Bitcoin Forum

I had several questions but can only remember one at the moment. When the government issues CBDC’s, how would you purchase BTC privately being that the CBDC’s will let them survail every transaction if they wish. Seems like a silly question being they can do the same through your bank but……

P2P transfers will still likely be quite private (the issuer of the CBDC might know you two are sending funds to each other but it might be harder to work out why - even if the trader did a lot of trades they might have personal uses for that account too).

With exchanges, unless an exchange is awarded one account per person (which could and might happen) it may be possible for the CBDC to track inflows and outflows and work out exactly who you are (some simple things like treating exchanges like mixers and waiting a random amount of time that's a few days and sending an amount close to what's common for that exchange will greatly improve the chances of your transaction remaining private).

I think it's like a bank transfer works but it's actually more privacy if in practice the user doesn't need any account like cash.
Moreover, I believe local banks are actually more flexible in controlling the flow of funds individually and in small amounts because it is clear that they with many officers always keep an eye on transaction records.

The OP seems to have some confusion here. It's like asking how to do cash transactions, since electronic transactions are recorded and payroll is paid to you by the bank.

CBDCs are going to be implemented gradually, and I doubt very much that they will eliminate the use of cash and other electronic transactions. You will still be able to acquire bitcoin P2P or on decentralised exchanges.

I think you can use p2p to buy bitcoins. Bitcoin transaction through P2P does not require any 3rd party. Directly you can do person to person transactions. And it is more confidential. And if you buy bitcoins through a bank, they always monitor your transactions. So I prefer to do transactions in P2P instead of banks.

CBDC is not going to replace the existing fiat payment systems and you can continue using them to buy bitcoin. Even with CBDC you are still making a payment where the purpose is not defined, it could be for buying groceries or for buying bitcoin.
And as always you can always earn bitcoin since it is a currency after all.

No, it is not a question is silly. In my country, the government already rolled out its own digital currency/CBDC called e-naira (https://african.business/2021/10/finance-services/nigeria-gears-up-for-enaira/). I do not own any of it. And it is not mandatory to use it for purchase of items. On the other hand, people still buy Bitcoin via P2P as despite the ban on cryptocurrency (https://www.cbn.gov.ng/Out/2021/CCD/Volume%203%20Number%202%20CBN%20Update%20February%202021.pdf) transactions last year by the government.  I have yet to come across a CBDC owner. So yeah the CBDC and buying bitcoin are two parallels.

Why did you not own a CBDC wallet? I bet they will allow buying BTC but of course not privately. Since users can deposit e-naira to the p2p platform, I guess that's how they also monitor for now the users buying BTC.

It's surprising that Nigeria has CBDC but most countries today have none.  The bank bills are still being used but they may gradually illuminate certain bills in circulation.

I don't think the government would know if you are using it to buy bitcoin because, let show some examples to understand the transaction process. You are an American and you have dollar as cbdc and you are buying bitcoin, you send the cbdc (dollar) to the person that has bitcoin and person in return send you bitcoin that equivalent to the cbdc dollar amount. Therefore, with this transaction, the central authorities would only know that you make a transfer to another cbdc wallet or bank but not in bitcoin wallet. It will be very difficult for them to trace to bitcoin wallet since it was not directly to the bitcoin wallet. Inside the cbdc wallet there is no bitcoin so how can they know? The person will send it from another wallet that contain bitcoin.

That makes sense that they wouldn’t replace the current fiat system entirely at first. It doesn’t make sense why you would need it in the first place.

Sounds good. I will use dexes and purchase in inconsistent amounts. I would not use it on exchanges. Thanks.

You need to understand that CBDC is not cryptocurrency while bitcoin is, there's no way you can remain being private with CBDC because it's just a digital version of fiat currency, but bitcoin can give you the privacy you've wanted using p2p network which it is meant for and no government can be able to track you down considering that you did not make use not a centralized exchange.


