Bitcoin Forum

I decided yesterday morning that I would buy 1 bitcoin from this dip market. But I did not have enough money.  With which I can buy 1 bitcoin. I had an Fixt Deposit of $ 6,000 in the central bank. And the bank would paying interest at the rate of 5.5% APR. I broke it down yesterday and decided to buy Bitcoin with that money. But with this money I will not be able to buy 1 bitcoin.  On the other hand, my dream and desire is to buy 1 bitcoin. I then decided to take a loan and applied to the bank for a loan. But I told the bank that I would use this money for business. The bank agreed to give me a loan of $10,000 at 10% APR interest. I take advantage of that opportunity and take out a loan. And the remaining $ 4,000 I borrowed from my uncle and promised to pay him 8% APR interest, which is more then bank interest. Finally i bought just now 1 BTC price at $20,000. It gives me a different feeling That feeling I have never had before. I think if I hold this bitcoin for 2 years I can get 100% -500% profit. Then I will be able to easily repay my debtors with an average interest of 18-19% in 2 years as an average of 9.something% APR and I will be able to keep a huge profit.

Taking loans to buy a volatile asset is a dumb idea. Why not just buy in slowly using your hard-earned money from your job/business? You don't need to have 1 full bitcoin literally right now, it's not like the price is going to skyrocket overnight and that you're going to be left out.

P.S. I hope you're using a hardware wallet

I find is an extremely risky move. Of course, it may pay off. But I hope that you have a backup plan in case bitcoin price doesn't go as expected in the next 2 years.
And yes, make sure you have very safe means of storage for your newly acquired coins: hardware wallet or even safely (offline) generated seed or private key; and the backup/recovery should also be safe and offline.
Best of luck!

This is a great story. I like investment in bitcoin every time. Now bitcoin price too low. It is drop around -70% from ATH. so, this is not bad idea to invest in bitcoin now. Good luck Op for take a high risk and bought bitcoin by borrowing money. Hope your dream will success. Since you want to hold it for a long time.  So use a hardware wallet to hold it. It will give your extra safety.

Yes i am using Hardware Wallet. Since I'm holding a full of bitcoin.  And i bought it with borrowed money.  So I have to take care of it a lot. So I saved it in a hardware wallet. As if one is not stolen in any way. The rest is my luck

as @mk4 has already pointed out, this is a risky business even at the supposedly lower price...
the general principle also applies to BTCitcoin: only invest money that you can do without.

Good speculation to predict Bitcoin price will increase 100%-500% in the next 2 years, where's the solution if Bitcoin price will decline 50%-80% from the current price right now in the next 2 years? You need to think about this since there's no guarantee the market will goes like your prediction.

I'm not a risk taker person, so all of my decision always have a risk that I can solve if my prediction goes wrong and yeah, I almost not regret with my decision since there's no risk that will ruin my life.

Yeah, wish you'd not done that. mk4 might be harsh but he's right, it's a dumb idea. Gold I'd agree, but even then 10% APR? You're heavily in debt now and gambling. I'd just liquidate, pay off the debts early and look this up:  Dollar Cost Average.

Work hard, advance your career, live your life, and build up a Bitcoin savings with money leftover from salary. It's slower but with the next rally probably a couple of years away, you'll have a chance to get that 1 BTC easily.

I mean, a bank actually allowed you to borrow $10k. That means you're earning well.

I also had this desire but I follow the first rules of trading and that is "invest as much as you can afford to lose". So this desire :'(. But I can feel yours feeling that In the future you can say that you owned a bitcoin. It is also very risky, on the but it can also be profitable.  I hope you make a profit,  I also hope you don't have to be like Luna holders (sui ****), no offense please. ::)

After seeing this post, those who have awakened this desire this topic is for them:

While I give you credit for being courageous for loaning just to buy bitcoin. This is not really a good idea with those interest rates that you'll pay. But if you're able and you've got somewhere else to be spent for paying the loan with the interest and not just going to rely on the profit that you're expecting within the next years of projection with 1 bitcoin's profit, then that's better. But if you're going to rely on it, much better that you just did a DCA strategy rather than taking a loan to buy bitcoin. Still, anyway, good luck and hope to see you in the blooming days again and wishing you repay all of those debts of yours.

You are a risky person, smartaction. You owe everyone you can to buy 1 bitcoin and this story gives me conflicting thoughts. Why were you willing to go into debt at high interest when you could buy parts of bitcoin as soon as free money appeared? Undoubtedly, bitcoin price is now cheap and this may continue for some time, which would allow you to gradually accumulate the amount of 1 bitcoin you want. I don't condemn you in any way and even consider your act commendable, because your faith in bitcoin is much higher than those who, even with money, still don't buy it in anticipation of a better price or other pretexts. I hope your act will be a reproach to such people.

All the best with your investment! But taking out loan at such a high percentage for a super volatile asset like bitcoin, is a stupidity to be honest. While I want you to get over this loan quickly enough, but if you rely on the price of bitcoin to repay the loan, the time horizon will get extended by 4 - 6 years.

Honestly, I wouldn't have taken out loan for such investment. Rather I would have invested over a period of time to acquire one bitcoin.

Congratulations for owing one BTC for the first time, it must feel very good knowing you are among those who owns one BTC. however i think it is a little too risky to take funds from the bank especially perhaps your uncle will be a little more understanding, it is always advisable to invest what we can afford to lose in crypto investment. But seeing the price of btc this cheap anyone will be tempted to buy even if it means taking out a loan from the bank to do so. Good luck with your investment, in about a year or two when the market fully recovers you will be very happy with your bold step.

Accumulating smaller fractions over time is also what I would have suggested if you had asked this question before having invested in real. But assuming you did all this in real nothing more can be done at this juncture. I hope you were not high during taking this decision.

That nice feeling you are having is temporary and it will not comfort you when you run out of liquid cash at hand which I assume you are already lacking, hence the loan.

Still I hope you make some money from this investment plan. But taking a loan would be the one thing I would never suggest a fellow bitcoiner to do.

My suggestion would be once bitcoin rises, sell the asset at profit and cash out, payback the loan once you are breaking even or profiting, rethink your strategy.

Imagine taking a loan to buy the most volatile asset in the biggest marketcap's. Not a good idea at all, I will call it a Greed move.
You might end up like 3AC or some other company that got liquidated but the difference will be that you will be having no money to pay back the loan as the market is going to range sideways for the next 2 years.

Taking loan with higher APR paying and try to buy bitcoin, did you think good ideas? do you have planning how to pay Bank loan every month? I think too risk when you try taking loan and use for investing with bitcoin actually bitcoin still on dip price, I think you don't have daily income except as bitcoin investor and you look not use loan for scalping trade, how ever you need money every month to pay bank loan and exactly with your family you have to pay them several months later. What happen if next time bitcoin price drop and do you have other planning for recovery and paying bank loan? before late you have think again what happen next time if your investment exactly with bitcoin not profitable.

If i was at your place, i would not have taken loan to buy bitcoin but i won't say that you took a wrong decision. The only reason i like your decision is that you bought bitcoin at lowest prices and there is very likely that bitcoin will keep going up from this point.

I always heard that taking loan to buy crypto is not a good decision but now after seeing your story i am tempting to get a loan too for myself and buy bitcoin. Should i also do the same?

Investing in Bitcoin during a dip market is good, and $6k could buy a decent part of BTC at its current price. Taking a loan to buy even more, and also borrowing money from a relative, and aside from the loaned amounts having to pay interest rates is.... risky. Congrats on 1 BTC, but how soon are you supposed to start making payments on that loan you got, and how soon does your uncle expect those $4k + interest?
I do agree that 2 years will probably be enough time for Bitcoin to recover and for you to get 3x-5x profits, but there's also a risk it'll take longer, and does your loan not require any payments for the full 2 years?
And as many pointed out, it's a very risky decision. This situation breaks the rule of only investing what you can afford to lose.

I am in debt myself after recent crashes, but I got a steady source of income from multiple sources.
I would advise investing your money in some biz instead of keeping it locked. Sell something on amazon(or its equivalent). [Make sure you don't get into competitive keywords. Stick to new viral niches in your country. Start small. Test the water first.]
At least this way, things will be under your control and you will be taking a manageable risk.

If you need other biz ideas, check what's trending on Google in your country. Run an ad on it by selling related service/goods. Just don't keep it locked as bitcoin, it's not your money.

Great. Because no offense, but using a hardware wallet is the best you could do for doing such a reckless move finance-wise. I doubt it, but I really hope this goes really well in your favor; like seriously if you were a sibling or close friend of mine I'd be furious at you right now. Best of luck, you're going to need it. Never do this again.

What the OP did by buying BTC when the price fell was the right move, but I think that taking a loan will obviously cost the OP later, especially if the market crashes, I think it's better to invest with cold funds or indeed the money we have ourselves without having to be associated with anyone else because even if the market crashes we don't have to have the burden of returning other people money later.

OP, you really like taking risks, and you can call yourself a gambler. You have already mentioned that the loan was rather unreasonable, but now almost the whole world lives in debt. I sincerely wish you good luck. In a falling market, we see a lot of tearful stories, and your step can be called a step against the wind and a lot of faith in your luck. May you be lucky. It really sounds nice when you own a whole bitcoin.

Almost everything in my life is derived from cryptocurrency. My life is managed by crypto.  I have earned a lot of money from crypto and also lost a lot of money in crypto. I've lost about $50k this year. However, all these dollars were earned from cryptocurrency. The big loss has now turned my mind to stone. So now I am not afraid to take big risk. But I don't think Bitcoin will disappoint me.

At first glance what you say is true, but if the OP doesn't feel burdened by a loan, then it's also not wrong even though buying Bitcoin with as much money as possible is a good solution and considers it an investment in the future with the hope of increasing prices in the market again. Because borrowing when the price of Bitcoin is cheap also has a very big risk for those who borrow when the price of Bitcoin starts to increase again.

Good luck, although it seems risky to borrow money with high interest to buy bitcoin but I'm sure the end will be happy, when bitcoin rises to a new high you will be able to fully return your debts and make high profits, this risk is worth the experience and the feeling is irresistible when you own 1 bitcoin, sure Many people, especially family, will blame you for this adventurous act, but I'm sure they will discover later how right you were and your insight into the future. I hope you keep it well and I wish you success in your adventure.

Never invest money you cannot afford to lose.

Even if you are sure Bitcoin will keep on increasing (which nobody knows for sure :)) there are still other dangers like hacks or failing exchanges...

Apart from that I understand the urge for complete coins  :)

Keeping the debt move aside, I believe you made a good investment.  Based on Bitcoin history if ever it repeats itself, your Bitcoin will be sitting on a $100k+ value in 2 to 3 years' time.  That is enough motivation to take a huge risk and enough to pay your debt with huge extra.  Besides, I don't think you will do that move without extra precautions, as you stated you earn big with crypto and lost big in it too.  If you make proper risk management in your future endeavor and be able to remove the losses, I believe you can pay your debt even without touching your newly bought BTC.  Good luck and I hope that all goes well.

That’s a great one OP. Am so happy for you for taking this bold step of buying bitcoin. I had always wish to get some bitcoins too to save for better days, I wish I had even little dollars now to purchase some no matter how little. I feel one need to just take the risk against the future when the bitcoin price will skyrocket again. My fear is borrowing money to buy the bitcoin, I don’t like being in debt because I won’t have rest of mind. You’ve taken a good step and I pray its all in your favour at the end.

It is always stated that we should use what we could afford to loss. Taking a loan from a bank and also going thus far to borrow from your uncle sounds funny though but I commend you for your courageous and bold step. I know you have made your decision before that step you took but you should know that the market is very volatile and no one can predict the next market move. Though it's very much Risky to have gone this far. So what if your expectations of return goes beyond 2years of expectancy and Bitcoin is still down, what would you do about it? Would you sell or just hold and look for a way to pay back your loan or you appeal for debt cancellation.

It really is a bold initiative, you have made such a big decision through a lot of adversity. I know that if you can hold it for long tram it will definitely bring success but will increase the amount of your interest which may seem impatience to you some times. If you collect your money from own source (not borrowing) i will fully corroborate you in this regard.

How does such a replay answer?


https://i.postimg.cc/xCxtW7Wv/Screenshot-20220630-195305.jpg

You're totally crazy and the people supporting what you've done are even crazier. It is a very high risk investment. It makes no sense to borrow from relatives and banks to take risks in this uncertain market. Unfortunately, much of this dip is due to people who got into debt and had to sell because they were scared and afraid.

Obviously you can profit a lot from this. But you have to be very strong to keep holding on to this dip.

On one hand you did great OP by buying bitcoin  and not some altcoin. You also chose good buying in at over 70% discount, which should reduce the risk of losing money to a minimum.
On the other hand, you took a loan and interest can be different in 2 years if the inflation keeps rising. Remember that banks can renegotiate your deal if the economy takes a huge hit and also, your fiat will be worth less, so you won't have other choices but to sell bitcoin and take a loss or sell some other property to pay the bank.

1 Bitcoin is just a number. You don't need that much. What if you had 0.5?
I feel like you're chasing profits because you're giving yourself a timeline of 2 years. What if nothing happens by then? Will you consider bitcoin a bad investment?

You're like those guys who invest in bitcoin because they have something to buy and they say to themselves" next halving I'm getting a corvete because I have to show off to my friends! Since bitcoin can reach 100k after the 2024 and my dream car costs 70k, therefore I need 0.7 BTC at $100k to cover that, so I'll take a lonan, buy 0.8 BTC, 0.1 will cover the fees and the rest is for the car"
Plans like that rarely work and then you fall into depression.

Don't expect anything, consider the money lost already, stop following the price and just live your life.

When the price was down in 2018 and 2019 I kept living my life and just accumulating bit by bit from signature campaigns and it paid off. I'm doing the same thing now. No loans, no trading, just holding until something good happens and something will eventually happen. If not this year then in 3 years.

He has money on his own and it was only 6k usd but his goal is to buy 1 btc so that wasn't enough. He can surely make more money without needing to borrow from someone but that could take time and maybe the moment he collected a total of 20k, the price of btc isn't 20k anymore but it can be higher than that so for him its wise to just borrow money or he might miss this once in a lifetime opportunity.

We have been in this bear for a long time so I think that op made a good timing there. He also feels that the bear can't last any longer but the bull will now take its place and he can sell and repay the loan before the interest rates gets bloated.

what people need to be successful in cryptocurrency market is to acquire the courage and wisdom, it is a big risk for to borrow money for investment in cryptocurrency so I know quite well that cryptocurrency on it own is having a marker challenge which whoever that invested in cryptocurrency right now will absolutely make a reasonable profit if it hold for long time but it's not encouraging as a beginner in any investment to borrow and invest because of it's advantage. I know that through your statement you are not in support of borrowing money to invest because two things are involved into it either lost or profit.

Many people had a different story and strategy for the bitcoin.The story related to the loss,profit and life changing momentum by the bitcoin.Inad all this in my story times.When the price of bitcoin had crossed the 50k hustle,I had gained more from the crypto currency.Then I had used the same money for the employment of the business.When I had build up good business idea and strategy,I had gained huge profit from it.

Congratulations mate for your acquisition of 1 full Bitcoin, owning 1 Bitcoin and above have always been my dream and it still is until am able to achieve to it, though with my hard earned money and not by means of borrowing, getting a loan most especially from the bank to invest in Bitcoin is rather too risky, though i know we all have to take some risk if we must hit it big, but on other hand, you have to think of what might happen if things end up not happening the way you planned it, what you stand to loose, one have to put all this into consideration before deciding if getting a loan is indeed a good option.
I want to personally believe you've thought about all this before you proceeded with a loan request from your bank and your uncle?, Anyways, congratulations once again and goodluck.

It's a brave decision. It is not easy to make this decision, especially since investing in Bitcoin has a fairly high risk. However, if you look at Bitcoin's journey so far, this bearish time is indeed one of the best times to buy Bitcoin. At least we can believe that the price of Bitcoin can rise again in the next bullish period. This doesn't guarantee 100%, but if it's in accordance with the cycle, won't it be bullish after the Bitcoin halving later?
I personally also plan to buy Bitcoin on a DCA basis, especially when BTC starts to drop below $20k.

I want to congratulate you for owning 1 BTC because its a milestone that not every bitcoiners can achieve. However, the way you accumulate your BTC by taking a loan is quite risky. Its not advisable to take loan to use for investment regardless of how good or profitable the investment is. Like what others have been said, you can buy little by little instead, using your own money.

But its been done already so I just hope everything will turn out well. It would be best now if you have a real job to earn stable income, it can help for you to pay your loan somehow or even the interest atleast, just incase. Because we cant predict how long it will take before this bearish season is completely over.

wow wow wow calm damn sir take a deep breath and think again  :D I mean look at your username @smartaction  :D 8) Taking a loan and putting entire savings to buy a whole bitcoin is a very aggressive move :o if this has already happened you should take care of yourself. i mean I want it to have whole bitcoin is very shining tho. but you don't need to take a loan and like other said you can just buy a half or quarter bitcoin and it still a big achievement 

Of course you have felt something you never had before, but for sure you will have more interesting feeling once bitcoin fails you.
Yeah  bitcoin proves us everything, it grows every 4 years but remember that we are in crypto world  and nothing assured us constantly so better watch out mate.
And never forget to Not taking a lone for crypto investment.

I hate to say this but applying for a loan on bank for the purpose of buying Bitcoin is a bad and very risky idea. I just don’t know what are the terms that you have with the bank in paying back the loan, but it would be much worse if either BTC would go down even further and tread water for a long time.

There are no promises or guarantees if BTC can give you 100% to 500% profit in 2 years as you said. I just don’t know how confident are you in this, but I am sorry loaning for the purpose of buying 1 Bitcoin is not a good idea at all. If I were in your shoes, I wouldn’t do it and just only invest an amount that I can afford to lose no matter what. By the looks of it in your financial status, I don’t think you are ready to afford losing $20k. Unless you are making $20k a month, for sure you can afford. 

I believe that you have taken a very dangerous investment even though I believe in bitcoin's potential. If you were to invest into something, in my opinion it would be better if you use money you can afford to lose, not something that you have to take a loan. It will just add to the risk of this volatile cryptocurrency.

