Bitcoin Forum

This is not the first time that bitcoin miners have been shifting their holdings to exchanges and selling them off when the market has been dumping. According to the CrytoQuant chart, 5000 BTC was recently sent to Binance. Could it be the expensive production costs? I am aware that prices for taxes and electricity have recently increased dramatically. But there could be other reasons right?
 
The market appears to be controlled by a small group of people, which is the opposite of what bitcoin was about. However, this is the most perilous and terrifying bearish market I've seen since I invested in cryptocurrencies. Whales never cease selling their assets on exchanges. Everywhere sells panic.


Since it was first created, Bitcoin has repeatedly died a thousand times, but it has continued to exist. Will there be another round of "Bitcoin is dead" propaganda from the government and gold holders?

https://i.imgur.com/l5FjveM.jpg

I'm guessing nothing super major if the seller was smart enough to not dump it in one go. If anything, if sold on spot (through a sell offer, not dumped in one go), it would probably just give bitcoin a good amount of difficulty to go higher.

Or maybe they're going to do OTC.

We're going to hear "Bitcoin is dead" for years and years and years. Get used to it.

We’re in a bear market so this is to be expected. The price is going to be bearish for a couple of years now. Miners can’t continue to operate at a loss for long so they have to sell at certain points. Don’t worry about it, we’ll be back in a new bull market 2 years from now.

Similar things happened in 2018 if I'm not mistaken, during the bear cycle and everyone is selling including the miners to settle their bills perhaps.

And yeah, just a matter on how he/she is going to dump it, will it be in one go, or slowly so that it won't affect the market price is drastic way. I think the miners is smart enough not to do the former, or maybe OTC will be good.

Does 5000 BTC mean something in a market that had a volume of just under $29 billion in 24 hours - which would be about 1.4 million BTC? I would say it's a drop in the ocean that shouldn't change anything, although most need very little to panic...

---

That story never stops, it’s part of an anti-Bitcoin agenda that runs in the background and uses the mainstream media as its main tool to create public opinion. Given that all major media outlets are owned by only a few large global corporations, it is not difficult to conclude who is most bothered by Bitcoin.

Last but not least, miners will have more pressure to sell their Bitcoin that they received from mining recently. They sell it but they have yet capitulated. We must see a worse market and long period of unprofitable for miners to see capitulation.

When they can not cover their electricity mining cost, bank calls if they borrow to buy ASIC and some physical things to set up and mine Bitcoin, they will have to capitulate. Capitulation will appear before a new market. Market can not complete a bearish phase if most of people and miners are still healthy, feel positive and hopefully about the market.

$29B =1,450,000btc in 24 hours
         =60416.66 an hour
       ~=10k per 10 minutes
       ~=5k per 5 minutes
so if other sellers are doing 5k volume in 5 minutes. and a new seller throws 5k in that same 5 minutes.. thats doubling the sell pressure for that 5 minute session

however coins move every second
meaning an exchange volume per order is not 5k.
an exchange order per second is atleast 300x less then 5k
where roughly 16btc is moved every second.

now if someone was to have 5000btc as one lump in one order.. that impact is temporarily for that 1 second 300x more then the norm average market order

of course over 24 hours its not impactful. but if pushed through in 5 minutes or 1 second then its noticeable..
whats then in question:
how much that 1 second or 5 minute sell session impacts, and how will other people react after the fact.. well thats speculation

..
with all that said. the topic creator did not link a bitcoin transaction to show the claim of the topic.
in many topics of "whale alerts" showing large movements of over 1000 coins. it ends up not actually being a whale making a deposit. but instead the exchange itself just shuffling around its hot/cold wallets of funds it already had.

