Bitcoin Forum

Hi exhodlers,

I know many of you wish not selling early your BTC. This is very common story, I wish I hadn’t sell my bitcoins for cheap X years ago. Now it would be worth Y millions of dollars. I have idea for new coin/token:

We create smart contract for HODLing bitcoin for 5 years (that’s rough number, could be anything). For users who send their BTC to the smart contract, some new token or coin would be given. Tokens have their tokenomics, the whole thing is DAO with voting, stakings, farmings etc. For HODLers NFTs can be generated to create community thing.

Anyone interested in participating the project? Call it HodlCoin

There's no purpose to create another useless token for this reason. If you want to ensure you'll own coins in X years, just follow the steps below:

• Create a new seed phrase and derive an address.
• Sign a transaction where you send all of your coins to that address and make it valid after a certain block.
• Lose access to your coins. (Delete the wallet file, destroy the old seed phrase etc.)

Now you have no coins until the block you chose is mined. Needless to say how not recommended this is.

If someone wants to hodl bitcoin, they should hodl just that: bitcoin. If one can’t resist the temptation to sell, then so be it, but it would seemingly be quite absurd to hold some other sort of token, pretending that it is risk free and anywhere near hodling the real deal.

Not sure how that's hodling, that just seems like investing in something else, and with so many options out there, this doesn't seem like it would generate that much interest. The best way to hodl whatever you have is to just have discipline, that's it. There is no easy way around it. Also, people don't really want to be tied down to 5 years of investment in case they might really need it. If people can't hodl then they can't.

Crypto investment is not rushing to get back your capital or ROI a day after you invested rather it's a long time of waiting period especially when you bought them at a high price in the crypto market. if you find such kind of services, right now all you need to do is wait till the said services unlock your BTC. that's why we always obliged the person to invest what they don't really need from their money to avoid such kind of regret where it will be too late once their BTC is locked. But it should be a trustworthy service provider where you won't really doubt about getting back your BTC from them once the BTC price spikes at unexpected rates.

This already exists. My good buddy who runs the ColdKey company has created time locked smart contract wallet cards that lock up the funds until a specified date in the future. He did a test run that I helped him out with a year or two ago. They are actually really cool.

This sounds to me like one more scam token is being made on some centralized shitcoin network with sole purpose of stealing Bitcoins from original owners and creating false sense of security.
If you want to make it harder for yourself to spend Bitcoin just make some multisig setup and spread it in multiple locations that you can't access so easy.
You can also split your keys from that multisig setup with some of your family members or friends, and create special terms for signing transactions and spending funds.

It is complicated for ordinary person

It's common for the time-locked Bitcoin wallet and it seems the same on this wallet ( https://coinb.in ) which is also an open-source wallet but didn't use a smart contract. 

There are pros and cons to using this time locked wallet, imagine you can't access your own Bitcoin for 5 years long but what if you will miss out on the bull run trend and when the wallet is locked it's in a bear market.  Though it's safe from the hacker and even yourself from the urge of selling it, I think it feels comfortable if you hold your own private keys.

Anyway, good luck with your project, for those anyone who knows how to keep safe their keys and has a discipline and controls themselves and possibly of nullifying their own itchy fingers tempting to sell their coins, this project should be the right for them.

if you actually read the topic creator. he is proposing a system that locks coins up and then uses a different unit of measure on another network while that coin is locked..
.. hmm. sound familiar..

well thank you for saying that this other network both you and the topic creator mention has no purpose

lets translate it:

co-partners create smart contract for HODLing bitcoin for X time period. For users who send their BTC to the smart contract, some millisat would be given. millisats have their economics, the whole thing is 'autopilot routed"

he possibly wants to see if anyone thinks its a good idea
he possibly wants to see lots of people cry that locking funds up into co-partner locks defeats the point of self custody.
he possibly wants to see lots of people cry that locking funds up into co-partner locks to then play with other units of measure on another network has its own issues

Why making a simple action complicated? Why do we need to put our Bitcoin to a smart contract where in fact we can hold it ourselves?
People selling their Bitcoins for some reasons. Some are selling it because they want to buy stuff. Some just felt that it the perfect time for them to sell etc. For me as a Bitcoin holder, I don't think this coin is necessary or useful for me because I can hold my Bitcoin myself.