Despite that, I hope you succeed in this venture!

Although taking a loan from a bank is a big risk for me, I was ready to take that risk.  So I took out a loan and bought Bitcoin.  However, I have full confidence in Bitcoin so I am not afraid yet. I am now fighting with my luck.

This is a great job for you. But what you have done is very risky. You should not buy Bitcoin with a loan from a bank. You could buy bitcoin with your own money. Maybe you could not buy full 1 bitcoin. But it did keep you out pressure of loan. Since you've already done it.  Now just wait for the day you decide to sell your bitcoin. Good luck, Always be healthy and unconscious

I don’t think that taking out a loan for investment is a wise idea. Even though bitcoin is a potential cryptocurrency you shouldn’t have taken such a big risk. Insead you should have bought bitcoins in fraction from your own money.

Congratulations mate , I myself dreamed of having a 1 whole Bitcoin as well ,  but because of Gambling and I really doubt that happened to me from then.

I regret all of those because if not? i may have not only 1 bitcoin , maybe at least 5 bitcoin all in all.

So please OP keep this coin , never let you lose because there are so much you to expect because your Loan is still existing .

I think this is the best reply of the thread.

These things don't usually end well. People only think about the profit they are going to make, and don't take into account the risk and psychological uneasiness that comes with having a debt for an investment with such volatility. I hope it's not the OP's case but it wouldn't be unusual for there to be a market downturn now, the price drops to $14k or so, and the OP panic sells.

Very interesting story mate, I read it twice and I thing I which conclude is that, there is no need to take loans whichever the business you are gonna start. Lets take it positive, just gather you hand earn gradually and with a very small investment. No need to even think about bigger business if you don't have your bag full.

This is a very smart move to buy 1BTC at dip from ATH, base on the current price, without looking at the risk involved to borrowed money from the bank and uncle with the interest rate involved to pay back base on the period agreed on, but nevertheless using your initial capital worth of $6000 without borrowed is the best, for a long term investment.   

Not only about good advice, but for $6000 is a very fantastic start-up capital in terms of buying Bitcoin at this time even though can't get 1 unit of Bitcoin, but it is very enough to invest in conditions like now with great confidence. Because with that $6000 capital someone can already get 0.29 BTC at this time and that is a very extraordinary thing in my opinion.
https://i.imgur.com/OJqmVNK.jpg (https://www.google.com/search?q=%246000+to+Bitcoin)

You are very brave and risky, as you have been called many times. It deserves praise and respect. Your confidence in bitcoin could serve as an example for many. Especially for those who are still in doubt whether to buy or not to buy it. A loan, of course, creates an additional burden and obligations, along with a constant feeling of discomfort due to the fact that debts will have to be repaid sooner or later, and even with interest. But I think if you're so confident and ready to fight your luck, you should be able to handle it all.

The most interesting thing is that everyone has their own stories. At the same time, it should be understood that there are quite a lot of negative stories now, because obviously no one expected the current price.

Confidence must also be supported by good technical analysis skills, if you only rely on confidence but can't read the market it will only be a guessing game. It is quite risky to make a loan to invest in bitcoin, because of the debt that must be paid in installments within a certain period of time and the interest that continues to run.
Plans to profit from loans will turn into new problems with loans that have to be repaid, remember that crypto is very volatile and any risk can occur.

We don't necessarily buy 1 bitcoin to hold,  you can accumulate bitcoins over time if you don't have enough money to buy 1 bitcoin right now. Even though you can afford to repay the debt,  I disagree with you in your decision to taking loans for the purpose of buying bitcoin. Our lives don't always go as smoothly as we think, so borrowing money to invest can sometimes be stressful. There is a lot of risk here, I hope you have made specific calculations when making this decision.

hi, OP; +1
There is a phrase or old conjecture that says: "who came first the chicken or the egg?" everyone will have doubts about it.

Let's not go into detail that if you already have a HW, this HW is not necessary, etc.

Any way at all! I am with you, congratulations, you are an older man, these are your decisions, we cannot see the glass always half full with certain assessments that may be questionable.

You made an investment to the BTC unit, you completed the 100 million sat. I hope your investment planning is successful.

I don't think taking a loan to buy bitcoin is a good idea because that way will have risks after you receive the money. Bitcoin is still in a fluctuating moment in the market and we don't know how long this will be over. I just hope you repay your bank's interest so you can continue to live and not depend on other people. But if using that way can give you a chance to buy bitcoin at a low price, you must be careful and not try to get a loan because you can get a problem after this. Yes, the potential of the increases and decreases in the price can help you to have 1 bitcoin but you need to be patient don't take a loan from anybody because you know about the risk behind that.

This is not investing, this is gambling. This is no different than shorting stocks except you have at least have a maximum amount of funds that you can lose.


Seems awfully unethical, doesn't it? Lying to the banks about a business plan you have when you throw the money in crypto instead? The interest calculation would have been different if you told the bank the truth.

Perhaps if you had told them the truth they wouldn't have given you the loan?

I don't know why I find this story so weird. In as much as I am very much sure that owning 1btc is a good business and you will never regret it, but the huddles that you passed through to own the 1btc doesn't really worth it.

Maybe I am just being me here. If you have a nice source of income, an initial investment of $6k is not bad, I wonder why you acted as if there was gun on your head.

I would not be able to live a debt life for two years in order to make massive profits, especially when it involves investing in a volitile assets. Let's assume your story is real, then assume that btc goes to $10k, what will be your state of health?

Don't source loans for risky endeavours within your family. I'll tell you from experience that most of the time this will end up bad for your relationships.
You do know that 10% APR will cut your loan in half after 5 years?

Even if Bitcoin in 2 years you will still only make a 80% profit --> that is 40%/year with quite some risk on your side. What if Bitcoin does not double in 2 years? Can you digest the loss and service the debt burden? In other words you need to have a contingency plan. If you can't easily cover the loan rates from your income, then you should redo the math.

Also keep in mind that you don't need to own one whole Bitcoin in order to profit from a potential market appreciation. 0.01 is enough if that's what you can afford at the moment. Don't stretch yourself too much or you're gonna get burned.

I don't know if what the OP did was too bold or a bad move, because owing someone else to invest in something as volatile as bitcoin is definitely not the right move, investing in bitcoin is a good move if we have the funds cold or personal, but by borrowing other people money we will only increase fear when the market goes down like this especially when the debt is due, I agree with you, it's better to invest $6K with the money we have and at least we can sleep no matter what the conditions happend, rather than of having 1 BTC, but we are overwhelmed by fear and trouble due to debt.

To borrow money from a relative is somehow better, because the deal can be re-negotiated friendly if something goes wrong, but the worst part of this story is to be in debt with the bank. They are going to charge 10% annually for the loan! And there aren't any guarantees bitcoin will double its price soon, but he will have to repay the loan without any excuses, with or without profit from bitcoin fluctuations.

In my opinion it's one of the biggest mistakes someone can commit in financial world. Banks' loans aren't an option because they are abusive, treacherous in case you don't repay them on time and give no real benefits to the borrower after all. It's better to not have money to invest or invest low amounts of money than contracting a debt with a bank.

Wow! I do admire your courage in taking out a loan just to buy bitcoin. However, according to me, this is not a wise decision.

If you have another source of income, it would be preferable to use it to pay off the debt rather than rely solely on the profit you anticipate from one bitcoin over the course of the upcoming years. However, if you're going to rely on it, it would be much better if you used a Dollar-cost averaging strategy as opposed to taking out a loan to buy bitcoin. Under DCA, you could have divided the total investment amount and purchased the crypto asset in intervals.

 I wish you luck and hope you pay off all of your debts.

Exactly, we can buy half of Bitcoin if that is the only amount that we can afford to buy without borrowing money. In fact, we can add more if we already have spare money just for the sake of not compromising our finances.  
It should be important to consider how to pay these debts and bank loans before we decide. We even don't know when the market recover so we can pay our loans. Maybe, at least having an additional source of income could help and be considered as a backup in case the bear season stays long.

Well, it has been done already, that was the choice of OP. Only we wish him success in his crypto journey.

Sometimes we see bitcoin as a business or an investment that will end next month. I have made some mistakes when I was a newbie in this crypto market. I have bought unnecessary coins due to FOMO and I lost in all. I have done so many bad investments, but my happiness is that I have learnt my lessons.

I have learnt that another opportunity will still come. Who thought bitcoin would be as cheap as it is today. If I miss the opportunity, another one will come. The simple truth is that no one would be super rich with bitcoin again. If you are not an early adopter, you can only have money to fit your bills but you cannot be super wealthy.

So you just bought a whole bitcoin taking loans "hoping" that the price will go up by 100% to 500% within 2 years? Lol, sorry to say but you made a huge mistake. What if the price goes down back to $10,000 within 2 years? You would lose a lot plus you will have to repay the loans and the interest that has accumulated over the years. You might want to extend those loan period, and even if the price did go up a little, you will end up paying a lot in  interest. Why take such risks? Why do you have to hold one whole bitcoin? Why not invest slowly and only as much as you can?

Great story but buy bitcoin with loan money it is high risky. I never support it. You say $6,000 is your own money. You should have bought Bitcoin with your own money. It is not mandatory to buy a full of bitcoin. Since you already bought it.  In that case now there is nothing left but to say good luck to you. Hopefully you will be able to get to your destination.

You have learnt such incidents in your real life which was a dangerous situation where both profit and loss could be huge. You have won this decision. Because now the price of Bitcoin is a bit higher than your buy price. But still I think it was a risky investment. If the bitcoin price went down further, you were more likely to lose money.

100% agree with this. You don't have to force things by loaning if you can't afford 1BTC. You can save and allocate enough funds from your hard-earned money to buy Bitcoin until you complete 1Bitcoin. It's better to use your own hard-earned money than to take loans because the volatility of Bitcoin is too unpredictable and we don't even know when will it recover. Slowly but surely would be better than forcing things that you aren't yet to afford.

He doesn't have to pursue his desire to buy 1 bitcoin, but just $6k from the funds he has to buy bitcoins for the long term without using other borrowed funds, because any type of loan funds even without APR interest payments is also very risky for long-term investments even if there are agreement but the decision may change depending on the borrower (his uncle).

What OP have done is really a risky try, but a person who have confidence and believe in bitcoin only can do this. Only thing that fears me is the loan. If OP could engage himself in regular buying and selling practice, surely he can finish his loan and settle the borrowed money. If not, for a long time he needs to hold and pay the periodic interest. There is regular price fluctuation and this can be used as an opportunity. This too have got risk, but the same could make him get out of the loan at the earliest.

I do think that as a rule of thumb, you should never take out a loan and use it on a volatile asset. Due to the nature of loans, they are demandable upon the due date or the maturity of the loan regardless of your financial status. This means that when the maturity date comes, it becomes an absolute obligation on your part to furnish the necessary capital to pay it out.

The reason behind this rule is due to the fact of the nature of cryptocurrencies. No one really knows when their prices will rise especially in this given market. Who know that maybe 5 or even 10 years where the next ATH hits.

I assume most of people here who owns +BTC1 and who joined relatively late and was unable to mine using asics, collected the BTC1 progressively without taking the risk of defaulting loans mainly. That might take years obviously but you will end up by collecting it.
My advice is to try to pay back your loans as soon as possible even if it requires to sell a part from that BTC1 when the price increases..

I also don't seem to support the steps the OP is taking in buying bitcoins with borrowed money. I don't think it's good for our psychology, I don't expect to pay interest on the profits the OP expects. That's the same as you get a profit because the results from that we allocate to repay the loan. If I were in the OP's position I'd rather buy some bitcoins than have to take out a loan.

As Op story, op bought bitcoin as price as $20000 for 1 bitcoin. Now bitcoin price is $21k+ It's mean op now in 1k+ usd profit. In my opinion he should sell her some bitcoin and repay his bank loan. Because bank loan with high interest is too much risk. He shouldn’t keep his loan soo long. This could put him in danger in the future.

Yes everyone is giving the text book advise to the OP that we should not buy bitcoin with the borrowed money. However sometimes if you take the risk you may get a lot of profit. But still you need to understand the consequences of doing all this and if it goes wrong then you need to have a backup plan on how to return the loan.

Though it is very risky to loan money to buy Bitcoin which is still volatile and coupled with a lot of uncertainty in the market, but in the other hands good for you, at least you've got 1 Bitcoin and have your dream fullfiled and now owns 1 Bitcoin, because you might find it more difficult to buy 1 BTC during when the price has skyrocketed. I suggest you look for other means of repaying the loan and give Bitcoin time rather than waiting on the future price of Bitcoin, so you don't depend on the future price of Bitcoin (2yrs you made mention) to repay your loan and you might get disappointed during the repayment time.

Mining through ASICS are also a risky and time consuming investment as you will need to build up your rig and maintain it functionalities. You will also need to factor out expenses on maintenance such as electricity. However, this method is a much better way than what the OP did. Loaning on banks and families to buy a volatile assets such as bitcoin is such a risky method and it will catch up to OP in case he won't be able to pay up those loans.

But since he already lend from the bank, it is better to pay up those loans as soon as he gain profit whether or not he reached his 100-500% goal interest. This method works better if you are rich or have enough funds for to pay the loan but would like to spread out your investment however that is not the case for the OP.

Maybe the author just went in to buy 1 bitcoin after taking a loan because he mentioned he earned a lot in crypto but also lost a lot in crypto, so this is just going all in. (GL author)


1 whole bitcoin, oh.. First thing I would do if I get to own 1 bitcoin would be to sign a message like " I made it!" . "Dreams do come true" .

I had bad days and I had good days. Crypto is like that, you could have APR going straight and make that type of profit if you are lucky, or maybe something will go wrong and all will go to waste. Nobody really knows what's going to happen, and this is the deal. This means that the best thing we could do right now is hope that it would go up again, and it would stay that way.

This is how we are going to reach to a point where things will be serious, and if not then we are going to just end up with a decent life without a worry. This means that all we need is "nothing to change" from the invested time to withdrawal time but as we all know there could be some changes.

Mining, gambling, offering services are all methods to earn money but everything has its risks. For mining I was talking about how difficult things became to earn a bitcoin once asics joined the game. Before that it was easier, especially at the beginning of Bitcoin.
OP is mature enough tho to know what should be done and what shouldn't, we gave him an advice and it is up to him to assume consequences. He might win big if the price double, he might also default his loans if the price drop for quite long time.

The idea of getting a loan is not that bad if we are talking about reaching to a higher level than of your own. For example, people could buy a 100k house by paying 20k and then taking out a 80k loan, but they would have 100k worth of house, sure they will pay back maybe more than 100k but with inflation that house will be worth even more in the future. Think about it, if you could have that kind of low interest, high guarantee, high inflation, decades long purchase, you would do that with crypto too.

For example, if I had 20k, and could get 80k loan for 30 years, and buy bitcoin with it, the amount I would pay yearly would be very low, and monthly would be even lower, and I could probably pay that with my salary anyway. That way instead of saving and waiting for years, I would have that right away, and if we consider bitcoin and what it could be in 30 years, that is a damn good deal if you ask me.

In fact, investing in Bitcoin lights a different kind of lamp of hope inside the mind. I always support your thoughts whatever you think.If you invest 1 Bitcoin then I find you will have huge amount of money in every trade.I've invested a small amount of Betcoins from here and I can see that once the market is pumping, the gap is many dollars in no time.Whenever you invest with one bitcoin, you don't see how many dollars go up and down in your account every moment.But I think you will own big money very soon.You invest in bitcoins long-term and see where your financial portfolio takes you.

The OP’s post is about one year back.
Before commenting or posting anything, please have a look and understand things clearly.
I am curious to know what’s the status of OP with his investment that he made in 2021.
Is he still holding his coins like the others or did he panic and sold all the coins.
If he haven’t sold any, then I would suggest to stick with that only, as soon the bear market will come to an end and again the price will rise back to normal.

This is one of the things we tell people NOT to do...... NEVER buy bitcoin with DEBT! What is this obsession with people to buy 1 whole bitcoin, when we all know that you can by a fraction of a bitcoin for a few hundred dollars? If I were you, I will sell the Bitcoin now at a profit of $3500 and take that money and pay off the loan (with penalties paid) ..... I will then give back the money to your Uncle and give him some reward for his effort.

The remaining money (+/- $6000) will then be used to buy back some Bitcoin at todays price ($23500) ..which will give you about 0,2548 BTC... and then you hoard that Bitcoin until the price hit the next ATH.... (Which might be more than 200% more than what it is today... giving you a profit of more or less $12 000!)  ;)

It’s amazing and yet shocking to hear and know that people actually take loans for things like this. It’s literally the worst idea ever and very risky getting a loan to invest in an asset as volatile as Bitcoin. Though there’s a possibility it may pay off but at the same time, there’s also another staggering possibility that it would not and that is most likely always the case – it doesn’t pay off, adding more problems to you.

I would not advise anyone to take loans and invest in cryptocurrency, basically you’re even supposed to invest you can afford to lose, that is what I was taught when I was about starting, I’m not expecting to be seeing different ideologies now!

*facepalm*

For the love of god people, do not take out loans for any investments, regardless of whether its crypto or not. Do not invest money that you do not have is investing 101 and is the very first rule you learn when you start your "career" of investing.

Why is it so hard for people to understand this rule?

In a few months we are going to see you either happy or extremely unhappy. Bitcoin can go down up or sideways. that a 66% chance of you screwing yourself over with that loan.

The best time to invest into crypcurrency is during the bearish market but people do not understand search method research pattern of buying cryptocurrency when the price is low. That is why I went bitcoin turn negative many people started complaining of it falling habit so people to invest into it because they have seen other people who is running going into it. So on the process into investing into it are there when there is a little bit red in the market you see investors being against Bitcoin

it also depends on the financial capability of the individual himself. if he can't afford to wait for his investments, bearish period is not a good one for him, because the possibility of selling at a loss is high. so in this case, we will always have a different story when it comes to investing. most of the time, it relies on the financial status of the person.

And it would be even better before Bitcoin goes to a higher price, you want to buy it gradually from now on. Because that kind of thing also does not harm you as a holder or as an investor as long as you are still very confident in the future of Bitcoin. I personally also make purchases and also invest in Bitcoin because my belief in Bitcoin is still very strong.

