Bitcoin Forum

In the second chapter of the book  "Outliers: The Story of Success" (https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnxhaHNicml0bmljcmVhbWVyfGd4OjJhY2JkNTEwMjkwM2RjMzM) Malcolm Gladwell wrote about the “10 000-Hour Rule”.



According to Gladwell, the two(2) factors that contribute to achieving mastery or expertise in any field  are:

1) The number of hours of practice

Gladwell posits that the magic number for true expertise is ten thousand hours of focused and deliberate practice.

For example, he told the story of  Bill Joy, one of the most influential figures in modern computing, and Bill Gates, the founder of Microsoft and one of the richest men in the world. They both achieved expertise in their fields by spending an enormous amount of time focused on programming. As an undergraduate student at the University of Michigan, Bill Joy was programming around eight or ten hours a day. And when he enrolled as a graduate student at the University of California at Berkeley, he was doing it day and night. Bill Gates spent around twenty or thirty hours every week programming as a high school student.

While I do not entirely agree with the 10,000-hour rule, I firmly believe that attaining mastery or expertise in any field is directly proportional to the number of hours spent deliberately focused on learning a particular skill.


2) The series of opportunities available for practice
While there is a positive correlation between the number of focused and deliberate practice in attaining expertise, there is the role that the opportunity available to practice plays in making it a reality.

Back to our example. Let's look at the series of opportunities Bill Joy and Bill Gates got to practice:-

a) Bill Joy

b) Bill Gates

These series of opportunities to hone their skills helped Bill Joy and Bill Gates become experts in their fields.

The principle behind the 10,000-hour rule also applies to becoming an expert in bitcoin and cryptocurrency. In this Bitcointalk forum, I have great admiration for members with world-class mastery and expertise in bitcoin and cryptocurrency. My subjective measurement of  bitcoin and cryptocurrency expertise in this forum are:

1) Legendary and Hero members (No offense to other members).

2) Members with a high merit count but who are yet to rank up because they lack inactivity.

My sincere desire is to achieve this level of expertise in bitcoin and cryptocurrency. Therefore, I want to ask two(2) questions to these groups of people:

1) How many hours did you deliberately spend learning about bitcoin and cryptocurrency?

2) What series of opportunities to practice were available to you that helped you hone your skills?

I don't see the parallelism you raise, because you can be a legendary member of this forum with many earned merits and have hardly any technical knowledge.

I don't know how you apply the practice to bitcoin or to being on this forum. If you are talking about spending 10,000 hours reading technical bitcoin books, yes, you are going to get a lot of knowledge, but not simply by being on this forum.

Regarding the question though,

1. I don't understand what you mean by practicing bitcoin, nevertheless as per my experience when I started my journey, I spend hours learning bitcoin wallets. Because for me this is important as obviously this is where you stash your bitcoin. So I read about different kind of wallets etc. But I'm not sure how many hours I logged in because bitcoin investment is a journey.

2. Series of opportunities? again, this is all based on my experience. Learning to play with my wallet, and understanding the tx fees, custodial vs non-custodial. So I hone my skills as I practice and as I go thru the routines.

I would disagree with your analysis as someone who meets your criterea. I definitely did not need to put 10,000 hours into learning Bitcoin, much less than that actually (maybe 1000-2000 hours). Also don't forget that cryptocurrency knowledge is decoupled from programming so the latter is not required to understand the former. Although a great many crypto experts are also programmers.

There are course in Bitcoin. Antonopolos has an ebook Mastering Bitcoin, you wouldn't need 10K hours for that. But Programming will definitely require a ton of practise for someone to become  an expert.

If you mean master in trading Bitcoin,that 10K hour may apply but you must be a slow learner to  spend that much time and money before seeing the pattern in Bitcoin chart.

What about Legendary and Hero Members before merit system was begin? moreover they never earn any single merit even though they're active day poster, this because they're shitposting in altcoins discussions. Judging the higher ranks = higher knowledge about Bitcoin is completely wrong.

Do you think someone give merit because of Bitcoin related post only? No, it's not completely accurate.

