Bitcoin Forum

Here's what the President of El Salvador recently said:


In follow up tweets, he also named some of the actual institutions:


It won't be a surprise if one or two of the countries of this list end up having Bitcoin as a legal tender in the near future.

This is a very interesting development...if the President of El Salvador Nayib Bukele can be able to pool many countries to come to his country specifically to discuss on Bitcoin and its future then certainly this is something that we should be looking on as something so positive in the face of the big dip and the bearish mood of the crypto market right now. I am hoping that he can institutionalize the same event and make it an annual one...making his country one of the most important locations for Bitcoin. I am even joking to my friends that in Bukele we have the Bitcoin President.

The new Davos meetings /s
Reading those names, man, crème de la crème, I always say, better than nothing but seriously sometimes, it's a close call with this nothing.
Just some trivia, only three of those have a GDP per capita rank lower than 100, with Maldives managing to be the leading one with a rank of 65 in the world and with only 6 of them not in the UN food assistance program.

Here are the countries with more than 1% IMF member quotas: https://www.imf.org/en/About/executive-board/members-quotas

United States: 17.43%
Japan: 6.47%
China: 6.40%
Germany: 5.59%
United Kingdom: 4.23%
France: 4.23%
Italy: 3.16%
India: 2.75%
Russian Federation: 2.71%
Brazil: 2.32%
Canada: 2.31%
Saudi Arabia: 2.10%
Spain: 2.00%
Mexico: 1.87%
Netherlands: 1.83%
Korea: 1.80%
Australia: 1.38%
Belgium: 1.35%
Switzerland: 1.21%

In total these 19 countries control 71.13% of the voting power and access to the newly generated SDRs (https://www.imf.org/en/About/Factsheets/Sheets/2016/08/01/14/51/Special-Drawing-Right-SDR) by the IMF.

https://i.imgur.com/ihIHNjL.png

That huge increase in 2021 is explained because of this:


There's no chance for the smaller countries to advance economically with the current fiat system because they have to pay the IMF loans with interest instead. Those are the ones that are probably going to be most interested in looking at Bitcoin. You can see how there's no overlap between these 2 lists.

I don't know if you were expecting the 44 richest countries in the world to meet to consider making BTC legal tender in their countries. It is obvious that those most interested are those who potentially have the most to gain in exchange for losing control with a decentralized currency.

The list you gave me is representative of nominal GDP per country, I was talking about GDP per capita.
For example, India has a 2.75%, Denmark 0.71% who cares about that, Denmark has a GDP per capita of 68k, India of 2,515. Nigeria has more voting rights than Portugal, I don't see that having an effect.


Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania have the same voting power as Gabon and they did pretty well without the FMI.
Maybe the problem is somewhere else?


Please explain to me how is Bitcoin going to save Angola and what radical economical change it will bring.
Give me a few examples of this "most to gain" thing.

I'm guessing what P2PECS meant was something about these smaller countries having far less to lose, compared to let's say powerhouse countries. 3rd world countries would probably need to put more things at risk in the hopes of them being bigger in the future if successful. If.

All those are poor nations from Africa, Central, and South America. With or without Bitcoin, that won't change. The effects would be similar to when the Central African Republic adopted Bitcoin. It didn't do anything good. It is just a different payment method that people without electricity, internet, computers, and phones should now be using somehow. Nothing good can come out of forcing people to use Bitcoin. That transition should come natural and that's the only healthy way.

If I were to be asked if this latest development is bullish or not, I can't say about it yet since they are only discussing about "Bitcoin" but never stated if it's going to be positive or not about it. But of course regardless of the outcome, Bitcoin will be "well-advertised and promoted" under any circumstances. Let's just see what happens after the meeting was finished whether if the price goes up, down or just simply treading water.

Great strawman. Neither have I said that it will "save" anything, nor have I spoken of radical economic change. And no, I don't feel like having a debate with you that doesn't look like it would be a calm one.


Yes

I honestly didn't even know there was a country called Eswatini, but while Bitcoin can't significantly affect the economies of these countries, it's positive that they're rallying around the idea no matter how insignificant it may seem to some. Big and powerful countries meet regularly to discuss how to improve the situation in their countries, while small and poor countries can only fall into debt bondage to the IMF and the World Bank.

Although Bitcoin is emphasized here as the main topic of the meeting, there are still many more topics to be discussed, and in any case it is good for people to talk, I do not see anything wrong with that. In addition, El Salvador, despite all the pessimists who insist that the Bitcoin project that failed in that country is still a pioneer who can help others with his experience.

This good news really. I have read multiple articles that making Bitcoin a legal tender in El Salvador, wasn't as expected or what the people wanted and wasn't utilized much. Maybe if they were to discuss this in the ways that would be in a fruitful discussion, why not? Maybe when all the countries represented there provide a great solution to what El Salvador have started and provide possible useful applications to Bitcoin use in their respective countries.

This is exciting to hear, maybe more and more people would be able to buy and get more of it continuously. 

The agenda of the meeting is not centered around Bitcoin; Bitcoin appears to be an offshoot of financial inclusion and digital economy, which is a topic for many of the countries in the list posted by Bukele.

Access to financial services available globally is an important factor which supports economic growth of SMEs; Emerging fintech and digital enterprises and bridging the gap between countries and Bitcoin tends to play a part in this as it is neutral to a Nations economy or GDP growth, and creates a platform where they can transact directly.

Lol, do you even know what a strawman argument is?
I asked you one simple question, you made a statement, you said those countries have "most to gain" from this movie, and of course out of curiosity I asked you what they have to gain? Since when is a question a strawmen argument?


Lame attempt to weasel your way out of this but I wasn't looking for a debate either, I was just asking a simple question, debates are made with people who can actually say something meaningful about something or post real data, not just two lines of this will be great cause decentralization.


People are tending to forget that bitcoin's design is great for personal finances, the whole be your bank to the third party and other advantages are simply of no interest for a nation. What would all these poor counties have to gain from adopting, nothing on macro-level other than after a few years begging richer countries to buy their bitcoins at higher prices t make a profit. I find it amusing how the same enthusiasm happened when Salvador adopted it, now that we talk about Salvador facing a default later this year everyone says that Bitcoin or not Bitocin the country was anyhow doomed, then what will change with even poorer countries who's citizen can't afford even a 5sat/b transaction a day?

This is true, but what if anyone of the countries listed eventually got to adopt bitcoin as a legal tender this should at least make some difference in their economy by reducing poverty rate and unemployment, i think bitcoin adoption should still make some meaningful impact even on the developing countries.


I think what needed to be realised here is the need to have a backup plan for the adoption, Nayib did not just assume adopting bitcoin without working out some strategic areas of the economy out, this is not what should be done to please the world and make a record on the list of countries that have adopted bitcoin as a legal tender, but their must be plans in place to aid the adoption, Bukele make chivo wallet available for the citizens with a drop of about $30 worth of btc and likes, what has Central African Republic did or put in place to back their adoption by its citizens.

I would rather they discuss the underlying economic issues that the country has than bitcoin. BTC adoption means very little if the country does not address its economic and social issues, and it seems like El Salvador is ignoring all of that and jumping to a ''quick fix''. I am glad people whose local currency is worth less than a carrot, but that doesn't solve the issues, it only masks them.

For hearing this we can see that there are so many countries are very much interested with bitcoin and blockchain, so hopefully there discussion toward this will get positive result because if majority of the country will announce that they will also make bitcoin as their legal tender for sure we cannot see a huge manipulation on it and might we can see bitcoin grow more because of the adoption it gets.

No, not really. Bitcoins don't grow on trees and they wont simply become available to the population the day after they adopt it as legal tender. Sure, you can make an airdrop similarly to what was done in El Salvador. But Bitcoin won't land you a job at that auto dealership across the road if there are no jobs available, or no auto dealership at all due to the overall state of the country.

