Bitcoin Forum

One of the mistakes that I am making and that prevent me from being a profitable trader is that I do scalping and I lose a lot of money with the fees.

But now I have discovered that binance offers the possibility to trade without commissions for a limited time. So if I set the stop loss at the same price as the entry price (or one cent below the buy price) it should be relatively easy to be profitable.

On the trades I lose I would only lose a few cents and on the trades I gain I would gain much more by using the trailing stop...this commission free trading sounds too nice to be true, doesn't it? is there a catch I don't know about?

I thought it was only spot trades that were fee free?

You could try trading the way you plan to without fees but I don't normally notice fees when I trade so maybe it's the strategy that's problematic. Have you tried looking into trading based on things like support and resistance to try to get something more profitible - it should be a fast thing to learn with a bit of ta to give you a strategy you can then test out and make work (especially if you have the time to backtest it/practice)?

I think he's talking about spot

Fees become quit significantly noticable when you do scalp trading especially if the Take profit is very low... like 0.1%

For example the taker and maker trading fees for a regular user on Binance are  0.1000% / 0.1000%. so if one is taking a profit of 0.1%, then the fee is eating up the profit on every successful trade.

When doing up some scalping then setting out SL's that too shallow would really be somewhat pointless or useless considering on how volatile the price is then it would be easily be triggered out
and you would just be boggling up your mind that you should be repositioning again but of course you should set a little further with those SL's.

Trailing stop loss might do but i dont really come into this certain point.Just do and make out some trial and error according to your preference since
we do have different takings when it comes to commission fees and perceptions about volatility.

Know the fee the exchange you are using is deducting in percentage. Use it to calculate the total amount of fee that will be deducted from you in each trade.

I have noticed this before. Let me make you a good example

You have $5000 that you are trading with
Trading fee is 0.1%
The fee that will be deducted from $5000 = $5000 x 0.1 ÷ 100
                                                                          = $5

Assuming you have $3 profit already, once you close the position or converted back to a stable coin, $5 is deducted as fee.

So it would be $5000 + $3 (profit) - $5 (fee) = $4998

Remember that you are also charged for opening a position, or when you converted to an unstable coin for profit.

$4998 -$5 (used to open position or used to first convert to unstable coin for profit) = $4993.

Your $5000 would become $4993 after making $3 profit.

Likely this is caused by trading with too much amount of money and you want to close the trade very fast because of fear not to lose. Trade with the amount of money you can afford to lose and make more profit that would be more than the trading fee deducted before closing the trade.

It depends on the exchange. Spot, margin or future trading can have no fee, but there can be some tasks attached to it. Some can even be in form of rebate, in a way you will trade and earn some amount, instead of deducting fee, but those are for VIP on most exchanges.

They do that for a set period of time, so it's like a limited offer, and then will go back again with the usual fees that they take for each trade.
There's nothing you should lose upon doing scalp trades if you're at win most of the time. IMO, the fees per trade you make don't really hurt that much if they're just a couple of cents. But to understand the structure of the fee, always check the details that can be found on their website.

Everything you have mentioned in your thread, OP, can easily be fixed with a trading bot like Gunbot (https://gunbot.ph). ^{[I am affiliated with them, and if you do plan to check it out and have questions, don't hesitate to PM me; I'll help you]}

It could easily calculate and scalp for you, depending on your chosen strategy, and will ensure that you have profit in your trading.

As long as you are using BNB and use Limit trades, you could save fees. They are just probably offering this to have more volume in their exchange. I don't know what else could be behind it.

If you are spot trading and can't make a profit due to fees then there are a few reasons why.

1) You are using the wrong exchange. Most likely you are using an exchange not meant for active trading but instead long term investing. Some of these exchanges like Gemini charge like 1-2% per trade. So automatically you use 2-4%.

2) You are way over trading. If you are using an exchange like Binanace and can't make a profit this way. You are taking way too many trades and closing them too early. Overtrading is not good for trading.

In order to trade you must be aware of various aspects of trading.Nonsense trading cannot be done. If you start trading without understanding about trading, but start trading, you will definitely get caught.And stop loss plays the most important role in trading platform.Stop loss must be used especially in futures trading platforms. Otherwise you will never know when your money is gone.

That's so huge mate, unless if you are referring to crypto to fiat trades. Any exchange charging that high for crypto to crypto pairs would be out of business in very few years.

According to this (https://www.gemini.com/fees/activetrader-fee-schedule#section-active-trader-fee-schedule), they charge 0.40% for taker and 0.20% for marker for a low tier account. Still so high IMO  ;D

What's a scalper supposed to do?

