to invest into bitcoin, isn't that how big companies do their investment too, they ask for a loan to complete the project and when the project is complete, then the borrowers will start to pay the lenders.

- Indeed, almost always the lenders require a little collateral depending on the extent to which we borrow, they want to avoid the situation where we can hide and no longer refund them, of course, they are emergency saviors but also demons in the long run, they also need money to pay their rent and collaborators, nothing is free and talking about trouble can also be called small trouble as long as our work can still comfortably meet a few percent interest per month. But quite negatively is that mortgages only increase more and lose more assets, instead of paying on time

In this case, the use of leverage provided by the cryptocurrency exchange will be identical to the loan provided by the bank. And we all know about the risks of margin trading, especially for beginners. Similarly, if a beginner who has no experience in trading takes out a loan from a bank, he will most likely not be able to repay it.

The timing can be perfected, especially if you wait for a bear market to occur, which is when you should be buying. Many of the investors have already figured it out, and I wish I had figured it out sooner. Perhaps we should wait for the next bear market and then borrow money from someone. However, it will take years for the price to rise again. As a result, be sure the person you owe the money to isn't in desperate need of it.

Borrowing money and buying a speculative asset involves an insane amount of risk which could also turn your life into hell if things don't go as expected. Just imagine, what would have happened if BTC slipped just 10% after you bought your very first BTC at $29k through borrowed money check? You would panic and sell it low, then it goes high and you buy it again, this time with less USDT and you are left with less BTC now. You repeat this till you lose some significant part of your investment.

But to compare someone to a company, that's a weird type of comparison. Honestly, I'll say that it's weird to borrow for bitcoin, it's not an advisable thing to do. We all believe that someday bitcoin's price will increase but to pay off that loan of yours, whether it will be from a relative or a loaning firm, you shouldn't do that. And there's a huge difference from an operating company to an individual that borrowed money to invest in bitcoin, he'll never know when he can pay that in full through his profit from it. While a company, it has a projection on how they can be paid in full with their loans.

I was recommended to post in this thread by aoluain as he visited the WO thread.
I answered that I don't wander outside of the WO because it's too full of stupid people, so me posting this here now is against my better judgement, but I'll do it anyway.

First some background information.

My text below was originally posted in the WO thread, WO is short for "Wall Observer BTC/USD - Bitcoin price movement tracking & discussion" in the Economy-Economics-Speculation board.
It's a very special thread, it's a self moderated, free speech thread where most things will pass, including racial slurs and bad language and what have you, without you being banned or deleted, if you don't like somebodys postings you use the "ignore" button or make a counter argument, you do not try to get the person blocked or deleted.
Your banners or other things you display for money are not visible in that thread, so you only get people who post because they have something to say rather than people who post to make money.

This is the thread where the famous hats originated, they are made by our hat maker xhomerx, this is also the thread where some of the oldest bitcoiners hang out, people who acquired their bitcoins in 2011 or earlier and are now buying a lake in Canada (Jimbotoronto) or a giant farm in Texas (Bob)  or trying to start his own seastead nation offshore (Elwar)
This is also the thread where you will find the latest news first, mixed with a lot of pleasant nonsense.
This is where the high IQ people post (and some others) and this is where we write haikus every sunday.

I myself bought the bulk of my bitcoins in 2013 at around 300 USD.

Why did I decide to buy right now?
Well, we all know that bitcoin moves in four year cycles that are governed by the four year halvings, we all also know that the last four/five months or so of these cycles are characterized by an insane up curve.
We entered this four year cycles insane last four/five months on the 20th of July, and I'm going to make a little experiment and use the bank to make some pocket money for myself without putting any of my own money into the experiment.


So here's my post from the WO.

"So, I bought some BTC today for the first time since 2014.

I decided to do a little experiment, I was offered a loan from a company (Qliro) and accepted, I borrowed 20 000:- (about 2300 USD), I set aside four months worth of payments on the loan (this will be used to pay of the loan for the coming four months) and bought btc for the rest (17500:- (about 2000 USD)) and I put those btc in a separate wallet.

Now I'm going to sell these btc in December when we go skyrocketing and the little experiment here is to see how much money I will make on this.
The plan is of course to repay the loan in full in December and do something fun with the profit.
I have been offered to up the loan with another 50 000:-, I might do that, still thinking about it.

So, as you can see the whole point is to make money without having to put in any of my own."

I have since accepted the offer of another 50 000 SEK, the money should hit my bank account on Monday.
I update regularly in the WO and might do it here as well, I am however not here to debate, I do that in the WO, where you are most welcome to join. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=178336.588120

On the topic of volatility. Btc is very volatile short term but very reliable long term. Anyone who buys and holds for four years will make a profit, short term however, it's impossible to foresee any bitcoin movement, and trying to play the short term volatility is pure stupidity. The exception to this is the very last part of the four year cycle that we have just entered.

To answer the question "is it weird to borrow..." No of course not.

Have a good Sunday and feel free to pop in to the WO and write a good Sunday haiku.
If it's a good, well written haiku you might even get some merits for it.

A haiku by the way, is a three line poem with five syllables in the first line, seven in the second and five in the third.
Like this.

Borrow money now
Buy bitcoin for that money
Enjoy the profit.

Edited a gazillion times.

very different when talking about a pro trader that working for company, trader manager surely had more backup money which makes the trade last longer and makes the final profit.  not like someone who uses borrowed money from where else he covers when the main money is still in a minus position.

I have only recently seriously began to read WO even though in this forum a lot for years now. I like the vibe there but yes, it does feel a bit too experienced for the likes of me. In fact, I never really stopped feeling that way since I join, although slightly more confident in this year especially.

Borrow what you can,
Buy what will not make you cry,
Always safety first.

I have an experience on it and would suggest not to go for borrowing and investing. What will happen when we borrow and invest? We will expect an income every month to pay back the money if we have promised the lender. Market is volatile. So at times, we may not get what we expected. We have to wait. So better do not go for borrowing. But if in case you are doing so, don't commit a near date to pay back. Invest in the best coin.

Borrowing money to make an investment in bitcoin is not really advisable but possible. Not advisable because of the risks that a money doesn't have an assurance that you may gain a good profit out of it and could return the money you've borrowed on a specific time and possible because i'm sure that one of us here have tried it. There's nothing wrong with this idea to be honest but if there's any other way to start an investment than borrowing then it is better to make this idea on the last of your list. Still at the end of day we should learn to risk only the amount taht we are afford to lose.

I would prefer you invest your personal money so you know the risk you are involving your self into we all know bitcoin is correcting the previous dip we experienced months back but understanding that crypto investment is all about risk will help you minimize the risk of getting trapped in your own debt. Stick to the amount you can afford by your self and invest with it the crypto so you don't seek ways on paying back when the plans fails out

I have said this many times before, if your non-crypto income is good enough then you should take out a loan, it is always profitable for you in the long run. Remember fiat is something that loses value over time, so if I take out a loan that I have to pay 500 bucks a month for 10 years, in 2030 that 500 bucks will be nothing, it will be tiny compared to how much I make, and from today to until that day it will gradually become less and less valuable over long period of time.

But if I buy bitcoin with the loan, then in 10 years it will be HUGE amount, it will 10x if in 10 years and maybe more, of course this is just a guess but if you paid your debt with your salary, then what bitcoin did is unimportant, even if it stayed the same then you are not in much trouble. Long story short debt is not bad if you use it wisely and can pay for it, but if you do not have any money at all, and no income, then taking out a loan is insane.

Never been ideal on borrowing or taking up some loan for you to invest but there are instances which you do really seem to be worth and make out loan for that.

Its a matter of risk taking and not all people does have that kind of similar level and this is why we do see several outcomes basing up on the decision that they made.

We do have different perception on things neither those things we do get involved might be successful or not.So outcomes would really vary.

Well, it is very obvious that borrowing money is not good at all just to use in trading. Because trading is a sort of gambling as we consider, there is no guarantee that there is a good return to it, it is always been risky to us. So the best thing to do is use the money that you can afford to lose and if you don't have capital in it, I don't think is risking other money to use and you are responsible for it is a good idea. I prefer not to continue and pursue my trading if I don't have spare money to spend on trading, --it made you to have a head ache when you got a problem.

That's right.

As you promise to the lender, you have no choice but to keep it up and follow what was in the contract. The pressure is on you and times might not be good for you if you wholly rely on the crypto profits.

For which sometimes are in losses and not that much in profit.

in investing bitcoin of course we want profit and I think each person has their own perception of the capital they have. some use their own capital and others borrow money as it is said. if you can manage it well of course it won't be a problem, but if we are still in the learning stage then I recommend not borrowing money for the need to buy bitcoin. we don't know what the result will be whether we will get the profit or even lose. even so, that does not mean that bitcoin investment is detrimental, it all depends on how we handle our own assets.

People who did this is like gambler who mortgage his house not thinking if he will be loss in trade. It happens to the people way back 2018. Where many sold their houses and decided to live in their cars. Imagine the whole family bet bitcoin will rally from 15k to 100k, but happened is Bitcoin crashed from 19k to $2k. Not sure what happened to those who sold their houses , did they live in their cars from 2018 to 2021?

Its not advisable to borrow money or have a loan just to invest on bitcoin because we never holds the future, anything unexpected can happen in this highly volatile market.

Even we know investing in bitcoin is profitable, but still, we dont suggest to invest the money that you cant afford to lose, so what more if it is borrowed? Definitely its not a wise decision to do.

The profit is not guaranteed here and there's no timeframe when we can profit because it can take a long period. Thus think before investing and plan using your own money that you can afford to lose if ever something went wrong.

It's too risky and what will the borrower do if he lost the borrowed money ?
It's like gambling

For most of us here, that is really weird since it was not advisable but then, you can still do it if you want. That was your choice either and we can't stop you from doing as it was for legal purposes but don't just ignore what we/people are saying around you. As investing takes months or somewhat it takes years to have a decent return and from that long gap where we don't have income, it is certainly a struggle on your part. Well, if you have some side hustle that will find and could help to cover-ups but if you are solely relying on the profit of your investment, absolutely not a great idea.

First of all, there have been a lot of posters here posting about crypto or talking about crypto, and we are not talking about "crypto" in this thread.

Op specifically asked about bitcoin, so fuck the nonsense talk about crypto, even if some of the similar principles regarding use of credit could be applied.

Surely, it is not weird to borrow money to invest, whether we are referring to investing in bitcoin or anything else, but it would be irresponsible (and unduly) risky to borrow without some kind of decently concrete plan regarding how the money is paid back, and having some back up ways to pay back, in the event that the investment goes south.

Of course, many forum members are likely familiar with various terms that Michael Saylor created or structured with various Microstrategy loans that were 4 years or more and some of his financing went to 7 years or did not constitute a loan at all but a possible dilution of MSTR share prices.  With bitcoin as the underlying investment there can be a lot more confidence that having loans that play out for 4 years or longer will have much higher likelihoods of being able to pay back the loan with the proceeds in the investment itself (referring to bitcoin, here)..

There are surely advantages and likely more options when having enough credit or collateral to be able to structure loans for longer periods of time.

The three most sound ways to buy/accumulate bitcoin is to lump sum invest, DCA and buy on dips.  Many times normies do not have a lot of money in order to lump sum invest into bitcoin or anything else, so they will resort to a combination of DCA and buying on dips, and even buying on dips requires some holding of value in reserves in order to take advantage of price drops when (or if) they occur.

Surely, getting a loan does allow people to leverage more of the ability to lump sum invest and buy on dips, and perhaps there would be a tendency to attempt to use the money for lump sum investing or frontloading, but there might also be some utility that could come from holding some value in reserve to buy on dips, even though we can never really have a lot of confidence if a dip will occur, how far it will go or how long it will last.

As far as use of loan money to buttress a cashflow or investment, there should be some need to consider cashflow for the term of the loan and back-up payback resources, and surely the terms of the interest rate of the loan should also be considered, so if someone is able to land a loan for $24k for 2 years with an annual interest rate of 6%, the minimum monthly payments may well be over $150 per month, and at the end of the two years of monthly minimum payments, nearly $3k would have gone towards interest, and $23.3k would still be needed to pay off the balance of the loan at the end of the two year term.

There are a variety of ways to attempt to assess whether such a loan would be valuable, and surely any loan can help with managing of cashflow, and some loans might require payments to be spread out through the term of the loan rather than allowing for a lump sum payment at the end, so the same loan for $24k might require $1,064 monthly payments in order to fully service the loan by the end of the 24 month period.

Terms of the loan may well depend on your credit, and surely some loan terms are going to cause the loan to be more manageable and potentially profitable than other terms, and I don't mind the idea of using leverage so long as you sufficiently understand the payback obligations and you account for the ability to pay back the loan in its entirety without relying on upwards performance of the asset.

I do also understand and appreciate the shorter-term scenario (and loan) of only 4 months set forth by Arriemoller in his earlier post in this thread (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5356144.msg57808459#msg57808459), and surely there is a bit of gambling on a short-term theory that is described, and sure the odds could be a wee bit in his favor, and if he is prepared to pay back the loan from other sources in the event that his gamble does not pay off, then he is preparing himself financially and perhaps psychologically for the risk that he is undertaking..

By the way, I am surely familiar when guys assign probability values to their expected scenarios that are quite a bit higher than reality, so in the cases in which the bet (BTC price in this case) moves against them, then they end up being damaged both financially and psychologically ... surely having the financial preparations in place can help with the psychology in the event that the market were to move opposite of expectations.

Bitcoin is high on volatility its price always moved and changing, you must know how hard to hit a moving object because Bitcoin is something like that it always moved and you need to hit it with you're limit price to win it, I believe in Bitcoin and holding it is really profitable if you have patience, but if you are greedy and lack of patience just find another ways to earn.

Actually, you seem to be making another decent point, rhodelmabanal.  There is a certain aspect of bitcoin in which you do not need to use any kind of leverage in order to have the potential of profiting stupendously from even being involved in bitcoin. 

There are so many normies who have failed/refused to take any kind of meaningful stake in bitcoin, so even a less aggressive BTC accumulation strategy may well end up contributing a lot of UPside in the future.  Of course, more aggressive BTC accumulation strategies are likely to fair somewhat better, but there are not guarantees of course, but the nature of an asymmetric bet does involve appreciating the asymmetric nature of it allows for multiples of possible price appreciation based on whatever value does end up getting put into it.

It is not weird, but it is very risky. The first rule of investing in crypto currencies (bitcoin) is to make sure you can afford any losses. But since you are borrowing money, it means you don't have any extra money that you can lose. You are just gambling and trying out your luck. There is a chance you might lose a portion of your investment and then fail to return the money. If you are very confident that you can pay back the money you have borrowed, then go ahead and invest. Or else, just return the money. Try saving some and then invest.

There's something strange about your framing of the issue, adzino. The future is not known and is not knowable, especially regarding some kind of dynamic (BTC price performance) that relies on a variety of happenings and the behavior of many other humans.  The best that any of us could do is to assign some kind of a percentage probability, and sure there could be a 90% likelihood that the BTC price had been 12% or more higher ($52,864) in two years (as compared to what it was at the time of the origination of the loan (let's say $47,200)), but most likely the odds are not even going to be close to 90%, they are going to be more like 45% at best, but maybe out of the range of possibilities, 45% seems quite high.. because there might be a 24% chance that the price goes down, and 31% chance that BTC price goes sideways or UP and never sufficiently surpasses supra 12% levels for a long enough period that OP ends up cashing out in such a way to make his loan profitable.  Of course, the plan should be to be able to pay pack the loan no matter how bitcoin performs in the next two years, and surely the calculation of odds might be that the BTC price is likely to be high enough to be profitable.