One might argue that Bitcoin offers opportunities of remote work. Sure, that's true, but so does PayPal, WU, Skrill, freelancing sites, and many other ways to get paid in fiat. There is potential for Bitcoin in areas where people are unbanked, but not if they sleep in the dirt, use a rock for a pillow, and don't even have drinking water. Those poor souls have more important things to care about than a decentralized economy.

I think this is a very interesting story, but let us not expect too much about the outcome of the said meet-up of 44 countries, because I'm sure it is not all about Bitcoin. But maybe one of the topics that they want to be discussed is the potential of cryptocurrencies including the digital economy which I think is very useful for developing countries. I have noticed also that most countries that have joined in the said meet-up are from Africa and Latin America, is it mean that Africa and Latin America were already embracing the idea?

Yes, I saw this news all over Twitter and coinmarketcap yesterday, some community members on telegram are even going crazy over this and I think this is probably one of the reasons why BTCitcoin rose over $30,000 usd yesterday or so.
Personally, anything that brings more recognition to bitcoin and bring more acceptance to it is definitely a welcome development, but then also like the saying goes, "to whom much is given, much is expected", this recognition will sure bring more usage as well as drive the price of bitcoin higher, but on the other hand, we should expect more regulations which will likely take away the privacy we have enjoyed all this years.
But then, who cares?, we sacrifice something to get something.

This is something positive about the widening of the cryptomarket. However I'm little skeptic on this move, because of the countries that are being invited and mentioned as flying to El Salvador. Among the list is Nepal which is against cryptocurrency and people from Nepal reach India to make use of it. Bangladesh another Asian country which used to arrest people holding cryptocurrency. India haven't come to any conclusion, but taxed heavily on the cryptocurrency. So, more similar countries will be there on the list. If something happens positive, it'll be really good for the future growth.

At least we can view this as some good news which would make majority of newbies feel super bullish since El Salvador is mentioned along with other countries and their banks. Well, better than nothing I guess since if the discussion really does work out in favor of this industry then it'll bring good publicity. If it doesn't though, the very first ones to fud maybe the newbies or the click baiting experts. Regardless, the market does need positive vibes after the sharp drops a couple of days ago to somehow alleviate the fear and disappointments of the majority. Hope more positive news comes! xD

Hell yeah, now the game is warming up. Interestingly its not Europe or US who leads the wagon I see most of them are the small nations, who are too tired of being restricted by their dollar reserves. Maybe to them bitcoin seems a better alternative
I don't know what others are seeing. I see we are moving towards true economic liberalization. Its the end of economic colonialism 

LMAO, yes and I also know what a rhetorical question is. To misrepresent by asking such a question you'd better make the statement directly, as you seem to be afraid to state it.


No you didn't. You have changed and exaggerated what I said as I explained in the previous post. I'm fine with you changing what I say and saying what you want about it but then don't address me as if you want to refute me.


You wanted a debate, didn't you? Then we'll have a debate.

What do you think? That because I'm smaller than you I'm going to shut up? A debate is not about what you say, a debate is about contributing relevant ideas and exchanging opinions even if you don't agree with them but if you base it on strawman, rhetorical questions and basically playing the pimp then there is no debate, what you are basically doing is barking.

A country like the US, which has a currency that is the reserve currency of the world, has much more to lose than to gain if it considers BTC as a legal currency because it loses the power of currency control, but poor countries, like those mentioned above, have little to lose because their currency is worthless and if they adopt BTC they can attract investments, for example and, as in the case of El Salvador, save money in remittance commissions.

In the case of El Salvador, it did not even have its own currency and used the dollar, as happens in many other countries, which, in some cases, keep their currency but nobody wants it and the dollar is used a lot instead. Well, to use the dollar, of which you do not have the power (as the US does), it is better to bet on BTC, even if it is a risk, as mk4 said.

Is that clear to you? Because you have been on the forum for a long time, I am not going to let you bully me.

Exactly, that is why I told you is not a debate, you made a statement and when asked about that you started crying and accusing others of not having arguments. Accusing others of barking when you're out of ideas isn't a debate either.


So the multiple gains you claim are remittance fees, and nothing else, or nothing that you're able to come up with, and this actually has nothing to do with their own currency, remittance fees are there even if you send money from Japan to the US, and I doubt you can consider Japan a poor country. Btw, you know that a transfer from the US to a bank account in Salvador cost 4$ for 2k? So the amount of savings is negligible at best.
And since I mentioned Angola and you mentioned remittance, seems like remittances in Angola ake exactly 0.02% of the GDP (https://countryeconomy.com/demography/migration/remittance/angola).
So how about you try another one?


Oh, I never knew asking people questions about the things they post with their own hands is considering bullying nowadays.
Just grow up, if one question hurt your feeling and made you cry you're going to be in a lot of pain once you reach double digits age.

When El Salvador came up with the Bitcoin city project, I told some folks that this bitcoin city project is a misplaced priority. I indicated that except the government of that country has concrete plans and proven pilot study to prove that the project would bring some economic gains to the country, them it is a waste of funds. Like many people have indicted, Bitcoin is not a magical economic tool that brings immediate national economic prosperity when adopted. El Salvador is plagued with gang related crimes, poverty, infrastructural deficit and other economic challenges that should be addressed before its Bitcoin policies would start yielding fruits. Nobody would visit a nation that is unsecured that means the Bitcoin city might not attract tourists. If these countries see Bitcoin as the only solution to their economic woes then they are misconceiving the operations of Bitcoin. There are basic economic foundational policies and programmes that would aid Bitcoin adoption to make the needed impact.   

But basically this is a good news to the Bitcoin community. I am sure they are there to brainstorm and come-out with other economic strategies or policies that would improve their economies. Also this meeting would increase the publicity and awareness of Bitcoin. It is also important to state that El Salvador needs more time to start reaping from its Bitcoin adoption policy hence it might be partially wrong to say that the country has failed.       

Doesn't any of these countries keep track of the fact that El Salvador's reserves have drastically decreased?

Right now I do not think that it would be a good idea to wait for the inclusion of Bitcoins in the economy of other countries because the volatility right now is not really good for the economic situation with the war+pandemic so I do think that what might happen is they might have to delay it for the future reference and El Salvador is not doing so good therefore when they are facing the situation where other banks are excluding them and not giving them financial aid, so I do not think that in this meeting it would be much acceptance but then again it's good to know that other countries are so interested in Bitcoins.

I believe you must have heard this name: swaziland, they just thought that this name belonged to the settler so they decided to change the name to eswatine, something ridiculously worse than this country and my country's neighbor and you can even drive from my country for this country, i doubt that a country like this, and a country like angola and other african countries that are on this list will legalize bitcoin, this would be something the end of the world, at least for now these african countries will not legalize bitcoin

Must be talking about politics.

When a  country's dollar reserve are taken by force, other central banks are going to be thinking it could also happen to their reserves. 44 Banks from all over the world gather around, they must be doing something excluding others. Maybe they are arranging a network like an alternative to SWIFT which they could also escape sanctions.

That's a nice deduction from this upcoming event.  ;D
But of course, we really don't know their true motive why they unite to have this kind of event.
But if it is for the sake of crypto market in their respective countries, why not?
This development is very welcome to happen. Maybe, they are seeing that no matter what, crypto market will continue to proliferate.


We can't disregard their possible impact to the crypto community even if we say most of them are in the third world category.
Who knows, they will be the countries which will drive crypto adoption to their constituents?
If nothing else, they can encourage some of their people to go into crypto if their Central Bank is positive towards crypto.

There is a misconception going around that by simply having access to Bitcoin
guarantees you a way out of poverty. If you have nothing to start with and no
prospects to grow your wealth well Bitcoin isnt going to solve it. If by some chance
you came into some Bitcoin you would probably have to sell it in order to survive.