I'm really hoping that turn the way you want them to be, because this must be the worst kind of investment I've ever heard. So far, you're losing 5.5% APR, which isn't that bad, plus another 10% interest, summing up to 15.5% you're missing out. You never invest what you can't afford to lose, you did not only invest all your money, but also you took a loan while you're having extravagant predictions about Bitcoin within a short time period.

This is a very good investment story from you but you had better be a good Bitcoin analyst to make this risk worth it. First, you did well by taking the risk, without risk, no one will make money, but borrowing money for this kind of investment plan is what I would not subscribe to (though Bitcoin will surely yield for you, the time it would is my consideration here). This is not to discourage you as you invested at the right time when Bitcoin is still at the bottom. Yet, no one could 100% guarantee any investment, and Bitcoin is not an exception. If I were you, I might have done it differently by investing only $6000 I own to have the rest of my mind and even limit my risk, then be saving for more opportunities like this in the future. Lastly, I hope you will smile at last with this investment, but try to read the Bitcoin chart very for guidance on this investment plan. Good luck to you!

This is really great to hear. It is important to consider the risks and make investments accordingly.

You are wrong:


I am curious to follow his investment over time, but it is normal that if it goes well he will come and say so, but if it goes badly he will not. Although I think it is more likely that it will work out well.

Well done friend. This is exactly what you should do. Take advantage of the market no matter how it goes, that is the way of a trader.
Congratulations on fulfilling your dream of buying 1 BTC. You should have taken the chance when the BTC price fell down to $17k, that was the lowest it went this year. Anyways, better late than never right. I’m pretty sure the BTC market price is going to rise again because the devaluation effect caused by the sudden increase in supply is almost coming to an end.

never buy a risky investment with a LOAN - i thought its basic knowledge :/

I'd say that you should have done the other way and not with what you did. Taking a loan isn't really a good idea for your bitcoin and crypto investments.

I can't imagine on how much all the interest that you've got and the market won't be favorable to us in times that you're about to pay all of your debts.

But I think that before you did that, you've got some back up plans on how you're going to pay that despite the market won't be that good during the time of payments. I guess you've got other sources of income where you can pull your money for paying those debts.

Anyway, it's already there and hoping that we'll see the better market in the upcoming days/months/years.

It is very risky to invest anything from the proceeds of the loan and if expectations are not matched, although investing in bitcoin is not a bad thing as it will definitely be profitable in the long run.
and it looks like the OP has planned and thought about the risks and made sure he has other income to be able to pay for it, a very bold decision and I hope what he is planning to work out as bitcoin is not easy to predict.

Yes, we have heard stories from the ATH of 2017 where they've took loans for buying bitcoin at the top. Well, even it's different today and we're likely at the top which was the past ATH, still, not recommended to do such.

We're all for investing in bitcoin but we also need to be careful in investing with where we've taken our money and not from loan. DCA is still the best strategy and whether we're in bull or bear, you'll just have to stick on it and do it no matter what is the situation of the market.

You should have considered doing DCA OP because that will still give you another opportunity to own bitcoin little by little. Taking a loan will only create future problems especially if you only rely from bitcoin for your payment on your loan. There will always be pressure every now and then. I'm afraid you will still sell them in the wrong time when there is a need already to pay your loan. Maximizing your purchase in bitcoin is always ideal especially with  a discounted price, but if you are not able and capable to do it, then don't force yourself to make it happen.

The hardest part now is how to deal with the loan where OP is in big trouble. Maybe, if he has another source of income to back up the current situation, I think he could still stand and continue but if there is none, that was really hard. 

That is the reason why if we invest in crypto, in a volatile market where we can't find 100% market assurance see to it that we use our own money, not others or loan money. As to whatever happened to it, there is no problem.

Making a loan to buy Bitcoin is a very risky job on top of the risk because everyone will not find it easier to know when Bitcoin will fall and when Bitcoin will rise in the market so that is something that is not recommended, exactly as you said.

That's true, because it's still better to use your own modest money for investment than to make a loan that makes life's burdens heavier when investing. That's why I prefer to invest with my own money and stay away from all loans offered by certain parties. Because I can enjoy life more when investing without having to borrow from anyone.

Well I guess this is what you have already done and I believe it will work out but overall I don't think it was the smartest of moves in terms of Investment, especially on cryptocurrency. It could turn off to not work according to the calculation you gave up there and what happens to your commitment to the Bank? your family might give more grace period for repayment but it might not work that way with the bank, So, I would have suggested you buy whatever amount you could afford then, and continue to DCA with the amount you will be paying out hopefully monthly to the Bank and your uncle knowing you will not be under any stress of should market not work the way you expect.

You have courage in loan problems, two places you borrow Bank and uncle + savings, your total: $ 20k, 1 Bitcoin is amazing, that's your amazing effort to achieve your dream 1 Bitcoin.

The question for me is bank interest, as far as i know the interest must be paid monthly, of course if that happens you now have a fixed monthly burden, for the time that has been determined by the bank, of course the interest for your uncle doesn't matter.

Does the Bank charge 10% APR interest for two years, if the Bank has such a rule, you are very lucky, wait for Bitcoin to reach $100k.

OP is already in trouble, even if Bitcoin recovers up to $30.000 for instance, he's already losing 5.50% from interest he would be receiving, plus 18% interest due to the loan and borrowing money from a family member. In total, OP is losing 23.5% of his money, per year. In summary, he'd be losing approximately $5.000/year. Even if Bitcoin rebounds to $30.000, in two years he would break even, requiring a rebound of up to $35.000-$40.000 to make a decent profit. Honestly, not worth the risk.

This is not possible for bitcoin if we are talking about staying in profit the same way. Because, if you are a renter and you are getting a house for yourself, then the mortgage should be similar to the rent you pay, hence why it would make sense to get a debt since you would be paying it back to the bank instead of your landlord, and you are not down too much.

Or if you are getting a house for investment, you would rent it out to someone and make that money back mostly. But when you are getting bitcoin, it's not paying it back to you, your debt is not getting paid by bitcoin, hence it's pure loss until it isn't. Which means you would have to wait a lot longer to be in positive.

in 2017 i also sold a lot of my stuff to buy bitcoin but at that time the price was 900$ so i sold in the 20,000$ and did my stuff in the real world and i don't regret it but i also saw a lot of people who sold houses , motorcycles to buy bitcoin and the price of bitcoin was at 17000$ and there were many analysts saying that the price of bitcoin would reach 50,000$ that year. people were so convinced that they sold everything they had, I even talked to them for hours. when suddenly the price of bitcoin started to drop a lot to 3100$ and those people disappeared, it was something sad and I never saw them again. I think they were traumatized by all their loss

Yes, when considering a loan, it will be a good thing to try to figure out what objectives that you are striving to achieve, and frequently, there is not necessarily going to be payoff in the short-term, unless you can get in and out of it with prices moving in your direction... and what are the odds of that?  usually not that great, and easier to see in retrospect that the BTC price will just move in the direction that you wished it to go.

Even your outline of numbers above coolcoinz, we can see that if there might be a desire to accumulate 1 BTC, then we likely need to acquire more than 1 BTC to merely be able to maintain the 1 BTC, otherwise you are just fooling yourself to proclaim that you have 1 BTC that you have already calculated that you have to use some of it to service the loan that you undertook.   On the other hand, if you already know that you have a cashflow to be able to service the loan with the proceeds of other income and then if there might be a balloon payment that is due at the end of the two year period (if the loan happens to be for 2 years), then if you know that you would be able to pay the balloon payment with other money that you know that you have coming in, then the loan had served the purpose of merely frontloading known future income.

Here, OP is not frontloading known future income, but instead unambiguously states that he expects to pay off the loan with proceeds of bitcoin that has gone up in value in a range of 2x to 5x within two years... which is not impossible - but still is a gamble because that is ONLY one of many possible future outcomes that might not even have greater than 50/50 chances of happening - even though OP seemed to have been assigning fairly high probabilities to such 2x to 5x BTC price appreciations within two years of his loan.


Yes.  This is another crazy idea to get a loan in order to rise to the level in which you have 1 whole BTC and therefore you have a great feeling because you have achieved 1 BTC, but  how can that feeling be anything except for self-delusion (based on an illusion) because you do not really own the 1 BTC - especially when the BTC is encumbered.  Sure even in June/July of this year, we could not have known if the BTC price was going to be going up or down, and surely there were some folks who could have somewhat reasonably speculated that the bottom may well have had been in, but there also could have been ways to create feelings that were more aligned with reality.. and sure maybe it could be argued that I am being too rough on OP retrospectively since the BTC price has gone down.. but maybe it is not even real that any reasonable person should really be able to muster up such artificial feeling of elation because he has gotten to the status of 1 BTC (that is supported by some of his own money but even a majority of the financing coming from a couple of loans).


Actually, a couple of points that you made are interesting.  

1st of all, the terms of the loans are important, and if there is about a 9% per year interest rate, and if it is allowed to make "interest ONLY" payments through the two year period of the loan, then the interest payment would be about $105 per month (and about $2,520 for the whole 24 month period), and then result in a balloon payment of $14k at the end of June 2024... so yeah if OP sticks with the loan for the full two year term, then at minimum BTC would have to go up to about $23,600 just to cover the servicing costs of the loan for that two year period... so any profits would not actually come to OP until after BTC would be over $23,600.

Regarding your point about how much OP could afford to lose, he does not have to be making anywhere near $20k a month in order to be able to afford to lose $20k, but of course, he does need to be able to cover the cost of the loan and even to cover the principle if the BTC price were to go down rather than UP.  No matter what if he follows through with the whole term of the loans, he is going to be owing $2,520 in interest, but yeah, at the end of June 2024, he is also going to owe back the principle too... which is $14k.  So if we assume that OP is able to service the loans at $105 per month, he should also be attempting to generate some kind of an extra cashflow of around $583.33 per month (which is $14k/24) in order that he will have the ability to pay $14k in late June 2024.  

I doubt that OP has thought that far ahead because he seems to have been gambling on BTC going up in value in order to be able to pay off the loans in late June 2024.


I am glad that you have the ability to admit that you have learned some lessons KingsDen. Learning lessons is important for anyone investing, managing money and figuring out how to employ practices that also include the balancing of seeking profits and managing risks.


Even if you supposedly learned various lessons, I am not sure if you are thinking about the matter correctly.  Sure, there are always opportunities out there, and sure with bitcoin or anything else, you are able to enter at any point that you like.. so in that regard, there is a need to measure the opportunities and balance the allocations and figure out the size of your positions based on facts currently available.

In regards to bitcoin, I frequently tell people to get the fuck started as soon as possible, but even if I tell them to get started as soon as possible, that does not mean that they should jump into bitcoin balls to the walls.  Maybe they start out with $10 per week, and they work up to $100 per week while they are studying the matter and getting their finances and psychology in order.  One of the most important things with any investments is to figure out your own finances and psychology, and you do not need to know all of the finances and psychology with great precision in order to get started right away.  Any of us should have some ballpark ideas of our incoming cashflow and our expenses, so we right now any of us should be able to figure out if we can afford to buy $10 worth of bitcoin for today's (this week's) allocation... and then surely, we can spend some time to figure out our details, and surely some folks have some really fucked up finances (and psychology) that they have gotten themselves into.. so for some people it could take a while to really sort out their personal matters.  

You are not wrong in regards to opportunities always being available... yet I am not sure if it is the right mindset when it comes to recognizing and appreciating the value of bitcoin, especially if you happen to be either a no coiner or a low coiner.  On the other hand, if you have already been accumulating BTC for some time, then you may well not be a no coiner, but you still might be a low coiner and in need of evaluating if low coiner status happens to be your situation.


That's not true.  You don't necessarily need super high appreciation in an asset (whether bitcoin or otherwise) to be able to profit stupendously from it.  It's kind of sounds like you really have not learned very much if your mindset is to pursue assets in order to become rich quickly.  You say that you have learned things.. but I wonder if that really is true..? have you learned actual important things rather than merely reinforcing dumb ideas or just learning unimportant things on the fringe?


You really are acting as if you know where bitcoin is going... .. as if it is just going to be flat, go down, or have mediocre performance.  How do you know these things?  Which assets are going to appreciate?  Which assets are better than bitcoin?  Are you a no coiner? or a low coiner?   Where are you putting your money right now?  Do you have any money?  Are your actions reflecting your words or are you just spouting out hypothetical nonsense that is not based on anything?

Give me an example.  Let's say that someone is late 20s or early 30s, and they have an investment portfolio that is around $50k or maybe they have accumulated more (and they have an adequate emergency fund and all that).  What is their current allocations?  Do they need to reallocate?  They have an income of about $3k per month with expenses of about $2,000 per month.. so they have about an extra $1k per month for investing.  Where do they put that $1k per month?   Yes, you can change the variables if you like... but let's entertain some specifics rather than suggesting that having some bitcoin allocation is supposedly all doom and gloom from here on out.

I thought I would buy 1 bitcoin and save it for 2 years.  Because I know Bitcoin's past, what Bitcoin once was and what it is now.  I know the current market situation is bad so I want to take advantage of this bad time for Bitcoin.  I have faith that I will succeed.  So those who thought of buying Bitcoin quickly bought it.  Hope we all write a success story together.

If you bought two years ago, you still have profit, and it's big, and I am sure you will still reinvest your profit since it's been so long. I don't know what price you saw two years ago, but it is really far from the price right now. I am hoping that you will write a story that is kind of positive because what I am reading right now is that they are kind of saying that Bitcoin is a scam because they lost their profit (which we experience, but some will say that it isn't true).

Still not profitable with OP investment in Bitcoin trough have been several months later after Bitcoin price crash, first topic created trough on June 29 and OP invested when Bitcoin price on $20,000. Current Bitcoin price right now have drop under $17,000 I can't imagine how spent Bank and his uncle loan actually with interest between 8% until 10%.

It's best not to be too forced to invest in Bitcoin by using borrowed funds, have many cases with investor losing opportunity after borrowing in the bank and used it for investing in Bitcoin, due price keep increasing up have possibility how to pay bank interest, but when Bitcoin price drop drastically not only losing our investment but also have looking other way for paying with Bank interest.

Buying bitcoin few years back, can't be compared today because the price have increased heavily in price, so as it's operation. Bitcoin is the advance profits stage for individuals who have accept the knowledge of Bitcoin and how it operates. There are countless times that I've count on bitcoin for achieving my targets and it's have always been what I relied mostly on. Our experience are getting stronger each time we face a dipping phase by Bitcoin and our chances of purchasing more increases.

OP, have you borrowed from a private bank that has cooperated with the government?
because in my country the Bank does not give loans with interest exceeding 7%. even Bank Negara only gives 5% interest per 2 years. However, for small private banks, they always provide loans with interest of 10% and above. and in my opinion it is very high risk for you OP.

but since you have done it I hope you can be patient with the ongoing bearish market.
but of course I think you OP have also thought carefully about this.

But my advice for the future, it's better to invest with cold money. so that our psychology is maintained and we still feel calm with the turmoil of bitcoin price movements as it is today.

when talking about targets, I also have targets in my bitcoin investment. maybe my target seems unrealistic. but I am targeting around 10 bitcoins before the bull run comes. Of course my target is still far away. But this target of mine gives high motivation for me personally to work harder and save more in my daily life.

Never you forget that the market is volatile and it seems like the price of Bitcoin is still going to go bear since the year is just going to an end. Well I am happy that you have finally taken the decision which is a good one and I hope that things will go the way you have planned. Taking a loan from people and Bank to buy Bitcoin looks very risky and I wish you best of luck in your endeavors.

You bought at $20k and the price of Bitcoin is now at $16k. This shows that the market is unpredictable and the price is still fallen and I hope that everything will take a bull step before the end of next year so that you can finally become profitable.

But now some people may feel mistrust of Bitcoin. And these people are all about Bitcoin Keep talk negatively. They always tell people only bad aspects of Bitcoin. This year the condition of Bitcoin has been very bad. Last year the price of Bitcoin was around $50k and now it has reached $16k. But this is not a strange event. There have been many such incidents before. But bitcoin heters mislead people by telling them that bitcoin will die out.So we have to trust Bitcoin instead of listening to them. And if we invest in this bear market and hold it, we will be able to tell everyone a beautiful story later.

As you said, it can be said that the interest rates in different countries are not the same, the bank interest rate in my country is currently up to 12%/year, and if you have a long-term loan, the interest rate is even higher.

It's too bad that OP decided to borrow money to invest in bitcoin, for me, it's the most taboo not to try even 1 time. Bitcoin is a risky investment with its volatility, we never know when it will increase and when it will decrease, so it is advisable to invest only with idle money. If we do not have too much money to invest once, accumulate them over time, and never borrow. But anyway, good luck to OP with his choice.

Did you know, you have made the biggest bet of your life by taking out a loan from the third party at 10% interest to fulfill your desire to own 1 Bitcoin. Bitcoin (Cryptocurrency) investment is a high-risk activity, the price is volatile which can change significantly from time to time. All Crypto Assets have the potential to change value drastically or even become meaningless. There is a high risk of loss as a result of buying/selling crypto Assets, for the reasons above it is highly discouraged to trade/invest in crypto Assets using borrowed money.

You dare to take a loan from the bank because you are sure you will get big profits from investing in Bitcoin. Even though Bitcoin investment can provide big and fast profits, this is uncertain, it can even cause big and fast losses too.
You think holding Bitcoin for 2 years can get 100% -500% profit, what if the market conditions are not what you imagined? Of course, you will be required to pay more interest as a result of not being able to pay off the loan according to the allotted time. You not only lose from losing half the value of money due to Bearish conditions but you also lose because you have to pay interest.

If you have a stable income, I will definitely support you, because in those 2 years you can also pay off your debt with your salary. But if you just rely on bitcoin profits to pay off debt and interest to the bank then I think I would object.
We all believe that bitcoin will rise again, but there is no certainty it will rise again, and even more uncertain in the next 2 years it will increase, all just stop at predictions.
It all happened, and I hope you are ok with your choice, but I don't expect you to spread this story to make people do the same, especially newbies.