so was this actually a miner moving 5000 coins. or just another hotwallet shuffle by the exchange..
..
other things to add..
although if its shown to be the case of fresh mined coins being sent to an exchange. thre have been cases where those coins do not turn into exchange balance to then hit the market.
instead some actually use an exchange as a gateway to send funds to thousands of users(individual miners of the pool) without bloating up the blockchain with thousands of utxos
they instead send exchange database balance to their pool users exchange account. splitting up the coin, as coin allotments to the many thousands of exchange accounts. without needing a bitcoin transaction with thousands of utxo's

then its up to the individuals to choose what they do with their balance.

stupid again they mine and have to pay a fee to mine then sell it for under $20k which is ridiculous, why don't they sell it when it's $60k, just watch people freaking out selling cheap their bitcoins to big whales

If we just only based on this kind of scenario where some of the miners sell then provably we will see a dumped because people might get Fud on the actions made by them, but this really doesn't give much effect and I believe miners do this frequently so if there's something bearish season gonna happen I think this is made up by some manipulation attempts and not with the miners selling some of their stash.

most well organised pools do not throw large sums of coins into centralsied exchanges to put onto the market order book to get fiat to then pay their electric..
instead most organised pools have private contracts with OTC traders away from the exchange/markets.

this is where a negociated deal is set that a potential BTC buyer gets into an mutual agreement contract with a pool that the buyer will pre-pay either a 3month(quarter) or full year of electric rates with the asic farms electric supplier. and be awarded XXX coins at the end of the quarter no matter what the price volatility is. where by at the end of the quarter they negociate the asic farms profits or left over funds to be paid to the asic farm depending on circumstance.

major asic farms with efficient mining do not play to the whims of price movements. they have electric contracts pre-paid for 3-12 months ahead of time. so there is no point "switching off".
instead they just mine no matter what. their price per coin is also pre-set. months before. so again no need for them to panic..

the only ones that do panic are the smaller hobby miners that have more expensive electric costs and pay daily-weekly-monthly.. like many residential homes do. where they do have to watch the price more short-termly and cut losses quick if the price wont pay the electric that day/week

I don't think we should reach much into it.
Around 5,000+ bitcoins gets deposited into exchanges on a daily basis(https://twitter.com/whale_alert)

And whenever a whale tries to dump, they do it systematically. They stretch it out unless they have a dire need for cash.
Hopefully a nothingburger

I have the impression that it's you who's trying to spread "news" with potential to panic newbies.
As the others said, 5000BTC is not an amount that can make the markets go wild, especially if it's indeed from miners that try to cash in as good as they can.

Of course, there's no guarantee that the market won't go lower, but that's not because of only 5k.

Agreed on this but they might expecting something that will happened to cause a dump which miners do this kid of move as safety precautions to secure there profit. They are not hero of Bitcoin that willing to catch all the bullet when price dump and they will still hold. They are business and they have a lot of expenses to maintain there farm, They mine the Bitcoin on low price and difficulty so I’m sure they will not miss a chance to TP while price is still in 5 digits a piece.

Binance has an OTC market, Therefore, do not think that someone will send 5,000 bitcoins to be liquidated in the order book, and Binance does not deal with such orders at the current price, but rather an average price of bitcoin is agreed upon.

• What I'm trying to say is that OTC deals are executed at an agreed price, regardless of the current price.
• Therefore, if there was an effect, it would have occurred in the previous days and not now.

5000BTC will cause less than 1% change which is not a big deal

As to Bitcoin, there seems to be a growing concern that soon it can go less than $10K so we should not be wondering if miners are selling their hoards of the coin at the prevailing rate. Of course, this is can cause more pressures on BTC to go down...and there is nothing we can do about it. In 2017-2018 the same thing happened but this time it can be bloodier...and we are now seeing many "pretending to be strong' crypto-base platforms getting killed one by one. We are expecting more bad news on crypto because as the global economy is tethering towards great bad changes, the crypto industry is acting like its mirror instead of offering a good alternative - a big failure in my opinion.

Miners can only sell what they mine, and according to the current reward, a total of about 27 000 BTC (900 per day) can be mined in 1 month. Even if everyone miraculously joined forces and sold everything they mined, they would only harm themselves (at least in the short term) because they would bring down the price even more. I wouldn't say that they are so stupid as to do it that way, and that they certainly use OTC, and maybe virgin mined BTC has a premium price, so they profit that way too.