Using the bank and CBDC are just thesame thing while bitcoin network is an entire different thing, if you're privacy conscious, get used to a decentralized exchange with bitcoin or run your full node.

???

CBDC is similar with cryptocurrency, it's just centralized and recorded in private ledger. Using P2P aren't actually mean you have completely 100% privacy, it depends on your wallet and the server you access. If you didn't own your own node, there's a chance someone can still track your IP address.

IMO when I hear about "cryptocurrency" word, I refer it to centralized shitcoins and that's almost same with CBDC.

Let me come in here to answer the question, this your explanation goes in line with someone who is buying Bitcoin via P2P exchange, whereas for someone using his debit/credit cards to purchase Bitcoin for instance Binance or any other means of Buying Bitcoin using your cards, it could be possible for the government to track the transaction using your bank (CBDC'S) because the ATM card being used for such transaction is linked to the CBDC'S Bank Account and hence they will be able to know where you spent your money.

What government really have too many free time to track your small transactions?
Except you are buying a huge volume of btc directly from the exchange. And why would you buy btc with cbdc when you can always do that through fiat.
Cbdc is not a thing yet and even if it eventually does it won't be shove down your throat,  I believe you will be given an option, so it is up to you to decide what to buy btc with.

With CBDC government's get the direct control over the funds of people. In all means people find loopholes to make things work against the purpose for which something is being innovated. On such a stance there'll be ways through Which buying Bitcoin can be made privately.

When bitcoin usage is legalized and fair taxation is done upon the usage of cryptocurrency, what is the need of having it privately. Right now majority of the countries haven't announced the status of cryptocurrency acceptance as well as the taxation over cryptocurrency were very high.

Too many ways and CBDCs is going to be just one of them.

But needless of that, don't think that CBDCs are already that popular and powerful when it's still on its infancy and haven't started yet.

Anyway, let's see from there if it's already there because no matter what comes. There will bestill  tons of ways to buy bitcoin privately if that's what you want to.

Central Bank Digital Currency (CBDC) or digital currency issued by the central bank will not affect the purchase of bitcoin because CBDC is like a currency like fiat money, the value of CBDC will be based on or equal to physical money issued by the central bank. Likewise with the supply or the amount of money in circulation. SO we can buy bitcoin as usual and don't need to be afraid of transaction data, and we can't avoid breaking up with the bank because every crypto asset when we want to spend it we have to convert it to FIAT first, except for countries that have legalized crypto transactions

CBDCs are going to be launched as an alternative option. I don't see how they'd force everyone to stop using cash. It's possible there will be countries that say "you can't do this from now on" like China or Russia like to do, but in most countries this isn't how things are done or you'll get protests and the party that tries it won't get elected for another term.
All they can do is put CBDCs out there and advertise them to make more and more people choose this type of payment over cash (first) and then traditional bank transfers.

CBDC have the same things as todays digital fiat

if you take off the tin foil hat and do research.. you will realise many many things

government employees do not watch, monitor or surveill every transaction both in current digital fiat, and in the draft/trialing CBDC

what occurs is governments create money. and then ration it out into commercial banks. asking commercial banks to monitor their customers and only report suspicious activity to government agencies

with the draft/trialing CBDC their main templates are a 3 level /versions of service.
if your only moving minimal amounts .. call it monthly wage amounts you get the low level wallet. that does not ask for KYC but does limit how much funds can be transfered in-out
above this threshold is another service people have to upgrade to to get more relaxed limits. if they supply basic KYC. where by those commercial banks then do log names and transfers. but only report basic info to authorities of suspicious transactions and only supply full trade/transfer history if the government agency hands the commercial bank(s) a court order requesting full customer info
then if you are a whale/high roller/wealthy. then you need to go through full KYC

the reason to pass info to government is similar to how all fiats have worked for years.