Holding Bitcoins is very easy. Its just the fact that their emotions are the problem thus, some are selling their holdings at a wrong time for them.

No.
I find this project more a way to help yourself than those with not enough willingness to actually HODL.
Also.. no matter how much one wants to hold for long, if big real-life problem strikes, money may be needed. And then... bad luck, mmhm?

As I've stated earlier, my buddy created Time Locked Cold Storage cards (bitcointalk user Yogg), which seems to be exactly the type of thing you're looking for.  No need to create an altcoin for this. I see these as a great way to force yourself to save bitcoin.  

https://i.ibb.co/g7ZXT7L/cro.png (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/vjXyCgN/1.jpg (https://ibb.co/pLhV6GH)
https://i.ibb.co/8xsCwGj/2.jpg (https://ibb.co/rp0jhqZ)
https://i.ibb.co/vD4t6MD/4.jpg (https://ibb.co/1bGSt4b)


"Coldkey Cryptobonds are the first time-locked, non custodial, physical Bitcoins.
You and only you chose when they become spendable.

It makes a perfect instrument to plan Bitcoin savings.
Or a gift of an amount of Bitcoin to someone, that cannot be spent right away".

More information about how Cryptobonds work :

Like every other Coldkey, Cryptobonds bear a private key under the hologram, it's associated BTC public address is present on the front.
We achieved to time-lock Bitcoins by creating a transaction using nLockTime, an obscure feature of Bitcoin.

The transaction code is the biggest QR code, on the front.
You will need to scan it and broadcast the code to the Bitcoin network when it has matured.

The Proof of Concept has been published on Bitcointalk : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5228739
A few test Cryptobonds were produced afterwards and sent to a handful of reputable Bitcointalk users for further testing of the concept.

Cryptobonds' locked transaction is specifically designed to be as leightweight as possible.
A single input and a single output, with a 5000 sats fee attached to the locked trasaction.
This is to make sure the transaction gets rapidly included in the blockchain when it became valid, many years from now".


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5316556.msg56324891#msg56324891

Waaat? Am I missing something? Or you are just contradicting yourself?

If this person diligently knows how to keep control of themselves in order to avoid the impulse to sell their bitcoin, as you have stated, I do not believe that such service is required.

---

Moreover, I believe the reason why such service doesn't exist is because it's "useless" and will just create more problems than solutions.

I mean there are a lot of ways people can do to stop the urge of selling their assets. It could be adding multiple layers of security that will require them a more cumbersome process which can result to laziness or something. A timelock features just like other members have said or by simply uninstalling any other crypto related applications.

People can't afford adding another baggage of anxiety in this decentralised space where trust is expensive  ::)

Why would you do that? The Bitcoin price volatility is there for everyone to make a profit (buy low /sell high) .....so if you "lock" it for 5 years... you miss out on all the opportunities to increase your coins.... just by selling when the price is high and then buying again when it is low.  ::)

Also... I definitely do not want to own any other token than BTC.... because most of them are crap.. sorry, I am just honest. In any way, good luck with your project, because there are a lot of people chasing the "Big Score" ....  ::)

Depending on individual circumstances, if you only hope to profit from bitcoin then it will be difficult to do Hodl for a very long time, as you will be haunted by various temptations and worries along the way.
other than choosing to buy low and sell when high just for a small profit it is much better and just to meet your needs than you choose another option to lock your holdings for a set time it will make you suffer, with the excuse of having no other income or income permanent.
In contrast to those who have a steady income or permanent job because they have a salary every month, and locking ownership for a long time will not be a problem because their needs have been met with a fixed salary. And they have arranged it well for both necessity and investment.
So I think it all depends on their situation and most of their holders or long term who already have steady income who will not worry about Volatility or anything, the goal is just big profit even if they have to wait very long time.

Good idea, although it's pretty much useless if all the smart contract will do is hodl your BTC, might as well just hodl it on your own, you can't even be sure if the value would be high or low in the next 5 years. Something like this doesn't exist because it has no use and it won't actually help the hodler.

But for ordinary Bob, using timelock Nlock is complicated. Also most of the people can not just HODL bitcoin, because we see it every time BTC go down, lots of paper hands just sell it and dump the price. But imagine smart contract, which is open source and every one can check it. No need to trust anyone, you just audit the contract. And if it works, than it works. Just couple clicks and you are done. Your BTC is safely HODLed for years. And you don’t need to put your all savings, just do some little. Coz every most profitable strategy in crypto is just HODL BTC for years. You mind will be free, coz you know at least you have saved some value in long term.