I understand the disappointment, but on the one hand, we can't talk about adaptation, and on the other hand, I guess we should keep Bitcoin under the glass bell away from all the negative influences? Also, keep in mind that big crashes have already happened in the past, but that Bitcoin has always come out stronger. Bitcoin is an alternative, but not one that is resilient to everything that happens in the world.

Many miners have no other option as to mine and instantly dump the coins, since they have to buy electricity and pay credits for their hardware etc.. The profit margin is a few percent that they then can keep in BTC if they want, after they paid for all their monthly expenses.

Honestly, these huge sell offs are always a thing whenever it's sent to exchanges. Not that new because even we're on a bull run, whenever a news like this comes off. It looks like things are always bearish when it's published. So, these miners, they sell whether it's on bearish or bullish and they're like us. And since it's all related to mining, I've read recently in a certain mining community that they're turning off their miners because it's not profitable for them as of the moment.

Inflation definitely affects miners as well and coupled with the downturn in economy some of them will be forced to plunge into their bitcoin reserves in order to survive and/or cover the losses.
The market doesn't appear to be controlled by a small group of people. Price action is just a reflection of market participants. The liquidity is quite shallow compared to other more mature markets so that's why we assist big, sharp dips.

The pressure of the miners could push the price lower, but the price will stabilize at one point as pressure lifts. These are just economic facts. Supply and demand. Do your dilligence and decide for yourself. Keep in mind that people have emotions. They can't control them. When they lose money, they panic. When they make a lot of money, they are enthusiastic, greedy and want to make more in fear of not missing out.

That's most likely following the next bitcoin halving in 2024? Can we at least anticipate 40k before the next bull run, even though I know it would be bullish? I don't believe we will see another 70k very soon if BTC doesn't go beyond 30k before the next halving

Another one? Or it's the same bitfarms?
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2022/06/21/miner-bitfarms-sold-almost-half-its-bitcoin-to-reduce-debt/


If 5k is a drop in the ocean, then how many bitcoins have been sold on top of the usual trade volume to crash the price from 30k to 17k?
5 million?  ;D
That volume made by bots trading 100 satoshis 300 times per minute is not something you can rely on, the only thing that could make things clear on the scale of the impact if we would know the amount of $ that is sent and withdrawn each day from those exchanges, knowing so what cushion we have that might offset a large sale.


Some miners have also purchased bitcoins, including the above-mentioned bitfarms or Mara who has also purchased 6000 coins through a subsidiary, or others who had received tons of money from the investors but since every single piece of gear was sold one year in advance they decided to invest some of the cash in BTC.
Everyone was focused on Salvador but mining companies in the US have bought 10 times more than them.

no one can tell exactly when next bullish will be experienced fully to the extent of reaching of 70k. If we are anticipating such that should be something that will manifest in years 2025 and 2026, because the level of bearish we are experiencing this time hold very strong and before it will break through maybe nothing serious will affect the market. I believe strongly that cryptocurrency market is going to rise as people expect in next three years coming, but we shall experience again 30k and 40k before this year and it will be rotating within such value until the year of 2022 runs out of the time

ay the miner send to binance pool or they sell off their bitcoin, if they only relocate the pool to binance that still fine but if they sell of their bitcoin are they gonna bankrupt their mining industry if we are using logic they might sell only couple bitcoin to cover up mining fees and try to get profitable from it not all in sell.

beside that 5000 BTC is whale transcation i saw it lot of times on whalebots

I get the same feeling.

Bitcoin miners create 6.25 Bitcoin every 10 minutes (give or take). That's 900 Bitcoin per day, and much more than 5000 Bitcoin in a week. Of course some/many of them sell some/much/all of the Bitcoins they create: they have bills to pay! And since most power companies and hardware suppliers don't accept Bitcoin, they'll need to exchange it for something else.
That's nothing new.