the only big fidderence between cbdc and fiat is that in a CBDC the user has to save their keys to authorise payments which is more secure than a debit card pin number, where instead of having to hand a retailer all your debit card details for them to 'pull' money out of your 'account' you sign/authorise to 'push' an allotment of your holdings to the retailer

the surveillance and stuff is still the same as fiat now. (once you take the tin foil hat off and realise how fiat works)
and yes even in china their way of banking is similar to that of UK/US. so dont learn how money works from fox news
....

i do laugh when i see people shout russia/china when they think of "control".. funny part is those screaming russia/china. have never visited those places
even funnier is how its actually the USA that keep on using lots of controls.. yep look at the sanctions the USA create many times a decade on other countries/individuals.

by the way. unlike fox news reports... chinese government does not watch every transaction.. china is not a electronic currency under one wallet system.. yep go to any travel money business and ask for chinese currency and they will swap your dollar/euro/pound for yuan without asking you to register to a chinese app.. yep china use paper money
and if you do want to use a chinese electronic bank account. there is not just chinas government app.. there are dozens of banks/apps from lots of companies to choose from.  much the same as the US
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_banks_in_China

as for thinking lots of countries never take bank notes out of circulation..
funny because when the UK changed from paper bank notes to plastic bank notes since the millenium. it was very easy to change  and take paper bank notes out of circulation
heck the UK is starting now on planning to change bank notes right now from the queens face to the kings face.. so money does go out of circulation more then you think

..
what will happen in a electronic only currency is to imagine low level accounts wallets with no KYC in CBDC like the 'top-up' cards/virtual visa debit cards you can get now. but they have low level limits on them.. and thats how people will pay for things without hassle of KYC in a CBDC wallet. by having a low level account with low limits that requires no KYC

CBDCs will be like regular money, it will just be digitized. It's just a new nomenclature. In the end, buying Crypto in general will be given the same way: P2P, Exchanges etc.

Well said mate and thanks for pointing out the major idea in it, talking about cryptocurrency is just as bringing in all manner of shitcoins but bitcoin cannot denied the fact that it's a crypto, but in cryptocurrency, it is a better idea to be specific on bitcoin, CBDC is just similar to cryptocurrencies maybe in two ways, no privacy as you've said and then its centralized, but a conscious bitcoiner will understand how to engage with using bitcoin to give this privacy at maximum by operating a full node on the blockchain.

If CBDCs become popular, it doesn't mean that fiat will be immediately abandoned or that using CBDCs would become mandatory. So, basically, people would still be able to buy BTC in the ways they do it now, when CBDCs exist only in a few countries and are optional. CBDC can be traceable if it's the way it is designed, but it will still trace the transactions that were actually made with it. If a person doesn't use CBDC, this person's privacy won't be violated more than it currently is. Unless, of course, you're implying that decentralized cryptos would become outlawed or buying them would only be allowed if a person uses a CBDC for that. But there are, IMO, unlikely scenarios.

With CBDCs, transactions are monitored for their movements, but I don't think they could be completely monitored for the reasons of the transactions. A certain amount of CBDC moving from one wallet to another may be known by the government but I doubt if they fully know whether it was for a kilo of potato or for a bag of corn or for a haircut or for a Bitcoin. There's probably still a number of ways to somehow circumvent the monitoring capabilities of CBDC issuers.

Yes, a silly one because CBDC will also be in control of the bank. So your last statement answers it literally.
If you are buying Bitcoin using plastic cards owned by banks before then there's no necessity to change it. You will just confuse yourself on a deal using the new digital currency but if it is the banks who offer the option then why not, maybe you can learn it the easy way and will get used to that kind of path to purchasing Bitcoin now and your future transactions.
P2P is the answer if you want to avoid that.

You're laughing because there's no control in Russia or China, people basically do what they want there, right? How come people can protest in the US, but if they do the same in Russia they get beaten to a pulp and put in jail? Maybe read about old ladies who were arrested by walking around with sheets of paper saying "no to war", or about a guy who got taken to jail for wearing yellow and blue shoes because you apparently cannot wear certain colors in Russia.