Let's take the 45% chance of UP more than 12%, and I am not even sure if that is a realistic number, but if the odds can be divided up that the BTC price could get to:

$52,864 or higher = 45%

Between $53k and $80k = 9%

Between $80k and $120k = 15%

Between $120k and $300k = 9.5%

Between $300k and $600k = 6.5%

Between $600k and $1.5million = 3.5%

$1.5million or higher = 0.5%

So, even with these kinds of odds, there is potential that such employment of a loan could pay off stupendously, even though the odds for getting 12% or greater higher than today's price might only be around 45%, but those odds of getting above $52,864 might be considered amongst the most likely of all of the possible scenarios with some potential of achieving some way higher price points to the upside, but still far from guaranteed for any of this, because there are down scenarios, too.. but just based on a series of possibilities that ultimately are not known currently the scenarios end up becoming known after the next two years plays out.

Borrowing money to start with your investment is definitely a normal thing that most investors do but it also depend on what kind of investment you are entering. When it comes to crypto, i don't think it will be a good idea to lend your capital because there is no guarantee as to when you will gain profits and how high it will be. So you are more into gambling than investing to double your profits.

Well, borrowing money might be reasonable too if you have other source of income that can pay your loan but if you are only dependent on crypto, then better earn first before making an investment.

That's the FOMO effect. People panic when bitcoin is pumping hard and they all want in at that point. Humans are a greedy bunch so whenever we see an opportunity to satisfy our greed we go for it. When there is a dump no one fomo to buy instead they panic sell
 Fomo only pumps price of cryptocurrency, spreading fud has become a tactic for some community managers. Members of the community go on to other groups to spread the fud and boom! An apocalypse

Has anyone tried the numbers? Looking at one published rate of lending for BTC loans (providing your BTC as collateral), I was wondering if this was a form of DCA by borrowing and investing into more. So instead of buying BTC every day or every month as in DCA. You pay off a loan every day.

So look and tell me if my numbers are bad.

1. Loan 80% of BTC collateral value at APR 12%. So if I put in $10000 of BTC I get $8000 to buy more BTC and I have to pay back daily till I pay back $8960.
2. In total, I am down $960 after a year, which I pay daily $24.55, of which $2.63 is the interest.

But this way I increase rightaway my BTC by 80% and am forced to pay for it every day, like enforced DCA in a roundabout way. I feel like I could consider it, only the problem is locking it in the platform for one whole year.

I think that the vast majority of the loan programs that allow posting of BTC as collateral are too risky and too expensive.  12% is high as fuck for an interest payment.. especially for such a great asset such as BTC... You should not have to pay that much interest when you are providing such a great asset (of course, volatile and lack of competition might be reasons that they are willing and able to charge such high rates and BTC HODLers end up using those programs).  Risk is high for leaving BTC with a third party, including the amount of collateral that you likely have to post in order to be safe from being  liquidated and risk is high that you could lose those BTC (sudden drop in BTC price causing insufficient collateral or exit scam or just other risks of having a third party hold your BTC)...

I would not do it, personally, even though I am not opposed to getting a loan of perhaps 6% or less interest rate for BTC

For sure I have not been referring to anything other than BTC for what you are investing into, and guys in this thread are continuing to use vague-ass term for investing into crypto whatever the fuck that is.. we are talking about BTC, here.. now if you are using various crypto (not BTC) for your collateral or the various schemes involving a variety of shitcoins, then that adds additional risk that may be stuff that guys might be willing to explore, but maybe it is another topic too because those programs are likely all over the place in terms of their complications and what kinds of risk you would likely be taking.

In essence, I am not opposed to the idea of using a loan in general as a way to buttress your cashflow and to buttress either your lump sum investing or your buying on dips abilities as can be inferred by my above two posts, but don't mix DCA investing up with this because getting a loan likely takes away from your DCA investing abilities, so seems to be muddy thinking to suggest that getting a loan is kind of like forcing you to DCA in terms  of paying back the loan.. blah blah blah.. nonsense...   In any event,  the terms of the loan need to be considered and putting any part of your BTC stash at risk needs to be considered too.. and for me those kinds of risks would outweigh the possible benefits, but surely guys without capital sometimes will engage in risk or leverage to get capital, but then end up with even less capital or no capital if they are taking too many risks (layering risk upon risk) with an already risky asset (referring to BTC)...

...and like I already mentioned too.. the asymmetric nature of bitcoin can allow a lot of folks to get rich as fuck without really having to take a lot of risks, and DCA is one of those methods.. but it still is likely to take time.. and perhaps a bit less time if you have a more aggressive DCA approach (within your means).. so taking risks might end up either preventing you from becoming rich as fuck, or cause your own upside potential with BTC to play out way smaller, even though you are taking the risk because you are attempting to accomplish the opposite (to get rich quicker than you would have without taking such additional risks). 

It is a funny problem to have, and one that I could possibly never have. The reason for that is the fact that I never get a loan, in fact banks stopped offering it to me as well so now if I ever want to get a loan then I can't, because I never got one and for them that means they do not "know" me, and that's why they can't loan it to me. I am fine with that by the way, never got a credit card, never got a loan, never worked with banks aside from the fact that I have to have my money in them, but that's about it really, I even withdraw nearly all my money each time I get a salary.

In my nation you can't get the salary in cash, it has to be deposited to the bank and that's about all there is for me. Long story short banks suck and if you do not want to work with them that's fine, but if you want to get their money and use it to buy bitcoin that's even better lol.

I would say consider that with fiat and a bank and you got yourself a great deal, do it with bitcoin collateral place and not so much. Normally in USA banks the interests are much much lower and you never have to lock your money neither, you just take out a 8k loan, pay back much less in a year, like 8.4k total or something (depends on your credit score of course) and then you will end up with a great deal of return over long period of time.

This way you are paying less, getting your DCA sort of, and you can pay less plus the good side is if you have other income the amount is so cheap that you could potentially pay that back with your regular income as well, the upside is that instead of you buying bitcoin directly with your money slow by slow, you are getting in all at the same time so if the price goes up then you are in big profit as well.

For many of the same reasons I have also held off on doing the same, but I know people who did it from 2019 so they are now 2 years into doing it and so far safely. Hence almost tripling their original BTC owned, while paying off the 12% interest easily by selling BTC that has gotten pricier. I guess one has to enter these risky collateral holding during a bear market and then ride the rally as they have been doing the entire year.

I'm also not against borrowing to invest, only problem is the only collateral I have is BTC!

Borrowing as much you can afford to pay back is fine. Crypto market is highly volatile, I won't take such risk for investment.

Even if you can afford to pay its still not ideal option to do since you already lost with the interest given from borrowed money plus we can also add up the real time value where there are instsnce that you lose a $ due to volatility thats why this borrowing ideas is not good to and since as stated we can afford then much better to save up some amount and once we reach to target capital then use it for investment on bitcoins.

First off, in response to jasonperez, we are talking about bitcoin here. .not crypto... what the fuck is crypto?  some vague idea.. if you mean bitcoin, then just say it, if you are talking about something else, then you are in the wrong thread.

Secondly:  overall I agree with the idea of borrowing as much as you can afford to pay back as being an acceptable approach to the matter of investing so long as you have weighed other aspects such as risks and various potential trade-offs.

Sure the interest rate should be considered (in this example 12%) and would not necessarily be a deal breaker in and of itself.  So the questions should be how you would pay back such loan, and hopefully you have funds that would be separate from expecting that your BTC investment is going to necessarily appreciate in value for the duration of the loan (or sometime in the middle) or even appreciate more than 12%, but of course the investment is profitable once it is worth more than 12% (per year) than how much it cost for the loan.  .. so of course, if the loan were for 2 years then it would be 12% for the first year and then another 12% the second year.. so if the loan is longer than a year, then it adds up to more than 12% overall.. so that surely needs to be kept in mind too in terms of how much the loan would be costing you... and frequently loans are compounded daily, weekly or monthly, and they do not give you the luxury of compounding at the end of the year.. which such compounding can cause the real costs to even be more than 12% per year in a kind of theoretical sense.. but most loan providers are going to have minimum payments that require the payment of at least the interest amount... and of course, some of the differing loan arrangements should be considered in terms of trying to understand how much the loan is costing and whether there might be advantages to even balloon paying the loan in the event that the loan provider allows minimum payments to be less than the amount of interest.

Another contemplation should be whether there might be some advantage in getting the loan in order to take advantage of front loading your investment into BTC because getting a loan gives you options to both front load with lump sum investing and it also gives you more abilities to have money for buying on dips . .and sure any DCA investing would have the option of front loading that aspect rather than just investing as the money comes in.. presumably you would have a cashflow.

A part of the proposition that slaman29 made that would be a deal-breaker for me, is putting your BTC up for collateral, and that would be a road too far for this cat... absent some kind of situation that I might consider the BTC price to be in a clear and unambiguous price dip that the market was not then currently recognizing, so in those kinds of circumstances, there might be some justification in terms of putting some of your BTC up for collateral for such a loan.  Another aspect of putting BTC up for collateral would be how much BTC are you putting up for collateral.. is it more than 10%? more than 50%?(holy fuck that's a lot).. 80% to 100%.. (holy holy fuck?) 

Even if I were to conclude that I am willing to put some of my BTC up for collateral, I could not really appreciate putting more than 10% or maybe 20% if I was really risk inclined, and if BTC is the ONLY asset that you have, then that might also be a pretty damned strong sign that you are not in a strong enough financial position to be putting your ONLY asset up for collateral, and what the fuck are you doing?  Are you gambling rather than investing?  I have troubles relating to gambling your way into investing, so maybe if the ONLY asset that you have is BTC, then you need to be fucking building your portfolio more than to be leveraging with the ONLY thing that you have.. and yeah, I know peeps do not want to hear that... but if you maybe are fucking around with 10%-ish of the ONLY asset that you have, then there might be some reasonableness in that. 

In the end, each of us have to decide for ourselves how many risks that we are willing to take, and how to consider the various trade-offs, and surely sometimes some of us might get lazy in terms of considering the risks and trade-offs, so then surely we are getting into gambling rather than investing with that kind of an approach.

Firstly, gambling with borrowed money is a huge risk and it is not advisable that one should engage in such, why? because trading could go either way, it's a game probability!  Secondly,  desperation will lead to panic, and panic will lead to making trading mistake.  So,  there is no need to FOMO on bitcoin, your entry price is what matter in the short term.  And if you don't have good entry point,  you may not really make much in profit at the end of day!

Well, I don't know about you @op but I will never borrow money, (no matter how small), to invest in bitcoin or crypto, to me, borrowing to invest in crypto is a very wrong decision, the truth is, you will never have peace of mind as long the loan remains unsettled, and another thing is that, one might even get a high blood pressure or hypertension due to restlessness when the price of bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general stay down for a longer time than expected, one begins to worry alot and there by attracting lot of emotions that's not healthy for the well being the individual.

Better be contented with that which you have no matter how small, invest it wisely now and in the near future, you will have alot to even invest more, don't go kill yourself while you still young by borrowing to invest in crypto.

Why is DCA so successful with bitcoin?  It is not because of entry point, exactly, it is more about having a long term commitment to accumulate BTC and with the passage of time bitcoin has both prov en to be profitable and likely to continue to be profitable.

My point is that there is a bit more going on in bitcoinlandia beyond mere entry point, even though entry point is one of the factors, it is not the ONLY factor.

In regards to your point about gambling, there are a variety of ways to set up your BTC accumulation that does not rise to the level of gambling, so it would be problematic to suggest that anyone getting a loan in order to "invest" in bitcoin would necessarily be gambling merely based on the fact that they are getting a loan... You might need to flesh that point out better in terms of what you might be wanting to communicate to some of us who may well consider some of these matters differently.


I don't know why you feel some need to convolute ideas about bitcoin and crypto.. Op did not say anything about crypto.. he was ONLY referring to bitcoin.. so maybe you want to say the same thing about bitcoin, but maybe you should go back through your post and change all the words to bitcoin and figure out if you want to say exactly the same thing or not.

Also, your point about never borrowing money probably shows that you are not really coming at this matter from a very objective point of view in terms of perhaps you don't even know how the real world works, at least in regards to how debt can be used to your advantage.  I am not saying that you have to borrow money for anything, but your locking yourself into an assertion of "never" suggests that either you do not understand borrowing or you are not really attempting to grapple with the topic in an open-minded kind of way.

Investing in something to be productive and a winner for the investor has only a single unwritten law.The law is you only borrow money you know for sure you are able to repay no matter if your investment goes bad and you lose your invested money,this does not hurt you in any way as you still has money to pay the interest.This can be done when for example you are working in two daily jobs and the perfect opportunity i.e 29k for a Bitcoin happens in a moment you have no money but you know for sure you will get two salaries when the months end.In this case you take the low risk of borrowing money in order to take advantage of this perfect opportunity.It is that simple.Borrowing money knowing you are not sure that you can repay it if your investment fails then this is totally not recommended to do.

Weird or not, can be subjective. Each person can have a different opinion about this. In my personal opinion, it is not weird but too risky. Always remember that investing in Bitcoin is a high risk. There is no guarantee that Bitcoin price continues to grow its value in the future. We don't really know if Bitcoin can have an uptrend or downtrend after we bought Bitcoin. Also, we cannot target a specific amount of profits got from Bitcoin investment. So, it is much better to use money that we can afford to lose.

True and every decision would really be having corresponding risk specially when you do took a loan.For sure people are aware that they should repay interest on time or due date or else they would really be having some serious problems with debt and this is why we should not only think twice but thrice or more when considering on taking a loan on making some investment.If you do have other source then this wont be an issue
but this is only your main source for you to get then dont consider this thing.It is way too risky but if you could handle and accept the risk then go ahead and try but be prepared on things to happen.

That actually if we only have the option not to borrow money, it is really great. But somehow, some people make use of this loan very often as they are in a hurry to invest when the market is dumping and have no money yet. Some got the reason and as long as they can pay for it with the terms provided, that is not a problem for both parties.

But if it is just done by newbies, I'm afraid that be going a failure. That is really a risk and it was the risk for the person who gave the loan as it is possible that once the borrower will fail that certainly, it compromises the payment.

Because newbies are not careful enough and more than likely will make the wrong decision. You have the advantage if you are already long enough in this market that you have seen a lot and that will give you the edge in making smart decisions. But taking a loan is for me not still advisable. Unless, you have other source of income that you can use to pay if in case you got it wrong in the trading market.

Basically it's not weird, because they very believe and are confident in price movements... they dare to do this. It's just like being more willing to take more risks, which in fact doesn't really promise a profit, it's not worth doing due to price fluctuations, and having to cut profits when got a profit on the investment.
We should be smarter to respond to all the efforts that will be made, not to be more daring to take too many risks, but must actually be able to make safer decisions.

Gambling with borrowed funds is a common but like you said, a dangerous idea. But I think when it comes to investing in Bitcoins with borrowed funds then it is a completely different thing because you aren't gambling but investing in an asset. At some point, we all take risks in life and while gambling is not the risk worth taking, investing in Bitcoin might be worth it.

Sometimes playing too safe in life is itself a risk. If you haven't ever taken a risk in life, you probably haven't explored all the options. I am not suggesting to invest blindly in bitcoin or anything but taking risks is not always the worst idea either.

Far too risky for me.

