Bitcoin Forum

According to this article  Bitcoin price plunge wipes hundreds of billions from global cryptocurrency markets
 (https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/investing/bitcoin-price-plunge-wipes-hundreds-of-billions-from-global-cryptocurrency-markets/news-story/06daff96db7a2928bcb0f9e96ffc6c59), the dropped was may cause by long term investors trying to cash out for profit, but one thing that coincides with the timing is the Direxion Bitcoin Strategy Bear ETF which is betting against the success of bitcon.

Here's the exact text from the article.


Is this a hindrance to the success of bitcoin in the future?

How and why?

No. An ETF betting against bitcoin may add volatility, but in the long run bets against strong projects lose. It happens in the crypto world and in the stock market.

On the other hand, look how long the flash crash has lasted, we are already a bit above the price before the supposed "crash", which I would call small dip.

No, I cannot imagine how a Bitcoin ETF could possibly bring down Bitcoin. Are they going to buy a lot and then dump them all at once to pull the market down? That's still pushing the price up before pulling it down. It is basically the same.

Also, Bitcoin's success does not necessarily depend on its price. The price is just one aspect of Bitcoin.

This particular ETF is going to fail if its goal is just to bring down Bitcoin and is made apparent before it is even approved.

It's the kind of ETF where it goes up whenever BTC goes down.

It's not necessarily a 1:1 relationship, as it's possible for the ETF to surge to some higher value first without a corresponding drop in the BTC price.

You've been here since 2015, you should know by now to not read into such exaggerated articles. "Plunges", yea, down $6k literally after we went 2x since the beginning of the year.

It was merely a coincidence. I don't think the two were related, at all. Will it become a hindrance? In what particular way? But, overall, I don't think so.

I doubt an external financial product which makes people bet against Bitcoin would be successful. There could only be one reason for betting against Bitcoin and that's making profit on your trades. On the other hand, there are so many reasons for buying Bitcoin. A rising price value is just one of them. Protection against government monetary abuses, inflation, seizure, censorship, and so on are another.

Bitcoin market is sometimes pretty weird and certain movements are hard to explain. It is just market participant behavior. This was one of them.

Everything in this statement is wrong.

First of all in bitcoin market we never call a "15%" drop (the from $67k to $56k) a "crash" it is categorized under corrections. A crash is when price drops at least 30% (meaning if it had dropped down to $47k which it obviously didn't). Not to mention that price jumped back up which shows that it was an unnatural drop otherwise price remained low.

Secondly this statement is contradictory itself! "Long term holder" is not someone who sells right as the price is starting to rise. The "short term traders" are the ones selling when price rises and it makes no sense for them to sell when we set a new ATH. They ALWAYS sell when we reach the previous ATH meaning  they should have sold when price surpassed $60k not $7k later. This is the weird part I told you about.

Finally you can't make this conclusion based on "blockchain data". When you look at the blockchain you can NEVER figure WHERE the coins are going or WHY. Just because some coins moved it doesn't mean they were sold even if you think the destination is an exchange.

Exchanges and whales control games. They have data on what price cohorts are existing in Bitcoin investors and what price range has most investors to participate in.

They know when open positions in Future and Leverage tradings are soaring too high. Long squeeze has happen and when it happens, you will receive some news or fud to legalize the crash. I don't believe it is real reason, just tip of iceberg and real reasons are in depth of the iceberg that most of newbie investors don't know.

If it affected the market, then it will be short term. And as far as I know, those whales doesn't buy directly a bitcoin, they are not trading bitcoin per se.

Maybe it's just a coincidence that this long term holder suddenly dumps to cause the market to go down. But here we are, still above $61,000 so the effect is minimal. And on the contrary, it might be good for others to enter the picture again. So the answer is No, it won't be a hindrance, we might just consider it as normal part of the market now with this ETF instruments.

A financial derivative(like the ETF mentioned above) cannot bring the Bitcoin price down.
Bitcoin futures are just placing a bet about the future Bitcoin price.That doesn't mean that the BTC futures have any direct influence over the price.Having lots of Bitcoin shorting creates some expectations that the future Bitcoin price might be lower than the current BTC price,but that doesn't mean that those expectations will become reality.
The current BTC price drop is caused mostly by the hodlers and traders selling their BTC and taking the profits.This means that they don't think that bull run will continue towards 70K USD,so they are selling now,before the price drops.