Holding bitcoin is not hard when you can have full control of your coin.

You can create a paper wallet using an airgapped device, or buy an hardware wallet for the holding, or if you have a device you are no more using, you can make the device to be airgapped, create a wallet on the airgapped device. Send bitcoin to an address(es) generated by the wallet you created through any of the three for holding and backup your seed phrase.

Bitcoin is bitcoin, but you project is just an altcoin project that would be pegged or backed by bitcoin, but that does not mean it is not an altcoin, it is actually an altcoin.

Not that it is only complicated, it is not even bitcoin.

Creating a smart contract would mean you would have to give up your freedom of selling anytime. See the things I love about cryptocurrencies is how we don't know what is going to happen and how we cannot predict anything here as well which usually mean that if the price goes to the highest possible point and you are not able to sell at the moment and buy again at a much cheaper one you would actually be in a bad position since HODL is good but holding should also be very intellectual. If you so see some instances where you have a choice to trade just once then you should do it and giving up your freedom for 5 years would definitely be uncalled for. But yes it would have worked in the past definitely but situations are not the same anymore.

you can't get far on one idea, you need a strong team, marketing, fees and much more. But the most important desire, if you combine it all together, then the most ambitious ideas seem achievable. As for me, I would refrain from transferring my bitcoins to this.

This is a much better option than what OP is proposing.
Trusting a third person and their altcoin just to be able to do what Satoshi wanted us to be able to do(be our own banks) is counterproductive and pointless.

There's literally no reason for us to look for a third party to help us hold. If you need help holding, get a safe with a time lock and set it so that if you ever want to withdraw your money, the safe will delay you by a day or 2 before it opens. Maybe if you sleep on your decision you'll come to a conclusion that you don't need the money right now.

It doesn't sound familiar to me. It may sound to you, though, who doesn't like any second layers and who can't comprehend that blockchain is inefficient.

The fact that you're comparing Lightning with an implementation of this meaningless concept is just underwhelming. It has already a solution on the first layer, no need to extend this further. Lightning is for micro-transacting, which can't be done efficiently otherwise.

But, keep trying. Everyone's ignoring you.

oh blackhat.. you are not reading are you.. ignorance is bliss with you and your cult

even the translation is too much for you. seems you have no clue and prefer ignorance.
i know you love your altnet but the funny part is that you are calling this topics idea useless, when infact this idea is exactly the proposition requirement to be able to use your altnet.

yep people need to lock funds into a smart contract long term and play with other units of measure on a different network.

sorry if your now realising it, but atleast try not to defend to the death your altnet while also calling the topic creators idea foolish. because they are one-in-the-same feature.. and so you are just contradicting yourself.

but i will atleast applaud you by now realising some of the issues with locking up funds in co-partnered smart contracts.. and forced to play on other networks. maybe there is a glimmer of hope for you yet..

atleast take this small bit of insight. many people including yourself and me, and pretty much all other people replying in this topic have all have said how the idea of locking up funds long term with a partner and then playing with other units of measure on other networks is a bad idea.

It looks like a nice idea, but there are problems with it because many people want to hold the bitcoin and not a token or anything else, in addition to that there are some people who might like to sell during this period if they see a good price hike and the smart contract will prevent them from that, in my opinion the best way It is the normal way because it is more like holding gold and people want to store gold and not something else.

Lol, after selling when the price would be Y million of dollars, you would be saying the same. "I wish I hadn't sold because it would have been Y billions of dollar". We don't need another useless project where your coins will be locked. If you are investing, then you should be able to do hold and do everything on your own instead of relying on something or something else. The project you are talking about has a lot of risks. Imagine people locking thousands of BTC and then the developers stealing them all.