I don't know what they mortgaged to have such confidence, most of them are just apprentices and have just completed a few basic training courses, even testing their competence on simulation programs and we all know the reviews from software and courses that never want to embarrass anyone, they allow comforting numbers while if you put that achievement into practice, that apprentice will definitely need to start over with a more practical program. The training furnace is too polite to them and as a result they are borrowers who then become debtors in investment

If you borrow money from someone then you have to repay that money at some point. And you will always have the thought that I have to pay.If you invest in Bitcoin here, you can get a lot of profit from Bitcoin at one time, but always keep in mind that the market will not decrease or increase. I think borrowing money from people Better a poor horse than no horse at all.

A responsible person don't even think to run with his loans, it will reflect your personality and reputation if you're not going to pay your debt.

Well, the fact is the market can do both, increase and decrease but at unknown times.

Well, its your choice anyway if you want to borrow money for the sake that your gonna use it to buy Bitcoin then hold for the long term.
I don't see any problem with that if you have a good vision about it. But if your not deeply knowledgeable about in Bitcoin, I suggest borrowing money for this is not a good financial advice in my own opinion only.

This doesnt talk about being knowledgeable or not but this do mainly matters if you do able to repay those debts or interest on the right time? Bitcoin or crypto investment isnt something
that you could get some assurances for you to make profits on a specific time that you do desire.You shouldnt have this kind of mindset because this will really make mistakes
and only invest on what you could afford to lose and dont make loans if you wont able to repay it and you are just simply putting yourself into big trouble.

Im quite sure the OP had enough knowledge about Bitcoin since he knew how much Bitcoin have been increasing from a few months ago. Also, when you're investing your due diligence is the most important step before putting away your money.
Borrowing money to invest in a highly volatile asset isn't always advisable and is not a good financial advice as it will contradict the most basic rule of investment "invest what you can afford to lose."
However, there are some exemption from people who are willing to take the biggest financial risk in their lives.
Now, I don't really recommend to have a loan just to invest in Bitcoin, but If you're eager to buy in bulk, just make sure you're making enough money to pay for your loan's term.

Another option would be, to accumulate gradually, fraction by fraction everytime you make money instead of using that money to pay for the loan. In this method you will be able to save yourself from interest fees and possible charges in case you missed your due.

Good or not, pros or not, can afford or not, risk-taker or not - everyone shouldn't take a loan just to invest in crypto.

Take it slowly by surely. Buy some small fraction that is fit to budget if there's a chance. Find other sources of income then have a portion of salary to be put on crypto. After doing it for quite some time, you will notice your hold asset is now increasing.

Don't feel regret that you didn't loan before and the price goes up. What if the other way around happened. That's more depressing as you just wrecked yourself and need to find a way to pay your loan.

In general, borrowing money for crypto investment is never a good idea. You are likely gambling your money instead. I think even if you know you can repay it but it will be more ideal if you can only invest on your spare money so that if you happen to lose, you won't have to dwell on regrets.

Although bitcoin is very profitable but still there is no guarantee of sure profits since the market is highly volatile too. What goes up today might suddenly fall down tomorrow so learn to be more flexible. We know its a high risk investment so as much as possible have your own funds so you won't think of repaying loans either the market goes into bullish or bearish.

That's right, it's really not recommended to invest in Bitcoin using borrowed money. with the volatile Bitcoin price, it becomes very high risk if
we force borrow money to be able to buy Bitcoin in large quantities. I prefer to buy Bitcoin regularly every month, use the money that we will
use to pay the loan installments to buy Bitcoin. This method is much safer and more effective in my opinion, and we benefit more from not having
to pay interest on the loan. But in the end it comes back to each of us, if indeed there are people who dare to take risks and are ready to bear
all the risks that will occur. Just try investing in Bitcoin with borrowed money, but don't blame Bitcoin if you end up having financial problems
if it turns out that Bitcoin doesn't move as expected.

It is not weird to borrow money as there is a reason why you have to do that, in fact, many people had come that way but for me, even reading the majority of replies, it was not recommended due to the high risk. I'm not literally saying you will have to lose in investing in Bitcoin but the problem is that you can't tell when you can make a profit from your investment which makes it hard to pay for your loan. Maybe, if you have another source of income it wasn't a problem anyway but if you just rely on crypto, that gonna be hard for you.

Borrowing money may just seem so annoying but its what most of our big investors are really doing. But i don't think it will be good when it comes to crypto investment because the riks is very high and you could just lose your money in just an hour so taking the risk of money lending could only give your more troubles in the future.

However, there are also those who come to enjoy their profits from borrowed money but it just happen very seldom. Most of them have gradually lose their funds and even made their life worst due to unpaid loans and its increasing amount of interest. So just invest on your own money and see where it goes.

Some people successfully borrowed $20k with total interest per year is at around $2k and they managed to make $20k to $150k in just 6 months! $130k surplus and $2k minus to pay off the interest.

that was the sweet part of the story and people always look at it without considering the other sides of the story.
we called them noob , a noob in living a good life ... they are looking for the shortcut to become a multi-millionaire , living good etc based on nothing but specualtion.
borrowing money to invest in crypto is a pure speculation and even a gamble, thats all.

I was thinking the same thing today, in my nation for about 6.2k dollars you could get a 12 rx470 4gb mining rig, and 3 axies that are not bad at all. That 12 gpu 470 rig would give me around $13 per day, which is around 400 dollars a month, and it is going to continue most probably, its "safe" investment, not guaranteed but you can probably make a profit even if its lower or higher.

Secondly that axie depends on what you can do, you will be getting a starter level of course and nothing great, but you will be able to get at least 100 SLP per day for sure, without a doubt, probably 150-200 as well but let's assume its "only" 100 slp, at the current prices that is another 12 dollars per day, making you another 360 dollars per day. So on minimum even if there is a bigger amount chance, you are making around 750 dollars per month with just a 6.2k investment, making all of it back in around 8 months. I didn't do this because I got scared, but sometimes taking out a loan is simply not that much of a bad idea at all, just depends on what you want to do with it.

When you are into cryptocurrency I believe one of the things you should never do is borrow money to invest in any coin because anything can happen at any time so I believe you shouldn't take the risk. Must people can be saying a coin will pump hard which at the end the coin might endup dumping so never borrow money to invest.

We are not talking about "cryptocurrency" in this here thread; we are talking about bitcoin.

Hopefully you understand the difference.

I know you are talking about bitcoin but and even generalizing it that is not a good idea borrowing money to invest in bitcoin or other coins. Few months ago when bitcoin broke $60k people where predicting next bitcoin move to be $100k which bitcoin even dump to around $29k. So what if you borrow money and you are ask to pay back within one month and you bought bitcoin at $60k if time for payment reach and you don't have choice won't you have to sell at lost and still for money to complete it so that you can pay back which might even affect you health.

Great... at least you recognize and appreciate that we are talking about bitcoin rather than some other amorphous concept.


My only responsive comment to you was in regards to your use of the term cryptocurrency, so at least you clarified your post in order to remove that ambiguous word and we are not even talking about that here.

Regarding your suggestion about never borrowing, you seem to have a bit of a superficial understanding of the various trade offs that should be considered in regards to using debt to invest (if at all).. and I have a few other posts earlier in the thread (like
1) this one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5356144.msg57828038#msg57828038)
2) this one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5356144.msg57830362#msg57830362)
3) this one  (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5356144.msg57834125#msg57834125)
and     
4) this one (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5356144.msg57851499#msg57851499))
in which I try to go through some of those considerations without necessarily presuming that the use of debt would be a bad thing, and actually I tend to consider that the use of debt can be a very powerful and good thing for those people who both have access to debt on reasonable terms and have some good ideas about the trade-offs that they need to consider when (or if) they choose to use debt.

Now I understand your point you said IS A GOOD THING IF PEOPLE HAVE ACCESS TO DEBT ON REASONABLE TERMS AND SOME GOOD IDEA ABOUT THE TRADE-OFF THAT THEY NEED TO CONSIDER WHEN THEY CHOOSE TO USE DEBT. seriously I understand your but there are some newbies that won't know about the points you just listed and might just endup getting a loan to invest in bitcoin just because they hear people saying bitcoin will pump which I also know bitcoin will pump but might not be when we expect and there is always a date for repayment of loan.

Of course, newbies gamble in all kinds of ways, and the reason that I posted was to describe the various considerations.  Newbies and even gamblers are not going to agree with me, and I would imagine some of those folks are going to get reckt as fuck, but some of them may well get lucky in some of their gambling efforts.

Do you believe it is better to proclaim that newbies should never use debt or to suggest that they consider the various trade-offs in the event that they are considering using debt to invest in (or gamble with) bitcoin.

I have no problem with people considering options, including considering if they believe that their situation or even the current place of the bitcoin market/price might be a good time to use or to consider using debt leverage... or to otherwise figure out ways that they might employ debt to buttress their cashflow, even if they choose not to use it for bitcoin but for some other purpose (or maybe only partially for bitcoin and partially for other purposes).

I agree that the use of debt (or leverage used in other ways) might cause someone to get reckt way faster and way more severely than if s/he had not employed such debt, and so yeah, a lot of people do dumb things and a lot of people are inclined to gamble and consider that they are "investing" when they are not... so investing usually does require some level of thinking and considering rather than just blindly going into something with hardly any thoughts, and I surely am no advocate of gambling, except in very controlled and minor circumstances (but that is just me... I tend to be a pretty conservative investor, even though I also have bitcoin in my portfolio and I have used debt in the past to buttress my bitcoin investment in a variety of ways...including not being opposed to using debt in the future if I believe that I want to do so).

Now I understand you and I believe lot's of people will have learn from our conversation. I don't really live involving my self in a loan when it comes to cryptocurrency because when I was a newbie I once lose money in coin which I wrote on this forum there.

I love this topic. One of my costly lessons was when I started trading last year around January trading was going fine but I was having just little amount I was using to trade so I was not satisfied with the profit I was having so after few week's I approached one of my friend for a loan which I promised to pay back after one month, he agreed and borrowed me the money the first coin I bought thing's went well and I sold the coin and then invested in around coin again, I invested in SXP coin on binance which was around 2.7$ after buying the coin bitcon started dumping the coin I bought also which is SXP also started dropping in price gradually all my thinking was that it's going to pump back again in the next few week but SXP dropped till around 0.8$. Which I was very frustrated because I borrowed the money which I invested and it was more than one month already which my friend is already requesting for his money which I borrowed and I promised to payback in the following month. So then bitcoin pumped a little bit and SXP also pumped to 1$ which I sold the coin I bought I knew it was at lost but my friend was already disturbing me for money so I have to sell the coin then look for money again just to balance the depth am having. This happened to me around August-September last year.

Conclusion: my conclusion is that never take a loan or borrow money from anybody to invest in Cryptocurrency is better you start building the little capital you are having than taking a loan because you can't trust any coin  anything can happen at any time. THANKS!!!
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5355731.msg57806592#msg57806592
Since then I don't really like loan.

Your basic point about borrowing adding one extra level of risk does not mean not to do it, but instead it means that you (or the borrower) needs to account for the ramifications of that one extra level of risk, and surely, adding one additional level of risk may well cause the balance of considerations to weigh against borrowing, but it is surely NOT anywhere an absolute, as you seem to be framing the matter doctor877.


Sure, it is quite likely one of the most common that newbies tend to make, which is to assign erroneous values to both the upside and the downside, so in that regard, they will end up allotting higher level of probability to the upside and lower levels of probability to the downside.  Let's take a simplified example and say that the actual upside possibility is 60% and the downside is 40%, and they end up assigning something like 80% / 20% to such situation, and sometimes they will even assign something like 90% / 10%, and then they end up getting screwed royally because they failed/refused to assign proper values.

I am not even asserting that any of us can know the actual values with any kind of precision, but we need to attempt to be as realistic as we can, including some kind of true calculation that was reflected in one of my earlier posts regarding how fragmented that attempts at somewhat realistic probability assignments can end up being (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5356144.msg57830362#msg57830362), even when each of us is quite likely to end up assigning different values at any given time.. and the values end up changing too with changing events and the passage of time, too.


Of course, the levels of risk can become worse and worse and worse the more layers of complexity that are added, and even though we are not delving into shitcoins here, there can be additional layers of complexity and risk, if you add shitcoins into the mix, and it does not mean that you are not going to profit and it does not even mean that you could end up profiting in multitudes of profits, but surely, the more levels of risk that you add causes me to conclude that you are likely gambling rather than investing, even if you believe that you have some kind of an accurate vision regarding what you believe is going to happen.

Even with bitcoin, these days, I tend to suggest that buyers/accumulators have a minimum of a 4-year investment timeline, and of course, having a longer investment timeline tends to be even a better thing to do, so I surely do not consider loans as a means to buttress your BTC investment strategy on the short-term, but instead to attempt to buttress your BTC investment strategy on the long-term - even though there could be some rationales to make shorter-term play bets that I would consider to be more appropriately labelled as gambling rather than investing.. even though there also may be some decent reasons to speculate that the odds for a favorable outcome are on your side.


Sure.  You seem to be going back to your seemingly lame-ass conclusion regarding "never" which again seems to be both ill-thought-out and based on your own lack of doing or considering the matter even close to correctly....[Edit.. your post is a wee bit confusing, Issa56, but after further review, I see that your final two paragraphs are quoting from your cited post from last week from the other shitcoin thread  - - usually it would be better to cite your post more clearly.. or just provide a link to it in order to attempt to lessen some potential confusion]  in other words, you bad experience and sloppy prior practice might be a lesson regarding don't do it like you did it, but does not mean that there might not be ways to structure these kinds of loan/leveraging matters in ways that are more likely to have better results while more adequately and appropriately attempting to account for the risks, too. .including timeline and more informed cycle considerations, too... and perhaps not including additional risks of shitcoins within whatever you may be trying to accomplish, too (again this thread is not about shitcoins, anyhow, which likely require particular analysis and some additional discussion - which remains off topic in terms of this thread, so no need to devolve further into talking about those various pump and dump - who knows what they are nonsense coins - except maybe in another thread).

Alright thanks I really appreciate atleast have learn something today.

Exactly. Its easier to invest knowing the money you put in it is only the amount you can afford to lose. But if you prefer borrowing money, it will be  a high risk knowing the profits you will gain has no definite time when it will happen. So paying your loan plus its added interest without a good source of income will make your whole life a disaster.

This is the reason why borrowing money for any kind of investment is not acceptable. Its better to earn first before deciding to invest so that if your investment fails, then you have nothing to worry how to repay someone else but just your own empty pocket.

The problem I faced when making similar calculations was the cost of electricity and maintenance. Actually, I visited some mining rigs locally where guys were actually mining using a lot of rigs/miners and during a brief discussion with them, mining does have a lot of problems and the biggest one is electricity. If that's cheap in your region, surely worth it.

By maintenance, I meant the cost of cleaning and a small staff to ensure things are working properly all the time.

As for Axie infinity, I believe at some point the cost of Axie's will reduce because it's impractical to assume the same price while the supply for Axie is infinite given how many new players are joining in. Hate to say but it's more of a dividends payout scheme, the earlier you enter the more you will make.

Acquiring cash to put resources into bitcoin as I would see it won't ever be restricted, you can do it. However, are you quite certain that you can take care of your credit at development when the cost of the bitcoin you purchased has dropped by a couple of percent. There are times bitcoin goes all over, you can't be certain assuming cost will take great additions and, your obligations will going to increment and stays neglected.

The answer is simple, don't borrow money for short term and ask the lender for more time. Also since you are investing in bitcoins for real, you can always assure the lender by proving the assets you hold.

Taking loans for a few months to invest in Bitcoin is a real problem since you are then forced into a situation where either the price of bitcoin jumps high or you bear the loss.

I love the fact you put things straight. A lot of people for some reason consider Bitcoin just as another crypto but fail to realize the difference between Bitcoin and all these newly crested coins.

