Bitcoin Forum

Hi,
I've developed a new coin flip game that can be played with Lightning on telegram.
https://t.me/lncoinflipbot (https://t.me/lncoinflipbot)

Deposit with any lightning wallet, flip for any amount of satoshis, withdraw your earnings instantly for free.

House edge is only %0.5 and everything is provably fair. I've included a quick way to verify the seeds, hashes and results.

Any feedback is welcome,

Feel free to check out my other lightning apps/games: https://kriptode.com (https://kriptode.com)

Is there a way we can verify our bets in the Telegram bot? and do you only accept Lighting Network, what if the user accidentally deposits Bitcoin from the mainnet or it is impossible because it is only LN avaialble sorry im not too familar with how the LN works.

Glad to see that you have developed something interesting.
But OP, I have some doubts regarding it.
It would have been great if you could have provided more info regarding the fairness of the game.
Also what’s the max betting amount or max profit?
Only Bitcoins are allowed?
Also if anything goes wrong whom should we contact for instant support?
Moreover many members here in Bitcointalk don’t like to bet with their money in telegram(until unless the games are provided by some big people).
Nevertheless will surely give a try to the game if you can answer me the above asked questions.

This is really for the first time I am looking at games which are played in telegram and that too by paying and getting paid kinda stuff! That’s dope for me. How these things work man? I’m impress how they have everything connected these days through social networks, in app chat windows and linking all those LN together. Any thoughts from experts how this works and is it worth trying?

Definitely easy to play in app game but there should be vouch from someone experienced before we can risk our money. Interesting though.

Sorry OP but I have doubts too in gambling sites that is built in Telegram. I am not really sure how does it works or how fair it is but I see that the site can only handle lighting network which means low deposits or low betting game.

yes you can call /rules in the bot and it will show you how to verify.
you can call /provablyfair and it will show you current hashes.

Once you play a few hands, you can call /revealsecrets and it will give you the seeds that matches your hashes.

You can plug those into https://codesandbox.io/s/verify-provably-fair-seeds-lhfmu1 and it will show you the generated outcome of each coin flip.

it's all fair and provable.

when you call /deposit - it will only give you a lightning invoice. So it's impossible to pay onchain or any other coins. Only lightning wallets can pay these invoices.

I've been running many Lightning apps/games/services for 4+ years at kriptode.com so I know what I'm doing :D

Your house edge is enough good but I have a doubt about the gambling on telegram. Also, you are accepting only lightning network of bitcoin. I think you should increase the limitation by adding more coin and also by adding other network as well with lightning network. Also, please answer if it is possible what will happen if anyone deposit with mainnet of bitcoin.

I agree about adding bitcoin. If he's accepting LN then he should also accept bitcoin itself. But maybe there's a technical issue that for now, he's good with LN.
But soon, might add up to bitcoin so these two will be the main crypto being accepted. Did anyone already play and tried this game on telegram? I guess this is likely the 2nd or third time around that I've seen someone developed something like this.

There are several questions above , but you choose to answer this same message twice?  please address other concerns as this will help your project to increase joiner and possible players .

anyway Good luck to your offering but also looking forward for positive reviews from players as I will glad joining if successful .

If he is serious about this project ? and wanted even more players in the future ? then he will be adding all that we put as concern .

I don't see how people can be attracted to play this game, and I'm not just saying this because of the OP's proposal, but because a game with only two outcomes is not entertaining and if you know you have a 50% chance of winning but you're only going to win 49.5% I don't know what you expect from the game. There are other more varied games that are more entertaining and even if the odds are always against you, you can access bigger jackpots (in exchange for winning less often).

I imagine that people who play this game expect to get something out of it by using the martingale.

Cool , maybe what we only need now is your activity here mate in answering this thread from time to time as your offered game seems to be easy and challenging .

I want some confirmation from other forum member that might play so may see the legitimacy of the game and the OP before i will join .

He can consider that but it's not urgent as he may think. The demand will still depend on his actual players and if they're too many that demands for it, he should really add it.
Well, it's bitcoin and it's always in demand and we all know that most casinos that are crypto based have it as their first choice and many don't even have LN but bitcoin.

What's the latest on this I checked the telegram bot and I'm not getting anything, it seems OP has taken it down, it's more of an experimental betting using telegram, I don't like telegram based groups much more betting run by a bot, there's a possibility of manipulation let's see if OP will create an upgrade or a new betting site he seems to be a good developer, I hope he can come up with a better one.