Bitcoin is designed to be owned by us and make us our own bank without any third party interference. If you use the holding service, it is no different than you depositing your money in the bank. In addition to sending bitcoin to holding services will make it impossible for you to sell or use your bitcoin while your bitcoin deposit period has not ended, better hold your bitcoin and you can use them whenever you want.

in this case op as a bank that collects money from various investors. this will indeed be very risky, and it is true what you said if bitcoin was designed for us to have our own bank, so that freedom of transaction is the main goal, if your assets are held by other parties and cannot be transacted at any time of course this seems the same as staking, it's just that I see it's more risky. I'm afraid that marketing language only gives hope to anesthetize us and in the end we realize with disappointment

Interesting. How can you choose the block your coins are mined at?

So you can hold for 5 years if only you buy the token at the beginning? I mean if you buy it a year later it will be equal to buy BTC at the current rate

My answer to it is clear no because if you can't control your temptations to sell it means you don't believe in bitcoin so no fun of investing in it in the first phase.Second you can do is store your coins on cold storage and leave it there with seeds secured without checking the price and after 3-4 years you can sell it.But not creating smart contract is feasible for holding bitcoin.

Then why so many people use hot wallets and exchanges for holding their bitcoin? Only sophisticated holders use cold wallets and be their own bank. Most of the people just don’t care

Well, usually people that leave their coins on exchanges are small-middle size assets. Real whales usually take their coins out of exchanges and into their own security measures.

This idea doesn't look very innovative or original.
Your project looks like some "full reserve banking" stablecoin/token.I don't see any point of using a token,that is backed by BTC.
Who is going to have control over the BTC wallet,where all the Bitcoins are received?
Is it going to be a multi-sig wallet,so all the BTC will be released upon the agreement of all participants?
If you want to HODL Bitcoins,just HODL Bitcoins in your cold wallet.There's no point of creating a useless token around the idea of simply hoarding Bitcoins for the long term.

I like the idea or the concept to be honest. It works like a bank right? But, this once has a lock-in period only to force someone to hold for many more years. We know that hodling for a long time is one of the problems of the users because they lack of patience and they got easily tempted to sell when they see the market is doing good but I am only not sure if many people will trust such service.

Why will they entrust their coins to someone else especially on a new project that doesn't have enough reputation? why there is no service for hodling? I think that is because holding a coin is too simple, it does not need any advanced knowledge or complex tools but you just need a wallet.

While I appreciate a token created for this purpose, I think you are creating something that makes HODLing more complicated. If a person wants to HODL, then just let them HODL their bitcoins in their respective wallets. I do not see the need for any complicated matters. If they have the urge to sell their coins, then let them do so.

Remember that BTCs are still considered as money due to their significant value in the market. Assuming that a person encounters an emergency situation where they would need some cash, then let them use their BTCs. No need for any complicated tokens or whatsoever.

It is a good idea to create a smart contract that will hold for up to 5 years, maybe almost the same as staking, but I think this is very difficult to realize because investors will not want to wait too long, let alone send bitcoins to smart contracts that easily with a lot of money. the reason the smart contract was hacked so lost bitcoin.

Bitcoin has a locktime "functionality". Since other have already explained it, I won't; you can read pretty much all you need from these tutorials:
* Using Locktime for inheritance planning, backups or gifts (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5180850.0)
* [Tutorial] Making your crypto inheritible (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5285003.0)

its never too late in starting all over again and now is the best time in other for you not to still place a reoccurence of some x years experience into the future y about to be unveil. I do see holding of bitcoin as a necessity which could have been the first intention why everyone could wanted to hodl the coin, but with time things change and we can't not bear it anymore but rather sell it off or exchange it, holding in particular is an asset on it own with time not to talk on ROI that is added, I think this time you're making it quite alright.

Previously I wanted to ask, where or to whom if someone wants to join the project, you should include a link or address that can be accessed and visited in your project. What about the benefit system, with profit sharing or not, it must also be clear, there are many factors that must be considered before you publish the project you are working on.

I don't think there's a need for yet another token, just because some people regret selling their BTC. There are simpler solutions. One is mentioned by BlackHatCoiner (also, there's Locktime which was also mentioned in the thread). Another would be to imagine the price one definitely thinks is enough and set a sell order on a reputable exchange like Binance with that price (if you trust an exchange with your money, which isn't normally a good idea). You can also just hide the seed somewhere, and pledge to yourself that you won't sell unless the price reaches a certain point or unless a certain time period passes. And if you don't trust yourself with your own financial management, maybe investing isn't for you.