Bitcoin definitely has value for the future but altcoins don't, at least most of them.

Part of my reason for harping on this topic so much is that there needs to be some clarity in thought in terms of what people are talking about, and surely the investment thesis for bitcoin is not exactly the same as some shitcoin, and if someone is using the term "crypto" or "cryptocurrency" and they really are talking about bitcoin then just say bitcoin and don't be using such a stupid-ass ambiguous term to talk about bitcoin.

On the other hand, if they are talking about some broader concept or other aspects of the cryptocurrency space beyond bitcoin, then sure it can be acceptable and even somewhat clear to use "crypto" or "cryptocurrency" in those kinds of contexts, even if it is somewhat vague and a kind of general reference.

In terms of this particular thread involving considerations about how to invest in bitcoin using leverage, credit or loans, surely the considerations that apply specifically to bitcoin may or may not apply to other "cryptos", and it is not really fair to anyone to take a topic that was originally intended to be about bitcoin and then just assume that all of the same principles and considerations can or should be applied in the event that a person would like to invest in some other random crypto...

Furthermore, if OP was specifically asking and talking about bitcoin, then why the hell even attempt to expand the topic to any kinds of broader topics or other investments unless there is some kind of reason to make such discussion in order to potentially help to inform the topic or to attempt to address the considerations that the OP raises in regards to bitcoin investing. Surely, there are other forum threads or even other forums to take those kinds of topics - rather than likely muddying this here thread with only quasi-relevant considerations at best, and likely just unneeded areas of discussion that might even be purposeful distractions or cause a slippery-slope devolution into more and more irrelevance (ie - nonsense).

May I ask if you are referring to borrowing money to a friends or family member or bank? or are you talking about margin trading? I think that 2 is different thing. I don't think borrowing money to those is not wise, I suggest if you are a good trader use the margin trading but if you failed to predict it that it's going up you will need to pay what you have borrowed and I think the fee for that is very low.

Although bitcoin is a very profitable currency, there is still a lot of risk in borrowing money to invest. Especially in the crypto market, the price of cryptocurrency fluctuates greatly, and it is impossible to predict when the price will rise or fall.
If the price of the currency in which you borrow money to invest falls, you will need to bear greater economic losses, so you must invest within your own financial capacity.

Making a loan and then putting everything into bitcoin investment will of course be a big risk, because when we invest with bitcoin there is no definite possibility if we will get profits consistently, basically the crypto market will always move without being predictable with accuracy so that that it is very possible to accept loss and if lose everything then this will be a double loss for us.

Borrowing money for trading is nothing new, there are lots of people who do it but it’s best to avoid it. Why it may be a problem is that you are not sure of the outcome of your trading, you might end up losing the thread and that will result to a big problem for you because you will have to pay back the money you have borrowed and also pay interest on top of it.

So, it’s usually best to start up trading with your own personal money and not borrow from people. And when you are trading you trade with minimum amounts you can afford to risk so that when you lose it, it wouldn’t be a problem to you as well.

With that said I’ve also seen people who have borrowed money and invested in crypto currency trading and made a lot of profits to the extent that they paid back the money they borrowed and then continued with their profits that was made.

But, before you take a risks like this you have to be sure of the actions you about to take and also have a backup plan in case it doesn’t work.

It's simply going on VA bank, all or nothing. Don't do this kind of risk, look at crypto as a long-term investment option and I'll prove why: I want to remind you that back in 2017 when price hit 20K, a lot of people took loans, sold their houses, apartments but wait, what? Wouldn't they profit if they wait 4 years? Sure, they would triple their money but when taking the loan, you have to keep in mind that you have duty to pay loan according to terms. No one will give you the loan for 4 years and more without paying single cent each month, or quarterly at least.

Personally, I would only take risk if price has skyrocketed - then I would open short position in futures trading and 2nd - I would take a loan after halving (not immediately, after some months).
Be cautious! Not risk your life!

Don't take a loan to long bitcoin, but take a loan to short it.

That makes a lot of sense.

 ::) ::) ::)

The damnedest things that people come up with.   :o

Taking loan and investing into bitcoin crypto or any investment is never been good idea until you have all information's about product and team where are you investing because this can ruin your life forever I have many examples because they're done mistakes and pay for this. But on other side, if you have all your homework, and you know about all side effects of this then you can take some but still just invest which you can afford to lost because sometime these things can pay some good for better future but still it's never been good to do things like this without proper work.

I know that you use bitcoin in your last sentence, but the rest of your post is mentioning "crypto"...

fuck crypto.


this thread is not asking about crypto, so why get distracted into such loose framing of the matter...

focus on bitcoin and attempt to answer the question again.

Now if you are using the term "crypto" and bitcoin interchangeably, then it likely shows that you don't really understand bitcoin or at least your thinking is a bit muddled on the topic.

Not surprising for a noob to mention up and saying bitcoin and crypto might really be just the same thats why he do said about and speaking in related to topic then
its not a new thing that they do lose track. :D

For on topic reply then borrowing up money for the sake of investment isnt bad as long you are really that mindful on repaying those and wont be a hindrance
or a big problem later on for you.

Dont depend on your investment profits because your monthly interest or due do really comes but if you do have other sources then it wont really
be a problem.

You can be successful when you borrow money and invest in crypto and you can fail too. The most important thing is being able to know when to enter the market. If you enter the market at high you may lose but if you enter at low you will gain. For anyone to take such risk you must have much knowledge of the market

not always bad borrow money for bitcoin investment...

it's just that we can't predict is "time" (when is the right time to buy after borrowing), however in this life you have to be willing to take risks, even though borrowing money from the bank for bitcoin investment is not recommended but who knows you might be profitable, the important thing is that you must be able to find the right time to buy.

I guess you must to make an investment at your knowledge first again the market is volatile there Are a lot of factors to make it pump or dump add to consider too having a technical analysis on the trade you want to do. Do you going for a long term or short term again invest what you afford to lose if you know the trend gives you a profit go ahead but if you still doubt make a play safe investment. Still its all about the risk to do it those borrow money can double your earning or makes additional debt.

There is no way we can certain that whats the best time to enter and exit market, as crypto market is based on speculations and takes wild swings very often. There is golden rule of trading, Invest as much as you can afford to lose. I guarantee an experienced trader never do such mistake of investing with borrowed money only newbies do that silly mistake. 

It is indeed not advisable to borrow money if you have no assurance of the outcome of your activity. You can't guarantee that you will get out with profits. What if, you failed, where will you get the funds to your lender? Because even if we say bitcoin's market is a very solid one, you can never be sure your entry and exit in this market. If there is a timeframe of your borrowed funds, you are not in luxury to wait long-term. So you need to assess of your situation before plunging into deep debt.

^ Though browsing money to invest in BTC or crypto is not a good decision but I think that is something like you gambled your money and what if BTC will suddenly increase in just a week after you purchased with your borrowed money? There is also a benefit but it is a high risk which is not really advisable.
This is always we remember, invest of what you can afford, it should not always bother your financial budget that supposed to be for your daily consumptions.

If we borrow money and we can manage it well and the results are profitable, that's good, but if we have borrowed and we even accept the loss, it is called a disaster and we will get losses many times over. In my place there are many cases like this where people will borrow big amounts of money and then invest it in Bitcoin without having sufficient knowledge or experience. It is very risky because it forgets the risk of crypto investment itself where the market can go up and down at any time and cannot be predicted. Here, in addition to skill, the luck factor is also there so don't take it lightly to enter the crypto world, especially without adequate experience.

Well, you have a point. But even if you buy during bearish season, there's no guarantee that the timing is right since the price can also plunged further right after you buy. Its a loss already in your part unless if you already expect such situation and willing to wait.

This the reason why its not advisable to use a borrowed money to invest (not only in crypto but in general), it has a risk to lose your money because the market is unpredicted. Thus, aside from knowledge and strategy, it would be better to use your own money, any amount will do as long as you can afford to lose it incase everything didnt go as planned.

It's against the market rules because you need to repay the loan in some time limit but in this market there is no guarantee that in particular period you can make good profits so taking loans or borrowing it from your known ones is never advisable.Suppose you loss 70-80% of amount invested during a crash even though the btc prices are anticipated to rise in future but what to do if you have to repay it? You will sell some stuff which is more important to you or some other way you have to figure it out so why go this way? Invest what you can afford to loose.

It's not weird if you're using it on investment and promise to pay it on a certain date. What weird is continuously asking for money on your family or friends without even paying them while using it on things that's not giving any income at all. Borrowing money and investing it to Bitcoin is a boss move, just don't buy at the peak, buy the dip. Also, don't put it all in Bitcoin, because you need money to feed yourself while waiting for the right time to sell your Bitcoin to gain profits.

Investment in bitcoins is always profitable but not at the expense of borrowing money or taking loan. There are a few times when the Bitcoin prices may not perform as expected and investment made may be down. Therefore it is never recommended to invest in cryptocurrencies by taking loans rather it is suggested that you only invest that money in cryptocurrency which you can easily to loose.

If the market is good and if the price of the coin invested grows up then yes we are safe and can pay back the borrowed amount from its return. Since often we depend on its return to pay back the debt, we tend to either close off the trade at loss to pay the amount borrowed. Here where everyone gets in risk. Yes borrow and invest but do not depend on returns from crypto currencies you invested. Rather plan to close off the debts from other sources and just leave the coin on a long term trade.

there is always a big risk when you are investing money in business, especially in crypto sphere. the key here and in every investment is to reduce these risks by analysis and experience. So, I agree with you , But if someone doesn't have experience, I think it would be better to try with small, that's better than not to try something with a fear of risks.

I think this isnt a good idea.Borrowing money to invest in crypto (bitcoin) is not advisable. NEVER! If you have extra money that you're willing to lose then invest it in bitcoin,but do not put yourself in a risk by having a big debt.Cryptocurrencies like bitcoin is unpredictable.Yes bitcoin can make you profitable but in some point,it will also lose your investment capital.And aside from losing your money,you also have to pay your debt back.

It is certainly not right.

The uncertainty in this market is high and the newcomers might be caught off guard if they try to borrow money just to invest in bitcoin. Good days will certainly come.

But what if that wouldn't come when you're about to pay the interest? Invest your own money, not borrowed so you have no obligation and you're not putting any problem and stress on yourself which you might think every night and will affect you emotionally.

Looks like a crazy idea to me. For me, the best way to give about this is to invest with the little you got and I believe that is why it's best advised and tagged "Don't invest more than you can afford to lose".

Absolutely,Taking a loan just to invest in crypto is horrible idea.Especially if you dont really understand the market.Do not think you'll become rich quickly by high-risk investing.Never invest money that you can afford to lose and more importantly dont invest into anything without enough knowledge.

Thats why,you need to think twice before making an investment.Only invest your money that you can afford to lose without getting into financial trouble. :)

It's not weird for those who are greedy and risk takers,
I also thought about it sometimes too but I know how risky it is so I never done it.
But you should know your limits so don't be too greedy that it could destroy your future,
I know other thinks that high risk high reward but not everyone could succeed.

You can make profit by risking but you can lose same as you can make money without risking but will take long time .
like investing in Bitcoin in which always safe but also sometimes took long time to recover.
investing with a little you got will give you small return also, why not instead invest bigger amount so you can make a bigger return?

but indeed invest only the amount you can afford to lose .

Crazy as it is.

But there are people that really does that even though they know that it's a crazy idea. And they will be put into a debt that they might find hard to get up.

That tip will never fade as we always tell everyone to invest only with what they can afford to lose and also, avoid getting debt just to keep invested.

The wrong thinking of the people that just got in to the market are like that. They have the wrong idea that they'll become rich by just simply after investing their money. It's not the end of it.

Trouble not just financially but also mentally. That's a heavier consequence if the investor doesn't understand a thing or two.

Personally, I will not do this for any reason.
Borrowing money from a loan to invest in Bitcoin? It is not about weird or not, but the risks.
We even don't know what will happen to the market. If we will know how the future will be, we may do it. But as a human, we will never know what will happen to the future exactly. It is only a prediction.
Imagine that if we really borrowed money when the price was at the down price, we borrowed because we are sure that the price will increase in only a short ime. But unexpected, the price keeps decreasing. What will happen to us?
Stressful because we must pay the loans and their interests, the regret of borrowing money, and panic.

So, I will turn back to my major consideration, never borrow loans for Bitcoin investment, just use free money that we cana fford to loose

It is normal for us to have greed when it comes to money, because it is human nature to have greed. Then there will always be in our minds
to borrow money to invest in Bitcoin, so that the profit generated is much greater. Moreover, we know that Bitcoin's performance is extraordinary,
especially in 2021 the increase in Bitcoin is very drastic. So for people who have small capital like me, they will think about borrowing money from
the bank so they can have large capital. But experience has taught me not to do that, and I'm glad you chose not to do that too. Because borrowing
money to invest in Bitcoin is very risky, it is very possible that our future will be ruined because of it. Bitcoin prices are very volatile, we should invest
with cold money only, so if Bitcoin price movements don't match our predictions, then we won't panic and don't need to sell our Bitcoins. It's better
to invest in a safe way, although maybe the profit we get is not too big. Because even small profits if accumulated will be big too, so be patient
if we want to make big profits.

It can be a strange wonder how different it can be for one person.  In my personal opinion it is not regrettable but seems to be very happy full always remember.  There is a risk in doing Bitcoin Binay.  We don't really know when the value of bitcoin will continue to rise in the future. We don't really know when bitcoin revenue will increase after buying bitcoin.  Which is beyond imagination

I suggest you to don't borrow money and invest in bitcoin. It is a advice for you brother. The price of bitcoin fluctuates. And due to this fluctuation you can lose your money. If you have only 100$ then start with it. And learn things that is helpful for trading. DOn't borrow thousands of dollars and then start your trading. Just invest a amount that you can afford to lose in trading. Because i have done this mistake multiple times 

There are people who do really took risk into extreme manner but we do have our own will on making out some choices on which its impossible that you wont really be taking any considerations on

minding about the risk of not able to make profits with those investments and not able to repay those debts or loans from others.If you do have other sources then its good but if not or solely

depending on your investment then better not to make such move because you would really be having a very big problem later on.

Because we are honorably warned not to invest any money in cryptocurrency that we cannot afford to lose, the risk associated with crypto trading and investment is exceedingly high. Although the market may appear to be in good shape at the time, I believe that taking out a loan to invest in crypto or trade crypto should be the last choice to consider, as the crypto market can go down at any time for any reason.

I did not see the word "crypto" in the question presented.


Fuck "crypto."  we are not talking about that vague nonsense.

We are talking about bitcoin in this thread.. so maybe you might want to reconsider your response in light of the actual topic.. and use the proper word so that we understand that you are on the same page or that you are talking about bitcoin rather than some amorphous topic, ie "crypto" - whatever that is?

Regarding your concern about using leverage or a loan because bitcoin (let's assume you used the proper word) might go down, then you better have your ability to pay back your loan covered, too, but it is NOT a reason not to use leverage, but instead a factor that should be considered that the BTC price might go down for the duration of the loan period.

By the way, I do agree with your point about not investing more than you can afford to lose, which to me means that you need to have your expenses covered for the period of your loan.. if you were to use loan money, and I do agree with you that it may well be a way better practice to figure out some kind of bitcoin investment strategy that does not require leveraging or taking risks because bitcoin remains one of the best current investments in terms of having a pretty decently-sized asymmetric upside potential. 

So, in that regard, anyone could create a pretty solid bitcoin investment strategy merely with Dollar cost averaging, buying on dips and lump sum investing that ends up profiting stupendously and not needing to use leverage... but on the other hand, if you have figured out ways to use debt effectively, that can help you to profit in better ways.. even though it is not absolutely necessary, especially if you have an investment timeline that is 4-10 years or even longer than that, so then time can be your friend...