Impressed forcing what the OP did. Investments made using money borrowed from a bank are not the right choice, tantamount to causing new problems and adding to the monthly installment burden for the bank. The next question is how OP pays off the monthly loan that runs every month, because what I read he uses a long term method of investing in bitcoin. The investment he made was correct, but his method was not quite right.

There's no doubt that bitcoin is a good investment for the future, but taking the risk of lending a bank's money can only make it more difficult. I think the OP made a mistake, it's better to buy bitcoin in small amount than borrow money from the Bank. For the next month, OP will definitely be busy looking for money to cover the monthly installment costs.

Buying Bitcoin with loan is not advisable. Atleast you should've bought it little by little than buying it as a whole. This could've helped you buy at a better price as well as on an average range. Anyhow the plan to hold atleast for 2 years will give assured profit out of the investment. For the two year tenure you should have the right plan to repay the interest, because at some loan the unpaid interest gets added to the capital beyond certain months of delay to pay interest.

When I see posts like this, it irritates me. I don't think it's a good idea to bet so much on something volatile. You take a risk that you are willing to bear on your own. If you wish to invest in Bitcoin, do so with your own money rather than a loan. You don't have to buy the entire Bitcoin; you can buy a portion. If the price rises, that's good; if it doesn't, you know it's your money, and no one will come and question you about it.

The dream of owning one bitcoin is the dream of many people, and we can understand OP's desire, but actually he risked too much when borrowing a large amount of money to invest in bitcoin. Because to get profit from bitcoin, we have to calculate by year while OP's interest to pay the bank is monthly. I'm afraid given the current situation, since bitcoin has never experienced something like this before, bear season will last longer, which will definitely be bad for the OP. Hopefully, he has a backup plan for the worst if it happens.

12% a year suggests a really high inflation rate and if it's one thing I learn from all the past many years of interest gain versus inflation, keeping your money for interest is just not enough to keep up with rising prices.

So in theory, borrowing money to invest sounds like a good idea but only if interest is keeping up in the long term with Bitcoin gains, and in my experience, compounding interest kills you off. Never a great idea to borrow...

Owning 1BTC have turned to be a big thing. In the past it looked like anyone can afford to have 1BTC, and now things have changed as the market have got widened as well as grown high in value. Op had risked, looking the market situation it is good he had made the entry at the right time. He could try to make some more earning through the regular trading practice. The interest rates on borrowed money is high, but it gives the satisfaction of making his dream come true.

Yes, it really is a choice.
But not by pushing myself, I was seen taking money in the bank in 2016, it literally imprisoned me for a monthly fee. OP takes a big risk when he doesn't have a backup plan for monthly fees to be paid to the bank, because the bearish season is likely to last for a long time, so the investment OP makes will have an impact on withdrawing money. We hope the OP can sort it out and have a backup plan going forward in the current month, so it doesn't get into trouble with the bank and says bitcoin is not a viable investment.

Because I believe that when bitcoin experiences a severe correction and demands for bank monthly fees cannot be resolved, the OP will act beyond predictions and it is in this condition that many people say bitcoin is unable to solve the problem, even though he did something without a mature forecast and strategy.

In theory he made the right investment, by placing money in bitcoin and was very right to enter the market when bitcoin conditions were in a bear market, which became a problem for the decision to take money at the bank. Because it will be difficult to get a return on the investment he made now, when the bear market has not shown any improvement towards recovery anytime soon.

OP definitely has a backup method for the problem of borrowing money at the bank, because it may have been considered quite carefully before everything was done.

Seems excited leaving in your country based on 5% interest when loan money in the bank, currently in my country have to pay more higher interest, I am remember with my neighbor get loan from the bank have to pay more than 20% interest per two years.

I think not good financial advice when investing in Bitcoin from Bank loan depending we need paying every months and several percentage of interest. Faced difficult with capital used for investing in Bitcoin make us have blame and use anything possible not only from Bank loan but also I faced reality in my country many people getting loan from illegal side. They have to pay highest interest loan and ever I read they history have paying more than 50% loan interest with loan one year only.

There are many ways to own 1 bitcoin, it is not necessary to risk fulfilling your dream in such a hurry. If you can't buy 1 bitcoin at a time, you can also accumulate weekly, monthly, and we have the advantage of being in the bear season, so accumulating to get 1 bitcoin is not too difficult to achieve. I think OP is having a big problem because his original plan was to have no inflation, but now inflation is high, and he has to pay more interest than expected. It is an uncomfortable situation to get the dream quickly.

I see the expression of the idea that you provide is also very good because I personally have never made a loan to buy Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies. Because I realize that this kind of thing is very bad when it comes to cryptocurrencies.

So it is very true as you say that it is better to buy Bitcoin half or as much as we can with the money we have without having to make loans to other parties for this. After all, everyone who buys Bitcoin is looking for profits accompanied by sincerity in the event of a loss, not adding to the burden through loans.

This is a very risky investment method, but I hope you can have a backup plan. At present, you have not purchased a bitcoin asset. If the price of bitcoin has not risen to the ideal price after two years, how do you repay it?

It worries me when all your assets are not enough to own a bitcoin. Although investing in bitcoin will not let you down, but the plan can't keep up with the changes. You can still save more money in other areas within two years A rainy day.

Make up your mind. If you're confident that Bitcoin won't let you down, then why are you still worried? It doesn't matter if you own a single coin, many, or fractions of, you're protecting yourself against longterm inflation we know for sure affects fiat, and that Bitcoin so far shows it can overcome.

Forget the downs and ups, remember the cycle after cycle performance.

Two years, too short... You need to start thinking minimum 4-5 years (one halving).

Everyone has a different investment method, he is also a legend on the forum, which means he knows what risk he will take when deciding to take a bank loan to invest. I wouldn't say he made a mistake because we're not him, we weren't in his situation so we wouldn't know what he was thinking. But when it comes to the monthly interest he has to pay, I guess he struggled because of the sudden increase in inflation this year. It will be a difficult time for him.

Relax, don't get so riled up because there are some certain things that we cannot control. I understand what you feel but we can't do anything about it as the OP chose to take that path where it's so risky. Let him do some mistakes as that is his own way to learn things, he chose to learn it expensively though.

While it's good to own 1BTC but we don't need to be hasty about it especially if we cannot really afford owning one. OP might have forgot that owning a fraction of it still counts and it's still profitable considering that we're just investing what we can afford and it's just a spare that won't be a liability in the future. I know that bitcoin's future is bring but owning one by loaning? That's just certainly a bad wild idea to begin with.

Yep majority of us here thinks it's a very risky move even if OP calculated the return of his investment after few years. Even me don't recommend to loan money out for the reason to invest, trade or gamble. Crypto is a volatile assets and it's a very big no for me to borrow and buy even if it is bitcoin. There are many possible things might happen in crypto and it's possible that the long awaited bull market we expect might not be in our face 2-3 years from now. It's a bold risky move and let's see how his investment will go in the future.

Sometimes does post some people use it to testify of their own story or what they experience into cryptocurrency so I will advise you not to develop hate to anyone posting method or posting style because many of us use what they pass through and what they witness to correct or make a post for we to read and see

Even after that 2-3 years, profit is not guaranteed. So I don't see any rational behind taking loans to buy Bitcoin as OP did. I will never do that while in my right senses. It is understandable the OP just want to fulfill his dream of owning a btc and he did though with much risk associated. I hope he'll not regret later.

Yes.. take a dumb idea and make it even dumber by employing a "regular trading practice," and losing even more.  That's what degenerate gamblers do.. they take one dumb thing, and then they keep adding dumb things.. and at some point maybe they will get lucky, but the odds become increasingly against any of us the more layers of gambling we add on.

Shitcoiners love to do those kinds of things.. and the vast majority lose money.. so bringing that to bitcoin does not make it better merely because it is on bitcoin or related to bitcoin.

Don't get me wrong.  I am not opposed to trading or even playing swings but it is way better to have calculated and incremental strategies that largely emphasize bitcoin accumulation and holding that does not count on selling in order to accumulate.. but instead largely skewed in favor of buying, accumulating and DCA'ing-related practices.


If you are considering bitcoin as a long term investment rather than some kind of pump and dump, then two years is likely too short of a timespan, and more likely you should be considering 4-10 years or longer, and some form of ongoing DCA rather than merely lump sum investing and/or buying on dip... even though lump sum investing and buying on dip can also be good practices to supplement DCA buying.

No matter what there are no guarantees either.. so each of us should be attempting to account for the fact that there are no guarantees in bitcoin, even though it seems to have been, to be and to continue to be amongst the best (if not the best) of places in which we can allocate value for the longer term of 4-10 years or longer.


I personally don't have any problem with a loan and to take chances that front-loading the investment might pay off better than buying incrementally.  Each of us is free to exercise those kinds of potentially reasonable gambles - even with long term investment money.

I think that the area in which OP went wrong was that it appears that he was calculating that the BTC price will go up during the next two years, and he seems to calculate that into his plan as if it were guaranteed, and even if the odds might be greater than 50% that the BTC price will go up in the next two years, that seems to be allowing for too many loose ends in regards to how to play a 8% to 10% per year interest rate that guarantees a certain level that he has to cover in the loan just to pay the servicing of it and how much the loan is costing him.  He also seems to NOT have other funding sources, such as a cashflow and/or other monies to assure that he does not have to sell his bitcoin.. so it is weird that his plan almost guarantees that he "has to" sell some of his bitcoin, even if the BTC price goes up within his anticipated 2x to 5x range.... and I suppose nothing wrong with servicing the loan by selling some BTC if the BTC has gone up 2x to 5X, that would end up being more profitable than if he had not taken out the loan.. but it still seems like an unreasonable gamble if all of the possible outcomes are considered rather than just assigning value to various upside scenarios while either failing/refusing to account for downside possibilities or giving really high discount calculations to the possible downside scenarios.. like assigning the downside values lower levels of probability than they actually deserve.

What you have done is a risky thing to do. It was not a matter of you having to buy a single bitcoin. If you could buy bitcoins little by little with your own money over time, that investment would be a good investment. At present you are in a lot of loss from your investment. How long will it take for the market to recover in your position, but you are not even able to analyze it. Right now you have to pay weekly or monthly installments to your bank. So you are in for a tough time right now. Anyway hold on to your investment. And look forward to Bitcoin Halving.

Depending with each country regulation about Bank interest and seems OP country adopted about 8% until 10% loan interest most heavy trough Bitcoin still going dump and not consistency with profitable earn. Actually, there are not any problem yet when using loan for investing in Bitcoin trough entry when Bitcoin still going dump, but little risk when OP have been investing in not right time and waiting until two years later with his Bitcoin investment not profitable yet.

Better waiting right time for investing in Bitcoin trough Bank loan actually when Bitcoin have going dump, earn profit about 10% until 30% better for selling it and take recovery from your loan and used half for reinvesting again in Bitcoin with your earning profit.

Everyone has no problem with borrowing, it's free to do for certain interests, especially the use of the money taken is placed in investing in bitcoin.

Predictions like this are normal things to happen in my opinion, because the OP could have tried to calculate bitcoin's journey when it reached the previous ATH, so that in the next two years bitcoin can provide a large return on the investment it makes. The time accumulation the OP was trying to calculate seemed to follow a four year cycle, so he decided to invest and take the risk of borrowing money from a bank.

However, the problem that will be faced in the following month is how to pay the bank's monthly fees, especially if you do not have other sources of funding, such as cash flow and/or money from other proceeds. Honestly, I would like to know how much the monthly fee must be paid to the bank by the OP?

The biggest problem arose here, there was no other source of reserve funds as he started to run out of money to cover the bank's monthly fees, so when faced with difficult conditions he would decide to sell bitcoins. Thus the investment he made did not get any profit and you could say he failed miserably in implementing this investment pattern.

As much as possible if you have not taken loan from the bank of your country then I request you not to take high interest loan in this bad condition.  Especially in the next years i.e. 2023 it is not possible to say how the Bitcoin market will be.  Moreover, if you have taken a high interest loan from the bank and invested it in Bitcoin, you have no choice but to wait for the next Bitcoin market upturn.  Moreover, if the market does not rise before your bank pays back the loan with interest, there is a high chance of bankruptcy for you.

Yes.. some people do have a problem with the idea of borrowing money in order to invest in bitcoin.  That's why I responded to you in that post in the way that I did - and as an attempt to clarify how loans could be used in such a way that is not as big of a "problem" as some folks, including you MarjorieZimmermanGinger, were generally describing the practice of borrowing to buy bitcoin.


Yes.  I said that it was a problem for OP to be expecting 2x to 5x returns in 2 years even though other people make the same mistake.  And, yes it might happen, but it is a problem to assign too high of a probability to such expectations, as OP seemed to have had been doing.  Just because a lot of people do it does not mean that there should not be some kind of an attempt to clarify the matter, which was what I was doing.


So what?  The reason that he is doing it is a so fucking what?  Do you think that a lot of us are not already familiar with the various theories why the BTC price might go up?  And, yes it might go up, but it might not.  That is part of the clarification that I was attempting to describe, so I am not sure why you are going back to the idea that the BTC price might go up.  That's already known that it might go up, and it is already known that there are cycle theories and all kinds of BTC prediction frameworks, but just because there is a prediction framework, that does NOT guarantee that the BTC price is going to follow such BTC price prediction framework.


Now you are repeating the same thing that I just said.


Well, that's a fair statement/question.  I had made a post on estimating the best case scenario if OP only has to pay interest, and then pay the principle at the end, but there could be other ways that the pay back terms are outlined by the bank.  So far OP has not described that, as far as I can recall not seeing any such description of how the loan is meant to be paid back.  Maybe OP can clarify the terms upon which he is suppose to pay back his loan?
 

Well, OP seems to be gambling that he is not going to lose.  Yeah, so far his the BTC price seems to be going the wrong way, but it is still possible that he could end up profiting from the loan if the BTC price goes up in such a way that covers both his principle and the fees that he is supposed to pay.

This is a nice story OP, which many investors will like to follow your step in the future when you finally make it with that two years of holding. I think, you will definitely make it to pay back your loan and still have more money to continue with your investment, because Bitcoin investment is different from other cryptocurrencies investment which the price can dump today and pump higher tomorrow for those that invested to have something passive to achieve. Bitcoin price will definitely hit higher next year, because this year is a preparation for what investors will experience from bullish market soon.

Sorry but I don't get it. 8% interest borrowed from OP's uncle is higher than that of the bank with a 10% interest? Anyways, it's a very risky move OP. Something I will never do is borrow money for risky investment purposes. Although I am really confident that bitcoin will reach at least $100k in 2025 which is 500% of your capital. There are still no guarantees though. I hope you are not affected by the current drop. And since you already crossed the Rubicon, good luck mate, and hopefully, you will earn big with your very risky gamble.

Another thing, I am amazed at how high deposit interests and the low borrowing interest rates are in your place. 10% is very low and you can start a good business that can easily cover that kind of interest. Here in my country interest rates are usually at 24% per annum. Our time deposits here are only around 3% per annum.

OP,are you sure this move of yours will work as you have predicted, I guess you should come up with a plan B so that if in the next two years,bitcoin price didn't get to your assumption price,you can pay up your debts to avoid depression and frustration. You are lucky that you have where to borrow from,unlike down here in my country,borrowing is like putting a big burden on your head due to high interest rate.

You have the mind in taking risk with this bold step of yours to own 1BTC,this is what some people don't know that investing into a business is taking a risk because for you to be successful in life,you much take a risk in whatever you are doing. OP I wish you good luck and hope bitcoin price goes up so that you can pay back the loans.

Maybe he has already thought of the way you hope for it, so that you yourself don't have to worry about other people's plans and the risks that other people will bear in terms of investment. Because every investment does have its own level of risk, and I think that is the same as the work we do every day where the risk is always there and needs to be understood.

There is no need to worry about other people's assets because everyone has a plan that suits their own way of thinking and has considered it very carefully before making it. So your additional suggestions might be another consideration for the people you address, but basically everyone will still do something based on their own way of thinking.

Taking risks is sometimes necessary in investing, because great people are also mostly always willing to take risks.
because in high risk there is also high success.
but! must be truly mature and dare to bear all the worst possibilities.
and hopefully bitcoin in 2024 halving will exceed last year's halving.
all bitcoiners definitely want to profit, no one wants to lose.

careful calculation will always bring profit.

What you said is probably the OP's thinking, we need to take risks, and step out of our comfort zone to take on bigger challenges to achieve success. If we are always afraid and dare not try anything, we will never succeed. OP's method is quite risky for many people, but I believe that when he decided to do it, he was fully calculated and prepared for himself. I have no objection to what he does, and I hope he succeeds with his plan.

We must have the courage to do that and by taking risks we are ready to succeed with the actions taken along with the responsibilities, we must not be afraid of investment because from the worst there must be a process of recovery and also success so don't hesitate if you invest by choosing bitcoin basically we will see better profit over the next few years.

Well, we all as bitcoin investors want to make a profit, but we have to be able to go through a process of obstacles, don't stop in the middle of the road, we have to be prepared for any circumstances until bitcoin recovers again.

It's with that calculation that needs to be looked at, but when counting on a shitcoin, it's a mistake they made.

Of course, in any case, risks cannot be avoided, and of course, don't stop investing in bitcoin halfway, we all know the cycle in general, when the Bitcoin price is bearish, winter, and bullish, this cycle is common, and we can see it.

But Borrowing money in the bank at this time and investing in bitcoins is not in a hurry? considering the halving schedule will occur in 2024, OP will have to wait a year if he really wants the benefits that are worth the wait.
I think it's terrible if not to have any income from our job to pay the bank bills each month, but it looks like OP has enough income to cover his bills.

I give a thumbs up for his bravery, as a Bitcoiner and of course, I also support his actions.

I think I should and would not borrow money to invest in a product that takes a long time to make a profit. I will use my extra money to invest in a planned way. Investing itself is risky. If you also borrow money to invest, your risk multiple will increase.

But if you can stick to your plan, I think I admire you and your courage.