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Good news OP, bybit also now has a zero fees spot trading for some trading pairs until further notice. take advantage - https://www.bybit.com/en-us/promo/global/zero-fees-spot

Traders doesn’t focus that much with the fees, they are too focus analyzing the chart and knowing their positions. If you really want to be good in trading and want to be more profitable, start doing the right thing like learning how indicators work, knowing when to buy and sell are very common and with that you can just cover those fees from your winning trades. Regardless if its free or not, that can’t still change your trading skills, better to improve it first.

Traders focus more on strategies, charts and fundamentals and not on fees. Before you start trading you should make good research about the good exchange based on security first and then fees can come in.
Responding about the stop lost discovery of Op, I have been using that strategy but I was hit some time when I believed that there is more to stop loss than traders know and I have stopped using stop loss.

What i will tell you is that, the measurements or the ratio you are using, will make you not have a good profit if actually you are making a profit, and people who is using this method of your's basically they are upbrings in trading.trading is all about risk, so that whenever you are making a profit, your Profit will be huge. Try to educate yourself more well in trading so that won't end up losing much amount of money.

Scalping may be worthy if we really can do it in the right time and strategy, but in fact, none will run very well because we still use the third party, in whcih sometimes, they are too long in transaction, transfering, and also high fees. Moroever when the price suddenly dropps, that is part of the risk of scalping.

Do you mean Trading in the Spot market on Binance? not the future market, right?
Trading in the Spot market does have a lower risk compared to other types of trading activities. But that does not mean zero risk, yes. And in this case, it seems that on Binance there are still trading fees, but they are quite small, around 0.1% (see: Fee Rate (https://www.binance.com/en/fee/schedule). But indeed here we can really set at what rate we want to get profits even in a period of time that we ourselves cannot predict exactly at all. But at least we can also install SL/CL to minimize a lot of losses because after all we still have to rotate the money for other trading activities.

Setting of stop loss just close to entry price is risky. Following from what @ Ratimov said, putting sl at trend areas or at the trend means price can easily retest those points and take you out easily for loss. I suggest that sl are better behind support or resistance. Support and resistance are strong areas that are not easily broken instead of placing sl at close to entry or at the middle of trade. Learn to use stop loss behind support and resistance.

There are such decentralized and centralized exchanges where no trading commission is charged. For example, no commission is charged on Dydx.exchange if the trade turnover does not exceed 100 thousand dollars. As for CEX, there are no trading commissions at all on the Quantfury exchange. These exchanges are given as an example and you need DYOR.

If you set a stop loss at the same price wouldn't the order get executed in less than a minute.
We know how volatile the market is and 2% - 3% fluctuations are very normal in crypto.
Although trailing stop loss is a good feature you should reconsider your strategy and plan accordingly.
Try making a few practice trades and then consider investing bigger amounts.

Trailing stop is good but it has it own disadvantage also. If the stop loss is done, the trade direction can go on but you will be out already.


Setting a stop loss very close to entry price or same price will not be possible because it will not trigger or activated if you don't allow for certain space between the entry point and the stop loss because the platform has some charge on the trader.

Yes ofcourse, everything has their own advantages as well as disadvantages.
Trailing stop loss has some disadvantages too but every other order type has it too.
It just depends on the individual on what is their preference for the same.

You can see trading paying more on the fees if you are losing money, but when you start making money out of it most probably you wont look at the fees anymore because that can easily be paid off by your profit. Trading is too risky, fees can totally eat all your capital if you do trade carelessly, so learn how to be more effective, learn how to use different indicators that can help you on making a decision, in trading those who have a good strategies will always win on any market situation. Trading is very reward but first, you must invest on the right knowledge and be more patient because trading is not that easy.

As a trader we all have preference in the strategy we use. Trailing stop for example is not the best trading option for me because it is going to pull me out from maximum profit. I would rather stay with the trade, using trailing stop has such disadvantage but if you are not sure of your trade then you can adopt the style of trailing your stop.

Stop loss and trailing stop loss are often finer in terms of short term investment and give you good upshot with the spot trading. Actually it can abate the feasibilities of one's failure and upgrades the chances of profiting. You are pointing out about the fees that because of it you have lost cash so i will say that not every coin has such a top transaction charges just remember that you have to specify coin actively and with full consciousness.

There is no catch, of course, but they are promotional offers from Binance for a limited time. Recently, Binance announced zero trading fees to encourage traders in this bear market. These are really good offers that encourage investors to continue depositing and trading on Binance instead of withdrawing or selling their assets because fear of losing in a bear market. Reducing fees helps the trader to increase their profits in the long run as a result of accumulating small fees.