As Lucius posted above its interesting that all these countries and central banks
can meet together with a common goal or idea and sure Bitcoin can be a big topic
but hopefully there are more topics on the table which together with Bitcoin could hopefully
build trade, sustainability and security for these forgotten and unknown countries.

I find it quite interesting to see Egypt and Pakistan listed.

Yes, at last countries are now open to innovations and adaption of technology. More and more countries will follow this event, El Salvador initiative makes other country to move. But what thing that keeps on my mind is, are they going to regulate it? are they going to put tax on it? I will be surely invested with this event.

What I see is more poor countries trying to take a huge risk to get out of poverty. Which can backfire if Bitcoin will have a multi-year-long bear market. And overall not a sound plan, because national wealth is created by citizens who produce goods and services, it doesn't come from governments speculative investments. You can adopt Bitcoin as a legal tender all you want, it won't change anything.

It's funny to see keyboard warriors from their basement make fun of countries trying to improve their economy just because their GDP is low.
In any case @romero121 pointed out something interesting that seems to have gone unnoticed. In the list there are countries that have really banned bitcoin like Bangladesh. Nobody has anything to say about that?! They are all going to a place where bitcoin is going to be one of the main topics of discussion. Is it going to reverse their decision on the ban?

About a year ago someone on Reddit claimed that foreigners have already been coming to El Salvador and made investment there before bitcoin adoption. Many migrated from countries such as Sweden to live there and their security was good enough. The crimes are usually focused in certain parts of the country.

I believe Bitcoin City project could also attract more foreign investment which seems to be what they hope for too although I wish someone from El Salvador was on bitcointalk and could give us better information.

This is big. This is not just an ordinary meeting. By the looks of it, it seems the IMF and the World Bank will have to call some central bank governors and heads to confirm their attendance to this said event and perhaps relay some subtle threats and bad-mouthing of Bitcoin. But regardless of the possible repercussions of this huge meeting, I’m excited of the output. I’m excited of what’s going to come out of this. Whatever happens, financial inclusion and banking the unbanked should be the top priority. Bitcoin is just here as an alternative technology to achieve this.

I've been skeptical about this ever since El Salvador went into military/police crackdown on the streets. Initially sounded like good news but then as the details of Bitcoin implementation came about and then you saw how non-transparent they were with the disbursement and awarding of company contracts, you understand that this was just another semi dictator playing with his own toys.

In the end, it's still better than borrowing US dollars like they used to and seeing themselves get into debt with the international community anyway I guess.

South Asia (Nepal India Bangladesh Pakistan etc) is not well known for the way they handle crypto for sure, always trying to tax their poor and even on their remittances but I actually think educating the countries about Bitcoin is a good thing. Maybe they change their minds about it and let their workers save money with remitting Bitcoin.

I see most of those Banks come from 3rd world countries, so my thinking is just the opposite of what you guys are thinking. What if the President of El Salvador is asking these Banks to come together to discuss the ways in which these Banks are handling the un-Banked in their countries ...and not to share El Salvador's experience with Bitcoin as a legal tender?

We know the IMF have turned their back on El Salvador..... so they are now seeking other ways to loan money.. and they know that they not going to get it from the IMF. (1st world countries)  ::)

This is good news and a breath of fresh air during these hard times in the crypto industry wherein people were really felt negativity all over the place. With so many people have many paper losses with bitcoin situations right now, this news will definetly change the winds of negativity to positivity due to this news.

I doubt that this meeting has any impact on the price of BTC, because for days we have almost identical situations where the price changes in the range of about 5% in both directions within 24 hours. Social networks are full of people who do not understand that this is not a meeting focused exclusively on Bitcoin, but obviously any good news creates hope that the price will rise.

---

I checked what it was about and immediately saw that it was the former Swaziland that changed its name in 2018, but I must admit that I missed the news. The Kingdom of Eswatini even sounds better, and if the country has the potential for tourism, I think it can attract more tourists looking for some new tourist locations.

---

I think that every decision is subject to change, especially if we put this meeting in the context of the time we are currently in. Many have ignored Bitcoin in the past and then changed their minds, let’s just remember what Saylor thought about Bitcoin a decade ago. We can hope that at least some countries will change their hard line on Bitcoin, at least in the sense that they will remove it from the black list if nothing else.

Whenever there is news that is negative about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, we don't like it, we hate them. And when there is news like this, it's favorable and it's always a developing story, an open story that we're looking forward to because of the positivity that it brings not just to the market itself but as someone, who's involved in this community. It's a very good news that they're having a meeting and the subject of that meeting is bitcoin and for sure other interesting things about digital money.

I don't know about Egypt, but I remember reading that the government of Pakistan was considering banning all Bitcoin and crypto-related transactions at the beginning of 2022. I am not sure how all that ended. Besides that, Pakistan is an Islamic nation that respects Sharia law. And according to Sharia law, crypto is forbidden. Anything that involves interest, gambling, and speculating is against the law. I am certainly not an expert on the subject, but I would be interested to hear what someone who is says about it. Muslim nations have a very traditionalist viewpoint and they don't deviate from what they consider to be values that must be maintained. 

I honestly doubt that he would be able to pull off what he is promising. I get that he could have meetings with those places (or maybe he won't) but at the same time just because he discusses bitcoin doesn't mean anything great for bitcoin neither.

This is why I believe that this is nothing of worth, nothing that we should get excited about the crypto world nor would it impact the price of crypto. Even with El Salvador making it a legal tender, it didn't impacted at all and why would the action itself wouldn't impact the price but discussing it would? Only possibility would be convincing someone much bigger to do it and that would impact it, but I doubt he would be that convincing, nor that quickly.

You have to realize that there are different fractions of Islam. For example there are extremists namely Saudi Arabia regime, the birthplace of ISIS, AlQuaide, etc. who practice what is commonly known as radical Islam. Who knows what they think about crypto, they still nail people to the cross in the middle of their streets.
Then there are more moderate ones (Shia and Sunni) like Iran and even though there may be some difference of opinions but what I've gathered majority of them say bitcoin is halal if used for anything halal. In other words if you receive a payment for an honest job in bitcoin, there is no problem.

Usury and gambling are prohibited. Interest or speculation is not.

Bitcoin is starting to become part of a serious discussion by several countries showing that this is a real economic change in various parts of the world. What's a little ridiculous, bitcoin price volatility can still be caused by a small factor such as the influence of a character.

Yes, let's agree that this is not a debate, or at least what would ideally be a debate, because if you insist on lying to pretend to be right what you are doing is to give a speech instead of debating.

And here, again, you are misrepresenting. You were the one who started despising those countries and what I said is that it is normal that those countries are the ones who are interested and not the countries with the highest GDP. From there you started to misrepresent exaggerating and twisting my argument and wanting to put the burden of proof on me, when the nonsense was said by you.

I refer to statements such as this one:


And you keep on giving a speech (not debating) with bullshit like this with which you pretend to be right:


You are still in primary school, right? Do I have to explain to you that the important thing is not what you save in one transaction but in the total of all transactions per year?

Bukele has said that these innovations will save Salvadorans $400 million annually in remittance fees.

https://blockworks.co/el-salvador-bitcoin-wallet-could-disrupt-traditional-remittance-markets/

I don't know how the issue will be in real numbers today but at least that's what he said.

Bukele also said that he dug a 95 MW well in one month and miners in Salvador will get cheap energy. It turned out to be fake too.
Let's look at the article itself and focus on the can


Let's go to the examples at hand:

Ok, let's do the math, 2.5 million people that send back through WU at least 6 billion, which makes around 2500 per person, or 200$ a month so why would anyone send 25$ each week? And if you argue that some send less and some send more, then the percentage obviously goes down, right?

