Bitcoin Forum

This is what I have speculated and argued. Companies holding a speculative asset in their balance sheet will be forced to sell if the asset is not bringing profit for their monthly income statement. I reckon if bitcoin continues to dump, I speculate that Michael Saylor will be forced to deleverage. Let us wish this will not become true.



Tesla (TSLA) reported its Q2 earnings after the closing bell on Tuesday, meeting analysts’ estimates, following a prolonged COVID-induced shutdown at its Shanghai production facility.

The company also says it sold 75% of its Bitcoin, turning it into fiat currency, adding $936 million in cash to its balance sheet. The quarter, however, ended Tesla's streak of reporting record revenue.

Source https://finance.yahoo.com/news/tesla-q2-earnings-2022-201008978.html

Can this be the reason, why after several days of green market, this morning we see it is being red ? Probably yes and no. We all remember how market reacted several years ago when crypto community saw words Elon Mask, Bitcoin and Tesla been together in one sentence. We see same words today, but with a negative context, but leading currencies have lost only 3-6% of their yesterdays value. Either there will be more consequences, or few people care about Tesla and Bitcoin nowadays.

That is what BTC is for Elon Musk, a speculative asset like any other, such as Doge or shares of another company. There is nothing special about it for him.


In this case I think it is different and Michael Saylor sees BTC in a different way than Elon Musk, and he has also tied his future to BTC. With most of the voting power in MSTR, the price would have to drop a lot before it would be forced to liquidate anything. I don't know if perhaps an attack of short positions could force him.

Saylor liquidating part of his BTC holdings would make him look like a big mouth much more than he is looking lately.

There was thread I saw that people are discussing what is similar to this.

Surprisingly, Elon's Tesla is not so keen on hodling BTC anymore (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5407076.msg60602172#msg60602172)

There is nothing that can not happen, but we all know that Michael Saylor is different from Elon Musk. Elon Musk and Tesla have been clowning about what is related to bitcoin.

People should know Elon Musk than that, this is not a shocking news but what some people have been expecting.

Very healthy for bitcoin if big whales sell for individuals to buy.

It could be, but bitcoin price has been rising since last weekend, that has been 5 days ago. The bear market is not yet over. The decline has also not been significant.

Did Elon Musk sell the Pico Bottom? As illustrated by him, not all geniuses make the right decisions in their lives. But from the pleb's viewpoint, we shouldn't worry. Bitcoin doesn't need Elon Musk, or anyone who doesn't take the time to actually learn and understand Bitcoin.

Plus be prepared, because Elon Musk might join Nassim Taleb and FUD Bitcoin like all of those BSV-Flat-Earthers, OR he might join Vitalik and his new shitcoin after Ethereum completes the move to POS.

I remember Elon Musk complaining about Tesla factories losing money and having difficulties with the production schedule.
Maybe that's why Tesla sold most of it's BTC reserves. Anyway, this isn't such a big deal and we as Bitcoin maximalists shouldn't act butthurt.
Tesla has the right to sell their BTC reserves anytime they want.


Well, Bitcoin is "a speculative asset" for 80-90% of all the Bitcoiners. ;D There's nothing wrong with viewing a financial asset as "speculative".
Speculation is having a high risk/reward attitude in trading. It's simply buying low and selling high for profit.
I don't know why the term "speculation" still has negative connotation attached to it.
Elon Musk never expressed any positive opinions about Bitcoin, he mostly neutral about BTC, so we shouldn't think that he was a hardcore Bitcoin believer.

OR pay for Elon Musk's "break-up fee" for backing out of his $44,000,000,000 deal with Twitter. What Twitter and Jack Dorsey can do is use that $1,000,000,000 from the break-up fee to buy Bitcoin for their own treasury.

Who's butthurt? The Honey Badger don't care. Is that all Tesla sold? It didn't crash the price. We'll see Tesla again when Bitcoin is trading with six digits. 8)

The irony here is that Tesla could have already bought back twice as much Bitcoin this quarter (which wouldn't be reporting until Q3). For example if they sold around $40K they could have well bought back at $20K, or around the 200 WMA if they felt that it presented a good average buying price. So while they did indeed sell, it remains unknown if they hold more than Q2 tax filings, given how cheap July prices have been.

I wouldn't be surprised to hear that out of the 75% they sold (likely good profit), they have returned half of that back into the market at a lower price and currently hold twice what they have for example.

Let's wait for the Q3 and find out if tesla was buying in the current time period. Can they sell in the Q2 at a loss, for some tax break or something like that?

Then why is this information about 75% tesla's bitcoin sold so actively promoted in the media? Even this forum could not get around this news, because more than one topic has already been created with a discussion of this topic. Another attempt to create panic, drop bitcoin price and buy cheap?