This is however what makes Bitcoin halvings so important: miners "drain" money out of the Bitcoin ecosystem by paying their hardware and electricity suppliers. Each halving means they have less Bitcoin to sell, which means this "drain" gets less every 4 years.

Halving events are all set by satoshi, we can not change it. Halving events are not new but just magic that every 4 years, we see halving effects.

Miners can be categorized as diamond miners with diamond hands; and speculative miners with very weak and soft hands. The type 2 miners usually sell most of their Bitcoin for monthly bills and in bear market, they will capitulate. After next halving, they will regret why they sold their Bitcoin in 2022 or previous years but they have no choice because of their leverage, bets on Bitcoin steady growth. Speculative miners usually can not resist against bear market.

I really don't know that information, but if you know how much BTC was sold to bring the price down to $17k feel free to share it ;)

I just wanted to say that 5000 Bitcoins is a number that doesn’t play a big role in price formation unless those 5000 BTC would belong to Mr. Mars or Saylor - then that would be a completely different story. Sometimes it doesn't seem to matter how much is sold/bought, but who is behind those transactions. I wonder if we might soon hear that someone bought a larger quantity of BTC at the current sale - or will it remain a secret until some better times?

Agree with this concern, The miners have suffered much more than the ordinary people because of the bitcoin dumping. Since their cost is so high,they will not hold bitcoin at the moment to minimize the loss. Normally they will be desperate to sell whatever the price. Already we have seen the reflection of that issue in the Binance Exchange. I think this is a normal process. The market may remain bearish for several years and will roar again.

Of course, I don't know the numbers but by telling on some information (that could be totally wrong), we could strat with the amount of bitcoins that have been sent extra to the cold hot wallets and cold wallets of exchanges during the drop, and the number shows only an increase of 100k in all coins stored on exchanges in the first two weeks of May (thanks Terra >:( )and a 70k uptick during the June drop. Of course, not all of these could have ended being sold and at the same time probably a lot that was stored there could have been the target of the sale, at the same time a lot of the accumulation of coins happened after the event when people were rushing coins there and on the same time a lot was rushing cash.

Anyhow, my point is that a lot underestimate what the instant liquidation of 5000 would have but hopefully this will never happen, as there is no point in it other than intentionally harming the market.


And while this halving stops miners from "draining" that much money it also halves the maximum possible security of the network.
So rather than that, I would say that the Bitcoin defense budget gets halved every 4 years.  ;D

Lol. The difficulty suggests otherwise.

Bruh common....
The difficulty alone as an indicator is meaningless when talking about security if you don't factor in the amount of money needed to overcome it.

At the start of 2017 the hash rate was 2Exa, was the network at that time 100 less secure than now?
At the start of 2015 the hashrate was 200Peta, was it 1000 weaker?

All that matter is the amount of money you must spend to overcome it,
A while after Bitmain released the S9 you would only need 300 000 machines for a 51%, at of 2000$ a piece at launch, 600 millions.
To do this now you would need 2 million S19, at a cost of 6000, 12 billion.That's only 20x. Price went from $500 to 20k that's 40x..... Hmm, a halving.  ;)
How many times do you think BTC will be able to do a 20x? <insert extrapolation joke here>

Or let's see it in BTC, you needed 1.2 million BTC, now you need 600k BTC

That's easy too: the (dollar) value of Bitcoin has gone up much faster than halvings reduce the mining profit, so miners still earn more now than they did years ago.

If you have that much mining power, being honest is more profitable than pulling a 51% attack. It might become an issue far in the future, when the block reward is negligible, but by then it will depend on the total transaction fee per block (which may be much larger by then).
It's not something I worry about :)

The pressure of miners could push the price lower, this right. Any pressure coming from major holders (whales, miners etc) will continue to pull the price lower. So it means that we need some effects, news, efforts that will stop bitcoin from going more low or drastically reverse it to bull. Who or which institution will do it for bitcoin at this daring time?
Something needs to be done so that the enemies of bitcoin will not be push it more down the drain.