But how about we stop taking data presented by others and look at the real deal, isn't this the way bitcoin works? Don't Trust, Verify?
And here is WU, and suddenly there is no 12% for 100$ (https://talkimg.com/images/2023/06/12/A8T1C.png) but 8%, and 5% for 200$ (https://talkimg.com/images/2023/06/12/A8tWb.png) and here we're talking about instant cash pick-ups because if I would go an use a bank account to pay for this it woudl cost only 6$ for 200$, that's 3%.
Now, with the 200$ batches, there isn't even enough in fees to save $400m as all the fees would be $300m.

But let's say I'm stupid, I'm evil and I'm ill-intentioned, all my figures are bankers' lies and the WU site lies also,  so let's stick to logic.
After one week of hard-working for a few hundred $, would you use a service that charges you 30% to send money or just pull your funds together with a few friends and buy a damn plane ticket back home with that cash?  ;D
Are you telling me that the people who figured out how bitcoin works and how it can be used were too dumb to find a transfer method that wouldn't charge them 30%?

Use your brain, don't swallow propaganda, even if it's the propaganda you want to believe in!

That makes sense. Whether I pay you in cash, Bitcoin, herbs and spices, or precious stones, I am paying for a service that you rendered. On the other hand, if you were to purchase and invest in Bitcoin with the intention to sell it in the future and double your money, that would probably not be acceptable.

Are you sure about that? I don't think interest is allowed in Islam. Googling it finds plenty of sources saying it isn't.

Then there is Islamic Banking.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/oct/29/islamic-finance-sharia-compliant-money-interest

Banks do make money though (obviously) but in some other means as described in the article.

Wow this is some pretty impressive stuff here in regards to positive developments for bitcoin. Obviously El Salvador is a big bitcoin/ cryptocurrency adopter so the fact that they are all meeting there shows their great interest in bitcoin and potentially making it one of their currencies. Can’t wait to see what comes of this.

We are not sure yet how this meeting is going to affect bitcoin and the adoption of bitcoin but from what we can see most of these countries are the countries with no strong fiat currencies so they may show interest in accepting bitcoin like Nayib Bukele did accept in El Salvador. But on the other hand, this meeting is going to happen just a few days after the recent crash in the market that things happened to some altcoins like luna which can have some bad effect on their aspect of view from bitcoin, we should wait to see how Nayib Bukele is going to present bitcoin in this meeting and what's gonna be the result of this meeting.

Poor countries from Africa although have many participants and support still not enough I think with one words from one bigger country like United State, but have good news with bitcoin slowly become popular digital currency transaction for the future and adopt by many countries right now. Good way take by El Savador how to build some countries community make bitcoin as legal currency transaction, that true for the future faced problem with poor country get difficult about internet access, mobile phone, and computer who support when using bitcoin as legal currency transaction.

Yeah they might show interest, it also doesn't mean that many of them would immediately make Bitcoin a legal tender in their own country by the way, and even if they do, i honestly do not think it will have too much of an impact on Bitcoin (not immediately at least), especially when you take a good look at the countries having the said meeting. I know it is not possible right now for first world countries to take steps such as this regarding Bitcoin, of course not, they are solely focused on continually improving their fiat currency/economy, but if that happens somewhere along the line, then we could call it a big news, and one that will have an effect on Bitcoin. Don't get me wrong, i am not just merely pushing this away as nothing, of course not, if you look at how old Bitcoin is as a currency (relatively young), then you would understand that it is actually something worthy of note for countries to include its adoption in their discussion, irrespective of the countries that make up the meeting.
They should obviously have done their research, they definitely would be aware of the risk in the network, and that it it not a stable one, so this shouldn't be any problem at all in respect to the general view/discussion.

Yes. For example banks in Islamic Republic of Iran do give interest on the money you have in your bank account and there are loans and mortgages that you have to pay interest on. A lot like any other bank.

There is a difference between interest and riba. The former is a profit that is agreed upon by both parties and is paid at predefined intervals but the later is a profit that the lender decides on and enforces and can change at any time. The later is not allowed not the former.

The other difference is (I suppose) that the bank is obligated to invest the money into the economy.
Other than that there is a lot of technical details that I'm not informed enough to explain.

That could be a thing as well if you ask me. I mean if we are talking about just low level nations all get together and build some bridge via bitcoin, that would actually be something awesome for them. Imagine growing bigger all together, let's say 40 nations, if 40 of the poorest nations all get together, and have some "organization" or whatever situation, then we are going to end up seeing them be richer when the price of bitcoin goes up.

And considering they could all focus on just one thing together, that would be a ton of money as well and that means a ton of leverage as well. Putting 50-100 billion into it, could end up with 1+ trillion dollars which would allow them to use that as leverage to build so much and get richer.

Not a good moment for this meeting. The timing is wrong and it can give the impression El Salvador is despaired after the last bitcoin crash which lead the country investment in btc's losses to tens of millions of dollars. How can this fact look persuasive in a meeting that is supposed to push adoption upside in emerging countries? The reality is showing exactly the opposite.

And frankly, the event should count with the participation of more influent and productive countries to give credibility to itself and especially to bitcoin...

Huh?  Shouldn't they be able to determine for themselves what they would like to discuss or not discuss and how much of the discussion to have in terms of their topics and whether they believe it might be helpful to discuss ?

Why wouldn't a country be able to do more than one thing at a time, even if such country might be some rinky-dinky and hardly able to afford anything location?

Last time that I checked, bitcoin is not only for rich people.

Last time I checked, you do not even have to buy a whole BTC.

Last time I checked, there are a variety of ways that something like bitcoin could be adopted or implemented.


Surely, the lightning network seems to establish a lot of potential transactional mechanisms, and bitcoin's historical price performance and even various fundamentals related to adoption seem to establish that bitcoin is an ongoing asymmetric bet to the upside, so there are a variety of ways that governments might consider employing or promoting aspects of bitcoin without necessarily increasing their risk profile - but instead potentially cause their situations to be better, not only from and institutional/governmental perspective but also various ways that their citizens would likely end up having more (rather than fewer) options.

In essence, it seems that bitcoin increases rather than lessens options, and there are all kinds of variations in the ways that countries and/or banks might consider adding those kinds of options within their countries and/or maybe the ways that they interact between each other from the country, institutional and/or individual perspective.


Huh?

I agree with part of your point that some countries might not have very many activities or production that is monetized, but even poor countries have developed economies that include monetary components, and even if they might not have as much monetary activities in comparison to more developed countries/economies, bitcoin is still designed to be able to help within a variety of circumstances.. and surely, it would likely help some segments of any society more than other segments, but still would not justify that bitcoin should not be considered even though there could be some concerns about "how much" to adopt or invest in bitcoin as a country rather than "whether" to invest in bitcoin as a country.


It's too bad that you either fail or refuse to use the word "bitcoin" at even one point in your post, even though the title of the thread mentions bitcoin, and even though the legal tender law in El Salvador was ONLY about bitcoin.

Regarding your chosen word "crypto"  I don't really know what that is, but yeah, sure there are a bunch of shitcoin projects that are still likely hanging on the apron strings of whatever is done in bitcoin including having various interests in El Salvador and other poor countries (and people), too.

And, yeah sure there is a lot of confusion for a lot of folks to not know the difference between bitcoin and crypto, and hopefully your failure/refusal to use the word bitcoin in your post, TimeTeller, was an oversight (or maybe you did do it on purpose) rather than your actually not knowing what is bitcoin and unable to actually figure out how the focus of many of the serious (non-scam) financial institutional (and maybe even quasi-governmental) contenders is tending to be on bitcoin first (and bitcoin focused). .even though surely some serious and BIG financial institutions have also got diverted into various shitcoins too.. but hopefully, many of us in this forum are ready, willing and able to try to understand and appreciate how bitcoin is differentiated from various shitcoins and scam projects that are many times associated with folks who use the term "crypto" and not able to distinguish what is bitcoin, no?

hosting the meeting is not about the rise and fall of bitcoin volatility neither was it base on the fact that some make looses while others profit from it, no, they have to hold a meeting to deliberate solely about what bitcoin is, it role, and how they can maximize the opportunity in it to boost their economy, remember some discussions were better done in person, hosting a global meeting like this will as well encourages for more adoption, no one is looking at the experience that might have occured in the past but the major role bitcoin has come to in the global economy system.


bitcoin has gone beyond showcasing, infact it is not to please anyone or entice any country because it is decentralized and it has made justification to what fiat couldn't do, which is privacy, anonymity and decentralization. if the developed countries are not seeing the opportunity then the developing ones could maximize such to help their citizens and boost the run of their economy.