I don't have to visit Russia to know how they deal with things. I've lived in a number former socialist states like East Germany, Poland and Slovakia. I've also visited Lithuania and Russia is one of the last places I'd go to, especially now.

You just have to read some headlines about Bitcoin in Russia in the last 10 years to know they haven't got a clue. They were ok with it at first, then wanted to ban it, then allowed it to be exchanged but not if it's used as a payment for goods and services, then they wanted to launch their own cbdc, then they wanted to ban mining, then again wanted to ban bitcoin, then when the sanctions struck them they wanted to allow it to be exchanged for resources instead of the dollar, then banned it again because Russians were dumping the ruble and now they actually are planning to unban it again...
The US legislators have some bad ideas, especially Biden who IMO is dumb and does what his advisors tell him to do, but they're still on another level compared to Putin and his goons.

Also, in the US you don't often see tanks protecting banks who suddenly got insolvent and are refusing to give people what they owe them.
It's enough to say that China is not a democracy. It poses as one but it's pretty much the same democracy that people in Ukraine have under Russian occupation.

There wouldn't be any way to purchase BTC anonymously if you're using CBDC's. Theoretically if you purchase the coins from a 3rd party, it wouldn't be within the purview of the government to monitor the contents of the transaction if you disallowed them to (mark a transaction as being for related to something else other than crypto, assuming it would be legal).

Other than this, your only choice to purchase crypto anonymously is through tangible asset trades or go through an intermediary and pay off the fees entailed.

I am not entirely sure that they are working towards something that would make sure that people are not investing into bitcoin without being watched. So, if you are going to use CBDC then you are accepting that government will be able to survive you and you are going to be showing them what you are spending the money on.

However, there is a good case that exchanges would be a good saver on that case because you would be putting the money in the exchange and they are not going to know what you are doing inside until they ask for it. They could still get it if they request it from the exchange but not going to ask it for every single person and that’s why you would be fine.

i was talking about the american media portayal of russia/china where american media pretend that for instance chaina has a one wallet currency where everyone is forced to transacti electronically through a government wallet that KYC everything and governemtns watch every transaction


i was corecting the narrative of that

i do laugh that you went full sideways and instead wanted to talk about protests.. (has nothing to do with curreny)

oh and if you dont think americans get arrested or beated in US protests.. maybe do yourself a favour.. an stop watching fox news. and instead watch other media stations that show ive coverage of american police abuse of force

point being all countries currency control is about the same.. american and china..

us government and chinese government dont have millions of employees watching billions of transactions ofall currencies. where they are all ready to sign warrants to arrest anyone
it doesnt work like that

maybe instead of thinking because you watch crap media of fox news it means you dont have to go to other countries to learn their cultures.. but you will find out in real life. that real life experience and actually explore will help expand your mind

want to know the funny about russia
ed snowden fears America power hungry control of information.. so guess what country he found as sanctuary

yes russia is invading ukraine at the moment and that needs to stop. but not so long ago america was invading the entire middle east

oh and if you next wanna do the fox news game of talking about chinese detention camps as the next sideward shuffle.. guess what america detains more mexicans

im british and our culture is closely aligned to US. but even i can admit to the crap british empire done

..
anyway most coutries including russia and chinese CBDC are not where the government watches ever transaction

its again like todays digital fiat delegated down to the merchant/commercial banks to monitor and process their customers and only report the suspicious stuff to government.

excuse me?
when the 2007 crisis began. american banks forclosed on peoples loans meaning they got to steal peoples homes. they employed US polce/sherrifs officers to door knock and enforce those forclosures and remove people from their homes

also do you not even remember the "defund the police" because instead of the police using normal cars as patrol vehicles. they were buying or receiving military armoured vehicles
do i even need to waste 30 seconds on a simple google image search of "military vehicle us protest"! or is that something you might be able to achieve

you do know that most people are using bitcoin to escape the UK/EURO/US banking system..