Unlikely it was for a tax break, as someone else pointed out (in one of the many other threads regarding this topic) they bought in Q4 2020, not in Q1 2021 as many assumed (included myself):


So really, Tesla bought at the beginning of the bull market and sold at some point when price turned bearish - no doubt for a profit if they had any sense (or risk management) - it's unlikely they would of sold for a loss. It seems like they saw the opportunity for quick profit, and despite liking the idea of having a % in a reverse asset like Bitcoin, prefer to do so when the market is trending upwards as opposed to downwards.

I otherwise think its unlikely that they were buying this month, even if totally possible. More likely they would wait for a trend reversal or some form of stability rather than risking buying an asset which is (by many metrics) in a downtrend. More likely they buy next year around $30K to $40K imo, even if it'd be higher than current prices, probably still less than where they sold at.

Ultimately if they sold for profit / to reduce risk, it's unlikely they'd be exposing themselves to Bitcoin right now given the current risk of further downside. It wouldn't be very logical if your strategy is low risk.

This will not be new for the public who have followed Elon musk on his fud for bitcoin. He has expressed choice for dogecoin and selling a huge percentage of bitcoin hodling of Tesla isn't that strange but maybe the reality as it has happened is the surprising aspect. Maybe this may drop the bull that has been on for few days ago and bearly 24 hours of the news the price of bitcoin started to drop.

Sold at a loss despite Musk saying that they wouldn't sell at all. Pretty pathetic if you ask me.
On the other hand it's a good lesson to those who follow rich people. When Jamie Dimon was saying that he'd never buy bitcoin he was actually buying. When Elon said he bought, he was getting ready to sell. When Tesla accepted bitcoin it was just weeks before they stopped accepting it. It was a pump and dump scheme nothing else. 

There were many people who in 2021 said that bitcoin would go to 100k or higher and are now bearish and telling people not to buy because it could go to 10k. These are the people we don't want in the space but since we cannot kick them out it's up to you guys to filter the news and know who to trust.

Not sure if Elon will go back when the price is at 6 digits, but for sure he will be back. Maybe he will announce it grandiose style or will simply be under the radar but they can't hide it as they have to declare it in papers.

Anyhow, I'm also not surprised, he needed money with the Twitter buy out debacle and Tesla itself is loing money in this recession. So refilling his treasury with bitcoin money is a good thing.

I am quite certain that you are joking, however, this might be closer to being real than being your joke. There was an article before that mentioned Elon Musk's legal advisor being one of the advisors of the new Dogecoin Foundation. It also mentioned Vitalik as also an advisor. I speculate that they might be in discussion with each other about developments in the cryptospace.

https://foundation.dogecoin.com/about/

He, and many CEOs, merely have little, or absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING of what Bitcoin truly is, or its potential. Compare Elon Musk to Michael Saylor, Michael Saylor learned the HARD WAY that he needs the utility that Bitcoin provides. I believe he was in Argentina when a bank didn't allow him to move millions of his own money out of the country.

Plus once many more people truly understands that one of Bitcoin's underlying nature also political that weakens strongholds and bounderies, I believe developing/emerging nation-states will also start, or should start, HODLing Bitcoin in their treasuries.

Vitalik and elon was involved before in shiba inu so I wouldn't be surprised with this one if this came to reality. Another fact which can make the partnership happen is that elon musk dislikes btc's pow but he would now embrace eth when it moves to pos.

Will you really believe what this guy is saying? This guy has a habit or has a history of changing his decisions very quickly. There's even one moment where he announced he will be accepting btc on his tesla company and then unaccepted it again after some days but I think his biggest issue is about those meme coins. Many people lost their money because of it, that's why many of them don't believe anymore on what this guy is saying.

You can't underestimate Elon Musk and because of his huge number of followers that was pretty easy for him to manipulate the market by just spreading fake news. Social Media is now a medium for his influence not only in crypto but also in other forms of investment.

If the news is really true, I've doubted if Elon Musk is really serious about investing in Bitcoin. Dumping their Bitcoin when you are buying at a higher price is not a preferable decision of a real businessman, he and Tesla Company instead hold it.

In the end, one man's lose or companies lose is another individual's or companies gain.
It's just the way it is. Even with there persistent dump, bitcoin continues to rise. Right now, its about $23k, still far from a fully formed bullish trend but, its set the pace for some recovery.

The good news is, no one takes Elon Musk seriously anymore. He tried to pump Doge and managed to push it up a few pips but still, it's down and struggling like other shitcoins. Musk has lost his grip on cryptocurrency and that's good for the syetm. With him have dumped bitcoin, he would be truly a hypocrite to buy but the truth is, nobody can stop him from buying and nobody really cares too.

How are both of them involved in Shiba Inu? The only notable thing with SHIB in this case was that the team sent Vitalik a significant chunk of the supply, in which then Vitalik sold the tokens and donated the money.

We need to stop caring what Elon Musk does. It doesn’t seem to have affected the market much, since he revealed they’d sold any way.