There was a significant change in the price, that's true. But does the reason truly matter if the price corrected itself in a matter of hours? Some people perhaps sold a lot of bitcoins, and the price globally changed from $61.3k to $58.5k fast. But in a matter of hours it went to $62k, and has been fluctuating above $60k ever since. I believe it's not a big deal that flash drops happen, as long as the situation changes rather fast. It's good news that the market pushes back, and does so successfully. And media are using these short-term events to spread FUD about Bitcoin and about cryptos, which is unfair.

As long as Bitcoin doesn't become too overvalued or too undervalued, fluctuations in the price are perfectly natural. If the price goes down 10%, then there is a good opportunity to buy Bitcoins again. Another interesting fact is that the price tends to go down when there's bad news (the geopolitical situation, Bitcoin adoption in emerging markets, Chinese market, etc) and goes up when there's good news (Bitcoin adoption in developed economies, or the launch of new Bitcoin futures-based ETF). This causes a lot of volatility, but that's part of the character of Bitcoin.

Yup, its still over 60K which is still a good price when we compare where we are in the past few months and its unimaginable amount from ots last lowest low of 2020. These are such articles created for attention seeking and nothing more with such kind of things we are creating panic among the newbies.

What I know is that there's an option that's about to expire or did it expired already. But in this highly volatile market, no one really has the data of the reason of the sudden drop.

It's a flash drop because we've met a new ATH but we're still up and better. And whenever there's a quick drop, it's just people taking profits and when there's a pump, there's a news that encourages everybody to buy.

People would assume that everyone is selling their bitcoin to buy some pumping meme coins.

im guessing this is about the small event of the binance.US recently

..
in actual news. this was an order error by one investor on one orderbook of one exchange. it did not affect the bitcoin price over all.

also to note. the market cap of bitcoin is not a real money number. its a multiplication of a price estimate of a single btc. that is all. there is no real money backing the market cap stat. its just an empty number.
so no.. "hundreds of billions" were not wiped from the market

and no it was not triggered by some ETF thing. it was just a bad number entry which a [whale] guy put into his bot to sell down to $8k rather then $58k

well i can say now that its not surprising elon musk saying we must hold because perhaps he forgot to set his take profit. Lol imagine waiting for bitcoin to go up more because you want to implement your exit strategy wherein to manipulate the price as well but unfortunately someone do it for you.  ;D let's just sell guys it's over obviously.. Much better to wait for another time to buy. Alts is pumping right now maybe a good idea.

Bear ETF, never heard of this before but if this is to bet against the future of Bitcoin, then it will not certainly win since the majority of investors are bullish in long term for bitcoin.  An expert once said that if you want to be a millionaire, allocate a portion of your savings into bitcoin, and I take that advice as a recipe for success, so whatever platforms would operate to bet against the bullish future of bitcoin, it will not succeed.

Short-term price movement does not significantly affect the future of bitcoin, sometimes it's just a way to scare the weak hands and if they dump, whales will eventually buy those discounted Bitcoins.

I consider that is why the bitcoin flash drop and when this happens, people see the price can drop too far so they follow the price movements by selling their bitcoin. But then, the support can lift the price, although it could not move fast to back to the current price before. The bitcoin market will be like that and sometimes, we will see a drop in the price but we do not have to panic because the price will be back to the high price by increasing fast or slowly. You need just to prepare yourself and be ready for any situation and conditions with bitcoin.

Oh sweet summer child, if only that was actually the case. For every level-headed investor that's long-term bullish on bitcoin, there are probably a dozen of inexperienced "investors" that would immediately dump their bitcoin the second their sights land on some negative news.

I am not getting exactly why and how ETF could dump Bitcoin price instead of pulling up? Are you guys why expecting that Bitcoin should only pump and shouldn't dump ever? Bitcoin price is driven by the community and investors. So if the investor thinks they need cash out then there would increase sell pressure which will dump Bitcoin price. It's the natural game of Bitcoin volatility. We shouldn't much worry about such as small dump where the price almost doubled from last few months.