heres the game at play
if american media can pretend other countries are far worse.. people dont complain about the issues of the american system

i truly dare you to just go to your local vacation currency exchange place and ask for rubbles or yuan.
i guarantee you that you are not going to have to register your life history and social security details to sign up to some russian/chinese government wallet

so realise unlike the fox news version of events.. the "controls" of russian/chinese currency are not like the stories you have been told of 100% oversight and government surveillance

If you are using a credit or debit card then that is a different story anymore. It's pretty possible for them to know if where did you spent your money but the guy above is only talking about CBDC and there are many ways to get a CBDC without using cards, banks and other similar methods.

What I know is that CBDC uses a blockchain, so they work the same as crypto where it's possible for a transaction to be traced. They are more transparent in fact compared to crypto. Better if we check their T.O.S first if buying a crypto using a CBDC is allowed or not, if we are doubting about it. There are still many ways to obtain a btc. It doesn't necessarily need to have a CBDC first.

We don't know exactly how they will work, as it isn't official yet. CBDC is going to work similarly to commercially issued money, but it will be controlled by the government instead of private corporations. This means that, while surveilled, the government can't know precisely the exchange that takes place on each of your transactions unless you or your fellow taker is being forced to report it.

For example, exchanging bitcoin for fiat in a DEX is possible with the current banking and corporate system in some countries, without letting them know what you trade.

I can imagine CEX transactions getting banned in the future with CBDCs, or perhaps subtracting points from your social credit score. ;)

Bitcoin = terrorist risk/Putin's reserve currency ;D

But I guess it will be possible to do OTC trades... you'll just have to declare you're sending money to a friend or something.

Buying Bitcoin CBDC, This is something that needs to be monitored and kept confidential. I doubt CBDC will allow you to use it and not monitor your transactions. If you can somehow transfer coins out of their control, then CBDC will be of no use to you. No private keys and access to your wallet.

This is what I believe will happen, but then again if enough people believe the same about CBDC, Bitcoin could be stronger than ever. The current system, as it is today, will not help you once it is known publicly that your assets are being monitored as well as all parties involved in each transaction.

We should never live in fear of our government controlling every aspect of our lives. You don't have to agree with everything your government does, but you should know that the option to repair or change your government is open to you. Everyone is entitled to his own opinion. If this plan works, then we will all be happy.

The bullshit FUD that "bitcoin is only used by criminals" hasn't worked in the past decade and changing details about this FUD is not going to make it work either. Besides, the countries that wanted to ban bitcoin exchanges (ie. CEX) have already done it. There is no reason to believe anything is going to change specially in places where things are already regulated.

CBDC is indeed a digital currency issued by the central bank of a country, but CBDC can still be regulated and monitored by a country like ordinary fiat money. So it is very safe if you want to buy Bitcoin on an exchange that is widely available such as P2P or other crypto exchanges and you don't need to hesitate about this.

CBDC Get direct control over people's interactions with the government.At the moment most countries have not declared cryptocurrency acceptance status as well as taxation on cryptocurrency is very high. The term is not going to replace existing fiat payment systems and you can continue using them to buy bitcoin.

What do you mean by buying BTC privately? Is this even possible?
99% of the places where you could buy BTC online require ID verification.
Bank transactions aren't private. Even BTC transactions aren't private(unless you are using a good BTC mixer).
CBDCs are still far away from mass adoption for everyday use, but I'm sure that using a CBDC will be pretty much the same as using electronic fiat money that you have in your online bank account, Revolut account or Paypal account. I don't think that there's going to be a problem with buying BTC/crypto by using CBDCs(unless the governments/central banks ban such CBDC>crypto transactions).

I wonder would this be a pathway for the governments to use it to get a lot of bitcoin as well? I mean think about it this way, if you want to get CBDC that would be a fiat pegged thing just like usdt or busd, but at the same time you are going to have to pay with something to get them, and what if they would only accept bitcoin?