Now, I only logged for 6 days in this forum or 144 hours, though I'm not really have high knowledge about technical Bitcoin.

Trial and error, practice is the most good learning way.

---

At least I know the 10,000 hour rule isn't correct analysis since the above legendary user can disagree with your opinion.

1. Pretty much almost every single day for almost 6 years. Like probably 330 out of 365 days of the year.

2. Proper risk management, and A LOT of reading, among other 'typical' things like patience and stuff.

P.S. Bitcoin is an asset; not necessarily a skill. The 10k hour rule would probably apply with trading/investing in general, rather than to bitcoin specifically.

I'm not entirely sure that you could even employ the 10,000 rule for trading as well. There will always be a bunch of ameteurs who spend entire weeks and months day trading and reading signals but you can't say at all that they've mastered tradng. In my opinion, you'd need to read books, take courses and maybe get an internship at a hedge fund management corp. to get that mastery, not a bunch of hours in "practical experience" in trading crypto without knowledge of it.

It is in book and a good principle, good advice but in the end of the day, on the market, in front of computer or smartphone, people do opposite to what they was taught.

Crypto market has very little regulation now so there is more manipulation in this market by market makers than other market. It runs 24 / 7 and emotion of traders change quickly. Take $LUNA as an example, some were bankrupted yesterday and I hope that they are fine. However, there are people get rich from it quickly too.

After 24 hours, $LUNA rises 100 times. Today price is impossible yesterday in thinking of people bought it.

About the 10,000-rule in crypto, I don't think it is enough, in this market you might need more than that. Double of 10,000 hours or more. In addition there are people fail to learn from mistake even they spend 50,000 hour or whatever higher time.

True — but I guess it applies to almost anything as well, whereas you barely progress and improve if you're practicing the wrong way.

I guess doing the signals thing can somewhat be a part of the progress though, as sometimes making big mistakes such as this and losing money is a part of learning.

I think you are simplifying things too much. The situation is more complex than that.

To begin with, not all members of the Hero and Legendary ranks are automatically experts in Bitcoin matters. On the other hand, there are many experts who do not spend much time on the forum, so their rank (and even merits) is not a true indicator of their knowledge and expertise.

At the same time, you don't have to be a pro-Bitcoiner to be competent. People can be experts in different fields with respect to computers or anything else, and not be experts in Bitcoin.

I would say that the takeaway here is the kind of focus one has to throw on something to be considered as an expert on it...and in today's many tools there are now many ways one can accelerate learnings so there is no need to undergo the 10K hours rule but if one has the time and energy then he is very much free to do so. Still, one has to be aware of the changing time so there is a big chance that what we learn today may not be exactly the same weeks from now.

This is kind of wrong imo, I mean at the early stage of things in general at least. Take for example drawing, there's the tip that most artists say that you just "need" to draw, but really, that "need" has a lot of underlying stuff that you'd need to do before even knowing what to do. You don't just draw anything, you draw things that can help you learn how to draw. Same with learning other stuff, you just don't put in thousands of hours into something and expect to be good at it, nor does having many hours under your belt make you better than others with less (it's kind of subjective imo).

If this were the case, really, players of various online games would have all gone pro.

Not a fan of these made up rules, anyone who does anything with his hands or brains for a living knows practice improves your art, and there's no limit to how long you practise for, and you put it off for a while and you lose some of your mastery, it's maintenance.

Now exactly how this applies to buying Bitcoin, I'm not sure. I can't really see how to improve or degrade my DCA if I just keep at it. I actually found that the more I tried to make it sophisticated, the less value or efficiency I got out of it. The simpler I kept it (rigid periodic blind buys) he more value and more efficient it became, the more time I got to myself mastering my actual art.

Thank you @mk4 this is what I needed. Learning Bitcoin to me means learning about both the technical and non-technical aspects. Thank you once again.


This is my thought exactly. The 10,000-hour rule has been critique by several authors and scientists has debunked the theory. The main idea here is competence is proportional to time spent on focused practice. The second point is that, the streams of opportunities the individual has to practice is a critical factor that aids competence.