It’s not important what he does. There are no heroes in bitcoin, this is why decentralisation rules. Morons like Musk have very little effect. He’s not cut out for decentralisation. He’s a confirmed narcissist, those type of people like to be in control. Tough luck for him, he’ll never have any control over bitcoin.

We have been keeping on saying these things but turns out that majority of us do really just simply ignore and do keep on trying out to engage nor making themselves affected on what ever Elon
do make on his coins and just been said that it is really their own coins or the company had bought in and if ever they would sell out then its their right on doing so.So what? It might give out some
effect on the market but not really much considering with the volume, we shouldnt really make ourselves that too reactive or getting impulsive on market and making out immediate decisions
basing on what you are seeing on news around specially in connected with Elon. We shouldnt really make ourselves too get attached with these sentiments.

Right because we know what is his intention on cryptocurrency so its not good to anyone to keep looking after him on this discussion. And I'm not surprise about them doing this because they actually do this wheb they want to manipulate something so for sure this is another attempt by him. I guess if majority of people will not care nor ignore his action provably Musk will notice that he cannot influence people to be crazy on the actions he do on cryptocurrency industry.

No the price he sold it at is higher than the current price, so he did a good thing by selling it when he did. Most likely it was around $28-29K or so.

I am guessing it went close to his buy in price and markets looked weak and they just sold due to pressure from investors in the stock. He most likely had no choice but to sell to save Tesla.

Right on the money, I felt this from the moment Musk the meme master first announced his holding.  Can you see the parallel to his current waste of time with Twitter, what does he really need it for and whats his plans personally.  I never heard what is his use for BTC intended as, how does this help Tesla and I was waiting for the genius answer before I really took it as much positive but sure markets loved the hype for a moment.

Its not just Tesla or Elon Musk, every company not using money, currency, capital on its balance sheet is pretty much obliged to return that free cash flow to its share holders.  Tesla doesn't generally give this kind of active return because they are supposed to be high growth, high investment but its still generally true he cant leave it there doing nothing so its gone.   This is no reflection of BTC imo, any more then you have to stop using twitter if its useful to you.

If Elon Musk wants to sell the Bitcoin he owns that's his right, we can't do anything to stop him. It's the same with Bitcoin that we own, we have
the right not to sell it, so we shouldn't be too influenced by Elon Musk. We all know Elon Musk from the very beginning did not enter the crypto world
to help the crypto industry become better. However, Elon Musk only wants to control the crypto market with all the manipulations he does and
can provide huge profits for him.

So never be influenced by all the activities carried out by Elon Musk, let him do what he wants to do. But as long as there are still many people
who believe in the future of Bitcoin and continue to hold Bitcoin until the market recovers, everything will be fine and Bitcoin will go up again.
Although I admit Elon Musk's popularity is quite high and is helped by the loyal following he has, what Elon Musk did by selling his Bitcoins had
little effect. But as long as we can be calm and don't panic, the effects that occur will not stop Bitcoin from being able to recover and does not
stop us from being able to enjoy profits from Bitcoin in the future. So forget Elon Musk and just focus on collecting as much Bitcoin as possible,
that's what we have to do right now.

True , in fact it's a great time to show the world that elon mean nothing for the crypto community ... while they are reportedly selling 75% of their bitcoin holding ... we are heading to doubled back the bitcoin value to $50k or so , i'm pretty sure the bitcoin market will go against the current bearish news like this , we'll see in the coming weeks.

Whether we are going to break the $25k line or get back to below $20k to remain there and swinging.

Yes, it's really scary to see your investment being so dependent on a few large holding individuals. I also do not exclude the possibility that the last time is the process of acquiring assets with young and incompetent funds that only revolve around supporting tools such as leverage. So Tesla or many large chunks of their holdings sell off their BTC holdings as an unavoidable part of the benefits and risks that they see in this market.

After Elon's dump, the beginning of fud by bitcoin news media hehehe. Saylor is holding 129,699, according to some bitcoin news that track Saylor's purchases. This is less than what is mentioned in this tweet. Also, I am quite certain Saylor will never sell unless he wants to deleverage the risk. However, it would be another not very shocking news if Microstrategy announced a deleveraging only if bitcoin dumped to $10k which I speculate is impossible.



Rumors are circulating that MicroStrategy has sold 132,382 $BTC

Source https://mobile.twitter.com/newsbtc/status/1550996917114503170

Elon Musk is a very large holder because he has so much money.
When he diversifies even a little bit, he has already some Bitcoins.


Yes, it is not possible. It would highly erode trust into Bitcoin as a store of value, when Michael Saylor, a staunch ally of Bitcoin, would sell.
Michael Saylor has very often told his support of Bitcoin, when he and his ship (he's saylor  :D) arrived on TV.


It's lies, Twitter is not a source. It would be huge crash for Bitcoin.