In that case, governments would own so much bitcoin if we use it, look at the current stablecoin market, if we trusted companies and bought stablecoins that much, how do we know we won't spend 100+ billion dollars worth of bitcoin to get CBDC? If that happens then governments will own so much bitcoin and that's a danger to us all.

Talkin about CBDC, that's something without any real difference from traditional money, they just started these projects because they see bitcoin as a competitor for themselves while in the end, these two are not the same and the system behind CBDC is actually centralized and needs the bank and the third party for any transactions, technically for CBDCs, doing the p2p transactions is impossible and that's something you can find when you are dealing with bitcoin, buy having a p2p transaction.

we can't tell for sure if people will use their btc to buy CBDCs. why not use their fiat instead? because as of now, most btc holders are still treating btc as a good investment, where they can earn their profits once btc market starts to recover. so i don't think people will exchange their btc with stablecoin. but ok, there's a possibility that the government will increase their btc holdings. but i don't think it will be the reason for the btc's existence to be in danger.

In the end, people will buy BTC anyway, CBDC or not. In addition, I see the p2p market growing in this situation, as people will prefer to pay more for more security

If this is how CBDC works then I don't think anyone will use CBDC, nobody will do it to exchange BTC for CBDC, which sounds ridiculous. CBDC is a digital version of fiat, it will be used like fiat today and it will be very convenient for us if CBDC is used on centralized exchanges, this will help us buy and selling BTC more convenient. But using CBDC will make our privacy more limited as all our data will be transmitted directly to the government data center.

If the government intends to hold BTC then right now they can also take fiat money to buy bitcoins at any time.

well CBDCs are already being used on a moderately large scale! The Chinese one for example surpassed $15 billion volume last I checked and it is accepted by millions of shops inside China.
As for buying bitcoin, there is not much difference between using a CBDC or your bank account (wire transfer, credit cards, etc.) to buy bitcoin.

That's how a lot of investors in countries that don't yet accept bitcoin use it. As I have seen, there has been a significant number of cryptocurrency buy and sell orders that are p2p, but the sender did not mention Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency related content in the transfer text. This way the bank knows we're using the money but they don't know what to use it for, which has worked pretty well so far. And with CBDC too, the government will not be able to know when we buy bitcoin, from whom, very difficult to detect.

You can send a CBDC transaction to the seller and he will send bitcoin to the address you chose to receive it. Authorities will know about the CBDC transaction, but they won't know about the btc transaction and won't know one is related to another. Thinking this way we can see privacy is preserved on the same level we have right now dealing with fiat in order to acquire or sell btc.

I know CBDC has been launched and used in a lot of countries, not only China but in Nigeria, an African country has also used its own CBDC. But @FanEagle's mention that the government uses CBDC to collect bitcoin is incorrect because it doesn't work that way. Using a bank account or CBDC to buy bitcoins or goods doesn't make too much difference, if they want to collect bitcoins that way then they just need to print more money and buy bitcoins the way we do our daily transactions without relying on CBDC.

I believe that we should stop giving this thing called CBDC a pro by even talking about it like it will make much different than what is already obtainable in the traditional banking system. Even in locations like mine where the government of the day has stopped banking transactions directly from banks crypto traders have been buying through P2P and the same will be even if they (the government) were able to make everyone transact with the CBDC which is really don't seems to be patronized even in some countries that have launched it already.

CBDC is not to be disregarded for any reason. They are government backed and are even more powerful than cryptocurrency. They are powerful because they are widely adopted, they are legal tenders and also national reserve currency. Because we are crypto educated and know how to maneuver our ways does not mean everyone else outside there knows how to handle these situations.
There are people we recieve their salary in fiat and if CBDC is fully inplace, they Will start receiving salary in CBDC. What of people who pay import and export duties in airports and sea ports. The use of fiat is wide and so CBDC will be. It will not make sense for we to ignore CBDC because it is a rising technology birthed by cryptocurrency.