They have a verification tool, and that's great, but a verification tool doesn't make the site a provably fair one. Let me explain the problem. Users can't manipulate the client seed:


And since the server provides both seeds, then the game is not provably fair because those seeds could be tested before the runs to warrant a looser seed for the long run.

To make it a provably fair game, users should be able to change the client seed before the bet.

Thanks for this, hope people will not be lured thinking it's provably fair, they need to see this explanation. Not that good enough to see the techie stuff there but you surely doxxed the way how it works for this scheme from the OP. Much appreciated for diving on it @seoincorporation!

Since there are more than enough questions for OP, they should be answering all of them one by one. I’m surprised that they also do gambling on the telegram and more surprising is nobody else knows about it as far as above posts are considered. There should be proper justification on how Game works, what is the algorithm behind this which is making sure it’s probably fair. There is no tech so far which run in app game on blockchain technology. Reverse is also not true. To make the platform you will have generate entire seed on the blockchain in real time. How this is supposed to happen through telegram?

Yeah i also have the same experience , Maybe OP did not see any positive thoughts and response from the members so he has second thinking if Will going to continue or not lol.
but let us give him at least another time to restore this thread or come up with brand new idea , because in any places why telegram as we have so many bad experiences on this platform .

I've tested your bot. First suggestion: can you add a QR-code to the deposit feature? I use Telegram in a VM, and have a LN-wallet on Android.

Depositing works. The game works. Withdrawing says "Invoice is being paid.", but it doesn't arrive. The balance hasn't changed. LN sometimes can't find a route instantly, so I waited a bit. Then I tried another wallet, and it arrived after a few seconds. I think my own wallet was to blame, I couldn't send a small amount myself when I tried either.

No need to add altcoins, Bitcoin LN is fine. For anyone who hasn't tried Bitcoin LN yet: try it! Get a wallet, add a small amount, and enjoy low fees. Many instant exchangers and more and more "normal" exchanges offer LN withdrawals.

So you're saying the server could get a seed designed to only give "heads" or "tails"? That's possible, but if the server tries to cheat that way, you can also use it at your advantage so that makes it a risky game to play.

Dealing with untrusted people is what causes problems. Telegram itself isn't the problem, the platform works fine.

^ Betting site would be appropriate for the peace of mind for those who wanted to try, we know and a lot of many people know that the Telegram platform has a bad record, it has different fraudulent activities using this platform. Though the hash can be verified by the user there is a doubt about using this telegram bot, so that is why I also prefer to use it if there is a website not on Telegram.
Nevertheless, LoyceMobile comment above was right, just try it and I will try it later, good to see many platform using LN right now is the answer of what we are looking for the fastest BTC transaction.

The house edge is good and this is the first time I heard someone created a coinflip that is using telegram platform though I did see other gambling site uses different platform instead of creating its own website. I don't see any problem at all as long as it works fine or working correctly as stated. I like the idea addinf QR code as it could make deposit faster just by scanning the QR code. Welcome to Bitcointalk forum.

I guess the only problem that might arose is the trustworthiness of this. If ever that the OP would make this one an Open-source project published on github then I think we'll all see how fair this would really be. I won't really dare to try it at first but if others would take the risk then I'll just wait for their insights. Nevertheless, this thread is still new. Let's wait for further days or weeks until this became either Opensourced or trusted by many. (open-sourcing it still creates a huge trust)

They can do it for the first of few first flips but they can't keep doing it forever because of the nonce which gets incremented after each flip.
The operator (server) can exploit this in their advantage if they can analyse the bettors gameplay.
Besides, why do they need to generate a client seed in first place if the client can't customize it!

We can use it for our advantage but would be complex to survive in the long run with a seed that will win 150 flips from 500, if we push our luck we will find the point in the seed where 350 from 500 will win, But that would be a rude start.

It would be nice if OP could add a bet verification tool on his site and a page with full information about the bot.

Has anyone tried it?

I tried to see how it works. Although I have not deposit anything yet, it gave me a LN BTC address to deposit when I wrote
It would really be cool to see some screenshots on how it worked. Quite a unique way of developing a game. Many of use however a skeptical of only telegram channel only.

Great idea, you should do it :) Install BlueWallet, get 15 sats from lightningnetworkstores.com's faucet, deposit to this Coin Flip Telegram Bot, and screenshot everything :) It only takes a fraction of a cent to test.