Good news in a market situation that is still red, this can make investors optimistic and of course will continue to buy, I'm sure more countries will immediately receive bitcoin as legal assets equivalent to other commodities, and some countries are currently open tender for Legalized Bitcoin.

Yeah, and I actually agree with this hypothesis. It doesn't surprise me that the countries weren't those with well-developed economies. If a country has a relatively low poverty and unemployment rate, relatively high standard of life one can afford on an average salary and overall slow but steady growth of the economy, there's a lot at risk when going into new areas and little incentive to do so. In countries that are struggling, however, taking risks makes more sense because some sort of improvement is urgently needed. Cryptos can bring new investments into the country, create new jobs, make people more engaged in the economic process. So there's a lot to gain potentially, even though it might not work in the best envisioned way.

This will certainly be very positive for bitcoin and its future. Indeed we will have good news if many countries regardless of their economic status will try to adopt bitcoin as a means of payment and legalize it. This will specifically help bitcoin get a lot of users to achieve its main function as a currency.

I honestly just think that when there are a lot of small countries starting to do it for bitcoin, then the best thing we can hope for is countries with big economic power will try to do it sooner or later.

Maybe many investors will take advantage of buying the dip because so far the market rarely crashes below $30k, I have also been waiting for the current dip price condition because maybe after it recovers there is no chance to buy it before the market is bullish.

This news alone can't change the mood of investors and change the bearish trend. This will take some time if the theory of bitcoin cycles is correct. Of course, this news will be included in the treasury of events that have a positive impact on the crypto industry, but the effect will most likely not appear immediately.

By the way, I would like to know the results of this meeting with representatives of 44 countries. What decisions ended their discussion?

Positive news in bull market will be big booster but positive news in bear market is like nothing. Nobody care to believe such news can change the bear trend. They only read and digest news like entertainment.

Positive news are helpful in bull market to make noise, attract investors and get new capital flow. Negative news in bear market are helpful for Market makers and who follow them. I believe if this meeting and news occur in 2021, it would result in massive blow off Bitcoin to the Moon.

According to the event’s calendar (https://www.afi-global.org/activities/events-calendar/), the event is still running today, although it may have a shorter agenda as often closing days do.

So far, the closest I’ve found in terms of details on the event can be seen in the news section (https://www.afi-global.org/newsroom/news/digital-ecosystems-sme-finance-for-greater-financial-inclusion/) of the AFI site. There are also three speeches in the corresponding section, that date back from the opening date (16/05/2022):

https://www.afi-global.org/newsroom_speeches/25th-dfswg-and-18th-smefwg-meetings-opening-remarks-by-afi-policy-programs-implementation-director-eliki-boletawa/

https://www-afi--global-org.translate.goog/newsroom_speeches/25th-dfswg-and-18th-smefwg-meetings-opening-remarks-by-banco-central-de-reserva-el-salvador-lic-douglas-rodriguez/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp

https://www-afi--global-org.translate.goog/newsroom_speeches/25th-dfswg-and-18th-smefwg-meetings-opening-remarks-by-miguel-kattan-secretary-of-commerce-and-investments-of-el-salvador/?_x_tr_sl=es&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=es&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Note, the latter two were in Spanish, so I added the GT links to them.

I left some further more extensive info in a couple of posts on the large El Salvador thread:
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5342087.msg60173206#msg60173206
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5342087.msg60173914#msg60173914

investors who have more funds are sure to buy more bitcoins during a dip (a few days ago)...

after 2 weeks ago bitcoin price fell to $26k+, today bitcoin price corrected up to $30k+. This bitcoin price increase of course happened because investors bought more when the price fell (they took advantage of the opportunity), I think the news about the meeting that will be held in El Salvador (@OP) to discuss bitcoin is really good news.

We don't know the result yet, but maybe in the near future. But don't expect that the meeting will only discuss specifically about bitcoin because I think there are other interests that will be on the agenda of the meeting. It might be good to expect something spectacular to happen for bitcoin's future ^{[adoption in many small countries],} but there are stages that countries need to consider before adopting it.

I hope this will be a good fundamental for bitcoin in the near term so we can expect a price recovery. But what's great now about El Salvador is that they have become an important country to get more information about whether or not bitcoin adoption is good for a country's economy, especially regarding the financial system.

The Middle East could incorporate crypto into their economies despite gambling being haram because the argument would be that crypto currency usage doesn't incur risk for profit. The interpretations of crypto currency's compliance to Sharia also depend on what scholar wants to opine on the matter, and that usually involves arbitrary interpretation of the Quran. I don't have any expertise on the matter, only looking at what some scholars have talked about. None of it makes any sense to me. Most muslims seem accepting of crypto currency, but not the theocrats that govern Islamic countries.

That would be great, and I feel that out of those 44 countries maybe even more than just 1-2 countries could choose to adopt bitcoin as legal tender.

You do realize that we need to start somewhere, don't you? Or were you expecting to see countries like the US, England, France, etc to be the first ones to adopt bitcoin? I think it's even good that it's happening in Central-South America and Africa because it's easier to get a domino effect over there, there are less regulations than in the first world countries and if they want to do something, they just do. If we begin to have 3-4 countries next to each other accepting bitcoin, well, things will get very very interesting!

This is a really good piece of news for Bitcoin and all Bitcoin hodlers. However, as optimistic as I want to be about this news, I doubt that a single meeting will convince any leader of an entire country to adopt Bitcoin as legal tender just yet. El Salvador has yet to show everyone their own specific use cases and adoption cases for Bitcoin. Simple hype is not going to be enough. Except perhaps for the marketing aspect of Bitcoin adoption.

I do think that El Salvador has benefitted a lot from making Bitcoin legal tender, however they could boast about their achievements a bit more. At this point it almost feels like their adoption of Bitcoin was nothing more than a short-lived hype (even though we know thats not true).

Imagine you are selling a product and need customers, so you gather hundreds of people in a room to show your product with the final goal of convincing those people to buy it. In order to convince people, you need to show statistics, and practical experiences of those who have already used the product and the product being used live, before the eyes of the public.

That is what Bukele attempted to do, not because he is the owner of bitcoin, but because he has invested million of dollars of public funds on the cryptocurrency, and of course he wants positive returns from it for the good of his country's economy and for the good of his political career.

The issue is that right now he doesn't have positive results to show to the audience regards the practical adoption of bitcoin by El Salvador. Most citizens just grabbed 30$ in btc from Chivo wallet and exchanged it to dollar currency, without using bitcoin after that. Public investments in btc are heavily negative and the whole establishment turned against Bukele, what is really painful for a leader. So, how is he going to convince all those foreigners efficiently bitcoin going legal tender is a good idea on the present moment?

Developing countries are well known for having corrupt leaders. Actually, citizens from these countries are usually in miserable financial and social situations because of the corruption of their leaders. I can't see how bitcoin being adopted by corrupt authorities would help those citizens. I can talk with property regards this matter, because I'm one citizen from a developing country and to say the truth I would feel unconfortable and suspicious if governors here developed interest for bitcoin.

Not that every tier 1 countries should participate the meeting, but the total lack of developed countries is really frustrating... I think balance is needed.