     While I agree that rank and merits may help identify the ones that have more knowledge on bitcoin or on all crypto, this doesn't mean that it is a 100% accurate way to differentiate people. I have seen people in this forum that know a lot about bitcoin but are not of those ranks, some are even developers. I guess it depends on which things a person is interested about and what are his long term goals in this industry.

- I can't really give the exact numbers but as long as I can remember I read about anything related to crypto as long as there is reception. Even on vacations. Which I started doing since late 2016. I do not focus on bitcoin alone though.
- Devices and internet. I guess being in a circle that also is fond of this industry also helped.

Merits and ranks may sometimes be an indication that a user is knowledgeable in crypto, but remember not all merits were earned through quality posting some were airdropped merits. You would be shocked to find before the merits, there were legendary accounts who were able to get the rank by simply posting regularly. A newbie or member account can be owned by someone with vast knowledge of bitcoin. A perfect example is n0nce (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=3373858)

I don’t agree with everything that you said here. You spend 10,000 hours in programming, do you think you will end up like Bill Gates? I don’t think so. You spend 10,000 hours on painting, do you think you will end up like Michelangelo, Van Gogh, or Picasso? I doubt it. You spend 10,000 hours studying music, do you think you will end up like Beethoven or Mozart? You won’t. If I spend 10,000 hours on Bitcoin, I wouldn’t become like Satoshi. I probably won’t even come close to the likes of o_e_l_e_o or pooya87. My point is that it’s not just about the quantity of time. It takes more than that. People shouldn’t waste 10,000 hours of their lives trying to become the next Zuckerberg or Musk or Bezos or Jobs. They do what they love, and that’s enough.

Bill Gates is pretty good though. I think skill grasping strength is also something which needs to be taken into consideration. Definitely the more you learn something the stronger you get at it. However, 10k hours or 1k hours it’s really thing of how everyone grasp it. Someone might do it quick someone might take ages. Also bitcoin is something which is on going stuff. You have to keep learning it. If it’s about blockchain then that’s entirely different subject area.

Except that you would, if you really wanted to. With 10,000 dozens of thousands of hours, if you decided to figure out what's going on behind all that, you would. You would have the time to understand bitcoin, you'd have the time to study how cryptography works, you'd have the time to comprehend economic terms you were unaware of, you'd have the time to ask questions, things you don't understand etc.

This is what I did. I had the time. I had the passion. I had the willingness. My point is: The world is made by people who're not smarter than you are. You just need to put in the effort.

I wouldn't view Bitcoin in general as a field that can and should be mastered. This is the case for Bitcoin development, but not the case for using Bitcoin. You don't need to know any C++ and cutting-edge algorithms to send transactions and avoid getting hacked or losing your wallet. And the ability to understand Bitcoin source code or Lightning Network developments won't help you with predicting the price.

Having high rank and high merit count is not a sign of a Bitcoin expert. The real Bitcoin experts are the people from Bitcoin dev mailing list, github, IRC channel, stackexchange.

2 hours a day for 2 years.. well that puts you at ~ 1.5k hours.
so not even 15% there

just a shame you wasted each of them 2 hours per day for 2 years into altnets.. as you have become very passionate about altnets .. but yet lack over 85% of understanding your favoured altnet while completely missing the point entirely about what bitcoin is

so the more important thing is if you want to learn a particular thing. learn that particular thing. dont confuse yourself with wasting time learning something else, or spending the time just hanging with a group of people pretending you are all involved in something, while just socialising in that time.. to then pretend its the thing you first wanted to learn.

its not about putting the time in. its about actually.. learning using the time

actually take the time to learn the stuff

as for the topic title..
10,000 hours.
most people dont actually ever spend 10 hours a day, 7 days a week for 3 years constant learning.
most dont even spend 8 hours a day, for 5 days a week for 5 years learning constantly

id say its not about quantity of time thats important. its quality of the time used thats important

I believe you, of course, although as far as my personal disposition is concerned, I don't think mere want is enough. I think this is true to many. Who wouldn't want to be like Satoshi or Hal or Adam or even theymos? But not everyone could actually rise to be like them despite him/her wanting it. It might actually take a genius to come up with Bitcoin, however Satoshi himself/herself/themselves humbly diminish it as something anybody could actually discover given all the available resources.