Again.. not talking about crypto bullshit... talking about bitcoin, here.  If you are considering some other investment in something other than bitcoin, then you surely are going to need some additional considerations.

Yeah, i agree that investment is bitcoin is profitable but if you are willing to hold long term. For short term,  your investment in bitcoin may be in a loss, if the market conditions are not good.

Let me kexplain this. If you take loan to buy bitcoin, there is always a chance that you may not be able to hold for long term as you will have to sell the bitcoin in order to return the loan. We never know if at the time of returning the loan, the price of bitcoin may be down and you may have to experienices dificulties in returning the laon.
Thats why its better to invest in bitcoin with our own money, so we can hold for long term.

That's the big risk if you loan the money that you will going to invest,

the chance that you needed to sell your asset even you are at loss is there, if you don't have any other alternatives or other
sources of financial income.

It's good though if you have alternative and you can use your loan money for long term investment, the chance that you may
earn decent amount if the market favor your way.

If you already have an income why would you still make a loan? Can you just appreciate the potential of your income and if you invest that in bitcoin it will also have a chance to grow but the advantage there is you have less worries because it is your own money.

For those that have loaned already and the deadline is close, they can sell their assets at a loss but I think this is better because they can return something but if they won't sell, they cant pay something and they can get killed by the people who gave them loans. The deadlines are supposed to be longer the bigger the money that you loaned, this way, you will have a chance to gain a profit.

I Don't support borrowing money from others source and invest into cryptocurrencies because cryptocurrencies market always uncertain in nature and don't realize how the cryptocurrencies market be stabled? So if I get losses in borrow money, then how can pay my borrow money?

This question you should have mainly on your mind on how you would repay those loan money? If you do have other source on which you could able to do so then its normal that you would really get confident on getting

one since you do know that you could able to repay those things not on waiting for your crypto earnings.So its very situational because not all people are the same in speaking with financial conditions.

If you do tend to invest on crypto then never ever anticipate nor conclude into yourself that you could make guaranteed profits.

There isn’t perfect time for you do that, you’re always going to be taking a risk. The question is if you happen to lose the money in the market, would it be something you’d be able to deal with?  If it’s something that you wouldn’t afford to deal with if in a case where there is a loss, then you will have to be very careful steer away from it. Sure there are people who have done and it worked, but it’s very rare for you to see such thing. So, it is just up to you and what decision you want to makes and making sure that you’re hundred percent aware that you’re taking a risk in market.

While investing in Bitcoin can be lucrative, borrowing money to invest is especially crazy.
Bitcoin price does not always trend upwards, it is also constantly changing. When the price falls, you must be a certain economic loss.

Bitcoin is the only coin which can give you huge success than any other coin as you know that bitcoin price was such low then most of people desires to make investment and buy coin and now you can see those people who are  in profit just because bitcoin price fluctuates but it does not implies that it is bad coin and investment in bitcoin is not good. I suggest that keep eye on its worth and if you think that is good to buy or sell then do it as it is most trustworthy coin.

If you are minding or thinking about getting 2x of your investment then Bitcoin wouldnt be an ideal choice and this is which most people do really make choose of altcoins but speaking with
borrowed money neither you do invest on bitcoin or altcoins then it would be a risky thing to be done since we dont know on what would happen next and if you couldnt able to
repay those loans then it would just create another big problem of yours because its never been suggested to take up some loan because it would really be a big problem of yours.

Borrowing money to invest is not the right decision. Bitcoin price is difficult to predict accurately, its market is volatile and will change at any time. You have to take a loss when the price of bitcoin goes down, and it's a double loss. So borrowing money to invest in Bitcoin is very risky.

If investing only with bitcoin I think need weird to borrow much money because little fund for investing on bitcoin just achieve little profit only, I think is worth if you try weird borrow money and invest with bitcoin but you need brave borrow money with higher amount, maybe $30,000 looks worth if try investing on Bitcoin and take profit about 3% every day. Maybe without one years you can finish to pay your borrowing and keep get profit if you know when have to invest on bitcoin and get good chance during bitcoin have lower price.

This has a big risk attached, but works as stated and the other way round if the bitcoin price fumbles it'll pose a catastrophe for the debtor but given a long period of time bitcoin will be able to generate more profits for the person. I think the main risk attached to this move is time. The longer the payback time the lesser the risk of losing out.

Assuming you believe that the bitcoin venture is a wise speculation, it's fine assuming that you will acquire cash for it, simply observe that it has higher gamble contrasted with customary speculation that we're utilized to. Albeit for this situation the venture has been commendable. I need to put as quite a bit of my pay in Bitcoin as there is in excess.

If you are taking a loan but able to repay it with the use of other sources other than that investment of yours then i dont see anything wrong but if you are depending on it then it is a suicide.You wouldnt
able to make out some assurances on where you could make out profits in time and if you are just depending into those profits then you dont know on when it would happen or realized which is the
main risks when you are making it as a source of income which it shouldnt be done on the first place.

Well, why would he exit too early when he has not made enough profit to cover the borrowed money and the incurred interest? Sounds stupid to me.
The end of discussion is to never borrow or take a loan for the sole purpose of investing in bitcoin, it's highly risky and one might not be able to pay back if things go south.
Ive said this here before, if you must borrow, then it must be from relatives who must understand incase things don't go as planned , I personally have had opportunity of borrowing over 2 million in my local currency to invest in crypto, but after a second thought about it, I outrightly rejected the offer, if I had collected that money, probably I might have died from high blood pressure or heart attack by now or maybe I will be seriously ill, nothing troubles my heart more than owning someone.

Since there is no guarantee in Bitcoin trading or investment, using loan money isn't a good idea. However, we cannot state every person using loan money is stupid or weird, depending on how his knowledge and experience in crypto trading/investment. For a newbie, using loan money to trade/invest is a totally stupid idea. But for a crypto expert or a professional crypto trader/investor, using loan money to gain bigger profits may be a good idea since they know well how to gain profits and can minimize the opportunity of losses. So, there is nothing wrong with using loan money as long as the person knows well how to gain profits from trading/investment although it is not recommended to use.

but if you borrow money to buy when the market is bearish, it's really a very wise move...

the crypto market will never be stable but if you can take advantage of opportunities when the market is bearish then I can assure you that you will make big profits. the price of Bitcoin on 22/1/2022 was around $35k and the current price of btc is $39k, just imagine how much profit you can get if you make a loan to buy bitcoin at the price of $35k ago.

The cryptocurrency market will always move in this direction, although we have done some technical analysis before entering the market and what we know in the future with the price of the currency has nothing to do with it and does not always meet our expectations.  Either way, to play with cryptocurrencies, we always have to use old money to invest, even though we don't have much money here.

But you won't know where the btc market is heading at the time when you borrowed the money. You will only know if it is bearish or bullish after few days or weeks passed. So how can you assure yourself or your lender that you can get his money back with profits? Also, if he has given timeframe to return the money, do you really think that 100% sure that you will get the profits by the time you need it to return? For me, this is very risky. It is fine if you are borrowing from your immediate family because they can understand, but if others, I don't know what penalties they will impose if you delayed your payment.

Yeah, it would be like loan on loan and interest on interest situation. This is very bad move to be honest. Not recommended at all. May be you can borrow money and give it out with higher interest rate to your local people which is being practiced in real world also. However, borrowing to invest in highly volatile asset Like bitcoin? Man that’s shit risk and you would never know what’s bitcoins next move.

Only borrow and invest if you are sure about the returns that you gonna get from the market. Even though assets like oil, gold are safe then also I would think twice. But bitcoin? Never. It’s volatile.

It seems to me that a vast majority of members are against loan and against using leverage as an investment tool because their way of thinking about the use of leverage is fucked in the head.. I mean in a very perverted way... We have many members describing the whole process as a way to use the proceeds of the loan (and the profits from the BTC price goin up) as if it were going to be the ONLY way to pay back the loan.

If you structure a loan for yourself in such a way that the ONLY way to pay it back is that the BTC price goes up sufficiently to cover the loan and all the costs of the loan, then you seem to be destined to failure because you are using your ability to get credit as a means to double down on gambling rather than leveraging a way to get ahead.. as the smart folks will leverage to get ahead.. and NOT be fucking around with gambling.. at least not as the base case and if any gambling is included then it is a relatively minor portion of the way the bitcoin/loan transactions are structured. 

Maybe if I say this in another way, each of us has to be careful regarding how much we are putting our principle at risk with any way that we implement our budget, and of course, there is always going to be some risk..and many times what seems to happen is that the building of principle tends to be slow in the beginning but it also tends to have a magnifying effect as it gets bigger, so if you are not losing your principle in the beginning and you are continuing to build your principle then there are greater chances that you are going to get ahead.

By the way, I will concede that there are are personality types that have gambled extensively and have gotten rich as fuck, yet I doubt that those are good ways to model behavior..especially if one of your central goals is to increase your odds of significantly improving your lot in life - and also reaching fuck you status.. which a vast majority of people do not reach.. and frequently they have made a lot of mistakes along the way in terms of either not taking risks and/or putting too much of their principle at risk (failure to sufficiently/adequately preserve their principle).

Joining here or the fever is good and if the price of the coin played is good then we are safe and rely on refund from here so we tend to close the loss trade to pay and everyone here to add and invest  Don't rely on it but plan to stop taking other drugs

Borrowing money to invest is very risky. The price of Bitcoin is volatile and difficult to predict. When market prices change, it is easy to be affected by market sentiment and make wrong decisions that lead to losses.
Without familiarity with crypto knowledge and trading strategies, it is difficult to guarantee a consistent profit in the crypto market.

Weird if we borrow money nowadays to invest in Bitcoin, if you say in 2018 or 2019, it makes sense to me with a loan in 1-2 years time, currently borrowing money and buying Bitcoin is the same as killing yourself, there is but if the one who borrows money makes futures trading, it enters my mind.

People have been living in debt for thousands of years, the oldest bank in Italy seems to be about 800 years old.
 There is nothing wrong with the loans themselves. It is only important to be able to properly manage money.
In this case, it should be understood that in fact in the crypto you are not trading/ This is gambling. Therefore, the risks must also be calculated like in the casino.

But in general, it seems more logical to buy equipment(GPU maybe) and mining ETH or other coins, at least you can return some money in the future.
If you're newbie in trading and if you're going to trade altcoins, you should know that you can easily lose up to 99 percent of the deposit in a couple of transactions.

Who remembers the substratum knows what is that about.

If you are looking at 2018 to 2019 now, it makes sense to have had borrowed, but there is no way to time exactly when is the right time with any kind of high confidence - nonetheless, anyone who is engaging in borrowing needs to attempt to account for a variety of scenarios that could play out and not necessarily count upon the price of bitcoin going up in order to pay off any loan that is taken out.

Right now, we are around 40% to 45% of a dip from the top, so it is not obvious that the BTC price is going down from here.. but it is also not obvious that the price is going up.

Currently if you get a 2 year loan with something like 6% per year, then what are the odds that the BTC price will be up 12% to 14% from here after 2 years, which would be right around $45k?  better than 50% odds?  If the odds are better than 50%, then it may well be  good idea to get a loan - so long as you are still able to pay back the loan during that time.  Each person has to weigh whether that kind of a gamble is worth it... and probably instead of calculating bitcoin at $39k, instead calculating the BTC price needing to be $45k as the break even price for such a two year loan with a 6% per year interest rate.


By the way, if anyone has already established eligibility and pre-approval for a loan that is 6% per year and has a 2-year pay-off period, and that "credit line" is being held open, then there could be some consideration about whether it would be good to employ that right now, or to wait for 3-6 months.... Bitcoin has been a very good investment with merely employing a somewhat aggressive ongoing investment strategy.. and 4-10 years down the road, there can be a lot of advantages in continuing to invest with an aggressive strategy - and not even necessary to employ leverage - nonetheless, it can still be a good mental exercise to consider whether employing additional risk.. such as having a loan that ends up front loading cashflow would be a good idea at a time like this, or would there be a better time to attempt to employ such tool.  I have always considered that private loans tend to have way better terms than exchanges because at least you cannot get margin called... so long as you are putting something other than bitcoin up for collateral.... whether it is just using personal credit or maybe some other means of funding the loan with some kind of collateral that is not necessarily bitcoin.... On the other hand, if you use bitcoin for collateral, it is likely to be very clear about the terms in which your loan can be called including how much collateral that you need.. including considering whether it might be prudent to overly collateralize such loan, if engaging in those kinds of loans.. and are the terms of the loan otherwise favorable.. are you getting less than 6% per year interest, or are you having to pay higher interest rates which changes the calculations.  All can be a good mental exercises to consider what terms are available to you personally.



We are not talking about shitcoins in this thread.  Maybe refocus your answer/response in terms of discussion of bitcoin so at least you are talking about the correct underlying asset instead of getting distracted into off-topicness...

Otherwise, your first paragraph in which you assert that proper money management is the key to considering the whole matter... and yeah, hopefully we would not be using a loan to gamble but instead to invest - and sometimes the line between what is investing and what is gambling is not exactly clear and it depends upon the approach of the person getting the loan in terms of how to manage the funds... including how to calculate the risks and to account for both the upside and downside scenarios.. even extreme variations of each.. and at the same time having a plan for any of those scenarios including considering if it would be worth it to get the loan and to take those various risks that go beyond merely investing without such a loan.

Yes, here I probably got distracted by GPU mining when I mentioned altcoins, but this happened because I think that this is the simplest and most logical step for a beginner, in case if you will fail in mining you can be sold equipment or used it.
Bitcoin mining equipment costs much more than GPU equipment and it will be much more difficult to sell it if a bear market comes.
And so in fact, except for bitcoin (well, maybe ETH), all other assets have a negative correlation in the long term.
They may grow for a while, but over time, other, "new" altcoins come in their place. In fact, there is no market without bitcoin, and if we already consider some asset for long-term investment, including using credit funds, then this is bitcoin.

Getting up some loan wont really be always bad because there are really times that we are out of cash and we do able to see some opportunity for us need to dive in immediately which would might result into something like this kind of decision.Majority of us would be saying it is risky.Yes, it is risky but if you do know that you could get something or benefit into it then you wouldnt really be having any regrets towards your decision and as long you  do know that you could repay those loans or borrowed money in time without relying into your investment then it would be good but if not
then dont mind off about getting one because you would really be just putting yourself into trouble.

Difficult to predict accurately but we can do something to at least have a close prediction. We can borrow money when we think the market is going in the right direction but emotion is also important, we need to practice controlling our emotions first so that we cant get distracted by the news and FUDs that we hear towards this market.

Selling little by little and not aiming for a long term can be a good thing to do when we have loans to pay because the money is already in our hands, it can never be stolen to us by market volatility. We are more confident this way that we can pay our loan. After successfully paying, that's the time we can do riskier strategies.

I do appreciate you further explaining what you were getting at, and surely there is a valid point that if you are attempting to invest into a business with your loan, then there are a variety of ways to end up with some kinds of tangible assets that would protect you somewhat with the downside. 

Maybe we can agree to disagree because even though I concede that you are making some valid points, it still seems that you are overly complicating the more strict considerations that was presented by OP - in terms of using a loan to invest into bitcoin... which seems to be a both a valid question.. and also one in which any person can validly attempt to protect themselves against a wide variety of scenarios.... your set of scenarios does attempt to add additional protections, but it also adds more costs and more complications and even presumes that there is something lacking in investing in the anticipated price performance of bitcoin itself.