Wow these are really a lot of good news. All this news will bring a lot of benefits for Bitcoin.If 44 countries accept Bitcoin together and launch the facility, then of course Bitcoin will move to a very good position.But Bitcoin will one day bring benefits to everyone. Bitcoin will be introduced in every country. But that is not far off.

Central banks and financial authorities from countries in Africa and Asia want to meet in El Salvador to discuss about several things, among are financial inclusion, digital economy, banking the unbanked, bitcoin rollout and its benefits in El Salvador. The OP title makes it look like it is majorly bitcoin they want to discuss about, but not. But if bitcoin is also discussed, probably some central banks might be convinced but I doubt that because most central banks prefer their local currencies. I hope the central banks and the financial authorities that will go for the meeting will soon realize how bitcoin can help their citizens during inflation.

It isn't maybe, I am sure lots of investors are accumulating in this dip, taking advantage of a lower priced Bitcoin.



I am sure they are having this meeting to take advantage on how they will milk the cryptocurrency market.  When countries gather in a meeting like this, they always talk about stuffs on how their institution can take advantage on the laid concept.  If these institution come into agreement, we might see a massive adoption, thus creating a new waves of investors and may be a possible turning point of the BTC market.

We need to focus on how these talks will benefit bitcoin. If positive decisions are taken as a result of this meeting and the majority continues to have positive ideas about bitcoin, I think that this will be a factor in the rise of bitcoin and may cause a price increase. otherwise, the decline and negative opinion increases may continue.

By third day of the Meeting representatives from different central banks have gathered in the Bitcoin beach and has shouted bitcoin. Nothing positive as we expected have come out of the meeting. Few central bank representatives have stated it isn't the way to discuss about bitcoin in such an environment. Anyhow soon we'll get to see what has happened out of the meeting.

No, not just two but many, that is what I see. It is just to see that many people are curious about crypto, especially for Bitcoin, the more they got into knowing how this work and the more they support this becoming a legal tender. Might not be too impressive to see what happens with Bitcoin adoption in El Salvador but this serves as a mirror to other countries that there is no wrong about trying. It was really hard to encourage people nor they can urge us especially if we don't understand it.

Well, I hope this meeting is successful and more countries have been encouraged to give support Bitcoin and to consider it as legal tender aside from fiat.

The name El-Salvador will never be omitted or forgotten in the history of Bitcoin for her bold move for being the first country to make Bitcoin a legal tender in the world. Up until now, it never stop paving ways for other countries and institutions.

It could be good news to speculators that they are having a meeting but ideally, it is of no benefit to bitcoiners, just a group of failed traditional banking systems who want to learn what the new model of bitcoin is and how it works. Not as if the representative has the final say to implement bitcoin, if the country still rules for or against the use of bitcoin, all of them there cannot do anything to change that, only the government in power has the power to do it. El Salvador is doing its best to spread crypto adoption and I love the energy and commitment they put into bitcoin. #Hodl.

It must be appreciated what the leaders of Elsavador have done by adopting bitcoin as a legal tender, because as a leader, they must always have a visionary mission to see the future that will happen.

Nayib Bukele, president of El Salvador has a far-sighted view, that bitcoin will be able to help the economy for his country. Although this action has been criticized a lot but as a leader who knows what will happen in the future with bitcoin, of course he will do it wisely and measuredly.

hopefully what elsavador is doing will continue to be followed by many other countries and will make bitcoin trusted and able to compete in the future, of course it is not easy to convince all parties of this.

They are first to make btc a legal tender but I don't think they have the ability to see the future. Like anyone else, they are only doing a prediction. They do have an experience on how to deal with stuffs when btc value declines or if there are other difficulties, aside from the advantages that btc can provide. This is what other countries wants to know on why they will go and do a meeting on El Salvador.

El salvador is having its own bitcoin city is also the best place for meetings related to bitcoins. As of now, there are two countries that have been added in the list to adopt btc as a legal tender. This is a good start. Other's can just follow soon once they are now ready.

When you are a big nation and you have funds that you could store and not even care about, then you become a great long term holder that wouldn't worry about anything else. When you are a great long term holder then you do not even have "predictions", but more like future profits not recouped yet. People literally take loans against the stocks they own in the US, not an easy thing to do but if you are rich enough then they let you do it, because they know that they could liquidate you and thats fine. So long story short, El Salvador knows what they are doing, its not a prediction if you can wait 10 years or more, and as long as president stays the same or the new one doesn't change mind, then this is going to be super profitable for them.

Yes definitely after the meeting we will some smaller countries accepting Bitcoins officially as a tender.
This is a great revolutionary movement, and we should praise El Salvador for this.
Earlier El Salvador took the advantage of bear market and bought hundreds of coins, now this time they will hold it until Bitcoins recover to their original price. This will surely motivate other economical backward countries to invest in Bitcoins and digital currency.
Let’s see what outcomes come from the meeting.

Bitcoin is going through a winter, most people's wealth is down and Elsavador is not immune to doubts about their bitcoin holdings. But I believe that once the bear season is over and the bull season comes, when bitcoin will bounce back and generate $100k ATH as everyone has predicted, then all doubts about El Salvador will be removed. I am confident that at least two or three of these 44 countries will follow El Salvador's example.
As long as bitcoin rebounds and Elsavador proves they were right to accept bitcoin, the bitcoin effect of the legal tender will quickly spread.

I do hope that El Salvador knows what they are doing, if they keep doing something that doesn't really mean much, then we are not going to end up seeing more nations that go with bitcoin in the long run. However, if we are going to end up seeing how the system works and El Salvador making money from it and promoting it, then we are going to see many other smaller nations that go into it with them.

So, what they are doing is very important, it will decide the direction of all other nations and it will take a while before we could actually do something about it. What I hope really is that the president stays another term, because new one could sell it right away.

Before now I was seeing El Salvador president as an ordinary bitcoin enthusiasts who out of his love for bitcoin made his country to accept bitcoin as legal tender. But when he began to buy deep even when he previously bought high and being criticised by many people I began to understand he is more than an ordinary bitcoin man.
Inviting upto 44 countries to his country for bitcoin conference is making me think that he is my elder brother (Satoshi) ;D. This is a good development.

---

I saw my country in the list - Nigeria and I am happy, but it seems that it is mostly Africa countries or under developed countries that are on the list.

Crypto winters are not finished yet, though the market is trying to correct itself. El Salvador needs to be optimistic about their holdings that soon this will be over and the market will go uptrend again.

Crypto winter is never going to end, the altcoins will continue to dump until they die and replaced by new altcoins. If it were anything other than this we would have had a million altcoins on exchanges instead of a thousand!

Bitcoin on the other hand which is what all these countries are interested in, is going to rise in the long run and it has nothing to do with optimism, it is facts based on the unique and useful utilities that bitcoin provides.

El Salvador has long been optimistic on Bitcoin and I have also never seen any concerns raised on the part of El Salvador, so there is no need to say to remain optimistic about El Salvador because the government of El Salvador has long been very optimistic about their holdings and that I think they are ( El Salvador) will forever be optimistic about Bitcoin and its holdings forever.

Have we even sat down to think about the reasons behind the meeting of about 44 countries in El-Savador aside the said discussion about bitcoin the media reports, from my perspective, when you take a unique and drastic steps seeming stupid in the eyes of others but you are good, ok a d contempted about your decisions it calls for attention, many bitcoiners, entrepreneurs, inventors and businessmen would have deliberate about Nayib Bukele actions and found it interesting enough to learn from, you must try something new to be a legend, this leadership from El-Savador's president Bukele is another creative lessons they all come around to learn but not only in learning but seing it as well with regards to their bitcoin adoption, am sure they all had something tangible as take home to their various countries after the meeting.