Of course, 10,000 hours or roughly 417 days or a little more than a year need to be accompanied with very strong passion plus a strong inclination plus enough exposure and a little more than moderate brilliance and probably other ingredients. Not everybody who admires and even wants to become Hal Finney would be excited when cryptography or programming is discussed. And not all of those who are excited and passionate would have the patience and discipline to actually become like him.

I want to start by saying that if you google "is the 10000 hour rule true", you'll immediately get articles that say it's a myth, that is was debunked and stuff like that. There have been many meta studies done that demonstrate that while practice does matter, there still is a significant performance variation, and 10000 hour don't automatically make you a pro.
Since the rule itself was debunked, I think there's no need to explain why it doesn't apply to Bitcoin. But I'd say that even if the rule were true, it would only apply to strictly skill-based venues (the research was originally about musicians). Learning about Bitcoin doesn't sound like a skill-based thing to me.

um.. only if you never sleep, stop to eat, drink, use the toilet, or have a family.
hint: no one studies constantly for a whole 24 hours of a day..

anyone pretending they have accomplished mastering anything in under 2 years while not actually rigorously studying none stop, is just fooling themselves

the thing i hate about certain people in this forum, is they form small ignorant social groups and just repeat silly utopian dreams like a script while pretending they know whats best.

you know the type, the ones that think their network is better but all you can read is the same exact words their buddies have said exactly the same before then. as if they are reading from a glossy pamphlet or an advert they seen. no independent thought, no paraphrasing, no beyond the box thinking. just sheep following something they read in some social media platform.

this is not mastering anything.

I have read that rule earlier also and while it's good to read at the same time it's quite hard to follow.
10,000 hours are a lot actually. Considering we sleep 8 hours a day and lets leave 2 hours for food and other things.
We get around 14 hours a day and if we consume all of it, which is still a big thing since we are not so productive throughout the day, it takes 715 days.
Now thats around 2 years which is why I think it's a huge time to follow a specific schedule.

I think the 21 days rule is better than this  ;D

Thats pretty straight. Obviously its nothing to study about bitcoin if you are going to use it as is. I mean who studies dollars and euro's? I literally never did that, just took the salary, used it as is, traded as is. But what to study in that? Bitcoin is not even physical here, so I am not sure what is outlook there.

I agree with @hatshepsut93 that if we really want to learn something, then its the background technology, the platform on which Mr. Satoshi developed it.

I have been part of this forum for more than 8 years.... (lurked a while before that, because I did not want to make mistakes) ....and I have spend more than 70 000 hours thinking and sleeping Bitcoin and Crypto currencies. (Well ...some of that was sleeping)  ;D ;D ;D

All of that time, has not made me a "Master of Crypto currencies" but it has earned me a bunch of money and a lot of fun and adventure. They say, it is more the journey ...than achieving the end result. ===> Posts:    11536  = A ton of research and acquiring a lot of new knowledge.  ;)

I had never thought objectively and quantitatively about the time I spent on Bitcoin/crypto. But I did the math here out of curiosity, to see if I could already be elected on this criterion.

Considering that I've known crypto for 6 years and since I've known it, every day I've dedicated time to studying, writing and talking about bitcoin and crypto (with increasing time dedicated to this), imagine I've spent the last 6 years at least 5 hours on average for crypto which gives 10,950 dedicated hours.

too much time  :o :o :o :o :o :o :o

But, particularly, I think that even more important than the time spent is the distance between the learning time. I think it's important to live through different phases and get in touch with a multiple perspective.

Spending 10,000 hours to study will really but in the world, we live in and the things happening around the world I think will be hard to achieve the 10,000 hrs for people who are already a parent.
This is something I have been planning on several occasions but it is hard to achieve when the kids are around.
Do you ever for once spend 5hours a day studying Bitcoin?