The problem is when someone does not have a spare cost in the process of financing trips every month for the bank, and for me to avoid problems it is better not to lend money at the bank to make investments. There are many simple ways to participate in investing in bitcoin, one of which is to make purchases in stages according to your needs and not burden the capital we have.

If the investment he made goes according to the target set, it will look good and will provide a solution to the loan he is doing, then what if bitcoin in the next two years is still in its current state. Let's say this is the worst assumption that we are trying to predict, even though the next two years may not be the case. I mean there are preventive actions that can be taken, if at any time the target set does not go according to the expected scenario.

This relates to bitcoin being considered a speculative asset by most people, whatever the notion of linking the four year cycle with the many theories that try to be narrated, there can never be an accurate prediction of bitcoin's journey in the market. There are several patterns that cannot be separated from the journey of bitcoin, for example in the value of supply and demand, although other influences cannot be ignored either.

The most appropriate idea why bitcoin will rise again at a high price, because the price is speculative and the long journey that has been passed has given confidence to many people as the best investment and is an asset capable of maintaining value in the future.

I didn't get any clarification from the OP regarding this question, but with you I was involved in several discussions and subconsciously I also started to study some of the posts you made, thus clarifying some meanings that I still don't understand, and that's why I'm happy discuss with you freely, without worrying if my understanding is wrong in assuming.

This is an important point from the discussion that has been going on, gambling is the same as investment even though the pattern of work is different, because gambling is also part of prediction and investment is not much different from that pattern. If gambling expects a win, then investment expects a profit.

I agree that bitcoin will again show resistance to recovery and bitcoin will slowly recover in the future, and the OP will most likely benefit from the investment he is running, as long as he can stay calm and not panic while waiting for a sustained recovery in the market.

I am not sure if I understand or even agree with what you are proposing in respect to "preventative measures" since it is quite true that at the time that any of us goes into a loan, we should be able to create our plans in accordance with all of the information that we know at the time of entering into the loan. 

There are quite a few things that are in our control, including what kinds of assets and cashflow that we already have and our abilities to consider the possible ups and downs of our own other assets and cashflow.

We also know the exact terms of the loan what is the percentage that is paid in interest/fees, what is the period of payment and the payment amounts. 

As far as the BTC price, there seem to be ONLY three possibilities, which is that the BTC price goes UP, DOWN or sideways.  We should be able to plan for those three possibilities, and sure we might have some changes in the other factors that we had considered to have had been fixed, but our plan for the period of the loan should not really be changing very much, so in that sense, there should not be any "preventative measures" that need to be taken, unless there was already a plan to employ such "preventative measures" if certain circumstances pass.


I would frame the differences between gambling and investment differently than you. 

From my point of view, some folks seem to convolute their definitions of gambling and/or investing in such a way that it becomes difficult to understand how they are differentiating the concepts, so in that sense sometimes it can be difficult to figure out what they mean when the are describing how gambling and investing differ from one another.

So in some sense it could reasonably be argued that gambling and investing are on a kind of spectrum in which if we go far on one end of the spectrum we are in the territory of gambling and if we go in the other direction then we are in the territory of investing, but there are some shared traits in the middle in which the definition could go either way.

So, for me, investing tends to involve having a longer timeline and also tends to involve the engaging in behaviors in which the amount of guessing is reduced.  So for example, if I say that I am going to invest $10 per week in bitcoin no matter what for the next 5 years - which is $2,600 ($10 * 52 weeks * 5 years), then I would call that investing rather than gambling, even though at this time, I do not know how much the price of bitcoin is going to be in 5 years (and/or what other places I might have held/invested that value and whether I might have received a better return by investing that value somewhere else), but I am trying to lessen the number of guesses that I am making.  That would be following a kind of dollar cost averaging approach. DCA.

Now, if I take some variation of the same facts, and I tell myself that I have a $2,600 budget, and for the next 5 years I am going to buy bitcoin when it is low (or any other asset that is trade-able with relatively low fees) and to sell bitcoin when it is high in order to attempt to increase my $2,600 in a way that is better than the DCA approach over that same period of time, I might consider those practices to lean more towards a kind of gambling.  It is not a very good example, but my point is the more variables that are left to chance including trying to predict the ups and downs of price, then the more I would consider the practices to fall into a gambling camp rather than into an investing camp.

Another possibility would be that if I were not to have an ability to provide myself with a front-loaded $2,600 budget, so in this scenario, I can only add $10 per week to my "investing budget" over the next 5 years, so each week I add an additional $10 to my "investing budget," and I try to identify assets that are low in price and to sell them when they are higher in price within a reasonable period of time, and I would like to both have more than $2,600 at the end of 5 years of "investing" in this kind of a way (whether held in BTC or in other assets but I am frequently trying to time the market in order to increase the amount of money in my investment portfolio, but I would also like to beat the $10 per week DCA approach and to have had accumulated more BTC at the end of the 5 year period than I would have accumulated if I had merely engaged into a DCA practice. 

My point is that the more variables that I do not know and the more times that I am taking chances on unknown variables, then the more that the practice is likely to be classified by me as gambling rather than investing.

I am not sure if everyone. Sometimes, some people are experiencing big problems with loans for investing in Bitcoin or crypto. The risk is much higher because we must pay the debt and maybe along with the interest. Not only that, not everyone is ready for Bitcoin investment. Sometimes, their expectations are very high but they are not ready for the risks, so they are prone to panic attacks, especially in a bearish era like this. And finally they experience losses and difficulties in paying these debts. In this case, it would be better if we use our own money to invest to reduce various risks. But again, this may be a matter of personal preference and ability. But especially for newbies, I really don't recommend going into debt to invest in crypto.

We are talking about bitcoin here - not "crypto."

Fuck shitcoins, or the various other projects.. whatever it is that you mean by "crypto" that is not bitcoin or bitcoin-related.

Everyone does not have to understand and agree with some of the assumptions that people want to convey, but the fact is that borrowing money at a bank is an outdated method and there are no greater benefits. If after borrowing you cannot calculate the principal amount of the loan, the monthly fee and the overall impact of the loan.

There is a side of complexity that is understood by many people in the money lending system at the bank, can this case be said to be true?
I mean the bank system applies several principles after providing loans to customers, starting from the sanctions and risks that must be accepted when the agreement has been implemented. This principle includes several risks that will occur, if the customer cannot pay off the monthly fee, the bank will take certain actions.

Three possible journeys of bitcoin, up, down and sideways.

Down: OP invested quite rightly by taking the price method when entering the market, I think this point is quite right.

Up: OP can wait for the bitcoin recovery process going forward, so that the investment made actually reaches the target he expects.

Sideways : I don't really understand the meaning of sideways, but I'm trying to assume that sideways is a condition where bitcoin is in the stage of a severe correction as it is today. This is where the OP went wrong in combining investments with loans in the bank, so the target set for two years is the portion of gambling he's trying to put as an investment, plus no reserve funds to max out for monthly contributions.

And in the end the OP has to be really good at conditioning his time, so that the investment journey that begins with borrowing money from the bank doesn't ruin his investment pattern, because the money he gets is used very properly for investing. If in the current month he has capital reserves to cover the bank's monthly fees, then all problems and worries will be answered by themselves. Because what I know, investing in bitcoin is a step to maintain the value of the currency and is the best asset in the long term.



In the difference in time it may be true that investing is more likely to take a long time, whereas gambling does not take the whole journey. In terms of this definition, there is indeed a difference between gambling and investment methods, but I mean that the closeness of the two is almost the same in the practice of speculation.

I have no skill in math, I mean when people try to narrate investing is very close to gambling only in certain areas. Investment allocates funds to get certain assets that are trying to buy like our discussion concerns bitcoin, while gambling risks assets and depends entirely on uncertain possibilities, in this area it is certain that investment and gambling have different sides.

Within this scope I can understand and definitely agree that gambling is different from investment, and in the end it is we who can clarify the direction of investment or get closer to gambling, in accordance with the understanding and function that we already know.

If it is true as you say, he has an income and can afford to pay interest every month, then I do not object to his action, but if he does not have a stable income, then I do not agree.

We all predict 2024 is the time when bitcoin will go up in price and OP will have enough money to pay those loans, but there is no certainty bitcoin will go up in price by that time. It's all speculation, so OP needs more than 1 plan for 2024. OP's actions are pretty reckless, I don't think I have the courage to do it. Although it takes risks to succeed, with bitcoin not, an asset with a future is still a question mark.

The right decision for you if you really don't have extra income or have heavy bills every month, of course, today will be a long time for bitcoin to peak again, but you can use your extra savings to invest in bitcoin with the DCA strategy is not a thing that makes you trouble or rather a little risk.
But if you have more income and your needs are met so you have some money to manage better, I don't think taking out a loan is not a big deal because basically, you can pay the bill with your income, and you can buy a lot of Bitcoin at the current lowest price.

You have beautifully drawn a fine line between investment and gambling which is generally difficult to distinguish and people often confuse gambling with investment. The main difference is the risk involved. Investment is done with long term goals like we buy Bitcoin and continue accumulating it during the bear run and this kind of investment is less risky because it is consensus among all analysts, & history has vindicated it again and again, that it always pays off huge rewards to those who believe in its potential to outsmart all other class of assets.

When you strive for the best in life, you are willing to take the required steps and risks to see your goals realized in the future. Even though our future is still uncertain, we still think that our bitcoin investment has the potential to help things work out well for us.

Some may find your decision to loan money from the bank to purchase one whole bitcoin risky and ill-advised, but I think it was brave on your part because you planned your investments over a two-year period, which is the bull market.

Congratulations on being one of those people who holds 1 bitcoin in a hard wallet. ahead are better days. Keep holding. I will love to hear your story in 2year's time of how bitcoin has given 500% profits as you have expected

I don't think that banks are offering outdated methods for loans, but they might be offering loan terms that are NOT attractive.. so you have to decide if you believe that it is to your advantage to enter into such loan or not.   If the terms of the loans are fixed, then that is much easier to figure out rather than some real estate loans that are offered these days in which the rate is adjustable.  Personally, I would NOT enter into any loan that is adjustable.


Even if you "invest" rather than "gamble," that does not guarantee that you are going to make profits, even if you have a long timeline of 4-10 years or more.

Of course, if we are investing into any asset for 4-10 years or longer, we want to attempt to calculate in order to come to a prediction that we believe that there are decent odds that our investment will have better chances of increasing in value as compared if we had not invested into it or as compared to if we had invested into some other asset class.  We do not know with confidence, so in that regard we are making a prediction based on information that we know at the time that we get started, and we are also not necessarily locked in for 4-10 years or more, even if our initial plan we decide to "self-lock" ourselves into the investment, yet since we are in charge of ourselves, we can decide to change our minds along the way, too. 

A lot of people make mistakes of getting in and out and into their investments, which frequently contribute to their NOT being able to benefit as much towards is they were to maintain a longer term investment and to continue to build onto it without getting out and then back in or without being tempted by borrowing against their investment in order to consume.  And, of course, those choices regarding how much to draw into your investment during periods in which is supposed to be growing can make differences towards the growth trajectory of the investment.

Over the years, I have made those kinds of mistakes of drawing into my investment, and frequently it can be difficult to make up for the amount that was drawn out and/or even the growth that the investment would have had while the withdrawn amount was absent from the investment funds.

What distinguishes gambling from investing is the people themselves, investing takes a long time to get involved and a strategy is needed in choosing the assets we want to invest. Whereas gambling has a slightly shorter time frame, it generally involves betting fate and having no pattern to follow.

The outline between gambling and investment is different, but in some dimensions they may have similarities in speculation, this closeness makes it difficult for people to distinguish, even though the two are clearly different in practice.

Slight difference in terms of language, but the point is that banks still offer terms that are so out of date or let's say they are no longer as attractive as you say, speaking of advantages I think are relative, they will not have the same function between each other.

For example, entrepreneurs take loans from banks, meaning they need capital to develop the companies they run and they have reserve capital in case something unexpected happens. Meanwhile, for ordinary people who do not have a spare cost before taking a loan at a bank, it will actually make life difficult when forced to take a loan. Even though in the strategy you want to do, the money will be used for investment.

I choose not to accept any loans, In this case we have the same perception.!!!!

My opinion, Make sure to keep an eye on the market and don't get too carried away by excitement. After all, investing can be a rollercoaster ride. By Taking out a loan and borrowing from your uncle to buy Bitcoin, It's like talking about living on the edge.

But, It's true, sometimes we have to take risks to reap the rewards, right? And with a profit potential of 100% to 500% in just two years, I thought it might be possible but I like your guts and you've just made a smart move. So buckle up and enjoy the ride!

I do agree with you senior @mk4 and I really don't think there is any need for the quest to borrow just to invest in what is very volatile like Bitcoin but one funny thing is that your future profit seems very much possible since you already got one Bitcoin and there isn't any much need  to panic since you already own one fraction of Bitcoin and since it's price(Bitcoin) wouldn't fall to zero, it simply means you wouldn't get liquidated.

@OP though it is a thing of joy to have acquire Bitcoin, but I don't think it is necessary for you to have borrowed money just to invest which also means that the money you used, probably you can't afford to lose it just incase things don't go as expected which isn't right but all the same congrats to you.

I always had hard time convincing myself to buy Bitcoin with a loan from bank. Eventually I bought some around 20-21k levels with something like 1k usd loan with 0.5% interest. It definitely doesn't kill me because I work so I have fixed income. But as I explained, if rates are not good enough and you are not having good income its best to not buy Bitcoin with a loan. I wish you best with your purchase. I guess you (OP) already made profit as price is higher now. Also its best to put that Bitcoin into earn program so you can generate more for future.

To be honest in this case what you are doing is quite good by buying bitcoin but indeed by buying risking and even borrowing I probably wouldn't do something like this.
I prefer to be in something safe and even though bitcoin is indeed risky I still don't want to be preoccupied with debt so I prefer to buy from the money I have and I consider it as money that is not really used rather than having to borrow money first from the bank .
Even though this is just a difference in perspective, I appreciate your decision to have the courage to do this in conditions where bitcoin is actually still worth buying.

When we buy BTC with a loan, we are front loading our investment , so yeah, if the BTC price goes up higher than the amount to service the loan, then it ends up being profitable to have had invested into BTC earlier rather than later. 


That is not good advice.  It is actually bad advise - given so many problems with those earn and yield products and so many ways that people got fucked with the various ways of chasing yield.

Bitcoin remains one of the best, if not the best investment, so it is not necessarily good to let someone else hold it for you, which is what is required when you try to earn yield or interest on it... so one of the better pieces of advice is to figure out ways that you do not lose your bitcoin along the way, so if you are investing 4-10 years or more into bitcoin, then perhaps it is best to have goals to either try to build the quantity of bitcoin that you have or at least to mostly be able to hold most of your bitcoin for long periods of time.. and of course, there is nothing wrong with taking some profits along the way, if the BTC price goes up and to have some ideas of amounts of bitcoin that might be sold at certain price points on the way up, if the BTC price does end up going up in the coming years during the time that you expect to be invested into it.


Protip:  Bitcoin is always worth buying.^**

The fact of the matter is that bitcoin has been a great investment for as long as it has been in existence, and there is no real evidence that it's investment thesis is getting weaker with the passage of time, and instead, the evidence seems to show that the investment case for bitcoin seems to be getting stronger rather than weaker, even if the amount of price appreciation (in terms of percentage of price rise) may well not be as  high as it had been in the past 10 years or so.

Of course, there are no guarantees in life, including in terms of where to invest, how to invest and how much to invest, and each of us need to make these kinds of choices based upon where we are currently at and our own financial and psychological circumstances, and we are not all going to come to the same conclusions even if we might be in similar circumstances as some other people, and so the risk/reward is going to vary, and part of the risk/reward may well have to do with personal decisions in regards to whether and how to act, including that failing/refusing to act is a kind of decision as well, and there are consequences for failing/refusing to act, too.


** This is not financial advice.. and may well even be an exaggeration in order to make a point to be more salient... You are totally and completely responsible for your own situation and decisions about what you do or not do regarding finances, psychology or otherwise.

Though you have told a successful story but I can't encourage anyone to invest in Bitcoin by taking a loan. Because it's the. Most risky investment as we know anything can be happened in this market. Market may be crashed if any exchange hacked or being manipulated by whales. So I won't suggest anyone to take loan and invest on it. We should be aware about the disadvantages of Crypto investment. Anyway Good Luck to OP hope he could make a huge profit from his investment.

My mistake in choosing words, I revise my previous words because bitcoin is always worth buying and I admit that :D

Actually when it comes to life insurance and investing in bitcoin I think that's a lot to talk about and the answer is still the same. All forms that are passed in life, of course, there is no real guarantee as well as for investment, there must be a risk that must be taken. As for being in bitcoin, I think when people who invest here are smart enough to know the risks of this and indeed the greater the risk taken, when we have reached a point where we have successfully passed that risk, everything will be more valuable and of course the profit is bigger too.

You did not say bad, although if the story of his investment is true, then now he can earn over 35% interest or profit from that fund if he wishes. But it is not always the case that the decision making by everyone will be good and the market condition will be the same for everyone. Trading already puts people on the road from a good position whereas when one trades through a loan his situation is almost life threatening.
OP has already broken the basic rules of trading, which is to invest as much as you can afford to lose. I hope he will be successful in booking his profit but everyone else will have a suggestion not to take such a decision.  But if you have a lazy fund, then that fund can be used for investment for Bitcoin, and for long-term trading, you must not use any exchanger, according to you, there is a possibility to crash here, there is an easy way already that hardware wallet to use

Prior to March 2020, I used to recommend that anyone starting in bitcoin should consider investing anywhere between 1% and 10% of his/her investment portfolio (and perhaps cashflow) into bitcoin, but then some time after March 2020, I started to recommend that the percentage for the beginner newbie into bitcoin should consider somewhere between 1% and 25% into bitcoin, and of course, one aspect of bitcoin, is that it is an asymmetric bet (investment) to the upside and therefore, it may well not take very much allocation into bitcoin in order to potentially profit stupendously..