Least you get excited seeing your country on GXX lists, it just gives me a wry smile each time mine appears. Hand holding, back slapping, money to be made for them and not for their people. Bitcoin doesn't need the state to but Bitcoin and hold it, or give the people more handouts, they need the state to fix the structures from scratch and allow, not control, Bitcoin (which, really, believe me, is what G20, G44, G7, etc will always be about).

the winter will never end, where many new projects for altcoin keep coming to occupy their best positions, but the fact is that many have retreated and died,
el salvador itself as we know they are very optimistic that bitcoin will again reach ATH and it will provide multiple benefits in their country, even though BTC is currently experiencing a decline and making their country's assets also go into crisis

with the gathering of big people and important people from various countries this is good news, now the name bitcoin has become increasingly popular in this world so that many countries have adopted it and because they all see the great potential in bitcoin, and this is also good news for the public. Bitcoin investors, myself included, are delighted to hear this news. and I think bitcoin will be more successful in the future.

how do you come into concluding on this one, even without bitcoin adoption each country has their economic challenges on how its been run and many still go more in debt, but aside the previous ones before the adoption of bitcoin as a legal tender in El-Savador, I've not heard from the news that it went ahead in seeking for another loan, remember they don't solely rely on bitcoin for their economic sustainability, there are other means of steady income.

I do not think that "all" will die, sure there will be plenty that dies and they become smaller, but the reality is that stuff like eth or bnb for example will stay, they will keep their positions and they will go on to grow in order to be bigger. I am not saying this for all, I can't talk about what will happen to ADA or AVAX or SOL or whatever, maybe they will stay too, or maybe they will be gone but I know for a fact that btc-eth-bnb will stay because that trio is strong.

All in all, the best thing we can do right now would be to make sure that we do not hold the ones that are risky and may die, and we end up holding the ones we know for a fact that will stay healthy during bull run.

Don't know if they have capacity to take a loan again since maybe they tighten up their belts to do this because they are suffering huge lose from the bear market season, But we don't really know the real score about that since there are other conclusion that they might be successful if they continue to accumulate while bitcoin dumps badly last couple of months or days. I never heard any hype coming from El Salvador or maybe we just missed the updates about crypto adoption on their country.

I disagree specially about the altcoins you named.
The centralized altcoins that have serious design flaws are guaranteed to die. The only reason why their life is long is because of the rich centralized authorities behind them.
Otherwise ETH has unlimited supply and serves no purpose other than providing a platform to create useless tokens to pump and dump. And BNB is only alive because of the centralized altcoin exchange and without it this token has no purpose. All it takes is a government cracking down on them for BNB to drop down to zero in less than an hour.

Not so many countries have adopted Bitcoin mate, remember that Bitcoin is decentralized and free from government control, which is something that governments do not like, thus the more reason why they would want to avoid Bitcoin completely, and impose regulations to limit the number of people that will use it. Bitcoin of course is already successful, it can no longer be said to be an 'experiment', or a coin that will die or go extinct, which makes things better, as it is its utility that is responsible for its success, and even without the acceptance of most governments, Bitcoin is still what it is.

This is a great news. Wow, if even 3-4 countries will adopt the system of bitcoin completely then u know what will happen , more countries will come and discuss about this system and market will boom after that. Well, this is the right time to invest.....

fuck shitcoins. .including but not limited to ETH and BNB..

You have hardly any assurance (beyond your feelings) that you are not going to get rugpulled with either ETH and BNB or any other shitcoin, so stop trying to equate those pieces of shit to bitcoin... merely because they seem to currently have network effects or whatever other lame feeling that you have about those coins/projects, and if you had not realized bitcoin has fundamental reasons for existing beyond its mere network effects... even if concededly network effects does make any project including bitcoin stronger and also including shitcoins, such network effects are not enough to ensure that any one of those various shitcoins have any assurance of survival beyond some kind of rugpull and merely because they have created various complicated rube goldberg intricacies within them... and yeah of course, the various shitcoins might also be able to keep up their appearances of actually having value for years or decades into the future, but absent some further developments, they currently do not even come close to having any kind of use case that even approximates what bitcoin is actually bringing to the table.

In other words, have you heard of poof of work and what actually distinguishes bitcoin from any other project, including but not limited to being distinguished from either of the two shitcoins that you listed or any other shitcoin?  Yes, there is actual amazing paradigm innovation with bitcoin that has not even close to having had ben challenged or competed with by any other project and/or shitcoin so far... when you have one, then please point it out, but surely your examples of ethereum and/or binance coin are not even close enough to establish any kind of substantial and/or meaningful rivalry regarding the use case(s) that bitcoin is serving and building since it went live in early 2009.

To bring this topic back to El Salvador, for various reasons including the fact that bitcoin is distinguished from the various other "crypto" projects including but not limited to shitcoins such as ethereum and binance coin (BNB), El Salvador has ONLY recognized bitcoin as legal tender.. and the reason seems to be that El Salvador recognizes and appreciates that bitcoin is distinguished from any other crypto projects, including those two shitcoins that you mentioned.   Sure, we cannot be sure if other countries might get caught up into various shitcoins, but so far it seems that El Salvador has not gotten caught up into promoting any other "crypto" besides bitcoin, even if it seems to have not necessarily made any of the shitcoins (including ethereum and/or binance coin or any other shitcoin) illegal in its jurisdiction.

The first thing that made El Salvador legalize bitcoin as a legal tender is its use case. Decentralization may be another reason and then they start thinking about how the country can benefit from it by buying or investing initiated by Bukele. It's not about altcoin although there really isn't a clear reason why it's banned or not in the country. The use of altcoin will certainly be a different topic of discussion about El Salvador and bitcoin being legalized, the main focus being bitcoin which allows them to save on remittance fees instead of using fiat and fiat centralized services.

I haven't been following their bitcoin adoption much so far but it seems like some time ago they were said to have failed due to lack of interest from the public. I don't know, they have done their best to give their citizens freedom to use money, the state supports a decentralized currency and every citizen may have a bank in their hands because of that.

I agree with everything that you outline here.. except I do not agree with any assertion that this kind of an adoption/initiative of bitcoin could be reasonably (or informatively) characterized as having had "failed" in any sense of the word with less than 1 year of having had gone into effect.. remember the actual law went into effect on September 7, 2021..

Furthermore, you indicated that the law gives citizens and residence of El Salvador more options.. whether they are actually in the country or transacting from outside of the country... If you, or any other member, wants to proclaim some kind of "failure" then you better come up with some data to support it, and I am not even saying that any of us need to agree with your data, but merely proclaiming that "failure" exists needs some kind of quantification and/or support for what is meant by that.. Sure it is possible to come up with various examples, such as 1) the chivo wallet had problems or 2) El Salvador is no longer offering a bitcoin bond, or 3) Only 10% or less (I am not sure about the number) of remittances have converted over to bitcoin from Western Union, or 4) on paper El Salvador is in the negative in terms of how much it spent on BTC versus how much the BTC are currently worth on the spot market, and/or 5) other examples of supposed failure or less than stellar success.. blah blah blah.. yet just coming up with a list of examples of less than stellar success is likely not going to be very convincing if there are not attempts to show various ways that adoption and awareness of bitcoin is increasing in the country (even if it is going at a rate that might well be slower than expected).

Ever since El Salvador announced that they had legalized bitcoin as a legal tender as well as a currency, I remember that I haven't once spoken about the failure of that adoption. I didn't imagine that it actually failed even though it was a failure talked about by several people on the forums. So if you say I said El Salvador is failing about its bitcoin adoption then I don't agree either. So I'm on the same side as you who might disagree if people assume that the adoption of bitcoin in El Salvador has failed to meet its goals.

At this stage I understand that El Salvador is not perfect in terms of careful preparation of bitcoin adoption plans. They were the first to state in law that bitcoin is legal as a currency and means of payment, their drawbacks are talked about but we cannot expect them to be perfect from the start. In contrast to later countries that also want to legalize and adopt bitcoin, they learn from El Salvador's imperfections so it may be slightly more likely to achieve a success percentage over El Salvador.