Technically speaking you're right and agree to your statement 100%. But there's always a reason behind this flash crash. I don't believe in coincidence since this flash crash or pump always everytime a bitcoin option contracts are closed to expire.

This is just my theory and might be happening, Some group of whales bet on ETF while holding Bitcoin at the same time, They will manipulate the price of Bitcoin by giving a buy/sell pressure on exchange which will result for exchange triggering to sell-off as a reaction. They timing it so that they can gain on there ETF during its closing. Doing this kind of manipulation is safe for them since crypto exchange is not fully regulated and there's no way to verify that they are the one doing this manipulation. This is the common scenario on a volatile crypto market so no one will gonna suspect on this kind of dirty job.

there will be no barrier that is really a barrier to bitcoin success.
Remember when the bitcoin price was around $3000, Bitcoin was heavily criticized as a scam investment and would go down to worthless.
Some speculations are deliberately made to lower the price of bitcoin.
the decline this time was even insignificant and bitcoin still found its bounce.
Bitcoin will hit a new ATH again and any barrier will be broken by bitcoin.

They manage to keep gold's price low for decades. If they want this for bitcoin, they can probably do it. But in this particular situation, I think it was more of a fat finger thing. I believe some dude wanted his lambo so he cashed out huge amounts or some other big whale wanted to destroy longs. It used to happen a lot more.

"Plunges" is kind of an exaggerated word. Right now is just went back up to 60k+, so are we now calling it surge immediately? It is Bitcoin just being Bitcoin, aside from the ETF as others mentioned above. It is not even something worth discussing right now.
The price moves and the news goes crazy over it.

Expect that in every price increase or price drop for bitcoin, it has its corresponding reason to discuss which i think is not needed though since we all know that bitcoin price will be in an upward trend. And with this previous bitcoin flash drop, i think if it caused by some investors who start cashing out their profits, well its just normal. The market will surely react once there are sudden selling of coins. But i don't agree why an ETF causes bitcoin to crash. On thing i am certain, bitcoin will never be affected that much and will always come up with its price surging.

Im aint already surprised on how things do works or on how this market behaves because everything is really totally random and there's no way that you could really be able to find out some reason on whats happening behind the curtains because the price could move on its own without really any basis
or you couldnt really tell but rather it would be more worth if you do mind on how to get in or buyback with cheaper bitcoin because that opportunity
doesnt really come in a while specially if theres some huge correction.

It is very difficult to find out the real reason for the movement of Bitcoin, because Bitcoin moves very fast and just happens. That is why
the risk of investing in Bitcoin is very high, because it is very difficult to predict Bitcoin price movements. Instead of worrying about why
the price of Bitcoin is going down, we should be able to move quickly to buy Bitcoin,  because of how deep the price of Bitcoin has fallen.
If we are able to be patient holding Bitcoin, then making a profit is only a matter of time. That's why I always buy more Bitcoin when there is
a correction.

Bitcoin price is always a stress test. At certain times some barrier breaks and many need to change the forecast. There will always be big falls and big rises in the opening or closing times of some big market. Bitcoin works 24 for 7, but markets that put usd in or take it out don't work. So, of course, several factors lead to these sudden changes, but if they occur at the time of opening or closing of a large global market, they cannot be attributed to a single fact, but rather to a readjustment of the target price.

That article is right since not everyone will still hold once the profit is there and sometimes the word new ATH is one of the best time for whales to take their profit that's why after that level achieve the sudden drop happen and we need to be mindful on that since correction always happen and its good to ride with the whales to buy again to earn on next pull up.

Maybe for now that rejection on ETF is the hindrance since it can cause negative effect to the bitcoin but don't get afraid on it since its temporary and for sure people will forget about it.

The reason for bitcoin flash drop is because the year is very approaching that many investors are everywhere to get their own profits before the end of the year.
This season always cause bitcoin price to decrease in the market because there are many traders who really understood this season very well, that the price of bitcoin will soon increase higher in this month of November, it is better for them to hold for the price to increase higher before release them for sale. Before the end of this week bitcoin price will hit $70k despite the decrease many long term investors are going through  now in the market. This price drop will not last more than 3 days before the price will increase higher for bitcoin users to achieve their profits.