So, yeah, like you are seeming to say nara1892, there can be some advantage to finding some kind of an investment point in which you are feeling sufficiently aggressive in your investment into BTC because if you are too whimpy, then even if BTC goes up a lot, the whimpiness of the investment may well end up not making up for the fact that the there really was not enough there to actually make meaningful profits, and a similar thing could be true for those people who end up investing too much, and then when the BTC price moves against their position and then fails to go up for a long time, they end up getting reckt.. or maybe even having to sell a lot (or maybe even all) of their BTC.

So yeah there may well be a decently broad range of balance that still is going to be able to work in order to become richie as fuck (without guarantees of course), but at the same time if you are either too far on one side (such as too whimpy) or the other (such as too aggressive) then you end up either not really profiting with any significance, or you end up losing most or all of your investment (or having to start back up over again from a worse position than if you had been more prudent and conservative rather than gambling with your investment into bitcoin by engaging in overly risky conduct).

From the opinion of some people, it seems like Op took a wrong decision to take the loans he involved himself with just to buy Bitcoin, but often times these kinds of decisions really do pay off well. But Bitcoin investment is better when one has a calm mind and accumulates slowly without being under investment pressure. Had OP even started by doing DCA, he would have also had a better chance to buy more BTC when the price was at $16k.

I would not even advise anyone to take such a step because they would end up blaming me for having their support. In 2021, when a friend asked me if they could invest in Bitcoin and I said yes, they did so, hoping to see Bitcoin get to $100,000 in 2021, but instead the market dumped, and I took the blame for just the advice.

OP may have been successful in his decision in just about 10 months. If he repays the bank loan with 10% ($11,000) interest and the loan from his uncle with 8% ($4,320) interest, then he is left with 17%, which is about $6,600, good profit. From OP, what I also fail to understand is the period he was supposed to repay those loans with interest; he did not state whether it was supposed to be within a one-year period or just five months, because if he has not repay in the agreed period, then he will have additional interet to his loan repayment.

You are doing a very brave thing in this case because making a big decision like this definitely takes courage to do even if it is for the purpose of buying bitcoins that are worth it.
That is 1 btc that is indeed a dream, I also want that but indeed my conditions may be quite different because I am not too brave like this by trying to borrow from the bank and pay installments every month. I am now still trying to collect 1 btc but still in the same way as before DCA because indeed this is the action that I think is most suitable for the current conditions even though it can indeed be done like you did but I don't want to go straight like that because I think dealing with loans, especially in terms of banks, is a little troublesome in my opinion.

It can be said that borrowing money to invest is not advisable, but if someone is confident that they will be able to repay the loan even if their investment is not favorable, then they can borrow. We should have calculations to suit our circumstances and have reasonable plans.
If you do not have a stable job or your income is not high, you should not imitate others to borrow money to invest in bitcoin. There are many ways to achieve 1BTC without having to borrow money, as long as you persevere and work hard every day, you will reach the goal.

Front loading can make the achievement of the goal more certain, and I am not even talking about having to pay off the proceeds from the appreciation of the BTC price.

We can change some of the circumstances of OP (we do not even know all of the terms of the loans, exactly), but to suggest that a couple of loans are entered into that allow for the buying of BTC at $20k, and the payment terms could allow the payment over a couple of years or even over 5 years, so it may well be a good idea to lock in the buying of 1 BTC and then to just pay off the loan in whatever the period might be between 2-5 years (and it seems OP's terms were not so favorable, but if the term was 5 years.. then payments could be spread out for those 5 years, and for sure 1 BTC is achieved).. Part of OP's problem seems to be an expectation to pay off the loan with the appreciation of BTC rather than with other cashflow that he might have.

For sure, I do like DCA, buying on dips and lump sum buying with money as it comes in, but surely there can be ways to buttress buying strategies with a loan to supplement some front loading of the purchase of the BTC at a given time, but that might not guarantee that you are doing the best in terms of the BTC purchase price, even though it does end up locking in the BTC purchase price for those particular BTC that were bought "early" by the loan. 

Sometimes poor people do not use loans effectively because they expect to pay off with the earnings from their asset, rather than assuring that they have various sources of funds, and sure maybe I should not only accuse poor people of such issues, because rich people get greedy too and we might ONLY be able to verify that they screwed up when the whole project comes crumbling down because they either lost momentum in the project in terms of cashflow coming in, or they might not have had been sufficiently hedged in terms of having funds from other areas that could be used to fund projects in which the cashflow might be uncertain.. and surely there are some funds that purposefully engage in such risky projects and may well end up leaving others holding the bag while they are able to lock in their own personal profits, so even if various entities around them end up suffering when the project falls, the one who structured the loans and the deal are able to ensure that they get paid.

There are a variety of ways to use debt, and at the same time there is not necessarily any need to scam anyone else in terms of being able to pay back the loan and to front load the investment when there are ways to have high levels of confidence about future cashflows that are not necessarily reliant on the investment  (in this case BTC) going up in value during the period of the loan.. and so that remains part of the risk.. that is not always clear in terms of what are the odds that it will actually pay off for the period of the loan... even if there ends up being some fluctuation in price (BTC here) along the way that may or may not end up recovering during the period of the loan.

This indirectly comes back to everyone's strategy. Even though borrowing money is actually not wrong as long as we are able to be accountable but this goes back to the strategy and level of courage of course.
I think borrowing as you say is still possible with a long enough duration it will most likely be very worthy of profit but the problem is when we go back to everyone's strategy and perspective obviously this will consider right and wrong depending on how we respond to it.
I personally don't really like this method but it is still feasible, it's just that I choose another way to fatten my portfolio by means of DCA and of course taking advantage of the momentum in every downturn.
Regardless of whether debt is recommended or not I think everyone has their own perspective and as long as it is within reasonable limits and the goal is for btc I will like it :D

So in this condition, if I look at the overall strategy, it is clear that it is very important in this regard. Indeed, in some cases being greedy especially for bitcoin can still be said to be good but of course there are strategies and moments that must be seen because not all greed to be in bitcoin can be good and one of the reasons is as you said when everything is too much in terms of "crybaby or aggressive" not everything will go well.
On the other hand, standing too far and leaving is also not the right choice, we need to balance this so that in the end we can be wiser in taking action and taking advantage of every available momentum.

I don't know where they get the courage to do this type of investment. Borrowing for a risky investment and also bitcoin price is very volatile. People only do that out of pure greed and lack of knowledge. They only see the profit and ignore other side of bitcoin investment.

Only if you have money to lose, invest them in bitcoin.

Of course, there is some need to tailor whatever level of aggression that you decide to take in order that you don't go overboard in such a way that you are not able to cover your expenses and/or the servicing of any loan that you might end up getting to buy BTC.

For sure, getting a loan is not for everyone, and especially it might not be for someone who does not have a clear and certain enough of a cashflow to be able to service the loan and to pay it off at the end of its term.  It is also not free, so it already builds in some fees (and interest rate too) just to be able to enter into the relationship in which someone gives the loan... some of the better loans have real low interest rates and long periods, but of course, frequently it can be difficult to negotiate such favorable terms, and some people will be in better situations to be able to negotiate favorable terms and even in recent times, there are a lot of situations in which the terms of loans are not very favorable, but sometimes there still could be situations in which any of us might be able to get favorable loan terms..

And even NOT having favorable loan terms would not necessarily preclude the entering into a loan that any of us might consider has good odds of having terms in which we believe that we are going to be able to earn more by putting the money to use in ways that we want (including possibly buying BTC with the lended money). 

It's not an automatic yes or no answer, yet frequently people want to get into loans, and maybe they have not even attempted more basic approaches first, and surely with bitcoin we have seen that someone investing 4-10 years or longer may well be able to invest relatively modest amounts and to have been able to profit stupendously from that and another thing with long term wealth frequently it can take 20 to 30 or more years to build and some people never get there because they are engaging in the more risky strategies rather than ironing out and employing more basic strategies first, and bitcoin is one of those investments that allow anyone to enter and anyone can invest even relatively low amounts of value on a regular basis and to end up building more and more with the passage of time, and traditional investments had not necessarily been as friendly in regards to being able to regularly invest relatively modest amounts.. whether that is $100 per week or $10 per week or some other amount that is chosen by the person investing.. and if s/he can find ways to buy BTC with low fees (or low transaction costs), perhaps?


That's not true.

There are a lot of folks who have invested into bitcoin over the last 13 years or so, and surely the evidence shows the longer into bitcoin, and perhaps without selling too much BTC along the way, then the better off that people have done with their bitcoin investment, and so yeah sometimes overly greedy people ended up getting punished for their being greedy, and those are not necessarily ONLY bitcoin stories because some of those people were either fucking around with shitcoins or putting their BTC into yield products in which others were fucking around with their BTC and might not have even had their BTC because they were gambling with other people's BTC... so yeah, it may well have not been good to be getting involved with those kinds of risky products, but getting involved with BTC has generally been a good thing for those who have been in longer and who have errored on the side of BTC accumulation and holding and perhaps not selling too much of their BTC along the way, too.

Greed or aggressiveness will always be in our minds, but until now I can feel it's better to be able to control myself, even though we can't be separated from emotions, because that's human nature. from understanding the characteristics of bitcoin regarding the bullish or bearish season, we will be more comfortable in reacting to it and of course fluctuations are not an obstacle, if what we hold is bitcoin. let's say for example when it's bearish, why are we selling, isn't it better to look for a buy position to collect assets. hence the need to put cold money into action

You are right, Investing in Bitcoin by borrowing is not really a good. Because investing with debt, Bitcoin has the potential of not only profit but also loss. Now if you borrow and invest and suffer a loss, how do you repay your debt? According to me, if one has accumulated wealth, then it is better to invest for him.

What if you have a stable job but the interest rates of the loan are higher than usual? Would you still have the guts to take the loan? For me no but even if the interest rates are only normal I think I will still not take a loan only to buy BTC at the dip. I always have a bad feeling about loaning money ever since, because I already saw someone else who is struggling to pay his loans and he already sold some of his appliances only to pay some amounts because he is now being threatened by the lending company.

If BTC value is higher now, we can always wait for it go down but at the mean time, we can only set aside and stack some of our residual money from our salary. It will be a perfect timing to use once BTC is dipping heavily as that can also take time.

I strongly believe bitcoin has a great future ahead but, as others have already pointed out, what you did is extremely risky and frankly I would never do it. If you can't afford to buy a whole bitcoin right now you can simply buy a little every month, getting a loan with 10% interest to buy such a volatile asset like bitcoin is a huge risk, everything could happen. I wish you the best of course.

This is indeed a little difficult because indeed when making a loan to buy bitcoin we also need some considerations for that and one of the considerations is as you said.
The fact is that even though this is still good, this can only be done with a number of conditions, such as having conditions where you still have a steady income from the work you are doing now and already know what to do in paying off or installments that must be faced.
But in this case, I also don't feel that it's wrong to borrow to buy bitcoin because it really comes back to strategy and as long as we can afford it, we can do it too. But the average would definitely avoid this and I will also do that because indeed my choice not to be in a loan to a bank or to anyone to buy bitcoins is still the best decision I have at this time.

It was a very bad idea and approach in Bitcoin investment. I know you have bought at a good price point, and now you are in green. But still. With borrowed money? People always say, "Don't invest what you can't afford to lose." and yet you chose to borrow money from others. It would be wise if your own money percentage was higher, and you borrowed less from others. Like 75% to 25% ratio. That way, you could have repaid them by now. And also one beginner mistake you made was, you put all your money at one buy. Learn to DCA. Market is uncertain. You could have made more profits that way.
But what done is done. Hope you learn from your mistakes. Good luck with your HODLing. Hopefully you'll be able to pay them back at your promised interest.

Borrowing from a bank and just to buy those bitcoins is going to have some problems and of course other considerations I think it would be better to avoid it or never do it.

There are still ways that are really effective where we can buy bitcoins regularly without involving money from banks, for example, use 20% of your total salary every month, or there are other ways where you have side income so it can also be used to buy bitcoin while your salary will not be disturbed by this but the most important thing is how you can manage your cash flow properly.

Currently signature campaigns are quite effective as a side income that you can also do as an investment or sort of do the DCA method just like everyone else is doing.

The best decision to buy bitcoin is when you have managed all your needs.

More precisely, having own capital is much better to invest in Bitcoin than having to borrow money because you want to invest compulsorily in Bitcoin. I also agree with this point because investing with no debt is a very good solution because if someone invests with debt, he will feel two pressures that might not be too difficult to contain.

The first is pressure because he has debt and the second is pressure if he hasn't made a profit but it's time for the debt to be paid off. So in this case I think it's very clear that investing with your own capital, even if it's not big enough, is very much better than with bigger money but obtained by debt.

Actually, in conditions like this, when we are able to carry out an extreme strategy like OP, it can still be done because something like that cannot be said to be wrong, considering that in this case we have our own style of collecting bitcoins.
This is a strategy that in my opinion can be extreme and of course I don't want to do this but on the other hand the fact is there are still lots of people who can do this like OP or even more famous maybe Saylor who did this the same one.
As long as they are able to mitigate and anticipate all the consequences that will be received then it is not a problem.

I realy do not understand how people plan to earn taking loans they wouldn't close if assets wouldn't work

I am a new trader I want to buy a bitcoin but I don't know if it will come true I have accumulated some money slowly it is not possible to buy a bitcoin can I buy bitcoin now with a loan from the bank is there a chance for me to profit?  Have this question to all of you hope all will give good advice

Before buying BTC You need to have an understanding of the market. You can buy BTC step by step and make big funds. I would never recommend buying Bitcoin with a loan. Because no one knows exactly when Bitcoin will go up or down. Even if the price drops after you buy Bitcoin, you still have to pay the interest on the loan. Then sell your bitcoins at a loss. So, take a loan with care.

It should not be very difficult to understand.  If the price moves in your favor, then you make more by being able to buy early, so it remains a kind of gamble - whether the one who takes the loan has the cashflow to cover the loan or not.. Of course, no one should be taking loans if they do not have backup means to cover the servicing of the loan and the payoff amount when it comes due.

The one who does not make sure that s/he has cashflow to cover the loan in spite of the asset's performance (in this case bitcoin's price performance) is the one who is failing/refusing to adequately assess downside risk, and likely should not be employing such leveraging tools to gamble (when they might believe that they are trying to invest, but they end up employing a gambling strategy with an investment asset.. in this case bitcoin)...


The best way to start buying bitcoin is little by little (dollar cost averaging methods are really good for beginners) and to figure out your financial situation so that you manage your cashflow and other aspects of your finances and psychology, and likely the longer that you buy into bitcoin and build your investment portfolio, then the more likely you will be able to learn and to figure out ways to start to employ more sophisticated tools, such as forms of financing (such as loans or whatever other tools that you might decide to use), but even more sophisticated BTC buyers don't necessarily fuck around with those kinds of financing tools because instead of becoming rich, they get reckt because they don't know what they are doing.. or how to play bitcoin's volatility.. which is a quite difficult task.. and part of the reason that slowly buying in and learning along the way tends to be much better than getting loans.

That's the truth; there's a saying that "if someone places their treasure on something, that's where their mind will always be." The OP understands that he needs to buy one bitcoin, so he looked for available means to get loans and acquire the one bitcoin he chose to have. I am not sure, but even before Op decides to go ahead with his plans, he has already understood about the volatility of Bitcoin and made plans on how he can repay the loan. With the current price of Bitcoin, if the OP wants to repay the loan, whose total interest is 18% ($15,320), he will still be left with $12980 (he has still made a profit of $6980). That's a good strategy for OP and good timing.


If we go by what the OP has said, he made mention that if he's able to make about 100-500% in 2 years, then he can repay those debts, which means the loan he took is to be repaid in two years with just 10% interest to the bank and 8% to his uncle. It's really good timing for OP, and he still has enough time to repay the loan. From when he created this thread, June this year will make it one year, so the OP still has a year plus some months to repay the loan, plus the fact that next year is Bitcoin's halving. The Bitcoin price always increase during it's halving period, so if the OP hold till next year halving season, he will have made a good profit to have repaid the loan. Read OP's statement in the code below.



Also @tjtonmoy, I really agree with you that DCA is a good strategy when investing in bitcoin, and if the OP had used DCA, he would have made more profit because the Bitcoin price dropped below $20,000 after he bought his 1 bitcoin. But the good news is that the OP has aquire the one bitcoin he desired and is overjoyed.

Dear OP as much as am happy for you being a BTC holder, taking a loan to buy a crypto asset is not a smart move, especially one that is volatile and it's something I would totally kick against. I don't see any special feeling in holding 1 BTC, you would have been contented with what you have and use the $6000 from your savings to buy it instead of incurring debts on yourself.

You can buy bitcoins with the money you have right now even with $10 or $20 you can own bitcoins, so why not? But if you are slow in collecting to buy bitcoin then choose the DCA method and we often say things with even small money if you remain consistent in this way you can continue to accumulate bitcoins for every money you have.

If you want a loan from a bank then to buy bitcoin but are you able to cover the need where you have to pay each maturity date? While the average for bitcoin holders is for the long term so it won't be profitable in the near future unless you trade and of course it's not easy.

It's better what you can afford to do than forcing a bank loan but it will be difficult for you to pay the monthly later.

Things like this are actually still possible to happen and I think it's not too difficult to understand when they know the consequences.
When borrowing, of course we know the risks and they are also aware that investing in bitcoin is not as easy as turning the palm of the hand, so they know when they try to borrow and invest in bitcoin for the loan, they will know the consequences when bitcoin goes down and the assets they have are not develop.
But I think the point is not there, when they borrow, they must be ready for all conditions including payment and of course they have thought from the start how to repay their loan collateral without having to expect bitcoin first.
An example might be the current well-known case of Saylor, who has the concept of bitcoin maximalism, who even dared to take out a US$250 million loan in 2022.
He is aware of the consequences and he knows that he won't immediately benefit practically here but he still does things like that with his convictions even though we think things like this are too reckless but still for some people things like this can still happen.

The conditions are the same here, we cannot say that those who borrow only to invest in bitcoin are reckless because indeed it is the best option they have, it's just that the way is different from us, who collect little by little doesn't mean they are wrong I think.

Your desire seems admirable and intriguing, however getting a bank loan or doing anything else to invest in bitcoin or cryptocurrency is not a good idea. It would be better to use your small business to invest in bitcoin while it is still operating and you still have some cash on hand than to take out a loan, in my opinion.