For sure, I wanted to clarify since you did use the word failure, and even if you had been referring to how others seem to see the El Salvador adoption matter, the word failure was still used, so it seems good for us to clarify the matter and to go over what might constitute failure for anyone who might want to present the El Salvador adoption matter as a failure.  

There are forum threads on the topic and surely a decent number of naysayers in regards to El Salvador's bitcoin adoption - and surely it seems way too soon (premature) for them to have enough evidence to establish such a status even though some members do seem to either enjoy making those kinds of characterizations or citing lame mainstream articles that are making similar assertions about El Salvador's purported bitcoin adoption failure.

On a personal level, I do not mind allowing the facts take us where ever they might take us, so surely there should not be any problem attempting to either figure out various facts on the ground regarding what is happening in El Salvador and also to attempt to figure out if there might be either positive or negative developments in regards to how El Salvador's bitcoin adoption might be playing out.

in fact the actions of el salvador in legalizing bitcoin as a legal tender has opened the eyes of the world. has encouraged more people to dive into bitcoin and study it more deeply. The spark that el salvador has made actually has a wider positive impact on people who initially looked down on bitcoin. I say this because I am one of the people who know bitcoin since reading the news that went viral on social media about el salvador. and made me curious about bitcoin and a friend taught me a lesson about bitcoin. even some countries are starting to look secretly in studying more deeply about bitcoin. so there is no word fail for el salvador's action on the legality that he has applied to bitcoin as a legal tender in his country. because there is no real data showing the failure of El Salvador's actions to date. there are only excuses made up by anti bitcoins who always attribute el salvador's internal economic problems to bitcoin. although it has absolutely no clear connection.

In addition to bitcoin being a public conversation around the world, I think one of the positive impacts after bitcoin was legalized a lot of people talking about El Salvador. I myself don't know much about this country in the Americas, but when they successfully adopted bitcoin as a legal currency, I only learned about the country and the current president. It would be completely different if El Salvador didn't legalize bitcoin and I don't know anything about this part of the Americas. But there is a little less good impact when El Salvador legalizes bitcoin transactions, there is still no country that will follow El Salvador's footsteps to make bitcoin a legal transaction tool so far. Still need waiting few weeks, months or years later to see countries will use bitcoin as legal currency transaction payment.

they have no jurisdiction of any means in concluding that El-Savador is a failure, Nayib Bukele's decision together with the government officials to make bitcoin a legal tender is base on facts, they have planned, prepare enough resources and quite understand the pros and cons in bitcoin, they adopted it and there economy never got stucked by this decision since they have other sources to income generation, probably bitcoin adoption might be their "plan B" maybe when there's a bullrun and new ATH is set, but i will like everyone to respect the fact that El-Savador chose bitcoin adoption to use it as a currency and investment and they hold nobody explanation why, if others think right or wrong then they can as well decide theirs to either adopt or neglect.


Central African Republic is another and they are working enormously on Sango bitcoin projects.

I agree that even though there are people who dislike him for what he did, even in his own nation, he did something that is definitely improving the lives of his own people and he is investing the money he gets from taxes and that means it is going to be something that would benefit the whole world because more people will realize why something like that would be a great idea and that is a good thing.

I personally do enjoy it whenever there is a case to be made about "why should I go into bitcoin" and the more correct answers you have, the better it will be for everyone and that should be very good and very useful for when we have those type of discussions with people.

I even read that the adoption of bitcoin there has an impact on increasing the tourism sector there. in February reported an increase of about 30% and recently reported an increase again to reach about 82% (about 1.1 million visitors) . For reference many news that preach this. such as Cointelegraph and TribbunNews (trusted local news in the country now i working ).

I think that extraordinary thing would not have happened if El Salvador had not adopted bitcoin as a legal tender.

I even read from cointelegraph that several well-known bitcoiners visited there and some stayed there like Max Keizer and Stacey Herbert who also decided to live in El Salvador.

So if someone says that the increase in tourism visitors in el salvador is not related to the adoption of bitcoin in el salvador then I don't think people who talk like that don't understand what they are talking about. although there is a lot of fud news that covers up the good news related to el salvador. so it's a little hard to find.

I just hope that the meeting comes out to be successful because every day seems to be financially tough for the country and its survival. I am sure that the countries meeting up would help El Salvador in a way that it is able to make effective use of the decentralised bitcoin while taking care of its citizen’s sentiments.

Depends on the presentation given and I think since those countries are curious about the status happen to El Salvador to their adoption on bitcoin for sure they will get some good inputs there, But the one we hope here is hopefully it will convert into another series of adoption which country announce another legal tender of bitcoin to their country. If this happen for sure first world countries will raise their thoughts and maybe create good regulation towards bitcoin.

Bitcoin has a mixed reputation around the world, using Bitcoin is legal in most countries. Bitcoin presence is accepted in some countries, and banned by others.
After the media competed to report the policies of the president of El Salvador after adopting bitcoin as a legal tender in his country, now several countries are starting to race to give Bitcoin the stage. El Salvador bold move has prompted several other Latin American leaders to indicate that they will follow in El Salvador footsteps. Obviously, the way El Salvador adopted Bitcoin has pushed other country's leaders to capture something positive in Bitcoin and El Salvador has gone a step further with some infrastructure built using Bitcoin profit.

Failure only crosses the minds of people who are afraid to make changes, everyone does not like failure. The mindset of failure can turn into fear that can hinder success, but that does not apply to Nayib Bukele, he dared to make a breakthrough that shocked the world. Now leaders of other countries are starting to come to El Salvador to learn from Nayib Bukele about Bitcoin management in the country. Of course we all hope that other countries can follow in El Salvador footsteps, with continued adoption from several other countries, will further bring Bitcoin to a better direction in the future.

In fact El Salvador (https://id.bitcoinethereumnews.com/bitcoin/el-salvador-to-host-44-countries-for-bitcoin-discussion/) is proud to host the 44 countries that it meets for the purpose of discussing Bitcoin. Because as the President of El Salvador Nayib Bukele (https://portalcripto.com.br/id/presiden-nayib-bukele-mengumumkan-pertemuan-44-negara-di-el-salvador-untuk-membahas-bitcoin/) mentioned that the 44 countries will discuss about the domestic launch of Bitcoin and its benefits. And because so far El Salvador has been successful in adopting Bitcoin for its country, I think there will be more countries willing to follow in El Salvador's footsteps in terms of adopting Bitcoin and I hope that will happen in the future.

The best thing about this meeting is that Bangladesh Bank was also in it. That gives us little hope that our country is not ignoring it. They are actually learning about it and they are researching it as much as they can. So that means that, yeah, they might be thinking positively about it. So if they are thinking positively, then why not talk more about bitcoin in our country so that they can do their work a little faster? Though I don't care, when I saw my country's representative at this meeting, I felt very happy.

indeed, there may still be many countries that have very measurable considerations not to be able to adopt as soon as possible as did the state of el savador. Of course, this is as their protection against what might have a bad impact on the further development of their country before they themselves are ready.
It is only natural that many consider this as best they can, and there is nothing wrong with continuing to research and learn from El Salvador by continuing to hold bilateral meetings to discuss bitcoin.

Incidentally el savador does have the capacity for that and is able to provide understanding for many countries who really want to know about bitcoin. so of course many hope that this will continue to transmit the positive side of bitcoin to other countries who really want to continue to learn. it's clear the impact on bitcoin's development will be seen in the future, and we'll see that.

I agree because, regardless of the outcome, people are discussing. This is another big initiative to promote and encourage crypto users. Because discussion is a good opportunity to explore new things. And hope it will lead to the expansion of digital currencies worldwide.