Furthermore, the fact that you are conceding that bitcoin is quite a capital intensive venture - in terms of mining - leads you to make further stretches involving GPU mining and including that bitcoin cannot be GPU mined, so in that regard, there is a kind of assumption that mining a shitcoin (and sure maybe you can revolve between shitcoins) is some how some kind of a prudent investment because it relates to bitcoin. .in the sense that it depends on bitcoin's success to be successful.. and if you really think through what you are proposing, you will likely appreciate that you are just adding additional layers of risk.. rather than really resolving anything by then proclaiming that you will end up with otherwise potentially valuable equipment that goes beyond door-stop status.,,

From my perspective, going on about this angle just seems to devolving too much away from this particular topic.. even though tangentially it can be described as related..

Yes, I probably deviated a little from the topic when I started writing about mining.
But this was done rather with the hope that before borrowing, a person will study the crypt better, at least understand the basic principles.
If you look at the question of borrowing to buy BTC or not,  the key to answer for that question - at what interest will borrowed?
If inflation is above interest on the loan, then the move is risky, but logical.
If the loan interest is much higher than inflation, then you should take it with caution.
In any case, it is better to do a study for yourself at what stage of the market we are (bulls or bears) and what to do if the bear market comes suddenly and for a long time?
How you will repay the loan in that case?

It is clear that when everything grows, as in a good bull market, it is much easier to pay interest and debt.

I feel like I am repeating myself quite a lot.. but I will try one more time.


Studying mining or business opportunities in bitcoin or anything like that is not necessary in order to attempt to assess whether taking a loan might be beneficial or not.

Surely, there is likely a difference between someone who has no clues about bitcoin, and has not even bought any bitcoin to be then considering to add leverage (such as a loan) versus someone who may have already been into bitcoin for a while and established a decent sized holding of bitcoin.

The same is true if someone has already established several investments outside of bitcoin, such as a house, a 401k, and some other investments, versus someone starting from scratch in bitcoin.  Having already existing assets allows the drawing from various assets and the moving around of risk.

Also, having various cashflow levels can make a difference as well, and having an already strong and consistent cashflow can help to make it easier to justify getting a loan.. but still might not justify getting the loan in and of itself....  

So there are a lot of ways that finances can be organize and assure for paying the loan back without even having to consider entering into any kind of extra business such as bitcoin mining or even having to weight the additional plusses and minuses of mining bitcoin, even if you personally believe that is the way to go, your own narrow focus on that angle might show that you either do not adequately understand other ways of thinking about ways that loans can be profitable without having to have that extra layer of complexity that you consider to have more positives than negatives.  By the way, think about it.. you have an interest in mining and you might even have technical interests and even business oriented interests.  Not everyone shares those kinds of interests but they are not necessarily going to be disadvantaged in terms of still getting into a loan if it might otherwise be something that they believe works for their own personal situation - considering cashflow, other assets investments and skills - amongst other possible considerations that they might believe to be helpful to them.




Yes.. that is one of the considerations.


yes.. all of those are important considerations..



Yes, a bull market cannot be presumed, even though it would be better to consider that the odds are higher to have price appreciation rather than not.

I already mentioned the example of getting a two-year loan with a 6% interests, so if the BTC are bought at $39k with such loan, then at the end of the loan period, the BTC should need to be worth at least $44.5k just to break even.... so yes, the loan could end up being profitable or not by that time.. and there need not be a guarantee in order to still justify taking the loan, but the break even price should be considered as part of the calculation whether or not to get the loan.

Taking a loan should really be your last resort if you do see some opportunity to invest but if not or do make out those impulsive kind of action just because you've
been hyped by other people then it would be really a suicide kind of decision on which you would really be thinking that it could really make out some decent returns
or thinking that there would be some assurance that you could repay those loans out of those profits which is really very wrong.

 I do not know who and how made people think that debt is something bad, but that caused a whole generation to be both in debt, and also not have good investments.

Debt is not a bad thing, not inheritly. There are bad debts and there good debts and you need to figure out which one you are on the side of. If you take out a mortgage to buy a house, pay about 1.5k monthly on the mortgage and make 3k on the rent, while the price rises %1 above inflation a year, that is a good debt to have. If you take out a loan, or just use a credit card to buy the new iphone, that is a bad debt.

 Know the difference between the two and you will be doing fine. For example many credit card companies will give you low rates, definitely low if you have used it long enough and have a good credit with them. You could always use that to purchase something that will make you enough profit. Or taking out a loan that you could pay even without the asset. Assuming you have 500 bucks saved aside every month, it is smarter to lock that down for the next few years and get couple grand right now, because that way you will be paying interest, but you will also accumulate profit as well.

 If you know the difference between bad debt and good debt, and if you take out a debt based on that, then as long as its a good one, you will be fine.

All you have to do for the business is to invest in the Kyoto currency. There is always a big risk here and the key to every investment is acting and experience so I think you need to have experience to chat  If not, you will not gain anything but will always lose

We can rely on technical analysis, fundamental analysis to predict the trend of the market. But the market is always full of surprises, bitcoin price can reverse at any time just because of some news. So that sometimes make our judgments wrong.
Crypto is not like other markets, they can increase 100%, 200% in a few hours but can also drop 500% in 1 hour, it contains too much risk when investing with borrowed money. Borrowing money to invest is really risky, I think this is not recommended.

Borrowing is to risky. If you want to make that profit every day for your daily expenses then you can easily choice Spot trading  you can buy bitcoin and sell it when you get some profit. Our daily expenses are not too high. We spend a maximum of  $10 per day. In this case if you have $200 then you can easily collect your daily expenses from spot trading. so, Don't use borrowing as Future  or Margin trading. It will take away everything you have at some point

What type of investment is that Kyoto?

It is new to hear that there is such type of investment in existence.

The risk that you are telling if it is about that currency is certainly big. Because a person like me who is unfamiliar on it is likely gambling my money.

I first heard the name of something like this. I did not know any information about this currency but after you said that I found this information by searching on Google. Are you talking about this? Why do you think you can invest in this currency? Can you discuss in detail the reasons behind this?

Source: https://www.insidekyoto.com/getting-money-in-kyoto


https://i.ibb.co/tQDG092/20220312-174714.jpg

I think it’s risky but with proper maths we can do miracles in the world of borrowing money. I mean just imagine if we borrow money with low interest rates and buy crypto in the current event when prices are dipping very low. We wait for few months and let’s assume that crypto just break the resistance and go nuts with its ATH rate. Imagine this could pay off the debts plus interest for that much period of time. However, though it looks very simple, it could be disastrous if dip is going to last for very long time. I mean over build up of interest rate can be a problem.

to me borrowing for investment purposes is a bad idea. this is very risky for us traders, you don't have enough capital to trade but doing this loan the risk is doubled. anyone who is and is close to me and in this thread for those reading I don't recommend doing that.

Its true. When you want to invest anything go with the amount that you can afford to lose. Dont ever try to go in debt just to invest on a speculative asset like bitcoin.With bitcoin, you can make a fortune, but you may lose a fortune. Theres nothing magical in bitcoin, it can go up  and it can go down. Investing carries risk and bitcoin carry enormous risk. So if you cant afford the money that you put in, then do not invest in it.

Yes borrowing money to invest in crypto especially Bitcoin is not a good idea and will only add to the existing risk,
better use cold money and i think that is the best option,
if you don't have capital, it's better to hold on to start investing and most importantly as much as possible to minimize risk

Fuck crypto.. we are not talking about that topic in this thread... whatever you might mean by use of such term?


You mentioned bitcoin earlier in your response, and then you changed to some dumbass amorphous term "crypto"  whatever that means?... we are not talking about that, here.


Sure.  Trading is another way to attempt to make profits in bitcoin, but OP did not mention trading.. seems like trading entails different kinds of skills that likely are not the same skills as to making an assessment if taking out a loan (or using debt) might work to your advantage in terms of investing into bitcoin.


If you are talking about bitcoin, then why don't you use that term rather than turning it into "crypto?"

You know what?  The OP did not mention "crypto"... he mentioned bitcoin..

I would not want to put words in your mouth, but would your answer be the same if we were to substitute "bitcoin" for those two spots where you mentioned "crypto" or were you talking about something other than bitcoin?

Isn't borrowing for investment in Bitcoin essentially betting on price will go up from the current point and hope to cover the loan + interest. Also, I don't know who will give suck loan without other collateral.

There is no point in borrowing money to invest in a value asset that performs your investment regardless of whether you make a profit or not.  It is better to get up and invest your money without borrowing. Never act in such a way that you lose everything. Before you do any work, think carefully and if you invest, do what you have. Never borrow and invest.

It is highly risky with trading and being hopeful that you can repay loan from profit isn't a guarantee. You can lose the loan amount in a short while in trade. Stay away from loan if you want to trade.


Don't even to put in a collateral, whether your house, car, land or whatever because you may not recover it.
Don't also stand as a guarantor for such loan .

Yea, it's a really bad plan when it comes to borrowing money and using it for trading, gambling, or even investment. But there's one of my friends who borrow money and traded with it, in the end, he get some profit and return the amounts he borrowed, if a case like that happened it's not a problem but the problem one when people who don't understand anything to investment or trading the borrowed money without any good education. We should guide our friends when he doesn't know anything rather than he forced to use borrowed money.

It is not very weird and yet it is weird. It all depends on the time of borrowing. If you observe very very well you will know that most people enter the market at the wrong time. When bitcoin moving fast everyone will rush and buy and many many people will end up buying the high and when bitcoin crashes they will cry..
If you borrow money to buy bitcoin when bitcoin was 10k dollars you didn't make mistakes. If you buy this present time at 36k you did not make mistake but me I cannot say how long bitcoin market will still be profitable

Knowing about the right time is actually been always a challenge due to unpredictability of this market thats why you couldnt really able to have precise predictions or actions towards market price.

If you are considering on taking up some loan then be wise on doing so since you wouldnt really know on what would happen next but if you do have some other source of income which could
able to patch up those loans without relying on your crypto investment then its considerable but if you are relying on it then it wouldnt really be a good idea to do so.

Tried it like 2x already, but I would say that it has it's perks specially if you have invested it prior to the bull run. But I don't like the risk though, so I return the money right now and get my profits and then reinvest. so I'm debt free and then my money is growing (although we are in a bear market right). But for those who are willing to take the risk, then why not? It's up to you on how you are going to play the game. If you know the risk and can still make money then by all means, no one can stop you from doing it.

Borrowing money from the bank to invest in crypto is essentially betting on which asset would appreciate more, a currency which suffers from inflation and has unlimited supply or an asset with storing value + utility. So yes, it would be weird not to do it.

Taking a loan to trade Bitcoin I will kick against that but if it's on the basis of holding then it is only worthy of the risk if the loan is on a long term basis. Bitcoin is only profitable on a long term. It's not a short term investment option so if the loan comes with a long term payment plan then investing and holding is best option

Of course financial basics is to attempt to assess whether you are engaging in debt in order to make an investment versus engaging in consumption... some ways of spending money have opportunities to get a return, and for sure consumption by definition either depreciates in value or is completely consumed around the time of purchase.

Even within the category of investments there is going to be levels of uncertainties regarding how sure is the bet (how likely is it that you are going to get anticipated levels of return including the consideration regarding how much it is going to cost you to take on the debt).

The mere fact that the bet (investment) is risky or uncertain should not completely rule out whether to attempt to earn extra value in that direction - and like OP said, the rich use debt all the time to magnify their wealth - yet also, merely because the rich do it (and may well be successful) should also not be the ONLY consideration regarding whether to get into the debt because the loan terms may well be different between people and other individual circumstances are surely different between people too.

Don't get me wrong.  On a personal level I consider myself to be a pretty conservative investor; however, I find it a bit annoying to find so many members posting in this thread and blanketedly asserting that other members should not use debt blah blah blah... and assuming that the mere fact that there is additional risk should warrant not to employ the use of debt.

I am actually a proponent of learning and practicing and figuring out your individual situation first before employing debt, so in that regard, even starting by investing small amounts and attempting to learn how to do it before investing larger amounts and before employing more sophisticated tools, such as debt.. are all better practices than getting greedy or risking a lot of capital (whether using debt or not) before you have gotten some good grasps on various other more basic aspects of learning about both your own personal finances and your own psychology, too.

 That is why people do not take out those loans that easily, because there is no guarantee in life that you could make a profit from that debt. I mean if it was just that simple, lets assume that you take out a 20k loan, pay maybe like 1k per month for 24 months (thats quite high interest in most places) and then you just buy GPU's with it, and start mining. If you can find those GPU's at a sale price, and have low electricity, you should be making profit and that loan should be nothing to you. But we all know that it is not that simple, your GPU could get broken, your house can caught on fire, ETH could publish 2.0 out of nowhere and a million other things.

 This works on any idea, you could take a loan out for your factory that makes a lot of money, and want to make more money and use that to buy more machines to produce more and earn more, then you could end up living through a pandemic and fail to pay your loan back because your business just went bankrupt basically. You could buy a house, and make a lot of profit from that with that mortgage paid by the person who pays the rent, but then housing market could crash. All in all it is very difficult to predict what will happen.

 However, "debt is bad" should not be the way out, bad debt is bad, good debt could be good or it could turn bad in a case of emergency like I mentioned, but at least you tried something with it, and can't say I never tried.

If he borrows and invests in a bitcoin and the market is a little dumped for a while, how will he repay his loan? We know the potential of Bitcoin which is a market dump but we don't have much tension. But when someone invests that money by borrowing money and the market suddenly dumps that investor will be under a lot of pressure to repay the loan. So in the case of this type of investment, it is necessary to make money which will not be a big loss even if it is lost.

It will really bring a lot of pressure to borrower if what he expected for his investment didnt happened. There's no guarantee to gain and there's no timeframe when you can already take profit since it depends how the market move. As we know it really takes a lot of patience in order to be a gainer in crypto because its not a smooth investment. Hence its not recommended to take a loan to invest especially if you're not certain with the result. Save money as capital to invest is often wise because whatever happens incase you invest it, no one will pressure you because you dont owe money to anyone.

From my perspective, it is financially imprudent (meaning you should not do it) to take out a loan that you are not able to repay absent the performance of your investment (in this case bitcoin).  So part of the gamble is that if matters go to shit, you are still able to pay your loan with other proceeds... and that is the cost of your gamble not paying off.

The cost of your gamble paying off is that you end up having more money than you would have otherwise because your investment performed better than the cost of your loan.

The people who lose in these matters are those who are not prepared for either scenario.. and if you are only prepared for UPpity.. then you are inadequately prepared and gambling rather than investing.


You are investing more than you can afford to lose, if you have not already thought ahead about the cost of the loan and your ability to pay it back - either way the BTC price goes.  Not a good idea, as you are suggesting, but as you are not suggesting, the mere taking of a loan does not indicate that you are investing more than you can afford to lose, unless you are not financially (and psychologically) prepared to pay for the loan in the event that your investment does not pay off.

Most of the time on which people do really expect into the returns of their investment without even minding the due date or interest that they are really paying off out of those loans or borrowed money.
It is really just too risky because you dont know on what would happen in the market whether you could make out some profits or not and thats why its better to have some other back up source of
income which you could pay out those loans or borrowed money without any problems as long you are responsible on repaying those in time then i dont see any problems or anything wrong
on borrowing up as long you are responsible and wont impose out some problems.