I'm sane enough to understand where 5000 BTC would be in this market right now. Yes, it's a big amount, but not really when it comes to impact. In this market, there are tons of whale shark deals that on such a scale can cause additional confusion. The current situation has been bleak as many coins have dropped in price since hitting ATH, but the next dumping issue I am looking at is the worsening economic situation, not an easy recovery.

Days later and no dip. Money sent to exchanges means nothing.

Some sources even suggest that exchanges were buying the dip with their own money. Of course they deny it, but there's an issue.
https://forkast.news/headlines/binance-buy-bitcoin-founder-changpeng-zhao/

Chain analysis shows that balance on exchanges did not change. When someone sends their own coins to an exchange it affects the glassnode chart, but the chart showes something completely different. The balance on exchanges keeps falling and there was no increase when binance added them to their address.

A large part of the bitcoin market is wash trading. You're trading against exchange bots buying and selling their own coins and all charts including the mentioned balance on exchanges confirms it.
Karpeles was doing it, Chinese exchanges like OkCoin and Huobi were doing it in 2014 before they got caught by the authorities. I'm willing to bet exchanges are still cheating, they just got much better at it.

the word dead is always spoken for BTC, but in fact BTC is always there even though there is a turbulence in value.
I think you have a goal so that beginners don't enter the market and create panic in beginners, try to be positive and get used to the situation that is happening to btc

And what do you think when the miner deposited that 5,000 BTC into Binance also has the same thinking? Whale, shark or whatever small fish in the pond as well. This is what set the market in bearish mode with any sign that seems normal could be interpreted as the next dip, a new low -> more sellers than buyers and more volatility. Just like this thread.

It seriously casts a doubt if we need some kind of buffer against this free fall. All those people who mined bitcoin are transferring their assets to few richies and god knows what these people will intend to do in future, will they dump our coins, or will they transform it into something more into a centralized  alternative non government economic system. I have decided to stay put with my investments so far, I have full faith in the potential of bitcoin and it will rise again sooner than later

And then? You understand what the message means here, but the person who panicked last time was not me. Furthermore, I myself feel very safe with what I am holding. One thing that I have noticed after many years in this market is that when the bear market happens, news like this is always everywhere. It is not wise to deny the current economic situation. More realistically, profit is not for all when opportunities are given to us a lot but people cannot afford to take them.
In general, prices reflect how things are really going, one-sided inferences and create arguments that bring knowledge as well as confusion. Experience more so as not to blindly follow the news you read. There is a lot going on in this space.

You do realize that maybe they sent their Bitcoins to exchanges to make a Long trade with BTC as the margin?
It's not always about selling. On-chain data is not refined at all and is mostly very misleading. I would try to avoid looking at it as it gives wrong hopes.

Why do I never hear that in bull markets?

What happens with Bitcoin happens with other financial assets, and the stock market, for example, there are people who have more money, buy more and their movements influence the market more. But when those movements drive the price up, nobody complains.

If Bitcoin had stayed at "what was about" it would be a thing of a dozen cyberpunks using it to exchange goods and services between themselves and I doubt very much that the price would have gone over $1. Getting to $69k and beyond brings this: people with a lot of money putting a lot of money into it. And if they sell, the price goes down. Just like leveraged positions, which make the price go up faster but also faster down when they get liquidated.

5000BTC is some huge amount for sure and could cause some impact to the market. Given the fact that the market is already at its dip, they don't stand to gain so much from this but, they would gain non the less. What I don't understand is,
Are you saying these whales have got a group, like a corporation that gets to agree and do this at once or its something that happens based on individual perceptions of the times by themselves.

Well there would always be government, gold holders and antibitcoins who sees bitcoin for a threat to all they stand for and would always promote the FUD less they find a common ground. Those who take them seriously will still do until they grow up.