It is better that you are not interested in the program or project. It is better to keep your bitcoins in your wallet because it is at risk of getting scammed. Even if such a project exists, it is better not to send in large quantities, especially if we do not know the project's reputation. It is our money, and we have to really take care of it and don't make the wrong choice.

Finally one person that got what I meant. Trust is not an issue, because it is smart contract, no one is owning it and at the same time anyone can check it. Just check the code, audit the smart contract. It is open source.

Where did you get that information? Sophisticated holders? What is that?

People who keep their coins on the exchange are either traders or irresponsible. Anyway, they are not the majority. Those who keep their coins for long-term keep them in cold storage or in a hot wallet if it is not a large sum. I see no problem with that. In any case, it is better than trusting a third party or some smart contract that may or may not be safe in the long run.

People who care about their coins know how to protect them, those who don't care won't use your smart contract anyway.

Is it really that much of a big deal? I mean do you really have no self control over when you will be selling and when you will be holding? I have been holding for long enough to say that I have been quite good at it. I can't say that I have never sold, and do I regret it?

Of course I do, I could have been a millionaire if I didn't, but at the same time I was basically forced to sell as well, if I could go back to the same situation, I would still sell, maybe try to find another way if I could, because I saw bitcoin as the quickest method at the time and didn't look for other ways, but even if I go back now and look for other ideas, I can't, I am thinking now and I was basically forced to.

In the same way some just can't get away from gambling, some just can't HODL.
Even more, especially when the price is going down, many are getting scared and sell.

So use cases for this do exist, even though, as I already said, it can be risky for when one really-really needs that money.
Still, as long as Bitcoin itself has tools for this, using something external makes not much sense.

Sometimes over-holding can be counterproductive. Don’t be too greedy and take calculative decisions.

We hold based on trust and here we can't mention over holding as greed. If a poll is being created for users who missed the bull market of 2017-18, majority have missed and only a few have made fortune. That is not out of greed, but the growth looked to be more progressive. Fortunately most users missed as the price fell all of the sudden. During the last year ath majority of the users profited. This happened out of the learning from the previous experience. So, we hold with some deadline and even before if target is being reached we sell, if not we wait for an opportunity.

I never intend to be a part of a project that support holding when people have the safest way of holding access.

Shouldn't those people need to learn a way to hold, instead of trying to wait to keep them from having that option? I mean there could be some serious reasons why they should sell. Like let's say there is a health issue, you have to be in hospital and pay a good sum of money to survive, shouldn't it be better if you could reach your money that way? Or there is a debt that you can't pay, I should know because I am in one right now lol) and then you will need to cash out.

Like for example, I have some saved aside, but by the looks of it I will be forced to sell my coins (some of them not all) just to pay my debt. Learning how to hold should be more important than preventing from cashing out.

this decision entirely depends on the holder himself. as we have different financial situations in life, you can't expect everyone to hodl long term. some will sell at the time of their needs or if they feel, they already get their target profits. so creating another project like the OP presented is just a useless attempt for me. it will just turn to another crappy project without any value. better deal your portfolio according to your capability.

What's the need for such a service when we've got non custodial wallets and different hardware wallets that give the access to have our holdings in a secure way. When we let our cryptocurrency kept hold somewhere else, then we're once again depending over another service same as that we depend upon banks for our financial management. Already we've got a big number of projects that are out of cloned features. Once again with the name of bitcoin there is nothing needed as this. Eventually they'll turn this to be a MLM requesting people to share and make more people to hold over the network to receive more tokens.

Maybe because they want to feel more profit so they are over holding.
But when the market situation is like today, do they still get their profits even though they make calculative decisions.

not so friends, people who hold bitcoin for a long time they have a target and they believe bitcoin in the future is very feasible to be used as an asset, not a problem of high prices maybe in the future the price of bitcoin will be very expensive from now on.

Forget about creating another token for every single thing that you would want to happen with your Bitcoin. Forget about your HodlCoin as well. There's already a number of HODL tokens in the vast world of shitcoins. There's already HodlCoin, HODL Token, and many more HODLs. Your idea is not something new.

Let people get more familiar with Bitcoin instead and be convinced that it's for keeps. There are abundant proofs that HODLers are rewarded over time. And then there's the arithmetic of only 21 million Bitcoin ever and more than 7 billion people and counting. There's not enough Bitcoin for everybody.