You can invest in bitcoin with the little you have; it's not really necessary to go out and get a loan first. Keep in mind that cryptocurrency is not a life or death venture. Because of this, I don't actually borrow money to buy bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Generally speaking, I only invest money that I can afford to lose,I've always been afraid of the risk involved, which is why I didn't take out a loan to invest in bitcoin. God forbid, what if the market arrives and fails to go as planned?

Are you really certain that this will really happen in 2 years time period? It's all about calculation and prediction, which are never 100% accurate. And what about risk management?
Let's say that OP did a good choice, choosing the time and price, and now he's making profits. Let's imagine the same scenario with a different user who will buy after watching this post and getting inspired from it. I am not against HODL and long term investment. But just imagine, someone else took some huge loan in order to invest in bitcoin.
The bull market starts, and as we all know, it doesn't stay high for a long period of time. It will drop again. What if the price drops below your buying value?
How long are you going to HODL again? And how are you going to repay your loan with interest? That's why it is best to invest what belongs to you and some small amount of loans that you are able to repay in short time in this event.(Taking loan for BTC investment is never a good idea).

I was only judging based on the OP's statement. But honestly, I also fall into the category of the scenario you gave; the difference in my case is that I did not borrow the money I invested with. During the 2021 bull market, I bought a little fraction of Bitcoin, and my hope was that Bitcoin price could bump to $100k, at which point I would just sell and take my profit, but my plans were futile because the price could not get to $100k and we went into a bear market in 2022. In the OP's case, I can say he's lucky, but I will not tell any of my friends or anyone reading this not to invest in bitcoin. I can only advise them about the risks involved in taking out a loan before investing in bitcoin; if they choose to go ahead with it, I can't force them to stop.

Investing in bitcoin is not something you reap in the following day or week, so if one take loan to invest how does he plan to back the loan. Though there are some loans that the lender or the lending company gives to the borrower to pay back after 3 to 4 years but those loans interest rate is very high which you might even used everything you got from the investment to pay the loan and at the end you loss out. And that is no capital and no income. You invest for the lender and not for yourself. So that is why people are advised not to borrow and Invest on bitcoin because the risk that is involved is very high. But if the you have alternative ways to pay back the loan on time then you can borrow and Invest.

I'll start by congratulating you on your decision to buy bitcoin. You made a mistake by taking out a loan to buy bitcoin. I assume you are aware that while $6k is a significant sum of money and can be used to purchase some bitcoin, buying one bitcoin in full is not necessary before investing in bitcoin. Instead, you can use your meager earnings to buy bitcoin.What if the market doesn't perform as you expected it to and you've taken out loans? Since investing in bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies isn't a do-or-die decision, you should be calm and financially stable before doing so. If you've already spent all of your money and are still taking out loans, what will happen when you run into financial difficulties? You can still go get a new loan to fix the issue.

I have planning like OP want getting loan in the bank and use it for investing in Bitcoin, right now price have increasing up maybe need waiting few days or weeks later for bitcoin back to lower price and has bigger chance to earn profit. I am excited with OP planning brave for getting loan in the bank and use it for investing in Bitcoin.  Congrats with OP achievement and how investment progress right now have been success earn much profit and all bank loan have repay?

If investment during Bitcoin under $20,000 seems has chance for OP getting profit because last week Bitcoin success break out to $30,000 and great opportunity with profit earning and enough repaying bank loan.

For sure OP got into hard times in the past months because it was very rough for him with the price and right now he sees green.  Though it was risky move on my end and for sure for couple of weeks i cant sleep well thinking about my loans and borrowed money , though most of all of us will say it is not good idea to take out a loan but you have it already so what i do suggest is try to find like another source of income while holding your bitcoin just to be safe that you can pay off your debts.

If you act like that, you will most likely have difficulty paying off your debts, especially the debts you have with the bank, for the debts you owe your uncle, that is lighter, because they are your relatives, and there are no monthly installments. . But it's different from the debt that you have to the bank, with predetermined interest, you are also definitely required to pay monthly installments, and there shouldn't be any arrears. If you are in arrears for more than three months, it is certain that the bank will confiscate your goods, which you used as collateral.

How many posts have there been, how many hundreds of people have discussed in this forum, that you should never invest in bitcoin/crypto, using money from loans, especially from banks. because all of that has a very big risk, so don't ever force it let alone borrow to invest.

And in essence you have to look at what has happened to many people, about what they have experienced as a result of borrowing from banks. Just a little at a time, don't be too hasty, to invest or buy bitcoin. Just make it a lesson for the future.

First of all making investment with the money of loan is not advisable decision because its very risky and there are more chances of win and also more chances of losing money. So try to initiate investment with your own money if you don't have any money then just wait for getting money instead of taking loan from someone other.

Just loan is not good idea but your remaining thoughts are appreciable and as you have invested money in Bitcoin in 2022 so there was not much increase in price so when two years will completed your profit will be double or may be greater than this because now Bull run is Initiated so try to hold it till 2024.

That's what I would do too, I think it's a pretty awesome that you haabe a source of income without the worry of your bitcoin being spent for emergency and rest easy throughout the whole ride towards the bull run. Debts and loans are a haard stuff to deal with especially if you have a family to provide to, debt and loan is inevitable if you're salary isn't enough.

If the salary from the main job is not enough to support the family, of course it is very difficult if someone does not get a loan or loan to cover this. But that doesn't mean it can't be tricked into making enough of it, because everyone can still find other solutions such as a side job to make ends meet to provide for their family. So that he can also save the Bitcoin assets that he already has without having to just spend them under any circumstances.

You make a decent point Dzwaafu11.

Many times when we are younger and we are building our investment portfolios, we fail/refuse to sufficiently/adequately prepare for emergencies, and part of any preparation for an emergency would be to have cushions of credit that we could be able to draw upon in the event that shit-hits-the-fan, and if we have gone through considerable measures to fill our various credit avenues, then there are fewer and fewer options available... ...

And, sure many times, I have already asserted that I am not against the idea of using credit, front loading an investment (when cashflow might not currently be enough) or even building credit for reasons that might not necessarily be obvious winners, but it seems to be the case that many times younger (and less sound) investors will be taking undue risks - which has fewer possibilities of actually building credit and/or coming out well.

Another thing is that I get the sense that OP has probably already fucked up this whole situation in which s/he had taken out the two loans in June 2022.. since s/he has been silent in terms of any status update in the last several months (and also an inactive account), but sure it is possible that s/he had been able to ride out the negative price movement and NOT to panic and then to go from being in negative territories towards current positive territories, in the event that s/he had been able to ride out the fairly long downfall (about 9 months from June 2022 to March 2023-ish.. and not even saying for sure that we are out of the volatility or the possibility that OP might end up going back into the negative in the event that no actions are taken).

It is risky to take a such step but if your risk appetite can accommodate it, why not. In your case, it was a success but it is a high risk.
For me, I may borrow a little to test now that the Bitcoin price is low and if it failed I will accept my fate. All the best to all the risk-takers.

Taking a loan for an investment purpose is not bad but they are facts that needs to be there before you can actually take a loan which is the medium in which you are to pay the dept and the interest added to it because without you having a tangible means of paying back, you could just end up entangling yourself to more loans because as we all know a bitcoin investment take times because any good profit could be seen so you must have an alternative means of paying such loan especially if you are using for a bitcoin investment.

You sound like you do not know what the fuck you are talking about - absent that you are gambling.

If we are talking about investing, which seems to have had been the topic of this thread (at least the attempt that was being made) rather than gambling, then we consider a variety of factors, including that we want to attempt to both grow our principle and also to preserve our principle.

Of course, even OP was talking as if he was wanting to use a couple of loans in order to engage in investing, but the punchline was that OP was engaging in a kind of a gambling, too... even though he seems to have had not realized that he was gambling... which happens with a lot of folks who overly optimistically calculate the upside potential without really seeming to adequately and seriously account for other possible scenarios and then to weigh their behaviors based on the total variety of possibilities..   

Specifically, taking a loan to invest in a volatile asset like Bitcoin is a risky thing to do. Unless the person taking the loan has some other source of income they can use to repay their loan when it is overdue. If not so, all the effort and time they spend holding and investing in that asset may just be futile, because when they are faced with a situation where their loan is overdue and their Bitcoin investment has not produced much profit, they may even be forced to sell just to cover their loan, and when that happens, they have just lost everything about the Bitcoin investment.

That is probably the best description or phrase I have read about what investing means! I thought about your sentence for a second and it's true, investing is a skill that you build over time. Some people are gifted and can start at a higher level as they are less susceptible to emotional fluctuations, but ultimately it is the same for everyone. Develop a principle, much like a habit, and adjust (or rather improve) when necessary if certain conditions change.

When I read your sentence at first I had to think about Yoga or any other kind of activity that needs mental focus, stability and persistence. Then I thought that what you said is absolutely true and I could find myself in your words. Started "investing" without realizing that I was actually gambling and over time turned my gambling back into investing. The problem is that gamblers can get lucky and start building their principles on a flawed foundation. Then it depends when they get crushed for the first time. If they are lucky it happens early on with minimum financial damage, which gives them the chance to reconsider. But you know, even a lot of folks who got crushed with their gambling attitudes don't have what it needs to actually fundamentally reconsider their approach.

Risk takers are adapted to accept their fate in the market, they're ready to accept what the market have for them, without doubts, prepared your mind and ern the accolades when the results is out. Taking risks is absolutely one of the sector that fuels the gigantic profits of the market. I borrowed only when I'm sure my rewards is worth the investment. Risks is a regular basis of the market, making extra further step inother to grab good Opportunities in trading is my priority, no giving up on trade even when it's crystal clear prove wrong by the trends in thr market.

I don't know why still trading or long-term investing is very risky in this case, even if you look at the certainty of the market at certain opportunities if you don't count the profits and losses and the loan calculations and calculate what percentage of profits and losses it will look worse and you only relying on your predictive ability, basically no one guarantees bitcoin price fluctuations,
If you are a trader, I think it's better for you to use your money, even if it's a small amount, at least you can accumulate profits first to start with bigger capital than you use borrowed money.
Don't take a situation where you will be in too much trouble if everything you plan is going to kill you if something goes wrong.

It's a real risk, but no success comes without a trade-off. And after all, now that he is profitable on his investment, I can say that he has succeeded with that plan. He bought bitcoin for 20k, and in less than 1 year, it gave him 50% profit. Right or wrong, everything has happened, and he is winning with his plan, we should congratulate him rather than criticize him. I don't recommend people borrow money to invest, but if they're willing to take the risk and know what they're doing, borrowing money to invest shouldn't be a problem.

It's an amazing story.  I think you've made a great move.  If the debtor has an interest of 18% per year and your crypto has a profit of 100% per year that is an advantage for you.  I have also done the same with your story.  I have taken money to open my business to invest in crypto and I have been getting bigger profits from opening a business I thought.

I think in my mind it's the foolish ever decision to buy a volatile asset like Bitcoin on a money which are borrowed from any other bank or guy with a different monthly interest rate. According to Bitcoin chart movement after every bull season Bitcoin price dump alot, so you have a lot of opportunities to buy small small about of Bitcoin at cheap price by hand earn money instead of taking loan and buying fully one Bitcoin.
I know it will worth later, but let suppose if some hack your account or some how you lose your wallet phrases then it will be very tough situation for you because the interest rate will be increased with time and time and you will have no money to payback. So before taking such kind of decision you must need backup plan too to normalize the situation..

You've ventured bravely into crypto's uncharted territory, and I'm ecstatic for you. It's a rare occasion when one pursues a dream and manifests it into existence.

I must admit, your methods elicit a chuckle. Borrowing and smashing piggy banks may appear precarious, but fortune favors the bold. And gauging by your fervor, I'd wager this daring leap will yield substantial dividends.

Your upbeat attitude and lofty aspirations are admirable. Clutching that Bitcoin for a few spins around the sun could very well spawn an enviable fortune. With those profits, debt repayment will be child's play. It's as if you've cracked a clandestine code to monetary triumph, unbeknownst to the masses.

Hearing and knowing that individuals genuinely take loans for stuff like this is great and shocking at the same time. Obtaining a loan to invest in an unstable asset like Bitcoin is absolutely the most careless idea ever, not to mention incredibly hazardous. Although there is a chance that it won't, there is also an amazing probability that it will not, and that is most likely always the case - it doesn't pay off, adding to your problems.

If you made an investment, it doesn't means that you did a right thing especially if that money that you use is a debt and you are still starting out. Maybe if you are already have experiences in the market and you know how to make money from it and understand some advanced concepts then I can agree that getting a loan and making investment is really good idea but the scenario is the guy is takes a loan and quickly buy a bitcoin without having a prior experience and foundation about bitcoin. For me it is a bad move especially if you bought during a transition of the market where it turns out to be bearish.

Making an investment is not simple as many people as they think, it is not just putting your money on specific asset. You should always consider on the capital that you will use in order for this investment, and also the timing regarding when you will invest your money. The timing is very important because the opportunities are not always present, identifying the best entry point is very crucial especially if you really want to have high returns in the future.

I support your decision, OP, if you don't take risks, there can be no success, success requires trade-offs. Many people said you were too risky but now you are profitable, that proves them wrong. If it were me, I would also borrow money to invest because I believe in bitcoin and believe in my abilities.

Everything we normally do in life has risk to take enable to move to another level, when it comes for money making, here in cryptocurrency industries, especially Bitcoin to get rich is sure, but not to go Rich quick business, because no one can predict Bitcoin next level of price, but it requires patience and time and also have another plan to pay back money borrowed, if the prediction goes wrong. But for sure about Bitcoin is a gradual process added values appreciative business.

If investing was as easy as it seems, then everyone would become an investor and could make good money on it, but the truth is that it is very difficult, and if we are talking about investing with borrowed money, then this is almost always a losing strategy. To become an investor, you need to have good capital for this, buying a bitcoin for a couple of thousand dollars does not mean becoming an investor.

That's a cool loan offer you got their OP but I can never go on such route like you did, because I will be in worries for that 2 years, it will look like a whole millennium for me and I will worry about what could happen, what I may not be able to control and stuff, Bitcoin is still a risky investment and I can never advise anyone to go take a loan for such investment idea, it's a bad and risky strategy.

This is another good example of people going "do or die" on bitcoin, we all wish to have 1 Bitcoin but we don't have to go extra miles to make the dream come true, you have a loan on your neck and you don't know how Bitcoin will perform in future.

If investing in Bitcoin could tempt you to acquire loan for the sake of investing well definitely it is not a good idea. What if after you invest in bitcoin your investment fall really really hard, there is no assurance that your investment can regain in 2 long years. It is good to compute how much the returns on your investment will be, but how realistic it is? Everyone is dreaming of investing in bitcoin but make sure that you have enough funds to invest. As we all know in crypto currency we should always bear in our minds that we should only invest what we can afford to loose. Never ever invest if you will just loan the funds, you might end up loosing. I had already heard a lot of stories borrowing from the banks and cannot even pay the loan plus the interest and the interest continue to grow with surcharge additional.

Taking risks is necessary for success, but it is also necessary to be aware of the dangers involved and make informed judgments. While it is true that success necessitates trade-offs, it is also critical to weigh the risks and rewards before making any financial decisions. Believing in oneself and the success of one's investment blindly might result in big losses.

This is a good decision with risk, though life is about risk.  Your prediction of two years might work well for you considering some factors that are expected to play out  in years ahead. However, it is not advisable to borrow such huge amount of money to invest on volatile asset such as bitcoins, it will be more preferable if you use your own earn money on a gradual accumulation strategy. Bitcoin adoption is increasing on daily basis, but one can not tell the next move of governments as we have seen some countries restricting the use of bitcoins. In some cases, countries where mining is most carried out also face some restriction challenges. To be more safer, i humbly advice that you get some jobs that can help you pay back the loan if the expectations does not come through as predicted. This will stabilize you irrespective of the market position.
 

It's too risky to have to borrow from other people to invest even if it's in Bitcoin, because if you believe in your own abilities, you should also know the limits of your ability to invest. Not even borrowing to make investments, because that will really burden you beyond your own ability. So invest wisely and also in accordance with your own abilities, not by forcing your will by taking a loan, because the intended risk is on our own capital, not on taking a loan to make an investment.

Maybe he also doesn't fully understand the level of risk that he should know and sort according to his needs. The point of taking risks for success is to have the courage to make a move based on a decision after making research first, not to dare to take a loan for an investment. I still think it's ridiculous if someone who wants to invest has to make a loan first, because for me that's not courage in taking risks, but recklessness in taking risks.

literally for me i don't really recommend taking a loan from the bank and make an investment if you're not sure it can be profitable or a loss you should always think not just once but twice if it's worth given a shot. risky is always there in making investment since it has ups and downs so you better think first, you can buy a little or if you have extra money then but you should invest what you can afford to lose.

But again OP has already purchased it and we don't have a choice, for sure he has a hard time in the past months but right now he already seen green from his investment unless he ain't sold it in the past months. What I've suggest is that continue holding more a year or 2 after the halving to see the result. Also I've just got a question in my mind to OP is he still paying the loan? or he already paid it off?

This story would have been more convenient if you had use your own personal money only in taking up such bitcoin investment plan, as it's never a wise or advisable idea to take up loan to finance bitcoin investment.

The two years investment plan you have put in mind to keep hoping to get back between 100% - 500% profit is under probability to come through, this is because the market is a volatile one and there's a possibility that the market may experience a bad moment by then. In such situation what then is your contingency plan in repaying your loans?

You emerge as a successful investor with the mindset you invest with. When you buy 1 bitcoin for $20000 you often have a profit of over $9000+ nowadays. It shows that you can repay the loan that you have taken from the bank with the profit money. But I know you still hold your investment. Maybe if you can hold your investment till 2024 you can earn maximum in life. There are many people, not all of them can take the kind of risk that you take and show that you are truly a successful investor. I wish you success in your investment. I also had the same thoughts as you but I didn't dare to take the loan due to which I failed in the investment. I am investing some of the money I earn from here.