For me it feels wierd to trade with borrowed money. I am not an expert in trading, so the risk of losing money in a trade is there and I can't imagine how I would feel if that money I lost wasn't even mine. For a very successful traders it can make sense to trade with borrowed money, because they leverage their returns like that. Similar to how the hedge funds operate, take a cheap loan and multiply your profits. The problem is that the risk of the trade multiplys also. Taking out loans means we need to repay the interest and if we didn't make a return for a while we could be forced to close out our position and be screwed. When trading only with our own equity we have more freedom, in times of falling prices we could just sit out the dip and wait for prices to recover. Interest rates are still cheap at the moment, what makes loans seem cheap right now. But interest rates have to rise to fight the higher inflation, which will make refinancing more expensive in the future. The only way were I could consider trade with borrowed money was if it is from family or very close friends. I would share all profits with them and make sure that they understand before there is a risk they could lose some of the money.

Investing in crypto is not something easy and the risks are also big so consider again before borrowing money to invest,
use cold money and I think it's the most appropriate thing,
the crypto market is really difficult to predict if we are not careful anytime we can lose money

Taking a loan to trade bitcoin is like adding fuel to fire which is not encourage for users  to embark on such decision in the community. Bitcoin price is unpredictable which will be difficult for people to use loan to make a good profit because the price can pump today and dump tomorrow which will not allow the short term investors to pay back the loan on time.
If the loan agreement is for 3 or 4 years, investing on long term will really help you to achieve something good from the loan when the price of bitcoin increase higher before the date of the agreement.

Invest on what you can afford to lose and dont ever consider on taking up some loan just to invest on crypto because it would not really give out any assurances or guarantees that you could make out money

of those investment and if you do mainly rely on it then you would really be putting yourself into trouble thats why on the time that you do make out investment then it would be good that you would really be

spending or investing the money which is just an extra or savings of yours but of course dont go all in with this one and only invest on what you can afford to lose.

I think it is the same concept where you borrow money and gamble it away from online/physical casinos- there is no absolute guarantee of profiting on your end.

It is up to you to decide which risks outweigh your decision. If you think that by borrowing money and investing you would be able to yield some profit, then feel free to do so. But remember that once you borrow money, you are under the obligation to return it on the agreed specified period. In the event that the period has already been elapsed and your borrowed money still has not yet matured, then you would just suffer the consequences and embrace the loss on it.

No doubt it's risky, very obvious in fact. But if you have a plan on how you are going to be carrying out the process, then I think it's not that foolish or risky to actually borrow some money and invest/trade with BTC.

Considering you know which way the market will move, sometimes you can make a hefty amount of money if you have a big capital to trade with. But, yeah if you don't have experience or never did it before, then it's a dumb idea to invest or trade by taking loans because then you will have the interest creeping up every passing day and you may lose the capital as well.

IMO there is nothing wrong with borrowing money to buy bitcoins what is wrong is that you borrow money from a bank to buy a car, vacation or buy jewelry. I'm sure there are many traders/investors who are successful or make big profits from borrowing money from banks to buy Bitcoin.

This is true, this is something you could really compared on borrowing into someone just because you are needing to buy something or investment which its not really  that different when it comes to this manner.
It isnt really that bad to borrow as long you do know on how to repay those loans or debts on proper or exact time which it would really make yourself able to avoid some problems.
As long you are aware with possible problems if you do miss out on paying then you should make yourself that responsible and serious on getting rid of it.
Sometimes this is really some sort of last resort if we dont have cash or something for us to invest specially when we do see some opportunity.

Right, i'm agree with you if borrowing money to invest in Bitcoin is part of the business. Some people borrow money because they lack capital so there is nothing wrong with doing this. Their purpose of investing is also to make a profit so there is nothing strange in my opinion. The problem of BItcoin prices that continue to experience fluctuations and unstable market conditions is indeed a risk that must be faced and cannot be avoided continuously. If you want to be successful you will also experience failure, what you can do is minimize the amount of loss you will experience.

Weird or not, can be subjective. Each person can have a different opinion about this. In my personal opinion, it is not weird but too risky. Always remember that investing in Bitcoin is a high risk. There is no guarantee that Bitcoin price continues to grow its value in the future. We don't really know if Bitcoin can have an uptrend or downtrend after we bought Bitcoin. Also, we cannot target a specific amount of profits got from Bitcoin investment. So, it is much better to use money that we can afford to lose.

Every decision to make would have corresponding risk whether on someone would able to take that risk or would totally avoid it, its actually on someones choice whether he could able to repay the loan or not.

Just like on what others mentioned above about opportunity and we dont have money left and as we do see some scenario or instances which we do really need to take some step or action then we dont have

any choice but to borrow and wont really like to miss out that opportunity so its a personal call whether you do proceed or not.

Actually it again depends on each individual because investing in crypto there is no guarantee of making a profit and the crypto market is difficult to predict
so if we borrow money to invest maybe it will increase the risk,
think carefully before borrowing money and better use cold money

Cryptocurrency but here are some of the things that are believed to be borrowing money to invest in bitcoin if not a good idea here will only lean towards something good if suddenly it is better to use money and I think the best option here is especially for you if you  If there is no capital then it is better to start investing in what you can do here but I think it is possible to reduce the most important risk here but it is not good to take more risk here.

It is not a good idea to make money from this type of answer and Aadhaar, but if you ask someone to invest money in NC here, you will be doing a lot of foolishness because it will increase your risk here. It is better to use money suddenly.  And I think it's the best option you can start politely if you don't have it, but I don't think it's a good idea to borrow here and risk it.

to be honest if you are reckless (borrowing money to buy Bitcoin) then there is nothing wrong with that. but you have to remember, you can only buy bitcoin with borrowed money when the price of Bitcoin drops, never buy bitcoin with borrowed money when the price is high or is bullish. I heard that some people profit from borrowed money but they buy it into bitcoin.

very bad if your money or capital is the result of a loan from a bank or someone else, because you have to know the risk you accept in crypto currency is very large,
you can lose your money, and I believe you can find it difficult to return the money from the loan that, my advice never borrow money and buy crypto currency,
use your own money and your investment will be much calmer.

You do not want to be frustrated if you cannot get the right pitch so invest in a good capo.  The reason is that from here on out the bitcoin market has become very tight now but here for sure you can't do it here.

yes you are absolutely right, because it is very high risk if you borrow money just to invest in crypto,
especially if you play in futures trading, I guarantee you will not be successful, your emotions, thoughts, and analysis will not be able to hold it.
if you really want to play and invest in crypto currency, it's better you use your own money, maybe from selling goods, or from your wages

It's a two ways thing , it could be profitable and in order hands not be profitable, the weird part of it is when you borrow and invest on a particular coin with the hope of getting profit to payback your debt and you get recked at the end of the process. So if someone wants to borrow money with the aim of investing into Bitcoin, I suggest it should be for long time, something like 1 Year and above because anything lesser than that could be weird.

Nothing is assured even if you do invest with bitcoin and you are relying on the profits of that on 1 year time.It not an assurance most of the time that you would be expecting to make money thats why its more important
that you should have other source of income on where you could able to repay those interest of those loans without any hiccups or problems.Its up to someones decision whether they would make out some loans or not .
Some might be aware of the financial capacity and some do make out rush decisions which would really make out these possible problems on not able to repay.
Its not bad to take loan on investing to bitcoin but be assure that you do have back up plans.

I would never advice you to borrow to invest in a very volatile market. Yeah a lot of expert might say Bitcoin will break the ATH soon but no one really knows for sure. The price can move against you at any time. How then do you intend to pay back your loan in such situation, considering you will have to pay interest too on the loan.

Cryptocurrency is too volatile so borrowing money to invest in it will only bring complications in a person's life. Saving and investing your own fruits of labor in it would be better. It's really tempting to invest with Bitcoin but if you can't make it that easy, you better work for and strive for it than to rush things out through borrowing.

It's true however before borrowing money to invest in crypto you need to consider it because it's too risky,
better use cold money it's much safer and make wise decisions because otherwise it will add to the problem,
most importantly think carefully before borrowing money for investment

I will never ask anyone to take such a gamble, I mean you can never be too sure with such odd, even the smallest odd to cut. I mean it just like betting on the biggest team not to lose and there are every possibilities that they will lose. So u can't borrow money and place on such a gamble. It might come through for you tho but what if it doesn't.

I think it is very risky and generally not worth borrowing money to invest, because in the end you have no control over anything and even if you think that the idea is 100% correct and now it will be TO THE MOON, it is only your opinion and the chance to be wrong in such a case is really huge!
I think that if you don't have a big amount to invest at one time, you should do it every month, but in small amounts.
I do it that way and am very satisfied. I don't really care about the price, because I'm investing for the long term and every month I buy coins, thus accumulating my asset.

I don't blame if you borrow to invest in bitcoin. it's just that, if you take out a loan you'll have a hard time paying it off. because there is no guarantee the bitcoins will increase over the term of your loan. this is very risky for you to do. so a good move is to take savings or work first to raise your own money and then invest.

If he's talking about some ideas about Bitcoin, then politely, here's the market for a while. He has no idea if they'll repay the loan, but we've mentioned the possibility of Bitcoin, but there's not much tension.  After a while, the market will return to normal, but investors will be under a lot of pressure to repay the loan if they have some patience, then their problem will be solved from here.

Best if he has other resources to pay that loan aside from waiting for his investment to grow.

This volatile industry is unknown. I mean, the chance is there either you'll gain profits or if the market does the sideways and
you don't have that knowledge and do the panic, the chance of losing a big portion of your loan money will be burned.
Unless you really have a deeper knowledge and you are willing to take that big risk, you never know what the future will be
the chance is equal to everyone it's on you take whether to deal with it or not.

Investing with borrowed money is actually never recommended for those who don't know how the market works. I once heard of a person who was very enthusiastic about investing and selling all his assets temporarily just to have capital to invest, but in the end he had to come out disappointed because the price of the assets he invested did not match his expectations.

From there we can learn that no matter how good the potential, we should only do it for what we can afford to lose. We really shouldn't be greedy because crypto is a very volatile asset so we should also be aware that at any time the price could drop far below what we expected.

The question here is rather not greed, but risks. As it was correctly noted earlier, taking a loan is not a crime - it is important to understand when and how you will give it.
It's not bad if there are some assets for unforeseen cases. Often the trouble is that the person who takes out a loan is prone to risk. We know many success stories when people soared to the top, but we do not know about those who went bankrupt or could not repay their debts and became bankrupt. In the case of bitcoin, you can take a risk, given the volatility, but you should always remember about 2019 - early 2020. How many people then "capitulated".

I would never ever loan or borrow any amount just for the purpose of investing into Bitcoin. Instead of loaning, I would rather earn it in any way even if it means of getting a low wage job, etc. That's where I usually started in low wage jobs in which I saved money in order to buy some cryptocurrencies even in just small amounts.

Good for you but there are people who do really need to take off some risk for them to make out some investment which it isnt really that bad to take some consideration when it comes to this matter.

As long you do know on how to repay those loan or debts then i dont see any problems with that but if you are into the situation which you couldnt able to do so then you should it as much as you could.

It would really be that much a good idea if you would save up money for you to make out investment with that.

You have the right idea, Pamadar; however, i just believe that you have not fleshed out the situation very well in terms of the value of being able to use a loan.

Of course, the bet could work out either way, and so that is part of the justification that anyone using a loan to speculate on bitcoin (or front load his investment) is prepared that the BTC price could move in either direction during the time of the loan.  There are ways to calculate a present value to the money, which I had done in some of my earlier posts in this thread.

Yeah, it is not guaranteed that the loan will pay off, but it is not merely a random assertion that it might work and it might not, and of course, everyone who is contemplating going through a process to use loan money to possibly increase their BTC stash, and to front load their BTC investment timeline should at least go through the individual calculation that attempts to account for the actual terms of the loan and the various up and down scenarios and then decide if overall it is better to get the loan rather than not getting the loan.  It could be a close call, and for sure, folks who have a lot more resources can both negotiate better loan terms, but also they can deal with negative outcomes too, including paying the loan off from sources outside of BTC's price going up (which it might not happen by the time the loan comes due).


Actually, the point about NOT being too greedy, is a good one because historically, bitcoin has shown that ONLY a relatively small amount of capital invested into it could pay of stupendously.  So if we might be recommending anywhere between 1% and 25% of an investment portfolio could end up in BTC, if an investor had put that 1% into bitcoin at any time before 2012, the 1% may well have ended up being 95% or more of overall value, if the value had not been reallocated.

Of course, some aspects of bitcoin's upside potential has gone away, so the downside is less risky, but the upside is also less likely to appreciate 1,000x... or even 160x as it had done if an investor had gotten into bitcoin in 2015 when BTC was in the lower $200s for a considerable time for that whole year (2015 I mean).

I am not in favor of borrowing money to invest in Bitcoin. I think it’s weird to invest other peoples money because of risk. If you’re looking to buy your first home, I can possibly understand borrowing some money from friends and/or family because it’s a physical asset.
At worst case if a serious recession occurs at least you have a shot of holding on to the home and living in it. Personally, I do think Bitcoin is a great investment opportunity, especially for the long hold but not with other people's money.

Of course it will be profitable, but if and only if you have privileged information all the time or have a very broad understanding of the market, but if you ask for a loan with long-term payment facilities it would be ideal because that way you would have There is more opportunity that bitcoin can rise in price and thus be able to pay the installments quickly, currently I do not see it as bad to ask for a loan to buy BTC, but that you have the capacity to pay at least so that you can pay in installments.

I have only one question for the author. Are you so confident in your skills that you are ready to invest with the money you borrowed? Don't you think it could end differently?

However it depends on each person's ability because basically borrowing money to invest in Bitcoin is one way,
but it must be remembered that investing in crypto is a big risk and of course you need to consider many things before making a decision to borrow money,
long-term investment in Bitcoin is the right and profitable choice

I am going to suggest that it is almost impossible to have confidence that you are going to have superior information for the duration of any loan term whether that is a loan that is as short as 1 year or a loan that might have a longer duration that goes up to 3 years or more. 

Many of us who are into bitcoin likely have superior information about bitcoin in the event that we might have conclusions that are similar to Michael Saylor to have some bullish longer term views that likely go beyond 4-10 years, and even in terms of 4 years or longer, we have largely high levels of probabilities that we consider to be in favor of Bitcoin having higher prices in 4 years or longer than it has today.

So, yeah, many times there are loan terms that are not easy to get for 4 years or longer, except for being able to put down collateral, and the shorter term loans that are less than 4 years are going to run risks that the price of BTC may well be lower than the price when getting the loan and of course, mere break even prices will have to account for the cost of the loan (whatever fees and interest was incurred to enter into the loan).

So my point is that any superior information that any of us has in respect to bitcoin is likely based on probabilities that we understand that the longer the time period the more likely the BTC price is going to be up, and in the shorter term (such as less than 4 years) it is much more difficult to know enough of the factors that might end up moving BTC price to proclaim that we have superior information beyond maybe being able to assign a bit higher probabilities to UP rather than down.. but still would not necessarily mean that the price might not end up moving against what had been the direction with the higher odds at the time of the assignment.

Of course, the most sophisticated of players will have hedges for the potentiality of the BTC price to go in either direction, and the capital (or extra cashflow) from a loan may well be used to more comfortably be able to move into those kinds of bets.


Maybe you should explain your question a bit better in terms of what you might be suggesting?

Are you suggesting to invest into bitcoin, but not to use a loan?  Even some of us who are suggesting that a loan could be considered, most of those who are suggesting the consideration of a loan, are not proclaiming the conclusion to be obvious and for sure even if OP seems to be leaning towards considering loans to be potentially used to cause better situations (especially for rich peeps), the fact that s/he is asking the question does not suggest that s/he already has the answer, even if s/he is already leaning towards considering loans to allow for leveraging that might not be possible without such loan(s).