If you doesn't know about the analysis and read the candlestick then stop loss / limit  what ever you used like this you will not able to earn enough profit  I think those will be only waste of time. But it's true that you can stop  your loss by doing this . I have also used it for my daily trade. If you have the knowledge of how to read and analysis the candles then I think will take a good momentum on your trading by avoiding your loss.

Yeah, of course, trading needs concentration and attention and secondly before you become a successful trader you most know the rudiments of trade because if someone enroll into trading without understanding the basic points and the basic strategies behind it, actually the person is going to end up having a huge lose. Because everything needs a proper awareness of the foundation before you can be prosper, and trading needs it very well.

Yes, the size of the fees does not play a big role in long-term trading, because the price difference between buying and selling is large and the profits are large, covering the trading fees with a large profit for the trader, but this may be important for scalping traders, because they make many and quick deals on very small price differences. They only earn some small profits because they lose a lot of fees due to the large number of trades they do daily.

Scalping is also profitable but when you don't understand how to profit from it then avoid it. What you need to know is that there is a trading fee that you have to pay every time you scalp, it depends on how much money you have. I also don't understand why you care about trading fees if you really like scalping, do you want to take very small profits instead of waiting for a few percent increase?

I like day trading over scalping, but of course both are risky. Try to understand the strategy you use well before you practice it in real trading. You are the one who decides when to take profit, it must be higher than your initial fund.

But if a trader is bothered by it and sees those commission and trading fees are like a loss to him, we can't do anything about that. It's true that those fees aren't really alot for a trader and if you're into scalping and you're too concerned with it, you better just stop doing it as it is sorting of worrying to you. As you earn and win your trades and if they're like a lot, those fees won't really be a big factor to you. Because you're earning with your trades and just think of it like a little help back to the exchange, lol.

If you plan to trade like this then you will need plenty of hours to keep trading before you make a good amount of profits. I think you just have to work on your strategy so you can adjust to make reasonable profits than planing to trade like a bot. It is only a programme bot that cam trade like this and you willake good profits from the ranging of the market with fixed stop lose and take profit.

Trading is not going to end today so I think you need to get enough knowledge about trading so you can understand how the market moves so you can be making reasonable profits that can make you cover some bills. Go and work on your strategy and read more books about trading so you can understand more about cryptocurrency market.

The way people talk about stop loss, one will think it is the safest strategy in cryptocurrency. Their are some intricacies in the use of stop loss that people don't always mention. This leave you behind when the market is bullish and have a slight correction. so users will know how to select price for the trade when there is loss in the market. So what happens to traders that use DEXes often where there is no stop loss and there is high trade?

Stop loss is very important especially if you are doing scalp trading or trading using low timeframes.
If you don't want stop loss or not using stop loss, for sure you are always watching every time your trade position because for sure you will manually close your trade if anything goes bad or if you don't want your liquidation to be your stop loss which seems not advisable.

Speaking of DEX, stop losses on most of DEX are available. This is one of the best features that can exchange have.

People think,stop loss must be used to avoid from the loss.But it’s not a true way of escape from the loss.When you had fix the stop loss,it will prevent from the more Loss.But when the market was back to the bull run,the order will be placed with minimum profit.Then it will skip you from gaining more profit from it.It only leads to less amount of profit from your investment using stop loss.

Perhaps, stop-loss is not designed to make a profit but as a way to save from losing more.
Fees/commissions are mostly what we struggled with in most exchanges. That is why I was still confident and I see that spot trading is more profitable than scalping. In fact, I've even tried scalping in the past and yes, we might not make losses but because of the fees, that is something that beats us.

I tend to agree with this.  Stop-loss(SL) is to avoid further loss, not a strategy that you can use to gain profit.
This is very useful when you're in day trading, it very crucial there when it comes to making a profit.

Through this stop-loss even though you're in scalping and spot trading still is very useful.
There are a bunch of strategies that you can use but it seems the most important thing is SL.

Names of Dexes with stop-loss for ethereum, bsc, matic and solana blockchain please

Stop loss has nothing to do with profit but only to reduce the amount of losses that you can encounter if the market turn against you. Take profit as the name is that is the one that has something with profit. The stop loss is the strategy that traders apply or set in the order that they make to avoid much loss in the trade is not going in profit.

I know that as long as you are using limit trades, you would be able to save on fees. You could also add the part where you can use BNB to reduce and have discounts. When you are at that promo time, I think you should be able to take advantage of those limited fees.

There's probably no catch as long as you are trading correctly. Some of it probably wants people to sell more to have different kinds of things.

• To have more trading volume
• More traders in a position (maybe waiting for liquidation?)
• To more exposure to the exchange

I think that's the best way to see it, TBH. I hope you can continue to profit in your trading journey, OP. I am taking advantage of it with my trading bot, Gunbot (https://gunbot.ph). With the market maker strategy.