Seeing the results that have been achieved in previous marriages made me dare to make someone's decision to marry her. This is a big responsibility and not playing games. Therefore I will not interfere with the two of each other. The house is also tight and liked by  many people because it is easy to find and doesn't make us all get lost in the forest. Honestly, this is the first invitation after a long time, I'm also happy to be a happy family.

This is an important point from the article:


As we can see there are few people holding too many coins. That means these individuals have too much power in crypto market to cause big fluctuations like the most recent one which pushed bitcoin down to 58,000$. But the good news is that after each crash, the power these investors have decreases considerably, as they are selling coins to someone else (probably new investors). On long run bitcoins will be splitted among more hands, so the volatility is going to decrease and sharp crashes will be less likely to happen.

You are like very sure here that bitcoin will achieve the $70k this week. But, everyone is free to speculate so let us see if this prediction will happen very soon. But these 'flash' drops do happen many times, with reason or no reason, as these are already part of the trading market. It is up to the trader how he will take advantage of those price changes. Also, in every rise or drop, there are several reasons why it happens, I can't attribute it to only one factor. They are combination of major and minor events in the market.

I'm not sure it will have any effect on the price of Bitcoin long term, but it definitely seems like mass market manipulation if a hedge fund was involved. The fact that the price recovered as fast as it dropped indicates that there is either a massive pool of buyers ready to snap back up to around the current price or that the whole trade was an illusion designed to provoke mass selling. If it was the latter then we need to find out the exchanges that were involved because it would seem that they are part of the reason and possibly trying to defraud the market by forcing the price down - so they can buy back in at a cheaper price.

ETF cannot be a hindrance to the success of Bitcoin in the future, it is possible of course to have negative effects on Bitcoin and cause Bitcoin some stumbles but of course this will not lead to the collapse of Bitcoin, Bitcoin is much stronger than that, you can see how the price fell to 30k and then It came back and crossed 67K in a few months, this is an indication of the strength of Bitcoin, in addition to that, Bitcoin is not based on speculation only, but Bitcoin is a usable currency and has a big project that was created to solve the big problems that exist in the banking financial system, so I don't see that there is anything that can Being a hindrance to Bitcoin right now.

Yes bitcoin cannot be manipulated by NFT or even any other minor events and moreover the only possibilities of bitcoin dump would be some strict action from government of China or USA and that too it would be temporary dump and it would bounce back like we have experienced in the past.

A Bear Bitcoin ETF would not be such a bad bet.

As assuming it tracked bitcoins using the CME futures there is a 10-20% per year roll benefit.

Meaning that the ETF return would not be the same a -BTC price but would be -BTC price +15% per year.

So as long a Bitcoin went up by less than 15% a year you would make money. So you are betting Bitcoin will below $100k in 3 years time.

A brave bet but not an unreasonable one.

Dec13->Dec17 it went from $1000 to $700

This was posted on October 29.
Today : November 2nd we are actually seeing a positive growth, like right now if you analyze the market I think it's not bad for the overall health of Bitcoins.

That's just how investments work, when the price rises people usually sell their holdings for some money and when the price goes down it's usually balance by other, new investors, therefore if we are talking about this situation here, it's not at all a bad one, it's pretty normal.

As you can clearly see that the price bounced back up and soon enough we might see bitcoins hitting heights in 2022.

Plus people are rolling their investments in futures as well. The companies also sell something like micro futures as I have heard.

It's nothing to be worried about, it's a healthy market chart.

I agree it's too much if using that word for just a usual correction, the price is already recovering right now and the bull run seems not over yet.
The media is always making bad news whenever the price of bitcoin going down a bit and starts link the unrealted problems to the price decrease.
We should be cling firmly about the market and it won't down that easy with such a little or unrelated news.

Hold your horses there, buddy. Don't be too hasty buying one. You already said that it is very difficult to predict it, so why not wait for a bit for more dips, before deciding to buy? Just hold if it does not seem to be that worth the buy for you. I ain't buying one for now.

In the usual social media platforms, Bitcoin just went down by 1k and every crypto news are now claiming to be crypto experts. :)

Flash Crash = Computer Glitch

Enjoy ! =D