The way I think about it is that you should never invest in Bitcoin by taking out a loan. You have taken a loan from the bank and also borrowed money from your uncle and not a small amount of money but a lot of money you are in debt right now. You had $6k which was enough to invest, which you could have done without taking out a loan. You bought bitcoins in a two year plan how will you pay off that much debt if the price of bitcoins doesn't increase as you thought.  Although, according to your information, you have made around $9K in profits on Bitcoin investments, you can still sell your investments and pay off your debt and reinvest the rest of your money, because if the market collapses in any way from this situation, then  It will never be good for you.

It doesn't feel like it's been almost 1 year (less than 2 months) since you Op made a thread about your experience to get 1 bitcoin. And you achieved it last year even though you were assisted with the money from the loan. And you said to hold on for a few years didn't you. and if you are still holding it then I think today you are smiling broadly. because the current bitcoin price has almost touched $ 30,000USD. And it seems that your courage last year can produce good results. and if you continue to hold firmly then it is possible that the profits you have will multiply again.

Do not borrow money to invest in bitcoin or risky assets like crypto. But in OP's case, he didn't mention if he has any other source of income because if he has a good job and stable income then getting an investment loan won't be a problem too big to deal with. In case he doesn't have a good income and depends only on investment, then I will also disagree with OP's decision, it is very risky as there is no guarantee bitcoin will be profitable in the next two years. While we all believe that bitcoin will hit ATH in the future, nothing is certain. Depending on the circumstances of each person, we do not need to be too strict in borrowing money to invest.

There is no evidence that OP had been able to hold through the dip period, service the loans, not panic through the whole period, and therefore still be in profits, currently.

So I would not presume that he was able to successfully carry out his intended play, merely based on his having had told us that he was going to do it.

There are decent odds that OP ended up getting reckt as fuck.. and that is part of the reason that he has not been providing any updates in the past 10 months or so, and there is even some of his posting evidence to show that he had not been managing his cashflow sufficiently in order to really play out the UPs and then DOWNs of the whole last 10 months and to see the light of day after our BTC price recovery that had largely been happening since late December (early January), but instead, OP may well have had fucked himself in this whole gambling matter and did not have abilities to sufficiently service the loan and to pay his own living expenses during the down period..

And, even his last post on the forum (in late October, right before the BTC crash that related to finding out that FTX didn't have the bitcoins they claimed to have had had), he was asking for a non-collateralized personal loan..

For reference, look at this:



OP did not seem to have had thought the matter through as thoroughly as you suggested Litzki1990.


You (Jatiluhung) seem to be presuming that OP was able to hold through the whole period and service the loan without getting reckt in the process.. I am not going to presume that based on the facts in front of us... and reasonable inferences that can be made from OP's lack of posting (mosty disappearance from the forum) since October.

I see many people disagree with OP's decision, but one thing people have overlooked is that people didn't check the market conditions and compare with the price the op bought. I mean, OP was profitable, and he succeeded with his plan. When investing, are we interested in the process or the results? For me, the final result is what I care about, and the OP succeeded. Don't forget, there is no success without trade-offs.

According to the majority here, I also do not like to borrow money to invest in bitcoin because it is quite risky. I like to invest from my idle or savings and as long as it won't affect my life. I know it takes a risk to succeed but for such a large sum I wouldn't recommend it to anyone nor would I do the same thing that OP did.

You should not forced yourself from owning Whole Bitcoin mate because I don't see the logic at all? when you already have 6k with interest and for me that is big enough to start getting chunk of bitcoin.

let me ask you a question , what is the difference from having whole Bitcoin that you need to take  a loan or borrowed money than having 6k worth of bitcoin but you have no obligation at all and that is your full responsibilities?

sorry mate but I find this unethical way of being bitcoin investor.

remember the saying that we must only invest what we can avail to risk.

You are just making shit up.. based on what you hoped had happened.

Yes, we know what the price did, but we do not know how OP actually dealt with the situation, including that he did not really seem to have any cashflow to service the debt during the down period that ended up happening.


I doubt that anyone is against taking a loan if you have your shit together, but people are against taking a loan and not being able to be financially and psychologically prepared for BTC price moves in either direction, in the event that the decision ends up being to take the loan.  OP did not seem to be prepared for the whole duration of the UPs and the DOWNs... even though the BTC price did end up recovering above his purchase price... but it took a decently long period of down before up, which was in the ballpark of at least 7 months.. and even then, it has not really been clear about the recovery for the whole time.. remember the dip below $20k in March?

so if we include the dip below $20k in March, then clearly we had more like 9 months of uncertainty... and decent amounts of time of price negativity.. including that even now, there might be some comfort in regards to the BTC price being in the positive.. but it still is not certain that the price is going to stay above the $20k entry point for the remainder of the loan period, in the even that OP has not already been completely reckt. if he were to provide an actual report that is based on actual facts rather than his earlier fantasies.

Unfortunately, he didn't mention his income or current jobs, so we can't say he failed to get hold of his bitcoins either. Yes, what I am saying is based on the current bitcoin price and the price at which he bought it, if it goes according to plan, then he will make a profit on his investment. I hope he gets back on topic to shed some light on this, personally, I don't think he failed.

Yes, we need to find out how things are with loans in order to understand whether the OP was able to pay them back and how much he had to overpay in the end, that is, to understand what the final purchase price of bitcoin was for him. If in the case of an uncle, he can somehow agree, then such a trick will not work with the bank.

His plan might work, but I wouldn't mess with bank loans to buy bitcoin, I've been sticking to my strategy since the beginning of 2022 and buying bitcoin every week, I didn't worry all this time that I need to repay debts and pay interest on credit. But I don’t want to say that my strategy is better or worse, in the end, any strategy that makes a profit will be good, but for this they need to wait for the bull market and see how much bitcoin can rise to.

You might be correct, but the so far evidence does not seem to support such conclusions... and surely anyone who invests into bitcoin or even engages in fairly risky strategies can likely attest to the fact that it is way more difficult to maintain a prudent and persistent strategy during periods in which you overleveraged yourself... so surely, sometimes people are able to persist in terms of actually achieving positive outcomes during such hostile periods, but many times it is quite difficult to achieve such ends, especially when overly leveraged (and largely ONLY preparing for ONE bitcoin price direction.. which was UP).. which seems to have had been the case of OP back in late June 2022 when he started down his loan for bitcoin journey that was somewhat based on a superficial fantasy desire to "own one whole bitcoin"... which he could not even fairly proclaim to have had achieved, when the bitcoin that he supposedly acquired was not even paid in full, but instead a mere symbol of holding more value than he could actually afford to hold, and then the BTC price moved against him, and not just for a short period of time, but for somewhere in the ballpark of 7 months.. and even longer... if we really want to attempt to appreciate actual "on the ground" facts of what actually happened in recent times involving OP's behavior and involving the BTC price.


Yep.  For sure, there are a variety of ways to attempt to measure your own bitcoin progress, and results are going to vary in terms of maximizing performance, which likely is not even achievable for most people and likely should not even be a practical goal that people attempt to achieve. 

Surely there are ways to tailor your goals to your own financial and psychological circumstances, and surely many of us can likely point out to times and our own behaviors in which we made various mistakes along the way, but likely our mistakes are going to be less if we are mostly attempting to employ our own circumstances and not get forced into overly stressful circumstances that are stressful upon our finances and therefore stressful upon our psychology too.

Many of us in bitcoin likely feel quite good with the passage of a lot of time that we have been able to stack sats over the years, and even if we might not have stacked as many sats as we could have stacked, we are likely quite satisfied with ourself if we are able to continue to stack during periods of downward BTC price performance and not to end up losing bitcoin along the way.. and likely that we come out of such periods with more BTC than we had before such periods had started... and sure it could take 4-10 years or longer to really be able to measure a decent amount of meaningful wealth being created and even compounded upon.. .. and surely there likely are going to be various points along the way to be able to meaningfully reassess our own strategies to make sure that we are making progress or feel that we are making progress.. and surely even in the past 2-3 years, there are still a lot of BTC HODLers and accumulators who might still be under water, and sometimes might not even feel comfortable with keeping on stacking sats, and at the same time some of those folks just continue to persist to stack sats, and surely it seems that they are going to benefit down the road.. even though at the same time, it is not guaranteed that they will benefit.. even if bitcoin still seems to be amongst the best asymmetrical bets that is currently available to a large number of people (if not the best asymmetric bet.. no guarantees).

The OP undoubtedly took a big risk. But his risk has worked out positively. According to the current price of Bitcoin he is now profiting if he holds it. OP bought a bitcoin in $20000 so he is able to withdraw approximately 50% of his investment at the current price. If he is able to use other financial sources to pay off his debt then he is heading for a large amount of profit. Although I never agree to buy bitcoins from bank loan. In this case I am using DC like you. Because for those who do not have enough money, buying bitcoins in this way will be very effective. But I'm impressed with the confidence by the OP about Bitcoin. Hopefully he will make large profit by the long-term investment.

You are assuming facts not in evidence.

Sure we have evidence that the BTC price went up (like you mentioned), but you are assuming that OP did not fuck it up somewhere between the time he took the loans in June-ish 2022 and the time that BTC price finally recovered (which largely was not UNTIL AFTER mid-January.. and not even sustained recovery above the $20k-ish levels (plus costs to service loans) until recently.. so far.. ). 

Now, I will agree that if OP had actually made it through the whole period without panicking, until now, then he would have a decent cushion, even assuming some costs of servicing the loans in the past 10 months or so.

Based on several education I learned about loan and seems effective with 20% loan amount than our assets have, there are not recommended for trader of investor take loan and investing in bitcoin without have money back up when floating or bitcoin drop suddenly. Getting loan in the bank we need collateral ownership documents and has expensive values than how much loan take in the Bank. Investing in Bitcoin is good decision but I don't think worth when getting loan in the bank and have use for capital to start invest in Bitcoin.

Better spent in daily day above $10 and invest in Bitcoin from our salary than getting loan and faced difficult later when loan repayment if Bitcoin price still drop.

In conclusion, using borrowed money to buy investment assets, especially bitcoin, is an action that can plunge us into a worse situation, plus the price of bitcoin is difficult to predict, even if someone understands technically and the history of bitcoin movements, predictions are still for the future. is very difficult, because we will not know what situations bitcoin will encounter on its way.

What the OP did was too reckless in terms of investing in my opinion, it's better for me to use the remaining money from my needs every month, and invest in bitcoin with the DCA strategy and collect it until it becomes a round count of 1 bitcoin, behavior like what the OP did very risky in investing, and I don't know how he was doing when bitcoin had a big FUD to hit the price of $15k.

Maybe today we are talking that now bitcoin hits $30k,, meaning OP has a 50% profit from his total investment last year, that is if he manages to get past his panic and fear period in the final quarter of 2022, if he actually fails to hold on in that period , I can't think how he can calm down with his debts.
Therefore it is important to carry out a DCA strategy to maintain your stability in investing in bitcoin, especially the year after ATH bitcoin.

The interest rate is what I don't like, even if Bitcoin can surprise you easily with the perfect timing I don't want to put myself in an angle of unrest, maybe its just me but taking loan for some thing as risky as Bitcoin could give me high blood pressure and to avoid such I always stay away from every loans, from Banks or not.

Some people are very good at using loan and it always work out well as they plan but I am not one of them, I did tried in the past and things start falling apart after a while, gave a try later, and its same result, I wonder if loan favors some people more than others or maybe it has something to do with me.

It is not advisable to take a loan for a Bitcoin investment, if the price dips more how are you going to pay back the loan, the risk here is on the high side.

The interest rate too is something else, although you have chosen what you want, yes, you are at risk alone, but one thing is sure, the movement of Bitcoin is difficult to understand, one needs to be careful when investing, that's why is not a good idea to invest in bitcoin with a borrowed money.

Its not only about the Bitcoin rate going dip. But actually we should also consider some other factors that affects debt repayment such as, Economy status, family issues, trade market crisis, Money Ego,Pleasures, Hacks/Attacks and more. So its better to stay at the brighter side on investing with the little you have to avoid risky investment.

That situation if you do not have collateral to pay your debt, of course it is a compassion if it forces yourself without preparation when a bad situation occurs.
But if you have collateral to pay your debt, you don't need to sell the bitcoin loss that you have when the price is down and when the debt payment time is due, then you will not be too dizzy in handling the problem because there is already previous preparation.

What is done by OP if he calculated he already had the advantage of his investment last year, and also he was not even two years to pay his debt, there was still plenty of time for him, and possibly in the following year he could have the ROI he aspires to.
The answer he strongly believes in the power of Bitcoin.

I doubt that Op is in the green (positive returns) right now, especially since he has not been participating in this thread.. and his last posts in October 2022 were soliciting loans.. which was showing desperation even before the further bitcoin crashening in November 2022.

Sure, he should be in profits right now, but he would have had to have been able to have hung onto his bitcoin through more than two months of being in a kind of heavy negative, without panicking..

And I have my doubts that OP was able to hang onto his situation (and his BTC) without panicking, yet don't call me a hater - since I would be more than happy to hear good news from OP in terms of having had been able to hang onto his bitcoin through November, December and January.. and also the other largely flatness (and negativities) of the last year.. but yeah, he would currently be about 50% up if he had been able to hold onto his bitcoin throughout the last year (from the time that he started this thread).

Your point is reasonable, there is a lot of risk involved in investing and many things can happen at any time as a result of this risk. So I also think that investing by borrowing is not expected. Although my investment journey started with loans. When I lost my job in 2020 I became very helpless and destitute. A distant relative of mine is a successful Bitcoin investor. With some idea about Bitcoin from him. I invested in Bitcoin with a small loan. Today I am very independent. If I hadn't gotten good at investing, I might have been broke. But by God's infinite mercy it did not happen like that. From my experience I think, if there is no capacity to repay the loan. Then it is better not to invest by borrowing

It seems to me that you have made an important decision by deciding to buy 1 bitcoin despite not having enough money initially. I understand that you had a fixed deposit of $6,000 in the central bank, but what a surprise that the bank gave you a loan for $10,000 in such a simple way, they almost always tend to be tedious and never end up giving the loan but good for you, do This type of investment carries many risks in itself and even more so when you made a double loan, I don't know whether to tell you if you made a good decision or not since I like the idea of investing in BTC but I don't really like the idea of loans …although if all goes well you could easily pay off your debts, including 18-19% average interest over 2 years, averaging around 9% APR. The future is uncertain and I somewhat disagree that Bitcoin will reach stratospheric prices in 2 years

That being said, I wish you the best in your decision and I hope you can achieve your financial goals. Always remember to do a thorough analysis daily and be aware of any adversity I hope you achieve your goal.

It is not only an important decision but also an extremely risky one because borrowing money to invest in a highly volatile asset like bitcoin. But as long as you can still repay that loan, even if you don't need the results of that investment, borrowing to invest can be considered.
I know people will say OP is taking risks and being too reckless, but I believe he has his own plan. He's not a newcomer to the market, so he knows what he's doing with his life and money.

but this is the riskiest form of how to accumulate and invest in cryptocurrency as we knew that there is no assurance when we will be seeing the growth.
yes there is always a proof and speculation that each halving will provide better result but what if we fail? what if we did not meet what we expected?
since the borrowed money increases interest?
lucky if we will find a person or company that we will elt us borrow without interest and with long term stance , but trust me this is rarely to happen.

Investing in BTC from borrowed money in my opinion is something that is very risky, but in this case except for people who are experienced and skilled in analysis and prediction, of course there is no problem with a note that you have to be prepared for risks.

and I see op is an experienced person of course he also has extensive knowledge about btc investing, the proof is now the price of btc has gone up and now the price of btc is in the range of $ 30k and if op keeps it for the long term then in my opinion btc has the potential to go up more high again.

congratulations op because you have successfully bought 1 btc.

The simple thing is if someone is able to repay the loan on time at the place where he borrowed it, obviously it won't be a problem for him even though he doesn't have much experience in this matter. Because apart from having to understand the risk of loss, one must also understand that the next risk is the difficulty of repaying a loan when it is not profitable.

The evidence of a price increase in Bitcoin is there if you just look at the price charts within the year, but how is it going for those who are doing something similar in 2021 at a time when the price of Bitcoin is higher than it is now? Some people are even still struggling to recover their initial capital so as not to suffer too many losses because in the past year everyone who has bought at high prices has had a hard time due to such drastic declines. So this is not only about experience, but also about luck in investing.

Actually investing in Bitcoin with debt is risky. But OP invested in Bitcoin with a loan at the right time, OP are you still holding Bitcoin? If you are holding then now more than 50% profit. op wanted to hold for 2 years, if op holds for 1 more year it is expected to get more than 100% profit.

Order to invest in Bitcoin, one must have a good understanding of Bitcoin. It is best not to invest in Bitcoin with a loan from a bank or a loan from anywhere else.

Totally agree with you that crypto currency market is a volatile market. One should always invest that capital which after losing it will not affect your daily routine. Always invest capital that is more than you need. Borrowing and investing in the crypto currency market is a risky process. As we expect a good profit here, we also involve the risk of loss.

Of course Bitcoin investment is a good investment which is considered reliable in all crypto currency market. Bitcoin investment is a long term investment so I think it would not be wise to invest with borrowed money, but it's a good thing that his time to buy Bitcoin was right because the price of Bitcoin is now high.

Your bravery inspires me. Borrowing to invest in Bitcoin is brave. You've borrowed to make a big profit. I respect your daring, imprudent choice.

However, tread cautiously. Bitcoin has traditionally generated high returns but is very speculative and unpredictable. No surprise, right? If you borrow at a given interest rate, you're betting that Bitcoin will climb quicker. You're racing against time.

Market trends should guide your judgments, not your emotions. Follow BTC market developments, research, and adjust your strategy. Its your money, after all

I am not accustomed to incurring debts to attain my dreams, but if your goal is Bitcoin, perhaps your perception of greater income opportunities lies therein. Borrowing money indeed carries risks, yet I view it from a different perspective when it comes to borrowing for productive purposes. It can be allowed and should be balanced with a strong mindset.

My principle is to avoid debt for consumptive needs, such as purchasing trendy items through installments. Forcing humans to operate beyond their means would have detrimental effects on individuals' habits. In essence, never finance something that will not be productive for us. That is the principle I hold dear.