Of course, there is a correct framing that a loan is not necessarily needed in order to likely be profitable with bitcoin.  Historically, bitcoin investors have been very profitable in bitcoin without necessarily using loans, and likely in the future bitcoin will continue to be relatively greatly profitable as compared with other possible investments and likely to pump forever as has been described by several folks who study what bitcoin actually is, what it is doing and its position in the world.. so the pumping forever seems likely to continue to happen in some kind of a way, if the investor is able to use 4-10 years or longer as his/her investment timeframe.

It is not weird to borrow  to buy bitcoin especially when sales is going on. I have had to borrowd to buy bitcoin during the pandemic and there were irrational dumping of bitcoin in march 2020. That decision was one of the best decision I ever made in life!

So, it's okay to borrow money and to invest in a physical asset? Why? because you can see it or you can sell it? I think bitcoin has no difference to the other physical assets, it's just btc is digital but they can act the same, you can also sell your btc.

If you can ask a loan from your family and friends, that's better than loaning on some company because there will be less pressure since you know them personally and you can easily make an excuse if ever btc value didn't pumped yet. It's not weird to borrow money to someone else because you're still going to pay them and borrowing money is an old thing already. It's helpful is use in the right way.

That’s really a genuine and smart method to get Bitcoins and hold them until the price rises.
Moreover what’s OP also said can be done too.
If you see for the past 1 month, Bitcoins are falling till 37K usd then again after some days they reaching at 45k usd and this is going on a continuous basis.
If someone have watched this trend then i am sure for short term he might have made good profits.

Still borrowing someone’s else money and using it is really riskier.
But guess what, opinions regarding this will vary from people to people.

Very much enlightened and thanks for that insight, I agree with how you describe people who will take this kind of risk.

Taking loans after working with their own understanding on how the market may favor them and also accepting
the kind of risk in case the market will go sideways, a good preparation to have a backup resource to pay back
the loan amount, it will be crucial for small time investors, but for those who have that good credit, they can play
both Long and short investment plan.

it is really high speculation if borrwing money only to buy bitcoin or cryptocurrency, i am curious what will we gonna do if our investment running as not our hope ? by borrowing money , its easy to us being panic when price drop and maybe our goal earning money from here being earning loss. take loan for buying and home totally different, in a day bitcoin price could drop 10% and even more if continuely drop day by day. ratio between risk and profits was equal, and its be a differentiator investing in home or properti. price move steady and maybe only growth 20% in year but difficult to drop from our buying price.

Of course, it could be that some people might end up calculating the probabilities of UP, versus DOWN versus SIDEways wrong, but if the ultimate conclusion is that the odds for UP are pretty high, then it may well make sense to take the debt, even though the price could end up going the other way - but the overall odds still justified taking the bet.

So, each person will have to weigh the probabilities, and how much of a burden they might suffer if they end up getting the bet wrong.  So for example, if they take a loan for $10k and that loan has a 2 year duration, so they already know that the loan is going to cost them something like $1k, so they already account for that.  At the same time, they calculate the odds of the BTC price going up or the BTC price going down within those two years and they conclude that it is likely to go up more than 10% (in order to pay for the debt), but even if it does not end up going up 10%, they realize that the most that it is going to cost them would be $1k to take that gamble so long that they have their back up funds accounted for.    So, a common way that people consider would be the mistaken calculation regarding which way the BTC price might go, yet another way would be if the person failed/refused to calculate the costs, and/or even to end up enduring more costs because they were gambling on the source of the back up funds, too.

We already likely realize that there are some people who take chances on loans and credit who are not really in a position to take such chances, and frequently we will hear about those kinds of incidents, we should try NOT to be that kind of a person who does not adequately calculate based on his/her own situation.. and yeah, even one of the common calculations might regard a future cashflow that might have a 80% to 90% odds of continuing, but on the other hand could end up drying up, too.... and just because there are a variety of calculations or places that the loan could go wrong, there still is likelihood that a person can sufficiently research into his/her own situation to be able to calculate whether or not to use a loan as leverage - and without knowing the potential borrower's situation, the answer is not obviously one way or another.

I wouldn't do that and I wouldn't even advise anybody to do that, Bitcoin has zero guarantee and your debtor might even run inpatient, It could also pay off for you. So it like placing your fund on bet, anything could happen, we no fortune tellers.😃😃

If you do have other sources of income which you could able to repay those debts then i dont see something for it to be wrong but it would be good that you do make yourself out from debt or loans and much better if you

do make use your own savings or funds on making out investment and dont stress out yourself on paying up something because you have taken some loan earlier but there are instances or situations which cant be avoided
for you to do so because not all the times we do really have that money to invest on thats why taking up some loan would be our last resort or chance.

I think it all depends on the situation and condition of each individual. If by borrowing it doesn't cause a problem with our finances because we may have spare funds to pay it off if something bad happens, it might not be a problem. especially if the moment is right for that time, for example the price of bitcoin is experiencing a discount, with knowledge of crypto, then this cannot be called gambling. in contrast to us rushing to buy without good knowledge, and without good calculations too, then this includes gambling, where the risk is big.

These days something curious happened to me, I was dreaming about this thread, and in my dream I thought that it is not bad to borrow to buy BITCOIN as long as it is not in its last ATH, what should be responsible is in Having the necessary capacity to pay the loan with its corresponding installments without letting one's life get out of control is like making an effort to guarantee the best possible life for oneself and one's family.

There are many who get into debt and want to pay the loan with the profitability that the BTC provides them, and if it is not generated? That is where the problem comes in, I think that is the main reason that must be taken into account.

Here, but for every person to go here and edit on the power or not, to be polite, if I say here that if a person buys Bitcoin, then it should be bought by borrowing his money, but it should be remembered that acting in a stingy way is a  The big risk is that the reason for this age is that if he has knowledge about it then he must have some of these. Before you decide to borrow money, the thing you have here is do you have any idea about iftar?

Borrowing money to invest in bitcoin is definitely a risky game. It could go either way,profitable or in loss. So would you be able to take care of the loss, the pressure from whomever you might have borrowed from? It's not just weird but a bloody risk when it does go south. It's best you use your own money and one that you can actually afford to lose. Also if you insist on borrowing just make sure it's a long term investment from a bearish to a bullish season.

It seems to me that borrowing money for investment is not the best option. At least I wouldn't do that.

You would really need to risk something if you are really tending to get some chance to make some or more profits specially on crypto investment but it wont really be an assurance even if you do stick with Bitcoin.

Well, we know on whats the potential of Bitcoin could give but rest assured there are people who do keep or staying up their eyes on altcoins yet the return or profits thats why they do really taking up some

shot into it where they dont really just limit out on Bitcoin alone but also in other possible coins as well.Borrowing isnt weird as long you do know your obligations.

You are right, problems will start to arise when the borrowed money we use to buy Bitcoin cannot be able to provide the profit we expect.
Especially if we plan to pay the loan money from the profit generated from Bitcoin, it was a very stupid act. Because Bitcoin movement is
very volatile, so the profits we get will not be fixed. Meanwhile, if we owe the installments that must be paid, there must always be a routine
according to the agreed date, if we don't have the money to pay the debt installments, we will definitely run into big problems.

Therefore, using borrowed money to invest in Bitcoin is not recommended, especially since the price of Bitcoin is very volatile, because it will be
a problem for us in the future. Unless we have another source of income to pay our debt installments, it is still understandable if we borrow money
to invest in Bitcoin. But it would be even better to use the extra money we have for investing in Bitcoin, because the risk is too high for us to use
borrowed money to buy Bitcoin. We must remember that investing in Bitcoin does not need to be with large capital, but it will be more effective
to use capital according to our respective financial capabilities.

Even though you have another source of income it's not executable. Nobody knows for how long bitcoin will keep stable on the currently price range or if it will crash further, but it's sure you will have to pay the loan back every month to the bank. And the interest charged is too high. I usually see people borrowing money in order to buy a car or a house and when I see how much they are being charged by the banks in interest percentage, I conclude they could be purchasing two cars or two houses with the money they are paying back to the bank, if they were more economical and didn't rely on banks for money.

With bitcoin it's the same principle. Being economical it's possible to acquire more bitcoins, instead of filling the banks' pockets with easy profit through loans.

in fact, it is the first thing to think about before borrowing money to buy bitcoin. what if our profits from bitcoin can't pay the loan? well, because of that, if someone wants to borrow money for bitcoin, then it is necessary to make sure that the income must be large enough to pay the bill.
however, borrowing money to buy bitcoins is a very risky thing that I thought up to now. however, in the crypto world, especially bitcoin, the fluctuations that occur are not easy to predict. maybe this will be profitable if it is held in the long term, but to pay debt bills, we need other income. it would be better if we only buy bitcoin with a few percent of the salary or income that we have each month. it is a safe movement, and the risk is small. however, some people are able to take the big risks and make these loans for bitcoins. it's just that, some of these people are not ready for the risks that could happen at any time.

Even if the price of Bitcoin goes down i will never risk any amount of money that i get from everyone. I prefer to invest from my own savings or money. In that case, even if i fail and my investment din not end  as a profit but losses., I will never ever having a hard time and think of any way on how to pay those amount of money that i borrow from my friends or relatives.

We should borrow money from bank only for urgent needs. Because we will be charged a fairly large interest and it will be detrimental to us
if we borrow money for something that is not urgent. Therefore it is not a good choice if we invest in Bitcoin but use money from a bank loan.
As you said borrowing money is not economical, because we will spend more money in the end. So if we want to live more economically,
it is better not to depend on borrowing money from the bank. Especially for investing in Bitcoin, where the price is very volatile, we don't know
when we can make a profit from Bitcoin. While the money loan from the bank has a predetermined repayment period, it will be a problem when
we have not made a profit, but we have entered the due date of debt payments. Loans from banks will only make us panic and take wrong
decisions when used for investment, especially if the market moves not according to our expectations, this will make our economy more problematic.

it depends on who gives the loan. and is there an agreed time for its return?
if borrowing from a bank or other institution to invest in Bitcoin must be a very bold decision. even that could be a reckless act.

This reminds me of the news on social media a few years ago. when the price of bitcoin drops, some people sell their houses and car assets to invest in bitcoin.

Much better to earn and save first before entering an investment thing but if you can handle the stress and all the negative thing when your investment doesn't reach your goal then go on. It is your choice to invest and borrow some money at your own risk.

Borrow if you could able to bare the risk but if not then better wait for the right time be because there's right time on everything but I could not blame on why others is on the rush because opportunities do really come on an unexpected way which you would need to act fast so that you could take advantage of it and this is where taking loan or borrowing money would be one of your options.So it's a personal choice and be sure or responsible on repaying those in the right time so that you would avoid problems.

Your way of framing this whole matter comes off as quite strange uneng, and it is like you are failing/refusing to appreciate both the time value of money and considerations regarding the varying ways to value what a loan might be used for.

In other words, borrowers can increase their overall situation by being able to get some kind of product or good today rather than saving up for the product or good , even if they end up paying more for it after making the payments which presumably would include the accounting for interest and service fees.

Surely some kinds of ways to use money are nearly completely losing propositions in terms of their being considered as investing wisely because they are depreciating in value.  In that regard, historically consumption goods such as  new cars would rapidly depreciate in value, and maybe a home would retain value or even appreciate in value during the time of the loan - including that a home and a car would also have utility value, too.. so in that regard, not all homes are cars would be equal in terms of how practical they might be..,. but there still should be ways to calculate the various kinds of values to figure out if it would be worth it to get a loan to be able to get the good/or product today rather than waiting (presumably saving up and waiting and then needing to hold value in cash or to invest the value in something else while saving up to buy the good/product).

We can make similar kinds of calculations with bitcoin to assess how much does it cost to service the loan and to make our calculations of expected value, and surely one of the potentially BIGGER risks with using our loan proceeds to buy bitcoin is that it has tended to have more volatility - so for very long periods of time (maybe even 3 years or longer) the BTC price could be lower than it had been, so if we use a loan to buy BTC during those periods in which it is either going down or NOT going up, then we would have been better off to just buy BTC on a regular basis rather than getting a loan and lump summing into it at the earlier date. 

Of course, part of my point is that the answer is not obvious, including that the time value of money is also going down - especially in recent times - If we are ending up with money supply that inflates around 10% - 30% per year, then those kinds of increases in the money supply provide very strong evidence that your money is likely going to continue to be less, and whether it ends up being less by the 2% to 8% amounts that the powers that be (places like the Fed) are telling you that it is or if you actually can see that a lot of your own expenses seem to be going up in greater amounts on average, maybe even in the 15% to 20% arena, depending on the kinds of things that are in your own personal budget. and whether you have flexibility in changing some of them... but almost no matter what, the mere fact that the terms of a 5 or 15 year loan might cause you to pay 2-3 times the original cost of the item does not mean that you are actually paying back the loan with dollars that have the same value that they had at the time that you originated the loan.   

A lot of the actual numbers can be projected, but in times like these, there should be some need for margin of error, and if you merely go by the nominal amount that you pay back being way more, then you likely are not adequately accounting for so many of the ways that the money and the goods are changing in value along the way..   

Specifically in regards to bitcoin, the mere fact that it is volatile should not cause folks to presume that it is an inferior place to put their money, but any person who is somewhat sophisticated in attempting to manage their risks would not be ONLY relying on the paying back of the loan based on the proceeds from Bitcoin going up in value, because there is a need to account for the BTC price going either way - so the main part of the calculation seems to revolve around both the consideration of whether there is a desire to front load lump sum buy bitcoin (and also to incur the fees involved with a loan) or to just buy bitcoin as your money comes in.  Surely, some folks are in a better position to negotiate more favorable loan terms both in terms of interest rates and fees and also in terms of timeline for paying it back.

Well if you borrow money without an interest to invest in Bitcoin then i will say that it was great, but if you borrow money with interest i think you are in a very risky position, we already know that crypto investment is risky and every year there is a market situation that can make is loss or earn look at btc now it is dropping from the 60k$ ATH on year 2021 it is now 29k$ imagine how frustrated you are if you saw your investment drop and the money you used to invest has an interest to pay every month that was very frustrating.

Who nowadays would be giving out some loan or let you borrow some money without any interest aside from family members? None right. For sure you would really able to borrow on common places which does have interest.Its not really bad to take loan as long you are responsible on repaying it on time so that you wont really be having problems.
Borrowing money isnt just simple because you do need to be that capable which means that complying still some requirements unless if you do know someone
who could lent you without any agreements or something like that.

I do have some fear in lending some money. I am some feat that i might not be able to pay those amount specially when i invest it in cryptocurrency. What if i do some wrong moves in trading and not gain any amount. How will I be able to pay the money that i borrowed.

I think it is good to save and invest. But if you are confident enough and have the ability to earn then go, follow your mind.Invest whatever you wanted.

That's exactly the reason why I would advice against borrowing money to invest in crypto currencies. On paper it sounds like a nice way too boost profits, but there is no guarantee that it's actually going to work out. Markets can move against us, and when they do it means that it will hurt twice as much when we lose and when we have to repay the loan. Getting a loan with zero interest rate is hard to get, and probably means asking friends and family for money. The problem with trading with their money is, that they might need the money short term. What if you are forced to sell at very bad levels? For me there is just too much risk involved, better to first save and invest later. There is also the risk to ruin your credit score if something goes wrong.

such a situation would be very painful. too great a risk to accept. especially if you borrow money from a bank, there must be interest and the payment is due.

except, if the borrowing is like borrowing capital from people who are ready to share the profits or losses. there must be a written agreement in advance, when the money used for trading or investment will be returned within a certain time or when the agreed profit is reached.
This of course requires trust and understanding in investing in the crypto market from both parties. it may be very difficult to get a loan from such a person.